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bryhamm
11-01-2011, 11:19 PM
Glad FX was not lost to DirecTV.

Things just keep unraveling for Clay. Gonna be a major blow out between he and Jax at some point.

Rob Helmerichs
11-01-2011, 11:31 PM
All these toxic lies buzzing around the club...sooner or later, there's going to be a 12-lie pile-up, and a lot of people are going to get hurt or killed.

Do we know who really killed Otto's old lady?

markz
11-01-2011, 11:43 PM
Didn't take Gemma long to figure out who killed Piney!

Loved Juice flipping put on the Sheriff!

Wow, next week looks like a great episode!

Kamakzie
11-02-2011, 01:42 AM
I think Georgie really did have Otto's old lady killed. He probably didn't do it himself but had someone do it for him.

dude44
11-02-2011, 02:40 AM
might be from left field. but i think ima killed ottos old lady.

Ment
11-02-2011, 06:13 AM
Fricken Clay..how he figures killing Tara now won't go back to him does not make any sense especially with Gemma extracting a promise to leave her be. It would have served the plot better for the call to have happened before the swingset scene. Course it sets up a hitman vs Jax confrontation but Tara will get shot at the minimum.

gossamer88
11-02-2011, 01:02 PM
I feel Gemma wants Tara gone and is using Clay to do her dirty work.

bryhamm
11-02-2011, 01:29 PM
I feel Gemma wants Tara gone and is using Clay to do her dirty work.

But then why would Gemma ask Clay not to harm her? Doesn't make sense to me.

gossamer88
11-02-2011, 01:51 PM
But then why would Gemma ask Clay not to harm her? Doesn't make sense to me.

Planting a seed.

Idearat
11-02-2011, 05:19 PM
The show cut off just as we saw Clay dialing. He could have been doing one of two things: Telling the hit man the time and place or waving him off. ( since we were told once started there was no way to call him off ).

Since the point was made about the killer being an independent contractor and no way to stop once started, I fully expected that's what we'd see eventually: The killer trying to do his job and someone else trying to stop it.

However, Clay was just told by Jemma that Tara was on her way to Oregon with the kids for a medical conference. This gave the impression Clay hadn't known the details yet. So if Clay wanted to have her hit out of town, he would have needed to know details before calling it in. No sense calling and saying you'll have time and place details later. He also didn't know Jax would be going along at this point. ( Tara hadn't known, so she couldn't have told Jemma ). Also, would Clay have her killed while away alone with the kids with her?

Since Jax is going and Clay and Jemma don't know about it thus far, it sounds like a good setup for the hitman to make the attempt while out of town.

Based on what we've seen, if hit is given the go ahead, the hitman would have to hang out and watch her, follow her out of town and do it somewhere once she's gone a ways from Charming. Unless Clay wants the kids gone too he'd have to give instructions not to just shoot her in the car while driving.

Clay might be able to make up with Jemma if Tara were killed or an attempt made, but risking the grandkids and/or Jax doesn't sound like a forgivable office. If she thinks Clay put them at risk she'd probably kill him.

Kamakzie
11-02-2011, 05:22 PM
The phone was to only be used to set up the hit not to call it off. If he hadn't used the phone then no harm no foul. He could have destroyed the phone. Clay was also told once the wheels were put in motion nothing could be done to stop it.

cheesesteak
11-02-2011, 06:05 PM
Clay did say that *he* wouldn't hurt Tara.

If I were Juice I'd tell the club everything I saw on that wall. Of course, the club is so deep in the doo-doo that it might not matter.

I guess some hospitals don't do background checks on potential doctors. "She's involved with and is the baby-mama of the VP of a ruthless, murdering, gun running, outlaw motorcycle gang? Sure, sign her up!"

Rob Helmerichs
11-02-2011, 07:08 PM
Clay did say that *he* wouldn't hurt Tara.
If Gemma couldn't read the massive loophole in his promise, she is pretty delusional.

Then again, she has always been an awesome blend of hardheaded pragmatism and self-delusion...

jschuur
11-02-2011, 09:21 PM
If Gemma couldn't read the massive loophole in his promise, she is pretty delusional.

Then again, she has always been an awesome blend of hardheaded pragmatism and self-delusion...

_I_ won't hold that against her.

Rob Helmerichs
11-02-2011, 11:09 PM
_I_ won't hold that against her.
You wouldn't dare. She could have you killed.

Linnemir
11-02-2011, 11:59 PM
The show cut off just as we saw Clay dialing. He could have been doing one of two things: Telling the hit man the time and place or waving him off. ( since we were told once started there was no way to call him off ).

Since the point was made about the killer being an independent contractor and no way to stop once started, I fully expected that's what we'd see eventually: The killer trying to do his job and someone else trying to stop it.

However, Clay was just told by Jemma that Tara was on her way to Oregon with the kids for a medical conference. This gave the impression Clay hadn't known the details yet. So if Clay wanted to have her hit out of town, he would have needed to know details before calling it in. No sense calling and saying you'll have time and place details later. He also didn't know Jax would be going along at this point. ( Tara hadn't known, so she couldn't have told Jemma ). Also, would Clay have her killed while away alone with the kids with her?

Since Jax is going and Clay and Jemma don't know about it thus far, it sounds like a good setup for the hitman to make the attempt while out of town.

Based on what we've seen, if hit is given the go ahead, the hitman would have to hang out and watch her, follow her out of town and do it somewhere once she's gone a ways from Charming. Unless Clay wants the kids gone too he'd have to give instructions not to just shoot her in the car while driving.

Clay might be able to make up with Jemma if Tara were killed or an attempt made, but risking the grandkids and/or Jax doesn't sound like a forgivable office. If she thinks Clay put them at risk she'd probably kill him.

If I remember correctly, Gemma did not mention the kids going - only Tara.

BUT - and this is a big but - Just as I do not believe that Unser believed Gemma (he 'chose' to believe her), I do not believe that Gemma believed Clay. She knew that he was lying thru his teeth, but wouldn't admit it to herself. I know she said all the right words, but something about their delivery did not strike me as sincere. I simply don't know what her game is ... or I'm just overly suspicious!

Rob Helmerichs
11-03-2011, 07:57 AM
Yeah, there's a lot of confusion going on about Tara, some of it willful (i.e., people allowing themselves to accept things that deep down they know aren't true). When the attempted hit goes down, there's gonna be a ton of blow-back in several directions, I think!

HomieG
11-03-2011, 10:07 AM
And that was quite a friendly kiss between Gemma and Wayne...

Mr. Soze
11-03-2011, 10:29 AM
The phone was to only be used to set up the hit not to call it off. If he hadn't used the phone then no harm no foul. He could have destroyed the phone. Clay was also told once the wheels were put in motion nothing could be done to stop it.Right. Mrs. S. thought he was calling it off, but why try and call off what hasn't been put on?

That was some badass weapon the Los Lobos guy had! Keep the AK's, I want that!!

Mr. Soze
11-03-2011, 10:31 AM
And that was quite a friendly kiss between Gemma and Wayne...I thought it was either mean (****teasing), or planting the idea in Wayne's head that if he killed Clay he'd have a shot with Gemma. She does nothing by chance.

Ment
11-03-2011, 12:34 PM
I thought it was either mean (****teasing), or planting the idea in Wayne's head that if he killed Clay he'd have a shot with Gemma. She does nothing by chance.

Definitely calculated. She knows she has a hold on both Unser and Tig and willing to use her wiles to get what she wants.

EvilMidniteBombr
11-03-2011, 10:41 PM
All these toxic lies buzzing around the club...sooner or later, there's going to be a 12-lie pile-up, and a lot of people are going to get hurt or killed.

Do we know who really killed Otto's old lady?
For some reason I think it was the white supremacists that had kidnapped Gemma. But I could totally be wrong. Didn't they run her off the road or something?

EvilMidniteBombr
11-03-2011, 11:15 PM
Oops. After a little research, it doesn't seem clear who actually killed Luanne (Otto's wife). According to the synopsis on IMDB for Season 2 Episode 8 "Potlatch"

Hale appears in the open doorway, somber.

He walks in and tells them they just found a body beaten to death: Luanne.

mrdazzo7
11-04-2011, 07:27 PM
Another great episode...

the only storyline I wasn't into this season was the Juice thing but that's only because I felt it was "just another mole storyline", but I'm over that... I love the direction it's going in and while it's still a "mole" story, it's not just a rehash... Tons of character devolopment, lots of potential twists, etc. He's in a bad spot now because he can refuse to cooperate and go back to jail but it's almost past that now-- Potter is way too far into the process and Juice sees cooperating as a way of actually saving the club instead of hurting it, whereas if he manned up and went jail, they'd all go down. The actor who plays Juice looks like he definitely has some kind of heath problems though--he looks horrible.

This season absolutely has to end with Clay's death. I can see the club supporting him after the cartel thing blew up because A: they voted it in, and B: he maybe didn't know how bad it would get, but his actions are so far past that now. Every single move he makes puts them in more danger on all levels. Even that may be forgivable, but he's also blatently disregarding any sense of loyalty to anyone. He killed a First Nine member with no problem, lied to Otto (another decades-long friend) about avenging his wife's death, told Gemma he'd back off Tara and then still placed the call knowing that **** was calm... Plus with four episodes left who knows how many more lives will be lost/alliances destroyed. I f'in loved the scene with him and Jax though. When that blows up, it's gonna blow up big.

Gemma telling Clay about Tara going to Oregon was annoying... I think a better way for that scene to have played out would be for them to have that whole conversation where it seems things are OK now and then the camera pans over to show the phone (no tape) in the garbabe, like Clay already set it in motion. I guess they needed the part where Gemma basically draws him a map of her route, but still... Now it's not even about protection, it's that clay is a sociopathic serial killer.

I like that the way they're bringing Otto into the fold. It's a testament to Kurt Sutter's writing--you can see that this stuff has been planned since season two when Luanne was killed. Bobby has an affair with Luanne in season 2 then she's murdered, but we never know who did it and it kind of gets dropped. But now it's gonna factor in big time to how the rest of this plays out.

Rob Helmerichs
11-04-2011, 08:06 PM
I like that the way they're bringing Otto into the fold. It's a testament to Kurt Sutter's writing--you can see that this stuff has been planned since season two when Luanne was killed. Bobby has an affair with Luanne in season 2 then she's murdered, but we never know who did it and it kind of gets dropped. But now it's gonna factor in big time to how the rest of this plays out.
Well, I don't see it that way at all...I see Sutter picking up old dangling threads, not executing an old master plan.

But either way, he's doing a great job!

Idearat
11-05-2011, 02:08 AM
...lied to Otto (another decades-long friend) about avenging his wife's death

Didn't Bobby tell Otto about killing Luann's killer? Clay might have bee in on that, but I thought it was Bobby who went to the prison to tell Otto.

Kamakzie
11-05-2011, 10:04 AM
Didn't Bobby tell Otto about killing Luann's killer? Clay might have bee in on that, but I thought it was Bobby who went to the prison to tell Otto.

Yep..

EvilMidniteBombr
11-05-2011, 06:41 PM
Bobbie was going to ventilate Georgie's cranium but Clay (or Jax?) stopped him because Georgie's connections could help them squash Hale's land grab. Then didn't Clay tell Bobby to lie to Otto? Or maybe I'm not remembering it right?

JLucPicard
11-07-2011, 02:36 AM
I guess some hospitals don't do background checks on potential doctors. "She's involved with and is the baby-mama of the VP of a ruthless, murdering, gun running, outlaw motorcycle gang? Sure, sign her up!"
When Tara started at the hospital, Jax was with Able's momma (sorta). She didn't become Jax's old lady until long after she was hired.

cheesesteak
11-07-2011, 08:40 AM
When Tara started at the hospital, Jax was with Able's momma (sorta). She didn't become Jax's old lady until long after she was hired.
I was talking about the new hospital in Oregon that's interested in her. And no, I don't really believe they'd do that level of investigation.

cheesesteak
11-07-2011, 08:42 AM
Bobbie was going to ventilate Georgie's cranium but Clay (or Jax?) stopped him because Georgie's connections could help them squash Hale's land grab. Then didn't Clay tell Bobby to lie to Otto? Or maybe I'm not remembering it right?
It seemed to me that Bobby decided to lie to Otto on the fly. Clay told Bobby to say that they'd kill Georgie after they used him financially.

Rob Helmerichs
11-07-2011, 09:34 AM
I was talking about the new hospital in Oregon that's interested in her. And no, I don't really believe they'd do that level of investigation.
I'm not sure what would show up...she's never been arrested, and AFAIK there's nothing in the public record, or probably in her employment record (her boss is obviously sympathetic to her position) to indicate that she's a motorcycle mama involved in gun-running, drugs, and murder.

JLucPicard
11-07-2011, 04:12 PM
I was talking about the new hospital in Oregon that's interested in her. And no, I don't really believe they'd do that level of investigation.
Doh - that's what I get for reading in the wee hours of the morning. :o

EvilMidniteBombr
11-07-2011, 09:46 PM
It seemed to me that Bobby decided to lie to Otto on the fly. Clay told Bobby to say that they'd kill Georgie after they used him financially.
You are probably right. I don't remember exactly how it all played out.

TIVO_GUY_HERE
11-08-2011, 10:51 AM
Futon Critic is saying FX has ordered a 14th episode to this current season... :)

Rob Helmerichs
11-08-2011, 11:41 AM
Futon Critic is saying FX has ordered a 14th episode to this current season... :)
Strange (since the season has almost certainly been completely filmed already), but welcome!

Unless this is to wrap things up... :(

Mr. Soze
11-08-2011, 11:48 AM
Strange (since the season has almost certainly been completely filmed already), but welcome!

Unless this is to wrap things up... :(That would be bad. :(

markz
11-08-2011, 11:50 AM
Strange (since the season has almost certainly been completely filmed already), but welcome!

Unless this is to wrap things up... :(

I read yesterday, but forget where, that the show runner asked for a 14th episode to wrap up some things. The show has already been renewed for next year.

ETA:

Here it is:

http://www.tvline.com/2011/11/sons-of-anarchy-season-4-extended/#more-268118

“[Series creator] Kurt [Sutter] asked us to consider adding an extra episode to fully close this current chapter of the Sons saga. By adding the extra episode, it wraps up a magnificent season in extraordinary fashion. This is a real bonus for fans of the series.”

Mr. Soze
11-08-2011, 12:00 PM
I read yesterday, but forget where, that the show runner asked for a 14th episode to wrap up some things. The show has already been renewed for next year.

ETA:

Here it is:

http://www.tvline.com/2011/11/sons-of-anarchy-season-4-extended/#more-268118
Phew! ;)

phox_mulder
11-08-2011, 01:52 PM
Strange (since the season has almost certainly been completely filmed already), but welcome!

Unless this is to wrap things up... :(

Everything has been shot, editing and post production is being wrapped up on the final episodes.

Sutter hinted that he was trying to get FX to allow a 90 minute or even 2 hour final episode of the season.

My guess is FX wouldn't allow it, but compromised and let him make the final episode a 2 parter, thus 14 instead of 13.


phox

photoshopgrl
11-20-2011, 11:46 AM
Okay I'm just getting all caught up on this show. I had gotten so far behind and now catching up I'm yelling at myself for doing so. This season is effing amazing.

Clay will get his comeuppance. He has to. No way he can outright kill Tara after that conversation with Gemma and her not know it was him no matter how it plays out. I cannot imagine if this goes down and Jax and the kids are with her that she'll be able to get past it.

So at this point the people that might kill Clay by the end of the season are:
Unser
Gemma
Jax
Opie
and god knows who else.

I can't see how Sutter can get to another season with Clay alive. On to the next episode!!