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Old 02-04-2014, 10:46 PM   #211
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I'm about 15 eps behind, but I've got something to look forward to now.
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:59 AM   #212
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Plus I think Ken Jennings is far more personable.

The big deal is basically gaming it to win rather than trying to have fun, and at least giving the people at home a chance to play. (It's actually quite important - half the fun of watching Jeopardy is trying to answer it yourself)

Remember, the goal of the show is to sell ads, and to do that, it helps if the people watching (i.e., the product) are having fun and being entertained, so ads can be sold (the ad company is the customer). "Perfect" play like this to maximize winnings works, but is far less entertaining.

Sort of like being in a class with a substitute teacher who asks a question and the one kid in the room always shoots his hand up and gets called, or playing pool where your buddy just plays perfect shots and never lets you get a chance. It's fun for all about 10 minutes then it's annoying and you wonder what else is on.

Plus, the writers often put a lot of fun in the clues and you lose out on that when the order isn't maintained.
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Old 02-05-2014, 01:15 AM   #213
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The big deal is basically gaming it to win rather than trying to have fun, and at least giving the people at home a chance to play. (It's actually quite important - half the fun of watching Jeopardy is trying to answer it yourself)
a) He's not your dancing monkey. He didn't go on the show to entertain you; he went on there to win.

2) I haven't watched it yet, so I'm curious as to what exactly he's doing that prevents the people at home from trying to answer it themselves.
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Old 02-05-2014, 02:11 AM   #214
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I never watch Jeopardy, but just happened to watch about 10 minutes of the show 2 days ago. I remember thinking how weird it was this Chu guy was jumping all over the board. Yesterday I saw an article about the guy, maybe on CNN, about how he is jumping around.
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:33 AM   #215
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Why do we play?

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Old 02-05-2014, 09:10 AM   #216
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I have no problem with him jumping around.

The one disadvantage to that is that sometimes you need the easier clues to understand what they're trying to get at.

I don't understand why people are in such a tizzy over this. Others have done it before.

I do remember something posting in this thread that it messes with them because of their OCD. (Not going in order.)
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:32 AM   #217
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There was even a piece on ABC Nightly News about Chu last night. I don't see what the big deal is personally, and I never understood why more people don't bet Final Jeopardy for a tie score.
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Old 02-05-2014, 11:28 AM   #218
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Originally Posted by busyba View Post
2) I haven't watched it yet, so I'm curious as to what exactly he's doing that prevents the people at home from trying to answer it themselves.
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I have no problem with him jumping around.

The one disadvantage to that is that sometimes you need the easier clues to understand what they're trying to get at.
My understanding is that wynomo basically has it. It can be harder to play along at home if they jump straight to the hardest two questions in a category before you see any of the easy ones.

You don't get to decypher the patern that the question / answers form. (Must start with a "I", etc)

So his play style apparently doesn't prevent people from playing along at home; but it can make it harder for them to do so succesfully.
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Old 02-05-2014, 05:03 PM   #219
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I don't understand why people are in such a tizzy over this. Others have done it before.
Exactly this. I've seen it many times, and I'm not even a regular viewer.
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:53 PM   #220
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Read an article today where Chu said part of the idea with bouncing around the board is to find the Daily Doubles, but the other part is by jumping between the categories, he is surprising the other players and that is more tiring for them. It doesn't affect him because he knows what category he is going to pick and can prepare himself.
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Old 02-05-2014, 09:36 PM   #221
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The big deal is basically gaming it to win rather than trying to have fun, and at least giving the people at home a chance to play. (It's actually quite important - half the fun of watching Jeopardy is trying to answer it yourself)
But when I know the answer (I'd say a huge proportion of the time -- that does NOT mean I'd actually do well on the show), I know it while Alex is still reading the question (and of course you can't ring in successfully then).
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:54 PM   #222
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So I went and watched just the Chu episodes, and I have even less of an idea of what the hell people are whining about.



Tell you what though... the blond guy on the second episode, he had "serial killer" written all over him.
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Old 02-05-2014, 11:20 PM   #223
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I was surprised they accepted Ag (rather than Silver) for the Final Jeopardy answer on Wednesday's show. Did that seem odd to anyone else?
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Old 02-06-2014, 02:19 AM   #224
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I was surprised they accepted Ag (rather than Silver) for the Final Jeopardy answer on Wednesday's show. Did that seem odd to anyone else?
I was surprised they accepted "silver" instead of Ag.

Edit: "Of the element symbols that don't match the element's English name, this element's symbol is alphabetically 1st."

Hmm, "this element's symbol" probably should be silver.
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Old 02-06-2014, 06:56 AM   #225
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Producers would probably love a do-over in filling those three spots of the battle of the '80s. What a dreary game.

Anyone notice the frequent edits after Cordray wrong answers? Wonder what was happening there.
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:29 AM   #226
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Producers would probably love a do-over in filling those three spots of the battle of the '80s. What a dreary game.

Anyone notice the frequent edits after Cordray wrong answers? Wonder what was happening there.
I don't know what was going on, but I read in a newspaper article that because he is the Director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau he cannot take the prize money or donate it to a charitable organization. The money that he did win stayed with Jeopardy.

So, he actually was playing for the fun of it.
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Old 02-06-2014, 10:46 AM   #227
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Huh. So Jeopardy was playing with a 1-in-45 chance that they wouldn't give away the million?

Seems to me like they should've given the spot to someone else. Wonder if they'd contacted Bruce Seymour (Super Jeopardy! winner from '90)?
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:26 PM   #228
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I was surprised they accepted Ag (rather than Silver) for the Final Jeopardy answer on Wednesday's show. Did that seem odd to anyone else?
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Originally Posted by Turtleboy View Post
I was surprised they accepted "silver" instead of Ag.

Edit: "Of the element symbols that don't match the element's English name, this element's symbol is alphabetically 1st."

Hmm, "this element's symbol" probably should be silver.
It's just ambiguous enough in its wording (which is unusual for them) that they would accept either as the answer. Initially, I was surprised too, but upon rereading the actual clue, realized element or symbol could be correct.
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Old 02-06-2014, 01:34 PM   #229
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I don't know what was going on, but I read in a newspaper article that because he is the Director of the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau he cannot take the prize money or donate it to a charitable organization. The money that he did win stayed with Jeopardy.

So, he actually was playing for the fun of it.
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Huh. So Jeopardy was playing with a 1-in-45 chance that they wouldn't give away the million?

Seems to me like they should've given the spot to someone else. Wonder if they'd contacted Bruce Seymour (Super Jeopardy! winner from '90)?
Well couldn't Jeopardy on it's OWN donate the Million to charity if that guy won it all? Just more for good will than anything!
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Old 02-12-2014, 08:29 AM   #230
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Just watched an interview with Chu. I've never understood why most people just go down the board in order. If there is a subject you know about why not go for the highest value first and work your way down in value? If you can get a few of those high dollar clues under your belt you can be less risky on the lower value clues in categories you aren't familiar with.

Although from what I've heard a good portion of winning Jeopardy is hitting the button at the right time. But if it is a subject you know well and it is a high value clue your opponents may hesitate a little more before quickly hitting the button.

IIRC didn't Watson bounce around the board a lot as well?
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Old 02-12-2014, 01:49 PM   #231
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Just watched an interview with Chu. I've never understood why most people just go down the board in order. If there is a subject you know about why not go for the highest value first and work your way down in value? If you can get a few of those high dollar clues under your belt you can be less risky on the lower value clues in categories you aren't familiar with.
It's not always obvious what the category is "really" about based on the category title. Also, sometimes there's a "trick" to the category that only becomes obvious after 1 or 2 of the clues have been revealed. In that case, it would be better to "waste" the lower-value clues rather than start at the bottom with the high-value clues.

I'm not saying Arthur Chu is doing something wrong, though -- you can't argue with results.
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Old 02-12-2014, 02:42 PM   #232
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The only tactic I don't understand the point of is his playing for the tie. He got the tie in the second game, and he would have tied the first game too if his opponent hadn't gotten FJ wrong.

I don't see what he has to gain by playing against the same person twice, especially since familiarity with the buzzer timing is a significant advantage for the champion.

Unless he's just trying to dick over the producers by making them pay out double the cash.
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Old 02-12-2014, 04:27 PM   #233
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The only tactic I don't understand the point of is his playing for the tie. He got the tie in the second game, and he would have tied the first game too if his opponent hadn't gotten FJ wrong.

I don't see what he has to gain by playing against the same person twice, especially since familiarity with the buzzer timing is a significant advantage for the champion.

Unless he's just trying to dick over the producers by making them pay out double the cash.
From what I understand it's a hedge against getting matched up against an amazing, Ken Jennings level, new player next time. You already feel comfortable competing against the person you aimed to tie with. So game theory says you halve your chance of getting a vastly better player next time by carrying over a known opponent. (Only one new player instead of two)


Now, if you thought you'd beaten them only by luck, then you wouldn't try for the tie, you'd aim to beat them in the hopes that neither of the next players would be better. But that's apparently not normally the case.
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Old 02-12-2014, 05:16 PM   #234
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From what I understand it's a hedge against getting matched up against an amazing, Ken Jennings level, new player next time. You already feel comfortable competing against the person you aimed to tie with. So game theory says you halve your chance of getting a vastly better player next time by carrying over a known opponent. (Only one new player instead of two)
Okay, that makes sense.

I suppose it comes down to whether the statistical gain you get from avoiding the extra opponent of indeterminate skill is enough to outweigh the statistical loss you get from not getting the extra opponent who is unfamiliar with the buzz-in timing.

And figuring that out would involve levels of math beyond my particular skill set.

But if that's an accepted optimal strategy, then I suppose someone already did the math on that.
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:23 PM   #235
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Just watched an interview with Chu. I've never understood why most people just go down the board in order. If there is a subject you know about why not go for the highest value first and work your way down in value?
The Daily Double clues *tend* (no citation provided, hopefully someone else has done the analysis) to be the higher value clues. So banking up the money from the lower value clues lets one have more money to wager on Daily Double clues.
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Old 02-12-2014, 11:11 PM   #236
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The Daily Double clues *tend* (no citation provided, hopefully someone else has done the analysis) to be the higher value clues. So banking up the money from the lower value clues lets one have more money to wager on Daily Double clues.
Your observation is correct. However, there is the advantage of taking them out of play so your opponents can't get them.
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Old 02-12-2014, 11:40 PM   #237
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Your observation is correct. However, there is the advantage of taking them out of play so your opponents can't get them.

Bingo!
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Old 02-13-2014, 11:11 AM   #238
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It's not always obvious what the category is "really" about based on the category title. Also, sometimes there's a "trick" to the category that only becomes obvious after 1 or 2 of the clues have been revealed. In that case, it would be better to "waste" the lower-value clues rather than start at the bottom with the high-value clues.

I'm not saying Arthur Chu is doing something wrong, though -- you can't argue with results.
Also since the answers in a given category don't repeat, it is useful to at least see the easier clues, so that you can eliminate those answers when trying to solve the later clues.

Were I ever on Jeopardy (taken the test twice, to no avail), I'd go "top to bottom" for that reason alone.
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Old 02-13-2014, 03:02 PM   #239
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Also since the answers in a given category don't repeat, it is useful to at least see the easier clues, so that you can eliminate those answers when trying to solve the later clues.

Were I ever on Jeopardy (taken the test twice, to no avail), I'd go "top to bottom" for that reason alone.
I've definitely seen answers repeated in the same category.
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Old 02-13-2014, 03:10 PM   #240
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I've definitely seen answers repeated in the same category.
Yeah, I saw it happen recently (within the last month or two) and was very surprised. Up until then I thought that was something they didn't do.

I forget exactly what it was, but I think all the answers were colors or something with a similarly small set of finite possibilities.
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