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Old 02-12-2014, 09:41 AM   #1501
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Yes Rob, that is exactly the sick thinking that resulted in nothing in Lost coming to a conclusion. Nothing made sense, even for an "in purgatory" ending. Like the atomic bomb going off for instance, that whole plot line just dropped and those 2 old guys protecting the island hundreds of years, but yet Dharma set up there and drilled into it with them doing not a thing.

I am glad word of this sick thinking by writers is getting out. I found it amazing when ABC came out with Alice in Wonderland they even said from the writers of Lost in promos!! Made me know it will never make sense or have an ending and guess what? Ratings are low and I think the connection to a badly written Lost helped do it in. After all the similar Wonderland show is doing much better. I hope those Lost writers never work again writing for anyone, that is my wish.
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:54 AM   #1502
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Yes Rob, that is exactly the sick thinking that resulted in nothing in Lost coming to a conclusion. Nothing made sense, even for an "in purgatory" ending. Like the atomic bomb going off for instance, that whole plot line just dropped and those 2 old guys protecting the island hundreds of years, but yet Dharma set up there and drilled into it with them doing not a thing.

I am glad word of this sick thinking by writers is getting out. I found it amazing when ABC came out with Alice in Wonderland they even said from the writers of Lost in promos!! Made me know it will never make sense or have an ending and guess what? Ratings are low and I think the connection to a badly written Lost helped do it in. After all the similar Wonderland show is doing much better. I hope those Lost writers never work again writing for anyone, that is my wish.
I've given up caring about this stuff anymore. The last season wasn't great and a lot of things didn't make sense at the end. But, it's still one of my top 10 TV shows of all time, and looking back a few years down the road, like the Seinfeld finale, it bothers me less and less. The WTF moments on Lost far outnumber any other series I ever watched (Game of Thrones is catching up, but not quite there yet). The fun of the series is you had NO idea which direction they were turning.
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Old 02-12-2014, 09:54 AM   #1503
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Oh, I think some (most) of the Lost writers are quite good, even brilliant. Including Lindelof.

But they should be on writing staffs, not running the show. Contributing, not controlling.
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The fun of the series is you had NO idea which direction they were turning.
What's even more fun (for me, at least) is when you have NO idea what direction they're turning. But afterward, you look back and think, "Oh, NOW I see where that came from." Not, "Huh. Guess they pulled THAT one out of their @$$."
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Old 02-12-2014, 10:07 AM   #1504
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Oh, I think some (most) of the Lost writers are quite good, even brilliant. Including Lindelof.

But they should be on writing staffs, not running the show. Contributing, not controlling.

What's even more fun (for me, at least) is when you have NO idea what direction they're turning. But afterward, you look back and think, "Oh, NOW I see where that came from." Not, "Huh. Guess they pulled THAT one out of their @$$."
There was definitely some of both. When I think of Lost, I always say, I enjoyed the ride but the destination was disappointing. I think of it as a Cross Country trip to L.A. where all those places you visited on the way were so much better than the eventual destination.
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Old 02-12-2014, 10:46 AM   #1505
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There was definitely some of both. When I think of Lost, I always say, I enjoyed the ride but the destination was disappointing. I think of it as a Cross Country trip to L.A. where all those places you visited on the way were so much better than the eventual destination.
Yeah, if they'd had the same writers but somebody like JMS in charge (but not actually writing himself) to keep an eye on the end-game (hell, to have one in the first place), Lost could have been one of the all-time great shows instead of something that was very entertaining for a few years, and pretty entertaining for a couple of years.
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:28 PM   #1506
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Yeah, if they'd had the same writers but somebody like JMS in charge (but not actually writing himself) to keep an eye on the end-game (hell, to have one in the first place), Lost could have been one of the all-time great shows instead of something that was very entertaining for a few years, and pretty entertaining for a couple of years.
JMS?
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Old 02-12-2014, 12:39 PM   #1507
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JMS?
J. Michael Something no one can ever remember so they just call him JMS. The guy who created Babylon 5. Legendary big-picture guy. Not so great at individual moments.
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Old 02-12-2014, 03:04 PM   #1508
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**** that. Lost > B5.
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Old 02-12-2014, 03:08 PM   #1509
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**** that. Lost > B5.
Oh, absolutely, in many (most) ways.

But in a few significant ways, B5 blows Lost out of the water. And those ways separate Lost from true greatness. If you take the many strengths of Lost, and add to it the few things that Lost was sadly lacking in but B5 nailed, you would have possibly the greatest show in the history of television. THat's all I was trying to say.
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Old 02-12-2014, 03:33 PM   #1510
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Ok.

But I'll say this - I was far happier with the ending to Lost than to that of B5.

You can try to blame it on higher ups all you want (for mucking with seasons etc and it not ending when they wanted), but the Lost writers went way out of their way to make sure they had a guaranteed end date before they started down that path. So it can be done, and B5 failed at that.

By the way, to whomever complained a few posts back about the bomb.. They did exactly what they had to with the bomb. They COULD NOT have it change anything - what happened happened.. Anything from the 2nd flight of Jack in the plane SHOULD have felt wrong - it was.

The ending was great.
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Old 02-12-2014, 03:40 PM   #1511
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Ok.

But I'll say this - I was far happier with the ending to Lost than to that of B5.

You can try to blame it on higher ups all you want (for mucking with seasons etc and it not ending when they wanted), but the Lost writers went way out of their way to make sure they had a guaranteed end date before they started down that path. So it can be done, and B5 failed at that.

By the way, to whomever complained a few posts back about the bomb.. They did exactly what they had to with the bomb. They COULD NOT have it change anything - what happened happened.. Anything from the 2nd flight of Jack in the plane SHOULD have felt wrong - it was.

The ending was great.
I agree, completely.
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Old 02-12-2014, 06:28 PM   #1512
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In Henry Rothwell's brilliant tear-down of the movie Prometheus, he imagines a scrip[t conference between Ridley Scott and Prometheus writer/Lost co-creator Damon Lindelof:



That would be hilarious were it not so true. Can't believe I spent years with LOST and to a lesser and quicker extent BSG trying to figure out the deep meaning and underlying connections that didn't freakin' exist.
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Old 02-12-2014, 06:34 PM   #1513
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That would be hilarious were it not so true. Can't believe I spent years with LOST and to a lesser and quicker extent BSG trying to figure out the deep meaning and underlying connections that didn't freakin' exist.
That's a shame. I still find both shows incredibly satisfying even in rewatches. But to each their own. Luckily, we're fortunate to have a plethora of great TV for everyone's tastes!
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Old 02-12-2014, 07:14 PM   #1514
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I think Lost and BG appeal most to people who like the individual moments, and not so much to people who want the moments to come together into something more.

And they were both shows that had an implicit promise that it would all come together, but failed to do so. Which makes them doubly disappointing to the latter type.
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Old 02-12-2014, 07:20 PM   #1515
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B5 was like a long game of chess where you would look back after a dozen moves and marvel at that weird move that put the pawn in just the right spot.

Lost is like a game of chess where you look back after the game is over and see that for some reason a bunch of pieces seem to have gotten knocked onto the floor.
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Old 02-12-2014, 10:15 PM   #1516
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It shocked to find out that the writers of Breaking Bad made things up as they went along. So did the writers of LOST. BSG also made it up from one episode to the next. Only B5 was created knowing the major details beforehand.

BB worked out perfectly, LOST was so so, and BSG was a disaster. So my take on it is that it doesn't matter if "there is no plan" as long as the writers are good enough to make everything work. If you suck, you get BSG. If you're good, you get BB.
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Old 02-13-2014, 01:57 AM   #1517
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B5 was like a long game of chess where you would look back after a dozen moves and marvel at that weird move that put the pawn in just the right spot.

Lost is like a game of chess where you look back after the game is over and see that for some reason a bunch of pieces seem to have gotten knocked onto the floor.
I like this description. However I would add to the LOST one - "then you bend over, pick half up and add a few more from another game and keep going."
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Old 02-13-2014, 02:15 AM   #1518
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It shocked to find out that the writers of Breaking Bad made things up as they went along. So did the writers of LOST. BSG also made it up from one episode to the next. Only B5 was created knowing the major details beforehand.

BB worked out perfectly, LOST was so so, and BSG was a disaster. So my take on it is that it doesn't matter if "there is no plan" as long as the writers are good enough to make everything work. If you suck, you get BSG. If you're good, you get BB.
Not quite an apples to apples comparison. Breaking Bad had shorter seasons and Vince Gilligan was adamant that they "break" the story of the entire season before writing each of the scripts. This is why the seasons of BB are so well done.

But that's unusual in TV. Most shows will start writing in the early summer, and they'll have a handful of episodes written by the time the cast and crew come off hiatus and start filming. Most shows don't plan ahead because they barely have the ability to stay ahead of the shooting schedule, much less think multiple seasons into the future. And since the number of shows that make it past the first season is miniscule, it doesn't make economic sense for a writer to spend a lot of time developing a long-term plan for a show. Chances are, that time will end up wasted.
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Old 02-13-2014, 02:16 AM   #1519
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BB worked out perfectly, LOST was so so, and BSG was a disaster. So my take on it is that it doesn't matter if "there is no plan" as long as the writers are good enough to make everything work. If you suck, you get BSG. If you're good, you get BB.
And I think a lot of the reason for that was that BB was at heart a character study. They had a sense of where the characters were going; what happened along the way didn't matter so much for its own sake, just so far as it moved the characters along. But Lost and BG both pretended to be something they ended up not being (i.e., Great Mysteries To Be Solved). What happened mattered a lot more than the writers seemed to understand, given the way they chose to structure their stories.
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Old 02-14-2014, 10:17 AM   #1520
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I am glad word of this sick thinking by writers is getting out.
I don't disagree with a lot of what you said, but that's not a real quote from Damon Lindelof. You knew that, right?
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Old 02-14-2014, 02:40 PM   #1521
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And I think a lot of the reason for that was that BB was at heart a character study.
I'd say that Lost was one too.

I was surprised that people hadn't figured this out by Walkabout.
I'd see other people get consumed by "the mysteries of the Island" and I didn't give them a huge amount of thought because I was more interested in the characters.
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Old 02-14-2014, 03:55 PM   #1522
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I'd say that Lost was one too.
But it wasn't presented as solely such. The "mysteries of the island" were given a TON of play, along with the "we had the ending planned from the beginning) statements. So having the mysetiers of the island mean nothing and the character study mean everything was a partial bait-and-switch. And kudos to you for not caring about the good stuff (), but some of us did, and I hope you can see that our deep disappointment was entirely justified from that perspective, just as was your unadulterated bliss.
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Old 02-14-2014, 05:07 PM   #1523
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But it wasn't presented as solely such. The "mysteries of the island" were given a TON of play, along with the "we had the ending planned from the beginning) statements. So having the mysetiers of the island mean nothing and the character study mean everything was a partial bait-and-switch. And kudos to you for not caring about the good stuff (), but some of us did, and I hope you can see that our deep disappointment was entirely justified from that perspective, just as was your unadulterated bliss.
In every interview that I saw or read with Cuse and Lindelof (dating back to the end of Season 1 or beginning of Season 2), they said that it was about the characters. So it's not like they were hiding that intent.

And it's not that I wasn't curious about the mysteries, I just didn't obsess about them.

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Old 02-15-2014, 11:32 AM   #1524
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It's not obsessing about the mysteries. It's the fact that so many of them were a multiyear major part of the show's fabric. I never expected to have "answers" to most of the so-called mysteries but I did not expect to have the last part of Season 6 introduce a whole new story (the cretinous brothers story) that made most everything else that had transpired for years suddenly irrelevant.

I even would argue for keeping some mysteries unanswered. For example the inane reveal of what the smoke monster really was was far worse than never answering that specific detail. Leaving it as the "island's security system" was enough of an answer.
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Old 02-15-2014, 03:03 PM   #1525
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We'll have to agree to disagree as I don't see how the brothers' story made anything before irrelevant.
Whether Cuse and Lindelof pulled Jacob and Smokey out of their butt or not at the end of Season 5, there were seeds sown in previous seasons.

To be fair, I do think the Temple subplot in Season 6 can go.
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Old 02-15-2014, 04:28 PM   #1526
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We'll have to agree to disagree as I don't see how the brothers' story made anything before irrelevant.
When they became the central focus of the show, it made everything that seemed to be the central focus of the show up to that time irrelevant. The central mystery of the show became not what we had been watching for several years, but what they introduced near the end.
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Old 02-15-2014, 06:51 PM   #1527
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When they became the central focus of the show, it made everything that seemed to be the central focus of the show up to that time irrelevant. The central mystery of the show became not what we had been watching for several years, but what they introduced near the end.
As I said, the seeds were sown earlier.
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Old 02-16-2014, 10:33 AM   #1528
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It's not obsessing about the mysteries. It's the fact that so many of them were a multiyear major part of the show's fabric. I never expected to have "answers" to most of the so-called mysteries but I did not expect to have the last part of Season 6 introduce a whole new story (the cretinous brothers story) that made most everything else that had transpired for years suddenly irrelevant.

I even would argue for keeping some mysteries unanswered. For example the inane reveal of what the smoke monster really was was far worse than never answering that specific detail. Leaving it as the "island's security system" was enough of an answer.
This, but we've been over it again so many times. My single biggest complaint is that they moved the goalposts to the exact opposite end of the field, making the rest pretty much irrelevant. I could have handled no answers to most of the mysteries, or even dumb answers, but I'll never forgive the writers for switching the story around so much that the last season felt like a completely different show.

Still, I enjoyed most of it. Like I said the journey was MUCH better than the destination.
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Old 02-16-2014, 10:54 AM   #1529
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Well said Steveknj
Wonderful journey
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Old 02-19-2014, 02:46 PM   #1530
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Rewatching now with my son (now that he is old enough and wants to watch it). It's such a fun ride!
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