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Old 02-23-2014, 07:20 PM   #1
midas
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Mine arrives Tuesday, a few simple questions

I've ordered a Roamio and 2 Minis that are set to arrive Tuesday. I plan to pickup the cablecard tomorrow. As mentioned in another post, I've been around Tivo since the original 14 hour units, but I've spent the last 12 or 13 years with DirecTV. So I've been out of the loop on the stand-alone models for a long time. Of course, I have a few questions.

1) Setup time? I'm not really concerned about the actual setup. I'm more interested in how long the guide population time is. Does it still take about 48 hours before the guide is populated to the point I can add all my season passes?

2) Moca/Ethernet? Currently I'm in a house and suspect I won't have any problems with a MOCA bridge setup. But in a few months we'll be moving to a large apartment building. Once I move, is there any chance MOCA will still work? I have no clue how the cable signal is split in the building but it obviously won't be a home run to my apartment.

3) Bluetooth keyboard? Do they work? I know I saw a thread about BT KB that required a dongle not working, but I have a BT KB that works with my phone, tablet and TV, no dongle required. Will this work?

4) IR/RF? Does the Roamio/Mini support both at the same time? My DirecTV Genie can handle both at once while the regular DirecTV receivers are exclusive, either IR or RF, but not both.

5) Simultaneous output? Does the Roamio output a full 1080 signal on both HDMI and the Component outputs at the same time?

I'm sure I'll have more questions, but that's all I can think of right now.
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Old 02-23-2014, 07:54 PM   #2
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Just set up a Roamio and mini. Guide data was quick. Once I finished setting it up the guide data was there.

For the mini I activated it online and had problems getting it working until the TiVo website said the mini was active. My advice is activate it on the TiVo site and wait a day to set up the mini.
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Old 02-24-2014, 05:04 AM   #3
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1. The intial setup can take an hour or more due to an immediate software update. Once that's done you can force a few service connections to get a full 2 weeks of guide data. The indexing won't take 2 days. Maybe a couple hours at most. But you can use tivo.com or a program like KMTTG to copy your SP's and Wishlists over very quickly. You can save your SPs and WLs to your computer now while you're waiting for it to arrive.

2. Moca can potentially work fine in an apartment. It's recommended you use a POE filter somewhere to keep your network secure.

3. I don't believe it has BT support built-in. It uses a different RF technology for the remote. The Slide Pro remote is nice, though.

4. Depends what you mean. It'll use RF for the Tivo commands but still output IR for TVs and A/V receivers without any switching on your part.

5. All outputs are active.


Pro-tip... activate everything asap. The Mini and Roamio may not play nicely together until they're both fully activated properly (which by Tivo's own admission can take up to 24 hours). So it might take some time until the Mini will talk to the Roamio.
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Old 02-24-2014, 06:38 AM   #4
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1. The intial setup can take an hour or more due to an immediate software update. Once that's done you can force a few service connections to get a full 2 weeks of guide data. The indexing won't take 2 days. Maybe a couple hours at most. But you can use tivo.com or a program like KMTTG to copy your SP's and Wishlists over very quickly. You can save your SPs and WLs to your computer now while you're waiting for it to arrive.
Unfortunately I can't save my SPs and WLs since I'll be coming from DirecTV. It will all be manual. But I will look into what Tivo.com has to offer. The last time I owned a stand-alone Tivo that wasn't an option.

Quote:
2. Moca can potentially work fine in an apartment. It's recommended you use a POE filter somewhere to keep your network secure.
Yea, real confused about the POE filter idea. I assume it's like a trap valve where stuff can only flow in one direction. But if I put one between the wall socket and the Roamio then I don't see how the Mini could talk to it. I'd need access to where the signal comes in before it's split to the other rooms. I don't think I'll have access to that. Of course, maybe I just don't understand at all.

Quote:
3. I don't believe it has BT support built-in. It uses a different RF technology for the remote. The Slide Pro remote is nice, though.
That's too bad. But if, as you said, I can do all my initial setup on Tivo.com then it's not really an issue.

Quote:
4. Depends what you mean. It'll use RF for the Tivo commands but still output IR for TVs and A/V receivers without any switching on your part.
No, I mean the Tivo itself, not the remote. I'd like the Tivo remote to be setup as RF but still be able to use a Harmony in IR mode.


Quote:
Pro-tip... activate everything asap. The Mini and Roamio may not play nicely together until they're both fully activated properly (which by Tivo's own admission can take up to 24 hours). So it might take some time until the Mini will talk to the Roamio.
Thanks, seems ridiculous to take 24 hours, but as they say, it is what it is.
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:18 AM   #5
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Unfortunately I can't save my SPs and WLs since I'll be coming from DirecTV. It will all be manual. But I will look into what Tivo.com has to offer. The last time I owned a stand-alone Tivo that wasn't an option.
::slaps forehead:: You're right, I forgot about the DirecTV part. Might have to do it all the old fashioned way. I have no experience with the DTivos.

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Yea, real confused about the POE filter idea. I assume it's like a trap valve where stuff can only flow in one direction. But if I put one between the wall socket and the Roamio then I don't see how the Mini could talk to it. I'd need access to where the signal comes in before it's split to the other rooms. I don't think I'll have access to that. Of course, maybe I just don't understand at all.
Sounds like you understand. It should be placed right before the main splitter coming into your apt so the moca signal can travel freely within, but not escape. If you can access this splitter, that is. It's a good idea to have a filter, but not inherently mandatory.

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No, I mean the Tivo itself, not the remote. I'd like the Tivo remote to be setup as RF but still be able to use a Harmony in IR mode.
Oh I see. I don't think the Tivo cares, but maybe someone else can confirm.
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:47 AM   #6
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Keyboard

Maybe you use a Keyboard with a Dongle?

My understanding is the Keyboard dongle that comes with a Wireless Keyboard converts the Bluetooth signal from the Keyboard (or mouse) into HID compliant USB.

Just a thought...

Brad
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:54 AM   #7
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Yea, I'm trying to figure out how to secure the local network if I'm sending my signal out throughout the entire apartment building. Unfortunately I'm not a networking expert. But I wonder if I can setup a second router on a different sub net that only has internet access. I thought my router allowed a guest wireless network, but I can't seem to find that option. It is running DD-WRT, but I haven't updated it in years. But that might be another option.
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:55 AM   #8
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Maybe you use a Keyboard with a Dongle?

My understanding is the Keyboard dongle that comes with a Wireless Keyboard converts the Bluetooth signal from the Keyboard (or mouse) into HID compliant USB.

Just a thought...

Brad
No, there's no dongle on this keyboard.

I thought I had read that keyboards with dongles don't work on the Tivo because it doesn't have the built-in drivers. But I thought I read that the slide remote actually used BT.
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Old 02-24-2014, 08:56 AM   #9
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I've ordered a Roamio and 2 Minis that are set to arrive Tuesday. I plan to pickup the cablecard tomorrow. As mentioned in another post, I've been around Tivo since the original 14 hour units, but I've spent the last 12 or 13 years with DirecTV. So I've been out of the loop on the stand-alone models for a long time. Of course, I have a few questions.

1) Setup time? I'm not really concerned about the actual setup. I'm more interested in how long the guide population time is. Does it still take about 48 hours before the guide is populated to the point I can add all my season passes?

2) Moca/Ethernet? Currently I'm in a house and suspect I won't have any problems with a MOCA bridge setup. But in a few months we'll be moving to a large apartment building. Once I move, is there any chance MOCA will still work? I have no clue how the cable signal is split in the building but it obviously won't be a home run to my apartment.

3) Bluetooth keyboard? Do they work? I know I saw a thread about BT KB that required a dongle not working, but I have a BT KB that works with my phone, tablet and TV, no dongle required. Will this work?

4) IR/RF? Does the Roamio/Mini support both at the same time? My DirecTV Genie can handle both at once while the regular DirecTV receivers are exclusive, either IR or RF, but not both.

5) Simultaneous output? Does the Roamio output a full 1080 signal on both HDMI and the Component outputs at the same time?

I'm sure I'll have more questions, but that's all I can think of right now.
From experience I can answer 1, 2, 4 & 5.
1. Setup for my Roamio plus and 2 minis took much longer due to problems with Time Warner, if that were out of the mix, then it would have taken under an hour to setup, force a connection and get some guide data downloaded.
2. I already had coax to all locations so I used MOCA for my "network", mainly because all traffic will stay on the MOCA network, and largely leave my ethernet network untouched since I have network security cameras running 24/7. For my setup this works well but if you don't have much traffic on your network and you have ethernet drops available instead of coax, I'd go with ethernet. It really depends on your network situation.
4. IR/RF. The Roamio can accept IR and RF at the same time, and that's the way I use mine (Harmony one and the RF remote used together). The mini only accepts IR unless you buy the remote that comes with the RF (not bluetooth) dongle.
5. Yes, all outputs are active at the same time.

The one thing I'd tell you, from my own advice, is to truly pay attention to what advice you read about signal loss as it pertains to coax coming into your home/apt. If you use splitters, they need to be the higher frequency ones and minimize how many you need to reduce signal loss (it does matter!).
Also, once everything is set up, and if you're using MOCA, use a POE filter where your cable comes into your house/apartment. It prevents signal from escaping and I believe it helps your MOCA network by 'reflecting' signal back to your MOCA network.
I'm also an ex-DirecTV customer (11 years) and I haven't looked back since! That's even with the initial issues I had in getting everything set up.
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Old 02-24-2014, 02:28 PM   #10
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But don't I need the ethernet cable to be attached to get the guide data and for Netflix? Is this separate from the MOCA network?
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Old 02-24-2014, 02:57 PM   #11
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In reference to your Bluetooth keyboard question. I sounds like you simply want an improved method to enter text for SP's and similar.

If you have an iPad or Android based tablet, you can use the TiVo app and the virtual keyboard associated with the remote. (you can also create and modify SP's directly via the app.)
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Old 02-24-2014, 03:00 PM   #12
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But don't I need the ethernet cable to be attached to get the guide data and for Netflix? Is this separate from the MOCA network?
You need ethernet to the Roamio in order to get to Netflix, guide data and any other internet based services.
If you choose to use MOCA setup, then the coax to/from your Roamio will act as the network for the mini's.
So it'd be ethernet to Roamio and then each mini has coax only coming to them.
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Old 02-24-2014, 03:10 PM   #13
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You need ethernet to the Roamio in order to get to Netflix, guide data and any other internet based services.
If you choose to use MOCA setup, then the coax to/from your Roamio will act as the network for the mini's.
So it'd be ethernet to Roamio and then each mini has coax only coming to them.
That is not true. I have no Ethernet cables running to any Tivo in my setup, just coax utilizing MoCA. Granted, it's with FiOS that has MoCA built into its system, but still doesn't change the fact that an Ethernet connection is not needed.

To the OP, are you using FiOS as your ISP? Because that makes MoCA even easier to use.
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Old 02-24-2014, 03:14 PM   #14
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That is not true. I have no Ethernet cables running to any Tivo in my setup, just coax utilizing MoCA. Granted, it's with FiOS that has MoCA built into its system, but still doesn't change the fact that an Ethernet connection is not needed.

To the OP, are you using FiOS as your ISP? Because that makes MoCA even easier to use.
Sorry, I thought in his setup he was getting a Roamio and 2 mini's, which would utilize the internal MoCA in his Roamio. I was unaware that he had something else providing MoCA.
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Old 02-24-2014, 03:36 PM   #15
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In reference to your Bluetooth keyboard question. I sounds like you simply want an improved method to enter text for SP's and similar.

If you have an iPad or Android based tablet, you can use the TiVo app and the virtual keyboard associated with the remote. (you can also create and modify SP's directly via the app.)
Thanks, that solves the problem. I don't mind the virtual typing normally, but I'll have about 100 SPs to add, and that's a lot.
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Old 02-24-2014, 03:40 PM   #16
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Sorry, I thought in his setup he was getting a Roamio and 2 mini's, which would utilize the internal MoCA in his Roamio. I was unaware that he had something else providing MoCA.
Wow you guys are confusing me. There will be nothing else providing MOCA. The setup is with Comcast, not FIOS.
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Old 02-24-2014, 03:46 PM   #17
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Wow you guys are confusing me. There will be nothing else providing MOCA. The setup is with Comcast, not FIOS.
If you don't have anything else providing MoCA then your Roamio has it built in and will provide it as I mentioned in my other post. I don't use FIOS so my guess is that the FIOS modem has MOCA built in but don't quote me on that.
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Old 02-24-2014, 03:51 PM   #18
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If you don't have anything else providing MoCA then your Roamio has it built in and will provide it as I mentioned in my other post. I don't use FIOS so my guess is that the FIOS modem has MOCA built in but don't quote me on that.
But that brings me back to... Don't I need to hook up the ethernet for guide data and Netflix?
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Old 02-24-2014, 03:51 PM   #19
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But that brings me back to... Don't I need to hook up the ethernet for guide data and Netflix?
Yes.
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Old 02-24-2014, 04:00 PM   #20
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So then all my network traffic is exposed to the entire building. Remember, a POE filter will probably not be an option due to not having access.
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Old 02-24-2014, 04:16 PM   #21
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So then all my network traffic is exposed to the entire building. Remember, a POE filter will probably not be an option due to not having access.
If you call up the cable company and tell them what you are doing, they MIGHT be able to send someone out to help you install it in a place that it will work effectively, depending on what kind of wiring setup the building has. They don't want your Moca signals leaking out and possibly causing problems for your neighbors anymore than you do.
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Old 02-24-2014, 04:34 PM   #22
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If you call up the cable company and tell them what you are doing, they MIGHT be able to send someone out to help you install it in a place that it will work effectively, depending on what kind of wiring setup the building has. They don't want your Moca signals leaking out and possibly causing problems for your neighbors anymore than you do.
Interesting idea. I'm sure I'd pay for a truck roll, but it would be worth it.
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Old 02-24-2014, 06:58 PM   #23
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I know when I was back in school, the folks at my apartment complex let me into the room with all of the TV and network wiring. I forget why, but it wasn't a big deal. I am sure that would be a YMMV situation, but depending on the size of the complex and their level of sophistication, they may have seen things like this before, and do it for you/let you accompany them to do the job.

Depending on the layout of your current and future homes, you also have the option of starting the MoCA connection at the router with a MoCA adapter.

Also, I don't think I saw you specify which model of Roamio you ordered. If it happens to be the base model, it does not have a MoCA bridge, so using MoCA would require either an adapter like this, or a router that incorporated MoCA.
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Old 02-24-2014, 07:37 PM   #24
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I was going to buy the Plus and upgrade the HD, but Amazon had the Pro for only $523 so I just went with that.

As far as the apartment building, I'm leery. It's a 55+ senior living building. I don't envision too many tech savvy folks living there. I could be wrong, after all, I'm moving in there.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:47 AM   #25
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look for a splitter

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I was going to buy the Plus and upgrade the HD, but Amazon had the Pro for only $523 so I just went with that.

As far as the apartment building, I'm leery. It's a 55+ senior living building. I don't envision too many tech savvy folks living there. I could be wrong, after all, I'm moving in there.
The three apartment buildings I've worked on in the past 20 years (my mom's, son's and daughter's) had a home run from the distribution room to behind one of the wall jacks and a splitter there to the other room drops. It wouldn't make sense for all the drops to go to distribution, since a hookup would be more complicated.

Try looking behind all the plates, and if you find the main feed and splitter, you can put the POE filter between the main drop and the splitter.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:56 AM   #26
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The three apartment buildings I've worked on in the past 20 years (my mom's, son's and daughter's) had a home run from the distribution room to behind one of the wall jacks and a splitter there to the other room drops. It wouldn't make sense for all the drops to go to distribution, since a hookup would be more complicated.

Try looking behind all the plates, and if you find the main feed and splitter, you can put the POE filter between the main drop and the splitter.
Wow, that would be awesome. Thinking about it, it does make more sense to do it that way.
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Old 02-25-2014, 06:21 PM   #27
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So I'm off to a rousing start. Defective cablecard. Tivo doesn't see card at all. Now I have to wait for the Comcast offices to open tomorrow morning.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:08 PM   #28
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So I'm off to a rousing start. Defective cablecard. Tivo doesn't see card at all. Now I have to wait for the Comcast offices to open tomorrow morning.
Yep, those cable cards can be problematic. I went through 3 of them and two tuning adapters, but with all the pain and problems I had, it was never Tivo's fault.
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Old 02-25-2014, 07:31 PM   #29
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So I'm off to a rousing start. Defective cablecard. Tivo doesn't see card at all. Now I have to wait for the Comcast offices to open tomorrow morning.
Yeah, that happens. I honestly believe that when someone brings back a defective CableCard, they just turn around and hand it back out to the next person who walks in the door asking for one. Next time you go, I suggest you ask for AT LEAST 2 of them, then just take one back later. Hang in there though, your persistence will be rewarded in the end.

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Old 02-26-2014, 11:31 AM   #30
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Got the replacement cablecard this morning and everything now seems to be working. Still have a little tweaking to do. But at least it looks like all 6 tuners are working.

There are a few things that don't seem to be working. I don't see the option to make the info banner go away quickly. And the right arrow doesn't change the size of the info banner. But the Minis seem to be working so that's good.
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