Drive upgrades in a Premiere unit?

[donnoh]

Unbelievable...

I know I'm adding fuel to this and patronizing the troll, but I just have to say something...

To answer donnoh in kind, WTFRU to tell someone to STFU? What have YOU done to help the community? Are you sad that you're not even smart to follow a few simple steps to upgrade your Tivo yourself and keep all your recordings and settings and had to actually pay DvrDude through the nose to get an expanded drive? Better yet, pay for 2 drives? (IMO, if I HAD to have an expanded drive before it could be done for free thanks to Comer, I would've gotten ONE drive and cloned as many times as I need it, but it just me.) Buying TWO drives proves to me that you're a not technically competent person, which is OK in itself but you have no business dissing others who doing a great service to the community.

You suggest that something is being stolen perhaps. Do you have a qualification as an IP attorney? Do you know who's "stealing" from whom? Have you considered that DvrDude and others maybe engaging in the same "stealing" by reverse engineering of Tivo's IP?

(BTW, I do not think either DvrDude, Weaknees, Comer or anyone else here is really doing anything improper, just saying that if you want to go down the rabbit hole, it's possible to construe that anyone who examines or modified Tivo devices is "stealing", i.e. based on DCMA. It is OK then to "steal" from Tivo but not from the DvrDude, aka "the thief" under this theory? AGAIN, note the quotations marks, as I don't think anyone is really stealing anything at all, just trying to point a fallacy in donnoh's argument)

I thank that DvrDude is doing a great service and that he should not be afraid that free tools will ever take away his business... While world is full of people like donnoh, his business model is safe. What is sad is that people like Comer will eventually get upset and go do something more rewarding that trying help unappreciative folks like donnoh.

P.S. Is "donnoh" a iNet slang for "don't know"? If so, it's very fitting, IMO.

Peace

[richsadams]

I just wanted to update that I haven't found a way to get the new Hitachi 2TB drive to enable AAM. It seems that it is disabled within the firmware. I even e-mailed Hitachi support and they confirmed as much. It's louder than the stock drive, but I'll live with it for now. That's very good info. :up: AFAIK they are still good drives, but not as quiet as stock TiVo drives as you point out, so that may be okay for some but might dissuade others. Duely noted for future reference.

[richsadams]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_9jErQs3fy78/SnhY9nx9F4I/AAAAAAAAABM/8fslP8S9QpI/s320/t10neuralizer.jpgThey're heeeerrrrre! :D

[cherry ghost]

My drive arrived today! - Manufacture date is 9/22/10 - Do you think I'm safe regarding the Intellipark feature??? How should I verify?

The only way to fnd out would be to perform the upgrade, install the drive and see if it will reboot from a menu restart. If not (or if it doesn't boot up at all) then you'll probably need to run wdidle3 to extend or disable the Intellipark timeout. Not very scientific, but that's about it.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes!

Thanks for both responses! I was just wondering if I should disable intellipark anyway, so both comments came in handy. Thanks!

any update?

[gespears]

Hey Comer,

Any fruits of your labor to enable the expasion drive after putting a 2tb in the TP? I read somewhere (maybe earlier in this thread) that some of the people who had originally sold the 4TB expansion (2 internal and 2 external) had been having problems with this configuration.

Anybody know any more about this? I think it would be interesting to keep up with this for those of us that might want to expand even further later.

Thanks.

[comer]

Hey Comer,

Any fruits of your labor to enable the expasion drive after putting a 2tb in the TP? I read somewhere (maybe earlier in this thread) that some of the people who had originally sold the 4TB expansion (2 internal and 2 external) had been having problems with this configuration.

Anybody know any more about this? I think it would be interesting to keep up with this for those of us that might want to expand even further later.

Thanks.

Do you mean - add an external drive?
I am currently moving data from 2T drive in NAS to the new 3T drive to have 2T drive for testing. Meanwhile, I used smaller drives - like original 320G + 100G laptop SATA :D They work fine it seems. I know new recordings went onto the external, because the internal drive was 99% full.

[gespears]

Yes Comer, that's what I meant. Sounds like you're having some success. That's good news. What's the status of the 3 TB?

[comer]

Yes Comer, that's what I meant. Sounds like you're having some success. That's good news. What's the status of the 3 TB?

Here (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8186764#post8186764)

[gespears]

Here (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8186764#post8186764)

Sorry, read your post too quickly. I thought it said you were working with it again for the TiVo. I thought maybe you found a way around the issue noted before.

[AbMagFab]

Okay, did the upgrade overnight, it appeared to work fine. Used a WD 2TB Green drive.

Popped it back into my Premiere, and it's now hung at "Just a few minutes more."

Any ideas?

[comer]

Okay, did the upgrade overnight, it appeared to work fine. Used a WD 2TB Green drive.

Popped it back into my Premiere, and it's now hung at "Just a few minutes more."

Any ideas?

Everybody is receiving 14.6 tonight, may be that's what it is doing? Is it still stuck? Try rebooting again.

[AbMagFab]

Everybody is receiving 14.6 tonight, may be that's what it is doing? Is it still stuck? Try rebooting again.

I just checked, it seems fine now. I guess it just took forever?

Thanks again for all your hard work!

[Cspot]

Okay, did the upgrade overnight, it appeared to work fine. Used a WD 2TB Green drive.

Popped it back into my Premiere, and it's now hung at "Just a few minutes more."

Any ideas?

which drive was it, wd20ears or wd20evds?

[AbMagFab]

which drive was it, wd20ears or wd20evds?

Not sure, have both. Probably EARS though.

[comer]

Not sure, have both. Probably EARS though.

Oh, I see where this is going :) The next question would be - did you disable IntelliPark on your drive(s)? :)

[richsadams]

Everybody is receiving 14.6 tonight, may be that's what it is doing? Is it still stuck? Try rebooting again.I received 14.6 a couple of weeks ago and it did take "forever" to boot up...staying on the "Just a few minutes more screen" for quite a while. I happened to replace my router the same day and when I tried a network test on my TiVo's noted that both had a "Pending restart" notice. I pulled the plug and had them update immediately.

I haven't upgraded the internal drive on the Premiere XL yet, so can't speak to the possibility of an issue but it looks like only one member ran into any problems. Fingers crossed.

[KenVa]

I got 14.6 a couple days ago and everything seems fine with my wd20evds drive that I had previously upgraded to. And no I didn't do the IntelliPark. I forgot about it and after I had it in use I didn't feel like reopening it again since everything included doing a restart seemed to be fine.

[moyekj]

Has anyone tried comer's Linux Live upgrade method with a SATA-eSATA or SATA-USB adapter? Only computer I have at home is a laptop which is why I ask. I upgraded an S3 using WinMfs before without any problems using it. I guess the real question is will Linux drivers recognize a SATA drive attached to such an adapter?
Even if it does I suppose if you are essentially doing drive mirroring then you have 2 have 2 adapters - 1 for source drive and 1 for destination, so I guess that wouldn't work either. So short of having enough space to copy the source drive to file I guess this is out of the question?

[Cspot]

Not sure, have both. Probably EARS though.

that works....thanks!

[dshlyam]

Has anyone tried comer's Linux Live upgrade method with a SATA-eSATA or SATA-USB adapter? Only computer I have at home is a laptop which is why I ask. I upgraded an S3 using WinMfs before without any problems using it. I guess the real question is will Linux drivers recognize a SATA drive attached to such an adapter?
Even if it does I suppose if you are essentially doing drive mirroring then you have 2 have 2 adapters - 1 for source drive and 1 for destination, so I guess that wouldn't work either. So short of having enough space to copy the source drive to file I guess this is out of the question?

I guess it depends on a specific hardware, but using Comer's boot CD I was able to copy 5 Tivos running in parallel on 3 different PCs with different configs. Lenovo laptop with built in eSATA (second drive via USB), the Toshiba M5 laptop with generic PNY eSATA CardBus adapter and another PC via USB only. Everything was recognized and worked like a charm. Expect the process to take about twice as long with UBS in mix though, but it's to be expected.

[jmill]

I got 14.6 a couple days ago and everything seems fine with my wd20evds drive that I had previously upgraded to. And no I didn't do the IntelliPark. I forgot about it and after I had it in use I didn't feel like reopening it again since everything included doing a restart seemed to be fine.

TiVo Premiere does not require Intellipark to be disabled. TiVo fixed the bug in their software with the release of TiVo 14.x software.

[Anthony GT]

Has anyone tried comer's Linux Live upgrade method with a SATA-eSATA or SATA-USB adapter? Only computer I have at home is a laptop which is why I ask. I upgraded an S3 using WinMfs before without any problems using it. I guess the real question is will Linux drivers recognize a SATA drive attached to such an adapter?
Even if it does I suppose if you are essentially doing drive mirroring then you have 2 have 2 adapters - 1 for source drive and 1 for destination, so I guess that wouldn't work either. So short of having enough space to copy the source drive to file I guess this is out of the question?

Yes, I did mine with SATA-USB adapters. It did make the copy process much slower as dshlyam noted, but it worked fine.

[txporter]

Has anyone tried comer's Linux Live upgrade method with a SATA-eSATA or SATA-USB adapter? Only computer I have at home is a laptop which is why I ask. I upgraded an S3 using WinMfs before without any problems using it. I guess the real question is will Linux drivers recognize a SATA drive attached to such an adapter?
Even if it does I suppose if you are essentially doing drive mirroring then you have 2 have 2 adapters - 1 for source drive and 1 for destination, so I guess that wouldn't work either. So short of having enough space to copy the source drive to file I guess this is out of the question?

I used USB-SATA adapters as well. You can do everything except disable intelliboot with it.

[NOLA Sam]

Hopefully someone can help me with this issue. I bought a Thermaltake BlacX duet Here: http://*******.com/2chrjtf.

With the drives plugged in, I had to assign them each a letter in windows, as they wouldnt show up like an external drive and auto assign a letter. When I attempt to run Comers CD, it says no tivo drive is attached, but I have both the Tivo HDD and the 2TB attached through the Thermaltake module. Is there anything I can do to get this to work? Is this a common issue? I would figure this would work just like the usb adapters, but apparently I am hitting an issue here. Any Help would be greatly appreciated.

Sam

[moyekj]

I guess it depends on a specific hardware, but using Comer's boot CD I was able to copy 5 Tivos running in parallel on 3 different PCs with different configs. Lenovo laptop with built in eSATA (second drive via USB), the Toshiba M5 laptop with generic PNY eSATA CardBus adapter and another PC via USB only. Everything was recognized and worked like a charm. Expect the process to take about twice as long with UBS in mix though, but it's to be expected.
Yes, I did mine with SATA-USB adapters. It did make the copy process much slower as dshlyam noted, but it worked fine.
I used USB-SATA adapters as well. You can do everything except disable intelliboot with it.

Great, thanks guys.

[NOLA Sam]

Is there anyone on here that has links to already modded disk drive images? If my Thermaltake doesn't have a quick fix, the wife is gonna have a cow!

[richsadams]

Hopefully someone can help me with this issue. I bought a Thermaltake BlacX duet Here: http://*******.com/2chrjtf.

With the drives plugged in, I had to assign them each a letter in windows, as they wouldnt show up like an external drive and auto assign a letter. When I attempt to run Comers CD, it says no tivo drive is attached, but I have both the Tivo HDD and the 2TB attached through the Thermaltake module. Is there anything I can do to get this to work? Is this a common issue? I would figure this would work just like the usb adapters, but apparently I am hitting an issue here. Any Help would be greatly appreciated.

SamRut-roh. Are you saying that you have both the original TiVo drive and your new drive in the dock? And then are you saying that you assigned a drive letter to each one via Windows? If that's the case your wife is about to give birth. If you assigned a Windows drive letter to your TiVo drive you've corrupted the boot image.

You cannot, should not ever use Windows to do anything associated with the TiVo Premiere. This is a Linux program, nothing to do with Windows. When you use Comer's boot disk, you're booting into Linux, again nothing to do with Windows.

You can try to reinstall your original drive in your TiVo to see if it will boot up, but it sounds like you may have already done that and it didn't. If that's the case I'm afraid you'll be out of luck as far are recovering anything you had on your TiVo drive.

However you're in luck because you can get an OEM image from DVRUpgrade called Instant Cake (http://www.dvrupgrade.com/dvr/stores/1/instantcake.cfm):

http://www.dvrupgrade.com/dvr/stores/1/instantcake.cfm

I say that you're in luck because DVRUpgrade just added the Premiere images recently. You can download Instant Cake (be sure to pick the correct image, Premiere or Premiere XL) and re-image your original hard drive. That will basically give you a brand new TiVo. You'll need to follow all of the steps to set it up again including pairing the cable cards, etc.

That's probably not what you (or your wife) wanted to hear but at least you can start again from scratch. Be sure to read all of the instructions, follow them to the letter and don't get creative.

Is there anyone on here that has links to already modded disk drive images? If my Thermaltake doesn't have a quick fix, the wife is gonna have a cow!Unfortunately that won't work as the drive is basically married to your TiVo. If you were successful TiVo would fire up but you'd have to run Clear and Delete everything and be back to square one. A copy of Instant Cake is about your only choice right now.

Perhaps now would be a good time to invite your wife to the nice dinner you've been talking about. ;)

[NOLA Sam]

Is the 2tb drive done for? Put drive back in the TiVo and it's fine and working. Do I need a new 2Tb drive?

[comer]

Is the 2tb drive done for? Put drive back in the TiVo and it's fine and working. Do I need a new 2Tb drive?

If your original drive still works in Tivo then you are in luck :) No need for InstaCake. I don't know why that dock does not work, but you still can do an upgrade - just make sure you connect drives either via SATA or SATA-USB adapters. Those are inexpensive ;)

[moyekj]

One last question if you please. I only need 1TB drive for my Premiere (plenty for me). Can someone suggest a drive that doesn't require Intellipark disabling since I can only use SATA-USB adapters to do upgrade? (I'm really doing it to have a backup Premiere drive than to add more space). I looked at various threads and it seems like ordering a WD drive depending on when it was manufactured one may have to disable Intellipark, so I don't want to take that chance.

[NOLA Sam]

If your original drive still works in Tivo then you are in luck :) No need for InstaCake. I don't know why that dock does not work, but you still can do an upgrade - just make sure you connect drives either via SATA or SATA-USB adapters. Those are inexpensive ;)

So do I have this right?

The 2TB drive is not ruined, I can still use it as an upgrade drive, I just need to get a different sata adapter? Can you recommend one that is known to work? I think I will need a USB one, as my laptop has an eSata port, but only one. Here is my other question.

Will an original tivo premier harddrive, work in a different tivo premier that is not its native? I just received a replacement unit for one of the premiers I have that the tuner went out, can I take out the fresh drive and put in my other drive that I have stuff recorded on? Thanks for the help fellas.

-Sam

[steve614]

Here is my other question.

Will an original tivo premier harddrive, work in a different tivo premier that is not its native? I just received a replacement unit for one of the premiers I have that the tuner went out, can I take out the fresh drive and put in my other drive that I have stuff recorded on? Thanks for the help fellas.

-Sam

Yes, you can "transplant" hard drives from one Tivo to another of the same model, but you have to do a Clear & Delete to make them work properly so your recordings will not be saved.

[NOLA Sam]

Yes, you can "transplant" hard drives from one Tivo to another of the same model, but you have to do a Clear & Delete to make them work properly so your recordings will not be saved.

How do you Clear and Delete? Is that a built in process within the Tivo?

[innocentfreak]

How do you Clear and Delete? Is that a built in process within the Tivo?

Yeah it is under settings.

[NOLA Sam]

thanks. Does anyone have suggestions on usb to sata adapters that work with this operation?


I am in a unique position here....I purchased 2 new tivos, one has a bad tuner. I want to image that ones hard drive (which has stuff on it) and upgrade it to the 2TB. Can I do this then put the modded 2TB into the new tivo thats still in the box? Or do I have to do it with the tivo hard drive that is native to the box that I am upgrading?

Hope this makes sense.

-Sam

[NOLA Sam]

However you're in luck because you can get an OEM image from DVRUpgrade called Instant Cake (http://www.dvrupgrade.com/dvr/stores/1/instantcake.cfm):

http://www.dvrupgrade.com/dvr/stores/1/instantcake.cfm

I say that you're in luck because DVRUpgrade just added the Premiere images recently.

Rich, Instacake says there is no images for Premier.

[richsadams]

Is the 2tb drive done for? Put drive back in the TiVo and it's fine and working. Do I need a new 2Tb drive?That's very good news. Phew! As mentioned your 2TB drive will still work fine. It will be formatted when you perform the upgrade.

Also as mentioned, you can swap drives in a TiVo as long as they are like-for-like; Premiere to Premiere, Premiere XL to Premiere XL, etc. Once you boot up a TiVo with a foreign drive you will get an error message and at that point you can run C&D. That will essentially give you a "new" TiVo so you'll need to set it up as if you just took it out of the box.

FWIW I'd try running the program using the dual dock again...there's really no reason it shouldn't work. I have the same dock, but single and it works with Comer's program just fine.

Just make sure you have your computer set to boot from the optical (CD/DVD ROM drive) first, then the hard drive (windows, etc.). If you have Comer's disk in the optical drive it will boot into Linux first and the program should recognize the TiVo and the new drive.

Best of luck and let us know how it goes. (Guess you got out of dinner for two eh? :) )

[richsadams]

Rich, Instacake says there is no images for Premier.Scroll down...

http://i52.tinypic.com/2e69elg.jpg

[NOLA Sam]

FWIW I'd try running the program using the dual dock again...there's really no reason it shouldn't work. I have the same dock, but single and it works with Comer's program just fine.


It was hooked up, and the program just kept saying no Tivo Drive detected, I tried several configurations to no avail. Did you use yours to do any upgrades? I am looking at Amazon and they have some cheap cable setups to do this, and cheap scares me :rolleyes: I'd like to buy one that someone here uses just for peace of mind.

RE Instacake. I saw it listed, proceed as if you are trying to purchase it.

http://img594.imageshack.us/img594/9347/insta.jpg

[richsadams]

It was hooked up, and the program just kept saying no Tivo Drive detected, I tried several configurations to no avail. Did you use yours to do any upgrades? I am looking at Amazon and they have some cheap cable setups to do this, and cheap scares me :rolleyes: I'd like to buy one that someone here uses just for peace of mind.

RE Instacake. I saw it listed, proceed as if you are trying to purchase it.

That's interesting. Here's the dock I have (that works with Comer's program):

http://amzn.to/cKkXZx

Although not as elegant and a bit more work to connect I've also used one of these successfully:

http://amzn.to/bKNEkN

I guess I should have asked, did you consider connecting your drives to your computer's motherboard directly? Most computers made within the last few years usually have several open SATA ports. That's really the fool-proof way of doing it plus the transfers are much faster than with a USB dock or adapter.

Ah, I see what you're saying about InstantCake. I knew it wasn't there when I last checked, but saw it listed today so I assumed they had it for sale now...silly me. :mad: Looks like they're getting there but I don't think they should have added it to the list until was available. Sorry 'bout that. :o

[NOLA Sam]

I will need two of the less attractive cable sets you posted, correct?

[richsadams]

I will need two of the less attractive cable sets you posted, correct?Yes, or two docks or a dock and the adapter...some combination. I edited my post above (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8198406#post8198406) with a question...have you considered connecting both drives to a couple of open SATA ports on your computer's MB? All you need is a SATA cable and a power cable for each:

http://amzn.to/bumwkd

If your computer has Molex power cables, one of these SATA adapters works well:

http://amzn.to/av3sAA

It's odd that your dual dock doesn't work. IIRC someone else used one successfully but I guess you never know.

[lessd]

Scroll down...

http://i52.tinypic.com/2e69elg.jpg

I did and it said none available for the Premiere, only the complete drive is available.

[NOLA Sam]

I wish I did have a desktop with available sata ports. I have a Dell XPS from 2003 and I am pretty sure it does not have the ports on the mobo. I have a few laptops that I was going to use for this.

I will check the old dell, but I wont hold my breath :o

[richsadams]

I wish I did have a desktop with available sata ports. I have a Dell XPS from 2003 and I am pretty sure it does not have the ports on the mobo. I have a few laptops that I was going to use for this.

I will check the old dell, but I wont hold my breath :oHave a look, you never know. Might be worth looking up the computer/MB online to pinpoint SATA ports if they're there.

[richsadams]

I did and it said none available for the Premiere, only the complete drive is available.Soooo...wondering why they are listed under IC?

[NOLA Sam]

It's a sick joke that they're playing, thats all :rolleyes:

so when I get the new cables in and get ready to give this another shot, I dont even hook these things up until the PC is off and I am about to boot onto Comer's disk, right?

[comer]

I will need two of the less attractive cable sets you posted, correct?

I use this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812156014&cm_re=sata_usb_adapter-_-12-156-014-_-Product
Comes with power brick for SATA drive as well.

[comer]

It's a sick joke that they're playing, thats all :rolleyes:

so when I get the new cables in and get ready to give this another shot, I dont even hook these things up until the PC is off and I am about to boot onto Comer's disk, right?

Correct. When you have everything ready, disk burned and in the drive, or usb stick configured and plugged, turn off PC, hook up your drives via SATA and/or USB and boot to upgrade.

[aaronwt]

I use this http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812156014&cm_re=sata_usb_adapter-_-12-156-014-_-Product
Comes with power brick for SATA drive as well.

I used to use those several years ago with my S3 boxes. They worked great and are very portable. Eventually I started using the BlacX ones when I put together a machine with four eSata ports on it.

[t1voproof]

Newegg has WD20EARS for $94.99 and free shipping with promo code EMCZYNT52
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136514
valid till 11/01/2010

[cherb]

any update?

I just received my WD20EARS drive from NewEgg and it has a manufacture date of 17 AUG 2010. It sounds like some have had success with newer drives leaving Intellipark enabled. Do I need to disable entirely due to the date, or will setting it to something longer than 8 seconds do the trick?

[richsadams]

I just received my WD20EARS drive from NewEgg and it has a manufacture date of 17 AUG 2010. It sounds like some have had success with newer drives leaving Intellipark enabled. Do I need to disable entirely due to the date, or will setting it to something longer than 8 seconds do the trick?Based on a number of posts it looks like the cutoff date is mid-September, so you'll probably need to tweak the Intellipark feature. Setting it 300 (5 minutes) will do the trick.

Happy upgrading!

[husky55]

I just received my WD20EARS drive from NewEgg and it has a manufacture date of 17 AUG 2010. It sounds like some have had success with newer drives leaving Intellipark enabled. Do I need to disable entirely due to the date, or will setting it to something longer than 8 seconds do the trick?

Newegg reviews reported a high number of failures. I did not pull the trigger.

[lessd]

Based on a number of posts it looks like the cutoff date is mid-September, so you'll probably need to tweak the Intellipark feature. Setting it 300 (5 minutes) will do the trick.

Happy upgrading!

Why not just turn it off, I never had a problem with the drive doing just that.

[richsadams]

Why not just turn it off, I never had a problem with the drive doing just that.There are more than a few reports that the Intellipark disable command isn't working on more recently manufactured WD GP drives for some reason. I tried it on one that I have (August manufacture date) and received an error response. Setting it to 300 seconds works just as well for TiVo purposes.

[richsadams]

Newegg reviews reported a high number of failures. I did not pull the trigger.Responses look to be about identical to the WD10EARS (411 reports Vs 308 as of this writing). Both drives have been successfully used by a number of folks on the TCF. Certainly your call and I understand the hesitation, but I wouldn't think twice about purchasing a drive with a 4 out of 5 rating based on that much feedback.

EDIT: I'll modify my post to the extent that out of about 60 reports for October it looks like about 16 were either DOA or failed in less than a year. One single egg report was by someone that didn't even buy one :rolleyes: and two more were by folks trying to use them in old operating systems. The 97 posts on Amazon give it a four out of five as well...with several one-star reports posted by people trying to use it in odd applications, etc. That said I'd still keep in mind that people are much more likely to post a negative report than anything positive and overall the positive feedback far out weighs the negative. So caveat emptor but I'd still purchase one (although I might spend a few dollars more for Amazon's better return policy).

[tcfcameron]

There are more than a few reports that the Intellipark disable command isn't working on more recently manufactured WD GP drives for some reason. I tried it on one that I have (August manufacture date) and received an error response. Setting it to 300 seconds works just as well for TiVo purposes.

I can verify this, and I concur fully with this post.

One nice thing about using /S300 -vs- /D, is that if you later re-task the drive into a computer, it will have a 5 minute idle timer, rather than none, without having to change the BIOS settings in order to boot to the CD with the WDIDLE3 software for changing it back, and then having to change the BIOS settings back again.

In a TiVo, except for at the time of a reboot, the hard drive is always buffering. One exception, would be if the TiVo crashed/hung (not the drive itself). Then the /S300 5 minute idle timer may potentially activate. But, in such a case, pulling the power cord to reboot is required anyway. So, there is no downside.

[richsadams]

One nice thing about using /S300 -vs- /D, is that if you later re-task the drive into a computer, it will have a 5 minute idle timer, rather than none, without having to change the BIOS settings in order to boot to the CD with the WDIDLE3 software for changing it back, and then having to change the BIOS settings back again.Hadn't thought about that...but that's a good point for when we move on to those 4TB drives in the near future. ;)

[aaronwt]

4TB drives should be coming out next year.

they already have platter densities of 750GB, so with a 5 platter design. and an 800GB density they should be able to do 4TB.

Does any one have one of the WD 2.5TB or 3TB green drives yet?

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=866

I see the model numbers are
WD25EZRSDTL
WD30EZRSDTL

I see Newegg has the 3TB ones in stock. And they are still cheaper than the first 1TB Hitachi drives i purchased for my TiVos.

[comer]

4TB drives should be coming out next year.

they already have platter densities of 750GB, so with a 5 platter design. and an 800GB density they should be able to do 4TB.

Does any one have one of the WD 2.5TB or 3TB green drives yet?

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=866

I see the model numbers are
WD25EZRSDTL
WD30EZRSDTL

I see Newegg has the 3TB ones in stock. And they are still cheaper than the first 1TB Hitachi drives i purchased for my TiVos.

Very interesting :) Though I am fairly certain they won't work in Tivo. 3T is more than an unsigned 32-bit int of 512byte blocks ;)

[cherb]

I can verify this, and I concur fully with this post.

One nice thing about using /S300 -vs- /D, is that if you later re-task the drive into a computer, it will have a 5 minute idle timer, rather than none, without having to change the BIOS settings in order to boot to the CD with the WDIDLE3 software for changing it back, and then having to change the BIOS settings back again.

In a TiVo, except for at the time of a reboot, the hard drive is always buffering. One exception, would be if the TiVo crashed/hung (not the drive itself). Then the /S300 5 minute idle timer may potentially activate. But, in such a case, pulling the power cord to reboot is required anyway. So, there is no downside.

Speaking of Tivo always buffering. I'm a new Tivo Premiere owner. I'm transitioning from ReplayTVs which I've owned for 8+ years now. I notice there is no power button, but there is a standby option in the menu. Is there an advantage, particularly around drive lifetime, to put the Tivo in Standby?

[tcfcameron]

Speaking of Tivo always buffering. I'm a new Tivo Premiere owner. I'm transitioning from ReplayTVs which I've owned for 8+ years now. I notice there is no power button, but there is a standby option in the menu. Is there an advantage, particularly around drive lifetime, to put the Tivo in Standby?

Nope. The only thing that is turned off in standby mode is the video outputs. Everything else runs just the same. The amount of electricity saved is entirely about the TV, and other connected electronics, either going to sleep, or being turned off.

The wattage used in standby -vs- regular mode has been measured and reported as immeasurable, or just plain not saving power at all, when it comes to the Premiere, on it's own. If I could remember one of the sites that performed the analysis, I'd post the link, but I don't recall which one.

Standby is most useful when you are sleeping. It stops EAS alerts/tests from blasting you out of a deep sleep. The banners also won't record into the programs in standby. Since most of the EAS tests occur at around 2AM, if you put it in standby, you won't have to hear them or see them at all if they happen in standby.

Note: The EAS portion I just described, about tests/alerts not being recorded into programming, may only apply if a CableCard is used.

[comer]

Speaking of Tivo always buffering. I'm a new Tivo Premiere owner. I'm transitioning from ReplayTVs which I've owned for 8+ years now. I notice there is no power button, but there is a standby option in the menu. Is there an advantage, particularly around drive lifetime, to put the Tivo in Standby?

Aside from a little less load on Tivo's CPU and video output been turned off - only a piece of mind for guys like me. Always-on unattended devices scare me. :eek:

:D:D

[richsadams]

Speaking of Tivo always buffering. I'm a new Tivo Premiere owner. I'm transitioning from ReplayTVs which I've owned for 8+ years now. I notice there is no power button, but there is a standby option in the menu. Is there an advantage, particularly around drive lifetime, to put the Tivo in Standby?To add a little something to the wise answers above, the greatest strain on a hard drive is when it fully powers up from an off condition. No one advises continually powering hard drives on/off to increase longevity.

About the only action someone that's really dedicated to that sort of thing could take with respect to TiVo would be to put both tuners on channels with no signal thus slightly reducing data throughput.

Otherwise your TiVo should last many years...and welcome to the club! :)

[NOLA Sam]

I got my USB Sata cables in and started Copying the drive. How long does it take to copy from the 320gb to the 2TB via usb/sata cables? I know it was said it takes longer, but is that longer than 4 hours?

Sam

[comer]

I got my USB Sata cables in and started Copying the drive. How long does it take to copy from the 320gb to the 2TB via usb/sata cables? I know it was said it takes longer, but is that longer than 4 hours?

Sam

It should display the average speed. For USB it is about 15MB/s usually. So 320*1024/15 ~= 6 hours.
If your speed is higher it will reduce the time proportionally.

[richsadams]

If your speed is higher it will reduce the time proportionally.Unless you actually sit there and watch it...then it will never finish. ;)

[cherb]

Thanks for all of the information. I'm not so much concerned about the drive spinning, but on having the drive constantly written to. Someone mentioned that if it's not recording a program on each tuner, then the unused tuner(s) will always be buffering the channel they were last tuned to. With ReplayTV, when I turned it off it would cut video AND stop any buffering. So I was just curious if there was a way to stop the heads from writing when nothing was scheduled to be recorded. Sounds like No.

BTW, I was able to set IntelliPark to both 300s and disabled (on the WD20EARS). I ended up leaving it disabled just to be on the safe side. Using two SATA connections I was able to maintain an average speed of 38.5MB/s (I suspect the limit was the write speed on the WD20EARS). So copying from the WD3200AVVS stock drive took right around 2 hours 20 minutes.

Is AAM tunable on the WD20EARS? I'm not sure I would bother with it at this point as it's extremely quiet already. Also, I'm seeing capacity of 290 HD hours, but I see others reporting 317 HD hours. Curious if I missed something, though again I don't think I would crack the case to get 30 more hours out of it. :)

[txporter]

Thanks for all of the information. I'm not so much concerned about the drive spinning, but on having the drive constantly written to. Someone mentioned that if it's not recording a program on each tuner, then the unused tuner(s) will always be buffering the channel they were last tuned to. With ReplayTV, when I turned it off it would cut video AND stop any buffering. So I was just curious if there was a way to stop the heads from writing when nothing was scheduled to be recorded. Sounds like No.

BTW, I was able to set IntelliPark to both 300s and disabled (on the WD20EARS). I ended up leaving it disabled just to be on the safe side. Using two SATA connections I was able to maintain an average speed of 38.5MB/s (I suspect the limit was the write speed on the WD20EARS). So copying from the WD3200AVVS stock drive took right around 2 hours 20 minutes.

Is AAM tunable on the WD20EARS? I'm not sure I would bother with it at this point as it's extremely quiet already. Also, I'm seeing capacity of 290 HD hours, but I see others reporting 317 HD hours. Curious if I missed something, though again I don't think I would crack the case to get 30 more hours out of it. :)

You can set the AAM for the WD20EARS (I did). Currently, the capacity you should see with comer's utility is 290. He is still working to configure 'supersize' to get the remaining ~30 hours. Using winMFS, you could turn on supersize at any point (i.e. It didn't need to be done at initial expansion to larger drive.) I assume that will be the same for premieres as well when it is ready.

[tcfcameron]

Is AAM tunable on the WD20EARS? I'm not sure I would bother with it at this point as it's extremely quiet already.

Yes, AAM is adjustable. All four of my WD20EADS drives (which WD has phased out with the EARS drives) came with it disabled. They were bulk-pack, bare OEM drives from Fry's. I think that the retail (boxed) versions come with it enabled.

I enabled AAM, but changed it back, due to a noticeable slowdown with my TiVo HD, while performing drive intensive processes, such as indexing the guide cache and re-organizing season passes (especially if the two were happening concurrently).

Even with a stethoscope, I couldn't hear any difference in seeking noise levels. The slowdown issue existed no matter what level the AAM was set to, other than disabled. I have my TiVos stacked, two in my bedroom, and two in the Living Room. Even in that configuration, I don't hear any seeking going on unless I have my ear at the front panel.

If you check the drive specs, it does indicate that seek performance is reduced with AAM (which may be confusing to some, as older drives used to advertise quietness without sacrificing performance, using AAM). Why a performance hit would be noticeable on a TiVo (any model), I don't know, but that has been my experience.

When I first reported this, others stepped forward and said they experienced the same slowdown upon enabling AAM, and agreed that the drives were perfectly quiet enough without it.

The EADS and EARS drives are nearly identical. Mechanically, they are the same. The only discernible difference is in the "advanced format" of the EARS drives, which allows for greater data density, but TiVos are unable to take advantage of it in the way it was designed to be utilized.

You can set the AAM at any time, and change it at any time, without losing the drive data. So, if you wish to experiment, you could try it both ways, and let us know if the EARS drives experience the same slowdown, or not.

I think that the performance hit may be due to the drives being GP (Green Power) drives with a variable RPM that tops out at 5400RPM. A 7200RPM drive would have twice the opportunity to perform the same amount of seeking. That's my theory, anyway.

[cherb]

Thanks for the information regarding AAM. I didn't see a tool to set it on WD's website. Is it part of another tool? Maybe I'll experiment with it once the Supersize feature is available so I only have to pull the drive out once.

BTW, many thanks to Comer for not only coming up with a method of upgrading, but putting it in such a user friendly package. Very well done! Will this method work for previous generation TiVos?

[richsadams]

I didn't see a tool to set it on WD's website. Is it part of another tool? You s/b able to adjust the AAM using HDDScan.

http://www.hddscan.com

[cherb]

You s/b able to adjust the AAM using HDDScan.

http://www.hddscan.com

This appears to be Windows only. I got the impression from earlier on in this thread that it wasn't recommended to have a Tivo drive attached to your system when booting Windows. Is that not the case? In any case in my search for a tool to set AAM I saw mixed results, so figured I would ask here. Either way, it's sounding like I won't like the results based on the other posts (no pun intended).

[richsadams]

This appears to be Windows only. I got the impression from earlier on in this thread that it wasn't recommended to have a Tivo drive attached to your system when booting Windows. Is that not the case? In any case in my search for a tool to set AAM I saw mixed results, so figured I would ask here. Either way, it's sounding like I won't like the results based on the other posts (no pun intended).There's no problem having a TiVo drive attached to a Windows machine (the long-relied upon upgrade software winMFS is a Windows based program). The issue is to never utilize any of Window's drive utilities (assigning drive letters, formatting, etc.)

[Anthony GT]

Based on a number of posts it looks like the cutoff date is mid-September, so you'll probably need to tweak the Intellipark feature. Setting it 300 (5 minutes) will do the trick.

Happy upgrading!

Hmmm, in my enthusiasm I upgraded my WD 2 TB EARS without changing the Intellipark feature. It booted up fine, but is there a problem that can occur later?

[richsadams]

Hmmm, in my enthusiasm I upgraded my WD 2 TB EARS without changing the Intellipark feature. It booted up fine, but is there a problem that can occur later?Possibly. Try rebooting your TiVo from a menu restart and see if it boots up normally.

TiVo Central > Messages and Settings > Restart or Reset DVR > Restart the TiVo Digital Media Recorder.

If it boots up normally there's nothing to worry about. If not, you'll probably want to run wdidle3.exe to extend the Intellipark feature's timeout. If you didn't TiVo would hang at the Welcome! Powering up... screen after a software update and then require a regular power cycle (pull the plug, wait ten seconds and plug it back in) to boot up. Some people can live with that and others don't want to risk missing any recordings.

[tcfcameron]

This appears to be Windows only. I got the impression from earlier on in this thread that it wasn't recommended to have a Tivo drive attached to your system when booting Windows. Is that not the case? In any case in my search for a tool to set AAM I saw mixed results, so figured I would ask here. Either way, it's sounding like I won't like the results based on the other posts (no pun intended).

As long as you don't fire-up "Disk Management", Windows (XP) will leave the drive alone, and it is safe to use just about any Windows utility capable of setting AAM.

If you really want to play it super-safe, and I don't blame you, acquire a boot CD/DVD/Floppy that has Hitachi Feature Tool 2.11 or earlier on it (newer revisions after 2.11 won't work). I've been using 1.97, without problems. As with many drive utilities, it works on other drives that aren't Hitachi.

Personally, I find WD's GP and AV-GP drive lines to be perfectly quiet with AAM disabled. AAM, enabled at any level, saps away a small amount of seek-time performance, while the difference in seek-noise is only detectable (barely) if you use a stethoscope (or glue your ear to the top of the case). You will notice the performance hit when the drive is indexing guide cache or re-prioritizing Season Passes, more so if concurrently.

[Anthony GT]

Possibly. Try rebooting your TiVo from a menu restart and see if it boots up normally.

TiVo Central > Messages and Settings > Restart or Reset DVR > Restart the TiVo Digital Media Recorder.

If it boots up normally there's nothing to worry about. If not, you'll probably want to run wdidle3.exe to extend the Intellipark feature's timeout. If you didn't TiVo would hang at the Welcome! Powering up... screen after a software update and then require a regular power cycle (pull the plug, wait ten seconds and plug it back in) to boot up. Some people can live with that and others don't want to risk missing any recordings.

I did the reboot and it worked fine. I'll pull the drive tomorrow and check the date. I think it was 9/8 but I'm not 100% sure. Thanks Rich!

[richsadams]

I did the reboot and it worked fine. I'll pull the drive tomorrow and check the date. I think it was 9/8 but I'm not 100% sure. Thanks Rich!No, thank you!

[gespears]

This appears to be Windows only. I got the impression from earlier on in this thread that it wasn't recommended to have a Tivo drive attached to your system when booting Windows. Is that not the case? In any case in my search for a tool to set AAM I saw mixed results, so figured I would ask here. Either way, it's sounding like I won't like the results based on the other posts (no pun intended).

I used Win 7 and Paragon Drive Copy to make a backup of a TiVo drive that subsequently worked correctly in the TiVo, even through an update to 14.6.

What I'm trying to say is that you can use Win 7 to manipulate TiVo drives, just be careful not to use any of Win 7 drive functions on them because at that point the TiVo format and data can be corrupted.

[moyekj]

Another successful hard drive upgrade here using Comer's method with 2 SATA->USB adapters. Took about 6 hours to complete the 320GB drive copy.
First time I powered up with the copied + extended drive I thought I had lost CableCard pairing though as no encrypted channel would tune in and CableCard status was "Pending". After a soft boot though now the CableCard is working normally again though so everything is good to go.

Only issue is the new drive is a Hitachi Deskstar 1TB 7200RPM SATA II 16MB Cache 0S00163 and is awfully noisy compared to the original WD drive. I can hear continuous disk writing all the time. Is there a way to reduce noise on the drive (enable AAM and quiet setting) via SATA-USB connection?

[moyekj]

Followup. I tried using the Windows HDDScan (3.3) utility and it lists AAM feature as Not Supported. I'm guessing this means I'm out of luck with SATA->USB connection and setting AAM to 128?

[husky55]

Just found this WD 20EVDS, AV-GP at Frys

http://www.frys.com/product/6298510

That is $20 cheaper than at Newegg.

Don't know the difference if any with this one at Newegg WD 20EARS which is cheaper with the coupon.

Since I have to copy 320GB I really don't want to do this very often.:)

[richsadams]

Followup. I tried using the Windows HDDScan (3.3) utility and it lists AAM feature as Not Supported. I'm guessing this means I'm out of luck with SATA->USB connection and setting AAM to 128?Give the Hitachi Feature Tool v2.11 (that version or older) a try. See Section IV, #32 of the original upgrade FAQ for links and instructions.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160

[moyekj]

Give the Hitachi Feature Tool v2.11 (that version or older) a try. See Section IV, #32 of the original upgrade FAQ for links and instructions.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160 OK thanks. I burned v2.11 iso to a DVD but my laptop won't boot up with it properly. It starts booting up and then just hangs. Not sitting in front of it at the moment to get the exact wording. I'm going to try on a computer at work instead to see if that works...

EDIT: Managed to boot from v2.11 image on a flash drive on my work computer, and it has SATA so I guess if I can't get it to work at home I'll bring the drive to work to change AAM settings.

[EdH]

Give the Hitachi Feature Tool v2.11 (that version or older) a try. See Section IV, #32 of the original upgrade FAQ for links and instructions.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160

Can this be used on a drive that's already been in use on the Premier w/o losing data?

P.S. I don't see section 32 on the link you gave.

Thanks,


Ed

[Anthony GT]

I did the reboot and it worked fine. I'll pull the drive tomorrow and check the date. I think it was 9/8 but I'm not 100% sure. Thanks Rich!

For once my memory was right! The drive was manufactured on 9/8.

[aaronwt]

Can this be used on a drive that's already been in use on the Premier w/o losing data?

P.S. I don't see section 32 on the link you gave.

Thanks,


Ed

With all the other TiVos you could use the Hitachi Feature Tooll without affecting data.
Although I have not personally tried it with a Premiere hard drive. Only the previous models.

[richsadams]

Can this be used on a drive that's already been in use on the Premier w/o losing data?

P.S. I don't see section 32 on the link you gave.

Thanks,


EdHi Ed. Yes, as aaronwt mentions, there's no problem since it's a firmware adjustment, nothing to do with the data.

BTW, it's Section IV, #32. There's no Section XXXII in the FAQ. :eek: ;)

[richsadams]

For once my memory was right! The drive was manufactured on 9/8.Sweet! So it's looking more and more like it's safe to say that WD drives manufactured after 9/15/10 probably do not need the Intellipark feature tweaked. Thanks for checking on that. :up:

[moyekj]

OK thanks. I burned v2.11 iso to a DVD but my laptop won't boot up with it properly. It starts booting up and then just hangs. Not sitting in front of it at the moment to get the exact wording. I'm going to try on a computer at work instead to see if that works...

EDIT: Managed to boot from v2.11 image on a flash drive on my work computer, and it has SATA so I guess if I can't get it to work at home I'll bring the drive to work to change AAM settings.
Well looks like I got the wrong Hitachi Deskstar 1TB unit. The model is:
HDS721010CLA332
I hooked it up to SATA on a computer at work and ran the Hitachi utility and it states that Acoustic Management is not supported for this drive. In fact there were hardly any features at all to toggle for this drive. Guess that explains why HDDScan had the AAM setting greyed out for the drive as well.
I bought this drive from Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002D5XY8A/ref=oss_product
That's the problem when they never list the actual model number for the drive it's not clear what you are going to get...
I should have sticked with WD drive, but I was initially worried about Intellipark which was a mistake as it would have been easy to disable if necessary.

I'm just going to keep it as backup drive for emergency use only as it is way too noisy as is for 24/7 operation in a TiVo.

[richsadams]

Well looks like I got the wrong Hitachi Deskstar 1TB unit. The model is:
HDS721010CLA332
I hooked it up to SATA on a computer at work and ran the Hitachi utility and it states that Acoustic Management is not supported for this drive. In fact there were hardly any features at all to toggle for this drive. Guess that explains why HDDScan had the AAM setting greyed out for the drive as well.
I bought this drive from Amazon:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002D5XY8A/ref=oss_product
That's the problem when they never list the actual model number for the drive it's not clear what you are going to get...
I should have sticked with WD drive, but I was initially worried about Intellipark which was a mistake as it would have been easy to disable if necessary.

I'm just going to keep it as backup drive for emergency use only as it is way too noisy as is for 24/7 operation in a TiVo.Bummer. :( As you've found not all Hitachi Deskstar hard drives are created equal. The standard Deskstar 7K1000 series (http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/67A68C59B27368FC862572570080FC70/$file/Deskstar7K1000_010307_final.pdf) acoustics average 2.9bels to 3.2bels (and can be higher). By A/V standards that is very loud. The Hitachi drive most folks are using for their Tivo's, the Deskstar 7K1000.C HD31000 IDK/7K (http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/33586ADC145D59A086257603007B022E/$file/DS7K1000.C_DS_final.pdf), is considerably quieter at an average of 2.4bels to 2.5bels.

To reduce the AAM (auto acoustic management) to 128 HDDScan should work on those drives...it did on the ones I have (if you're logged on as administrator) but if not I'm almost certain the Hitachi Feature Tool will work. Again, be sure to use v2.11.

If you still wanted to go with Hitachi, here is a link to the 7K1000.C OEM drive:

http://amzn.to/cinYZz

Amazon has a very good return policy...maybe you could send yours back?

Western Digital's WD10EVDS is another good option...the only drawback is that it may require the Intellipark feature to be adjusted.

http://amzn.to/aI97uX

[moyekj]

To reduce the AAM (auto acoustic management) to 128 HDDScan should work on those drives...it did on the ones I have (if you're logged on as administrator) but if not I'm almost certain the Hitachi Feature Tool will work. Again, be sure to use v2.11. Thanks richsadams. Yes it was v2.11 Hitachi utility (ftool_211) that I used and that shows AAM not supported for the drive. I was surprised as well since the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ has that drive listed with folks reporting they could adjust AAM on it - that is where I looked upon deciding which drive to get. HDDScan shows the same thing - AAM setting greyed out. Both utils showed the same thing via USB connection, eSATA connection and even direct SATA connection on a computer at work. The same computer at work for the main drive did have AAM setting adjustment available, so I'm certain the utilities are running correctly. Perhaps particular firmware installed on drive has those settings disabled for some reason. Not too worried, I'll just keep the drive for emergency use. I wasn't really looking for expanded space anyway, I was more interested in having a good backup with stored CableCard pairing which I now have (and it's verified to work in my TiVo albeit very loudly).

[richsadams]

Thanks richsadams. Yes it was v2.11 Hitachi utility (ftool_211) that I used and that shows AAM not supported for the drive. I was surprised as well since the Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ has that drive listed with folks reporting they could adjust AAM on it - that is where I looked upon deciding which drive to get. HDDScan shows the same thing - AAM setting greyed out. Both utils showed the same thing via USB connection, eSATA connection and even direct SATA connection on a computer at work. The same computer at work for the main drive did have AAM setting adjustment available, so I'm certain the utilities are running correctly. Perhaps particular firmware installed on drive has those settings disabled for some reason. Not too worried, I'll just keep the drive for emergency use. I wasn't really looking for expanded space anyway, I was more interested in having a good backup with stored CableCard pairing which I now have (and it's verified to work in my TiVo albeit very loudly).That's very interesting...since a couple of other folks reported the same thing with new 2TB Hitachi drives they (Hitachi) may well have changed the firmware so that the AAM can no longer be set. That would be very discouraging as Seagate's cannot be set either basically leaving only WD drives as recommended in that camp. Although both Hitachi and Seagate make fairly quiet options, it's still nice to be able to customize things when needed.

In any case, good to know and thanks for testing it out multiple ways as well as the feedback! :up:

[moyekj]

Although both Hitachi and Seagate make fairly quiet options, it's still nice to be able to customize things when needed. I have to disagree with "make fairly quiet options" in regards to this particular Hitachi drive. The factory WD drive in my Premiere is extremely quiet and I struggle to hear anything at all even with my ear against the unit. In contrast the Hitachi I could hear constant crackling from 8 feet away (with the cover on the Premiere). I'm usually not too picky about hard drive noise but the Hitachi was ridiculously loud and no way I could sleep with the noise it was making (this unit is in the bedroom). I strongly suspect even if AAM was possible a setting of 128 probably would not make it as quiet as the WD drive is. The Hitachi is on par with the noise my 7 year old Maxtor 80GB drive in my ReplayTV makes (but at least ReplayTV you can turn off and it no longer buffers to hard drive so goes silent when not in use).

[richsadams]

I have to disagree with "make fairly quiet options" in regards to this particular Hitachi drive. The factory WD drive in my Premiere is extremely quiet and I struggle to hear anything at all even with my ear against the unit. In contrast the Hitachi I could hear constant crackling from 8 feet away (with the cover on the Premiere). I'm usually not too picky about hard drive noise but the Hitachi was ridiculously loud and no way I could sleep with the noise it was making (this unit is in the bedroom). I strongly suspect even if AAM was possible a setting of 128 probably would not make it as quiet as the WD drive is. The Hitachi is on par with the noise my 7 year old Maxtor 80GB drive in my ReplayTV makes (but at least ReplayTV you can turn off and it no longer buffers to hard drive so goes silent when not in use).When I refer to quiet options, see my post above (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8209236#post8209236). I have two of the 7K1000.C Hitachi's (http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/33586ADC145D59A086257603007B022E/$file/DS7K1000.C_DS_final.pdf) and they are very quiet out of the box; the acoustics (2.4 bels) are rated identical to WD's GP drives, although just slightly higher than their AV/GP drives. Agreed, the one you have is not a good option.

[donnoh]

Being the owner of a Hitachi 2 TB drive and a WD 2 TB drive in Tivo's, I see no difference in the sound level between the two.
Anyone that wants to complain about hard drive noise either doesn't own either one or doesn't know what they're talking about.
They're both dead silent.

[richsadams]

Being the owner of a Hitachi 2 TB drive and a WD 2 TB drive in Tivo's, I see no difference in the sound level between the two.
Anyone that wants to complain about hard drive noise either doesn't own either one or doesn't know what they're talking about. They're both dead silent.Hitachi like Seagate, Western Digital and others make several different lines of hard drives for different applications. The particular models we've been using are indeed very quiet when compared to some others intended for applications like enterprise, servers, etc. where speed is paramount and sound is of little consideration. The ideal TiVo drives run somewhere between 2.2 and 2.7 bels. Anything above that can clearly be heard in normal use. I still have a Hitachi 1TB in a Newertech backup drive that sounds like a thrashing machine, but as mentioned I have a couple of others in a NAS that are dead quiet...two very different models is all.

Between the HVAC and drive/fan din I sometimes thought I was going home with some hearing loss after visiting my servers in their data centers. (Not as badly as a few earlier Who or Stones concerts however. ;) )

So one just has to be careful about which drives to buy. Generally any that are recommended here should do quite well in a TiVo.

[aaronwt]

Some of us are more sensitive to drive noise than others. I've yet to run into any drive that is used in the TiVos that I can't hear from across a room easily. Even though the drives are set for low acoustics I can easily hear them. Of course with out those AAM settings some are extremely loud to me. But unfortunately I am very sensitive to hard drive noise and can easily hear it. Although I'm accustomed to it so it doesn't usually bother me unless the TiVo has a bunch of hard drive activity in the middle of the night and wakes me up. Unfotunately the head of my bed is only fourteen feet away from the TiVo so I can easily hear it.

Still I would rather hear a hard drive from a TiVo than a ticking watch. Any watch in a room drives me crazy from the ticking. Even if I put it in a drawer and cover it with clothes I can still hear the ticking from across the room.

[rushtrader]

WD 2tb WD2001EADS drive is on sale at Newegg for $80 when you enter code EMCZYZX48

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136344

From slickdeals

Cheers!
RT

[richsadams]

Some of us are more sensitive to drive noise than others. I've yet to run into any drive that is used in the TiVos that I can't hear from across a room easily. Even though the drives are set for low acoustics I can easily hear them. Of course with out those AAM settings some are extremely loud to me. But unfortunately I am very sensitive to hard drive noise and can easily hear it. Although I'm accustomed to it so it doesn't usually bother me unless the TiVo has a bunch of hard drive activity in the middle of the night and wakes me up. Unfotunately the head of my bed is only fourteen feet away from the TiVo so I can easily hear it.

Still I would rather hear a hard drive from a TiVo than a ticking watch. Any watch in a room drives me crazy from the ticking. Even if I put it in a drawer and cover it with clothes I can still hear the ticking from across the room.Wow! You obviously did not go to enough concerts in your younger days! ;)

[richsadams]

WD 2tb WD2001EADS drive is on sale at Newegg for $80 when you enter code EMCZYZX48

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136344

From slickdeals

Cheers!
RTSold out. :(

[donnoh]

Wow! You obviously did not go to enough concerts in your younger days! ;)

+1 on that one!
I wish I could hear well enough for a ticking watch to bother me.

Even though I'm an old fart my hearing is still pretty good, but a ticking watch is like dog hearing.

[richsadams]

+1 on that one!
I wish I could hear well enough for a ticking watch to bother me.

Even though I'm an old fart my hearing is still pretty good, but a ticking watch is like dog hearing.What? :p

[comer]

I think I know why commercial providers stopped selling two-drive kits. I may have hit the same snag here while verifying end-to-end functionality :(

The problem is that when I add an external drive to the expanded supersized internal drive, Tivo shows used space as a negative percentage :eek: (You can only see the used space bar in HD UI). I don't know if it has any repercussions further or it's just a UI bug. The total space is reported correctly in system info though.

I have to investigate if supersize has anything to do with that or it is (may be) a Tivo limitation (feature/bug) on the total disk space. If supersize is the reason, than I'll have to postpone the release. If not - I will remove "Add external" functionality and will release without it.

[aaronwt]

isn't that just a UI bug?
if so I'm sure they will fix it. You can't have people showing a negative pecentage of available space so you would think that would be a priority to fix.

[tcfcameron]

I think I know why commercial providers stopped selling two-drive kits. I may have hit the same snag here while verifying end-to-end functionality :(

The problem is that when I add an external drive to the expanded supersized internal drive, Tivo shows used space as a negative percentage :eek: (You can only see the used space bar in HD UI). I don't know if it has any repercussions further or it's just a UI bug. The total space is reported correctly in system info though.

I have to investigate if supersize has anything to do with that or it is (may be) a Tivo limitation (feature/bug) on the total disk space. If supersize is the reason, than I'll have to postpone the release. If not - I will remove "Add external" functionality and will release without it.

Something odd has been going on, for sure. Nearly immediately after the Premiere could be bought, the upgrade sites were selling them with 4TB (2+2). Then it was only 2TB internal, last I checked it was 2TB (1+1).

I don't know if maybe it has something to do with the availability and/or costs of the drives, or if they have been having problems. I'd be worried if I was one of the people who bought any of the previous configurations.

Perhaps somebody who truly knows what is going on could step in? We could speculate on possibilities, rumors, and sheer guesses for months here, otherwise.

[comer]

isn't that just a UI bug?

That's what unclear at this point.

if so I'm sure they will fix it. You can't have people showing a negative pecentage of available space so you would think that would be a priority to fix.

I am not sure about this even if it is a UI bug. Tivo does not officially support anything higher than 1T (XL internal) + 1T (My DVR Expander). I don't have 1T drives, so I can not try, but I have a feeling that it would work without this problem.

[comer]

Something odd has been going on, for sure. Nearly immediately after the Premiere could be bought, the upgrade sites were selling them with 4TB (2+2). Then it was only 2TB internal, last I checked it was 2TB (1+1).

I don't know if maybe it has something to do with the availability and/or costs of the drives, or if they have been having problems. I'd be worried if I was one of the people who bought any of the previous configurations.

Perhaps somebody who truly knows what is going on could step in? We could speculate on possibilities, rumors, and sheer guesses for months here, otherwise.

I scoured all the usual suspects and there are only single internal upgrades up to 2T available now. I would be interested to know what happens if somebody who got one of those plugged in My DVR Expander as well :rolleyes:

[comer]

I have to investigate if supersize has anything to do with that ...

Yep, supersize just became a number 1 suspect :( Just expaned and added 2T internal + 320G external with no supersize. Used space bar shows 14% just as it's supposed to (I had 99% of 320G full). Supersized that combination - shows -13% :( I'll prove it conclusively after I try 2T + 1.5T. But it's 90% certain at this point.
Do not panic, I have some ideas ;)

[richsadams]

Yep, supersize just became a number 1 suspect :( Just expaned and added 2T internal + 320G external with no supersize. Used space bar shows 14% just as it's supposed to (I had 99% of 320G full). Supersized that combination - shows -13% :( I'll prove it conclusively after I try 2T + 1.5T. But it's 90% certain at this point.
Do not panic, I have some ideas ;)Awesome work...difficult as it is, we all appreciate it! :up: :up: :up:

[aaronwt]

Wow! You obviously did not go to enough concerts in your younger days! ;)

And that is what really sucks. I got hearing damage in one ear around 5 or 6 years ago because I could not find my sonic earplugs. So like a dumbass I went without any hearing protection. I figured a normal concert at 60 minutes would be fine, but the one we went to lasted over 2.5 hours and I ended up with the hearing damage to that ear since it was directly facing where all the sound was coming from.
So even though that one ear has hearing damage, the frequencies put out by the hard drives and fans are unaffected in that ear which is really annoying.

[lessd]

Yep, supersize just became a number 1 suspect :( Just expaned and added 2T internal + 320G external with no supersize. Used space bar shows 14% just as it's supposed to (I had 99% of 320G full). Supersized that combination - shows -13% :( I'll prove it conclusively after I try 2T + 1.5T. But it's 90% certain at this point.
Do not panic, I have some ideas ;)

This may have been covered in 1000 or so posts in this thread but I just used your tool to expand a TPXL to 2Tb, took 7 hours to copy the original 1Tb disk but the expand worked without any flaws and the TPXL booted up having 301 HD record hours (some 2500 SD record hours). It's run overnight without problems. The TPXL has 14.6 software.
As with others thanks so much for your great work on this Comer.

[comer]

This may have been covered in 1000 or so posts in this thread but I just used your tool to expand a TPXL to 2Tb, took 7 hours to copy the original 1Tb disk but the expand worked without any flaws and the TPXL booted up having 301 HD record hours (some 2500 SD record hours). It's run overnight without problems. The TPXL has 14.6 software.
As with others thanks so much for your great work on this Comer.

Enjoy :)

[Shagger]

FYI there are some INSANE drive deals going on over at Newegg:

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/hot-deals/1040359/

2TB drives for $80 ?!?!? :eek:

[aaronwt]

I think it might be time to replace some more of my 1.5TB drives in my WHS.

[richsadams]

This may have been covered in 1000 or so posts in this thread but I just used your tool to expand a TPXL to 2Tb, took 7 hours to copy the original 1Tb disk but the expand worked without any flaws and the TPXL booted up having 301 HD record hours (some 2500 SD record hours). It's run overnight without problems. The TPXL has 14.6 software.
As with others thanks so much for your great work on this Comer.Nice Les...congrats!

[comer]

I have released jmfs with Supersize.
I am pretty sure Supersize is not responsible for the negative percentage of Used Space Bar. Basically, Tivo has a problem with any extent larger than 2TB. Be it a single drive internal or external, or logical partition. In my experiment with 2TB+320G drives, the total space available for recordings without Supersize was a little smaller than 2TB, actually (TivoClips, not been restricted, take 10% of the recording space). With Supersize (TivoClips restricted to 10G) the total space was just over 2TB.
I don't think we can do anything here, besides pressing Tivo for update. And I highly doubt they will do anything about it, so if you want everything to work correctly - you are limited to 2TB for the time being. However, I think this negative space glitch is pretty harmless. I recorded a few shows, it went from -13% to -15%, but recordings played fine. Let me know if you want to experiment and contribute to long-term test study - I'll show you how to add an external drive ;):D

[jbell73]

I have released jmfs with Supersize.


Very cool! Thank you for the hard work.

Quick question - If someone has already done the upgrade, and they use the updated JMFS boot CD to just enable the supersize feature, or is this only for new drive upgrades?

-Jeff

[comer]

Very cool! Thank you for the hard work.

Quick question - If someone has already done the upgrade, and they use the updated JMFS boot CD to just enable the supersize feature, or is this only for new drive upgrades?

-Jeff

Just like it was - Supersize can be applied at any time. So just connect your drive, boot and choose "Supersize" from the menu :)

[lessd]

Just like it was - Supersize can be applied at any time. So just connect your drive, boot and choose "Supersize" from the menu :)

I just tried it on my 2Tb disk in my TPXL and the record hours went to 317 from 301. This did not change any of the stuff on the hard drive (programs etc.)

Super great job Comer

[Cspot]

I just tried it on my 2Tb disk in my TPXL and the record hours went to 317 from 301. This did not change ant of the stuff on the hard drive (programs etc.)

Super great job Comer

That's good to hear...doing an upgrade to 2tb this week.

[joesebastian]

I have released jmfs with Supersize.

Just ran supersize on a TP 2TB drive. Just awesome!!:)

Before SS:
290 HD or 2543 SD hours in Tivo system Info
22% recording percentage showing in My Shows

After SS:
317 HD or 2779 hrs in Tivo sys info
20% in my shows

Thanks Comer for your excellent work!!!

Joe

[harry99]

[QUOTE=moyekj;8209216]Well looks like I got the wrong Hitachi Deskstar 1TB unit. The model is:
HDS721010CLA332
I hooked it up to SATA on a computer at work and ran the Hitachi utility and it states that Acoustic Management is not supported for this drive. In fact there were hardly any features at all to toggle for this drive. Guess that explains why HDDScan had the AAM setting greyed out for the drive as well.

I had a similar problem - ordered same model Hitachi Deskstar 31000replacements for my THDs - both thru Amazon online 10 days apart - first one was thru CompUSA, the second thru pcbay to save $5. Both came in the exact same box with correct model labels, but both internal labels gave a different part number - the Compusa one was a 11/2009 manufacturing date and the pcbay was a 4/2010 date. I used the hddscan program to set AAM - the one from Compusa came up with the original model number and allowed me to set it to 128. The second one came up with the HDS721010CLA332 model and the AAM was greyed out. The second drive is a little noisier than the first - so am using the first one in the bedroom and the second in the living room where I don't really notice the noise. Anyway, both are working fine.

[lickwid]

Good job Comer. I'll have to give it a shot in the coming days. Hopefully won't have to crack my TiVo open after this.

[SMWinnie]

I've read the thread twice and I'm not sure there's an authoritative answer. Is there any advantage in a Premiere to the EVDS over an EARS with AAM set to 128?

[comer]

I've read the thread twice and I'm not sure there's an authoritative answer. Is there any advantage in a Premiere to the EVDS over an EARS with AAM set to 128?

If you do not consider "tuned for Audio/Video always-on applications" (EVDS) an advantage - then no.

[richsadams]

I've read the thread twice and I'm not sure there's an authoritative answer. Is there any advantage in a Premiere to the EVDS over an EARS with AAM set to 128?To add my two-cents...in TiVo's case? No.

[davidahn]

I was about to upgrade my 7 Tivos (S3 and HD, all 2tb) to Premier, but would rather wait if it's a major pain to easily expand to 4tb later.

7 TiVo Premieres ($199 x 7 = $1400) plus lifetime service even at their current special of $199 each = $2800. Are you made of money, or is there a way to transfer your lifetime membership without paying TiVo?

I have a SINGLE S3 I was going to upgrade to 2 Premieres but didn't want to pay to transfer S3 to S4 (and waste the S3's lifetime). Is there something I'm missing?

David

[wesbc]

BTW the 4K sector build in WD's GP 1TB drives haven't presented any problems for TiVo Series3's, HD's or HDXL's. AFAIK no one has reported any issues with the 2TB models either.

Happy upgrading!

Does that mean Advance Format Drive is ok to use. So with an EARS drive, do we need to set the jumper or leave it as it is setup to use advance formating?

Thanks

[simon7]

Although WD's 2TB hard drives have less than a year of history it would be apparent by now if they had a major problem. Historically there have been hard drives that were obviously problematic and when that happens there are no doubts. The Seagate 1.5TB drive comes to mind. There were literally thousands of reports of problems all over the Internet from the day that they were released. Firmware updates and replacements calmed things down after a few months but a lot of folks still steer clear of them.

So I can understand the concern but looking back the reports of DOA or failed drives is about the same per capita as those for the 1TB models which are widely used by TCF members. The ratings on newegg are four out of five and the same goes for Amazon. As wp746911 mentioned, one thing to keep in mind is that the general public doesn't take the time to rate products and those that do have often had problems so negative reports can really skew things.

Samsung drives on the other hand have never been recommended for TiVo due to their spotty record of performance. There a a few folks using their 1TB Spinpoint drives but there are many more reports of problems either after they were in use for a while or in a number of cases that they wouldn't even boot up. That happened to yours truly a while back. The drive is working fine as a backup but I never could get it to work in a TiVo HD.

FWIW the 1TB WD10EARS is a two-platter drive and the 2TB WD20EARS is a three-platter drive.

Your call of course, but based on the positive experiences of WD's 1TB GP drives over the period of a couple of years, the positive feedback about the 2TB models on this thread (and other forums) as well as current ratings I wouldn't hesitate to use them.

BTW the 4K sector build in WD's GP 1TB drives haven't presented any problems for TiVo Series3's, HD's or HDXL's. AFAIK no one has reported any issues with the 2TB models either.

Happy upgrading!

Thanks for the reply Rich. Based on your advice I was holding off on the 2TB Samsung drive (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152245), but caught it on sale for $59 from Newegg (Shell-shocker w/coupon code that was gone quick!). It just got here, and I'm really tempted to try it in the Premiere (otherwise it will be for backup). I just formatted it and tried a few file copies and it is already very quiet and under Windows. Not sure if I should try to mess with AAM using the Hitachi tool or just leave well enough alone.

BTW, the overall feedback on the preferred WD seems average, but it hit a patch where everything went very, very negative. Maybe they had a production run problem. So far the Samsung drive has been above average, with but with less history. I hear what you are saying though about long-term reliability on the WD drives. I have a 1TB WD in my THD and it has been absolutely great -- but I really think it can be model specific.

[tcfcameron]

Does that mean Advance Format Drive is ok to use. So with an EARS drive, do we need to set the jumper or leave it as it is setup to use advance formating?

Thanks

There have been reports of people using the AF (EARS) drives without any problems. I haven't seen one instance, thus far, of anybody being unsuccessful, in using them.

That jumper is a subject I have not seen (or just can't recall it) being discussed here at TCF.

One very important thing about that jumper: Once the jumper is installed, it must remain installed for the rest of the drive's life.

It is also described as being there as a way to provide full compatibility, and partition alignment, with Windows XP. There is no mention of using the jumper for other partition types.

So, I would strongly advise against using the jumper, if the drive is ever to be used in a TiVo. I'd even advise against using it under any other circumstances, since there is a bootable alignment utility CD available, that won't make permanent changes to the drive and limit what you can use it for in the future.

I skimmed the WD website before posting this, to make sure I was recalling correctly. Have a look, here: http://www.wdc.com/en/products/advancedformat/

[richsadams]

Does that mean Advance Format Drive is ok to use. So with an EARS drive, do we need to set the jumper or leave it as it is setup to use advance formating?

ThanksNo jumpers, as is.

[wesbc]

There have been reports of people using the AF (EARS) drives without any problems. I haven't seen one instance, thus far, of anybody being unsuccessful, in using them.

That jumper is a subject I have not seen (or just can't recall it) being discussed here at TCF.

One very important thing about that jumper: Once the jumper is installed, it must remain installed for the rest of the drive's life.

It is also described as being there as a way to provide full compatibility, and partition alignment, with Windows XP. There is no mention of using the jumper for other partition types.

So, I would strongly advise against using the jumper, if the drive is ever to be used in a TiVo. I'd even advise against using it under any other circumstances, since there is a bootable alignment utility CD available, that won't make permanent changes to the drive and limit what you can use it for in the future.

I skimmed the WD website before posting this, to make sure I was recalling correctly. Have a look, here: http://www.wdc.com/en/products/advancedformat/

Hi, thanks for the detail info. I have an HP media smart running WHS which does not support the advance format and the jumper is required for optimum performance as the alignment software doesn't quite work with WHS. I'm aware that current os Vista and Windows 7 supports the advance formating and with the older os the jumper or alignment utility must be used for optimum performance. Just wasn't sure about TIVO. But with so many reporting success without the jumper I guess that is the way to go.

[Cspot]

Another successful upgrade thanks to Comer's work.

Used the wd20ears, wdidle3'd the drive, then copied, expanded, supersized (rev104) in roughly 2 1/2 hours, result 317 hrs.

[aaronwt]

7 TiVo Premieres ($199 x 7 = $1400) plus lifetime service even at their current special of $199 each = $2800. Are you made of money, or is there a way to transfer your lifetime membership without paying TiVo?

I have a SINGLE S3 I was going to upgrade to 2 Premieres but didn't want to pay to transfer S3 to S4 (and waste the S3's lifetime). Is there something I'm missing?

David

That's a heck of a deal compared to what I paid in the Spring.

How does one get the $199 Lifetime? I still have one box on monthly(the rerst are lifetime). I plan on selling an XL with Lifetime and keeping the regular Premiere and getting Lifetime on it.

EDIT: I didn't realize they were still only charging me $6.95 a month with no commitment. I thought it was supposed to be $9.95 a month.
Since it's only $6.95 a month I might as well keep it on monthly unless I can convince them to give me Lifetime for $150. Otehrwise at $6.95 a month it will take me 3.5 years to break even if I paid for Lifetime at $300. even at $200 it would take almost 2.5 years.

I guess I'll be selling one XL, staying on monthly, and upgrading the drive to 1TB.

Although I want to make sure I keep two boxes with the original drives that have been untouched.

[innocentfreak]

That's a heck of a deal compared to what I paid in the Spring.

How does one get the $199 Lifetime? I still have one box on monthly(the rerst are lifetime). I plan on selling an XL with Lifetime and keeping the regular Premiere and getting Lifetime on it.

Some people who have the $199 upgrade offer for lifetime on their account have been successful talking TiVo reps over the phone into applying it to hardware bought elsewhere.

[dshlyam]

7 TiVo Premieres ($199 x 7 = $1400) plus lifetime service even at their current special of $199 each = $2800. Are you made of money, or is there a way to transfer your lifetime membership without paying TiVo?

I have a SINGLE S3 I was going to upgrade to 2 Premieres but didn't want to pay to transfer S3 to S4 (and waste the S3's lifetime). Is there something I'm missing?

David

Well, considering that I can sell S3 with 2,777 hours and lifetime for about $600 each on eBay, it's essentially a wash, even after overhead. In fact I even have a $50 left over for a keyboard remote.

[dshlyam]

A success!!!

With comer's help in about 5 minute time I have added another 2tb and SuperSize and I have how 5,605 SD hours (640 HD hours) Tivo!

As expected, with 70% of utilization shown in UI before a second upgrade (w/ 2tb internal only) now with 4tb I see a full bar and -290%. Considering that this feature was not available before Premier anyway and I managed for the last 10 years somehow, I can live with this. I will probably pester Tivo to fix it. They don't have to, but just may.

Thank you comer for your hard work! It's very much appreciated.

[comer]

A success!!!

With comer's help in about 5 minute time I have added another 2tb and SuperSize and I have how 5,605 SD hours (640 HD hours) Tivo!

As expected, with 70% of utilization shown in UI before a second upgrade (w/ 2tb internal only) now with 4tb I see a full bar and -290%. Considering that this feature was not available before Premier anyway and I managed for the last 10 years somehow, I can live with this. I will probably pester Tivo to fix it. They don't have to, but just may.

Thank you comer for your hard work! It's very much appreciated.

No problem, enjoy :) Please do let us know how it behaves in a long run and if you notice any glitches besides the negative bar :)

[richsadams]

A success!!!

With comer's help in about 5 minute time I have added another 2tb and SuperSize and I have how 5,605 SD hours (640 HD hours) Tivo!

As expected, with 70% of utilization shown in UI before a second upgrade (w/ 2tb internal only) now with 4tb I see a full bar and -290%. Considering that this feature was not available before Premier anyway and I managed for the last 10 years somehow, I can live with this. I will probably pester Tivo to fix it. They don't have to, but just may.

Thank you comer for your hard work! It's very much appreciated.Congrats on that...awesome.

FWIW I wouldn't recommend discussing any of this with TiVo. The front line folks wouldn't have a clue and anyone higher would likely not be helpful at all. TiVo has always turned a blind eye to enthusiast's upgrades and the like, however they don't have to. They could easily make our lives a great deal more difficult if they wanted to. So I wouldn't polk the bear unnecessarily. ;)

Enjoy!

[tcfcameron]

Congrats on that...awesome.

FWIW I wouldn't recommend discussing any of this with TiVo. The front line folks wouldn't have a clue and anyone higher would likely not be helpful at all. TiVo has always turned a blind eye to enthusiast's upgrades and the like, however they don't have to. They could easily make our lives a great deal more difficult if they wanted to. So I wouldn't polk the bear unnecessarily. ;)

Enjoy!

Agreed!

I hate to post this, but I feel it applies, as many have been waiting on Premiere DIY upgrade options, before ordering/buying one:
TiVo just updated their contract terms/conditions/rules/pricing:
http://www.tivo.com/abouttivo/policies/tivoservicepaymentplanstermsandconditions.html

Don't forget to review the MSD parts, as well.

[comer]

Agreed!

I hate to post this, but I feel it applies, as many have been waiting on Premiere DIY upgrade options, before ordering/buying one:
TiVo just updated their contract terms/conditions/rules/pricing:
http://www.tivo.com/abouttivo/policies/tivoservicepaymentplanstermsandconditions.html

Don't forget to review the MSD parts, as well.

I have an allergy to legalese. :D Any particular points to read?

[comer]

Congrats on that...awesome.

FWIW I wouldn't recommend discussing any of this with TiVo. The front line folks wouldn't have a clue and anyone higher would likely not be helpful at all. TiVo has always turned a blind eye to enthusiast's upgrades and the like, however they don't have to. They could easily make our lives a great deal more difficult if they wanted to. So I wouldn't polk the bear unnecessarily. ;)

Enjoy!

I hope WD makes "My Expander" in capacities more than 1T. That will make Tivo move ;)

[retiredqwest]

No problem, enjoy :) Please do let us know how it behaves in a long run and if you notice any glitches besides the negative bar :)

Comer,

I tried to add my 1TB WD DVR Expander to my 2TB and it would never load. It went thru the gyrations; the thumbs and enter, rebooting but it just kept recycling back to the beginning. I gave up after 3 tries. Then when I disconnected the sata cable the Premiere rebooted and went on its merry way.

I was just curious.....

Scotty

[craiggers14]

Long story...but I messed up the copying process and now my upgraded drive (1TB WD Green made in June 2010) hangs at the boot screen in my premiere. I definitely left it to boot for nearly an hour...Is anyone willing to share their saved copy of the 320gb image?

Thanks in advance.

[comer]

Long story...but I messed up the copying process and now my upgraded drive (1TB WD Green made in June 2010) hangs at the boot screen in my premiere. I definitely left it to boot for nearly an hour...Is anyone willing to share their saved copy of the 320gb image?

Thanks in advance.

You don't have your original drive anymore?

[comer]

Comer,

I tried to add my 1TB WD DVR Expander to my 2TB and it would never load. It went thru the gyrations; the thumbs and enter, rebooting but it just kept recycling back to the beginning. I gave up after 3 tries. Then when I disconnected the sata cable the Premiere rebooted and went on its merry way.

I was just curious.....

Scotty

Quite possible it is one of the manifestation of the 2TB limit. You can add your external drive by means of JMFS, however. PM me if interested.

@all: I do not post the "add external" method in the guide, because it most definitely leads to the known glitch. By asking me about it via PM, you implicitly acknowledge that you know what you are doing, are willing to be a guinea pig and understand the consequences.

[craiggers14]

You don't have your original drive anymore?

I moved it to the tivo HD that I have...already overwrote it with the image from the original 160gb drive.

[joesebastian]

A success!!!

With comer's help in about 5 minute time I have added another 2tb and SuperSize and I have how 5,605 SD hours (640 HD hours) Tivo!

As expected, with 70% of utilization shown in UI before a second upgrade (w/ 2tb internal only) now with 4tb I see a full bar and -290%. Considering that this feature was not available before Premier anyway and I managed for the last 10 years somehow, I can live with this. I will probably pester Tivo to fix it. They don't have to, but just may.

Thank you comer for your hard work! It's very much appreciated.

dshlyam,
What external 2tb enclosure and hard drive model did you use? I will PM comer for the instructions but want to make sure I have the hardware.

Thanks!

[dshlyam]

dshlyam,
What external 2tb enclosure and hard drive model did you use? I will PM comer for the instructions but want to make sure I have the hardware.

Thanks!

I had multiple Tivos over the last 3-4 years working great with some of the cheapest enclosures out there. Right now I'm using xtrastor esata enclosure, but I'm pretty sure almost any other enclosure will do. (I just did a quick search and check ebay item 130407248341 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=130407248341). I used to buy these for about $15 shipped, but it seems that the price went up a little bit)

As for the drive, I'm using WD WD20EARS that have been on sale for about $80 lately, but again many other drives should do just fine.

Essentially being a cheapskate, I usually go for the cheapest solution. I strongly recommend reading the drive expansion FAQ (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784).

[ckgoodwin]

Just wanted to say yet another thanks to Comer for making and maintaining the jmfs isos. Yesterday I upgraded my stock Premier to 2TB using an $89 WD20EARS (mfg 9/17). It took about 4hrs and 45 mins to copy the factory drive over (source on eSata, target on sata-USB adapter). Expanded and supersized and am now at 317 hrs HD. No problems with soft reboots. Sweet!

I went ahead and sent over a contribution to your beer fund via the Donate button Comer. Many thanks...

- Chris

[gamo62]

Hey guys. I have a couple of questions about hard drives? Microcenter has a good deal on the Barracuda LP ST320005N4A1AS 2TB 5900 RPM drive. I also see a Spinpoint and the WD Caviar Green WD20EARS drive. They are all about the same price within $5.00. Which one should I go with? Thanks!

[comer]

Hey guys. I have a couple of questions about hard drives? Microcenter has a good deal on the Barracuda LP ST320005N4A1AS 2TB 5900 RPM drive. I also see a Spinpoint and the WD Caviar Green WD20EARS drive. They are all about the same price within $5.00. Which one should I go with? Thanks!

It seems that the drive manufacturer of choice here is WD. Nothing particularly wrong with others, just no statistic, everybody is using WD :)

[richsadams]

Just wanted to say yet another thanks to Comer for making and maintaining the jmfs isos. Yesterday I upgraded my stock Premier to 2TB using an $89 WD20EARS (mfg 9/17). It took about 4hrs and 45 mins to copy the factory drive over (source on eSata, target on sata-USB adapter). Expanded and supersized and am now at 317 hrs HD. No problems with soft reboots. Sweet!

I went ahead and sent over a contribution to your beer fund via the Donate button Comer. Many thanks...

- ChrisThanks for the valuable model and manufacture date info. :up: Good to know that you didn't have to run wdidle3.exe to adjust the Intellipark timeout. So far September 15th still seems to be the magic date where the soft reboot issue is no longer an issue.

Enjoy your "new" TiVo!

[richsadams]

Hey guys. I have a couple of questions about hard drives? Microcenter has a good deal on the Barracuda LP ST320005N4A1AS 2TB 5900 RPM drive. I also see a Spinpoint and the WD Caviar Green WD20EARS drive. They are all about the same price within $5.00. Which one should I go with? Thanks!As Comer mentions, the WD drives are top of the list. I'd avoid the Samsung drives based on a couple of years of issues with 1TB upgrades...although a few folks have them in service others have not been so lucky and they've never been on the recommended list.

[gamo62]

I just bought the WD WD20EARS 2tb Green Drive with a date of 10-17-2010? Am I good regarding the Intellipark issue? And also, will this drive allow me to adjust the Acoustic management? Thanks.

[richsadams]

I just bought the WD WD20EARS 2tb Green Drive with a date of 10-17-2010? Am I good regarding the Intellipark issue? And also, will this drive allow me to adjust the Acoustic management? Thanks.Yes...it looks like you won't have to deal with the Intellipark issue since the drive was manufactured after 9/15/10. Also yes, you can adjust the AAM to 128 (quietest setting) with hddscan (http://www.hddscan.com). (BTW you can do that at any time...before or after upgrading the drive.)

[gamo62]

Yes...it looks like you won't have to deal with the Intellipark issue since the drive was manufactured after 9/15/10. Also yes, you can adjust the AAM to 128 (quietest setting) with hddscan (http://www.hddscan.com). (BTW you can do that at any time...before or after upgrading the drive.)

Thanks for the info. I bought the drive, adjusted the AAM to 128, am patiently waiting on the new unit to arrive. The supersize option on comer's file? Is that for internal as well as external? or the other way around? I've created a Boot CD with the file, and have done a dry run boot. It gets to the looking for a Tivo drive portion. I'm hoping everything else is as easy as it has been upto this point. Thanks again.

[craiggers14]

I moved it to the tivo HD that I have...already overwrote it with the image from the original 160gb drive.

Anyone out there with any other suggestions?

[ilkevinli]

I think your only option would be to buy a drive on ebay that has the image for the premiere on it.


Anyone out there with any other suggestions?

[Bai Shen]

So why is the Intellipark setting such a big deal for a Tivo? I have two of the drives running in a NAS with no problems.

[lessd]

So why is the Intellipark setting such a big deal for a Tivo? I have two of the drives running in a NAS with no problems.

On some TiVos with some WD Intellipark drives the TiVo would not do a soft re-boot, a hard re-boot was no problem, but a soft reboot happens each time TiVo updated the software and the TiVo would never finish the boot unless you unplugged the unit, so if you were not home your TiVo would not be record anything until you got home saw the problem and unplugged the TiVo.

[Jonathan_S]

On some TiVos with some WD Intellipark drives the TiVo would not do a soft re-boot, a hard re-boot was no problem, but a soft reboot happens each time TiVo updated the software and the TiVo would never finish the boot unless you unplugged the unit, so if you were not home your TiVo would not be record anything until you got home saw the problem and unplugged the TiVo.
And the assumption is that during a soft reboot TiVo goes just long enough without poking the drive that it parks itself and then Tivo can't handle booting with the parked drive. (Maybe some timing thing goes wrong, or the drive kick back a temporary error while it's spinning back up and TiVo doesn't handle it correctly)

But the TiVo just sits there without ever moving on to booting the TiVo App off the drive.

A longer delay or disabling Intellipark (so it doesn't trigger during a soft reboot) works around the problem. Presumably adding a more robust error handling to TiVo's boot sequece would be the proper fix, but it's not one upgraders can do themselves.

[Bai Shen]

Interesting.

[richsadams]

Thanks for the info. I bought the drive, adjusted the AAM to 128, am patiently waiting on the new unit to arrive. The supersize option on comer's file? Is that for internal as well as external? or the other way around? I've created a Boot CD with the file, and have done a dry run boot. It gets to the looking for a Tivo drive portion. I'm hoping everything else is as easy as it has been upto this point. Thanks again.Supersize only applies to internal drives. Since you're going to upgrade your Premiere's internal to 2TB's, it looks like you don't want to go down the external path. There are apparently issues with anything >2TB's.

Happy upgrading!

[Mgnyc11]

I successfully upgraded to a 2 TB drive. This was the drive I purchased for a $90 special.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136514

Only issue I had was my CD was corrupt because I burned the ISO over the network and while it booted up successfully the copy did not work. Otherwise 2.5 hrs later I have more recording space than I know what to do with! :)

Thanks so much Comer!

[comer]

I successfully upgraded to a 2 TB drive. This was the drive I purchased for a $90 special.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136514

Only issue I had was my CD was corrupt because I burned the ISO over the network and while it booted up successfully the copy did not work. Otherwise 2.5 hrs later I have more recording space than I know what to do with! :)

Thanks so much Comer!

Enjoy! :D

[Idol]

I've been trying to follow the updates to Comer's upgrade tool in this thread, but I want to verify a couple things before I try it out.

The latest jmfs version 104 with supersize will expand a 2 TB drive to around 317 hours?

The issue with the negative counter only occurs when trying to add a second external drive to the system, correct?

Thanks

[gamo62]

Thanks to everyone here who helped me thru the upgrade. After 9 Hours, I now have a 2TB PXL. I had no idea that it took so long, but it is a 1TB native. I suppose if I only had the Premiere, it wouldn't have had taken that long.

But I wasn't in a hurry, and wanted to make sure it was done right. Thanks again!

[comer]

I've been trying to follow the updates to Comer's upgrade tool in this thread, but I want to verify a couple things before I try it out.

The latest jmfs version 104 with supersize will expand a 2 TB drive to around 317 hours?

The issue with the negative counter only occurs when trying to add a second external drive to the system, correct?

Thanks

All correct.

[gamo62]

Thanks to everyone here who helped me thru the upgrade. After 9 Hours, I now have a 2TB PXL. I had no idea that it took so long, but it is a 1TB native. I suppose if I only had the Premiere, it wouldn't have had taken that long.

But I wasn't in a hurry, and wanted to make sure it was done right. Thanks again!

OK. After the service update, I am only able to view Live TV. I cannot go to the menus at all. Pressing the Tivo button does nothing. Any idea what might be going on here? Thanks.

[gamo62]

Are there any kickstart codes for the Premiere/XL? I may try that before I recopy the hard drive. Thanks.

[comer]

Are there any kickstart codes for the Premiere/XL? I may try that before I recopy the hard drive. Thanks.

Did you try to reboot - as in "disconnect and reconnect the power"?

[Hybrid]

Are there any kickstart codes for the Premiere/XL? I may try that before I recopy the hard drive. Thanks.

that happened way back with my series 1 and 2 I was told that tivo does not checksum the update before it's applied, I hope that is no longer the case now days, I also hope you still have the original drive, you might need to redo the drive from the working one.

[richsadams]

that happened way back with my series 1 and 2 I was told that tivo does not checksum the update before it's applied, I hope that is no longer the case now days, I also hope you still have the original drive, you might need to redo the drive from the working one.TiVoJerry confirmed that TiVo has checksum built in to all of their updates.

[richsadams]

Are there any kickstart codes for the Premiere/XL? I may try that before I recopy the hard drive. Thanks.As Comer said, try a power cycle (unplug TiVo, wait about 10 seconds for the drive to spin down and plug it back in).

All of the Kickstart diagnostic and repair programs work with the Premiere, although the process is slightly different than with earlier models (scroll down to the bottom of the post for Premiere-specific instructions):

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

However, that would be my last resort. Based on numerous posts about successful upgrades, there's no reason yours shouldn't be successful as well. As Hybrid says, it might take starting over again to get it right.

[Hybrid]

thank you comer some real thanks going your way for beer.

I think the % bar indeed has a bug because I accidentally pressed twice the clear button to delete a recording and my % bar went from 4% to 0% even thou I had other recordings in there, I could not get it right until I recovered the deleted show then pressed clear once, yes I could recreate it by doing the same.

if anyone is interested in saving a copy of the image, gzip compressed it a bit while not being awfully painful on the waiting for me "time" gave me 434 minute/7.2 Hrs of course YMMV, I tried lzip,bzip2 but it was going to take around 7 days with the fast compression setting

my image compressed to 239 GiB

I guess most will use the live cd, if anyone wants the command/s I'll edit this

[Hybrid]

TiVoJerry confirmed that TiVo has checksum built in to all of their updates.

thanks, I'm glad that's no longer the case.

[meyerovb]

I am swapping in a WD20EURS to a Premiere unit. Because it is an AV-GP drive, is it still recommended I modify it's AAM? If so, should I set it to 128?

Drive manufacture date October 13, 2010. With that date, is it recommended I modify anything else on the drive (like intellipark or something else I haven't read about in the forum yet)?

Thanks!

[gamo62]

As Comer said, try a power cycle (unplug TiVo, wait about 10 seconds for the drive to spin down and plug it back in).

All of the Kickstart diagnostic and repair programs work with the Premiere, although the process is slightly different than with earlier models (scroll down to the bottom of the post for Premiere-specific instructions):

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showpost.php?p=5643823&postcount=2

However, that would be my last resort. Based on numerous posts about successful upgrades, there's no reason yours shouldn't be successful as well. As Hybrid says, it might take starting over again to get it right.

I ended up doing the Kicstart 52 code. For the life of me, all I got was LiveTV. Not even able to get to the menu whatsoever. After the reinstall, everything came up fine. Thanks again.

Are there commands on the CD that will allow a person to back up the image? If not, is there an easy way to do so?

[richsadams]

I am swapping in a WD20EURS to a Premiere unit. Because it is an AV-GP drive, is it still recommended I modify it's AAM? If so, should I set it to 128?

Drive manufacture date October 13, 2010. With that date, is it recommended I modify anything else on the drive (like intellipark or something else I haven't read about in the forum yet)?

Thanks!Welcome to the forum. Since the WD20EURS is an AV dedicated drive the AAM default is already 128. Since the drive was manufactured after 09/15/10 you shouldn't have to tweak the Intellipark timeout setting. You should be good to go as is!

[richsadams]

I ended up doing the Kicstart 52 code. For the life of me, all I got was LiveTV. Not even able to get to the menu whatsoever. After the reinstall, everything came up fine. Thanks again.

Are there commands on the CD that will allow a person to back up the image? If not, is there an easy way to do so?Glad to hear things are good. :up: Enjoy!

[meyerovb]

Thanks rich!

I'm wondering if the regular green drive with aam adjusted would be the same exact thing as an av-gp, or if there are actual physical differences to the drive?

Also, any chance the premiere can take >2tb drive? Like a WD30EZRSDTL?

[gamo62]

Thanks rich!

I'm wondering if the regular green drive with aam adjusted would be the same exact thing as an av-gp, or if there are actual physical differences to the drive?

Also, any chance the premiere can take >2tb drive? Like a WD30EZRSDTL?

I'm not sure if the file system can support a 3tb drive. Right now the price is prohibitive for a 3tb drive. $259.00 You can get a 2TB for under $100.

[richsadams]

Thanks rich!

I'm wondering if the regular green drive with aam adjusted would be the same exact thing as an av-gp, or if there are actual physical differences to the drive?

Also, any chance the premiere can take >2tb drive? Like a WD30EZRSDTL?There are differences but as far as TiVo is concerned a WD GP drive with the AAM adjusted to 128 would be equal to WD's AV GP line of drives.

Unfortunately there seem to be partition issues when trying to upgrade any TiVo over the 2TB size. Various vendors were selling 4TB kits (2TB internal/2TB external) however that went away a while back. JMFS author Comer worked on this as well and has run into some snags so recommends against it, at least for now.

[richsadams]

Right now the price is prohibitive for a 3tb drive. $259.00 LOL. I vividly recall the day that the KS62 hack for adding an eSATA drive to a TiVo Series3 was discovered (long before TiVo added the external plug and play option for the general masses). A bunch of us rushed out and bought the largest bare drives available at the time, 500GB's, and external enclosures (add another $60) to get that "huge" additional recording space! At the time a 500GB Seagate DB35 drive cost, you guessed it, $259...on sale! :eek: (Still have it running as a backup drive today!)

I have no doubt that if it would work some folks wouldn't hesitate a moment to slip a 3TB drive into their TiVo...even at that "prohibitive" price. ;)

[comer]

Thanks rich!

I'm wondering if the regular green drive with aam adjusted would be the same exact thing as an av-gp, or if there are actual physical differences to the drive?

Also, any chance the premiere can take >2tb drive? Like a WD30EZRSDTL?

Here's your answer: post #963 (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8186764#post8186764).

[netringer]

I am swapping in a WD20EURS to a Premiere unit. ..
Thanks for the mention. I see I can get one of those for $120-$130. I'm going to order one immediately.

... Neither as an internal nor as an external drive (the upcoming version of jmfs has an ability to add any drive as external - ala "bless"). ...
So, again, looks like Tivo Premiere is hard-limited to 4T total storage ..

Now THAT is the good news!

Comer, can I ask for some assurance that it's looking like if we do a single 2TB internal upgrade the external 2TB can be added and blessed at a later time while preserving recordings?

[comer]

Thanks for the mention. I see I can get one of those for $120-$130. I'm going to order one immediately.



Now THAT is the good news!

Comer, can I ask for some assurance that it's looking like if we do a single 2TB internal upgrade the external 2TB can be added and blessed at a later time while preserving recordings?

That was before the "nagative space" bug was discovered, sorry :)
I don't think I or anyone else beside Tivo can do anything here.
So to answer your question once and for all - yes, you can add an external storage now without losing your recordings. You will experience the "negative space" bug though. Nobody knows if "negative space" is the full extent and the only effect of it.

[richsadams]

Apologies for misspeaking earlier...I knew there was an issue with 4TB TiVo upgrades, but if it's only the negative reads on the usage meter, seems like it's not a big deal. :o

[lessd]

Apologies for misspeaking earlier...I knew there was an issue with 4TB TiVo upgrades, but if it's only the negative reads on the usage meter, seems like it's not a big deal. :o

I think the point is not the negative read but if there is something other than that going on that if you did get passed 327 hours of HD programs you may see other problems (like not being able to go past 327 hours etc. and still have the program) The people that first offered that 4Tb option have for some reason stopped, is the only reason the neg read ??

[richsadams]

I think the point is not the negative read but if there is something other than that going on that if you did get passed 327 hours of HD programs you may see other problems (like not being able to go past 327 hours etc. and still have the program) The people that first offered that 4Tb option have for some reason stopped, is the only reason the neg read ??Indeed, everyone pulling their 4TB retail option is worrisome and must have some basis in issues and returns they were having of some sort. :confused:

[gespears]

Hey Comer, the 3tb test you did was with a Segate. Do you think there is a chance it would be different with a WD?

Hmmmm?

Thanks.

[tcfcameron]

The EASY way to set AAM & Idle Timer on WD drives:

I have accidentally stumbled upon an easy way to get your new WD GP or AV-GP drive(s) set up with your desired AAM & Idle Timer settings, WITHOUT HAVING TO MESS AROUND WITH YOUR BIOS SETTINGS!

1. Download the IBM/Hitachi Feature Tool v2.12 - It must be the floppy disk version, that includes an installer that creates the bootable disk. IT MUST BE VERSION 2.12.

2. Download "WDIDLE3.EXE" v1.05 (earlier versions don't work with the newest drives).

3. After creating the Feature Tool bootable disk, simply copy WDIDLE3.EXE to the same disk.

4. Forget about changing your BIOS settings (the SATA/IDE mode settings), as it won't be necessary.

5. With your WD hard drive(s) hooked up, and the floppy disk inserted, power-on your computer. Let the floppy boot up into the Feature Tool software.

6. Use the Feature Tool software to set your desired AAM setting.

7. Exit the Feature Tool software, turn on CAPS LOCK, run WDIDLE3.EXE /? from the command prompt to get the list of options. Set your desired timeout (which should be /D for "Disabled" when the drive is going to be used in a TiVo).

8. Power down, or reboot, depending on what you want to do next. These settings can be changed at ANY TIME, without affecting the data on the drive.

Why does this work? It's because the Feature Tool software loads the appropriate drivers and sets the communication mode in a way that allows changes to be made to the drive's settings.

It's very likely that this can be done with a CD/DVD or flash drive. But, I have not verified that yet.

[comer]

Hey Comer, the 3tb test you did was with a Segate. Do you think there is a chance it would be different with a WD?

Hmmmm?

Thanks.

I doubt. Given various issues Tivo has with 2TB barrier and the fact (I reiterated a few times) that 2TB is 4 byte with all bits set (the max number that can be expressed in 4 bytes) of 512-byte blocks - I firmly believe that Tivo just won't work on/with anything larger than 2TB. It's just not made for it.

[richsadams]

The EASY way to set AAM & Idle Timer on WD drives:

I have accidentally stumbled upon an easy way to get your new WD GP or AV-GP drive(s) set up with your desired AAM & Idle Timer settings, WITHOUT HAVING TO MESS AROUND WITH YOUR BIOS SETTINGS!

1. Download the IBM/Hitachi Feature Tool v2.12 - It must be the floppy disk version, that includes an installer that creates the bootable disk. IT MUST BE VERSION 2.12.

2. Download "WDIDLE3.EXE" v1.05 (earlier versions don't work with the newest drives).

3. After creating the Feature Tool bootable disk, simply copy WDIDLE3.EXE to the same disk.

4. Forget about changing your BIOS settings (the SATA/IDE mode settings), as it won't be necessary.

5. With your WD hard drive(s) hooked up, and the floppy disk inserted, power-on your computer. Let the floppy boot up into the Feature Tool software.

6. Use the Feature Tool software to set your desired AAM setting.

7. Exit the Feature Tool software, turn on CAPS LOCK, run WDIDLE3.EXE /? from the command prompt to get the list of options. Set your desired timeout (which should be /D for "Disabled" when the drive is going to be used in a TiVo).

8. Power down, or reboot, depending on what you want to do next. These settings can be changed at ANY TIME, without affecting the data on the drive.

Why does this work? It's because the Feature Tool software loads the appropriate drivers and sets the communication mode in a way that allows changes to be made to the drive's settings.

It's very likely that this can be done with a CD/DVD or flash drive. But, I have not verified that yet.And then pop your Seals and Crofts cassette in, sit back and relax. Kidding. :D I actually have a USB floppy drive...somewhere around here. :o Thanks for the tip(s). I'd imagine it would work with a CD or thumb drive as well (providing the BIOS is set to allow booting from either first ;) ).

I never had to change any BIOS settings to run either program, but I know there are folks that have so it will be great if it works for everyone, on everyone's computer. Nice work. :up:

[NYHeel]

Quick question,

Can I use a 2TB drive that I currently have in my TivoHD for a Premiere upgrade with JMFS? Obviously, I don't expect to keep the recordings. Also, if I can, do I need to wipe the drive clean or will JMFS do that for me? Lastly, if I have to do the drive wiping myself, anyone know any good tool for that? Thanks for the help.

[lessd]

Quick question,

Can I use a 2TB drive that I currently have in my TivoHD for a Premiere upgrade with JMFS? Obviously, I don't expect to keep the recordings. Also, if I can, do I need to wipe the drive clean or will JMFS do that for me? Lastly, if I have to do the drive wiping myself, anyone know any good tool for that? Thanks for the help.

YES you do not have to do anything to the 2Tb drive just make sure you know what drive is the original as the source and the other drive (2Tb) will be copied to.
But for $99 I would consider a new 2Tb drive to put into a new TiVo.

[gespears]

I doubt. Given various issues Tivo has with 2TB barrier and the fact (I reiterated a few times) that 2TB is 4 byte with all bits set (the max number that can be expressed in 4 bytes) of 512-byte blocks - I firmly believe that Tivo just won't work on/with anything larger than 2TB. It's just not made for it.

Bummer.

[plazman30]

So I just read through way too much of this thread. I assume that the version that is supposed to allow you to bless an external drive for use on a Tivo has not been released yet?

[comer]

So I just read through way too much of this thread. I assume that the version that is supposed to allow you to bless an external drive for use on a Tivo has not been released yet?

No. Tivo has an issue with too much of storage :)

[cherry ghost]

I'm going to attempt a 2TB WDEARS(9/08) in my Premiere. Can anyone give me a quick pointer on what I need to do other than the instructions in Comer's sig?

[plazman30]

I see a lot of people using the WD AV drives. Are these drives really better for AV applications? I have 2 1 TB drives lying around, both Seagate. Should I consider using one of them, or do the AV drives withstand the 24/7 writing the Tivo does to the HD better than a standard hard drive does?

[dshlyam]

So, less than 2 weeks after adding external 2TB drive, my TIVO is not longer functioning. The counter got to -380% and then Tivo got stuck in reboot cycle with GSODs in between.

Not good, not good...

[dshlyam]

Update:

Disconnected external storage, went through Tivo storage removal process, everything is back to normal, except that pretty much everything recorded since last two weeks is gone.

Interesting observation. It appears that Tivo used the external drive for all new recordings, at least based on the removal pattern. Also the 3xTD + Enter could only be entered with Tivo IR remote, not the RF with a keyboard.

Granted my experience does not constitute a full regression test. It's possible that my external drive was bad, but I think I'll wait a bit more before I experiment again with a "production" system. My better half lost her latest Desperate Housewives and couldn't use Tivo for the whole day today, so I'm in trouble now... :)

[lessd]

Update:

Disconnected external storage, went through Tivo storage removal process, everything is back to normal, except that pretty much everything recorded since last two weeks is gone.

Interesting observation. It appears that Tivo used the external drive for all new recordings, at least based on the removal pattern. Also the 3xTD + Enter could only be entered with Tivo IR remote, not the RF with a keyboard.

Granted my experience does not constitute a full regression test. It's possible that my external drive was bad, but I think I'll wait a bit more before I experiment again with a "production" system. My better half lost her latest Desperate Housewives and couldn't use Tivo for the whole day today, so I'm in trouble now... :)

When the professionals stopped offering the 2+2 that was a warning something was not working correctly as been said before, your experience just confirmed a problem. We will all have to live with 327 hours of HD record time until or unless another solution is found.

[comer]

Update:

Disconnected external storage, went through Tivo storage removal process, everything is back to normal, except that pretty much everything recorded since last two weeks is gone.

Interesting observation. It appears that Tivo used the external drive for all new recordings, at least based on the removal pattern. Also the 3xTD + Enter could only be entered with Tivo IR remote, not the RF with a keyboard.

Granted my experience does not constitute a full regression test. It's possible that my external drive was bad, but I think I'll wait a bit more before I experiment again with a "production" system. My better half lost her latest Desperate Housewives and couldn't use Tivo for the whole day today, so I'm in trouble now... :)

I am sorry, man :o Download it and your uberness shall be restored :D
Thanks a lot for trying it, great contribution! :up:

[dshlyam]

When the professionals stopped offering the 2+2 that was a warning something was not working correctly as been said before, your experience just confirmed a problem. We will all have to live with 327 hours of HD record time until or unless another solution is found.

Well, yeah, that what you get for being a guinea pig, but someone has to try it. :) It would've been nice if the "professionals" contributed to the community if only by giving a warning. Both "professionals" gave vague answers about disappearance of 2+2, with one claiming not having drives in stock (!). IMO, the number of enthusiasts willing to do the upgrade themselves is infinitesimal to affect any business model. The "professionals" would get much respect by contributing back to the community that added a great deal to their success.

BTW, I checked the drive, it appears perfectly healthy. All SMART parameters are green, don't see any issues at all. It would be much better if it was a particular bad drive vs. the obvious alternative...

[richsadams]

Update:

Disconnected external storage, went through Tivo storage removal process, everything is back to normal, except that pretty much everything recorded since last two weeks is gone.

Interesting observation. It appears that Tivo used the external drive for all new recordings, at least based on the removal pattern. Also the 3xTD + Enter could only be entered with Tivo IR remote, not the RF with a keyboard.

Granted my experience does not constitute a full regression test. It's possible that my external drive was bad, but I think I'll wait a bit more before I experiment again with a "production" system. My better half lost her latest Desperate Housewives and couldn't use Tivo for the whole day today, so I'm in trouble now... :)Sorry to hear about that...TiVo Pioneers sometimes pay the price for the rest. Thanks for giving it a shot.

FWIW recordings are striped across both the internal and external drives (to meet certain regulations), not dedicated to one or the other so no matter what happens, when an external drive is divorced all recordings made since the expansion drive was attached will be lost.

Glad to hear your second drive is good...you can always repurpose it. At least your TiVo still has 2TB's of real estate! Thanks again for putting yourself out there. :up:

[Phantom Gremlin]

I see a lot of people using the WD AV drives. Are these drives really better for AV applications? I have 2 1 TB drives lying around, both Seagate. Should I consider using one of them, or do the AV drives withstand the 24/7 writing the Tivo does to the HD better than a standard hard drive does?

One thing to consider about A/V drives is they are probably using a different firmware algorithm to recover from bad sectors.

For a typical consumer drive the mfr sets the firmware to retry and retry and retry and retry for a long time when it encounters a bad sector. That way Joe Sixpack is less likely to lose any files from his porn collection.

But A/V is different. Nobody wants to have a box freeze up while the drive retries. So instead the drive will report an error more quickly (and return bad data). This bad block might cause some pixellation on the screen, but then life goes on, the show goes on.

I don't know how frequently that situation occurs. Sorry to not have anything more constructive to tell you.

[netringer]

I see a lot of people using the WD AV drives. Are these drives really better for AV applications? I have 2 1 TB drives lying around, both Seagate. Should I consider using one of them, or do the AV drives withstand the 24/7 writing the Tivo does to the HD better than a standard hard drive does?

I just ordered a 2TB WD AV drive from Buy.com for $114.

On reading Western Digital product information I got the impression what they have in mind for the design of the AV drives is commercial DVR use, like for CCTV DVRs constantly recording multiple streams or theaters(?) or POS displays. In other words really 7x24 heavy recording use. Yeah, in our TiVo we are constantly recording 2 streams, but some CCTV DVRs record 8 streams.

So the AV drive is overkill for a TiVo but for me it's a good choice to spend the extra $20 or so when I'm buying the drive purposely for the TiVo.

The mission for a regular drive is more random read/write access than a DVR needs. That's why, among other things, for general purpose PC use the more cache on the drive is better, but for DVR use it barely matters.

I'd have no hesitation to use the regular WD Green drive if the street price of the AV drive wasn't that close.

[VideoGrabber]

BTW, I checked the drive, it appears perfectly healthy. All SMART parameters are green, don't see any issues at all. It would be much better if it was a particular bad drive vs. the obvious alternative...

Dan,

just because SMART says things are OK doesn't mean they are. :eek: Also, even if you do a full surface-scan Read with no errors, doesn't mean the drive is OK. (I found that out the hard way, at ~800G in to a 1TB drive, a few years back.) I see people buying new drives all the time and installing them, assuming they must be fine because they are new. Odds are they may be, but a significant percentage are not, depending on brand and how they were packed for shipping. They then report a few weeks or months later about how their new drive went bad so soon, when in fact it was already bad when they slipped it out of the anti-stat bag. :( They just didn't know it yet.

If you really want to know if your drive is 100% or not, I'd recommend that you download and run the Lifeguard Diagnostic utility from Western Digital (http://support.wdc.com/product/download.asp?groupid=607&sid=3&lang=en). This can be run on drives from any manufacturer.

Run the Quick Test first, which will weed out any obviously bad drives in about a minute. I also like to start (and then stop after 20 seconds) the Extended Test, which exercises the servos to move the heads rapidly around in a random pattern. But then abort, since that test only performs a Read, and won't find all potential problems. The last step is the slow one, which is Write Zeroes with Full Erase. You'll find that on a 2 TB drive this will run for 22-23 hours (at least mine does, off a SATA-USB2 interface cable... eSATA may be faster), but when it finishes you'll know for sure. If there are any spots on the drive where blocks cannot be successfully written, this will find them.

Using this methodology has kept me from putting ~7 defective drives into operation over the years (which went right back to Newegg), out of about 100 or so. Of course, not all of those were 2 TB drives, maybe 50 or 60 (the majority were 1.5 TBs). I found the time spent on burn-in acceptance testing to be very worthwhile to me. YMMV.

[Phantom Gremlin]

Also, even if you do a full surface-scan Read with no errors, doesn't mean the drive is OK. (I found that out the hard way, at ~800G in to a 1TB drive, a few years back.) I see people buying new drives all the time and installing them, assuming they must be fine because they are new. Odds are they may be, but a significant percentage are not, depending on brand and how they were packed for shipping.

I agree with your observation, and I think a large part of the problem is because consumer grade drives are dirt cheap. Which means the manufacturers can't afford to test them very well.

It takes about 3 hrs to do a single read pass of a 1 TB drive. A manufacturer is making millions of these drives a year. So he can't afford to do too many surface scans on any individual drive. I suspect that the manufacturing test involves no more than 1 full write pass followed by 1 full read test. Or maybe not even that, maybe just a read of 10% of sectors. Plus of course additional tests on a very small subset of sectors. This is not sufficient testing to weed out marginal drives. That's where the end user comes in. They're the final QC.

[cherry ghost]

success with a WD20EARS! lowered AAM to 128, ran wdidle3, copied, expanded, supersized. No problem with a reboot through the menus.

Thanks Comer!!! and Rich!! and everyone else!

[comer]

success with a WD20EARS! lowered AAM to 128, ran wdidle3, copied, expanded, supersized. No problem with a reboot through the menus.

Thanks Comer!!! and Rich!! and everyone else!

No problem :) Congratulations, enjoy! :D

[plazman30]

Comer,

You were going to try and find a way to get any external to work on a Tivo. Have you given up on that?

[comer]

Comer,

You were going to try and find a way to get any external to work on a Tivo. Have you given up on that?

External - no problem. More than 2TB - no way. :)
So if you want to add a 100G external to stock 320G - it's all fine.
But if you expanded to full 2TB and want to add 100G to that - there's a bug.

[plazman30]

So, if I bought an external, say a 1 TB. How do I get that to work with my Tivo Premiere?

[JSearfoss]

Does this upgrade process transfer the current content on the drive so you don't have to get the cable card re-paired ?

[richsadams]

Does this upgrade process transfer the current content on the drive so you don't have to get the cable card re-paired ?Yes.

[JSearfoss]

Yes.

Thanks. Think I will give it a try. I like the idea of having the original drive as a backup. In case a drive goes bad some day.

[richsadams]

Thanks. Think I will give it a try. I like the idea of having the original drive as a backup. In case a drive goes bad some day.Excellent plan. :up: Happy upgrading!

[vurbano]

Anyone experienced an unexpected reboot? I had one happen yesterday.

[H8ff0000]

I'm about to have my Premiere arrive in the mail any day now. I was wondering, could I make an image of the original drive? As in, a file or set of files backed up on my PC. I was thinking maybe doing an image of the original and then doing some heavy duty LZMA2 compression.

[ovitevol]

Hi All, I am about to buy a 2TB drive for Tivo Premiere Upgrade? Which one should I pick? Thanks!!!!

Western Digital 2 TB Caviar Green SATA Intellipower 64 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Desktop Hard Drive WD20EARS

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002ZCXK0I/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

OR

Seagate Barracuda LP 2 TB 5900RPM SATA 3 GB/s 32 MB Cache 3.5-Inch Internal Hard Drive ST32000542AS-Bare Drive

http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Barracuda-3-5-Inch-Internal-ST32000542AS-Bare/dp/B0028Y4CY6/ref=pd_ecc_rvi_cart_1

[richsadams]

Hi All, I am about to buy a 2TB drive for Tivo Premiere Upgrade? Which one should I pick? Thanks!!!!

Western Digital 2 TB Caviar Green SATA Intellipower 64 MB Cache Bulk/OEM Desktop Hard Drive WD20EARS

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002ZCXK0I/ref=ord_cart_shr?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

OR

Seagate Barracuda LP 2 TB 5900RPM SATA 3 GB/s 32 MB Cache 3.5-Inch Internal Hard Drive ST32000542AS-Bare Drive

http://www.amazon.com/Seagate-Barracuda-3-5-Inch-Internal-ST32000542AS-Bare/dp/B0028Y4CY6/ref=pd_ecc_rvi_cart_1I'd go with the WD20EARS since it's a proven commodity here. The Seagate may work fine, but AFAIK it's untested w/TiVo.

[dshlyam]

Run the Quick Test first, which will weed out any obviously bad drives in about a minute. I also like to start (and then stop after 20 seconds) the Extended Test, which exercises the servos to move the heads rapidly around in a random pattern. But then abort, since that test only performs a Read, and won't find all potential problems. The last step is the slow one, which is Write Zeroes with Full Erase. You'll find that on a 2 TB drive this will run for 22-23 hours (at least mine does, off a SATA-USB2 interface cable... eSATA may be faster), but when it finishes you'll know for sure. If there are any spots on the drive where blocks cannot be successfully written, this will find them.

Thank you for the suggestion. The write test ran for about 5 hours and finished successfully, so it's not the drive... :(

[Idol]

I just finished upgrading my TP with a new WD20EVDS that I bought new on EBay for $95 & free shipping. Everything worked as advertised. The process took around 2 1/2 hours with SATA connections on both drives.

I decide to monitor the temperature of both drives during the copy process with a simple digital thermometer. I found that the 320 GB drive maxed out at 91 deg F, and the 2 TB maxed out at 95 deg F. Not bad considering the additional size and mass of the 2 TB drive.

Thanks for all of your hard work comer, I'll be clicking on your donation button here in the next couple days.

[gator_grabber]

Thanks for the useful info, I was just looking at a WD20EVDS for my unit.

[brewman]

WD drives are generally very reliable. I've used well over 100 WD drives(I'm currently using over forty right now) and have no issues with them.
Granted I'm not using the WD expander, but the three WD external drives I use also have been fine for the last 2 or 3 years.

I tried a WD Expander (500 GB) with my TivoHD and it died within 6 months.

[richsadams]

I just finished upgrading my TP with a new WD20EVDS that I bought new on EBay for $95 & free shipping. Everything worked as advertised. The process took around 2 1/2 hours with SATA connections on both drives.

I decide to monitor the temperature of both drives during the copy process with a simple digital thermometer. I found that the 320 GB drive maxed out at 91 deg F, and the 2 TB maxed out at 95 deg F. Not bad considering the additional size and mass of the 2 TB drive.

Thanks for all of your hard work comer, I'll be clicking on your donation button here in the next couple days.Congrats on your "new" TiVo! Did you run the wdidle3.exe program to adjust or disable the Intellipark timeout feature? If not did you try a menu restart? Either way do you happen to have the drive's manufacture date? TIA!

[TVCricket]

Ok guys, so I'm about to cancel my Directv for a Tivo Premiere, but I'm not sure if the XL is worth it. How easy is the HDD upgrade on these units if I get the regular Premiere? I have upgraded a Series 2 from Weaknees and it was very easy. Thanks.

[Shagger]

Ok guys, so I'm about to cancel my Directv for a Tivo Premiere, but I'm not sure if the XL is worth it. How easy is the HDD upgrade on these units if I get the regular Premiere? I have upgraded a Series 2 from Weaknees and it was very easy. Thanks.

With Comer's CD ISO its really easy - about the same as the series 2 upgrade. The trouble spot for me was disabling the Intellipark since my old motherboard would not recognize SATA drives > 1TB. After I got that done it was easy. I do recommend you wait to clone the drive until after you have any cablecards installed.

[Idol]

Congrats on your "new" TiVo! Did you run the wdidle3.exe program to adjust or disable the Intellipark timeout feature? If not did you try a menu restart? Either way do you happen to have the drive's manufacture date? TIA!

Rich,

I ran wdidle3 on the drive before I ran jmfs. I wouldn't completely disable Intellipark with the /d argument, so it set it at 68 minutes. I think that should be OK. The drive was built November 10, 2010, so I should be past the problem date. It took a couple minutes to download all the ads and junk after it booted, but it's running great now.

[richsadams]

Rich,

I ran wdidle3 on the drive before I ran jmfs. I wouldn't completely disable Intellipark with the /d argument, so it set it at 68 minutes. I think that should be OK. The drive was built November 10, 2010, so I should be past the problem date. It took a couple minutes to download all the ads and junk after it booted, but it's running great now.Good info, thanks and enjoy! :up:

[TVCricket]

With Comer's CD ISO its really easy - about the same as the series 2 upgrade. The trouble spot for me was disabling the Intellipark since my old motherboard would not recognize SATA drives > 1TB. After I got that done it was easy. I do recommend you wait to clone the drive until after you have any cablecards installed.

I don't have cable, so I won't need those. I plan on using strictly OTA-HD. Is the main reason people don't just buy a 1TB E-SATA drive because they cost more? I don't really want to be doing any cloning and copying. I just want more space. Seems like the general consensus here is that the XL really isn't worth the money for essentially a better remote and THX certification.

[TVCricket]

Well I read up on these Premieres and looks like my choices are indeed internal (non-easy method) or e-SATA (1TB). I thought you could just plug any internal or external drive into the Premiere for more capacity. Thanks anyways.

[NYHeel]

Well I read up on these Premieres and looks like my choices are indeed internal (non-easy method) or e-SATA (1TB). I thought you could just plug any internal or external drive into the Premiere for more capacity. Thanks anyways.
It's really easy to upgrade the internal drive. You just burn Comer's ISO file to a CD and get 2 SATA to USB cable/adapters if you don't have a desktop with SATA drives. I used these adapters and they've worked well: http://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-SATA-C35U-Serial-Converter-Adapter/dp/B000E6NGBU/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1291739697&sr=8-8

Then you just stick the CD in the drive, power down the computer (you might need to check your bios to make sure that the CD drive comes before your internal hard drive in the boot-up order but it's probably already set up that way), connect the 2 drives to the 2 adapters (or internally) and start up the computer. Just follow Comer's fairly simple prompts from then on. Really not that bad.

[jayn_j]

Well I read up on these Premieres and looks like my choices are indeed internal (non-easy method) or e-SATA (1TB). I thought you could just plug any internal or external drive into the Premiere for more capacity. Thanks anyways.

From reading these forums, I am leaning toward the internal solution due to reliability.

The e-sata drive is mounted as an extension of the main drive. This means that material is recorded on both drives each time. If either drive fails, all the stored shows are gone. You can't use the external disk as an archive, so what's the point.

E-sata has a habit of disconnecting itself, and I fear that recorded shows may be lost often. That's why I am going internal. That and nearly twice the storage with the internal solution.

[richsadams]

From reading these forums, I am leaning toward the internal solution due to reliability.Wise choice. :up:

[TVCricket]

It's really easy to upgrade the internal drive. You just burn Comer's ISO file to a CD and get 2 SATA to USB cable/adapters if you don't have a desktop with SATA drives. I used these adapters and they've worked well: http://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-SATA-C35U-Serial-Converter-Adapter/dp/B000E6NGBU/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1291739697&sr=8-8

Then you just stick the CD in the drive, power down the computer (you might need to check your bios to make sure that the CD drive comes before your internal hard drive in the boot-up order but it's probably already set up that way), connect the 2 drives to the 2 adapters (or internally) and start up the computer. Just follow Comer's fairly simple prompts from then on. Really not that bad.

This sounds way too complicated for me. I'm computer literate, but I don't feel comfortable doing that.

[scoombs]

This sounds way too complicated for me. I'm computer literate, but I don't feel comfortable doing that.

Then you are NOT computer literate? Let me see if I can relay it even more clearly:

1.) Burn the ISO to a CD
2.) Attach the two SATA drives to a PC
3.) Boot the PC to the CD you just created, and follow the prompts

[aaronwt]

I thought the post was just missing a smiley. I thought it was a joke.


Isn't it?

[scoombs]

I thought the post was just missing a smiley. I thought it was a joke.


Isn't it?

Mine or Cricket's?

[richsadams]

I thought the post was just missing a smiley. I thought it was a joke.


Isn't it?Sounded serious to me.

[Hybrid]

I'm about to have my Premiere arrive in the mail any day now. I was wondering, could I make an image of the original drive? As in, a file or set of files backed up on my PC. I was thinking maybe doing an image of the original and then doing some heavy duty LZMA2 compression.


looks like you missed my post :p

if anyone is interested in saving a copy of the image, gzip compressed it a bit while not being awfully painful on the waiting for me "time" gave me 434 minute/7.2 Hrs of course YMMV, I tried lzip,bzip2 but it was going to take around 7 days with the fast compression setting

my image compressed to 239 GiB

even with plzip that uses all processor cores was going to take around "fast/best compression" 7/16 days to compress, I suggest you to image the virgin drive dont even power the tivo, since it will have most zeros and just gzip with best compression on the fly like I did, but hey if you got the time I say go for it, dont forget to save a checksum of your image.

for anybody FYI. dont pass the -A option to ddrescue, might of been just me but it screwed up my copy "tivo's linux permissions I could see all the internal tivo videos/animations on shows but I could not delete them very strange and funny" I putted my tivo on standby to unplug it and could never boot again I had to copy the drive again without the -A it didnt showed the internal videos anymore, honestly I think that it was only a bizarre once in a lifetime error.

[TVCricket]

So I was under the impression that there was no plug and play drives? Is the reason that people don't really mention sites like Weaknees or eBay is because of the cost?

[richsadams]

So I was under the impression that there was no plug and play drives? Is the reason that people don't really mention sites like Weaknees or eBay is because of the cost?That's pretty much it. TiVo enthusiasts tend to gravitate to DIY. There's absolutely nothing wrong with buying a pre-imaged drive and dropping it in. It's a very good solution for folks that don't want to fool around with a DIY project either because of skill sets or time...or both. The only caveat is that using a third-party drive will basically create a "new" TiVo so cable cards generally have to be re-paired by the cableco. If you use TiVo's new Season Pass Manager (http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/gettivoanywhere/howto_seasonpass-manager.html) (prior to the upgrade) you can easily get those back in place.

Hope that helps and let us know how things go!