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Old 02-17-2014, 04:03 PM   #1
dswartz
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Roamio plus with FIOS and MoCA?

I'm a tad confused here. Just replaced a series3 (ethernet) with a roamio plus. I have three old nim-100 MoCA bridges elsewhere in the house to get ethernet there - one in the kitchen, one in my stepson's bedroom and one connected to my (non-verizon) router. Everything worked fine, until I tried switching the roamio to MoCA, but it times out and says it can't connect. If I look at MoCA network status, it says 'link down'. Looking at where the verizon guy wired up the coax, I have a 4-way and 2-way splitter. The ONT goes to IN on 2-way. One of the outputs of that goes somewhere (it's hard to tell where). The other goes to IN on the 4-way, and the 4 outputs go wherever they go. The splitters are both rated to 1000mhz, which I've read is okay. I am puzzled as to why that one coax going to the roamio doesn't seem MoCA friendly. I don't see anything in the splitter setup that would just bork the tivo's coax, MoCA-wise. Right around the corner from the roamio is another coax going to the Nim100 connected to the router (well, technically a switch, but...) I had gotten the impression I should just be able to have the roamio join the existing MoCA network, but doesn't seem to be the case. I'm going to try connecting the router's nim100 to the roamio's coax to see if that exonerates that coax run. Any thoughts/ideas would be much appreciated...
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Old 02-17-2014, 04:38 PM   #2
BigJimOutlaw
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There have been some reports that the built-in moca support on Tivo devices (moca 1.1) doesn't play nicely with older moca 1.0 networks (such as NIM100's).

The only options, such as they are, are to use ethernet, use an additional 1.0 adapter for the Tivo's moca connection instead of the integrated moca, or update the moca network to 1.1.
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Old 02-17-2014, 05:02 PM   #3
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Hmm, I hadn't heard that (about the 1.0 vs 1.1). I've not had a chance to try swapping the coax cables yet. I'll post my results. Thanks!
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Old 02-17-2014, 06:06 PM   #4
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I have Fios...you can just plug in the Coax and hook into Moca. I'm a network novice at best, but I got mine (and another house) up an running on Fios Moca.

Make sure you reboot the Tivo...with NO Ethernet plugged in...just Coax. Then run through the Moca network setup. Tivo should hook into the Fios Moca no prob.
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Old 02-17-2014, 06:16 PM   #5
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I tried that. No difference. I'm guessing you don't have nim100 or other moca 1.0 only devices? I think I'll have to shell out for a couple of the $50 moca 1.1 bridges from tivo.com...
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Old 02-17-2014, 09:03 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dswartz View Post
I tried that. No difference. I'm guessing you don't have nim100 or other moca 1.0 only devices? I think I'll have to shell out for a couple of the $50 moca 1.1 bridges from tivo.com...
My Roamio didn't like automatically setting the channel in MoCA, I manually set it (to 16 maybe?) and it worked right away. The FiOS router and Roamio will play nice together, I'd test without the other MoCA devices on at first then add them back in.
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Old 02-18-2014, 07:31 AM   #7
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Just as a double check, how many total devices are you trying to put on the MoCA network. MoCA 1.0 only supports up to 8 devices. Make sure you count the router (if using the FiOS one), any Verizon STB/DVRs, and all of the NIM100s.

Also, note that if you do buy some from Tivo, you can save $10 by buying the 2 pack if you need multiple.
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Old 02-18-2014, 08:44 AM   #8
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hmmm

I don't have the verizon router - I use my own. There are a total of 3 NIM-100 units in the house, so the TiVo would make 4. dianebrat, thanks for the suggestion. I had tried a channel manually, but I don't remember which one. Do you have MoCA 1.0 units at all? I keep hearing that the roamio doesn't like them. My problem is: if this is the issue, I will have to replace all 3 NIM-100 units, which is a little pricy. I might buy just one to see if the roamio sees it. If it does (but not the others), I could spring for 2 more in the 2-pack. I will try various channels tonight and see how that works...
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Old 02-18-2014, 09:28 AM   #9
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I don't have the verizon router - I use my own. There are a total of 3 NIM-100 units in the house, so the TiVo would make 4. dianebrat, thanks for the suggestion. I had tried a channel manually, but I don't remember which one. Do you have MoCA 1.0 units at all? I keep hearing that the roamio doesn't like them. My problem is: if this is the issue, I will have to replace all 3 NIM-100 units, which is a little pricy. I might buy just one to see if the roamio sees it. If it does (but not the others), I could spring for 2 more in the 2-pack. I will try various channels tonight and see how that works...
You know the other option is getting a FiOS router - either from Verizon or on EBay - and just setting it up so that it passes MoCA along the wire. Might be easier and cheaper.
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Old 02-18-2014, 09:40 AM   #10
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I'm not sure what you're getting at. The whole point of this exercise is so I don't have to run a cat5 to the roamio. I can do so (and in fact am), it's just inconvenient. As it is now, the two rooms are on the LAN via coax (nim-100) and the 3rd nim-100 links the coax segments to the LAN. How would a verizon router help me in this scenario? Unless you mean to stick it next to the roamio to provide ethernet? If I was going to do that, I may as well get another nim-100 on ebay or something. Or maybe get one of the actiontec moca units to do this (assuming they play well with 1.0 units like nim-100).

Last edited by dswartz : 02-18-2014 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:11 AM   #11
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NIMs were pretty popular and cheap for a time so it does suck having to consider replacing them. You could alternatively find another NIM100 and connect it to the back of the Roamio rather than replace the entire network. This can be tested by temporarily moving a NIM to the Roamio and see if it connects.

Perhaps try replacing just the primary NIM at the router with an actiontec adapter? Maybe the Tivo will like it better and the NIMs will still work. Shot in the dark.

edit: posted before refreshing to see new post
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:19 AM   #12
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For the moment, it's working with a spare powerline adapter. If I was going to buy exactly one actiontec adapter, I'd be inclined to hang it off the roamio and call it a day. What I may do (to spread out the $$$ pain) is buy one actiontec unit and put it in place of the nim-100 by the router. If the roamio can link with it okay (might need to unplug the other nim-100s to avoid interference?), put it behind the roamio and put the nim-100 back in place, with some confidence that I can later spring for two more AT units and replace the nim100's altogether...
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:48 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dswartz View Post
I'm not sure what you're getting at. The whole point of this exercise is so I don't have to run a cat5 to the roamio. I can do so (and in fact am), it's just inconvenient. As it is now, the two rooms are on the LAN via coax (nim-100) and the 3rd nim-100 links the coax segments to the LAN. How would a verizon router help me in this scenario? Unless you mean to stick it next to the roamio to provide ethernet? If I was going to do that, I may as well get another nim-100 on ebay or something. Or maybe get one of the actiontec moca units to do this (assuming they play well with 1.0 units like nim-100).
Sorry, maybe I'm just confused. I wasn't suggesting using the FiOS router for Ethernet, but for MoCA. If you have the FiOS router in the equation, it automatically sends MoCA over the existing coax. You don't need Cat 5, Cat 6, Ethernet cable or any MoCA adapters at all, just the coax. (You can still use a MoCA to Ethernet adapter anywhere along the coax runs too.)
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Old 02-18-2014, 12:16 PM   #14
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I tried that. No difference. I'm guessing you don't have nim100 or other moca 1.0 only devices? I think I'll have to shell out for a couple of the $50 moca 1.1 bridges from tivo.com...
Another, cheaper option you can try if you don't need any raw rf cable signals throughout your house is to get a couple DirecTV DECA units from ebay, etc and use those as "moca" devices through your home's coax. They are the same as a moca device, but just use a different frequency band to transmit it's signals. They did that because normal moca frequencies are in the same freq range as their IF satellite signals, which means that they are now in the freq band of normal cable signals, so you can't have or use any raw rf cable signals on the same line. If all you have are minis in your other rooms, you can home run your cable signal to the Roamio location and connect it to your main Roamio, then split the rest of your house off and connect the minis and any other ethernet devices (using a switch) with the deca units.

I did this since I already had the existing DirecTV SWiM infrastructure installed for their Genie system. Works quite well actually, even easier than when I initially tried moca using my pro. Nothing I seemed to do worked in that scenario.

Just a thought..........
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Old 02-18-2014, 12:22 PM   #15
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Just went through this - NIM 100 issue

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Originally Posted by dswartz View Post
For the moment, it's working with a spare powerline adapter. If I was going to buy exactly one actiontec adapter, I'd be inclined to hang it off the roamio and call it a day. What I may do (to spread out the $$$ pain) is buy one actiontec unit and put it in place of the nim-100 by the router. If the roamio can link with it okay (might need to unplug the other nim-100s to avoid interference?), put it behind the roamio and put the nim-100 back in place, with some confidence that I can later spring for two more AT units and replace the nim100's altogether...
I just replaced my dead Premier XL, connected via a NIM 100 with a Roamio Plus. I do have FIOS, with a Rev I Actiontec, and could not get it to connect to the MOCA network, although it worked fine with the NIM. Even with the NIM unplugged from power and network, the Roamio would not connect. The Actiontec LAN Coax stats showed the MOCA version as .1 and a VZ set top box as the network controller. I finally took all the MOCA devices off line, rebooted everything and brought them back on line, starting with the router and then the Roamio. It connected right away and the LAN coax stats on the Actiontec now shows version 1.1 and the Roamio as the controller.

In summary, I think I confirmed what others are saying that the Roamio does not play well with NIM 100's. In my case even removing the NIM didn't resolve the legacy issue until everything reset.

I'd go with used Actiontecs off Ebay to use as bridges to replace the NIMs, but if you want to stay with them and add another to your network in place of the Roamio's built in, I'll be putting mine on ebay . (update - just looked...there's one with a current high bid of 99 cents - probably just throw it in the box 'o stuff or give it away)

Last edited by mae : 02-18-2014 at 03:15 PM. Reason: new info
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Old 02-18-2014, 08:53 PM   #16
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Sorry, maybe I'm just confused. I wasn't suggesting using the FiOS router for Ethernet, but for MoCA. If you have the FiOS router in the equation, it automatically sends MoCA over the existing coax. You don't need Cat 5, Cat 6, Ethernet cable or any MoCA adapters at all, just the coax. (You can still use a MoCA to Ethernet adapter anywhere along the coax runs too.)

Agree with Sangs. My suggestion above assumed you were using the Fios Actiontec router. That has Moca already available on it. Sorry for the confusion.
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Old 02-18-2014, 08:59 PM   #17
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no problem

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Agree with Sangs. My suggestion above assumed you were using the Fios Actiontec router. That has Moca already available on it. Sorry for the confusion.
I ordered one of the actiontec moca bridges from tivo.com. I'm going to put it in place of the nim100 next to the router. If gives the roamio network connectivity, I will spring for 2 more and just throw the nim100s on ebay or something...
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Old 02-18-2014, 09:37 PM   #18
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You said FiOS in post 1 and didn't specifically call out that you were not using the standard Verizon supplied Actiontec router they leverage to do the MoCA to ethernet in 90% of all installations, can't blame us for assuming it was in the loop.

Even then the GigE Actiontec is only $79 at Verizon and usually 1/2 that on ebay, I'd lean towards using that as your MoCA ingress since it's so reliable and cheap.
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Old 02-18-2014, 10:45 PM   #19
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Dianebrat, I'm not blaming anyone. That said, I'm not wild about a unit that has all the extra things that need to be tweaked or turned off. Note that my current setup has no smart MoCA unit - just 3 bridges (the nim100's). I can get MoCA 1.1 bridges through tivo.com for about $50 each and they are new, and should be drop-in replacements for the nim100's. All of that said, you haven't said if you have nim100's or not. If you do, and they don't talk to the roamio, then the tivo that has LAN access via a nim100 will not be visible to the roamio, so no show transfers, etc, which obviates the whole point of this exercise.
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Old 02-19-2014, 06:54 AM   #20
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Dianebrat, I'm not blaming anyone. That said, I'm not wild about a unit that has all the extra things that need to be tweaked or turned off.
Are you referring to the FiOS router? Because I'm not sure what you mean about things needing to be tweaked or turned off. It's a pretty simple setup. Coax or Ethernet from the FiOS ONT to the FiOS Router--Coax to Roamio/Mini--Use MoCA on the Roamio/Minis. That's it. No settings need changing from what I recall and no adapters needed anywhere along the line. Not trying to change your mind, just looking for clarification.
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Old 02-24-2014, 09:07 PM   #21
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Sorry for the delay replying - for some reason, I never got an email notification on your reply Anyway, I do NOT use the FIOS router - I run my own, hence the coax lan. Anyway, I think I found the problem - just not sure where to go with it. I got the 1 actiontec moca bridge from tivo.com and it didn't help. It did at least let the roamio connect, but the link kept bouncing with 'moca bandwidth too low' errors. I got suspicious of that particular coax run, so I got a two-way splitter, and ran a 6 foot or so coax from the roamio around the corner to the splitter. The splitter also connected to the actiontec moca bridge. The input on the 2-way went to the coax to the rest of the house. Guess what? Works fine now! Obviously I can't leave it this way - I'd be better off sticking with the powerline adapter. That coax run is bad, or the wall jack is bad or maybe the 5-way splitter in the wall near the FIOS ONT is dropping the signal just enough to hose me? Kinda surprised if so, since there are two nim-100 upstairs that work just fine that are also off the same 5-way splitter. Maybe the roamio is fussier? If so, if I can figure out which cable off the 5-way goes to the roamio, I could try swapping it with a cable that goes to the 2-way, eliminating one hop?
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Old 02-24-2014, 10:08 PM   #22
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Hmm, now I am wondering if the cable jack at the wall is dodgy. I plugged the roamio back into it, intending to swap coax at the 4-way splitter, and... now it works? I wonder if the connector is iffy and this time I got it screwed in just right or something? Very weird indeed... I guess I'll keep an eye on things and see how it goes...
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Old 02-25-2014, 02:38 PM   #23
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I've also had one of the NIM-100 lock up occasionally (power-cycle fixing it of course), so I think I'll spring for 2 more of the ECB2500C bridges and call it a day. Thanks for the advice and suggestions
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Old 07-28-2014, 09:12 PM   #24
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Hi,

I know this is a pretty old thread but I just got my new Roamio Pro

I'm currently running a network with three NIM 100s- one from my source and two to TVs. I had planned to use the built in MOCA on the Romaio, but apparently the two devices don't play nice. I was just hoping to simplify my network.

So here's the question...

Do you think I would see any performance improvements by replacing the 3 NIM100s with two of the new ECB2500C bridges and the built in MOCA on the Roamio?

The performance is generally good with the NIM100s, however they do need to reset every so often. Also my Tivo Stream performance is terrible. I'm not sure if this is related to the Moca or something else.
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Old 07-28-2014, 10:48 PM   #25
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Do you think I would see any performance improvements by replacing the 3 NIM100s with two of the new ECB2500C bridges and the built in MOCA on the Roamio?

The performance is generally good with the NIM100s, however they do need to reset every so often. Also my Tivo Stream performance is terrible. I'm not sure if this is related to the Moca or something else.
A moca 1.0 network (the NIMs) collectively has up to 100 mbps of throughput. The 1.1 standard has up to 175mbps.

You might or might not see a difference with just one device used at a time, but as a mesh network there's more bandwidth to work with across everything sharing that bandwidth, if that makes sense.
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Old 07-29-2014, 09:10 AM   #26
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Thanks much. I think I will probably just get the new bridges. I've been using the NIMs for a long time and it's probably about time.
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