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doom1701
10-31-2011, 09:26 AM
Haven't had a chance to watch this week's episodes yet. I will make one comment--it gets a little old that every "Klingon" episode seems to have a title with "Honor" or "Glory" or some other blatantly Klingon word in it.

Amnesia
10-31-2011, 10:02 AM
"Redemption"? "Birthright"? "Rightful Heir"? "Firstborn"?

doom1701
10-31-2011, 10:42 AM
"Redemption"? "Birthright"? "Rightful Heir"? "Firstborn"?

Those sound really Klingon to me, but maybe I just read to much into it. Would it have been so difficult to do a Klingon episode called "Basket full of kittens"?

gchance
10-31-2011, 10:44 AM
"All you care about is your HONOR!" - Alexander, "New Ground", S5E10

:)

Greg

Kamakzie
10-31-2011, 10:55 AM
"All you care about is your HONOR!" - Alexander, "New Ground", S5E10

:)

Greg

Boy the kid who played Alexander really went downhill in his adult years.. :(

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/bb/Thebonzzz.jpg/450px-Thebonzzz.jpg

doom1701
10-31-2011, 11:10 AM
I blame having Mallory Keaton as an older sister.

gchance
10-31-2011, 12:27 PM
Boy the kid who played Alexander really went downhill in his adult years.. :(

Yeah, he did. I just always remember how amazingly annoying he was in the promo for New Ground, which of course our local channel played every commercial break. I'll be watching Matters of Honor a little later today.

Greg

gchance
10-31-2011, 04:17 PM
OK, just watched the episode.

When it originally aired, it was significant because until that point in the Trek universe, all we really knew about Klingons were that they were the enemy. Heck, it took a while for many of us to accept Worf on the Big E at all.

Then this episode came along and gave us a bit of a glimpse into the Klingons, what they were about, why they were the way they were. I found it hilarious that although Worf is the only Klingon in Starfleet, they still have the capability to replicate Klingon cuisine that repulses Starfleet officers.

They did it again, too, rather than Riker & Picard training in the holodeck, there was a deck devoted to target practice.

Ah yes, in Starfleet, we follow the chain of command.

One big question: why is it that while most Klingons' teeth are so big they can barely speak, Worf doesn't have this problem? :-D

Good to see Brian Thompson from the X-Files.

Greg

kaszeta
10-31-2011, 04:24 PM
This was indeed a good first step on taking the Klingons and converting them from bad enemy caricatures into an actual, fleshed-out concept.

Still caricatures, but starting to make it a bit better.

Worf
11-01-2011, 01:15 AM
One big question: why is it that while most Klingons' teeth are so big they can barely speak, Worf doesn't have this problem? :-D


Didn't that question come up in a later TNG? Something about fang sharpeners rings a bell. (Perhaps I should break out my DVD sets. It's about time to join in this rewatching).

Then again, as the seasons progress into DS9, the teeth get more managable. I guess they have teeth clippers or something.

And I suppose the next comment in this thread would be about my nick :)

ThePennyDropped
11-01-2011, 10:25 AM
Didn't that question come up in a later TNG? Something about fang sharpeners rings a bell.
I think the tooth sharpeners may have been for a Ferengi, and perhaps on DS9.

Kamakzie
11-01-2011, 10:53 AM
I think the tooth sharpeners may have been for a Ferengi, and perhaps on DS9.

Worf bought it from Nog during his sale of his childhood possessions before he went off to Starfleet.

gchance
11-01-2011, 10:56 AM
Heh.

http://memory-beta.wikia.com/wiki/Tooth_sharpener

Greg

doom1701
11-04-2011, 09:26 PM
OK, first comment while the episode is still playing...this would have been a LOT better if they would have left the fish face subplot by the wayside. The "Riker as a Klingon Officer" plot is actually quite good. The "it's a trap" guy subplot just feels weak.

OK, finished now. Have I mentioned yet that I think Riker is one of the best characters in Star Trek? He's extremely versatile--it makes perfect sense to stick him on a Klingon vessel (or give him a fake alien parasite tail in his neck, or alter his face and let him have sex with Mrs. Frasier...wait, getting ahead of myself by a couple of seasons). If I ignore the fish face guy in this one, it was really very, very good. Riker was perfect as part of the Klingon crew, and the writer seemed to know how to make it work.

I really liked the Klingon Mess scene, including all the sex talk. Again, I don't think any other character *but* Riker could have been part of that. He was Klingon and human at the same time, giving the audience a lot of insight into a culture that was always just "bad" before.

I do have to echo Greg's comment about the teeth, though--every Klingon sounded like they were about ready to spit a giant wad of tobacco or something. I'm glad Michael Dorn didn't have to worry about that.

LoadStar
11-04-2011, 10:33 PM
In the same vein as the fencing arena, this episode featured yet another possible waste of space, the phaser range. Yes, useful as a training tool... but something that could easily be done in the holodeck.

After Riker kept ordering all those really bizarre Klingon dishes, I was sort of half expecting them to be serving something completely mundane on the Klingon vessel, something like the equivalent of burgers and fries... and when Riker asks about the dishes he was practicing eating on the Enterprise, they would respond, "What, we don't eat that stuff either!"

I guess the producers thought "Hey, Wesley and Mordock had some good chemistry in 'Coming of Age,' let's do it again!" Unfortunately, whatever they had the first time, in this episode that whole bit fell utterly flat. Wesley seemed jammed into the episode, and the plot line with Mendon felt rather annoying and kind of boring to me.

Have I mentioned yet that I think Riker is one of the best characters in Star Trek? He's extremely versatile--it makes perfect sense to stick him on a Klingon vessel (or give him a fake alien parasite tail in his neck, or alter his face and let him have sex with Mrs. Frasier...wait, getting ahead of myself by a couple of seasons). If I ignore the fish face guy in this one, it was really very, very good. Riker was perfect as part of the Klingon crew, and the writer seemed to know how to make it work.

I really liked the Klingon Mess scene, including all the sex talk. Again, I don't think any other character *but* Riker could have been part of that. He was Klingon and human at the same time, giving the audience a lot of insight into a culture that was always just "bad" before.

Correction, *Bearded* Riker is one of the best characters in Star Trek. His character before the show started was envisioned as being one part Will Decker, one part Kirk... and no parts Riker. It wasn't until he grew the beard in season 2 that he really became his own character.

DVC California
11-04-2011, 11:38 PM
Correction, *Bearded* Riker is one of the best characters in Star Trek. His character before the show started was envisioned as being one part Will Decker, one part Kirk... and no parts Riker. It wasn't until he grew the beard in season 2 that he really became his own character.

+1 :up:

I think I vaguely remember that Season One Riker was meant to be a backup "Kirk" in case the audience would not accept a starship captain as old as Picard.

JYoung
11-05-2011, 02:21 PM
OK, first comment while the episode is still playing...this would have been a LOT better if they would have left the fish face subplot by the wayside. The "Riker as a Klingon Officer" plot is actually quite good. The "it's a trap" guy subplot just feels weak.


Obviously Mendon shoehorned in as the reason as to why they didn't notice the hull eating organism to begin with.

But it's a minor complaint in what I considered a stellar episode.

There's a well done main plot that hits all the right notes but there's also a number of little things that just add to the enjoyment of the episode.

Worf's scene with with Riker in the corridor.

O'Brien: "Aren't you afraid?"
Riker: "No."
O'Brien: "I would be."

When Captain Kargon pulls his disruptor on the Enterprise bridge, not only does Worf anticipate and stun him, Data steps in front of Picard to shield him.
(BTW, do you think that Klingon High Command had words with Kargon after this incident?)

And the mess hall scene is classic. It's fun to see the Klingons kind like a pirate ship mess.

Even Pulaski isn't irritating in the Ten Forward scene.

When I first saw this episode, I thought that it was a real turning point in the writing.

Boy, was I wrong.

JYoung
11-05-2011, 02:26 PM
I found it hilarious that although Worf is the only Klingon in Starfleet, they still have the capability to replicate Klingon cuisine that repulses Starfleet officers.


I don't find it that hard to believe.
Obviously the Enterprise computer has a massive data bank but does any organic crew member know everything that's inside it?

I mean, do you know everything that's on the Internet?

It's more that while the Enterprise computer has this data, it's not in the general knowledge of Starfleet personnel.