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Old 01-18-2014, 05:04 PM   #1
jetcobra
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Confusing Problem with THD

I originally bought this THD new in May of 2009. At that time I upgraded it with a MAXTOR 1TB HDD and saved the 160 GB HDD that was replaced.

Earlier this week I got home from work and the THD was stuck on the Welcome Powering Up screen, so I replaced the Maxtor 1TB HDD with the 160 GB HDD and the THD booted right up - I let it update the SW to 11m and successfully re-paired the MCARD (I have FIOS) and ordered a 2 TB HDD that I will use going forward.

Prior to receiving the 2 TB HDD the system locked onto the Welcome Powering UP screen once again with the 160 GB HDD in there after working for 3 days. I checked all of the PS voltages and got 12.5VDC, 3.3VDC and 4.8 VDC and discovered two 1000uF Caps that were "bulging".

I have the 2 TB HDD (a WB AV-GP HDD) but I am not sure what to do with it.

Today I replaced the two "bulging" Caps and tried the THD again with the 160 GB HDD and still get the Welcome Powering Up screen locked.

I am currently using Ultimate Boot CD to check the 1 TB HDD that I replaced with the 160 GB HDD this week.

After all of this I am wondering what I should try next??? If the THD somehow damaged the 160 GB HDD (this drive was only used one time when I originally booted up the THD to check it out and then was immediately replaced with the upgraded 1 TB HDD) after I installed it, I do not want to take the chance of damaging the new 2 TB HDD.

Any ideas???
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Old 01-18-2014, 06:03 PM   #2
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You only changed out the bulging caps, but the others may well have failed as well.

I would test the hard drives and replace the other caps.

Bad motherboards are possible, but not common.
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Old 01-18-2014, 06:50 PM   #3
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I have ordered a full set of the Caps from Mouser but they will not be in until next week.

So, I will continue to test the HDD's with Ultimate Boot but it is taking a very, very long time.

Thanks for the input.
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Old 01-18-2014, 07:22 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetcobra View Post
I have ordered a full set of the Caps from Mouser but they will not be in until next week.

So, I will continue to test the HDD's with Ultimate Boot but it is taking a very, very long time.

Thanks for the input.
That's why they call it the "long" test.



And you need to run it on any new or new to you drive you're getting ready to use before you put it into service.

And a failing TiVo power supply is much more likely to to provide undervoltage than overvoltage, so it probably won't damage a drive itself.

The software on the drive might get scrambled, however.

I think there's an old Maxtor diagnostic on the UBCD, but Maxtor got bought by Seagate some years back, and the newer Seagate diagnostic on there should handle Maxtors as well.

And the newest WD diagnostic is the one to use on the WD20EURS.

And yes, it can take a few hours, but you gain a lot of peace of mind.
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Old 01-19-2014, 11:03 AM   #5
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Still Have Problem

Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
That's why they call it the "long" test.



And you need to run it on any new or new to you drive you're getting ready to use before you put it into service.

And a failing TiVo power supply is much more likely to to provide undervoltage than overvoltage, so it probably won't damage a drive itself.

The software on the drive might get scrambled, however.

I think there's an old Maxtor diagnostic on the UBCD, but Maxtor got bought by Seagate some years back, and the newer Seagate diagnostic on there should handle Maxtors as well.

And the newest WD diagnostic is the one to use on the WD20EURS.

And yes, it can take a few hours, but you gain a lot of peace of mind.
I completed the UBCD tests for all of the drives and both the original 160 GB and the 1 TB tested bad. The new 2 TB tested good.

Now I am concerned that the original 160 went bad in just three days. I also do not have an image now to use on the 2 TB, so can someone help with an image??

My next step is to try the 2 TB, but only to prove it works. Then I want to fully remove/replace all Caps in the PS before any extended use.

Is that the path I should take?

Thanks
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Old 01-19-2014, 12:27 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by jetcobra View Post
I completed the UBCD tests for all of the drives and both the original 160 GB and the 1 TB tested bad. The new 2 TB tested good.

Now I am concerned that the original 160 went bad in just three days. I also do not have an image now to use on the 2 TB, so can someone help with an image??

My next step is to try the 2 TB, but only to prove it works. Then I want to fully remove/replace all Caps in the PS before any extended use.

Is that the path I should take?

Thanks
We may still be able to copy the 1TB to the 2TB and save your shows and settings, but in the meantime, to make sure the problem isn't outside the hard drive...

Wait until about EDIT--better make that 4:00PM--upload slower than first projected--END EDIT (3:00PM) EST (01/19/2014) so that these have finished uploading.


Use with the MFS Live cd v1.4

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49887720/652m.bak


Use with WinMFS

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49887720/652m.tbk



Restore without doing any expanding. It needs to be done as a separate step anyway and besides, we need to limit the number of variables when testing and troubleshooting.
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Last edited by unitron : 01-19-2014 at 02:34 PM.
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Old 01-19-2014, 07:03 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
We may still be able to copy the 1TB to the 2TB and save your shows and settings, but in the meantime, to make sure the problem isn't outside the hard drive...

Wait until about EDIT--better make that 4:00PM--upload slower than first projected--END EDIT (3:00PM) EST (01/19/2014) so that these have finished uploading.


Use with the MFS Live cd v1.4

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49887720/652m.bak


Use with WinMFS

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/49887720/652m.tbk



Restore without doing any expanding. It needs to be done as a separate step anyway and besides, we need to limit the number of variables when testing and troubleshooting.
How do I use the bak and tbk files - I am not familiar with either of them?
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Old 01-19-2014, 08:27 PM   #8
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How do I use the bak and tbk files - I am not familiar with either of them?
How did you upgrade to the 1TB Maxtor?
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Old 01-19-2014, 09:09 PM   #9
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I used winMFS and copied from the original drive and then to the 1 TB.

I have not tried to do this with either the tbk or bak files - do I just attach the 2 TB and try to call up one of the files - the procedure I have does not mention this.

Thanks for your help
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Old 01-19-2014, 09:44 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by jetcobra View Post
I used winMFS and copied from the original drive and then to the 1 TB.

I have not tried to do this with either the tbk or bak files - do I just attach the 2 TB and try to call up one of the files - the procedure I have does not mention this.

Thanks for your help
If you're already familiar with WinMFS, then use the .tbk file.

Launch WinMFS, select the 2TB drive, then click on

restore

(I think it's under File)

and it'll ask for the file from which to restore. Click on Browse, navigate to where you've got the file stored, and click on it.

You'll be presented with the option to choose a larger size for the swap partition if you wish to, and you might also be offered an option on whether or not to use the optimized partition layout.

That is the layout TiVo started using beginning with the Series 2 models, and it is the one you want. You would only not want it if you were restoring a Series 1 drive.

I think it's worded kind of backwards in that checking the box means you don't want to use it, but read carefully to be sure rather than trusting my memory.

If it doesn't say anything about the optimized layout, then don't worry about it, it's going to use it by default.

And since this is only an installation for test purposes, go ahead and enter

1024

in the swap size box.

That'll give you a 1GB swap partition, which will be plenty big enough if there's any question of the stock size not being large enough.

It may appear, once the restoration process starts, that it has frozen.

Just let it be until it finishes (although if it hasn't finished in say half an hour, consider it not working), and when it does finish it'll say you have extra space, do you want to expand. Tell it no.

Close that box, and then click on

mfsinfo

and see if everything looks okay.

The partition map will show 2 MFS pairs and 14 partitions overall, with the last being a very large Apple Free partition.

Shut things down and try the 2TB in the TiVo.
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Old 01-19-2014, 09:58 PM   #11
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Never mind!

I found the last upgrade I did in 2011 for my third THD and it had the backup file for that original TIVO and it was a tbk file.

So I used it to set up the 2 TB (I did not expand it) and now have it back in the THD and hooked it up to check to see if it will boot. It is now to the Almost there screen. And now has fully booted up.

So should I go ahead to expand the 2 TB now?
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Old 01-19-2014, 10:14 PM   #12
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Never mind!

I found the last upgrade I did in 2011 for my third THD and it had the backup file for that original TIVO and it was a tbk file.

So I used it to set up the 2 TB (I did not expand it) and now have it back in the THD and hooked it up to check to see if it will boot. It is now to the Almost there screen. And now has fully booted up.

So should I go ahead to expand the 2 TB now?
Do you want to try to save the shows and stuff on the 1TB or are you in a hurry to go ahead and start using the TiVo again, this time with 2TB of space?


Either way, wrap some paper towel around that 1TB and stick it in the freezer while we wait to be sure that the 2TB is going to work out alright.

And of course you still need to re-cap that power supply.

You might want to let the TiVo go ahead and connect to the mothership a couple of times and make sure it's going to be able to download and index show guide info okay, and then do the expand.
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Old 01-19-2014, 10:31 PM   #13
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Do you want to try to save the shows and stuff on the 1TB or are you in a hurry to go ahead and start using the TiVo again, this time with 2TB of space?


Either way, wrap some paper towel around that 1TB and stick it in the freezer while we wait to be sure that the 2TB is going to work out alright.

And of course you still need to re-cap that power supply.

You might want to let the TiVo go ahead and connect to the mothership a couple of times and make sure it's going to be able to download and index show guide info okay, and then do the expand.
I do not care about the shows on the 1 TB - mostly junk, so I will let it do its thing a couple of times before expanding.

I will let you know how it goes - my Caps from Mouser are due on Tuesday so I will also finish replacing the main ones, not the 200V one, this week before doing the expand.

Thanks so much for your help.
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Old 01-19-2014, 10:48 PM   #14
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I do not care about the shows on the 1 TB - mostly junk, so I will let it do its thing a couple of times before expanding.

I will let you know how it goes - my Caps from Mouser are due on Tuesday so I will also finish replacing the main ones, not the 200V one, this week before doing the expand.

Thanks so much for your help.
Hope the rest of the process goes smoothly for you.
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Old 02-01-2014, 06:50 PM   #15
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Hope the rest of the process goes smoothly for you.
Well I let the 2 TB run for quite a while before expanding it. I did that with mfsadd today and finished re-capping the PS and started everything back up. Everything is working well so far - I had it talk to TIVO and that went well. The system information shows 287 HD hours - it that correct?

Thanks
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Old 02-01-2014, 10:18 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by jetcobra View Post
Well I let the 2 TB run for quite a while before expanding it. I did that with mfsadd today and finished re-capping the PS and started everything back up. Everything is working well so far - I had it talk to TIVO and that went well. The system information shows 287 HD hours - it that correct?

Thanks
I've got a 648 with a WD20EURS, 1GB swap partition and never bothered with Supersizing, and it says up to 287 HD hours or 2511 SD hours.

I haven't filled it up yet, so I just have to assume it's telling me the truth.
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Old 02-04-2014, 07:30 PM   #17
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Error #51

Okay now that I have the new 2TB and the PS updated and have had the TIVO HD communicate and download the 11m SW and the guide information, I attempted to record something and got a message saying this:

A hardware problem has been detected which needs your attention. Until this problem is fixed, you will not be able to record programs or watch recordings. You will need to restart the TIVO HD DVR now. If you see this message again even after the DVR restarts, please contact TiVo at 1-877-367-8486 and report error #51.

I restarted the unit and that did not work so I called TIVO and essentially got I don't know so send in the unit and they will repair for $150 or more.

Can someone please give me some input on what to try. From reading before I did not think the WD20EURS needed to have Itellipark disabled so could that be a problem?? Or what else should I try?
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Old 02-04-2014, 08:33 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by jetcobra View Post
Okay now that I have the new 2TB and the PS updated and have had the TIVO HD communicate and download the 11m SW and the guide information, I attempted to record something and got a message saying this:

A hardware problem has been detected which needs your attention. Until this problem is fixed, you will not be able to record programs or watch recordings. You will need to restart the TIVO HD DVR now. If you see this message again even after the DVR restarts, please contact TiVo at 1-877-367-8486 and report error #51.

I restarted the unit and that did not work so I called TIVO and essentially got I don't know so send in the unit and they will repair for $150 or more.

Can someone please give me some input on what to try. From reading before I did not think the WD20EURS needed to have Itellipark disabled so could that be a problem?? Or what else should I try?
error 51 is supposed to be the TiVo Service Number mismatch you get when you install an image from a different TiVo of the same model.

Go into System Info and see what it says the TiVo Service Number is and if it matches the one on the sticker on the back of the TiVo where the power cord plugs in.

I suspect it'll be blank or a bunch of Xs.

Keep forcing connections to the TiVo server and keep hard rebooting, and eventually it should work itself out.

And you can also check to see if it has the right MAK number yet.

Unless "I restarted the unit and that did not work" means you restarted and it never got beyond the very first "Welcome" screen, in which case

wdidle3.exe

is on the UBCD somewhere and you might need to run it after all, depending on how long ago your EURS was made or exactly from whom you bought it.

It turns out that even buying from Amazon and/or newegg you have to watch out that you aren't actually buying from one of their "partners".

Apparently some of the EURSs were originally destined for, or maybe actually installed in, the WD Elements external cases (apparently they just throw in whichever drive the right size that they have a surplus of at the time, in some cases even Caviar Blacks). Could be that Intellipark is activated on those.
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:07 PM   #19
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error 51 is supposed to be the TiVo Service Number mismatch you get when you install an image from a different TiVo of the same model.

Go into System Info and see what it says the TiVo Service Number is and if it matches the one on the sticker on the back of the TiVo where the power cord plugs in.

I suspect it'll be blank or a bunch of Xs.

Keep forcing connections to the TiVo server and keep hard rebooting, and eventually it should work itself out.

And you can also check to see if it has the right MAK number yet.

Unless "I restarted the unit and that did not work" means you restarted and it never got beyond the very first "Welcome" screen, in which case

wdidle3.exe

is on the UBCD somewhere and you might need to run it after all, depending on how long ago your EURS was made or exactly from whom you bought it.

It turns out that even buying from Amazon and/or newegg you have to watch out that you aren't actually buying from one of their "partners".

Apparently some of the EURSs were originally destined for, or maybe actually installed in, the WD Elements external cases (apparently they just throw in whichever drive the right size that they have a surplus of at the time, in some cases even Caviar Blacks). Could be that Intellipark is activated on those.
You are right - the TSN is all "0"s. The MAK is there. The EURS was built in October of 2013 and I got it directly from Amazon. Should I still check it??

I will continue to have the HD contact TIVO and do hard re-boots and this weekend I will take the drive out and check Itellipark using the Uboot disk.
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:12 PM   #20
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error 51 is supposed to be the TiVo Service Number mismatch you get when you install an image from a different TiVo of the same model.

Go into System Info and see what it says the TiVo Service Number is and if it matches the one on the sticker on the back of the TiVo where the power cord plugs in.

I suspect it'll be blank or a bunch of Xs.

Keep forcing connections to the TiVo server and keep hard rebooting, and eventually it should work itself out.

And you can also check to see if it has the right MAK number yet.

Unless "I restarted the unit and that did not work" means you restarted and it never got beyond the very first "Welcome" screen, in which case

wdidle3.exe

is on the UBCD somewhere and you might need to run it after all, depending on how long ago your EURS was made or exactly from whom you bought it.

It turns out that even buying from Amazon and/or newegg you have to watch out that you aren't actually buying from one of their "partners".

Apparently some of the EURSs were originally destined for, or maybe actually installed in, the WD Elements external cases (apparently they just throw in whichever drive the right size that they have a surplus of at the time, in some cases even Caviar Blacks). Could be that Intellipark is activated on those.
You are right - the TSN is all "0"s. The MAK is there. The EURS was built in October of 2013 and I got it directly from Amazon. Should I still check it??

I will continue to have the HD contact TIVO and do hard re-boots and this weekend I will take the drive out and check Itellipark using the Uboot disk.
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:40 AM   #21
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When I have had that problem, I had to do a c&de to correct it. Never would correct for me no matter how many times I forced a connection.
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Old 02-05-2014, 01:20 AM   #22
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Doesn't Tivo just send you a refurbished TivoHD when you send one in for repairs? Will they remove your new drive and install it in the refurbished one they send you?
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Old 02-05-2014, 07:10 AM   #23
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Doesn't Tivo just send you a refurbished TivoHD when you send one in for repairs? Will they remove your new drive and install it in the refurbished one they send you?
Highly unlikely, and it wouldn't do any good anyway, since any recordings on the drive are tied to the TiVo Service Number of the TiVo you send in and they aren't/can't going to change the TSN of the new refurb.

So don't leave a good drive inside it, they aren't actually going to try to do any actual repairing, and probably won't do any testing either.

In fact, if you fixed the power supply, take the good caps out and solder back in the bad ones it came with.
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Old 02-05-2014, 08:49 AM   #24
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You are right - the TSN is all "0"s.
You need to perform a Clear & Delete Everything to re-pair the hard drive to the motherboard.
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Old 02-05-2014, 12:56 PM   #25
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You need to perform a Clear & Delete Everything to re-pair the hard drive to the motherboard.
Thanks for the inputs.

I will do a C&D tonight and build it back up again.
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Old 02-05-2014, 07:31 PM   #26
kucharsk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve614 View Post
You need to perform a Clear & Delete Everything to re-pair the hard drive to the motherboard.
Yep, just had this issue yesterday when moving a hard drive to a new Roamio; the trick is you need to do the C&DE on the recipient TiVo.
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Old 02-06-2014, 04:57 AM   #27
delgadobb
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jetcobra View Post
Okay now that I have the new 2TB and the PS updated and have had the TIVO HD communicate and download the 11m SW and the guide information, I attempted to record something and got a message saying this:

A hardware problem has been detected which needs your attention. Until this problem is fixed, you will not be able to record programs or watch recordings. You will need to restart the TIVO HD DVR now. If you see this message again even after the DVR restarts, please contact TiVo at 1-877-367-8486 and report error #51.

I restarted the unit and that did not work so I called TIVO and essentially got I don't know so send in the unit and they will repair for $150 or more.

Can someone please give me some input on what to try. From reading before I did not think the WD20EURS needed to have Itellipark disabled so could that be a problem?? Or what else should I try?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmbach View Post
When I have had that problem, I had to do a c&de to correct it. Never would correct for me no matter how many times I forced a connection.
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve614 View Post
You need to perform a Clear & Delete Everything to re-pair the hard drive to the motherboard.
I was going to create a longer post, but jmbach & steve614 already said the same thing I would have. A few times when I've done upgrades on Tivo HDs I've gotten that message & each time a Clear & Delete Everything has done the trick. I don't know all the details of your particular situation, but that would seem to be a good starting point.
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Old 02-07-2014, 11:27 AM   #28
jetcobra
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C&DE Worked - Totally back on line

Thanks again everyone.

The C&DE worked and once I completed GS everything was back on line - the proper Service Code was there and no need to re-pair the MCARD.

Since I have three of these, this was good practice for the inevitable issues with the other two.
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Old 02-07-2014, 02:05 PM   #29
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Just to make sure, check any premium channels you are subscribed and if they do not come in, you'll have to re-pair.
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Old 02-08-2014, 10:14 PM   #30
jetcobra
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmbach View Post
Just to make sure, check any premium channels you are subscribed and if they do not come in, you'll have to re-pair.
I checked and the premium channels were not coming in - all others are. I called FIOS with the info given by the HD and they could not get the premium channels working so they are sending me a new MCARD.
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3 x TIVO HD's (Lifetime) - 2 with 1TB HDD's and 1 with 2TB HDD- Verizon FIOS CC's
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"Life is tough; it gets tougher if you're STUPID" John Wayne
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