Screen 'cropping'

[Buzby]

Just noticed this as my list of recorded shows lengthens... is there an issue with the screen size? (as far as the Tivo display is concerned?).

On the S1 you always got a scroll arrow to show when there were more titles than would fit on screen. On my TiVo - correctly set up for 16:9, has the titles falling off the bottom of the screen, and cosmetically it looks a complete mess.

Anyone else having the same issue?

[Cata]

It looks like it's a standard part of the interface. You'll see the same approach if you search for shows and have a long list to choose from.

[Tony Hoyle]

Confused me to start with.. it's supposed to be clever I think. Just looks wrong IMO.

[Mimizuku no Lew]

Looks like it's the same on the Premiere. In the second screenshot the titles fade at the bottom of the screen.

http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2010/03/tivo-premiere-series-4-impressions-like-imdb-on-tv/

[Digital Fanatic]

you get used to it... I don't think it looks a "mess" though :D

[Buzby]

OK then, 'unprofessional'. It certainly isn't a 'tidy' solution - just a consequence of a carp implementation when previously, they had taken care over screen esthetics.

[JayAy]

just a consequence of a carp implementation

I agree - I've never seen a good UI developed by a freshwater fish:D:D:D

[Brangdon]

To me it looks like they went to a lot of trouble over the screen aesthetics. That fading-out effect didn't happen on its own. They've made it obvious that there is more content than will fit on the screen, and it's also space-efficient, which adding scroll bars or arrows might not be.

It took getting used to. The only real flaw for me was that it wasn't immediately obvious that I could scroll; I thought it was clipped and the extra content lost. You soon figure it out when cursoring down, though, and once you realise you don't forget.

[Buzby]

I s'pose we'll never know the real answer. The 'fading' (to me) jusr comes across as a 'anything outwith the lower border should be dimmed' - but then, if genuinely the case, shouldn't the upper section - once the scrolling has taken place ALSO be dimmed, to be consistent? This would give the appearance that it was planned that way and not a mistake?

If I see any line of text horizontally truncated, I immediately conclude the screen is incorrectly set up (which it isn't). As the background explosion in a red paint factory is consistent across all screens, they got that bit right, but I'm just not a fan of these split text lines, faded or otherwise!

[cwaring]

I s'pose we'll never know the real answer. The 'fading' (to me) jusr comes across as a 'anything outwith the lower border should be dimmed' - but then, if genuinely the case, shouldn't the upper section - once the scrolling has taken place ALSO be dimmed, to be consistent?
No, because that's the stuff you want to see.

This would give the appearance that it was planned that way and not a mistake?
I have never thought if it as a mistake and - with respect - cannot see how anyone could.

[Buzby]

So, stuff symmetry and introduce a visual interpretation that has half-screens of unreadable text (due to horizontal trunkation and dimming)?

Perhaps it is a subjective argument, but to my mind where on-screen text should be clear and respected so that it can be read (as it was with the S1's)

I simply don't believe this is progress, as I cannot see what the benefit can be, other than to squeeze in a dimmed half-line of unreadable text!

[cwaring]

Most of it is readable; certainly 99% of it. As Brangdon said in his post, it's a way to do without the scroll-bars/up-and-down-arrows or some other indication that there is more text available than can fit on the screen.

Like I said, I think it works nicely.

[Buzby]

I'll agree there is less end-of-line cutting with the usual ... added, but this is attribututed to the high-res screen and smaller typeface permitting more characters to be displayed. But this isn't my beef - as lines don't drifet off any of the other three sides of the frame, allowing it to happen to one is perverse IMO, but then - I always liked a screen to be completely readable, not force user action to take additional action to read or view it.

As for space for scroll bars, I dislike them, but I doubt this was the reason, a typeface colour change could impart the same informatin to the viewer.

I'm glad you find it lovely, as an S1 user, it irritates the pants off me. At least there are no V+ banners competing for space.... yet.

[deshepherd]

Most of it is readable; certainly 99% of it. As Brangdon said in his post, it's a way to do without the scroll-bars/up-and-down-arrows or some other indication that there is more text available than can fit on the screen.

Like I said, I think it works nicely.

Think if the list scrolled as soon as you hit the bottom item then it would feel seamless ... problem is that it takes a second or two before the list redisplays with the next set of titles so (at least for me) the impression is that you've scrolled down through the list of items onto something that you should be able to see but for some reason has fallen off the bottom of the screen. Just doesn't feel intuitive.

[cwaring]

...but then - I always liked a screen to be completely readable, not force user action to take additional action to read or view it.
So only one page of information ever? Rather difficult with all the data a Tivo uses, wouldn't you say?

As for space for scroll bars, I dislike them, but I doubt this was the reason, a typeface colour change could impart the same informatin to the viewer.
Then there's be complaints of "why is some text a different colour"? :)

I'm glad you find it lovely, as an S1 user, it irritates the pants off me.
Of course, I too am a former S1 user ;)

At least there are no V+ banners competing for space.... yet.
That's what the Discovery Bar is there for :p

[Buzby]

1) No, - the screenful could scroll slowly like TV credits, then rolled forward or back as required. Sorry if you cannot think out of the box...

2) Funny, most intelligent folk would treat it as a challenge to discover why. So you believe the enevlope icon at Messages is causing problems to users? Oh, of course, it's in the User Manual.... I know, they could put the explanation on the typeface colour change there... but too radical a suggestion.

3) Suggest you find a CRT TV and stretch the vertical hold so that it over-scans, you'll be in heaven then....

4) Not on my machine, it was the first thing I turned off...

[cwaring]

1) No, - the screenful could scroll slowly like TV credits, then rolled forward or back as required. Sorry if you cannot think out of the box...
There is more than one way to achieve the same goal. I personally would hate the way you have just suggested.

2) Funny, most intelligent folk would treat it as a challenge to discover why.
We're talking about the average TV user. Intelligence doesn't come into it ;)

What I mean is that these things should be simply and intuitive. You shouldn't have to think about it.

So you believe the enevlope icon at Messages is causing problems to users?
Where did I ever say that? Most people have a computer of some description and will know what an icon is. Not sure what that has to do with the current debate though.

Oh, of course, it's in the User Manual.... I know, they could put the explanation on the typeface colour change there... but too radical a suggestion.
One less thing to explain if they go with something more obvious.

"Oh look, the programme titles go off the bottom of the screen. I guess I just need to scroll down to see them."

Or do you think that people aren't intelligent enough to realise that without having it explained to them?

3) Suggest you find a CRT TV and stretch the vertical hold so that it over-scans, you'll be in heaven then....
Again... not seeing the relevence.

4) Not on my machine, it was the first thing I turned off...
Really? How? As far as I know you cannot turn off the Discovery Bar.

[Brangdon]

I s'pose we'll never know the real answer. The 'fading' (to me) jusr comes across as a 'anything outwith the lower border should be dimmed' - but then, if genuinely the case, shouldn't the upper section - once the scrolling has taken place ALSO be dimmed, to be consistent? Indeed. And that's what happens, for me. On My Shows, for example, the top item is both truncated and noticeably dimmer than the next item down, when I've scrolled to the last item.

As for space for scroll bars, I dislike them, but I doubt this was the reason, a typeface colour change could impart the same informatin to the viewer.The typeface does change colour.

If I see any line of text horizontally truncated, I immediately conclude the screen is incorrectly set up (which it isn't).But the top line of My Shows isn't at an edge of the screen.

The bottom lines are at an edge, but the last two visible are dimmed progressively, which I think indicates they are not just being clipped by the edge.

1) No, - the screenful could scroll slowly like TV credits, then rolled forward or back as required.I don't like text to move while I'm trying to read it.

[cwaring]

I don't like text to move while I'm trying to read it.
That was my point, but badly expressed :)

[ericd121]

This thread would benefit from some relevant screenshots for the rest of us who don't have VMTivo! :)

[cwaring]

Done!

http://www.virginmediainfo.co.uk/images/VMTivo_MyShowsRecordingsandSuggestions.jpg

[TCM2007]

How legible is that on an SD TV over SCART?

The fade off St he bottom looks logical, but did someone say if you scroll down the entry at the top DOESN'T fade?

[cwaring]

That's an official screenshot and I don't have enough on my Tivo to answer the question. However, it's perfectly legible on a CRT. The 'lower', non-HD ones are too. They just don't look as nice :)

[VirginMediaPhil]

Can you actually switch to the old TiVo menus for 4:3 TVs? That would be interesting as they are supposedly a lot faster.

[Brangdon]

The fade off St he bottom looks logical, but did someone say if you scroll down the entry at the top DOESN'T fade?It does fade on mine. It's harder to see because there's less of it.

[ericd121]

One thing that screen shot shows, apart from how 'busy' the interface is, is that it no longer shows which channel programmes were recorded from.

Using the example of Top Gear, if those 9 shows were record via a Wishlist, it might be nice to know which were from Dave and which from BBC2.

[cwaring]

One thing that screen shot shows, apart from how 'busy' the interface is, is that it no longer shows which channel programmes were recorded from.
Erm... look again ;) (Hint: right-hand side!))

Clue: The ep of Mythbusters was recorded from the Discovery Channel.

[Buzby]

There IS nothing down the right hand side - unless you include the junk info that has nothing to do with the programmes listed. You ONLY see the channel when you actually select the programme, THEN the RH screen will show the channel it recorded from.

Which is unlike the S1 which provided a channel icon alongside the programe title without you having to drill down and select the programme itself.

[Buzby]

I don't like text to move while I'm trying to read it.

You must find TV credits most disconcerting then. A scrolling display is just one option, as could be the speed or scroll, or a colour change. Indeed there are already cursor arrows shown on the VM Tivo, so it hasn't been dispensed with. The fading out of a split line is still incongrouous, nevertheless.

[cwaring]

There IS nothing down the right hand side - unless you include the junk info that has nothing to do with the programmes listed.
Sorry. You're wrong. Look again. The info on the RH-side is the prog details for the highlighted show (blue outline). In this case, Mythbusters, recorded off the Discovery Channel. (Black oval at bottom)

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/63/vmtivomyshowsrecordings.jpg

[Buzby]

What about shameless, top gear etc? You;ve still got to work the highlight bar down.

Something you DIDN'T need to do on the S1.

[TCM2007]

The joy of TiVo was the clarity ond simplicity of its interface. This mess of garishness and promotions looks a real step backwards to me.

You can criticise the MC7 interface, but it's much closer to the S1's directness:

http://k.min.us/il4ZVi.JPG

[cwaring]

What about shameless, top gear etc? You;ve still got to work the highlight bar down. Something you DIDN'T need to do on the S1.
Never said it was perfect :p
You can criticise the MC7 interface..
Programme names cut off and you still have to highlight them to get broadcast time and channel; as you do with the new Tivo. Does look nice though :)

[TCM2007]

There are other views which don't cut the name off.

In the VM TiVo, what do the folders look like? This is the Win7 version:

http://k.min.us/jl53Xo.JPG

[cwaring]

In the VM TiVo, what do the folders look like?
Haven't recorded enough to use them yet :)

[kmusgrave]

Haven't recorded enough to use them yet :)

Strange. Almost all of mine are in folders - all wishlists, season passes, etc.

[mikerr]

You can flip between folder view and traditional "flat" view (like old tivos).
Just press the blue button (groups).

Maybe carl hasn't turned that on - I can't remember which is the default.

[cwaring]

I have switched it on but it makes no difference if you only have one episode of anything on your Tivo.

[Buzby]

Folders appears to be the default afer a reset. I switched to the Titles A-Z but this became unweildy sue to the length of the scrolling. Folder names option prevents the channel being shown, and in the case of Law & Order on a variety of channels, you only see the channel when the title of the episode is selected.

Not perfect :p But better than the V+.

[Brangdon]

I have switched it on but it makes no difference if you only have one episode of anything on your Tivo.Do you not have two folders for Recently Deleted and Suggestions? Those are getting pretty big on my box.

[cwaring]

Ahhh! D'oh! Yes to the former; no to the latter, as I don't have suggestions switched on.

[kmusgrave]

I have switched it on but it makes no difference if you only have one episode of anything on your Tivo.

I have several folders with only 1 episode in, so not sure why yours is different? We must have them set up differently.

[cwaring]

I wasn't aware you could set them up differently. I thought they were just either on or off :confused:

[cyril]

Sorry. You're wrong. Look again. The info on the RH-side is the prog details for the highlighted show (blue outline). In this case, Mythbusters, recorded off the Discovery Channel. (Black oval at bottom)

http://img651.imageshack.us/img651/63/vmtivomyshowsrecordings.jpg

I prefer the s1 style as you could see all channels in the whole list at a single glance thanks to the channel icons.

[cwaring]

I don't really care which channel it was recorded from :)

[cyril]

I care if it's HD or if it's a no-advert channel or one with no DOG.
If i have the same show recorded on different channels I can pick the nicer HD , advert-free and DOG-free version.