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Old 09-01-2013, 04:24 PM   #1
profet
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Roamio MoCa bridge Encryption key won't work

I'm having a problem setting up my Roamio Pro and Mini using MoCa encryption key.

My setup:
Roamio connected via ethernet to my network.
Roamio connected via coax to my central coax splitter (feeds the rest of the house including the cable modem)
Mini connected via coax to my central coax splitter.

This setup works fine and everything is dandy when I setup my Roamio as a MoCa bridge with no encryption.

If I try to setup encryption on the Roamio everything appears to work, but my Mini won't connect with the key, but will still connect without a key.

I can go and look at the Roamio settings again and it looks like the key was never saved. This is repeatable.

Am I doing this wrong? Anyone else have this problem?
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Old 09-01-2013, 05:40 PM   #2
Scooby Doo
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Don't use Moca encryption. If you have a Moca filter installed at your cable entry, which you should have anyway to prevent interference, then your Moca network cannot be accessed from outside your home.
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Old 09-01-2013, 05:44 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooby Doo View Post
Don't use Moca encryption. If you have a Moca filter installed at your cable entry, which you should have anyway to prevent interference, then your Moca network cannot be accessed from outside your home.
I started to activate MoCA encryption but figured only people who could access it are people inside my home. They could easily plug into an ethernet outlet to get internet access.
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Old 09-01-2013, 06:08 PM   #4
profet
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A POE filter is great... But an encryption key is still better.

I'm trying to figure out if this is a firmware bug affecting all TiVos or simply something specific to my roamio.

I honestly don't know if I trust the POE filter.
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Old 09-01-2013, 08:25 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by profet View Post
I'm having a problem setting up my Roamio Pro and Mini using MoCa encryption key.

My setup:
Roamio connected via ethernet to my network.
Roamio connected via coax to my central coax splitter (feeds the rest of the house including the cable modem)
Mini connected via coax to my central coax splitter.

This setup works fine and everything is dandy when I setup my Roamio as a MoCa bridge with no encryption.

If I try to setup encryption on the Roamio everything appears to work, but my Mini won't connect with the key, but will still connect without a key.

I can go and look at the Roamio settings again and it looks like the key was never saved. This is repeatable.

Am I doing this wrong? Anyone else have this problem?
This is only a guess but did you re-boot the Roamio after enabling the encryption?

It is possible that even when you enable it, it doesn't actually start until the next boot.
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Old 09-02-2013, 10:14 AM   #6
profet
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seriously no one else has this issue?

I just want to see if its a problem with my DVR or with tivo firmware.
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Old 09-02-2013, 12:57 PM   #7
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I don't think anyone else uses the encryption.

When I had my Elites and Minis on MoCA I never touched the encryption since I'm on FiOS. But even if I was on Comast, I would be using a POE filter and I still would not use encryption.
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Old 09-02-2013, 03:37 PM   #8
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Same here, no encryption just a POE filter. The POE filter is under my house where the only access is inside the house through a closet, so there is no chance anyone is tapping into my network.
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Old 09-02-2013, 03:45 PM   #9
profet
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I just don't trust the filter. For instance, is the filter directional? If so, which way should it be installed? My coax comes into my house and directly into an amplifier. Should it be installed before or after the amp?

There are just too many questions that aren't easily answered for my tastes. I'd hate to have my network bleeding outside my house.
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Old 09-02-2013, 03:48 PM   #10
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I'm using MoCA encryption on my Roamio Pro, no problem. I had an existing MoCA network so I had to enter the key on my Roamio to get it to connect. The TiVo checks the MoCA connection to make sure it can connect when you change the key. I suggest you turn off the Mini before you try to change the key on the TiVo.

Jeff
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Old 09-02-2013, 04:02 PM   #11
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Quote:
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I'm using MoCA encryption on my Roamio Pro, no problem. I had an existing MoCA network so I had to enter the key on my Roamio to get it to connect. The TiVo checks the MoCA connection to make sure it can connect when you change the key. I suggest you turn off the Mini before you try to change the key on the TiVo.

Jeff
Again, I'm talking about using the encryption with the roamio acting as a bridge.

I can get the encryption key to save when I go through the standard mica setup.

I can NOT get the encryption key to save when going through the moca bridge setup.

Can someone please confirm/deny whether this is happening on their box?

Thank you.
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Old 09-02-2013, 04:23 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by profet View Post
I just don't trust the filter. For instance, is the filter directional? If so, which way should it be installed? My coax comes into my house and directly into an amplifier. Should it be installed before or after the amp?

There are just too many questions that aren't easily answered for my tastes. I'd hate to have my network bleeding outside my house.
A POE filter is a simple low pass filter like the ones cable companies used for decades. It is not directional, it simply prevents all frequencies in a certain range from passing through it. MoCa operates on specific frequencies above the normal frequencies used for cable, so a MoCa POE filter simply blocks all frequencies above the range used for normal cable. It's just as likely to keep your neighbor's MoCa signal out of your line as it is to keep your MoCa signal in.

That being said encryption should still work on the TiVo. If it's not then it's a bug. However if you have a POE filter in place it's not a bug you really need to worry about.
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Old 09-02-2013, 04:33 PM   #13
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Here's a simple test that may build your "trust" in the POE filter. Try inserting it into your coax somewhere between the Roamio and the Mini and see if your network still works
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Old 09-13-2013, 06:59 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by profet View Post
Again, I'm talking about using the encryption with the roamio acting as a bridge.

I can get the encryption key to save when I go through the standard mica setup.

I can NOT get the encryption key to save when going through the moca bridge setup.

Can someone please confirm/deny whether this is happening on their box?

Thank you.
I can confirm this behavior. I had the Roamio temporarily connected to my Premier4 as a MoCA client, with a key. All good, but swapping roles doesn't work. Key or no key.
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Old 09-13-2013, 08:06 PM   #15
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seriously no one else has this issue?

I just want to see if its a problem with my DVR or with tivo firmware.
I have the issue with a roamio pro + mini. Set to no encryption and haven't looked back yet.
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Old 09-19-2013, 06:13 AM   #16
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I can confirm that this is happening on my Roamio Pro and Mini... A POE filter is great but the filter plus an encryption key is much better. Spoke with TiVo support for a long time (4 times on hold) and I kept being told the filter is enough. Every time I asked about why the encryption key part doesn't work I got put on hold again. The TiVo tech said he had never heard of this before.... BTW in my setup the Roamio pro is the device creating the moca network.
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Old 09-19-2013, 07:14 AM   #17
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I too tried setting an encryption key when creating the MOCA network on my Pro. I don't think that it is keeping the key. My Mini is only connected by MOCA and I was never prompted for the encryption key.
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Old 09-19-2013, 10:31 AM   #18
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You don't have a key on any RJ45 jack connection, if you need the extra protection just use MAC filtering on your router.
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Old 09-19-2013, 12:16 PM   #19
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You don't have a key on any RJ45 jack connection, if you need the extra protection just use MAC filtering on your router.
I also don't have the Cat5E cables in my house running into my neighbor's houses. I put a filter on my line, but this is a bug plain and simple. Hopefully TiVo fixes it. Not everybody can put a filter on the line that enters their home and MAC filtering would make it a pain to add other devices later.

My Roamio and Mini are doing the same thing. Connects just fine without a key, but won't connect with a key. The Roamio seems to lose the key when I go back in to check the settings later and it says no key has been set up.
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Old 09-19-2013, 01:13 PM   #20
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You don't have a key on any RJ45 jack connection, if you need the extra protection just use MAC filtering on your router.
I also don't have RJ45 running out of my house and into my neighbors house.

Do you run wifi without an encryption key? That is similar issue not ethernet.
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Old 09-19-2013, 02:49 PM   #21
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Thanks for the report. We're working on this one.

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Old 10-03-2013, 07:53 PM   #22
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Margret, any update on this? This is one of the things holding me back from upgrading to a Roamio Pro + Mini. My drop has its first split on the outside, so I'd need to put a POE filter outside. I live in an apartment as well, it's out of reach, and I don't have a ladder. I'd need to have my landlord do it. I'm not sure I want to ask him to do that, and would much rather just use MoCa encryption. Or at the very least, if I do put the POE filter outside, I'd still prefer to have encryption to protect me just on the off chance it got removed for whatever reason.
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Old 10-03-2013, 08:21 PM   #23
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Thanks for the report. We're working on this one.

--Margret
I too am having a problem with my roamio not saving the encryption key. Is there any update on this?
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:34 AM   #24
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Comcast in my area sent me a tiny unit to descramble the signal. They are going to start encrypting the signal soon so that my tv will no longer be able to do that work. Will a TiVo unit still work with this new Comcast setup? I was considering getting a TiVo but not sure now with this change.
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Old 10-24-2013, 12:48 PM   #25
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I had the same problem with the same equipment. I "fixed" it by putting the key on the mini first then the Roamio. If I put the key on the Roamio first it appeared the Roamio ignored it since there wasn't any other device with a key on the network. Not a perfect solution but a solution, nevertheless.
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Old 10-24-2013, 01:58 PM   #26
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Comcast in my area sent me a tiny unit to descramble the signal. They are going to start encrypting the signal soon so that my tv will no longer be able to do that work. Will a TiVo unit still work with this new Comcast setup? I was considering getting a TiVo but not sure now with this change.
That's a different subject. This thread is about MoCa networking.

As to your question... yes your TiVo will still work fine. The CableCARD in your TiVo does all the decryption needed for it to work. That little box was for a secondary TV where you may have previously been using analog or clear QAM to tune the channels.
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Old 10-24-2013, 04:50 PM   #27
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I didn't start a new thread true, this one seemed close enough. I have never tried a TiVo but am considering it.

Thx
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Old 10-24-2013, 07:15 PM   #28
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I didn't start a new thread true, this one seemed close enough. I have never tried a TiVo but am considering it.
TiVos are nice. Usually a much better experience then the cable company supplied DVR.
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Old 03-01-2014, 09:51 AM   #29
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I had the same problem with the same equipment. I "fixed" it by putting the key on the mini first then the Roamio. If I put the key on the Roamio first it appeared the Roamio ignored it since there wasn't any other device with a key on the network. Not a perfect solution but a solution, nevertheless.
I had the same problem until I set the key on the Mini first then the Roamio. Thanks for the help.
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Old 03-02-2014, 12:33 AM   #30
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Yea, I have the same problems.. It took a few times setting it, then a restart, etc, etc.. One of the times it finally stuck and the minis wouldn't connect without the key being entered. I left it at that. For all I know, it could have dumped the settings again. Same thing goes for the moca channel settings, took a bunch of fiddling to get it to work.
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