Does anyone hook up their Tivo to their PC & defrag the hard drive? [Text View]

SugarBowl

04-04-2011, 11:26 AM

Roddly

04-04-2011, 12:21 PM

Linux based file systems don't fragment enough to warrant a defrag. The most it would ever be fragmented is a fraction of a percent.

smbaker

04-04-2011, 01:44 PM

Jonathan_S

04-04-2011, 02:13 PM

I would only do this if I had absolutely nothing whatsoever better to do. As long as it records and plays video, the drive works fine as it is. You're just asking for trouble trying to fix something that isn't broken.

Also, as others have pointed out, it's Linux so you'd need a box that understood Linux filesystems to work on it. Also of question is whether or not the video partition is a standard filesystem or something special-purpose (been a long time since I did any HD upgrades).
The video portion is a special-purpose file system, that why you need disk upgrade tools written specifically for upgrading TiVo drives (WinMFS or the MFStools).

On the other hand, a partition full of multi gigabyte video files is unlikely to get badly fragmented.

kturcotte

04-04-2011, 02:18 PM

I can't imagine it would harm anything (As long as you boot into a Linux OS), but the performance you *MIGHT* gain (If any) wouldn't make it worthwhile.

crxssi

04-04-2011, 05:40 PM

The video portion is a special-purpose file system, that why you need disk upgrade tools written specifically for upgrading TiVo drives (WinMFS or the MFStools).

On the other hand, a partition full of multi gigabyte video files is unlikely to get badly fragmented.

Agreed. Plus the part that is not "special" is just a Linux filesystem, which doesn't suffer from performance issues like MS-Windows machines do.

There is really no merit in trying to "defrag" a TiVo. It would gain nothing and yet pose a huge potential failure risk.

tomhorsley

04-04-2011, 08:09 PM

Linux based file systems don't fragment enough to warrant a defrag. The most it would ever be fragmented is a fraction of a percent.

Complete linux myth, but the widespread belief that it is true is why there mostly aren't any linux defrag tools.

unitron

04-04-2011, 08:25 PM

I have'nt connected my Tivo to my laptop yet, but I'm guessing it should recognize it as an external hard drive(yeah,no?). Does anyone defrag their Tivo occasionally? If it's possible to do (although probably not necessary) it couldn't hurt, right ?

Do you mean that you haven't pulled the hard drive out of the TiVo and connected it, or that you haven't connected the complete TiVo itself to your computer?

The TiVo will not be recognized as an external hard drive.

The Tivo will not be recognized as another computer.

It isn't either of those things. Not really.

It's "computer-ish", but it's not a computer.

It's an appliance.

It can connect to your home network and download program guide data via the internet instead of having to be hooked up to a telephone line.

Even less than a computer, it's not designed to be "hacked" or have stuff added internally, or allow you to choose which operating system and applications to run. Just because that stuff can be done to a certain extent doesn't mean they intentionally designed it that way.

There does exist software that you can run on your computer that can "see" your Tivo on the network and copy recordings from it and some other stuff.

crxssi

04-04-2011, 08:44 PM

Complete linux myth, but the widespread belief that it is true is why there mostly aren't any linux defrag tools.

Linux/Unix filesystems *do* fragment, but they are designed with fragmentation in mind and thus do not degrade terribly in overall performance (unless the drive is extremely full or in certain types of writing). The generally held sysadmin position is that defragmenting most Linux filesystems (such as ext3/4, xfs, and reiserfs) is not terribly productive.

That said, the easiest way to defragment a Linux filesystem is to simply reformat the filesystem and copy the data back onto it from a backup.

smbaker

04-04-2011, 11:15 PM

That said, the easiest way to defragment a Linux filesystem is to simply reformat the filesystem and copy the data back onto it from a backup.

Supposedly there is an ext2 defragment tool, but it doesn't seem to be installed on my boxes. XFS is supposed to have online defragmentation, although I don't see many people running XFS these days. Regardless, it's not something people worry much about.

FAT was a primitive filesystem, frequently got itself into fragmentation problems, and is what led to the explosion of windows defragmentation tools.

1080p guy

04-05-2011, 12:09 AM

unitron

04-05-2011, 12:21 AM

That's why I ask "computer" type questions. Hey, they put USB ports on the thing(I had forgotten about the wireless adapters that hook via USB connectors. I have mine hooked up via ethernet cable to my wireless router. I guess I'm a bit "old school" & I still have a bit more faith in wired connects(he says as he wirelesslly uses his laptop). So the Tivos have a Linnux based OS huh? Good Stuff (Linnux is sort of like caviar to computer enthusiasts right?) Thanks for all the info, & on this rare occassion I will leave well enough alone. As Clint said "A man's gotta know his limits". I sometimes listen to well reasoned advice(I did say sometimes!)

Copying shows from the TiVo to a computer works ok with TiVo connecting wirelessly, but wired is better speed of transfer-wise.

You might want to think about getting the Tivo it's own computer (with a big hard drive) and running the free version of TiVo Desktop. Doesn't have to be a new computer, just something that can at least run XP, or if you want to get a used Mac,

* A Macintosh computer running Mac OS X v10.5.8 and later
* 400 MHz G3 processor or better recommended
* 256 MB RAM or more recommended

Keep your stuff backed up to the computer, and if there's a problem with the TiVo, it's not held hostage on a hard drive your computer can't read and that another Tivo can't access the shows on.

1080p guy

04-05-2011, 09:36 AM

Copying shows from the TiVo to a computer works ok with TiVo connecting wirelessly, but wired is better speed of transfer-wise.

You might want to think about getting the Tivo it's own computer (with a big hard drive) and running the free version of TiVo Desktop. Doesn't have to be a new computer, just something that can at least run XP, or if you want to get a used Mac,

* A Macintosh computer running Mac OS X v10.5.8 and later
* 400 MHz G3 processor or better recommended
* 256 MB RAM or more recommended

Keep your stuff backed up to the computer, and if there's a problem with the TiVo, it's not held hostage on a hard drive your computer can't read and that another Tivo can't access the shows on.

Before I get my Tivo it's own computer, I would get a dedicated music computer(probably a Mac w/ several Gigs of RAM) as this is where my priorities really lie. I believe adding a 1T DVR expander will satisfy my needs & will eventually get one, but thanks for the suggestions. (Yes, I run the TiVo wired because the speed is much better, even though I don't forsee transferring shows to my computer)

unitron

04-05-2011, 10:11 AM

Before I get my Tivo it's own computer, I would get a dedicated music computer(probably a Mac w/ several Gigs of RAM) as this is where my priorities really lie. I believe adding a 1T DVR expander will satisfy my needs & will eventually get one, but thanks for the suggestions. (Yes, I run the TiVo wired because the speed is much better, even though I don't forsee transferring shows to my computer)

You haven't said exactly (and that's the way we like it, exact information) which model Tivo you have.

Apparently some are having difficulties with some 1TB external drives, even when it's the WD model that's the only one Tivo considers "authorized" or "suppported" or whatever they call it, and there are some models that need some special version of the connecting cable to make a proper connection.

And, of course, everything on the external will be stored in Tivo's special super-secret file system, so you won't be able to read it on a computer, either.

Also, if you add an external, apparently, from what I've heard around here, all of your recordings from that point on will be split between the internal and external (not as in first recording goes to internal, second to external, but half of each goes to each drive), so, if either drive craps out, you lose what's on both.

Research heavily before going that route.

1080p guy

04-05-2011, 01:15 PM

You haven't said exactly (and that's the way we like it, exact information) which model Tivo you have.

Apparently some are having difficulties with some 1TB external drives, even when it's the WD model that's the only one Tivo considers "authorized" or "suppported" or whatever they call it, and there are some models that need some special version of the connecting cable to make a proper connection.

And, of course, everything on the external will be stored in Tivo's special super-secret file system, so you won't be able to read it on a computer, either.

Also, if you add an external, apparently, from what I've heard around here, all of your recordings from that point on will be split between the internal and external (not as in first recording goes to internal, second to external, but half of each goes to each drive), so, if either drive craps out, you lose what's on both.

Research heavily before going that route.

If I'm not mistaken I posted this thread in the forum under the "Tivo Priemere Dvr" header & that is indeed the model I have. I am not really interested in transfering shows to my PC. The Priemere has an e-Sata input on it (as does the WD "MY DVR expander" . I was'nt aware there might be a "hand shake" problem between the two. I will indeed do more research. I can't really say I'm that enthused about internal/external drive routing of recordings scheme. It kind of defeats the purpose of 'expanding' your storage space if you can't choose what you want to temporarily archive. (You are not a used Mac salesman are you?) (please take no offense at attempts at levity) Thanks, Steve

unitron

04-05-2011, 02:10 PM

If I'm not mistaken I posted this thread in the forum under the "Tivo Priemere Dvr" header & that is indeed the model I have. I am not really interested in transfering shows to my PC. The Priemere has an e-Sata input on it (as does the WD "MY DVR expander" . I was'nt aware there might be a "hand shake" problem between the two. I will indeed do more research. I can't really say I'm that enthused about internal/external drive routing of recordings scheme. It kind of defeats the purpose of 'expanding' your storage space if you can't choose what you want to temporarily archive. (You are not a used Mac salesman are you?) (please take no offense at attempts at levity) Thanks, Steve

My budget runs more to second hand FrankenPCs than Macs and nothing more recent than a couple of S2 DTs, but aren't there at least 2 different Premiere models?

1080p guy

04-05-2011, 03:04 PM

My budget runs more to second hand FrankenPCs than Macs and nothing more recent than a couple of S2 DTs, but aren't there at least 2 different Premiere models?

I believe it's the Premiere & Premiere XL, both are the series 4 incarnation of TiVo. The XL has a 750g (or is it a 1T) in it where as the std Prem. has 320g of storage capacity. I can't imagine there are many significant differences other then this, but (as always*) I could be wrong. I have the std. model.(*This is video equipment & not Hi-end Audio equipment so I'm not as well versed in it)

crxssi

04-05-2011, 10:38 PM

I believe it's the Premiere & Premiere XL, both are the series 4 incarnation of TiVo. The XL has a 750g (or is it a 1T) in it where as the std Prem. has 320g of storage capacity. I can't imagine there are many significant differences other then this, but (as always*) I could be wrong. I have the std. model.(*This is video equipment & not Hi-end Audio equipment so I'm not as well versed in it)

Other than the drive size, there is pretty much no other difference between the XL and the non XL- everything else is identical (case, ps, motherboard, cpu, software, interfaces, etc). If you don't care about the "glo" remote ('cause of course you will buy the Slide anyway if you want the top-end), then the XL is a standard Premire with $25 worth of more disk space and a useless sound certification with a $200 higher price tag. But if you really need the space....

steve614

04-05-2011, 11:04 PM

useless sound certification with a $200 higher price tag. ....

Not "useless", maybe to you it is...
The THX certification only comes into play if you go to the trouble of building a dedicated home theater room. Having a THX cert. is basically a guarantee that the product faithfully reproduces the A/V signal to industry specs and has an ambient noise level apt for a home theater room.

/nit pick

Having said that, I believe the base Premiere could probably pass these tests as well. TiVo just didn't bother to have it certified.

crxssi

04-06-2011, 06:54 PM

Not "useless", maybe to you it is...
The THX certification only comes into play if you go to the trouble of building a dedicated home theater room. Having a THX cert. is basically a guarantee that the product faithfully reproduces the A/V signal to industry specs and has an ambient noise level apt for a home theater room.

/nit pick

Having said that, I believe the base Premiere could probably pass these tests as well. TiVo just didn't bother to have it certified.

Since there is no hardware difference between the two, of course the non-XL will pass also. I'm sorry, I just don't see it as any benefit to me, or really anyone. But, maybe that marketing angle works for them.

lessd

04-08-2011, 04:40 PM

Since there is no hardware difference between the two, of course the non-XL will pass also. I'm sorry, I just don't see it as any benefit to me, or really anyone. But, maybe that marketing angle works for them.

Yes but without the glasses (and special calibration file on the hard drive) that comes with the TPXL you will not know for sure.

danjw1

04-08-2011, 04:50 PM

If you connect this to a Windows system, it could result in the drive not being usable in the Tivo any longer. As far as Mac, I am not sure. It is just a plain old bad idea. It just isn't that big a deal. Video files are fairly large and thus less likely for the drive to become highly fragmented. Even if it was a problem, I still wouldn't suggest trying anything like this. If you have read information on how to upgrade your drive, and choose to do that, that is fine. But what you suggest isn't really going to be particularly useful.

crxssi

04-08-2011, 05:17 PM

Yes but without the glasses (and special calibration file on the hard drive) that comes with the TPXL you will not know for sure.

You need a smiley face after that :)

unitron

04-08-2011, 05:37 PM

Yes but without the glasses (and special calibration file on the hard drive) that comes with the TPXL you will not know for sure.

Don't you also need some super-expensive oxygen-free copper fiber optic cables with gold plated owner's manual and platinum-dipped serial numbers?:)

aaronwt

04-08-2011, 05:57 PM

Since there is no hardware difference between the two, of course the non-XL will pass also. I'm sorry, I just don't see it as any benefit to me, or really anyone. But, maybe that marketing angle works for them.

Did someone finally breakdown both versions and verify that all components are identical?

crxssi

04-08-2011, 08:43 PM

Did someone finally breakdown both versions and verify that all components are identical?

The only thing that could be different is the audio circuitry. However, I am making an ASSUMPTION that the hardware is the same, not a statement of fact. But based on everything I have read/seen, and logical inferences about production, I am about 99% sure the hardware is identical. I will continue to believe and assert that the two are the same until I am proven wrong (which is highly unlikely).

lessd

04-09-2011, 01:22 AM

The only thing that could be different is the audio circuitry. However, I am making an ASSUMPTION that the hardware is the same, not a statement of fact. But based on everything I have read/seen, and logical inferences about production, I am about 99% sure the hardware is identical. I will continue to believe and assert that the two are the same until I am proven wrong (which is highly unlikely).

I did test both the TP and TPXL and both are the same, (as far as i can tell) both have some noise (not as much as the TiVo-HD) on the optical audio output when changing channels (the original Series 3 did not have this noise), and the video looks the same on a 65" HDTV. I know that some people spend $200 on the BEST HDMI cable and I spend about $7 for the same length HDMI cable, given that my picture does not break up my $7 cable is the same as a $200 except in looks, and looks are important to some people.

1080p guy

04-14-2011, 10:28 AM

Did you ever wish you had thought a bit more about the wording that you used when posting a new thread ? Every time I come back to visit this forum, I feel a bit embarrased that I did'nt ! It was never my intention to imply that I wanted to connect my Premiere to my PC for any other reason then to see if it would see it as an "External Drive" like it was able to do with one of my PDAPs(My Korg, I believe). I was hoping this thread would die a graceful death(or ungraceful, for that matter) by now. If you guys want to continue your conversations here, be my guest, but please disregard the thread title as it really does'nt pertain to the actual inquiry that I posed. (I hope that makes more sense, otherwise just carry-on "Disregard the man behind the screen"

1080p guy

04-14-2011, 10:52 AM

Oops ! I meant "Ignore the man behind the screen" (See, I told you I did'nt think before I wrote)

atmuscarella

04-14-2011, 12:13 PM

Oops ! I meant "Ignore the man behind the screen" (See, I told you I did'nt think before I wrote)You can edit your posts - very useful when you find errors after you hit the "Submit Reply" button.

Thanks,

1080p guy

04-14-2011, 12:28 PM

You can edit your posts - very useful when you find errors after you hit the "Submit Reply" button.

Thanks,

Yeah, sorry. It was a few minutes after that I decided to edit & wasn't sure if it was still ok to edit. You know what ? I think I even screwed up the edit! I think the correct quote is "Ignore the man behind the curtain" ( Ah, that makes some sense, unlike the OP!!)

unitron

04-14-2011, 01:43 PM

Yeah, sorry. It was a few minutes after that I decided to edit & wasn't sure if it was still ok to edit. You know what ? I think I even screwed up the edit! I think the correct quote is "Ignore the man behind the curtain" ( Ah, that makes some sense, unlike the OP!!)

I thought I remembered it as being "that man", not "the man", so I went looking and found

"Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain."

at

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0032138/quotes

As you can see, the topic about which you start a thread is no guarantee of where it will go, so don't let it trouble you.

Also, I tend to try to answer questions that weren't asked, but might have been, for the benefit of future readers trying to get a search engine to find what they really want or need to know when they might not know exactly how to ask the question, or even that they needed to ask the question.

lessd

04-14-2011, 03:11 PM

Also, I tend to try to answer questions that weren't asked, but might have been, for the benefit of future readers trying to get a search engine to find what they really want or need to know when they might not know exactly how to ask the question, or even that they needed to ask the question.

Hay!! that a good response. :)