Wishlists - Broken?

[warrenrb]

I'm beginning to think that without the ability to specify which channels you receive/care about, the once excellent Wishlist functionality is almost useless.

My initial Wishlist I transferred from my old TiVo is 'West Ham' and 'Sport'. Jokes aside about my supporting choices, this wishlist now wants to record the LFCTV channel "Goals Liverpool have scored against West Ham". Err, no thanks. I don't want the damn LFCTV channel!

Even worse, it's going to record a number of radio programmes on Five Live. I will never, ever want to record radio (that's what iPlayer is for!).

Without a way to disable these channels, Wishlists have become broken and unusable to me, and with that, a big part of what made TiVo special compared to other PVRs.

[jonphil]

can you not use the exclude options to exclude things.
The description says about excluding certain programs so can you do it for channels too?

[mikerr]

While I agree they do need to bring back "channels I receive"
you might be able to do what you want with advanced wishlists - there's much more functionality there now including ignoring some keywords:

Keyword (CHOCOLATE) * (VANILLA) * -STRAWBERRY
Category INTERESTS: COOKING
This search will find only cooking programs with chocolate and/or vanilla in the guide data, but will ignore any programs with strawberry in the listing.

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/199



The UI does show ticks in favourite channels page, but you can't untick them.

I have a similar problem with my wishlists picking kids programmes/channels, and no way of filtering out cbeebies etc for wishlists.

[edit] grrr seems to let you add negative keywords, but doesn't work?!

[maxwells_daemon]

The UI does show ticks in favourite channels page, but you can't untick them.

Don't know if the favourite channels can be used for wishlists, but you can set favourite channels. I think you may have been confused by the ticks in the list - as I was. I don't know why it has a tick next to all channels, but initially no channels are listed as favourites. You have to enable the ones you want with the thumbs up.

[mikerr]

Yep, i've used favourite channels to filter the on screen tv guide, but that doesn't effect wishlists.
Thee fact that there is a tick box there implies you can change it though.

Anyone got exclusions to work at all?

E.g.
I set a category only wishlist for science fiction and all it records is kids cartoons (mainly fantastic four) since you can't filter channels.

So I added a title keyword of "fantastic" and made it negative by pressing thumbs down
It then correctly shows as "-fantastic" BUT still records fantastic four :(

[warrenrb]

I thought the ticks implied that you could potentially control it too. I can understand VM enabling them all by default, as non-TiVo veterans might not understand why their channels are missing, but it REALLY needs to be something you can control yourself.

The thing I loved about TiVo was how tailored it was to me. I had it trimmed and configured exactly how I wanted it, regardless of my TV service. 'Channels you receive' became a useful subset of the channels I ACTUALLY received, and then 'favourites' a leaner subset again.

In 'All Channel' view in the TV guide, seeing channels you don't get, shown, but in grey, is really annoying. The channel list is huge enough as it is, without added useless info.

I'm feeling a bit unhappy with VM TiVo today after my first impressions (not to wind up those still waiting, or who can't get it btw, just my personal opinion). I feel I was pretty content with what TiVo was, and all I really needed was HD and extra tuners. Having all this extra stuff forced upon you without a means to configure it on or off, gives me a feeling where I'm overloaded with *stuff*, and at the same time some features I could previous use (wishlists) are now gone.

They've definitely gone for the 'more of everything is always better' approach, which I clearly don't agree with.

[hornist]

Well said warrenrb.
While there's lots to like about having newer hardware, HD, and multiple tuners, I'm left somewhat deflated by parental controls I can't turn off, features and channels I don't want, and a general sense that a potentially powerful tool has been tailored to restrict my viewing experience.
I'm liking it a bit, but not as much as either my expectations or the price led me to think I would.

[Faz]

Someone please tell me this is some twisted joke. :mad:

I have my install this Saturday and Wishlists, with auto-record, is probably THE main feature I am looking forward to having back, oh and Suggestions of course!

I'll happily sacrifice all the other non TiVo stuff like catch-up TV, apps, dual (and soon 3rd) tuner, even a major cut in recording capacity, if it means I can have Wishlists that are actually fit for purpose!

And there I was giving Virgin praise for partnering with TiVo.

I sincerely hope Virgin are listening to us TiVo old timers! Otherwise this marriage is doomed to failure before the honeymoon has even started! :(

Unbelievable!


Edit: From http://tivo.virginmedia.com/public/how
Your TiVo service can help you find the telly you actually want to watch.

This sure sounds like the Wishlists we've come to love.

With the following in the next paragraph which appears to distinguish Wishlists from Suggestions:

But TiVo also helps you to discover new things that you might want to watch.

Surely misleading with current state of Wishlists according to the Trade Descriptions Act. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trade_Descriptions_Act_1968)

[jonphil]

While I don't totally agree with the comments about wishlists. I'd imagine this is just how they work on the Premiere Tivo boxes and nothing to do with Virgin fiddling. (can't see what they would have to gain from fiddling with the wishlists).

What I did find last night is I tried to enter Jennifer Aniston as a test and then set an exclude on 'Friends' but I noticed that the showings of Friends on E4 weren't even showings without having to exclude.
Same again on Courtney Cox with Friends and Cougar Town (however she's also listed as Cox Arquette)
Didn't have too much time to play around as I also couldn't think of something that would currently be showing that I would then want to try excluding from recording.

Either the guide data is missing or something isn't quite right with the wishlists yet.
Maybe it would be good it Virgin had a e-mail address or something for people who have Tivo's now to report any odd issues.

Non Tivo S1 people may not have spotted some obvious things that don't work like they should.

[Zaichik]

I noticed a similar thing with some of the searches I did - I found particularly that showings on SD channels were ignored over those on HD. I initially thought this was an issue because TiVo is currently connected to an SD TV but it seems the HD channels are perfectly viewable through SCART - they're just downscaled.

[Digital Fanatic]

Virgin Media haven't messed with the Wishlists, TiVo are in charge of things like that.

The only real customisation is around 3rd tuner, VoD and Apps.

[warrenrb]

DF, it's not so much the wishlists themselves, as the control of the channels we receive. Do you know if it's up to VM whether we can 'toggle' channels we receive on the new TiVo? On our original one, you could control/customise this yourself (for reasons I outlined in the first post - not wanting to record radio, etc.). I'm assuming you may not be an S1 owner - apologies if I'm telling you stuff you know.

The 'channels' page where you set your favourites, has what looks like 'checkboxes' by the channels (as someone already mentioned), almost suggesting that you can toggle them on and off, but they are 'locked' at present.

I was also thinking maybe one of us could go and ask the big boys in the US Premiere forum if this is something they can do - that way we know if it's a TiVo or a Virgin thing. Cover me... I'm going in...

[Digital Fanatic]

DF, it's not so much the wishlists themselves, as the control of the channels we receive. Do you know if it's up to VM whether we can 'toggle' channels we receive on the new TiVo? On our original one, you could control/customise this yourself (for reasons I outlined in the first post - not wanting to record radio, etc.). I'm assuming you may not be an S1 owner - apologies if I'm telling you stuff you know.

The 'channels' page where you set your favourites, has what looks like 'checkboxes' by the channels (as someone already mentioned), almost suggesting that you can toggle them on and off, but they are 'locked' at present.

I was also thinking maybe one of us could go and ask the big boys in the US Premiere forum if this is something they can do - that way we know if it's a TiVo or a Virgin thing. Cover me... I'm going in...

Ok :D

I think because this is a platform TiVo, then VM will want you to see the other channels.

[jonphil]

Think I understand you a bit more now warrenrb and yeah I wouldn't want to record things from the radio based on a keyword.
I would hope the actor search wouldn't pick up too much on the radio anyway. TBH I'm so new to Virgin I'm yet to locate the radio stations. lol.

I'll have another go tonight as I'm really interested in the advanced Wishlists as it does actually seem more powerful than the S1 lists, but as you say ideally it would be nice to exclude particular channels.
Maybe Premiere users can point us in the right direction, would think USA Cable services would work the same way (i.e channels received controlled by the cable company)

[jonphil]

This http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/tipsandtricks/tips-tricks-pg2.html talks about category so maybe you can exclude 'radio' or just make sure you add documentary or something like that. :)

[warrenrb]

Yeah, I know, unfortunately 'radio' isn't one of the categories. Categories as we've seen from the S1 is hit and miss, and only as good as the guide data - for example, one off the football shows on Radio 5 I didn't want to record had the categories of 'football, cricket'. It was a football specific show - nothing to suggest that cricket would be mentioned.

I've also seen football not picked up by a wishlist with 'sport/football' because it wasn't listed as such in it's metadata.

[warrenrb]

Yes, one of our US cousins has confirmed that they can toggle their channels on and off, so this is a VM specific configuration.

As I said previously DF, I can understand why they would be on by default, but VM has nothing to lose by allowing us to cherry-pick channels we care about from the XL package, and 'hide' the others - as someone who has just upgraded from an M package, there's a HUGE amount of crap that I couldn't care less about, and it would be a better experience if I could customise and remove those channels - VM still get paid for them either way.

Without this, Wishlists (truly one of TiVo's best features) is limited in it's value, IMHO.

[cwaring]

TBH I'm so new to Virgin I'm yet to locate the radio stations. lol.
FYI, they start @ 901 ;)

[Digital Fanatic]

Yes, one of our US cousins has confirmed that they can toggle their channels on and off, so this is a VM specific configuration.

As I said previously DF, I can understand why they would be on by default, but t VM has nothing to lose by allowing us to cherry-pick channels we care about from the XL package, and 'hide' the other- as someone who has just upgraded from an M package, there's a HUGE amount of crap that I couldn't care less about, and it would be a better experience if I could customise and remove those channels - VM still get paid for them either way.

Without this, Wishlists (truly one of TiVo's best features) is limited in it's value, IMHO.

We've previously asked about that and VM won't do it, due to commercial agreements with channel providers. If it was part of the WishList search then they may add something there, maybe a 'ignore these channels' feature? but they won't allow you to "hide" other channels (other than 'ADULT') in the guide.

[mikerr]

Ouch. wishlists are broken unless you can restrict them from gobbling up kids programmes :(
Just try a category wishlist for scifi - and you get nothing but ben10 and Fanstic Four cartoons... :down:

Only other method would be for wishlists to use favourite channels instead
- something which has been asked for many times by americans..

[warrenrb]

Yes, 'favourite channels only' would work, as a restriction (with most of the structure in place already). Can't see it happening though, as the US can already control which channels they get.

[ColinYounger]

commercial agreements with channel providers.

First, did you install my TiVo?

Second - I think we need to make it clear that "Favourite Channels" are just a way of saying what your most watched channels are. They do not (necessarily) hide them from the live guide.

In other words, if you have them enabled you can limit wishlists to the channels you want, but it doesn't stop you browsing through those channels.

[big_dirk]

I'm trying to figure out what it is that you want and don't want here, can I help? Ask me if I can do something specific and I'll try? If you can't do it, maybe I'll save you some money on it!?

[TCM2007]

What they want is to exclude specific channels from the results of a Wishlist.

[Tony Hoyle]

Or just an option to limit wishlists to favourite channels would probably do (assuming reinstatement of 'channels I receive' isn't on the cards).

[Digital Fanatic]

First, did you install my TiVo?

Second - I think we need to make it clear that "Favourite Channels" are just a way of saying what your most watched channels are. They do not (necessarily) hide them from the live guide.

In other words, if you have them enabled you can limit wishlists to the channels you want, but it doesn't stop you browsing through those channels.

1st, no :)

2nd, Warrenrb was initially talking about removing channels you don't want/watch from the guide. I'm well aware how "favourites" work :)

I also think it would be a good idea to impliment that in to the WishList search. This has already been fed back to VM.

[warrenrb]

I also think it would be a good idea to impliment that in to the WishList search. This has already been fed back to VM.

Sweet, nice one.

[jonphil]

As much as Wishlists can't stop recordings on channels we don't want I'm impressed with how much better they are.
I just looked to see if the new series of V was on and the first episode was listed in the details but with no showing date. So I went to create a wishlist from the screen and it automatically entered 'V' and 'Red Rain' for me so it will match against both words instead of just 'V'

[mikerr]

I've had more of a play with wishlists and found what does and doesn't work:


wishlists are still hampered by inability to cut out channels (espeically kids channels)
multiple keywords work fine, for both title keywords and general
as do the "optional"(in brackets) and "required" actions by pressing thumbs up:
Negative keywords do not work at present [edit] when category is also specified


e.g. a keyword of "-FANTASTIC" doesn't stop FANTASTIC FOUR from recording in that wishlist, as it should.
[edit] it appears specifying a category is what breaks it


I'm currently going through "planned recordings" (todo list) and deleting many unwanted recordings every day :(

[cwaring]

I never used the "auto-record" function on Wishlists anyway. Perhaps, for now, that might be the best way to go.

[The Wishlist]

Hmmm.

Ran a poll on my blog of what TiVo features customers were looking forward to the most, 'Wishlists' came 2nd after the 1TB Hard Drive:

http://virgintivo.blogspot.com/2011/02/poll-results-1tb-hard-drive-is-most.html

Disappointing to read now that Wishlists return too much data from too many channels. I assume that, after I get my TiVo and I set up a wishlist for 'football', it will even return results from radio channels? Ugh! I'd rather restrict that to TV channels only (and certainly not anything outside my favourites).

Someone please tell me that I can at least scroll quickly through wishlists results. After the 1TB recording capacity, Wishlists was the feature I was looking forward to the most.


I also think it would be a good idea to impliment that in to the WishList search. This has already been fed back to VM.

Any chance that VM could fix this Wishlist issue with the 3rd tuner update? Please? :) Because this situation will only get worse as VM add more channels to XL.

Me moaning about more channels being added to XL :eek:, I'd never thought I'll see the day.

[jonphil]

I've had more of a play with wishlists and found what does and doesn't work:


wishlists are still hampered by inability to cut out channels (espeically kids channels)
multiple keywords work fine, for both title keywords and general
as do the "optional"(in brackets) and "required" actions by pressing thumbs up:
Negative keywords do not work at present:


e.g. a keyword of "-FANTASTIC" doesn't stop FANTASTIC FOUR from recording in that wishlist, as it should.

I'm currently going through "planned recordings" (todo list) and deleting many unwanted recordings every day :(

I managed to get this working.
But confused wit you saying optional in brackets as I thought you had to select the word you didn't want with a thumbs down.
I tried it by searching for an actor that I knew would be in loads of things on TV and the took the most common repeated think and added that as a Thumbs down word and when I checked again the list had been reduced :)

The fact feedback on being able to exclude channels from a wishlist will make the feature even better if it gets implemented :)

[Brangdon]

Negative keywords work for me as well. -Fantastic*Four (where * is the separator bullet) finds loads of programmes with "Four" but not "Fantastic Four". Plain Fantastic*Four or (Fantastic)*Four did find it.

It took me a few moments to figure out when to hit Thumbs Up.

[mikerr]

Ah,a bit more investigation finds negative keywords (or actor negatives too) only stop working when you specify a category (which is a big feature of wishists for me)

e.g. a wishlist for:

Keyword: -Simpsons
Actor: Castanella,Dan

finds all programmes Dan Castanella is in except the simpsons. This works.

this doesn't:

Title Keyword: -outtake
Category: comedy

(still shows episodes of "outtake tv" and it shouldn't )

Basically it's specifying a category that breaks negative keywords.

[Brangdon]

It's erratic. FANTASTIC*Film worked for me, where the Film part is a category; I tried that earlier. But I was able to reproduce your -OUTTAKE*Comedy example. I then changed it to -OUTTAKE TV*Comedy and that worked. I then deleted the TV part and that worked too, although it hadn't earlier.

[Furball]

- as someone who has just upgraded from an M package, there's a HUGE amount of crap that I couldn't care less about.

One reason I gave my invitation TiVo to someone else, we just didnt want XL, had it once and found it so jam packed with total tosh and repeats that we dropped back (after I told them to come and take it out cos I'm going over to Freeview) to some weird outdated Freeview type package with the addition of Sky1 which suited us just fine.

I'm just going to have to wait for the VM TiVo to become more mainstream ........ and cheaper

Furball

[Faz]

I also think it would be a good idea to impliment that in to the WishList search. This has already been fed back to VM.

:up: Thank you!!!! :up:

[mikerr]

15.2 and this issue hasn't been addressed (or mentioned much on VM support forums)

I just had an idea we might be able to do this via locked channels
-I tried locking lots of channels (in parental settings), but that doesn't stop wishlists recording from them :(