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View Full Version : White Collar "Dentist of Detroit" OAD 6/28/11


tiassa
06-29-2011, 01:56 PM
Lots of information on Mozzie's backstory, and a fun riff on "The Sting" with a nice "Twist on the Twist" ending.

HOWEVER . . .
If you are going to show Horse racing footage that is supposed to be from the US, can you at least use footage from a US racetrack? Not only does Finger Lakes (a real track in upstate NY) not have a grass course, but the horses finish left to right as opposed to the right to left that is common at most European tracks.

Steveknj
06-29-2011, 03:18 PM
Lots of information on Mozzie's backstory, and a fun riff on "The Sting" with a nice "Twist on the Twist" ending.

HOWEVER . . .
If you are going to show Horse racing footage that is supposed to be from the US, can you at least use footage from a US racetrack? Not only does Finger Lakes (a real track in upstate NY) not have a grass course, but the horses finish left to right as opposed to the right to left that is common at most European tracks.

Well I think 99% of the viewers probably don't know this. I certainly didn't.

I thought this was a fun episode and we finally learn why Mozzie is well, Mozzie. Loved that we find out where the name Mozzie comes from :)

tiassa
06-29-2011, 09:09 PM
Well I think 99% of the viewers probably don't know this. I certainly didn't.

I'm curious, did you look at that footage and say "OK that is a horse race" or did you think "there is something strange looking about that horse race?". All North American race tracks run counter-clockwise (except for one race per year at Calder) and so from the stands the horses run left to right. European tracks are more variable in that respect, but the majority of them run clockwise and the horses finish from right to left. That was something so easy to get right, and yet they got it so wrong. I'm willing to believe that if they had asked the "real" Finger Lakes would have given them some footage to use for the promotional benefit.

LoadStar
06-29-2011, 09:14 PM
I'm curious, did you look at that footage and say "OK that is a horse race" or did you think "there is something strange looking about that horse race?".

"That is a horse race." I didn't even pay close enough attention to realize that they provided a specific track name. Even now that you told us the difference, I doubt I would really process the difference in the context of a TV show.

astrohip
06-29-2011, 09:57 PM
Never gave it a second glance. It's a horse race; that's all I needed to know. But little about this show can stand up to a second glance.:)

Good episode, although buying that Mozzie was the DoD was a bit of a stretch.

cheesesteak
06-30-2011, 05:52 AM
I love Mozzie. He's my favorite character on this show but this episode was ridiculous.

They could only afford one or two minutes of Ernie Hudson?

markz
06-30-2011, 06:53 AM
I'm curious, did you look at that footage and say "OK that is a horse race" or did you think "there is something strange looking about that horse race?". All North American race tracks run counter-clockwise (except for one race per year at Calder) and so from the stands the horses run left to right. European tracks are more variable in that respect, but the majority of them run clockwise and the horses finish from right to left. That was something so easy to get right, and yet they got it so wrong. I'm willing to believe that if they had asked the "real" Finger Lakes would have given them some footage to use for the promotional benefit.

I think it is natural to pick out mistakes, especially if it is a subject you are familiar with.

I had one friend that hated seeing military movies with me and another friend because we'd pick out all the mistakes. (ie. he called him by the wrong rank, that's not the right unit patch, that is not a military haircut, etc,)

However, I didn't catch the race track mistake. I guess most American races are "drive/ride fast, turn left".

Steveknj
06-30-2011, 07:29 AM
I'm curious, did you look at that footage and say "OK that is a horse race" or did you think "there is something strange looking about that horse race?". All North American race tracks run counter-clockwise (except for one race per year at Calder) and so from the stands the horses run left to right. European tracks are more variable in that respect, but the majority of them run clockwise and the horses finish from right to left. That was something so easy to get right, and yet they got it so wrong. I'm willing to believe that if they had asked the "real" Finger Lakes would have given them some footage to use for the promotional benefit.

I looked at it like it was any horse race. I watch maybe 3 races a year (the Triple Crown) and maybe go to the track every 10 years or so. So to me, and I'm sure most people who don't follow horse racing, there was nothing strange about what they saw. Think of it this way. Say you don't follow baseball, and they show a game on TV and the uniforms are not authentic to the teams they are supposed to be. Think a non-baseball fan notices this? As a baseball fan, I'd notice, and I'd notice that the shot isn't even the two teams in question. Same deal here, you would have to follow horse racing to notice this.

Steveknj
06-30-2011, 07:31 AM
I love Mozzie. He's my favorite character on this show but this episode was ridiculous.

They could only afford one or two minutes of Ernie Hudson?

Did we NEED more than two minutes of Ernie Hudson? Where there ghosts that needed capturing or something? :D

tiassa
06-30-2011, 08:26 AM
I looked at it like it was any horse race. I watch maybe 3 races a year (the Triple Crown) and maybe go to the track every 10 years or so. So to me, and I'm sure most people who don't follow horse racing, there was nothing strange about what they saw. Think of it this way. Say you don't follow baseball, and they show a game on TV and the uniforms are not authentic to the teams they are supposed to be. Think a non-baseball fan notices this? As a baseball fan, I'd notice, and I'd notice that the shot isn't even the two teams in question. Same deal here, you would have to follow horse racing to notice this.

OK, I guess, but this is less like "uniforms not being authentic" and more like "Batter hits ball and runs to THIRD base". The grass vs dirt thing I can see people not getting.

Steveknj
06-30-2011, 08:31 AM
OK, I guess, but this is less like "uniforms not being authentic" and more like "Batter hits ball and runs to THIRD base". The grass vs dirt thing I can see people not getting.

True, but i guess if you don't follow baseball, you might not even notice that. (although maybe baseball is a bad analogy as most American youth have at least played it at some point in their lives and understand the rules....bet you asked 10 people on the street which direction horses run in a horse race, and probably half wouldn't know, and even if they did, they'd have to think about it :) )

cheesesteak
06-30-2011, 08:39 AM
Did we NEED more than two minutes of Ernie Hudson? Where there ghosts that needed capturing or something? :D
I would have cast some generic actor if he was only going to get two minutes of screen time. Ernie's probably not the most expensive actor in Hollywood but he's got to cost more than some dude from central casting.

lew
06-30-2011, 08:50 AM
I'm curious, did you look at that footage and say "OK that is a horse race" or did you think "there is something strange looking about that horse race?". All North American race tracks run counter-clockwise (except for one race per year at Calder) and so from the stands the horses run left to right. European tracks are more variable in that respect, but the majority of them run clockwise and the horses finish from right to left. That was something so easy to get right, and yet they got it so wrong. I'm willing to believe that if they had asked the "real" Finger Lakes would have given them some footage to use for the promotional benefit.

I'm sure they used whatever stock footage they already had in the "system". Probably not worth the time it would take to even make the phone call.

I'm with the posters who were happy to have background footage of a horse race and who don't care about authenticity.

I might agree with the posters if this was a movie. Cable original shows have lower budgets. My guess is they were able to edit in stock footage in less time then a phone call to the right person at Finger Lakes would take.

Shakhari
06-30-2011, 01:48 PM
Did we NEED more than two minutes of Ernie Hudson? Where there ghosts that needed capturing or something? :D

That's why he was going to the Statue of Liberty ;)

zordude
06-30-2011, 02:26 PM
bet you asked 10 people on the street which direction horses run in a horse race

Forwards!

:D

Amnesia
06-30-2011, 03:00 PM
Lots of information on Mozzie's backstory (...)If you ask me, way too much information on his backstory. Don't get me wrong, I found it interesting and all, but I can't see Mozzie really sharing all that about himself with the "suits". It would be one thing if all that came out in conversations with Neil, but his openness with the cops really seemed out of character...

...as was the way that Neil quickly told Peter that Mozzie was the dentist. Even if Neil was a little in shock because of the dentist's reputation, he is enough of a con man to be able to keep that to himself. It just was very much out of character for him to give up Mozzie like that, especially since as far as Neil knew, there were outstanding crimes for which Mozzie could still be prosecuted.

Steveknj
06-30-2011, 03:03 PM
If you ask me, way too much information on his backstory. Don't get me wrong, I found it interesting and all, but I can't see Mozzie really sharing all that about himself with the "suits". It would be one thing if all that came out in conversations with Neil, but his openness with the cops really seemed out of character...

...as was the way that Neil quickly told Peter that Mozzie was the dentist. Even if Neil was a little in shock because of the dentist's reputation, he is enough of a con man to be able to keep that to himself. It just was very much out of character for him to give up Mozzie like that, especially since as far as Neil knew, there were outstanding crimes for which Mozzie could still be prosecuted.

And that would mess up their plan to fence the Nazi art.

megory
07-02-2011, 06:05 AM
OMG this is getting WAY too complicated for me! Too many plots and subplots and -- well, it doesn't entertain me as it did in the past. When I want complexity, I'll read!

Jon J
07-02-2011, 08:21 AM
If you are going to show Horse racing footage that is supposed to be from the US, can you at least use footage from a US racetrack?That glitch struck me immediately. And, doesn't NY have off track betting? If so, the betting parlor thing struck me as odd.

LoadStar
07-02-2011, 03:49 PM
I hesitate to ask this, given how badly this topic has been handled in other threads.... but were we the only ones who noticed that Tiffani Theissen seems to have really gained some weight? It was particularly noticeable when they showed some clips featuring her in season 1, and there was a rather marked difference in appearance. My sister guessed that she may be pregnant, but I can't find any indication of that in my search.

Rob Helmerichs
07-02-2011, 04:25 PM
She was pregnant last year. (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Tiffani_Thiessen#Personal_life)

LoadStar
07-02-2011, 05:17 PM
She was pregnant last year. (https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/Tiffani_Thiessen#Personal_life)

Yeah, I saw that... hmm. How long ago were these episodes filmed?

betts4
07-02-2011, 09:35 PM
I enjoyed the episode and the backstory. Favorite line "Mozzie pulled a Ferrris Bueller"

Graymalkin
07-03-2011, 06:10 AM
I liked that his name, Mozzie, is based on Mozart the teddy bear.

tiassa
07-03-2011, 09:00 AM
That glitch struck me immediately. And, doesn't NY have off track betting? If so, the betting parlor thing struck me as odd.

Technically no, as NYC OTB went bankrupt and was shut down late last year. But I think the market for their scam parlor (and the one owned by the NY hood that they shut down) was for high rollers (note the $5K minimum bet) who wanted to avoid IRS Reporting and tax issues on their winnings.

I think we can all agree that this whole plot device is a little on the "thin" side

Agatha Mystery
07-05-2011, 12:34 AM
Yeah, I saw that... hmm. How long ago were these episodes filmed?

It takes a while to get back into shape. Some people never do. I think she looks fine.

LoadStar
07-05-2011, 01:50 AM
It takes a while to get back into shape. Some people never do. I think she looks fine.

Oh, I agree, she does look fine. I was just surprised at the marked difference in her appearance, that's all.

lew
07-05-2011, 08:10 AM
Oh, I agree, she does look fine. I was just surprised at the marked difference in her appearance, that's all.

Last season she was "out of town" for several episodes. Shown on a phone. Other episodes had almost no "long shots" They shot around her pregnancy.

This season they're not shooting around whatever weight gain remains from her pregnancy.

betts4
07-05-2011, 08:52 AM
I like this. Makes me feel that not every star on a show has to be whipcord thin model type to be attractive.

scooterboy
07-05-2011, 09:27 AM
I think she's just as attractive now than she was pre-pregnancy (and gorgeous in both cases).

Agatha Mystery
07-05-2011, 09:33 AM
Last season she was "out of town" for several episodes. Shown on a phone. Other episodes had almost no "long shots" They shot around her pregnancy.

This season they're not shooting around whatever weight gain remains from her pregnancy.

They did a lot of green screen filming with her last season. I have a feeling that some of the location shots weren't up yet, since they were trying to get her stuff in before the baby. It was obvious (and distracting) that they were doing green screen stuff, but I'm glad they just worked around her pregnancy instead of ignoring her.

holee
07-05-2011, 09:45 AM
I liked this episode, even with the logic jumps. I'm also liking how they're building up to the eventual fight between Peter + Neal.

What I would have liked though would be more Ernie Hudson time. It seemed like a shame to have him in for such a short segment.

scooterboy
07-05-2011, 01:44 PM
If only they could have contrived a plot point so that Ernie could have used his best line from Ghostbusters:

V13CZnUCOaQ

DevdogAZ
07-06-2011, 11:33 AM
Just watched this last night. I thought the best part of the episode was when Peter was "firing" Neal because most of the stuff they said to each other during the fight was clearly their real feelings about each other, even down to Neal saying something about El at the end.

I watch horse racing on occasion, but I didn't even notice that the horses in the show were finishing right to left. I would have thought that was odd if I'd noticed, but I guess I wasn't paying much attention.

Yeah, I saw that... hmm. How long ago were these episodes filmed?
Maybe you should start a thread called "Tiffani Theesen fat" (misspelling intentional). ;)

DevdogAZ
07-06-2011, 11:34 AM
If only they could have contrived a plot point so that Ernie could have used his best line from Ghostbusters:
If this had been "Psych," I'm convinced they would have done something like that.

johnperkins21
07-06-2011, 02:29 PM
HOWEVER . . .
If you are going to show Horse racing footage that is supposed to be from the US, can you at least use footage from a US racetrack? Not only does Finger Lakes (a real track in upstate NY) not have a grass course, but the horses finish left to right as opposed to the right to left that is common at most European tracks.
I had a bigger problem with the fact that nobody stupid enough to fall for that scam would have access to that kind of cash. Why would he have trusted Neal to get him the results early? Wouldn't he have just sent a lackey to the track to text him the results, or can't you just access a web page on your phone to watch them live?

aaronw
07-07-2011, 12:59 PM
I never even thought about this until I read this thread, but I'm from the US (but dont' really see a lot of horse races), but it is so ingrained into me that the horses finish left to right, that if I saw them finishing right to left I would think something was really strange that I couldn't put my finger on it. And in fact, I do remember a shot where I think they were coming around the final turn from right to left, and I was like 'huh, that's a weird shot', but forgot about it in the end.