TiVo Developer Program?

[cyphers72]

Is there any official email address, website, anything for third party developer contacts for TiVo? I've been looking, but turned up nothing so far. Not specifically for HME, I know that's probably something they don't promote anymore. Thanks.

[wmcbrine]

http://www3.tivo.com/business/developers/index.html

[moyekj]

Signed up months ago and haven't heard a peep.

[innocentfreak]

I believe Megazone said fall for the SDK. He asked about it during the cable show. It is in his TiVo summary post on gizmolovers.

Dave Zatz just posted something about it also.

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2012-06/tivo-developer-channel-courts-third-party-apps/

[lrhorer]

Well, I for one can't read the logo. Not because I can't read binary, but because I can't see the digits in the logo. They are too dim and indistinct. It's like reading a damned captcha logo. I can never read those #$#$% things.

[innocentfreak]

Looks like TiVo updated the enrollment page slightly.

http://www.changedetection.com/log/tivo/www3/index3_log.html

They tweaked some of the wording and adding coming soon.

I don't like that they updated. The TiVo ClientPlatform SDK for AS3 enables third-party developers to build applications for TiVo devices, and for websites, mobile and tablet applications that need to interact with TiVo devices and services.

They removed the portion that said you would be able to build website apps, mobile apps, and tablet apps. Maybe this is coming in a later version now?

[sbiller]

Looks like TiVo updated the enrollment page slightly.

http://www.changedetection.com/log/tivo/www3/index3_log.html

They tweaked some of the wording and adding coming soon.

I don't like that they updated.

They removed the portion that said you would be able to build website apps, mobile apps, and tablet apps. Maybe this is coming in a later version now?

I think this is good news. The On Device SDK is available now and I think the other APIs will be available in the fall. It appears they are making progress.

[windracer]

Well, I for one can't read the logo.
Try the larger version. :D

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/tivo-developer-channel.jpg

It's cute. I like how they aligned the letter colors with their binary representation. Although TiVo guy is a little stretched out in his new 16:9 aspect ratio. ;)

[lrhorer]

Yeah, that's a better, but I can still just barely see those red and green characters.

[Worf]

Meh. TiVo should've gone geeky and use the ASCII representation of "TiVo" in the binary... nice little easter egg :).

[Allanon]

Meh. TiVo should've gone geeky and use the ASCII representation of "TiVo" in the binary... nice little easter egg :).

It does, just remove the zeros from the ends:

1010100 = 084 = T
1101001 = 105 = i
1010110 = 086 = V
1101111 = 111 = o

[windracer]

It even specifically says that in the article. :)

"In discussions with TiVo’s Product Manager, we came up with the idea of representing the brand name with binary code. The logo’s silhouette shape helps it to be recognizable as TiVo. With the lines of code it gives a nod to software developers who understand how to read binary."

[sbiller]

http://developer.tivo.com/

[innocentfreak]

I think I am a little more interested in the web app since it could apply more to KMTTG and PyTiVo.

[morac]

It looks like you need to be part of a company to register for a developer account. I guess you can make up your own company, but it has to have a web site and the terms of service says falsifying your registration is terms for having your developer access revoked.

Actually the terms (http://developer.tivo.com/terms) are fairly developer antagonistic. It basically allows TiVo to do whatever they want with your submitted apps, though they do allow developers to pull their apps.

[moyekj]

Just saw this thread a few minutes ago and registered. I gave "kmttg" as project name and kmttg Google home as the web page (which in hindsight was probably a bad idea after reading some of the terms and conditions).

I just got the bouncing "Hello TiVo" example that is part of the TiVo Flash Application Server running on my TiVo (though nothing really exciting there as I had already found a way to run flash apps previously via RPC).

A lot more reading and experimenting will be needed to try and get my own AS3 sample up and running. I do not plan on using any of the commercial AS3 development kits that were suggested in the documentation so will have to see if I can get things rolling with free software. The timing is rather bad though as I've been extremely busy lately so probably won't have much serious time to dedicate to exploring this further.

[moyekj]

P.S. Very disappointed already though that 720p is max supported resolution...

[morac]

P.S. Very disappointed already though that 720p is max supported resolution...

I'm wondering if that only applies to the UI and not video since we know 1080p/24 video works. The UI can't be in 1080p since the hardware doesn't support that.

[wmcbrine]

I'm wondering if that only applies to the UI and not video since we know 1080p/24 video works.

That's how it is with HME -- the "overlay" (as I think of it) resolution is maximum 1280x720, but the video streams (which have their own, separate resolution) can be 1080. Since it's the same hardware, I'm not surprised that the resolution hasn't changed.

[moyekj]

Well, I played with SDK a little today. I'm still not able to get a compiled AS3 application to work (I tried a very simple one and the provided CopyProtectionExample code). However I did get an AS2 example working right away just as was the case when running via RPC (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=486051). I think that just means I'm probably not using the expected Flex SDK version when compiling to swf for AS3 code. Currently I'm using FlashDevelop and chose "Air AS3 Projector" type project with Output Platform=Air Mobile 2.5.
This Flash stuff is still very foreign and confusing to me so if someone reading this knows more about Flash and what the proper AS3 SDK to use that TiVo is expecting please post here. The docs say:
"Note: TiVo supports only Adobe AIR for TV 2.5."
But that is not very clear to me which SDK and project setup that corresponds to.

BTW the .tivoipkg that the SDK Packager makes is just a gzip'd tar file with the swf, flashapp.xml, manifest.txt and META-INF/AIR/application.xml file. You can extract the "tivo_hello" example that comes with the TivoAppServer setup. I mimicked the flashapp.xml & application.xml files of that example.

[moyekj]

OK, after a little trial and error I finally found the right AS3 SDK. The one I used that worked was:
flex_sdk_4.1.0.16076A (which corresponds to AIR 2.5 apparently)

You can download from here:
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/189315/FlexSDKs/flex_sdk_4.1.0.16076A.zip

In FlashDevelop you then point to it as follows:
Project->Properties->SDK->Custom SDK (and enter path to where you unzipped above)

I got my simple AS3 hello world example working. The CopyProtectionExample is not quite running yet but I don't have any time left to spend on this to try and get that going. Anyway, good progress it would seem.

[moyekj]

I never did get TiVo's CopyProtectionExample working because when adding TiVo SDK AS3 class library as extension TiVo cannot find it even though I included it in packager. It's laughably skimpy class library so I don't see it as being useful to use anyway - just straight AS3 seems sufficient.

I did get sample AS3 code with video running last night, but there are several issues/restrictions:
1. Video is embedded in AS3 canvas and thus restricted to max resolution of 1280x720 on a TiVo. (You can play a higher resolution video but you have to embed it in 1280x720 canvas max - i.e. effectively downrezzing).
2. Only video types supported by Flash 10 will work. i.e. flv & mpeg4 with H.264 video + AAC audio. AC3 audio doesn't work and neither does mpeg2 video.
3. Unlike HME the Flash code is actually running on the TiVo itself, so if you want to try and get fancy like doing transcoding, browsing local file structure, etc. you will have to do all that on web server side (web server that is feeding the TiVo the Flash code).

However Netflix app accomplishes 1080p video & AC3 audio they must be utilizing a different SDK than this one AFAICT which gives them access to full TiVo video resolution. Based on the skimpy documentation provided with this SDK I don't see any mention of how to play full resolution video (>720p).

i.e. To me this SDK seems to target games & other non-video applications which is not something I'm interested in.

[sbiller]

I never did get TiVo's CopyProtectionExample working because when adding TiVo SDK AS3 class library as extension TiVo cannot find it even though I included it in packager. It's laughably skimpy class library so I don't see it as being useful to use anyway - just straight AS3 seems sufficient.

I did get sample AS3 code with video running last night, but there are several issues/restrictions:
1. Video is embedded in AS3 canvas and thus restricted to max resolution of 1280x720 on a TiVo. (You can play a higher resolution video but you have to embed it in 1280x720 canvas max - i.e. effectively downrezzing).
2. Only video types supported by Flash 10 will work. i.e. flv & mpeg4 with H.264 video + AAC audio. AC3 audio doesn't work and neither does mpeg2 video.
3. Unlike HME the Flash code is actually running on the TiVo itself, so if you want to try and get fancy like doing transcoding, browsing local file structure, etc. you will have to do all that on web server side (web server that is feeding the TiVo the Flash code).

However Netflix app accomplishes 1080p video & AC3 audio they must be utilizing a different SDK than this one AFAICT which gives them access to full TiVo video resolution. Based on the skimpy documentation provided with this SDK I don't see any mention of how to play full resolution video (>720p).

i.e. To me this SDK seems to target games & other non-video applications which is not something I'm interested in.

Interesting. My guess is that TiVo would be very receptive to allowing developers to create something with high resolution video like Netflix. Are you going to post your questions over on the developers forum?

[moyekj]

Well, other than myself and gonzotek there's no other posts in that forum. I don't think TiVo has actively advertised the SDK yet. I signed up when web page first became available but never got any notices that it was up and running so I doubt others got notified either. So my guess is very minimal traffic on that forum. Don't know if TiVo employee(s) are monitoring or not. Can't hurt to post some questions I suppose but I don't expect an answer any time soon if I do.

EDIT: Posted question over there FWIW.

[sbiller]

Understood. I know Jay Patel is actively working the launch as the Product Manager, Apps & APIs at TiVo. I'm hoping he'll notice this thread and/or start engaging with developers to give everyone a sense of when and where TiVo is going with the program.

[moyekj]

FYI, it looks like in order to be able to run flash applications developed with the SDK and not officially released to TiVo, your boxes (individual TSN #s) need to be flagged as a developer (this is done when you sign up as a developer). i.e. Unless you officially release a Flash program you designed to TiVo, other non-developers won't be able to run it.

This restriction in conjunction with the very limited capabilities the Flash SDK currently provides anyway makes it less useful and flexible than traditional HME.

I'm hoping at some point TiVo officially opens up and documents the MINDRPC protocol which would be far more useful and less restrictive.

[sbiller]

Understood. I know Jay Patel is actively working the launch as the Product Manager, Apps & APIs at TiVo. I'm hoping he'll notice this thread and/or start engaging with developers to give everyone a sense of when and where TiVo is going with the program.

I noticed yesterday that Jay Patel is no longer at TiVo as of November 2012. I'm not sure what this means from a "Developer Program" perspective. I suspect we should see an update from the company sometime soon.

Jay Patel - LinkedIn (http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=3811782&authType=NAME_SEARCH&authToken=jA0g&locale=en_US&srchid=c04f7cc7-c404-4219-93c2-01e789a1d05b-0&srchindex=1&srchtotal=763&goback=%2Efps_PBCK_*1_Jay_Patel_*1_*1_*1_*1_*2_*1_Y_*1_*1_*1 _false_1_R_*1_*51_*1_*51_true_*1_us%3A0_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2 _*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2&pvs=ps&trk=pp_profile_photo_link)

Jay Patel - Twitter (https://twitter.com/jaybhai)

[gonzotek]

I noticed yesterday that Jay Patel is no longer at TiVo as of November 2012. I'm not sure what this means from a "Developer Program" perspective. I suspect we should see an update from the company sometime soon.

Jay Patel - LinkedIn (http://www.linkedin.com/profile/view?id=3811782&authType=NAME_SEARCH&authToken=jA0g&locale=en_US&srchid=c04f7cc7-c404-4219-93c2-01e789a1d05b-0&srchindex=1&srchtotal=763&goback=%2Efps_PBCK_*1_Jay_Patel_*1_*1_*1_*1_*2_*1_Y_*1_*1_*1 _false_1_R_*1_*51_*1_*51_true_*1_us%3A0_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2 _*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2_*2&pvs=ps&trk=pp_profile_photo_link)

Jay Patel - Twitter (https://twitter.com/jaybhai)Ugh, reminds me of Arthur Van Hoff (http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-5678315-7.html?part=rss&tag=5678315&subj=news) :( I accidentally broke that news when I mentioned here in the forums that his resume was on his website, along with some HME examples. Turned out his resume listed TiVo as a past employer.

[innocentfreak]

Well that sucks. Hopefully TiVo still goes forward with it though who knows at this point.

[moyekj]

I'm pretty discouraged. 0 feedback on my questions in the "forum". Stopped looking at this weeks ago since there doesn't seem to be much value in what is published so far.

[gonzotek]

I'm pretty discouraged. 0 feedback on my questions in the "forum". Stopped looking at this weeks ago since there doesn't seem to be much value in what is published so far.+1
Yup, at least in the early HME heydays there was a lot of activity and some measurable level of feedback from TiVo employees and insiders.

[morac]

TiVo tends to be somewhat manic depressive or even ADD when it comes to things like this. They'll announce and implement a development platform and then quickly abandon it.

[ssputay]

If I did subscription on developer.tivo.com with TSN of my TiVo device, but how I might know that it succeeded?
Still getting error as "local application is not authorized" when trying to load any .tivoipkg file

[ssputay]

Did all the steps as you mentioned above, but getting wired error "Unsupported SWF version"!

[gonzotek]

Well, I for one can't study the logo. Not because I can't study binary, but because I can't see the numbers in the logo. They are too dim and indistinct. It's like studying a darned captcha logo. . . . . . . . .Really? They're plenty easy for me to see in this image, with zoom set to 100%: http://www.zatznotfunny.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/tivo-developer-channel.jpg
(click to embiggen)

Of course, decoding the logo has been the most rewarding part of the whole program so far, for me :(

[wmcbrine]

Really?

You're replying to a spammer, who took lrhorer's post @ #5 and substituted some words. :o

[gonzotek]

Facepalm :o. Still, the Developer Program has thus far totally underwhelmed.

[innocentfreak]

Facepalm :o. Still, the Developer Program has thus far totally underwhelmed.

Well Sbiller did say it was a soft launch. Hopefully we see something in 2013 but I wouldn't hold my breath either.

[ssputay]

Hi

I need help, maybe someone already had such experience. I can't run any of .tivoipkg on my TiVo Premiere. Every time getting message "local application execution is not authorized" error.

Was getting through TiVo Developer forum, and I found following thread:
"One possible reason you are unable to launch the example is that your TiVo is not yet configured to allow for local execution of apps loaded with the TiVo App Server tool. In order to do that, we will need to set a development flag on your box. That is the reason we ask for your TiVo model and TSN... that's all we need to take care of that step for you.
I plan to do this for all new members in batches, probably every other week. I plan to do this for the first set of members that have provided their TSNs this Friday, October 26. So hopefully you can test again this coming weekend and let us know how things go."

Someone can help me with this?

[gonzotek]

Hi

I need help, maybe someone already had such experience. I can't run any of .tivoipkg on my TiVo Premiere. Every time getting message "local application execution is not authorized" error.

Was getting through TiVo Developer forum, and I found following thread:
"One possible reason you are unable to launch the example is that your TiVo is not yet configured to allow for local execution of apps loaded with the TiVo App Server tool. In order to do that, we will need to set a development flag on your box. That is the reason we ask for your TiVo model and TSN... that's all we need to take care of that step for you.
I plan to do this for all new members in batches, probably every other week. I plan to do this for the first set of members that have provided their TSNs this Friday, October 26. So hopefully you can test again this coming weekend and let us know how things go."

Someone can help me with this?Never got it working for me(you'll see that I posted a request for the same issue in the Tivo Developer Forum).

[moyekj]

Apparently the 1 person at TiVo that had any interest in this has left the company and there have been no signs that TiVo is interested in promoting this at all, so I wouldn't hold my breath. Plus, given what has been published so far you are better off with traditional HME anyway.