PCMag Reviews the Elite: 2.5 out of 5 Stars

[sbiller]

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2399349,00.asp

Pros
2TB hard drive with 300-hour HD recording capacity. Four tuners. THX Certified. New TiVo interface. Online content from Netflix, Blockbuster, Hulu Plus, Pandora, You Tube, and Amazon.

Cons
Digital Cable only (requires CableCARD). Requires extra paid subscription. QWERTY remote is extra. Major cable company DVRs are better connected to tablets and smartphones.

Bottom Line
The high-end Premiere Elite DVR has a lot to offer for TiVo fans, but the competition has surpassed TiVo on several key features, particularly support for devices like smartphones and tablets.

The TiVo Premiere Elite is an improved device for an ultimately shrinking market: the hardcore TiVo user. It will give the TiVo fan a lot to crow about while recording 300 hours of HD on four channels simultaneously, but the DVR is unlikely to add brand new customers to the TiVo fold. It's so tied to digital cable that it is unlikely to sway the non-TiVo user from renting a much more convenient and similar HD DVR for much less money. Why buy a TiVo DVR when the cable company DVR is the same amount of money or less, and lets you better manage it with your smartphone or tablet? Five years ago, TiVo had a perceptibly insurmountable lead on the competition. Now that gap is bridgeable by a toddler in brand new shoes.

[socrplyr]

Cons
Digital Cable only (requires CableCARD). Requires extra paid subscription. QWERTY remote is extra. Major cable company DVRs are better connected to tablets and smartphones.

Interesting lack of comparison. Most of those are an exaggeration at best.

Requires extra paid subscription? Sure, but the cable company's cost money as well. Is it really a complaint about another bill (which is avoidable with lifetime).

QWERTY remote is extra? This one is definitely way off base, as no other device even has this as an option.

The other two are iffy as cons.

In Tivo's current position, the comment that Tivo may go in the next 25 months (payback period for lifetime) is laughable. Clearly the reviewer was out of touch with reality.

Now that said, they missed the three biggest cons that may make the 2.5 rating valid. 1. Isn't worth the premium cost. or 2. Have to give up standard cable features (VOD etc). 3. It doesn't just work out of the box (not really Tivo's fault on that one though).

[innocentfreak]

Kind of a joke review if you ask me. First they penalize TiVo based off the fact it needs a CableCARD which isn't TiVo's choice. They don't seem to know it has MoCa since they state you would need to buy a TiVo WiFi adapter if you don't have a wired connection. They don't seem to know TiVo now allows streaming since they mention issues with MRV and copy once. They mention how cable companies will allow you free exchanges for a broken DVR with no mention of the fact you also would have paid more than if you had bought a lifetime Elite.

[rainwater]

QWERTY remote is extra? This one is definitely way off base, as no other device even has this as an option.


Yeah, they say cable companies have better mobile apps and somehow they have a problem with the remote that comes with TiVos? Have they ever actually used a cable company remote?

[nrc]

Wow. 2.5 out of 5 stars with nothing in the review that suggests that they did anything beyond compare the specs on the box to their cable DVR and play with the iPad app.

[magnus]

The remote con is a joke. The TiVo app has a frikken remote if you don't want to pay for the hardware.

[DrewG5]

Reviewer must not have actually used the dvr. Charter offers zero apps for their DVR's that are not TiVo, the only loss over Charter's DVR here is on-demand that was painful to use do to the MOXI interface.

[ShinySteelRobot]

Interesting review. I thought it was a bit harsh but then I'm a huge TiVo fan.

Nevertheless, the reviewer made some good points. For example, why can't I watch my TiVo's content remotely on my iPad/iPhone? Right now TiVo's achilles heel seems to be software. 20.2 is the software the Premiere should have launched with, not the software we finally got 2 years later. TiVo has been resting on their laurels for too long, and the Joneses are catching up.

[ShinySteelRobot]

Now that said, they missed the three biggest cons that may make the 2.5 rating valid. 1. Isn't worth the premium cost. or 2. Have to give up standard cable features (VOD etc). 3. It doesn't just work out of the box (not really Tivo's fault on that one though).

My biggest complaint is that the TiVo's Netflix software is just awful. Seriously, of all the Netflix clients I have (PC, Mac, iPad, Xbox, Apple TV, etc), the TiVo Netflix client is the worst.

Rumor has it there's a new Netflix client coming for TiVo. It can't happen too soon. We've been waiting a year and a half for this.

VOD would be nice but it's less relevant when you have Netflix streaming.

[crxssi]

My biggest complaint is that the TiVo's Netflix software is just awful. Seriously, of all the Netflix clients I have (PC, Mac, iPad, Xbox, Apple TV, etc), the TiVo Netflix client is the worst.

Rumor has it there's a new Netflix client coming for TiVo. It can't happen too soon. We've been waiting a year and a half for this.

Technically, we have been waiting something like 5+ years. The Netflix interface on the Premiere is identical the the stuff that was on the Series 3/HD. It has NEVER been upgraded.

VOD would be nice but it's less relevant when you have Netflix streaming.

*IF* you have netflix streaming, yes. My cable company offers lots of free VOD which I cannot access with the Premiere. Netflix requires payment, and like many other people, when they doubled the price of their plans, I dropped streaming.

[crxssi]

For example, why can't I watch my TiVo's content remotely on my iPad/iPhone?

Or on Android.

This is more a limitation of bandwidth and the remote hardware (i-whatever, Android) than of the Premiere. The remote hardware simply doesn't have the ability to play back high-bitrate MPEG2 or AC3. That is what the TiVo has to offer, because that is what it captures from over the air or cable. Neither the Premiere nor the remote hardware have anywhere near the necessary CPU power to attempt to transcode the original source material into something that can be displayed properly.

I would LOVE to have the feature, but it is not a realistic expectation.

[socrplyr]

My biggest complaint is that the TiVo's Netflix software is just awful. Seriously, of all the Netflix clients I have (PC, Mac, iPad, Xbox, Apple TV, etc), the TiVo Netflix client is the worst.

Rumor has it there's a new Netflix client coming for TiVo. It can't happen too soon. We've been waiting a year and a half for this.

VOD would be nice but it's less relevant when you have Netflix streaming.

My personal opinion is that Tivo's Netflix client is OK. There are better ones out there, but it allows you to sit down at it, see your queue, watch something, and search for anything that is available. Browsing and adding to the queue is the only things missing. I don't see a minor update to an extra pay service as a big Tivo seller. However, I do have many friends that when I say you have to give up a feature that you are already paying for like VOD (no matter how crappy) makes them think twice.

[socrplyr]

One more thing I thought about. Did they really just harp on the mobile app because remote delete wasn't an option? Remote delete is pretty much useless as the DVR will automatically delete things for you AND there is 300 hours of space. I find that hilarious.

[rainwater]

Rumor has it there's a new Netflix client coming for TiVo. It can't happen too soon. We've been waiting a year and a half for this.


It's not a rumor. It is coming this spring according to TiVo.

[rainwater]

Nevertheless, the reviewer made some good points. For example, why can't I watch my TiVo's content remotely on my iPad/iPhone?

Which cable company allows this? Some of them have a live streaming app with a few channels but you would get that if you were a TiVo user too.

[crxssi]

One more thing I thought about. Did they really just harp on the mobile app because remote delete wasn't an option? Remote delete is pretty much useless as the DVR will automatically delete things for you AND there is 300 hours of space. I find that hilarious.

What mobile app were they using??? I can certainly delete programs using the Android app- I can even select multiple shows quickly and then do a mass delete in one operation.

The review really is bad and unfair. The Premiere has enough legit issues without crap being made up or misrepresented.

[socrplyr]

What mobile app were they using??? I can certainly delete programs using the Android app- I can even select multiple shows quickly and then do a mass delete in one operation.

The review really is bad and unfair. The Premiere has enough legit issues without crap being made up or misrepresented.

They were saying that you had to be at home (local network) to remote delete... Which I think is true, but a relatively useless feature for the purpose they spent a paragraph explaining.

[sbiller]

Joel has been reviewing TiVo products for quite some time on PCMag.com. In addition to his current TiVo Elite review here is a summary of his other reviews. My conclusion that the cost of the Elite is the single biggest factor in his score. Rating the Slide Remote which IMHO is the best qwerty remote on the planet, 3/5, is just crazy as well. He dings the price tag but I haven't regretted spending $80+ on my first slide and wouldn't hesitate to buy another one for $40+ if my dog accidentally eats the remote!


August 2010 - TiVo Slide Remote - 3/5
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2368138,00.asp

The biggest downside is the remote's $90 price, which is steep, even if it comes with a Bluetooth receiver so you can use it at any angle. If you regularly use TiVo as a search tool to find new stuff to watch, the investment makes sense. For the rest of us, the tried-and-true bundled TiVo remote works, and, well, it won't cost you a dime.

March 2010 - TiVo Premiere - 4/5
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2361785,00.asp

So is TiVo Premiere worth it? That depends. If you're already a TiVo aficionado, the new DVR is an improved version of what you already have. If you're a new user, however, it's a bit less compelling. Sure, the Motorola QIP-6416 you get with a FIOS subscription has only a 160GB hard drive and isn't expandable, but you don't have to pay for it upfront, instead it'll cost you about $15 to $20 a month to rent, and if it ever breaks, you can bring it back to a Verizon store for a replacement. While you won't get the full-featured TiVo experience, cable company DVRs have matured in the past few years and many have TiVo-like UIs and can perform some TiVo-like searches. Also, FIOS DVRs, for example, integrate Web widgets like Facebook, Twitter, ESPN, and WeatherBug that you won't get with TiVo.

In the end, while we really like TiVo, and the Premiere offers the richest TiVo experience yet, it's not exactly a no-brainer upgrade for current users, and it's an even tougher sell for new users.

September 2008 - TiVo HD XL - 4/5
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2329290,00.asp

Sure, the TiVo HD XL is an improvement over the TiVo HD, but ultimately, given its price, it's not all that compelling unless you record a lot of HD programming. My take: The $299 TiVo HD, with its sweet combination of features and an attractive price, is still the DVR champ. The $600 TiVo HD XL is likely to appeal to the hard-core TiVo fan who will actually use all that storage.


July 2007 - TiVo HD - 4.5/5
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2161653,00.asp

TiVo fans and fanatics rejoice! The TiVo HD gives old and new TiVo users the HDTV quality they want without the steep $800 price of last year's TiVo Series 3 HD. That's because it's basically the "TiVo Series 3 light" that has been rumored since the arrival of the Series 3. Understandably, a few Series 3 (S3) features have been left out to make the TiVo HD more affordable. Even so, most users won't miss them. This is the high-def TiVo you've been waiting for.

Combining the best of the legendary simple-to-use TiVo interface with dual CableCARD readers and an affordable price (finally!), the new TiVo HD delivers the promise that the TiVo Series 3 HD made.

[compnurd]

I think the review is pretty bad. He is comparing the interface to that of the Verizon one, which 1 Not everyone has the new interface yet and 2, there is people complaining up and down about the speed of it. 3 Verizon is not that big of a "cable" MSO yet. If you want to compare, compare to the crappy ass cable company I have and there interface.

[ShinySteelRobot]

For example, why can't I watch my TiVo's content remotely on my iPad/iPhone?
This is more a limitation of bandwidth and the remote hardware (i-whatever, Android) than of the Premiere. The remote hardware simply doesn't have the ability to play back high-bitrate MPEG2 or AC3. That is what the TiVo has to offer, because that is what it captures from over the air or cable. Neither the Premiere nor the remote hardware have anywhere near the necessary CPU power to attempt to transcode the original source material into something that can be displayed properly.

Regarding bandwidth: With Multi-Room Streaming, one TiVo can stream a show to another TiVo over a WiFi N network. iPad/iPhone can connect to the save WiFi N network that the TiVos use. So, bandwidth between devices is not a problem.

Regarding CPU power: The iPad 2 CPU (1 GHz A5 dual core) and the iPhone 4S CPU (800 MHz A5 dual core) are both faster than the TiVo Premiere CPU (400MHZ Broadcom BCM7413 dual core). So, CPU power on the iPad/iPhone isn't a problem.

In summary, iOS devices have more CPU power and equal bandwidth to the TiVos. Therefore if the TiVos can stream to each other with MRS, then TiVos should be able to stream to an iPad TiVo app too.

[bdraw]

I think the review is pretty bad. He is comparing the interface to that of the Verizon one, which 1 Not everyone has the new interface yet and 2, there is people complaining up and down about the speed of it. 3 Verizon is not that big of a "cable" MSO yet. If you want to compare, compare to the crappy ass cable company I have and there interface.

Verizon claims they finished rolling out 1.9, but yeah, Verizon isn't even a top 5 provider in fact they are 1/5 the size of Comcast.

http://www.ncta.com/Stats/TopMSOs.aspx

[bdraw]

One more thing I thought about. Did they really just harp on the mobile app because remote delete wasn't an option? Remote delete is pretty much useless as the DVR will automatically delete things for you AND there is 300 hours of space. I find that hilarious.

I agree, but I think his real point was that the remotes don't work in real time away from home, and I agree this is really lame. Not lame enough that I'd say cable DVRs are comparable, but yeah, lame.

[ADG]

I don't understand - why does anyone here care what PC Mag says?

[crxssi]

Regarding CPU power: The iPad 2 CPU (1 GHz A5 dual core) and the iPhone 4S CPU (800 MHz A5 dual core) are both faster than the TiVo Premiere CPU (400MHZ Broadcom BCM7413 dual core). So, CPU power on the iPad/iPhone isn't a problem.

Wrong. Neither is anywhere near fast enough to real-time transcode 1080P/AC3 in the CPU. Unless there is some secret, undocumented support for high bitrate MPEG2 and AC3 in the GPU, the game is over.

In summary, iOS devices have more CPU power and equal bandwidth to the TiVos. Therefore if the TiVos can stream to each other with MRS, then TiVos should be able to stream to an iPad TiVo app too.

Your logic is severely flawed. MRS is nothing the same, because there is zero transcoding involved.

[ShinySteelRobot]

why can't I watch my TiVo's content remotely on my iPad/iPhone?

Your logic is severely flawed. MRS is nothing the same, because there is zero transcoding involved.

To put it another way, all I'm asking for is a MRS client iPad app. Why is that so impossible? There is plenty of CPU power and bandwidth to make that work. It should be simple to watch a TiVo's content on a remote device. TiVo just needs to write the software for iPad/iPhone/etc.

Unless there is some secret, undocumented support for high bitrate MPEG2 and AC3 in the GPU, the game is over.

Why would anyone want to do that when MRS is available? Why make the solution way way harder than it actually needs to be? I don't recall ever suggesting any kind of real time transcoding. :)

[crxssi]

To put it another way, all I'm asking for is a MRS client iPad app. Why is that so impossible? There is plenty of CPU power and bandwidth to make that work.

No there isn't.

The GPU in the tablet/phone will only handle accelerated playback of very specific codecs at very specific bitrates, resolution, etc. When we researched this before, neither MPEG 2 nor AC3 were supported on those devices. That means they must be either decoded and scaled in software (main CPU), which is impossible for HDTV on even very, fast general purpose CPU's, or it must be transcoded on the fly to something the table/phone CAN play. That is also not possible because transcoding high bitrate 1080P MPEG 2 + AC3 to (for example) H.264 + AAC is *TREMENDOUSLY* CPU intensive. I can't even come close to doing that real time with my main Linux desktop, which is a *6 core x 3.6Ghz* computer!

[ShinySteelRobot]

neither MPEG 2 nor AC3 were supported on those devices.
Ah, ok, so the issue is that Apple doesn't include an MPEG-2 decoder in iOS. Now we're on the same page. :up:

That sucks, because clearly Apple has no problem with MPEG-4. Not to mention various other codecs such as support for HTML5 video codec and other stuff.

(Ya, I know that transcoding takes a long time even on a fast box. ;) )

[rainwater]

TiVo has already demo'd a box that will allow this type of encoding. It will most likely allow realtime transcoding to mpeg-4 from any TiVo to any compatible device (iPad, etc).

[davezatz]

Verizon is not that big of a "cable" MSO yet.

No, it's not Time Warner or Comcast numbers but Verizon has over 4 million television subscribers - seems pretty respectable.

Which cable company allows this? Some of them have a live streaming app with a few channels but you would get that if you were a TiVo user too.

AT&T U-verse let's you download and/or stream DVR-ed recordings to a mobile. But I'm not sure if it actually streams from *your* DVR or a copy on their servers. DISH Network offers a DVR with integrated Slingbox capabilities and a Slingbox accessory for other DVRs.

[magnus]

TiVo has already demo'd a box that will allow this type of encoding. It will most likely allow realtime transcoding to mpeg-4 from any TiVo to any compatible device (iPad, etc).

Do you know if Roku is the same deal? Would it be possible to have a Tivo channel on Roku then?

[crxssi]

Ah, ok, so the issue is that Apple doesn't include an MPEG-2 decoder in iOS. Now we're on the same page. :up:

Not only in iOS, but there is no hardware decoder chip for it- which is far more important.

That sucks, because clearly Apple has no problem with MPEG-4. Not to mention various other codecs such as support for HTML5 video codec and other stuff.

MPEG4/Quicktime (H.264 + AAC) is Apple's preferred format, and one that Android seems to have adopted too. I don't think my Xoom (Tegra 2 based) has acceleration for MPEG2, either.

(Ya, I know that transcoding takes a long time even on a fast box. ;) )

I can get away with real-time DVD resolution transcoding in realtime, but it is difficult. DVD resolution h.264 to MPEG2, however, seems to be no problem at all (example would be using PyTivo + ffmpeg to transcode and transfer to the Premiere- I can do it faster than real-time).

HD (1080i/P) just blows it all out of the water.

[crxssi]

TiVo has already demo'd a box that will allow this type of encoding. It will most likely allow realtime transcoding to mpeg-4 from any TiVo to any compatible device (iPad, etc).

I don't think it is transcoding. It looks like it is just a slingbox. I believe they are taking low-def, analog, NTSC video and just digitizing it. I seriously doubt it is HD. I could be wrong.

Much to my disbelief, there *are* some specialized chips, now, that can digitize analog HD into h.264 in real-time. But they are rare and still expensive.

And there are so devices with specialized chips that can transcode/scale mpeg2 to h.264 on the fly. One example is the SiliconDust stuff: http://www.silicondust.com/products/hdhomerun/atsc/

[davezatz]

I believe they are taking low-def, analog, NTSC video and just digitizing it. I seriously doubt it is HD. I could be wrong.
I believe you're wrong.

Much to my disbelief, there *are* some specialized chips, now, that can digitize analog HD into h.264 in real-time. But they are rare and still expensive.
Not rare, nor expensive. Back in 2008 when the Slingbox PRO HD came out at $300 it may have been.

[crxssi]

Do you know if Roku is the same deal? Would it be possible to have a Tivo channel on Roku then?

TiVo is not going to allow high-res digital video push to any device that is not strictly controlled. If they did, they will likely go against their deal with CableLabs and lose their ability to use cable cards and perhaps even Netflix/Amazon. The content owners are beyond crazy/paranoid about content theft. So DRM is there to make all the legit people suffer greatly, while the non-legit people just download the stuff right off torrents and do whatever they want.

[crxssi]

[low-def analog digitizing] I believe you're wrong.

Well, I guess we wait and see, since although we have a picture of the box, we don't of the connectors, nor any specs. :(

[mmf01]

What a piss poor review from PCMag. Seems they are truly reaching to just put something in the "Cons" category. Less they forget, Big Cable's DVR's require a subcription too, it's called a monthly recurring charge.

[rainwater]

I don't think it is transcoding. It looks like it is just a slingbox. I believe they are taking low-def, analog, NTSC video and just digitizing it. I seriously doubt it is HD. I could be wrong.

Elite boxes don't even have analog tuners. They couldn't send such a encoding. The box clearly handles HD content. And there would be no need for such a box if it wasn't encoding to MPEG-4. Most likely, it will work like a Slingbox in that it can dynamically adjust video quality. This type of transcoding of HD content is current pricey which is why they say it will be a while before this functionality is inside of a TiVo itself.

[crxssi]

Elite boxes don't even have analog tuners. They couldn't send such a encoding.

We are talking about outputs from the Premiere, not inputs. The Elite, just like the other Premieres, has two analog outputs- component (HD) and composite (SD).

The [mystery] box clearly handles HD content.

I did manage to find Engadget's photos of it, and it looks like it has only Ethernet and power. No video input, no USB. This means it is all digital:

http://www.engadget.com/2012/01/11/updated-tivo-netflix-youtube-interfaces-and-ipad-streaming-hand/

So it probably sits on the network, looking like another Premiere. It would then accept a stream from the Premiere, transcode on the fly, then offer that stream to mobile devices. Since the Premiere can only offer video in one format, it will be HD input to the mystery box, if that is what was captured by the Premiere. Of course, that doesn't mean anything about what resolution or bitrate is spit out, and for all we know, this product might never see the light of day.

Yet, the other picture of it has lots (5) of cables going into it:
http://www.zatznotfunny.com/2012-01/tivo-demos-ipad-video-streaming/
Which is totally at odds with the CES photos. Hmm. So maybe it isn't quite as clear, afterall.

I would love to have such a thing to view video on my Xoom, if it were cheap and had NO SERVICE FEES attached to it.

[aaronwt]

Verizon claims they finished rolling out 1.9, but yeah, Verizon isn't even a top 5 provider in fact they are 1/5 the size of Comcast.

http://www.ncta.com/Stats/TopMSOs.aspx

Verizon is in the top seven. At least as of 3Q2011. I don't think the 4Q2011 list is out yet.

The best they could probably hope for is to be number five at some point since number five Cox, had 4.8 million. Number four is way up there with 12 million(Time Warner). And number 6 Charter was around 4.4 million.

[rainwater]

We are talking about outputs from the Premiere, not inputs. The Elite, just like the other Premieres, has two analog outputs- component (HD) and composite (SD).

The box is a pure network device. The outputs from a Premiere are irrelevant since it will work for all Premiere's on the network. You don't sell a separate device for encoding if it can only encode analog content. Such a device would not be worth TiVo's time. The whole point is they are going to use the new streaming technology (MRS) to the device and let the device handle outputting to all sorts of possible devices in the future.

[Series3Sub]

Interesting lack of comparison. Most of those are an exaggeration at best.

Requires extra paid subscription? Sure, but the cable company's cost money as well. Is it really a complaint about another bill (which is avoidable with lifetime).

QWERTY remote is extra? This one is definitely way off base, as no other device even has this as an option.

The other two are iffy as cons.

In Tivo's current position, the comment that Tivo may go in the next 25 months (payback period for lifetime) is laughable. Clearly the reviewer was out of touch with reality.

Now that said, they missed the three biggest cons that may make the 2.5 rating valid. 1. Isn't worth the premium cost. or 2. Have to give up standard cable features (VOD etc). 3. It doesn't just work out of the box (not really Tivo's fault on that one though).

"Requires extra paid subscription" is an absolutely correct phrase and negative critique as the Elite cannot tune to ATSC OTA channel, and that is what the reviewers are referring to. If it could offer OTA capability, there would be no "extra" fee required to enjoy the benefits of an extremely expensive device. I would have bought an Elite had it had OTA. TiVo lost my big bucks. Sorry.

[aaronwt]

"Requires extra paid subscription" is an absolutely correct phrase and negative critique as the Elite cannot tune to ATSC OTA channel, and that is what the reviewers are referring to. If it could offer OTA capability, there would be no "extra" fee required to enjoy the benefits of an extremely expensive device. I would have bought an Elite had it had OTA. TiVo lost my big bucks. Sorry.

But then it would be wasting tuners and have an inflated cost for people that use it for OTA only. If they are going to do OTA at all with a four tuner box then they should have an OTA only version and a cable only version. And anyone that needs both can use a two tuner box. That way it keeps the power usage down as well as the cost.

I have no problems with my Elite only have cable tuners. I have three other Premieres with OTA tuners so I can always use them if my FiOS TV service ever goes down.

[Rkkeller]

One BIG thing not mentioned unless I missed it in the review is the TiVo accuracy with SP's compared to other devices. You can have all the bells and whistles you want in products but if they don't perform then what good are they.

I don't miss the days babysitting the DVR's offered by Verizon and Comcast or the R-10 or whatever it was with DirecTV in the past.

[gonzotek]

TiVo is not going to allow high-res digital video push to any device that is not strictly controlled. If they did, they will likely go against their deal with CableLabs and lose their ability to use cable cards and perhaps even Netflix/Amazon. The content owners are beyond crazy/paranoid about content theft. So DRM is there to make all the legit people suffer greatly, while the non-legit people just download the stuff right off torrents and do whatever they want.Roku is at least as locked down as an iPad(hardware crypto chip sandboxes each channel's code, they place restrictive flags on the HDMI output, there is no on-board storage or ability for channels to copy incoming video bits to another network location, and so on). If (and it's a big IF) TiVo wants to do a Roku channel, they'll have more-or-less the same level of policy obstructions as an iPad or other tablet app. If their agreements with CableLabs (et al) allows them to send the content to an iPad, I don't see any (non-technical) reason they would be prevented from doing it with a Roku.

They may not want to enable the functionality for other reasons (Roku's founder, Anthony Wood, was also ReplayTV's founder, for example).

[davezatz]

Roku is at least as locked down as an iPad(hardware crypto chip sandboxes each channel's code, they place restrictive flags on the HDMI output, there is no on-board storage or ability for channels to copy incoming video bits to another network location, and so on). If (and it's a big IF) TiVo wants to do a Roku channel, they'll have more-or-less the same level of policy obstructions as an iPad or other tablet app. If their agreements with CableLabs (et al) allows them to send the content to an iPad, I don't see any (non-technical) reason they would be prevented from doing it with a Roku.

Depends what sort of protections CableLabs requires and if they can be implemented on Roku without Roku's help. I doubt the built-in controls meet whatever spec has been agreed upon. Not that Roku is any less secure, it's just not the type of implementation required. Wish I knew more about how El Gato constructed their HDHomeRun Prime iPad app to be compliant.

From a purely business perspective, I doubt TiVo would want to create a Roku channel. They'd rather sell their own extenders or DVRs. Whereas mobile is a different category entirely.

[davezatz]

One BIG thing not mentioned unless I missed it in the review is the TiVo accuracy with SP's compared to other devices. I don't miss the days babysitting the DVR's offered by Verizon and Comcast or the R-10 or whatever it was with DirecTV in the past.

And therein lies the crux of the review? TiVo may be the best DVR, but it may not be the best cable set-top? I'm guessing On Demand access trumps lesser guide data and the occasional botched recording given the additional complexity and perceived surcharge.

[rainwater]

From a purely business perspective, I doubt TiVo would want to create a Roku channel. They'd rather sell their own extenders or DVRs. Whereas mobile is a different category entirely.

Clearly there will be some type of authentication, but I can't imagine the protocol will not be able to be hacked so you could watch on a PC or other device. While CableLabs may not allow TiVo to stream except to certain devices, I think the hacking community will find a way around the authentication. It will certainly be streaming something the iPad can decode in hardware (a mpeg-4 variant), so it shouldn't be hard to get working on other devices.