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Old 02-12-2014, 01:14 PM   #61
kbmb
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what about those with 4 and 6 tuner roamios?

are they getting the problems
Yes both.

-Kevin
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Old 02-12-2014, 01:19 PM   #62
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what about those with 4 and 6 tuner roamios?

are they getting the problems
Yep. This was a feature I'd love to have had with my 2 tuner Premier, so naturally they finally get around to implementing it now that I have six tuners, and they screw it up.
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:03 PM   #63
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You're wrong. No easy way to break it to you, you're just wrong. And don't bother to reply, because that'll be wrong too. Better to quit now, and save those unused CAPS and commas for a rainy day.

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Yep. This was a feature I'd love to have had with my 2 tuner Premier, so naturally they finally get around to implementing it now that I have six tuners, and they screw it up.
QFT.
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:14 PM   #64
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I do not agree that It simply uses the existing tuners more efficiently.
Maybe for you, but because I record a LOT of network shows on the same channel that need padding, it is *essentially* giving me more tuners, since those network shows that need padding are my highest priority shows (since they don't repeat during the week like cable shows).

Maybe you're just nitpicking words, that's fine.. Again, I didn't say that it literally gave you more tuners, but this feature does (and would do it _well_ without the glitch) allow me to record more shows "at once" (I am including the overlap due to necessary padding) on the same hardware.
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:18 PM   #65
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Yep. This was a feature I'd love to have had with my 2 tuner Premier, so naturally they finally get around to implementing it now that I have six tuners, and they screw it up.
Yeah, you said it better than I did. I bought my OLED S3 (dead) and Tivo HD during the lifetime transfer periods (I should have waited and got two Tivo HDs instead, since it would've been way cheaper).. got my P4 when the analogs were finally shut off around a year ago.. Then got my Roamio "for fun" within the past few months.

I have way less need for more tuners nowadays (though I do keep intending to sell the P4 and I really should do it), so it's ironic that they add it now! But I do still see conflicts once in a RARE RARE while. So it may still be useful to me. (I have basically moved almost all SPs to the Roamio in preparation to selling the P4.. just need to actually download the shows off & do the ebay or whatever thing some eon.)
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:56 PM   #66
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anyone out there know of any non tivo boxes that can run tivo guide service or any hd tivos that are no longer supported even eol'd so they did not get that update?

and i have plenty of caps and commas to waste.

and when i run out of caps and commas i will get a new keyboard witch i have to do anyways since i have some sticky keys that dont register..

one thing i am going to be saving is money now because since all the boxes seem to have the bug i will not upgrade to roamio.

though i like the external power supply of the roamio base model since it is dc 12 volts thereby making it possible to run the dvr from a car battery that's another post subject
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Old 02-12-2014, 10:50 PM   #67
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mattack,

Maybe we can agree on this - it removes one reason for needing additional tuners, but it doesn't eliminate it. I remember one year (maybe 2004?) where I needed all three of my single tuner TiVos and 2 VCRs to record the 8-9PM Friday time slot.

ejonesss,

No Series 3 (or earlier) TiVo will ever get this feature, so knock yourself out.



As far as the problems with this go, the video "glitch" is a minor annoyance. IMHO, the scheduler problems are the true killer.
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Old 02-12-2014, 11:23 PM   #68
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what about manual recordings? if i set 2 overlapping manual recordings will the same glitch happen?

i know the scheduler problems shouldnt happen since you are making them manual and it is impossible for the box to know since you are not queuing them from the listings.

but i am not sure if manual recordings would solve the corruption of the stream since the box copies the data
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Old 02-13-2014, 12:01 AM   #69
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I doubt using manual recordings would change anything. Overlapping recordings on the same channel should be treated the same way regardless of how they are created. Of course, there is no way of knowing for sure w/o trying.

"corruption of the stream"? Engage in hyperbole much? Looking at an affected recording in VideoRedo, the glitch lasts for 21 frames or @2/3 of a second.
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Old 02-13-2014, 12:23 AM   #70
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lpwcomp that is what i am talking the loss of data.

i guess i could if there is going to be a marathon just record as 1 long 16 hour manual stream


note to tivo: if you are not going to revoke the patch or give us back our tuner then for the love of god do the copying and splicing in the background so it does not cause the dropped frames
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Old 02-13-2014, 10:46 AM   #71
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...
As far as the problems with this go, the video "glitch" is a minor annoyance. IMHO, the scheduler problems are the true killer.
Exactly. This effectively forced me to remove a bunch of paddings that I would like to have.
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Old 02-13-2014, 10:50 AM   #72
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Exactly. This effectively forced me to remove a bunch of paddings that I would like to have.
Same here.....we no longer pad any shows until this is fixed. We've missed a couple shows in the past few weeks because of this issue.

I hate missing that last punchline that networks love to have go over the time....but it's better than missing the whole show. At least we have the Xfinity VOD and can catch up, but it's painful with commercials

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Old 02-13-2014, 04:16 PM   #73
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Same here.....we no longer pad any shows until this is fixed. We've missed a couple shows in the past few weeks because of this issue.

I hate missing that last punchline that networks love to have go over the time....but it's better than missing the whole show. At least we have the Xfinity VOD and can catch up, but it's painful with commercials

-Kevin
I've actually never seen the scheduler problem with a minute or 2 of overlap. I only saw it when I had overlap that included the entire second show. Note here that I am not saying that it doesn't happen, just that I have not personally experienced it.

Once again I say fix it or pull it. Trying to implement some mechanism for a user to disable it, i.e. "kludge the kludge" is just silly, especially since it is unlikely to work as those requesting it would like.
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Old 02-13-2014, 04:42 PM   #74
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I've actually never seen the scheduler problem with a minute or 2 of overlap. I only saw it when I had overlap that included the entire second show. Note here that I am not saying that it doesn't happen, just that I have not personally experienced it.

Once again I say fix it or pull it. Trying to implement some mechanism for a user to disable it, i.e. "kludge the kludge" is just silly, especially since it is unlikely to work as those requesting it would like.
That's what makes it frustrating.....with a short 2 minute overlap you never know you are missing a show until it's too late. I might record 3 shows in a row back to back and it will miss the second only.

I went probably all of Dec and most of Jan without it happening, then it happened twice on back to back nights.

-Kevin
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Old 02-13-2014, 05:47 PM   #75
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@kbmb that's the reason that the feature should be removed and the boxes go back to using both streams of the cable m card.

for the conflicts if they are on the channel being recorded you can just pad one of the other shows longer to get that show.

tivo folks you may want to reprimand the software developer employee who snuck that feature in without getting approval or extensive testing
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Old 03-07-2014, 02:47 AM   #76
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Angry

I've been experiencing a similar problem this week, but what I discovered is that it actually did record the second overlapping show, but the MPEG navigation data is corrupted.

If you just let the program play, even though it only shows 1 minute of recording on the display, it will actually keep playing after that (but only after looping back to the beginning once). If you fast forward or rewind, it resets back to the beginning of the recording. While playing the show in this fashion, the playback progress bar is stuck at 0 minutes.

For me, it's been doing this with the Daily Show and Colbert Report where the recording overlaps by 1 minute. The Colbert Report for the last few days has displayed as only having one recorded minute (green filled area) in the play bar, but the side summary info shows 31 minutes, and it will play as described above.
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Old 03-07-2014, 01:20 PM   #77
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I've been experiencing a similar problem this week, but what I discovered is that it actually did record the second overlapping show, but the MPEG navigation data is corrupted.

If you just let the program play, even though it only shows 1 minute of recording on the display, it will actually keep playing after that (but only after looping back to the beginning once). If you fast forward or rewind, it resets back to the beginning of the recording. While playing the show in this fashion, the playback progress bar is stuck at 0 minutes.

For me, it's been doing this with the Daily Show and Colbert Report where the recording overlaps by 1 minute. The Colbert Report for the last few days has displayed as only having one recorded minute (green filled area) in the play bar, but the side summary info shows 31 minutes, and it will play as described above.
Your Daily Show is probably OK, but your Colbert Report has a signal problem. Some transport stream timing data (Program Clock Reference?) is missing or corrupted or not incrementing properly. TiVo uses that data for some trick play and other purposes. If it's garbled for the whole recording, the TiVo may even conclude that no time elapsed and therefore no video data was captured, and it will then discard the recording even though actually everything is there but the timing data. I have a local OTA station that has had that problem occasionally. The fact that you have one good minute of a different show at the beginning of your recording keeps the whole thing from being discarded when it ends.
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Old 03-07-2014, 06:00 PM   #78
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Your Daily Show is probably OK, but your Colbert Report has a signal problem. Some transport stream timing data (Program Clock Reference?) is missing or corrupted or not incrementing properly. TiVo uses that data for some trick play and other purposes. If it's garbled for the whole recording, the TiVo may even conclude that no time elapsed and therefore no video data was captured, and it will then discard the recording even though actually everything is there but the timing data. I have a local OTA station that has had that problem occasionally. The fact that you have one good minute of a different show at the beginning of your recording keeps the whole thing from being discarded when it ends.
Correct, the Daily Show recording is always fine. I'm not sure if it uses streams like the old DVD MPEG streams, but those had separate navigation data sub streams that told you how far ahead to jump for x2, x4, etc. If those were corrupted, that would probably result in what I'm seeing.
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Old 03-10-2014, 06:35 AM   #79
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Does 1 or 2 min. padding cause the glitch as well

Hi there,

Can someone confirm whetther a 1 or 2 minute "padding" on a Roamio Plus/Pro will cause the glitch to occur.

I am looking to replace my Oled S3 and have VZ FIOS..... I have to pad almost every season pass in order to get the last min. of the program I am recording/watching, and many recorded shows are on the came channel back to back (Discovery, SciFi, etc.).

Thank you very much!

Gman
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Old 03-10-2014, 06:48 AM   #80
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Hi there,

Can someone confirm whetther a 1 or 2 minute "padding" on a Roamio Plus/Pro will cause the glitch to occur.

I am looking to replace my Oled S3 and have VZ FIOS..... I have to pad almost every season pass in order to get the last min. of the program I am recording/watching, and many recorded shows are on the came channel back to back (Discovery, SciFi, etc.).

Thank you very much!

Gman
Generally, yes it will occur on back to back recordings on the same channel.

-Kevin
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Old 03-10-2014, 12:42 PM   #81
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Hi there,

Can someone confirm whetther a 1 or 2 minute "padding" on a Roamio Plus/Pro will cause the glitch to occur.

I am looking to replace my Oled S3 and have VZ FIOS..... I have to pad almost every season pass in order to get the last min. of the program I am recording/watching, and many recorded shows are on the came channel back to back (Discovery, SciFi, etc.).

Thank you very much!

Gman
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Generally, yes it will occur on back to back recordings on the same channel.

-Kevin
Correct (in my experience). Note, however, that the glitch is relatively minor (only affecting 2 or 3 seconds of the recording); not everyone on this thread reports seeing it; and it will probably (one hopes) be rectified soon in a firmware update.

In no way should you let this issue deter you from your purchase if you want to upgrade. And since it's firmware-related, you are just as likely to encounter it on a Premiere as a Roamio.
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Old 03-10-2014, 03:57 PM   #82
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thank you
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Old 03-11-2014, 06:41 AM   #83
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I had several recordings scheduled with start/end set to 1 minute extra at either end. Two of these (at least) were on the same channel (BBC America, Doctor Who specials), and I noticed both recordings have a brief glitch with video pausing and pixellating at just about exactly the 1 minute mark where the Roamio would have been cranking up (or finishing, depending on how you look at it) the next show on the same channel.

Is this merely a coincidence, or have others seen the same thing with overlapping recordings on the same channel?

I guess I should experiment with explicitly recording some stuff that will overlap and see if it happens every time.
I have the exact same issue with back to back shows that record on same channel. I set my shows to record for one extra minute otherwise the recording stops before the end of the show. The other issue I have noticed is the second recording on same channel is clipped at the beginning and then within a minute you see pixellation and blocking that lasts for a few seconds. This anomaly usually happens twice.
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Old 03-11-2014, 07:57 PM   #84
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Missed yet another show last night because of this padding issue "No longer in guide"

Really not pleased that we have to wait until March/April to have a fix.

Guess I have no choice but to hit every season pass and don't pad it until the fix comes out.

-Kevin
Not going to help on Sunday night on CBS. I have to record the second program that's back to back on same channel with overlap on my Premiere XL. Right now I cannot recommend a Roamio to anyone because of this problem.
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:12 PM   #85
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Missed yet another show last night because of this padding issue "No longer in guide"

Really not pleased that we have to wait until March/April to have a fix.

Guess I have no choice but to hit every season pass and don't pad it until the fix comes out.

-Kevin
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Not going to help on Sunday night on CBS. I have to record the second program that's back to back on same channel with overlap on my Premiere XL. Right now I cannot recommend a Roamio to anyone because of this problem.
While I consider this "solution" to be far from satisfactory, how does it "not help"? If you don't pad, they won't overlap.
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:21 PM   #86
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While I consider this "solution" to be far from satisfactory, how does it "not help"? If you don't pad, they won't overlap.
You usually have to pad on CBS on Sunday nights due to sports. Right now I record 60 Minutes on my Premiere XL and TAR on the Roamio Pro, with a 90 minute pad on the end of the show on both shows.
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Old 03-11-2014, 08:55 PM   #87
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You usually have to pad on CBS on Sunday nights due to sports. Right now I record 60 Minutes on my Premiere XL and TAR on the Roamio Pro, with a 90 minute pad on the end of the show on both shows.
That just means that you can't utilize the "solution", not that it wouldn't help.

Right now, I'm sort of torn. The video glitch, while annoying, is tolerable, and without this feature, I would need at least 7 HD tuners to have even minor padding for the Sunday night shows that don't repeat. When you include the stuff that does repeat but I would prefer to get the first showing of, it goes to 9. I have 8 - a THD, a Premiere, and a Roamio Basic.

I just hope that they at least get the scheduler problem fixed before NFL season.
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Old 03-11-2014, 10:15 PM   #88
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You usually have to pad on CBS on Sunday nights due to sports. Right now I record 60 Minutes on my Premiere XL and TAR on the Roamio Pro, with a 90 minute pad on the end of the show on both shows.
Record them both on the Roamio and only pad TAR
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Old 03-11-2014, 11:56 PM   #89
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I had two shows missed due to the 'No Longer in Guide' error this past week. All my season passes are padded by 2 minutes on each end. In both instances the shows were the 2nd of back to back records on FOX (though channel doesn't matter, I've had it happen on multiple channels int he past). On 3/3 'The Following' failed to record - 'Almost Human' recorded fine before it. Tonight 3/11, 'Brooklyn 99' failed to record while 'New Girl' recorded fine before it.
Cannot wait for the spring update to turn off this feature until it actually works properly.
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Old 03-12-2014, 04:33 AM   #90
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Record them both on the Roamio and only pad TAR
How about Tivo fixing their DVRs to work properly.
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