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Philosofy
12-28-2010, 09:17 PM
I know nothing about networking.

I just got a new router (Netgear WNDR37AV) which has wireless b,g,n, and does two wireless networks (2.4 ghz and 5 ghz)

My two HD TiVo's are hard wired to the router. I have a Windows PC that is wireless N. My intention is to have my iPads, iPhone, and older computers on the 2.4 Ghz due to range. The PC is what I use for torrents, so that will have the 5 ghz to itself. The PC is running TiVo desktop.

The PC can always see the TiVo's, and the TiVo's can see each other. I can transfer programs between Tivo's. The problem is in transferring videos from the computer to the TiVo's. At first, the TiVo's can see the computer, and I can choose a program to transfer. But after a short while, the computer disappears from the Now Playing list, and the transfer stalls out, even though it appears like its still downloading, it isn't. If I have the computer drop the network, then rejoin, it appears on the Now Playing again, but the transfers don't automatically start. I have to delete them from the To Do list before something will start transferring again, but I get the same problem.

I called TiVo, and they told me it was a Netgear problem. I called Netgear, and they told me I needed to forward ports, and to check with TiVo on which ports to forward. So, I get the list from TiVo, and the forwarding process from Netgear, but I'm still confused.

In the meantime, one of my calls to TiVo told me to set Nat filtering to Open, which I did. That didn't help, but its still set to Open.

First, when I go to forward a port, it asks for the Service Name, starting port, ending port, and server IP address.

Can I just type "TiVo" as the Service Name, or do I need to be more specific?
Is the IP address the address of the TiVo's, my router, or my computer? If its the TiVo's, do I have to forward each port twice (once for each TiVo)?

I tried forwarding some of the ports, and sometimes it would tell me the port was in use (or something to that effect.)

I can't find any way to find a list of ports already forwarded, and that list from TiVo is pretty long.

Can anyone tell me what IP address to enter (TiVo's, computer, or router)?

Or should I be doing something different?

Thanks

Philosofy
12-28-2010, 09:26 PM
Also, I can transfer shows between TiVos no problem. It will even stream true HD over the ethernet cable. And when the laptop is connected to the router via ethernet, it doesn't have a problem (although the transfers are much slower than TiVo to TiVo.)

Philosofy
12-28-2010, 10:41 PM
I've set a static IP address for one of my TiVo's, and tried forwarding all those ports, but it said that 80 was being used by something else. I tracked that down to the USB storage feature, and tried changing that, but it still won't let me forward port 80 for some reason.

orangeboy
12-28-2010, 11:13 PM
Forward nothing related to TiVo. Forwarding only allows WAN (Internet) traffic onto your LAN. The TiVo DVRs initiate communication to TiVo corp, so that traffic is allowed back into your LAN as a "return" path, so no worries there.

As far as seeing TiVo Desktop, I would start with switching from Beacon to Bonjour (or vice-versa): TiVo Desktop > Services > TiVo Server Properties > Network

Stormspace
12-28-2010, 11:15 PM
Unless the two wireless networks on the router create two subnets, you should be able to use the router in it's default configuration. I'd look at the firewall on the PC to make certain it isn't filtering out the the TiVo's or the TD software. Second, I'd reboot everything, starting with the router, then once it is up reboot everything else. Static IP's for your TiVo's are your friend as well, but make certain you assign the IP something other than the router will assign them automatically. For instance, if your router uses the ip range 192.168.1.100 thru 192.168.1.150 you'll want to set the tivo's outside that range as so. 192.168.1.99 and 192.168.1.98. Try that and see if it helps.

lrhorer
12-28-2010, 11:41 PM
I know nothing about networking.
Well, that's honest. The best place to start, however, is realizing what one does not know, so you're off to a good start, believe it or not.

I just got a new router (Netgear WNDR37AV) which has wireless b,g,n, and does two wireless networks (2.4 ghz and 5 ghz)

My two HD TiVo's are hard wired to the router. I have a Windows PC that is wireless N. My intention is to have my iPads, iPhone, and older computers on the 2.4 Ghz due to range. The PC is what I use for torrents, so that will have the 5 ghz to itself.
Well, OK. If I were you, I would eliminate wireless networking from the mix altogether until everything is up and running. I suggest you attach the PC via hard wire and verify everything works that way. If not, fix the network problem and then add in wireless. If everything does work without the wireless as part of the equation, then it's the wireless link that's the problem. I would lay decent odds on this being the problem, but even if not, it's best to eliminate it as a suspect up front.

Actually, I don't recommend wireless networking at all - especially not for HD video, unless it is absolutely necessary. It's not too unlikely it is at the heart of the issues you are having.

The PC is running TiVo desktop.
'Not what I would recommend, personally. For one thing, it's possible that's your problem, although I expect not.

The PC can always see the TiVo's, and the TiVo's can see each other. I can transfer programs between Tivo's. The problem is in transferring videos from the computer to the TiVo's. At first, the TiVo's can see the computer, and I can choose a program to transfer. But after a short while, the computer disappears from the Now Playing list, and the transfer stalls out, even though it appears like its still downloading, it isn't.
'Definitely has a hint of being a layer 1 or layer 2 network issue, very possibly a wireless issue.

If I have the computer drop the network, then rejoin, it appears on the Now Playing again
'Sounds more and more like a wireless issue. 'Could be interference, or possibly a bad wireless component.

but the transfers don't automatically start. I have to delete them from the To Do list before something will start transferring again
That's probably not part of the problem, per se, just a related symptom.

I called TiVo, and they told me it was a Netgear problem.
Well, it could be. That is to say the router or your wireless NIC could be bad. It's unlikely to be a design flaw.

I called Netgear, and they told me I needed to forward ports, and to check with TiVo on which ports to forward.
Oh, that's nonsense. No port forwarding is required. The ports used by the TiVos need to be open on the firewall, but none need to be forwarded. More importantly, while the ports need to be open in order for the TiVo to "Phone Home" for the guide data, for software updates, and for things like NetFlix and You Tube to work, you don't even need internet access in order to publish content from your PC to the TiVos. (Not immediately, anyway. If your TiVo doesn't connect for a couple of weeks, networking will quit working entirely.)

So, I get the list from TiVo, and the forwarding process from Netgear, but I'm still confused.
Yeah, well, don't worry about it too much. You were given bad information.

In the meantime, one of my calls to TiVo told me to set Nat filtering to Open, which I did. That didn't help, but its still set to Open.
Hmm. Actually, I'm not exactly sure what they mean by "Open". What are the other options? NAT filtering should be enabled.

First, when I go to forward a port, it asks for the Service Name, starting port, ending port, and server IP address.
Port forwarding allows an external host (on the internet) to autonomously send data to a host inside your firewall without the need for your host to initiate the conversation. Ordinarily the firewall will only allow conversations between an external host and one of your internal hosts if your internal host initiates the conversation. This feature is used to allow you to run an internet server inside your firewall. You could, for example, set up a web server by forwarding port 80 to a PC running Apache in your house. This is not how TiVos work, however, and although TiVoDesktop is technically a server, it is not to be opened up to the internet.

Can I just type "TiVo" as the Service Name, or do I need to be more specific?
Is the IP address the address of the TiVo's, my router, or my computer? If its the TiVo's, do I have to forward each port twice (once for each TiVo)?
You don't need to do any of the above. To answer your questions, however, the name is a just a text field that allows you to easily identify the penetration. One can call it "Wally", if one so desires. The IP address would be the IP address of the PC running a server that listens on the port being forwarded. For example, if you wanted to create an ftp server on the internet, then you would run an ftp server on the PC, and forward port 21 to that PC. It is not possible to forward a given port to more than one PC. None of this matters, though, because you are not running an internet-visible server.

I can't find any way to find a list of ports already forwarded, and that list from TiVo is pretty long.
As I said, you don't need to forward anything. You may, however, need to open several ports up on the firewall. Netgear and some other manufacturers call this "port triggering". It allows your devices to talk with hosts outside the firewall using the ports you specify. This is where you may need to set up the port list you found on TiVo.com, but it has nothing to do with this issue.

Or should I be doing something different?
Definitely. First of all, can you successfully transfer videos from the TiVo to the PC? Secondly, make sure the Windows Firewall is disabled. Thirdly, move the PC to a wired connection for the time being and see if things work OK. (BTW, the computer and the TiVos are all one one subnet, aren't they? If the provisioned netmask is 255.255.255.0, then the first three octets in the IP address should be the same for all the devices in question.) I would also try removing and re-installing TiVoDesktop, or better yet, replacing it with pyTivo.

lrhorer
12-28-2010, 11:51 PM
Unless the two wireless networks on the router create two subnets, you should be able to use the router in it's default configuration. I'd look at the firewall on the PC to make certain it isn't filtering out the the TiVo's or the TD software.
It almost certainly is, but then it doesn't matter in any case. As long as the PC and the TiVos are on the same subnet, the traffic won't pass through the router in the first place.

Second, I'd reboot everything, starting with the router, then once it is up reboot everything else. Static IP's for your TiVo's are your friend as well, but make certain you assign the IP something other than the router will assign them automatically. For instance, if your router uses the ip range 192.168.1.100 thru 192.168.1.150 you'll want to set the tivo's outside that range as so. 192.168.1.99 and 192.168.1.98. Try that and see if it helps.
Most routers support static assignments within their DHCP range, but even a fully dynamic IP assignment of all the hosts should work fine for his purposes.

Philosofy
12-29-2010, 11:29 AM
I'm still having the problem. Here's what I've done:

Last night, hooked the pc up to the network with ethernet. Got one show downloaded, but that was it. TiVo's couldn't see the PC this morning.

Read this thread, and deleted all those port forwards. Assigned static ip's to the TiVos (192.168.1.9 and 192.168.1.10). Told the router to use 192.168.1.11 to 192.168.1.254 as the DHCP range.

Rebooted, in order: modem, router, TiVo's, PC.

Still having the problem: TiVo's can't see the PC, but the PC can see the TiVo's.

Don't know if its related, but Windows wants to block a TiVo program upon startup. I have to start TiVo desktop manually.

In the Windows firewall, TiVo Server Service is checked, meaning it should be allowed. In the advanced tab, both LAN and Wireless are checked, meaning the Firewall is watching those connections.

On the box of my new router, it says it has double firewall protection (SPI and NAT firewalls), but I don't know how to access those settings from the router login.

Philosofy
12-29-2010, 11:48 AM
I checked on the Netgear website, and it seems I don't have the router blocking anything.

I turned off the Windows Firewall (and ignored all the warnings of doom and death awaiting me), and it seems to be working. I'll give it a couple hours to see how it goes.

HerronScott
12-29-2010, 12:59 PM
I checked on the Netgear website, and it seems I don't have the router blocking anything.

I turned off the Windows Firewall (and ignored all the warnings of doom and death awaiting me), and it seems to be working. I'll give it a couple hours to see how it goes.

Depending on whether you are using Tivo Beacon or Bonjour, you probably need to allow the proper port in the Firewall (probably related to the error at startup).

Scott

Philosofy
12-29-2010, 02:10 PM
Forward nothing related to TiVo. Forwarding only allows WAN (Internet) traffic onto your LAN. The TiVo DVRs initiate communication to TiVo corp, so that traffic is allowed back into your LAN as a "return" path, so no worries there.

As far as seeing TiVo Desktop, I would start with switching from Beacon to Bonjour (or vice-versa): TiVo Desktop > Services > TiVo Server Properties > Network

I don't have that option: there is no "network" tab in TiVo Server Properties. There is a network ID under configuration, but I can't find any Beacon or Bonjour.

orangeboy
12-29-2010, 04:21 PM
I don't have that option: there is no "network" tab in TiVo Server Properties. There is a network ID under configuration, but I can't find any Beacon or Bonjour.

Ah - Ok. I found that under TiVo Desktop version 2.8.1, and I believe 2.8.2 has that option as well.

Maybe an upgrade is in order?

Philosofy
12-29-2010, 04:45 PM
Tired upgrading, it says I have the most up to date. I'm pretty sure I paid for Desktop Plus, maybe I should make sure that's what I'm running.

Philosofy
12-29-2010, 04:46 PM
My program banner says Tivo Desktop Plus, but in the Help-About it says TiVo Desktop version 2.7, and has an option to upgrade to Desktop Plus.

orangeboy
12-29-2010, 05:20 PM
Tired upgrading, it says I have the most up to date. I'm pretty sure I paid for Desktop Plus, maybe I should make sure that's what I'm running.

I'm pretty sure the "in app" upgrade option doesn't work. This thread (http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=461520) has a variety of releases of TD, or here's the current from tivo.com (http://www.tivo.com/products/tivo-software/index.html).

FWIW, I've never had a problem with Plus carrying over to a new release.

ggieseke
12-30-2010, 04:00 AM
TiVo Beacon has always worked better than Bonjour for me. Desktop should set up the necessary exceptions in Windows Firewall, but it doesn't hurt to check. Bonjour should have exceptions for mDNSResponder.exe and UDP port 5353. Beacon should have exceptions for TiVoBeacon.exe and port 2190 (both TCP and UDP).

AFAIK the Plus upgrade is good for any version of Desktop. I bought mine for 2.5 and I've used it on every version since then.