Homeland S01E08 Achilles Heel OAD 11/20/11 ***spoilers***

[netringer]

Wow, again!

OK, now we know. Brody had us all fooled. Brody was fooled.

Why would Walker still have a mission with the house perch blown?

Didn't Mrs. Gates suddenly lose her really awful southern accent?

[astrohip]

Wow, again!
Wow +1.

Every week this show gets better. I love the cast, love the writing.

[Kamakzie]

Wow +2! Awesome stuff..

[ClutchBrake]

Holy crapballs!

I don't even know where to begin on this one. This show is incredible.

[DreadPirateRob]

I so did not expect to see Brody in that chair in the end.

[DevdogAZ]

Based on some things I'd seen on Twitter before I watched, I knew there would be some surprise twist at the end of the episode, but even still, I did not expect to see Brody sitting there.

[stellie93]

There are some shows where the personal drama part is boring and takes away from the main plot (walking dead, terra nova), but with this show all that stuff is just as gripping as the terrorist stuff because the writing and acting are so good.

So rather than Carrie sleeping with Brody as her job (or in addition to that) maybe he's sleeping with her as part of his job. She's going to end up telling him things she shouldn't.

I'm thinking you don't just quit Al Qaeda.

[tiams]

Was Saul sleeping on the floor fully clothed so that he wouldn't oversleep and miss driving his wife to the airport? Or were we supposed to recall the image of Brody sleeping on the bedroom floor? Or was Saul awake and just sitting there watching his wife sleep?

[netringer]

Smak wins the Homeland psychic award:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8811207#post8811207

[netringer]

...I'm thinking you don't just quit Al Qaeda.

Yep. This Al Qaida cell had no problem murdering a woman, shooting up a motel and planting a bomb in farm house.

We better hope Brody is tough. His family is his Achilles Heel.

[john4200]

OK, now we know. Brody had us all fooled. Brody was fooled.


Not "all". I predicted Brody was dirty (in addition to Walker) last week. I remember a person or two agreeing with me in last week's thread.

But I do have to take back my comment from last week that Carrie was doing some good spy work. She is a fool. Not telling Saul earlier that she slept with Brody and therefore letting everyone know that Brody can beat a polygraph. And now not telling anyone that Brody claimed to have killed Walker. Telling Saul NOW that she slept with Brody, but not bringing up the fact that Brody lied about it during his polygraph test. Carrie is a terrible spy.

Walker's wife is a moron. Carrie even explained to her that Walker has not done anything wrong yet, and they just want to prevent him from doing anything. And still the fool warns Walker to run.

I did not recognize the guy who gave the storage unit key to Walker, and who Brody later beat up. Has that guy appeared on the show before?

[john4200]

Smak wins the Homeland psychic award:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8811207#post8811207

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8808865#post8808865

[netringer]

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8808865#post8808865

john4200 wins the Homeland psychic award.

[john4200]

john4200 wins the Homeland psychic award.

:cool:

[Hcour]

But I do have to take back my comment from last week that Carrie was doing some good spy work. She is a fool. Not telling Saul earlier that she slept with Brody and therefore letting everyone know that Brody can beat a polygraph. And now not telling anyone that Brody claimed to have killed Walker. Telling Saul NOW that she slept with Brody, but not bringing up the fact that Brody lied about it during his polygraph test. Carrie is a terrible spy.

I think that's pretty much the point of her character. Carrie has seriously conflicting feelings regarding Brody, she certainly cares for him a great deal, so I'm not surprised she chose to protect him instead of revealing the info about him killing Walker and I find it completely consistent with the way her character has behaved so far. Which is to say, she's behaved inconsistently and certainly not always in her best interest nor the best interest of her cause. She's a complex, flawed, interesting character.

[Rob Helmerichs]

And, of course, she's also insane.

Literally.

[brebeans]

And, of course, she's also insane.

Literally.

Not really. The drug she's taking, Klonopin, is primarily, for anti-anxiety. They also referenced bipolar ...so perhaps she's dealing with some of that.
"Insane", however, is a bit of an overstatement. That drug is not an anti-psychotic. Her buddy may have mentioned that in the first episode, but he wrong wrong.

I think Carrie is complex and has begun to have feelings for Brody and she has those feelings conflicted with her fears of getting canned by Saul.

Why is it that when men make stupid decisions based on sex, people don't make sweeping statements, like "he's a terrible....(fill in the blank)"?. They may he did something stupid, "error in judgment", etc. Carrie is not a terrible spy, she seems to be making some stupid decisions. However, the way this show takes some twists and turns, who knows what the "method to her madness :-) might be?

[Bob Coxner]

We still have the missing mole in the CIA. The one who warned Faisal and Aileen. No one seems to be too worried about that.

[pendragn]

Another great episode, wow.

tk

[john4200]

Why is it that when men make stupid decisions based on sex, people don't make sweeping statements, like "he's a terrible....(fill in the blank)"?. They may he did something stupid, "error in judgment", etc. Carrie is not a terrible spy, she seems to be making some stupid decisions.

Carrie is a terrible spy because she is making a lot of stupid decisions. Good spies do not make stupid decisions. It does not matter whether they are male or female.

[tiassa]

I don't think there is a "mole in the CIA" -- someone could be watching Fisal (especially since he was at best lukewarm about the plot) and picked up Carrie's tail especially since they weren't being extremely covert about tailing him.

OTOH I think that Walker was either a back up for Brody or "a sleeper to be activated later" (maybe when Brody gets elected to Congress), but that Carrie's finding out that "A POW had been turned" caused AQ to bring him over to deflect the attention from Brody. I'd really give the producers props if they themselves dispatch the "Marine 1" plot as we did (POTUS wouldn't likely be near NAS Anacostia, wo what could a sniper do?)

(and in a side note am I the only one that noted Walker's name is "Tommy Walker"http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tommy_%28album%29)

Also did anyone else note the similarity between "Dick Johnson" (the disgraced VA congressman they want Brody to replace) and the real life Anthony Weiner scandal, Weiner's downfall seemed to be too recent to be actually written into the script (or they did a quick insert/rewrite)

[RGM1138]

Also did anyone else note the similarity between "Dick Johnson" (the disgraced VA congressman they want Brody to replace) and the real life Anthony Weiner scandal, Weiner's downfall seemed to be too recent to be actually written into the script (or they did a quick insert/rewrite)

That was too spot on to be a coincidence. Weiner resigned in June, so there would have been plenty of time to rip that incident from the headlines.

[DevdogAZ]

Also did anyone else note the similarity between "Dick Johnson" (the disgraced VA congressman they want Brody to replace) and the real life Anthony Weiner scandal, Weiner's downfall seemed to be too recent to be actually written into the script (or they did a quick insert/rewrite)
I think it was clearly a nod to the Wiener scandal, complete with a congressman whose name is a euphemism for the male anatomy.

[Rob Helmerichs]

I think it was clearly a nod to the Wiener scandal, complete with a congressman whose name is a euphemism for the male anatomy.
And an actor who resembled Weiner.

(Whose name should, incidentally, be pronounced "Whiner," at least in proper German.)

[DevdogAZ]

And an actor who resembled Weiner.

(Whose name should, incidentally, be pronounced "Whiner," at least in proper German.)
Agreed. I have no idea why someone with that name wouldn't insist on it being pronounced "properly." Weiner and Wiener are pronounced differently in German and should be here as well.

[Unbeliever]

It's a contemporary addition. They even mentioned Whitey Bulger's capture when they were needling the FBI. Bulger was caught in June.

--Carlos V.

[AeneaGames]

Not really. The drug she's taking, Klonopin, is primarily, for anti-anxiety. They also referenced bipolar ...so perhaps she's dealing with some of that.


Actually she is taking Clozapine which is an anti-psychotic drug and a mood-stabilizer for bipolar disorder.....

[netringer]

I don't think there is a "mole in the CIA" -- someone could be watching Fisal (especially since he was at best lukewarm about the plot) and picked up Carrie's tail especially since they weren't being extremely covert about tailing him.


Yeah. We haven't seen any evidence that AQ has inside information. If they did, they would have warned Brody that he was being watched. (I guess they could have!)

It just occurred to me that the mirror on the blue sedan they show outside of the booby-trapped farm house could have been Brody's Buick. As far as what we've seen he couldn't have been there.

I guess everybody has a blue sedan.

THAT guy is probably who called and it isn't the diplomat.

OTOH I think that Walker was either a back up for Brody or "a sleeper to be activated later" (maybe when Brody gets elected to Congress), but that Carrie's finding out that "A POW had been turned" caused AQ to bring him over to deflect the attention from Brody. I'd really give the producers props if they themselves dispatch the "Marine 1" plot as we did (POTUS wouldn't likely be near NAS Anacostia, wo what could a sniper do?)


After 9/11 we would hope that the DHS, CIA and FBI would brief the Secret Service and hit POTUS over the head to pay attention to the risk.

In the preview Walker is shooting prone from a field of weeds.

Even John Reid in Person of Interest needed a spotter. Maybe Sgt. Brody is supposed to do his spotter duty for Walker - now that he knows Walker is alive.

...Also did anyone else note the similarity between "Dick Johnson" (the disgraced VA congressman they want Brody to replace) and the real life Anthony Weiner scandal, Weiner's downfall seemed to be too recent to be actually written into the script (or they did a quick insert/rewrite)

Yeah. That was the point. Wiener=Dick Johnson.

There is a Dick Johnson TV newsguy in Chicago who was paired on the morning news with Ellie Pai-Hong. Yep. Dick Johnson and Ellie Pie Hole.

You'd think he'd use Richard Johnson.

[tiassa]

It's a contemporary addition. They even mentioned Whitey Bulger's capture when they were needling the FBI. Bulger was caught in June.

--Carlos V.

Yeah, but the Bulger lnie can be added as almost a throw-away, the Weiner scandal is a semi-major plot point

[atrac]

I love that I had no idea about the ending and that I just scraped my jaw off of the floor. :)

And four more episodes to go too! THIS is how to develop a story properly!!!!

[mooseAndSquirrel]

Yeah. We haven't seen any evidence that AQ has inside information. If they did, they would have warned Brody that he was being watched. (I guess they could have!)

It just occurred to me that the mirror on the blue sedan they show outside of the booby-trapped farm house could have been Brody's Buick. As far as what we've seen he couldn't have been there.

I guess everybody has a blue sedan.

THAT guy is probably who called and it isn't the diplomat.



After 9/11 we would hope that the DHS, CIA and FBI would brief the Secret Service and hit POTUS over the head to pay attention to the risk.

In the preview Walker is shooting prone from a field of weeds.

Even John Reid in Person of Interest needed a spotter. Maybe Sgt. Brody is supposed to do his spotter duty for Walker - now that he knows Walker is alive.



Yeah. That was the point. Wiener=Dick Johnson.

There is a Dick Johnson TV newsguy in Chicago who was paired on the morning news with Ellie Pai-Hong. Yep. Dick Johnson and Ellie Pie Hole.

You'd think he'd use Richard Johnson.
My wife knows a guy named Dick Toy.

[tiams]

Carrie's finding out that "A POW had been turned" caused AQ to bring him over to deflect the attention from Brody.

How would AQ know that Carrie was given the info that a POW was turned?

[brebeans]

Actually she is taking Clozapine which is an anti-psychotic drug and a mood-stabilizer for bipolar disorder.....

Hi:
Sorry, my mistake. I guess I 'remembered' the drug name incorrectly. However, if she is seriously schizophrenic and bipolar (for which Clozapine is prescribed) and taking the drugs as inconsistently as she does (and why doesn't she have a 'legit' prescription?), I find it hard to believe that she'd be as functional as she is.

Oh well, it is TV, but the nice thing about this show is that it pushes the envelope, but not too far beyond believability. Otherwise, I wouldn't enjoy it if things were totally implausible.

[RGM1138]

Hi:
Sorry, my mistake. I guess I 'remembered' the drug name incorrectly. However, if she is seriously schizophrenic and bipolar (for which Clozapine is prescribed) and taking the drugs as inconsistently as she does (and why doesn't she have a 'legit' prescription?), I find it hard to believe that she'd be as functional as she is.



Cuz if she had a legit prescript, it would probably be flagged and she would end up in a desk job, if not forced retirement. And, Dammit she needs to stop this terrorist(s)!

[AeneaGames]

Hi:
Sorry, my mistake. I guess I 'remembered' the drug name incorrectly. However, if she is seriously schizophrenic and bipolar (for which Clozapine is prescribed) and taking the drugs as inconsistently as she does (and why doesn't she have a 'legit' prescription?), I find it hard to believe that she'd be as functional as she is.

Oh well, it is TV, but the nice thing about this show is that it pushes the envelope, but not too far beyond believability. Otherwise, I wouldn't enjoy it if things were totally implausible.

I don't think she is schizophrenic but just bipolar and Clozapine is prescribed for just bipolar as well. It works as a mood stabilizer and also helps with the psychotic features of a manic episode...

It seriously is not wise though to be so inconsistent with them indeed, it might make the mood differences way more excessive and the way she's going, not much sleep, stress and all that, she is currently heading for a manic episode and if she has psychotic symptoms with them....................

[DLiquid]

Great episode. This show has been rock solid.

I was skeptical when they discovered that Brody was not a terrorist, since I thought not knowing was part of the show's intrigue, but now we see that he is, or was, at least to some extent. These are the kind of reveals I would expect at the end of a season, but here we're getting them one after another, and the show is just as intriguing as ever. Good stuff.

[tiassa]

How would AQ know that Carrie was given the info that a POW was turned?

They could have their sources inside the prison, or they could have heard some "chatter". I'm not saying that it has happened, or that we know that it has happened, I'm just guessing at a future plot point.

[snowjay]

So my step-dad turned me on to this show on Thanksgiving by watching two episodes... between yesterday and today I'm all caught up and all I can say is WOW! I was not expecting to see Brody in that chair at the end.

[smak]

Smak wins the Homeland psychic award:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8811207#post8811207

I don't think that was too difficult to figure out, because basically without this plot turn there isn't a show. I am pretty surprised that they did it so fast though. Which makes it much better since for those who thought it was going to happen, we were actually surprised.

-smak-

[Dawghows]

Cuz if she had a legit prescript, it would probably be flagged and she would end up in a desk job, if not forced retirement. And, Dammit she needs to stop this terrorist(s)!
This is actually my one complaint about the series. I feel like the show would be just as effective without Carrie having blatant psychological issues. Sure, it makes us question her judgment, but we already question everything about the show anyway. Giving her character a mental disorder just seems one unnecessary step too far, IMO.

Nevertheless, this show is outstanding. Just caught up on the last two episodes back-to-back last night. Two hours straight, but still not enough.

[john4200]

This is actually my one complaint about the series. I feel like the show would be just as effective without Carrie having blatant psychological issues. Sure, it makes us question her judgment, but we already question everything about the show anyway. Giving her character a mental disorder just seems one unnecessary step too far, IMO.


I think Carrie's problems are a plus for the show. It makes her more interesting to watch and speculate about.