Star Trek:TNG "The Vengeance Factor" (S3E09)

[doom1701]

I fell behind last week--I'll say I was giving everyone the chance to watch the new Bluray. :)

Some technical comments:

The lighting in the intro is impressive. I wonder if the coloring really worked that way (especially the way the the uniforms popped when the flashlights hit them).

Speaking of the flashlights, I've always loved the away team flashlights. They seem like such a cool design design. I wonder if flashlights of that design are available for purchase.

I'm trying to remember if we've seen the power indicator on phasers before this episode--it's a nice little detail thrown in.

As for the episode:

There were some things not to like--the over the top Gatherers, the somewhat weak acting from the girl playing Yuta...but overall, this one was pretty powerful. I loved how it focused on Riker, and not just in a "Riker bags the pretty alien girl" way like some other episodes have. It gave the character some much needed depth, and just like Levar Burton doing a great job in "The Enemy", Frakes did excellent work here.

The other interesting character focus was Crusher. I know that she's not the most loved character on the series (although she's definitely better than Pulaski!), and I know I've also expressed an unhealthy love for McFadden, but I've always thought that, when given a chance to really play a part (instead of filling in a "He's dead, captain" type role), she did a great job. Her part in this episode was smaller, but very well done.

And back to those gripes, or at least the first--while the Gatherers were definitely over the top, I liked them. They weren't parodies of strong characters--they seemed much more real, with their over the top attitude begin an important piece of who they were.

[gchance]

Speaking of the flashlights, I've always loved the away team flashlights. They seem like such a cool design design. I wonder if flashlights of that design are available for purchase.

I always hated them, they're more or less little cubes that only fit in the palm of the hand. The way they hold them is weird too, instead of holding them down and relaxed, they always hold them overhand, which would really get tiring after a while.

I loved how it focused on Riker, and not just in a "Riker bags the pretty alien girl" way like some other episodes have. It gave the character some much needed depth, and just like Levar Burton doing a great job in "The Enemy", Frakes did excellent work here.

Yeah they threw a curveball there. It totally looked like that was the direction they were moving the moment he noticed her, then the serious look he gave when he found out about her clan. How DARE you ask for Rikerlove, then pull this crap?

I enjoyed it. I'm looking forward to the upcoming episodes.

Greg

[Snappa77]

xSiE9aatX7M

I enjoy the Star Trek threads but sometimes have to use google/youtube to figure out which ep you guys are discussing. Hope this helps ppl who had same prob I did.

[doom1701]

I get core episode information, like episode # and first air date, from Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation_episodes

[DougF]

This was kind of a treat, as it was like getting a bonus episode nearly 18 years later. I have absolutely no memory of this one. I either missed it in first-run or just forgot about it. Either way, new TNG in 2012! Plus, it was pretty good.

[LoadStar]

I enjoy the Star Trek threads but sometimes have to use google/youtube to figure out which ep you guys are discussing. Hope this helps ppl who had same prob I did.

Well, this is a continuation of the "rewatch" threads for TNG. Virtually everyone posting in these threads is going through either DVDs or NetFlix and watching the episodes.

In any case... I didn't get the ending, particularly the use of the phaser. It's been demonstrated before that the phaser has the ability to temporarily knock someone out, so I'm not sure why it didn't work that way here. I suppose it could be possible that the Acamarians, or Yuta specifically, had some sort of resistance to being stunned, but that was never really shown or stated in the episode. (Of course, Riker also could've just had the Enterprise beam Yuta aboard, possibly directly into a holding cell, to avoid killing her.)

The CSI-ish "zoom and enhance" was a bit ridiculous, especially when 90% of the face in the photo was obscured.

Those complaints aside, I thought the episode was pretty good.

[doom1701]

Seems like an upcoming episode shows someone actually breaking out of a transporter beam.

[JYoung]

In any case... I didn't get the ending, particularly the use of the phaser. It's been demonstrated before that the phaser has the ability to temporarily knock someone out, so I'm not sure why it didn't work that way here. I suppose it could be possible that the Acamarians, or Yuta specifically, had some sort of resistance to being stunned, but that was never really shown or stated in the episode. (Of course, Riker also could've just had the Enterprise beam Yuta aboard, possibly directly into a holding cell, to avoid killing her.)



I remember dialogue indicating that she had been "enhanced" to age slower and other things.
Upping her resistance to phaser fire didn't seem out of line to me.


The CSI-ish "zoom and enhance" was a bit ridiculous, especially when 90% of the face in the photo was obscured.


But it is 24th century technology back by a computer with massive computing power.

I buy that much more than the CSI/Las Vegas 'instant enhancement".

[LoadStar]

But it is 24th century technology back by a computer with massive computing power.

I don't care how much power you have... if the information isn't there, there's no computer in the world that can bring it back. Not now, not in the future.

[doom1701]

I don't care how much power you have... if the information isn't there, there's no computer in the world that can bring it back. Not now, not in the future.

But they were able to build it from a reflection in the eye of one of the other people in the picture.

(yeah, CSI has actually used that)

[Fish Man]

I always hated them, they're more or less little cubes that only fit in the palm of the hand. The way they hold them is weird too, instead of holding them down and relaxed, they always hold them overhand, which would really get tiring after a while.


The weird way they hold them is due to the fact that they have to conceal a wire running from the flashlight down their sleeve.

I read this in a book about the production of ST:TNG somewhere, long ago, while it was still in production.

Those flashlights, to make them look futuristic, were designed to be improbably bright given their size. This wasn't that hard to achieve. The actors simply had a battery pack strapped to their back (with camera angles designed not to show it, of course) and the lights had a very bright, but power hungry, halogen bulb.

IIRC, if you freeze frame certain points, you can see the wire running along the bottom of the actor's wrist and going down their sleeve. I'll bet it will be easier when the HD version of episodes where they use those flashlights come out.

[JYoung]

I don't care how much power you have... if the information isn't there, there's no computer in the world that can bring it back. Not now, not in the future.

I haven't seen this episode in a few years but IIRC, at least 60% of her face was visible.

Since human(oid) faces are essentially symmetrical, I don't see an issue with extrapolating the rest of the data.

[doom1701]

I haven't seen this episode in a few years but IIRC, at least 60% of her face was visible.

Since human(oid) faces are essentially symmetrical, I don't see an issue with extrapolating the rest of the data.

I'd say it was 40%, tops. But the scene doesn't cause me any issues--the Federation is supposed to be more advanced than the alien race, so it's not surprising for Data to do something that would have never occurred to them.

[Bryanmc]

The weird way they hold them is due to the fact that they have to conceal a wire running from the flashlight down their sleeve.

I read this in a book about the production of ST:TNG somewhere, long ago, while it was still in production.

Those flashlights, to make them look futuristic, were designed to be improbably bright given their size. This wasn't that hard to achieve. The actors simply had a battery pack strapped to their back (with camera angles designed not to show it, of course) and the lights had a very bright, but power hungry, halogen bulb.

IIRC, if you freeze frame certain points, you can see the wire running along the bottom of the actor's wrist and going down their sleeve. I'll bet it will be easier when the HD version of episodes where they use those flashlights come out.
Well they improved this by DS9 because there's a scene where O'Brien is in a conduit, is holding the light (on), puts it down on the floor (turns it off), does something with both his hands, then picks the light back up and turns it back on. No wires going to the light.

[doom1701]

Well they improved this by DS9 because there's a scene where O'Brien is in a conduit, is holding the light (on), puts it down on the floor (turns it off), does something with both his hands, then picks the light back up and turns it back on. No wires going to the light.

I actually saw some shots of the flashlights in DS9--they're much larger, but they are held in the same way. I prefer the early TNG flashlight, even though it's apparently not feasible to make.

[Fish Man]

I actually saw some shots of the flashlights in DS9--they're much larger, but they are held in the same way. I prefer the early TNG flashlight, even though it's apparently not feasible to make.

DS9, obviously, started several years later.

Battery and light bulb technology was advancing very fast during that time. It's very possible that the props department was able to come up with a "futuristic flashlight" that was completely self contained that had the brightness and other characteristics they wanted, where the props department of TNG was unable to do so.

[alansh]

The bit with Riker "forced" to kill Yuta was a bit contrived. As mentioned they could beam her away, or Riker could simply grab her. We didn't see any evidence of her being super strong. The stun setting clearly had an effect on her; why not keep a constant beam on her? A little restaging (her closer to the target, less affected by the stun) would have worked.

Aside from that nitpick, it was pretty good.

They didn't always have the futuristic flashlights. In "Peak Performance" they carried these (http://www.flashlightmuseum.com/First-Alert-Flashlight-RL100H-Ready-Lite-Rechargeable-Light-with-Plug-In-and-Swivel-Head-MIB-1979) onto the Hathaway.