Drive upgrades in a Premiere unit?

[RichB]

Linux =\= Unix

Yeah, I thought better of that after I posted :p

- Rich

[vulture99]

I bought a Premiere and upgraded to a 1 TB drive using comer's method. I already had an Ubuntu box and used dd to copy directly from the source drive to the destination drive. I did the upgrade right after I took the Premiere out of the shipping box. Everything went smoothly and the Premiere launched into the guided setup ok.

FYI for anyone using Ubuntu or Debian -- if you want to use the ddrescue command you'll need to install 'gddrescue' rather than 'dd_rescue'.

Thanks comer!

[gamo62]

That's not an option...yet.

I'm a little confused. I know that WinMFS doesn't work. But I was talking about the following:

Under Windows:
Get Windows version of "dd" or "ddrescue"

Create an image of your old Tivo drive: copy disk using the tools above into a file <new image>

Increase the file size to match the size of your new disk. Important! It must not be bigger! It can be smaller, but you will likely underuse your new drive then. To increase the file size you can use included "extendFile" utility:
extendFile.bat +<extent size>
(! plus sign before the number is important !) where "extent size" is the number of bytes to add to the file size.
Most likely you won't be able to extend the file upto the whole new disk in one run. If you get "Isufficient system resources for operation" error or something similar, just run multiple times with smaller numbers.

Same as #5 above ("testLayout.bat <new image>") - should see old numbers

Run "mfsadd.bat <new image>"

Same as #8 above ("testLayout.bat <new image>") - should see new numbers

Copy the updated <new image> on the new drive using tools from step #1.

Has anyone used this method and been successful?

[richsadams]

It appears the links for the bits are no longer working. Could you please post them again? Thank you!Bits? If you mean the original directions, they can be found here...

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8095021#post8095021

Note that a couple fo folks posted about one line needing to be modified, but I'm not sure which one. Perhaps someone can clarify...or have the directions been updated?

[wp746911]

Comer,

You da man!

Everything worked perfectly. I now have 290 HD hours.

There is one minor typo in your instruction on page 11 of this thread.

In Linux instructions step 7 you say: Execute "./mfsadd.bat <new drive>"

That should be: Execute "./mfsadd.sh <new drive>".

Thanks!

Ed

dunno about in windows. I followed the linux step and took me 30 minutes before I remembered the above post. At least in linux you have to run mfsadd.sh instead of mfsadd.bat- dunno about windows though.

[vulture99]

Bits? If you mean the original directions, they can be found here...

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8095021#post8095021

Note that a couple fo folks posted about one line needing to be modified, but I'm not sure which one. Perhaps someone can clarify...or have the directions been updated?

I think he meant that the mediafire download links weren't working. Mediafire was down for a while yesterday.

[comer]

... I think you're right, in a short time Comer's work will probably be streamlined and a little more user friendly. But who's in a hurry? ;)

indeed :D

I am working on putting together a live CD with a few needed tools pre-installed. The main challenge is to create a scripted/guided setup. I recon it's done, but I need to test it in different scenarios and on different hardware (to make sure bootabe CD is compatible with most systems or at least with most systems I can lay my hands on ;))
Every test may take just a few hours, but rounds up to full day with all else in. Don't despair, the help is coming! ...one day :D
Meanwhile, try using a generic live cd as I described, it's not that hard, really ;)

[johnfarmer55]

Ok, sorry for the dumb questions but I'm having a helluva time installing java. I'm using the Ubuntu CD live. I try installing it runnind this:

ubuntu@ubuntu:~/Downloads$ sudo ./jre-6u21-linux-i586-rpm.bin

and I get this every time:

inflating: jre-6u21-linux-i586.rpm
./jre-6u21-linux-i586-rpm.bin: 160: rpm: not found

What am I doing wrong?

[johnfarmer55]

I'm a dumbass! Sorry I just realize that's for the Redhad Package Manager... D'oh!

EDIT: My real confusion seems to be getting Java in the PATH. Any hints?

[rdangel]

I just received my new premier unit. I have not even taken it out of the box yet, so I was wondering if Comer or anyone needed me to try the upgrade on a non-booted/virgin box. I have a 1TB WD10EADS Caviar Green drive to use, will this drive be ok? I'd rather not have to order another drive. I have a 1TB in my Series 3 which is just fine by me so I dont really need the 2TB size

[KenVa]

Comer any new developments on how to get the remaining space that was made available to the S3's with supersize? I just keep wondering if I'm going to have to redo my copy from the original disk when it does come out.

Thanks again for you work

[johnfarmer55]

So I need a C++ compiler to install ddrescue? Man, I'm going to have to learn a lot of linux before I'm done!!

[vulture99]

I just received my new premier unit. I have not even taken it out of the box yet, so I was wondering if Comer or anyone needed me to try the upgrade on a non-booted/virgin box. I have a 1TB WD10EADS Caviar Green drive to use, will this drive be ok? I'd rather not have to order another drive. I have a 1TB in my Series 3 which is just fine by me so I dont really need the 2TB size

I just did this with a 1TB drive on a new Premiere. See http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8124486#post8124486

[vulture99]

So I need a C++ compiler to install ddrescue? Man, I'm going to have to learn a lot of linux before I'm done!!

What Linux distribution are you using? You should just be able to use your package manager to install ddrescue (or gddrescue), and it will automatically install any dependencies.

[johnfarmer55]

What Linux distribution are you using? You should just be able to use your package manager to install ddrescue (or gddrescue), and it will automatically install any dependencies.

The latest Ubuntu... I just figured out to install the g++ package included in the CD and that did it. I installed ddrescue with it and I'm now running it. I imagine it'll be done in a few hours (fingers crossed) and hopefully I'll have my 2Tb TiVo by tonight! :D

[comer]

Comer any new developments on how to get the remaining space that was made available to the S3's with supersize? I just keep wondering if I'm going to have to redo my copy from the original disk when it does come out.

Thanks again for you work

No problem :)

No, no progress. Bootable CD keeps me occupied. The second on my list is "real resize", because the thought that drives >2T will soon come out kinda bothers me. To be able to use those drives in Tivo, we will need to run a "real resize" and "jmfsadd" to expand up to 2T and then onto remaining space (2 resize/expand operations).
So "supersize" is 3rd :) I think it is not a real problem for now, because it only adds about 10% and we should be able to do it at any time later as far as I understand.

[kturcotte]

No problem :)

No, no progress. Bootable CD keeps me occupied. The second on my list is "real resize", because the thought that drives >2T will soon come out kinda bothers me. To be able to use those drives in Tivo, we will need to run a "real resize" and "jmfsadd" to expand up to 2T and then onto remaining space (2 resize/expand operations).
So "supersize" is 3rd :) I think it is not a real problem for now, because it only adds about 10% and we should be able to do it at any time later as far as I understand.

Can the Premiere even address a hard drive larger than 2 TB? I thought that was the limit?

[comer]

Can the Premiere even address a hard drive larger than 2 TB? I thought that was the limit?

To my current knowledge - per partition (I though it was per disk too).
So expanding using 1 partition - either existing or an additional one is not an option. Also, it appears that Tivo does not like more than 1 additional partition - therefore the only solution I see is to use existing and a new partition, each being up to 2T. Using existing - means really resizing it.
There is, of course, an option to delete one existing media partition and then create 2 new ones - with combined size of a new drive, but that would lose all recodings on it and we don't want that, do we? :D

[johnfarmer55]

Hey Comer, How long did it take ddrescue to copy a virgin TP drive over to the 2Tb drive? Right now I'm at about 2 hrs and it still at ~315gb... is that normal? Yeah, I know... I'm impatient.

[EdH]

Hey Comer, How long did it take ddrescue to copy a virgin TP drive over to the 2Tb drive? Right now I'm at about 2 hrs and it still at ~315gb... is that normal? Yeah, I know... I'm impatient.

You must be nearly done. Hang in.

But something doesn't seem right. My TP drive was about 280gb and it was not quite virgin. So ~315gb seems too high.

Ed

[comer]

You must be nearly done. Hang in.

But something doesn't seem right. My TP drive was about 280gb and it was not quite virgin. So ~315gb seems too high.

Ed

Doesn't matter virgin or not. It's the physical size - that's what matters. 320G is Tivo factory standard for non-XL Premiere, right? So it should copy 320G :)

[johnfarmer55]

Knock, Knock.

Who's there?

Woo.

Woo who?

WooHoo! I got myself a 2TB TiVo Premiere! Comer you ROCK! Thanks also to everyone else who helped answer my silly questions! Rockin!

[wp746911]

welcome to the 2TB club! I'm downloading series from amazon (madmen HD) and recording shows like crazy, and I'm still below 10% full ;)

For me the tricky things in linux were

1)figuring out how to use the command prompt (only took a few minutes- use sudo for admin priviledges, took a few times to get the directory changed with 'cd' command)

2)installing java (just google it- but some instructions didn't work)

3)installing ddrescue (also google it- first set I found worked)

4)making sure your syntax is right (one misplaced period and it won't work)

5)the typo that says to use mfsadd.bat instead of mfsadd.sh (took me 30 minutes to remember the post)

Everything else was pretty easy and straighforward

[KenVa]

10% full would be great. I just passed 74% full on my 2TB disk. :eek: I think I need a bigger upgrade. :)

[magnum68]

The good news is that the newer WD drives that employ 4k sector technology have no impact on how they perform in TiVo. Many, many folks here have been using them since their introduction now with no problems. :up:

I would have to disagree. I installed a WD 1TB EARS 4k drive in my S3 and it became sluggish at times and when I would transfer shows to it it would reboot itself at least 7 times. And i tried it on two of my S3s with the same results.

[johnfarmer55]

10% full would be great. I just passed 74% full on my 2TB disk. :eek: I think I need a bigger upgrade. :)

Wow! Are you recording CSPAN?! I guess it's time for those 4TB upgrades!

[richsadams]

5)the typo that says to use mfsadd.bat instead of mfsadd.sh (took me 30 minutes to remember the post)COMER: Could you take a minute and edit your original post to reflect the correct command? It seems like this is throwing a lot of folks off. (If as stated, that is the correct command of course). TIA!

[richsadams]

I would have to disagree. I installed a WD 1TB EARS 4k drive in my S3 and it became sluggish at times and when I would transfer shows to it it would reboot itself at least 7 times. And i tried it on two of my S3s with the same results.It's much more likely that you have a faulty hard drive (or another issue). There are literally dozens of folks (probably more) using these drives w/o any issues now. It's well documented now that the 4k issue only affects Windows based computers running older OS.

[comer]

COMER: Could you take a minute and edit your original post to reflect the correct command? It seems like this is throwing a lot of folks off. (If as stated, that is the correct command of course). TIA!

I did, didn't I? :confused:

[richsadams]

I did, didn't I? :confused:Not sure...is "Run "mfsadd.bat <new image>" " correct? If so, I must have misread wp746911's post because he made it sound like mfsadd.sh was actually the correct command. :confused: My brain hurts.

[comer]

Not sure...is "Run "mfsadd.bat <new image>" " correct? If so, I must have misread wp746911's post because he made it sound like mfsadd.sh was actually the correct command. :confused: My brain hurts.

It depends what OS you are using of course :)


Under Linux:
...
7. Execute "./mfsadd.sh <new drive>"
...

Under Windows:
...
5. Run "mfsadd.bat <new image>"
...

[richsadams]

It depends what OS you are using of course :)Ah...got it. :up: That wasn't clear...at least to me. :o

[elite-fusion]

hey guys, new here, and to the whole TiVo team in general.

Know a bit about computers, so...i have 3 TiVo's all with lifetime subscriptions,
Series 3 with 1TB, Premier, and Premier XL with 1TB, i want to upgrade all 3 to 2 TB...

If i understand correctly, for the Series 3, i can use WinMFS, correct?
Also, for my Premier and Premier XL, i have to use the instructions on Page 11, correct?

I am on Windows XP / or / 7 either/or works for me. Not too familiar with Linux at all.

According to the instructions on Page 11, I need to find DD or DDRescue for Windows. ... . I am not able to find this ANYWHERE at all! Please help me out guys.

I'm a n00b, i tried to look through a few pages, but wayyyyy too many posts to go through. Please help me if someone can, because i have 3 2TB HD's, all of which are WD20EADS.

[elite-fusion]

Anyone ?? :(

[chrispitude]

I am working on putting together a live CD with a few needed tools pre-installed. The main challenge is to create a scripted/guided setup. I recon it's done, but I need to test it in different scenarios and on different hardware (to make sure bootabe CD is compatible with most systems or at least with most systems I can lay my hands on ;))

My wife just instructed me to upgrade our Premiere to have more storage, so this would be very timely!

[comer]

hey guys, new here, and to the whole TiVo team in general.


Welcome! :up:

Also, for my Premier and Premier XL, i have to use the instructions on Page 11, correct?


The link to instructions is in my signature. Please keep in mind that it was not tested on XL, although most likely it will work.


I am on Windows XP / or / 7 either/or works for me. Not too familiar with Linux at all.


I really suggest using Linux for upgrade. It's easy and less time and space consuming than under Windows.


According to the instructions on Page 11, I need to find DD or DDRescue for Windows. ... . I am not able to find this ANYWHERE at all! Please help me out guys.


dd for Windows (http://www.chrysocome.net/dd)

[vulture99]

According to the instructions on Page 11, I need to find DD or DDRescue for Windows. ... . I am not able to find this ANYWHERE at all! Please help me out guys.
I typed "dd for windows" in google and came up with a bunch of results. Here's the first one: http://www.chrysocome.net/dd

[elite-fusion]

Thanks guys, as for the DD for Windows, i searched also, first link was that site, didnt see a download section for it :-/ sorry about that, probably over looked it.

As for the link in the signature, unfortunately since im new, i dont have 10 posts, therefore i cant see the link :-/

[comer]

Thanks guys, as for the DD for Windows, i searched also, first link was that site, didnt see a download section for it :-/ sorry about that, probably over looked it.

As for the link in the signature, unfortunately since im new, i dont have 10 posts, therefore i cant see the link :-/

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8095021#post8095021

or post #307 in this thread.

[orangeboy]

...I really suggest using Linux for upgrade. It's easy and less time and space consuming than under Windows...

Hmm... I just installed ubuntu (desktop) as a virtual machine in VMware running on a Windows Server 2003 box. Probably not a good idea to try and do this in such a configuration?

[RichB]

Hmm... I just installed ubuntu (desktop) as a virtual machine in VMware running on a Windows Server 2003 box. Probably not a good idea to try and do this in such a configuration?

What a great question!

I doubt it but it would be nifty.

- Rich

[comer]

What a great question!

I doubt it but it would be nifty.

- Rich

I don't see why it wouldn't. You would need to add disk resources to your VM of course.
Easy - try it :D You can start with layout display - see if it works.

[RichB]

I don't see why it wouldn't. You would need to add disk resources to your VM of course.
Easy - try it :D You can start with layout display - see if it works.

OK. I am willing to give it a go.

- Rich

[ckazacos]

Congratulations!

Do you use the Unix method?

- Rich

Yes! I have Unix/Linux experience so it wasn't difficult. The most difficult part was trying to get an older computer to boot Live CD from USB. I resorted to using my newer computer and things went smoothly.

[orangeboy]

I don't see why it wouldn't. You would need to add disk resources to your VM of course.
Easy - try it :D You can start with layout display - see if it works.

Wasn't there some issues with Windows mucking around with the boot sector of the original TiVo drive when you connect and power up the Windows OS? Well, I guess since there's a Windows version, that must/may not be the case!

[jmiller50]

Another 2T upgrade success story here. I just upgraded last night. I use Linux 99% of the time, so for me, the hardest part was finding someone I could borrow 2 SATA cables from. For those trying to gauge how long it will take, the actually disk copy took about 3.5 hrs on my computer.

Kudos to corner for putting in the work to get this resolved.

[elite-fusion]

Hey again guys...sorry to bug you but not able to do this for some reason

This is what i have:

. Laptop with Win XP SP3
. I can get a bootable CD version of linux
. 3 TiVo's (S3 HD, Premiere, and Premiere XL)
. a ton of Sata cables (if needed)
. an eSata cable (if needed)

I took out the hard drive from my S3 for example (its currently 1TB and want to upgrade to 2TB)
So I now have a bare 1TB and a bare 2TB (what I would want to do I'm assuming is Copy and Expand)

I DO NOT HAVE ANY RECORDINGS ON THE 1TB DRIVE, SO I DO NOT CARE ABOUT LOOSING ANYTHING (THS SHOULD MAKE IT MUCH FASTER)

So instead of having 1TB in my S3, I want to have a 2TB.

How would i go about doing this in linux???? I HAVE NO CLUE HOW TO USE LINUX :(

I know this is PREMIERE forum, but same case goes for my Premiere and Premiere XL. I figured I'd try on the S3 first...or if you guys suggest I can pull the Premiere hard drive out and work with that.

Sorry for so many questions, i just like to include as much info as i can so someone can help me.

PS. LOVING THE TIVO's....THEY ARE AMAZING!

[b13]

I am confused, do I run ◦"ddrescue -r 3 <old tivo drive or image file name> <new drive>" or do I run ◦"dd if=<old tivo drive or image file name> of=<new drive>"

I ran the 1st command and it finised in 2-3 hours like you said. However then I ran second command and 6hours later the HDD's are still doing something.




**************************************
This is your current disk capacity.

6.Copy old tivo disk or image file onto new one using either:
◦"ddrescue -r 3 <old tivo drive or image file name> <new drive>"
I recommend this tool if available in your system, because it gives nice progress output, so you can be sure it didn't hang and how long to wait.

◦"dd if=<old tivo drive or image file name> of=<new drive>"
It is possible to see progress of this tool as well, but not interactively. For more info see "man dd" or look it up on internet.
Wait for 2-3 hours until complete. Make sure it completes without errors.
7.Execute "./mfsadd.sh <new drive>"

8.[optional, but very advisable] run "./testLayout.sh <new drive>".
Make note of the last few lines and verify that capacity increased.

[wp746911]

oopsie- gotta read the instructions very carefully when using command prompt:

Copy old tivo disk or image file onto new one using either:
"ddrescue -r 3 <old tivo drive or image file name> <new drive>"
I recommend this tool if available in your system, because it gives nice progress output, so you can be sure it didn't hang and how long to wait.

"dd if=<old tivo drive or image file name> of=<new drive>"
It is possible to see progress of this tool as well, but not interactively. For more info see "man dd" or look it up on internet.
Wait for 2-3 hours until complete. Make sure it completes without errors.

It says to either- you were done after the first ddrescue (took about 3 hours on my computer too)- dd if does the same thing but doesn't look as nice-and you should only run one or the other.

[Jonathan_S]

Wasn't there some issues with Windows mucking around with the boot sector of the original TiVo drive when you connect and power up the Windows OS? Well, I guess since there's a Windows version, that must/may not be the case!IIRC it was basically an older version(s?) of windows that did it. (I want to say Windows 2000, but that might be wrong).

Newer versions of windows play nice and don't automatically touch all drives. You'd have to go into the drive manager and specifically ask it to initialize the drive to break it like the old version of windows did automatically.


I know WinXP SP2 is safe (I've used WinMFS in XP to copy / expand TiVo drives without an problems) and Vista or Win7 should be good as well.

[richsadams]

IIRC it was basically an older version(s?) of windows that did it. (I want to say Windows 2000, but that might be wrong).

Newer versions of windows play nice and don't automatically touch all drives. You'd have to go into the drive manager and specifically ask it to initialize the drive to break it like the old version of windows did automatically.


I know WinXP is safe (I've used WinMFS in XP to copy / expand TiVo drives without an problems) and Vista or Win7 should be good as well.Exactly. Win XP (original release), NT 4, Windows 2000 sp4 or earlier, ME or earlier were the culprits. Windows ME? :eek: ((shudder)). ;)

[orangeboy]

IIRC it was basically an older version(s?) of windows that did it. (I want to say Windows 2000, but that might be wrong).

Newer versions of windows play nice and don't automatically touch all drives. You'd have to go into the drive manager and specifically ask it to initialize the drive to break it like the old version of windows did automatically.


I know WinXP SP2 is safe (I've used WinMFS in XP to copy / expand TiVo drives without an problems) and Vista or Win7 should be good as well.

Exactly. Win XP (original release), NT 4, Windows 2000 sp4 or earlier, ME or earlier were the culprits. Windows ME? :eek: ((shudder)). ;)

Great! That does ease my mind when the time comes to upgrade the Premiere. :up:

[b13]

Status update:Ran 1st Command then ran Second Command. I thought I would break it<---

Well....It didn't! Tivo booted everything seems ok (except) when I change to menus like from Video to Network etc. When it switches I see a gray sceeen then it takes me to menu.

I went from 320gig to 1-terabyte. Does it support 2 terabyte? I used Ubuntu x64-bit and booted off of live CD. I am in I.t. and I haven't used linux for a while (started to recently) so it wasn't that hard. The only thing was instructions at the end confused me.

[johnfarmer55]

I like seeing the list of upgraded Premieres grow!

--j55

[comer]

I went from 320gig to 1-terabyte.


Congrats! :up:


Does it support 2 terabyte?


Yes.


The only thing was instructions at the end confused me.

For the benefit of future users, could you be more specific, please? :)

[steve614]

Why do I have this feeling that Weaknees, DVRUpgrade, and DVRDude sales for the Premiere upgrade drives are about to plummet?

[comer]

Why do I have this feeling that Weaknees, DVRUpgrade, and DVRDude sales for the Premiere upgrade drives are about to plummet?

Should I be worried? :eek:

:D:D

[richsadams]

Newegg.com has the 2TB Western Digital GP WD20EARS for $119.99. Coupon code "HARDOCP98B" takes it down to $99.99 w/free shipping.

http://bit.ly/cbDU6G

[wp746911]

hmm i wondered if I spent too much- I got a WD AV-GP 2tb- i cost me mabye $30 more but I felt good that it was designated for pvr use- was that a good move or are these other drives just as good?

[RichB]

I have a Premiere XL in my Living room.
Can you move disks from one TiVo to the other. The case is a little ill-fitting on the new Premiere. So I was wondering if I can:

Upgrade the new TiVo XL to a 2TB drive and then move the 1TB drive to my other Premiere.

Are drives locked to the units?

- Rich

[steve614]

From what I have read, you can only swap drives between Tivos of the same model, e.g., TivoHD -> TivoHD, Premiere XL -> Premiere XL, and you have to do a Clear & Delete everything in order for it to work properly.
A drive from a TivoHD XL will not work in a Premiere XL.

[richsadams]

hmm i wondered if I spent too much- I got a WD AV-GP 2tb- i cost me mabye $30 more but I felt good that it was designated for pvr use- was that a good move or are these other drives just as good?Certainly no harm done...except a little bit to your wallet.

WD A/V dedicated hard drives have several features not found in their standard cousins, one being that the Auto Acoustic Management (AAM) is tuned to it's lowest level (128). That reduces the seek noise of the heads. Unfortunately TiVo by design isn't able to take advantage of the other A/V features of those drives. BTW, that doesn't seem to have made any difference in performance so it may be that SA and other DVR's don't have some of the "performance advantages" that TiVo has and relies on HDD firmware to compensate.

In any case, the non-A/V WD GP hard drives (the EARS series for example) have proven to work quite well based on numerous posts here and elsewhere. One just needs to adjust the AAM from the stock level to 128 to make them quieter...although they are very quiet out of the box.

There are mixed reports about the more recently manufactured WD GP drives requiring the Intellipark feature to be extended or disabled to address the soft reboot hang however. If you are so inclined it would be helpful if when you upgrade to skip that step and try a soft reboot after installing your new drive and report back your findings. If you can please include the drive's manufacture date (http://i51.tinypic.com/2e3dahg.jpg). A number of folks are reporting that drives manufactured sometime in August 2010 and forward haven't required tweaking Intellipark while others have had to do it so there's still no definitive answer. More data points will be very valuable.

Hope that helped. I guess the short answer is that you've saved yourself a little time. Time is money they say. ;)

[richsadams]

I have a Premiere XL in my Living room.
Can you move disks from one TiVo to the other. The case is a little ill-fitting on the new Premiere. So I was wondering if I can:

Upgrade the new TiVo XL to a 2TB drive and then move the 1TB drive to my other Premiere.

Are drives locked to the units?

- RichBasically what Steve614 said, but I'm a little confused. Do you have a TiVo Premiere XL and your new TiVo is also a Premiere XL model or is it a standard TiVo Premiere? Or do you have a different combination such as a Premiere XL and a TiVo HDXL?

In any case, as Steve said, swapping drives is always like-for-like. Although I'm not sure if anyone has posted about trying to swap drives in the same series, but different builds...such as swapping a drive from a TiVo Premiere XL into a standard TiVo Premiere (or vice versa). It might work, but until someone tries it we can't be sure. I can think why it would (the OS matches) as well as why it wouldn't (possible hardware differences the OS may have to deal with).

One of the keys that Steve mentioned is that a full Clear and Delete Everything is required. That wipes all of the box's "personal" information including recordings, Season Passes, channel info, guide data, cable card pairing and so on. You basically end up with a "new" TiVo. Swapping hard drives is usually a last resort kind of thing.

All of that said, if you currently have a Premiere XL and you want to swap drives with another Premiere XL, yes that will work, but again, you'd need to run C&DE. If that fits your plans you should be good to go.

Curious...what do you mean when you say the case is a little "ill fitting"? :confused:

Anyway, hope that helps!

[mkkelly75]

Hi All, Just wanted to report that I did the upgrade to a 1TB drive this morning. Had a little trouble installing Java to begin with but then I went to the Ubuntu software utility and installed the Java JRE runtime through that and it worked great. :D

My question now is, should I keep recording until I am past the 20 hours of original HD video capacity to ensure everything is cool?

[mkkelly75]

Of course reading back through the thread I realized I forgot about the Intellipark issue. :( Rebooting now to see if it hangs or not. Guess I am pulling the drive again if it does...

[richsadams]

Of course reading back through the thread I realized I forgot about the Intellipark issue. :( Rebooting now to see if it hangs or not. Guess I am pulling the drive again if it does...Congrats and can you let us know one way or the other about the soft reboot...and the manufacture date of your hard drive (http://i51.tinypic.com/2e3dahg.jpg)? TIA!

With respect to the recordings (20 hours plus) AFAIK a number of folks here have far surpassed that after an upgrade without any problems.

[RichB]

Basically what Steve614 said, but I'm a little confused. Do you have a TiVo Premiere XL and your new TiVo is also a Premiere XL model or is it a standard TiVo Premiere? Or do you have a different combination such as a Premiere XL and a TiVo HDXL?

Both are Premieres one is an XL the other standard.


In any case, as Steve said, swapping drives is always like-for-like. Although I'm not sure if anyone has posted about trying to swap drives in the same series, but different builds...such as swapping a drive from a TiVo Premiere XL into a standard TiVo Premiere (or vice versa). It might work, but until someone tries it we can't be sure. I can think why it would (the OS matches) as well as why it wouldn't (possible hardware differences the OS may have to deal with).

One of the keys that Steve mentioned is that a full Clear and Delete Everything is required. That wipes all of the box's "personal" information including recordings, Season Passes, channel info, guide data, cable card pairing and so on. You basically end up with a "new" TiVo. Swapping hard drives is usually a last resort kind of thing.


I guess I will stay put then.


Curious...what do you mean when you say the case is a little "ill fitting"? :confused:

The top panel sticks up a bit. I can probably fix it when I swap out the drive.

Anyway, hope that helps!

Yes. Thanks,

Rich

[richsadams]

Both are Premieres one is an XL the other standard.

I guess I will stay put then.

The top panel sticks up a bit. I can probably fix it when I swap out the drive.
Ah, got it then. Thanks!

[mkkelly75]

Congrats and can you let us know one way or the other about the soft reboot...and the manufacture date of your hard drive (http://i51.tinypic.com/2e3dahg.jpg)? TIA!

With respect to the recordings (20 hours plus) AFAIK a number of folks here have far surpassed that after an upgrade without any problems.

I did the soft reboot with no issues. Of course since I forgot about the Intellipark issue I never thought to look at the manufacture date. It is a WD10EARS though. I will yank it back out soon and check (unless it says it on the box somewhere?).

[richsadams]

I did the soft reboot with no issues. Of course since I forgot about the Intellipark issue I never thought to look at the manufacture date. It is a WD10EARS though. I will yank it back out soon and check (unless it says it on the box somewhere?).Understood. AFAIK the manufacture date isn't on the box anywhere, only on the drive itself. Was this a retail box drive (included mounting kit, etc.) or a bare OEM drive? I take it you bought it recently...can you let us know the retailer? TIA for posting the manufacture info at some point.

Thanks for your patience with all of the questions...the more data points we can get the better it will be to recommend drives and help those that follow.

Now enjoy!

[mkkelly75]

Understood. AFAIK the manufacture date isn't on the box anywhere, only on the drive itself. I take it you bought the drive recently...can you let us know the retailer?

TIA for posting the manufacture info at some point.

Now enjoy!

I bought it at Best Buy, it was a little bit more expensive than online, but I had a gift card and the whole instant gratification thing got the better of me :)

[richsadams]

I bought it at Best Buy, it was a little bit more expensive than online, but I had a gift card and the whole instant gratification thing got the better of me :)Thanks...that answers my other question about a retail box Vs OEM drive. Good to know. :up:

[mkkelly75]

Thanks...that answers my other question about a retail box Vs OEM drive. Good to know. :up:

My mistake it was a EADS drive and the manufacture date is 20 September 2009. If I had remembered the Intellipark issue before I would have disabled it to begin with, but I have had one soft reboot with no issues, so hopefully I am good to go.:up:

[richsadams]

My mistake it was a EADS drive and the manufacture date is 20 September 2009. If I had remembered the Intellipark issue before I would have disabled it to begin with, but I have had one soft reboot with no issues, so hopefully I am good to go.:up:Still good information...thanks!

If you conducted a menu reboot once it s/b fine going forward, but there's no harm in trying it again if you get bored. ;)

[comer]

WD A/V dedicated hard drives have several features not found in their standard cousins, one being that the Auto Acoustic Management (AAM) is tuned to it's lowest level (128). That reduces the seek noise of the heads. Unfortunately TiVo by design isn't able to take advantage of the other A/V features of those drives.


The most important feature is that AV drives designed/certified to work in always-on 24x7 mode. Other drives are not.
And Tivo is an always-on environment :)

[richsadams]

The most important feature is that AV drives designed/certified to work in always-on 24x7 mode. Other drives are not.
And Tivo is an always-on environment :)That concept has been discussed here and elsewhere and has some merit. However the difference in drives isn't so much about the time the drive is active but the data throughput/workload demand, error recovery and such.

Enterprise class hard drives are the workhorses when it comes to 24/7 operations. They have additional sensors (vibration, fly height adjustment, etc.). There are some firmware differences including recovery timing settings (TLER in WD drives for example). The combination of these differences results in higher reliability, which makes a difference in the specifications. For WD the Unrecoverable Bit Error (UBE) is the same for both consumer and enterprise models. So if it were all about 24/7 heavy duty operations, an enterprise class hard drive would be the ideal for TiVo, which of course would be stupendous overkill (not to mention replicating the sound of a thrashing machine :eek:).

Although it's true that TiVo is reading/writing data 24/7, in a TiVo environment as opposed to a true enterprise/server high performance environment, the workload TiVo (or any other DVR for that matter) handles is light to very light by comparison even when taking into consideration the possibility of processing/recording two HD signals, playback, broadband downloading, etc. all occurring at the same time. That said, a true enterprise drive would think it was on holiday if it were slipped into a TiVo. ;) Having owned and maintained servers I would have never considered using an A/V dedicated hard drive in one, they just aren't cut out for that sort of duty. So it's a bit apples and oranges when it comes down to what drives can and can't do and what makes one better than another.

TiVo OEM drives have never been enterprise class (5900 RPM with a miniscule 2MB cache). They are however A/V dedicated hard drives. For example the TiVo HD's OEM drive is the WD1600AVBS, and the TiVo HDXL sports a WD10EVVS hard drive.

Also as mentioned, Western Digital's A/V dedicated hard drives have a number of proprietary features including "Silkstream", "Intelliseek", "Intellipark" and "Preemptive Wear Leveling" (PWL) all of which for one reason or another TiVo cannot take advantage. These added "features" contribute to the cost of the drives but not to any actual performance enhancements in TiVo.

"Certified" is generally a marketing term with no actual measurable standard. None of the TiVo OEM hard drives are "certified" for anything by their manufacturer Western Digital.

Going with an A/V dedicated hard drive can certainly do no harm and as mentioned can save some time when it comes to AAM adjustments. With respect to one being "better" than another, the proof is in the performance and to some extent longevity. Based on years of posts here and elsewhere both types of drives perform identically in a TiVo application and mean time to failure (MTTF) rates are just about identical as well. YMMV of course. :)

[wp746911]

I bought a 2TB OEM (just came in a plastic static bag) harddrive WD20EVDS from frys in arlington, tx. I did not check the manufactor date, but will try to (it's already installed). I did not adjust intellipark and I have rebooted it successfully without any hangups.

Also, while I'm not sure if the premium I paid for the av drive is worth it (I'm just guessing there reallky isn't much difference), the original tivo internal drive is an av-gp wd 320gb drive...so I replaced it with a drive in the same family, makes me feel good- it seems there is a ~$30 premium I paid to feel good...

[wluk]

Ok, sorry for the dumb questions but I'm having a helluva time installing java. I'm using the Ubuntu CD live. I try installing it runnind this:

ubuntu@ubuntu:~/Downloads$ sudo ./jre-6u21-linux-i586-rpm.bin

and I get this every time:

inflating: jre-6u21-linux-i586.rpm
./jre-6u21-linux-i586-rpm.bin: 160: rpm: not found

What am I doing wrong?


I had the same problem. Try downloading the bin instead of the rpm.bin file from Java. It should take care of the problem.

[comer]

"Certified" is generally a marketing term with no actual measurable standard. None of the TiVo OEM hard drives are "certified" for anything by their manufacturer Western Digital.

Marketing - true. Does not mean anything - not true :) If words "designed for 24x7" do not mean anything, then why not stick them on all models and get ahead of the other guy who didn't? Out of two, average consumer would go for something that looks more reliable, right?
Even if Mean Time Before Failure (MTBF) is the same (sidenote: MTBF is higher for enterprise-level HDs, which is written ih huge bold letters right on the first page about the product - when they can they do ;)) it means that manufacturer will not deal with large volumes of returns of the drives used in 24x7 environment where manufacturer knew they would not last. It's money. So they do advertize drives for 24x7 which can perform, and do not advertize drives that can not perform. Even though they do not give technical details why they think so - it does not mean there are not any reasons for that.
In microchip world it may be equivalent to sorting out the same batch of chips, made from the same waffer, by the speed at which they can perform reliably. They are identical otherwise! But some make it to 1.3Ghz (just as an example) others only upto 1.0Ghz.

[slowbiscuit]

Find a study that shows the average MTBF is better on A/V drives than regular consumer drives, and I will agree with you (an actual use case study, not manufacturer claims). Otherwise, it doesn't mean anything in a Tivo which is the point Rich is making. I too do not believe that you will get longer service from an A/V drive, it's all a matter of luck with drives nowadays. Get one from a bad run or bad firmware and it won't matter if it's A/V certified or not, it's going to fail sooner than it should.

Or maybe it's just cosmic rays, who knows.

[richsadams]

Marketing - true. Does not mean anything - not true :) If words "designed for 24x7" do not mean anything, then why not stick them on all models and get ahead of the other guy who didn't? Out of two, average consumer would go for something that looks more reliable, right?
Even if Mean Time Before Failure (MTBF) is the same (sidenote: MTBF is higher for enterprise-level HDs, which is written ih huge bold letters right on the first page about the product - when they can they do ;)) it means that manufacturer will not deal with large volumes of returns of the drives used in 24x7 environment where manufacturer knew they would not last. It's money. So they do advertize drives for 24x7 which can perform, and do not advertize drives that can not perform. Even though they do not give technical details why they think so - it does not mean there are not any reasons for that.
In microchip world it may be equivalent to sorting out the same batch of chips, made from the same waffer, by the speed at which they can perform reliably. They are identical otherwise! But some make it to 1.3Ghz (just as an example) others only upto 1.0Ghz.24/7, yes...I was saying that "certified" is a marketing term which has no measurable standard. With respect as to why wouldn't manufacturers claim all hard drives are suitable for 24/7 use, one could cynically argue that it would remove their ability to generate a higher margin for a like product...similar to charging more for a blue car than a white one. But I'm not quite that cynical. ;). I do know that enterprise class drives are actually built differently. I also know that dedicated A/V drives are also built slightly differently...however as mentioned, TiVo cannot (or perhaps doesn't need to) take advantage of the additional features.

MTBF is in fact higher for enterprise class drives but we need to keep in mind the A/V dedicated drives we're talking about are not enterprise class.

Anyway, I think we agree that a good A/V dedicated drive is a good investment. From personal experience (I'm using both) and several years of posts on the TCF and other forums, there doesn't seem to be any empirical or really even compelling evidence that they perform any better or worse or last any longer than the recommended "standard" hard drive options.

That said, the more positive posts I read about 2TB upgrades here...the more difficult it is not to jump on the bandwagon! Thanks very much for your continued hard work on this...you have a lot of happy "customers" (of which I will likely be another pretty soon). :)

[comer]

Anyway, I think we agree that a good A/V dedicated drive is a good investment. From personal experience (I'm using both) and several years of posts on the TCF and other forums, there doesn't seem to be any empirical or really even compelling evidence that they perform any better or worse or last any longer than the recommended "standard" hard drive options.


Of course :)
I am a bit bitter because of multiple drive failures I have experienced for the past year. It included WD Caviar Greens. I mentioned it in other posts. However, I replaced it with WD AV-GP drive and it has been fine so far (few months).

That said, the more positive posts I read about 2TB upgrades here...the more difficult it is not to jump on the bandwagon! Thanks very much for your continued hard work on this...you have a lot of happy "customers" (of which I will likely be another pretty soon). :)

No problem :) As Socrates said in "Peaceful Warrior": "There's no greater purpose than service to others." (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0438315/quotes?qt0468462)

[aaronwt]

Marketing - true. Does not mean anything - not true :) If words "designed for 24x7" do not mean anything, then why not stick them on all models and get ahead of the other guy who didn't? Out of two, average consumer would go for something that looks more reliable, right?
Even if Mean Time Before Failure (MTBF) is the same (sidenote: MTBF is higher for enterprise-level HDs, which is written ih huge bold letters right on the first page about the product - when they can they do ;)) it means that manufacturer will not deal with large volumes of returns of the drives used in 24x7 environment where manufacturer knew they would not last. It's money. So they do advertize drives for 24x7 which can perform, and do not advertize drives that can not perform. Even though they do not give technical details why they think so - it does not mean there are not any reasons for that.
In microchip world it may be equivalent to sorting out the same batch of chips, made from the same waffer, by the speed at which they can perform reliably. They are identical otherwise! But some make it to 1.3Ghz (just as an example) others only upto 1.0Ghz.

I've been using non Enterprise Drives in TiVos(over two dozen) for almost nine years. I've yet to have an issue with any of them. Even the drives from my philips DirecTv TiVos from the early 2000's are still going strong. I put in 80GB ide drives and my girlfriends neice is using those boxes today with no issues.
And the next gen Philips DirecTV TiVos I put even larger drives in. I gave them to my a friend and he is still using the three of them. They have been running 24/7 for around six years.

[RichB]

The only TiVo drive failure I had was during a power outage that have about 3 power cycles in about 10 seconds. That killed it. I know it was not a AV drive.

I now have a UPS on my main TiVo.

- Rich

[donnoh]

My take on upgrading drives.
People that do it don't keep them long enough to know if or when they die. Maybe some do, but if you're an upgrade geek like me as soon as the next upgrade size comes along you go for it.
Personally the only drives I've seen fail in 24/7 operation were 6-7 years old and I'm talking about PC's that are in an industrial environment.
I think that the quality of drives available today will last as long as the technology does for 95% of users.

[simon7]

Great discussion on hard drives. Thanks guys, and keep the opinions coming. :)

[richsadams]

I've been using non Enterprise Drives in TiVos(over two dozen) for almost nine years. I've yet to have an issue with any of them. Even the drives from my philips DirecTv TiVos from the early 2000's are still going strong. I put in 80GB ide drives and my girlfriends neice is using those boxes today with no issues.
And the next gen Philips DirecTV TiVos I put even larger drives in. I gave them to my a friend and he is still using the three of them. They have been running 24/7 for around six years.You are one generous kind of guy! ;)

[tcfcameron]

Also as mentioned, Western Digital's A/V dedicated hard drives have a number of proprietary features including "Silkstream", "Intelliseek", "Intellipark" and "Preemptive Wear Leveling" (PWL) all of which for one reason or another TiVo cannot take advantage. These added "features" contribute to the cost of the drives but not to any actual performance enhancements in TiVo.

I've been wanting to say something regarding how some people keep stating that none of these AV feature sets can be utilized by the TiVo (or in this case stating that they can't/won't enhance performance).

I disagree, but only in a matter of degrees:

Some feature sets are embedded and operate entirely within the drive. "S.M.A.R.T." is a good basic example. But, if said feature set is also supported by the host, you can get more from the feature (read the SMART data that is stored on the drive, for example). While not the best example, it's one everybody knows of (pretty much). You can also take a SMART capable drive that has been running in a host that doesn't support SMART, move it to one that does, and the SMART data will all be there to read. Now, on the flip side of the coin, there are feature sets that are useless without host support (such as SilkStream, which some day may be advanced enough that the drive itself can detect the type of data and automatically utilize the appropriate feature set, but until/unless that happens, useless).

Here's some further thoughts, as well as a few quotes from Western Digital's website and spec sheets:

The current WD20EADS (GP, non-AV) drive specifications include:
"Intelliseek - Calculates optimum seek speeds to lower power consumption, noise, and vibration." - from WD web site.

Intelliseek seems to be doing it's job very well with the WD20EADS drives in my four TiVo HDs. (I believe it is also a firmware controlled feature that does not require the host to support it to utilize it.) I have found that my TiVos get laggy when doing things such as reorganizing SPs and other drive-intensive operations if I enable AAM at all, while not making any discernible difference in audible seeking noise. I also tested this by using Hitachi Feature Tool, which allows real-time adjustment of AAM with a slider and allows you to listen as the software makes the drive perform full/random seek operations. My WD20EADS drives (bare OEM from Fry's) came with AAM disabled. I believe they were manufactured in Q3, 2010.

One feature that is not listed for GP-only (but is listed for WD20EVDS AV-GP):
"IntelliPark - Delivers lower power consumption by automatically unloading the heads during idle to reduce aerodynamic drag." - this feature is only listed on the spec sheets for the AV-GP, yet if it isn't in the GP-only feature set, why would WDIDLE3 be needed for non-AV models? So, it must be there and function at some capacity, but the TiVos apparently lack a proper command to un-park the heads, thus WD must have began including that into the firmware, making it another fully firmware controlled feature, like IntelliSeek, in the newer (more recently manufactured) drives. It actually seems like there is nearly no need for this feature in an AV-GP drive, yet it has potential for use in GP-only drives, where it isn't listed as a feature. <scratching head on this one>

This is a feature listed for WD20EADS (GP, non-AV):
"NoTouch ramp load technology - The recording head never touches the disk media ensuring better drive protection in transit as well as significantly less wear to the recording head and media." -If a TiVo being rebooted from the menu, (hypothetically), sends a "Shut-Down" or "Standby" command to the drive, but something in the newer drives' firmware changed and the "Resume" command isn't properly recognized by the drive firmware, this could explain things with the "soft-reboot issue". Perhaps WDIDLE3 is really adjusting this, when used on GP-only drives. Note that this is not the same as IntelliPark, which could be something that the FAQ could include in the future to avoid confusion (hint-hint, wink).

Preemptive Wear Leveling (PWL) AV-GP models only:
"The drive arm frequently sweeps across the disk to reduce uneven wear on the drive surface common to audio video streaming applications." This is a drive firmware controlled feature. It does not matter what the drive is connected to. (Yet, I fail to understand what this could achieve, since WD brags about how "The recording head never touches the disk media..." in both the AV-GP and the GP-only models. How does a head, riding on air, that never touches the platter, cause uneven platter wear?)

"StableTrac - The motor shaft is secured at both ends to reduce system-induced vibration and stabilize platters for accurate tracking, during read and write operations. (2 TB models only)" - This isn't listed as a feature on the AV-GP 2TB model, but it is on the GP-only 2TB.

It seems to me that the GP-only drives may actually have a few features that don't rely on the host they are installed in to be functional, which actually make them better than the AV-GP drives (for TiVo use). One thing that is true, and will certainly be beaten like a dead horse, is that non-AV drives don't have a 24x7 rating. I'm not concerned about it. I care more about "features" and which ones actually are of benefit to me when the host is my TiVo. I've been running hard drives in computers 24x7 for over 10 years, and it's always been the ones that weren't being run 24x7 that died early deaths.

Yes, I just now realized that this post is a bit off-official-topic. Maybe I'll move it, or just delete it, after a few days... Nothing said here is really different for the Premiere, though, AFAIK...

[richsadams]

I've been wanting to say something regarding how some people keep stating that none of these AV feature sets can be utilized by the TiVo (or in this case stating that they can't/won't enhance performance). <snip> Thanks for that and although we've certainly strayed a bit OT, I think these discussions are, if not a little self indulgent, beneficial for a number of reasons.

I still stand by my and other's supposition that most of the various features in A/V drives either do not enhance TiVo's performance or are not used at all, but your points are well taken.

Over the years a general rule of thumb has been that it is better to leave a hard drive running 24/7, at least with respect to longevity. Many experts have said that the repeated power surges required to spin up a drive, un-park heads and so on will contribute to a shorter lifespan. So that may explain a little about why A/V drives are touted to be "better" (in a sense) than others.

In any case, thanks for taking the time to share. I think we agree on things for the most part and we can certainly agree to disagree on some of the finer points.

Bottom line is that we all want our TiVo's to perform as best as they can for as long as possible and it's conversations like this that can make a difference for those that follow. :up:

[RichB]

It has been a good discussion; Very informative.

However, since I already ordered the 2T EARS, the drive is cast :p

- Rich

[gamo62]

Is the hard drive in the Premiere an SATA 3 or SATA 6?

[kturcotte]

Is the hard drive in the Premiere an SATA 3 or SATA 6?

I would imagine it's SATA 3. I can't see any benefits to having an SATA 6 controller and SATA 6 drive.
However, SATA 6 drives are backwards compatible, so they'll work with the Tivo.

[cr33p]

Newegg has both the WD20EADS and EARS on sale with free 120gb WD Elements external for free shipped.
The EARS is 109 shipped :)

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136514

[richsadams]

Is the hard drive in the Premiere an SATA 3 or SATA 6?The hard drive inside the TiVo Premiere is a 320GB SATA- 2, WD3200AVVS (http://bit.ly/Cdfeb).

[gamo62]

I would imagine it's SATA 3. I can't see any benefits to having an SATA 6 controller and SATA 6 drive.
However, SATA 6 drives are backwards compatible, so they'll work with the Tivo.

I miagine that it would be overkill.

[richsadams]

And the price continues to drop. 2TB WD GP Hard Drive - WD20EARS for $94.99 w/free shipping...

http://dell.to/bmW3pA

[orangeboy]

Not to veer too far off topic, but are the drives being discussed (EADS/EARS) good for NAS applications? I keep my machines running 24/7, but not nearly with the read/write workload like a TiVo has. What would be good in a NAS (thinking of the ReadyNAS discussed in other threads) or other type of RAID setup?

[richsadams]

Not to veer too far off topic, but are the drives being discussed (EADS/EARS) good for NAS applications? I keep my machines running 24/7, but not nearly with the read/write workload like a TiVo has. What would be good in a NAS (thinking of the ReadyNAS discussed in other threads) or other type of RAID setup?It really depends on what you want your NAS to do. They would be fine as long as you didn't need high read/write/access speeds. WD GP drives are not up to the performance of full/standard 7200 RPM drives. The GP drives do use less energy, run quiet and cool though. If you're planning on streaming video you should probably go with the WD Black series or a similar drive from another manufacturer.

We have a D-Link 323 NAS w/2 1TB Hitachi Deskstar 7K2000.c drives inside running RAID 1 (mirrored). It works fine for our purposes, saving and streaming our iTunes and iPhoto libraries as well as copies of our DVD movie library that I rip to it.

That said, you're right, recommendations for NAS hardware, RAID setups, etc. are probably pretty far OT and best discussed on forums like the Broadband DSL (http://www.dslreports.com/forums/all?cat=6) or SmallNetBuilder (http://forums.smallnetbuilder.com/forumdisplay.php?f=10). Plus I'm sure you'll get better information from the "experts" there rather than folks that only know enough to be dangerous like me. ;)

[RichB]

I have 6 2TEADS green drives in my ReadyNas.
I can write to the NAS at around 90MB/sec.

- Rich

[Bai Shen]

Not to veer too far off topic, but are the drives being discussed (EADS/EARS) good for NAS applications? I keep my machines running 24/7, but not nearly with the read/write workload like a TiVo has. What would be good in a NAS (thinking of the ReadyNAS discussed in other threads) or other type of RAID setup?

I've got two EARS drives in my Drobo. No problems so far.

[krisca]

Weaknees is a rip off. I had to mail my unit to them three times and they still did not did not fix the problem.The guys there are really rude. They would not give me my money back. I would not recommend them.

[midlomuncher]

Hey folks, another success story. 290 HD hours in my TP as of this morning. Loading it up now by transfering content from my 2TB Tivo S3 rig. I wanted to get away from having an external HD because my kids are a little rowdy and I worry about the extra target during the nerf wars.

Anyhow, as a linux newbie I followed comer's directions. The first time, I ran into an insurmountable error trying to run the tool. So, I decided to start over, do everything right and document my procedure. Hopefully, my procedure can help supplement comer’s instructions and get some of you off the fence!

Standard warnings apply: Proceed at your own risk.

1) I went here and and downloaded the 32-bit desktop edition .iso and then burned a boot DVD. http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/download

2) I disconnected all SATA disks in my Hackintosh and connected the original Tivo drive and the new 2TB WD20EARS drive (powered off & disconnected for this of course!)

3) After connecting both disks, I booted from the Ubuntu 10.04 Boot DVD. I found the easiest way to get a Java Runtime Edition (JRE) and ddrescue installed was to use the Synaptic Package Manager.

In the MENU BAR select:
SYSTEM > ADMINISTRATION > SYNAPTIC PACKAGE MANAGER, then in the left pane select ALL and then in the right pane check ddrescue and default-jre. The other required package element check boxes will self-populate as needed. Then don’t forget to click APPLY.

I performed one other action in the SPM:
SYSTEM > ADMINISTRATION > SYNAPTIC PACKAGE MANAGER > SETTINGS > REPOSITORIES > UBUNTU SOFTWARE, I checked all the boxes except source code and then don’t forget to click RELOAD.

You are done and can close the SPM.

4) Then in my Dowloads folder I created 2 folders for comer’s tool. I named the first javabin and the second javasrc. I downloaded and extracted the binaries (jar and scripts) to the javabin folder and the Sources to the javasrc folder.

5) Finally, I made my way into the Terminal and got to work! I tried all of the commands as written by comer with the appropriate drive names. Some commands worked the first time and some commands gave an error, so I re-entered the command with “sudo” in front and all the commands that didn’t execute then executed properly.

In Terminal:

fdisk –l (my disks listed: /dev/sda is the original, /dev/sdb is the 2TB)

WARNING: These drive names will be dependent on your system. Make sure you verify your drive names and use them correctly!!!*****

sudo hdparm –i <old drive> (info on original Tivo disk)

sudo hdparm –i <new drive> (info on new TB disk)

WARNING x2: These drive names will be dependent on your system. Make sure you verify your drive names and use them correctly!!!

sudo chmod o+r <old drive>

sudo chmod o+rw <new drive>

navigate to directory where you extracted the binaries (jar and scripts)

./testLayout.sh <old drive> (note used free & total numbers for comparison)

I then navigated back to the top directory (noted but not sure if this mattered)

ddrescue –r 3 <old drive> <new drive> (it did run about 3 hours)

when done, I navigated back to directory where I extracted the binaries (jar and scripts)

sudo ./mfsadd.sh <new drive>

./testLayout.sh <new drive> (check numbers to see if they size increased)

The size increased, so I shut down the computer disconnected the new drive and put it back in the Tivo. I fired up the Tivo and ran the clear and delete. Success!

[Phantom Gremlin]

Preemptive Wear Leveling (PWL) AV-GP models only:
"The drive arm frequently sweeps across the disk to reduce uneven wear on the drive surface common to audio video streaming applications." This is a drive firmware controlled feature. It does not matter what the drive is connected to. (Yet, I fail to understand what this could achieve, since WD brags about how "The recording head never touches the disk media..." in both the AV-GP and the GP-only models. How does a head, riding on air, that never touches the platter, cause uneven platter wear?)

Sort of OT, but this thread is all about hard drives, so I'll take a guess at this. I haven't kept up with drive advances since the '90s, so my information may be way out of date.

Yes it's true that, ideally, the drive heads don't touch the surface. But, in the old days, that wasn't the case. Which lead to a big problem of stiction in hard disk drives. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stiction#Hard_disk_drives)

I expect that, for whatever reason, there is still some amount of lubricant being used. And having the drive arm periodically "sweep" across the platters would keep the lubricant evenly distributed. In the dark ages there were software programs that did exactly this. I think WD is saying they have moved this function into drive firmware.

[gespears]

DVR-Dude has competition:

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-TiVo-Premiere-TCD746320-1000GB-1TB-Hard-Drive-/110585960514?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19bf6fd842

I find some of his claims a little misleading.

Edit:

Wow, now that I look there are tons of others selling these drives. It will be interesting to see if this changes now.

[orangeboy]

DVR-Dude has competition:

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-TiVo-Premiere-TCD746320-1000GB-1TB-Hard-Drive-/110585960514?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19bf6fd842

I find some of his claims a little misleading.

Edit:

Wow, now that I look there are tons of others selling these drives. It will be interesting to see if this changes now.

Such as: "Condition: New: A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item in its original packaging..."?

Somehow the TiVo software made it onto the drive in an unopened box? I would think the box would have to be opened and the drive used at least once to put the TiVo image on, and used one more time in an actual TiVo to test that it works...

[aaronwt]

DVR-Dude has competition:

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-TiVo-Premiere-TCD746320-1000GB-1TB-Hard-Drive-/110585960514?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19bf6fd842

I find some of his claims a little misleading.

Edit:

Wow, now that I look there are tons of others selling these drives. It will be interesting to see if this changes now.

That person has been selling the drives for a while also. I chose DVR Dude because they warrantied their labor for 1 year plus it seemed like DVR daddy was copying DVR DUDE anyway. I have been very pleased with my two DVR DUDE drives.

[richsadams]

Such as: "Condition: New: A brand-new, unused, unopened, undamaged item in its original packaging..."?The old Vulcan/TiVo mind meld. ;)

[RichB]

I am getting nowhere.

I first tried Ubunto and got the JRE and packages installed.
Then I tried "fdisk -l" and nothing is displayed.
So I gave up.

Then I decided to try windows:

1.Get Windows version of "dd" or "ddrescue"

Done.

2.Create an image of your old Tivo drive: copy disk using the tools above into a file <new image>

I do not believe I want windows to much with the TiVo drives.
How do I copy the file with DD from windows devices that are only known as Disk 1 and Disk 2?

- Rich

[comer]

I am getting nowhere.

I first tried Ubunto and got the JRE and packages installed.
Then I tried "fdisk -l" and nothing is displayed.
So I gave up.

Then I decided to try windows:

1.Get Windows version of "dd" or "ddrescue"

Done.

2.Create an image of your old Tivo drive: copy disk using the tools above into a file <new image>

I do not believe I want windows to much with the TiVo drives.
How do I copy the file with DD from windows devices that are only known as Disk 1 and Disk 2?

- Rich

Windows: "dd --list" and choose from the list the devices you would use.
Ubuntu: "sudo fdisk -l".

[RichB]

Windows: "dd --list" and choose from the list the devices you would use.
Ubuntu: "sudo fdisk -l".

OK Thanks.

I went back to ubuntu and found that the drives were not found by fdisk in IDE mode. Once I changed to AHCI, fdisk found them.

After installing the ddrescue, I had to type the command to install it and then that worked. I am about 1/3 of the way through now.

- Rich

[rsaly77]

I thought I would help those having trouble installing JAVA in Ubuntu.
The system will do most of the work...

Start by going to System-Administration-Software Sources.
Click on the other software tab.
Click add and enter the following address without the quotes 'deb http://archive.canonical.com/ lucid partner'
Click on the Ubuntu Software tab and then check Community-maintained Open Source Software.
Now click on close and the system will reload software sources.

For some reason on my PC I have to reload the Software Sources twice, I do this by opening Software Sources and click on community-maintained software to remove check mark and then click on community-maintained software again to select. Now close software sources and the system will reload sources again.

Go to System-Administration-Synaptic Package Manager.
Search for sun java.
Right click on sun-java6-bin and mark for installation.
Now click on apply and agree to install all needed files.
The system will now install Sun Java....

[cr33p]

Hey folks, another success story. 290 HD hours in my TP as of this morning. Loading it up now by transfering content from my 2TB Tivo S3 rig. I wanted to get away from having an external HD because my kids are a little rowdy and I worry about the extra target during the nerf wars.

Anyhow, as a linux newbie I followed comer's directions. The first time, I ran into an insurmountable error trying to run the tool. So, I decided to start over, do everything right and document my procedure. Hopefully, my procedure can help supplement comer’s instructions and get some of you off the fence!

Standard warnings apply: Proceed at your own risk.

1) I went here and and downloaded the 32-bit desktop edition .iso and then burned a boot DVD. http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/download

2) I disconnected all SATA disks in my Hackintosh and connected the original Tivo drive and the new 2TB WD20EARS drive (powered off & disconnected for this of course!)

3) After connecting both disks, I booted from the Ubuntu 10.04 Boot DVD. I found the easiest way to get a Java Runtime Edition (JRE) and ddrescue installed was to use the Synaptic Package Manager.

In the MENU BAR select:
SYSTEM > ADMINISTRATION > SYNAPTIC PACKAGE MANAGER, then in the left pane select ALL and then in the right pane check ddrescue and default-jre. The other required package element check boxes will self-populate as needed. Then don’t forget to click APPLY.

I performed one other action in the SPM:
SYSTEM > ADMINISTRATION > SYNAPTIC PACKAGE MANAGER > SETTINGS > REPOSITORIES > UBUNTU SOFTWARE, I checked all the boxes except source code and then don’t forget to click RELOAD.

You are done and can close the SPM.

4) Then in my Dowloads folder I created 2 folders for comer’s tool. I named the first javabin and the second javasrc. I downloaded and extracted the binaries (jar and scripts) to the javabin folder and the Sources to the javasrc folder.

5) Finally, I made my way into the Terminal and got to work! I tried all of the commands as written by comer with the appropriate drive names. Some commands worked the first time and some commands gave an error, so I re-entered the command with “sudo” in front and all the commands that didn’t execute then executed properly.

In Terminal:

fdisk –l (my disks listed: /dev/sda is the original, /dev/sdb is the 2TB)

WARNING: These drive names will be dependent on your system. Make sure you verify your drive names and use them correctly!!!*****

sudo hdparm –i <old drive> (info on original Tivo disk)

sudo hdparm –i <new drive> (info on new TB disk)

WARNING x2: These drive names will be dependent on your system. Make sure you verify your drive names and use them correctly!!!

sudo chmod o+r <old drive>

sudo chmod o+rw <new drive>

navigate to directory where you extracted the binaries (jar and scripts)

./testLayout.sh <old drive> (note used free & total numbers for comparison)

I then navigated back to the top directory (noted but not sure if this mattered)

ddrescue –r 3 <old drive> <new drive> (it did run about 3 hours)

when done, I navigated back to directory where I extracted the binaries (jar and scripts)

sudo ./mfsadd.sh <new drive>

./testLayout.sh <new drive> (check numbers to see if they size increased)

The size increased, so I shut down the computer disconnected the new drive and put it back in the Tivo. I fired up the Tivo and ran the clear and delete. Success!


Do we have to run a C&D Everything? I was under the assumption that we where copying the existing drive and expanding it to a new drive? Wont that cause everyone to lose their Cable Card info? If this is the case wouldnt it make more sense to C&D before copying? It would make the image smaller?

[midlomuncher]

Do we have to run a C&D Everything? I was under the assumption that we where copying the existing drive and expanding it to a new drive? Wont that cause everyone to lose their Cable Card info? If this is the case wouldnt it make more sense to C&D before copying? It would make the image smaller?

My TP is new so I decided to run C&D Everything just for fun and to see if there were any problems doing so. I have FIOS , so no CableCard issues. My image was small to begin with.

[comer]

Do we have to run a C&D Everything? I was under the assumption that we where copying the existing drive and expanding it to a new drive? Wont that cause everyone to lose their Cable Card info? If this is the case wouldnt it make more sense to C&D before copying? It would make the image smaller?

No, you don't have to C&D :)
Unless you clone someoneelse's drive that does not match your Tivo. In this case, expand or not, you will get Error 51, which is cured by C&DE.

[cr33p]

No, you don't have to C&D :)
Unless you clone someoneelse's drive that does not match your Tivo. In this case, expand or not, you will get Error 51, which is cured by C&DE.

Roger that, I typically save images for troubleshooting, upgrades, and tivo sales, so It will be nice to have a saved back up. Does anyone out there have a "virgin" image sitting on FTP for a Premiere? Would be very helpful to have in the TiVo aresenal

[gamo62]

Roger that, I typically save images for troubleshooting, upgrades, and tivo sales, so It will be nice to have a saved back up. Does anyone out there have a "virgin" image sitting on FTP for a Premiere? Would be very helpful to have in the TiVo aresenal

I too would love to have a virgin image of a Premiere.

[cr33p]

I too would love to have a virgin image of a Premiere.

I just picked up two units this week that are "open box" not sure if they have been booted or not, I will try imaging them this week and see what I come up with.

[rdangel]

If someone wants to give me instructions on building a virgin image within ubuntu, I can do this.
I have a premier I am about to open the box to that I am going to clone before I boot it. I reckon making a backup image is a good thing.

[comer]

If someone wants to give me instructions on building a virgin image within ubuntu, I can do this.
I have a premier I am about to open the box to that I am going to clone before I boot it. I reckon making a backup image is a good thing.

Step #6 of Linux instructions of the post in my signature. Intead of "<new drive>" use file name (e.g. "/mnt/sdd1/my_virgin_tivo.img").

[rdangel]

DOH! Thanks Comer.
I will work on this image on Friday let everyone know when it is ready.

[gamo62]

DOH! Thanks Comer.
I will work on this image on Friday let everyone know when it is ready.

Thanks. That will be great.

[simon7]

I've been waiting to buy a 2TB WD Green drive, but recently the Newegg reviews have gone from mixed to outright abysmal. I generally trust WD, but there must have been a bad batch or something.

As a possible alternative, does anyone have any experience or advice on these Samsung F4 drives (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152245) in a Premiere? They use only 3 platters for 2TB so there should theoretically be some reliability benefit to that. Are 4096 byte physical sectors a problem for Tivo? Anyone know if I can adjust acoustics on a Samsung. Thanks!

[wp746911]

simon7 I wouldn't put much faith in online reviews of hard drives. ALL hard drives have a failure rate- and whenever one fails they are usually catastrophic and the owners are pissed and want to let the whole world know how crappy X manufactorer is. WD makes fine hard drives. I personally got a WD b/c it seems that they are popular on this forum- I actually got one in the same family (WD av/gp) as the one that is in the tivo premiere stock.

[comer]

Are 4096 byte physical sectors a problem for Tivo? Anyone know if I can adjust acoustics on a Samsung. Thanks!

Interesting point... Tivo relies on 512 byte/sector. However, I think that 4K/sector means that hardware will always read 4K, but will give out as much as requested.
There may be some performance degradation and redundant reads. As I imagine, for example Tivo requests to read 1 sector of 512 bytes. Drive's firmware reads 4K instead and discards 3.5K. Then Tivo requests to read the next sector. Drive reads 4K again, and so on. It could be mitigated through the cache though... :confused:

[Bai Shen]

AFAIK, 4k drives will work in 512 systems. However, you have to make sure the partitions are correctly aligned. WD has an alignment tool you can use if your OS doesn't support it natively.

Not sure how that works for tivo. I'd assume that once you're done setting up the drive that you'd run the alignment tool. But I have no way to know for sure.

I do believe that some people in this thread have gotten 4k drives working in their tivos.

[richsadams]

I've been waiting to buy a 2TB WD Green drive, but recently the Newegg reviews have gone from mixed to outright abysmal. I generally trust WD, but there must have been a bad batch or something.

As a possible alternative, does anyone have any experience or advice on these Samsung F4 drives (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152245) in a Premiere? They use only 3 platters for 2TB so there should theoretically be some reliability benefit to that. Are 4096 byte physical sectors a problem for Tivo? Anyone know if I can adjust acoustics on a Samsung. Thanks!Although WD's 2TB hard drives have less than a year of history it would be apparent by now if they had a major problem. Historically there have been hard drives that were obviously problematic and when that happens there are no doubts. The Seagate 1.5TB drive comes to mind. There were literally thousands of reports of problems all over the Internet from the day that they were released. Firmware updates and replacements calmed things down after a few months but a lot of folks still steer clear of them.

So I can understand the concern but looking back the reports of DOA or failed drives is about the same per capita as those for the 1TB models which are widely used by TCF members. The ratings on newegg are four out of five and the same goes for Amazon. As wp746911 mentioned, one thing to keep in mind is that the general public doesn't take the time to rate products and those that do have often had problems so negative reports can really skew things.

Samsung drives on the other hand have never been recommended for TiVo due to their spotty record of performance. There a a few folks using their 1TB Spinpoint drives but there are many more reports of problems either after they were in use for a while or in a number of cases that they wouldn't even boot up. That happened to yours truly a while back. The drive is working fine as a backup but I never could get it to work in a TiVo HD.

FWIW the 1TB WD10EARS is a two-platter drive and the 2TB WD20EARS is a three-platter drive.

Your call of course, but based on the positive experiences of WD's 1TB GP drives over the period of a couple of years, the positive feedback about the 2TB models on this thread (and other forums) as well as current ratings I wouldn't hesitate to use them.

BTW the 4K sector build in WD's GP 1TB drives haven't presented any problems for TiVo Series3's, HD's or HDXL's. AFAIK no one has reported any issues with the 2TB models either.

Happy upgrading!

[cr33p]

DOH! Thanks Comer.
I will work on this image on Friday let everyone know when it is ready.

Awesome, keep us posted :) My 2tb just arrived today :) Time to have some fun.

[comer]

BTW the 4K sector build in WD's GP 1TB drives haven't presented any problems for TiVo Series3's, HD's or HDXL's. AFAIK no one has reported any issues with the 2TB models either.

Which WD models have 4K sectors?

[richsadams]

Which WD models have 4K sectors?IIRC all of WD's GP drives since December. Per this article...

Along these lines, Linux and Mac OS X drive imaging products are similarly unaffected. In their testing, imaging tools such as SuperDuper didn’t run in to any alignment issues, so Linux and Mac OS X users are not affected in any way by 4K sectors.

It’s only Windows and Windows imaging products that are affected.

Since TiVo is a Unix/Linux/Apple hybird of sorts there haven't been any reported problems; only affecting older Windows machines AFAIK.

Good info here:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/wd-4k-sector,2554.html

[tcfcameron]

Which WD models have 4K sectors?

The WDXXEADS has 512, the WDXXEARS is 4K, I believe the "R" is the common denominator for 4K with WD drives. It's my understanding that they intend to phase out the non-4K drives over time, especially in the 2TB line. It is also my understanding that any drive larger than 2TB will only be available in the 4K sector size.

[richsadams]

The WDXXEADS has 512, the WDXXEARS is 4K, I believe the "R" is the common denominator for 4K with WD drives. It's my understanding that they intend to phase out the non-4K drives over time, especially in the 2TB line. It is also my understanding that any drive larger than 2TB will only be available in the 4K sector size.According to various articles that seems to be the case. IIRC the EARS series is a direct replacement for the EADS.

Per the Tom's Hardware article (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/wd-4k-sector,2554.html):

There is a simple way to identify the Advanced Format drive. You can either tell it by the product label (http://i53.tinypic.com/33mq45x.jpg) that comes with a little note (see next page) or by the cache capacity. No other current WD mainstream drive besides the Caviar Black or RE4 come with 64MB of cache yet. At least for the Caviar Green models, you can be sure you're looking at an AFD model if the buffer size is 64MB.

[comer]

The WDXXEADS has 512, the WDXXEARS is 4K, I believe the "R" is the common denominator for 4K with WD drives. It's my understanding that they intend to phase out the non-4K drives over time, especially in the 2TB line. It is also my understanding that any drive larger than 2TB will only be available in the 4K sector size.

Tom's is Tom's, but WD specs says 512b for EARS.
http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=763
Formatted Capacity 1,000,204 MB
User Sectors Per Drive 1,953,525,169

[RichB]

According to various articles that seems to be the case. IIRC the EARS series is a direct replacement for the EADS.

Per the Tom's Hardware article (http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/wd-4k-sector,2554.html):

Interesting article.
It looks like there could be a big performance hit if TiVo writes 256 bytes at a time and the partitions are not aligned.

Could TiVo partitions be aligned with the WD tools (I am not sure if TiVo even used partitions)?

- Rich

[RichB]

Tom's is Tom's, but WD specs says 512b for EARS.
http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=763

I see no mention of sector size.
I tried dividing those numbers and got 512 byte sectors.

I am not sure what those specs really mean.

- Rich

[comer]

I tried diving those numbers and got 512 byte sectors.


That's it.

1,000,204M/1,953,525,169 = 512. <- period

[cr33p]

Hey folks, another success story. 290 HD hours in my TP as of this morning. Loading it up now by transfering content from my 2TB Tivo S3 rig. I wanted to get away from having an external HD because my kids are a little rowdy and I worry about the extra target during the nerf wars.

Anyhow, as a linux newbie I followed comer's directions. The first time, I ran into an insurmountable error trying to run the tool. So, I decided to start over, do everything right and document my procedure. Hopefully, my procedure can help supplement comer’s instructions and get some of you off the fence!

Standard warnings apply: Proceed at your own risk.

1) I went here and and downloaded the 32-bit desktop edition .iso and then burned a boot DVD. http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/download

2) I disconnected all SATA disks in my Hackintosh and connected the original Tivo drive and the new 2TB WD20EARS drive (powered off & disconnected for this of course!)

3) After connecting both disks, I booted from the Ubuntu 10.04 Boot DVD. I found the easiest way to get a Java Runtime Edition (JRE) and ddrescue installed was to use the Synaptic Package Manager.

In the MENU BAR select:
SYSTEM > ADMINISTRATION > SYNAPTIC PACKAGE MANAGER, then in the left pane select ALL and then in the right pane check ddrescue and default-jre. The other required package element check boxes will self-populate as needed. Then don’t forget to click APPLY.

I performed one other action in the SPM:
SYSTEM > ADMINISTRATION > SYNAPTIC PACKAGE MANAGER > SETTINGS > REPOSITORIES > UBUNTU SOFTWARE, I checked all the boxes except source code and then don’t forget to click RELOAD.

You are done and can close the SPM.

4) Then in my Dowloads folder I created 2 folders for comer’s tool. I named the first javabin and the second javasrc. I downloaded and extracted the binaries (jar and scripts) to the javabin folder and the Sources to the javasrc folder.

5) Finally, I made my way into the Terminal and got to work! I tried all of the commands as written by comer with the appropriate drive names. Some commands worked the first time and some commands gave an error, so I re-entered the command with “sudo” in front and all the commands that didn’t execute then executed properly.

In Terminal:

fdisk –l (my disks listed: /dev/sda is the original, /dev/sdb is the 2TB)

WARNING: These drive names will be dependent on your system. Make sure you verify your drive names and use them correctly!!!*****

sudo hdparm –i <old drive> (info on original Tivo disk)

sudo hdparm –i <new drive> (info on new TB disk)

WARNING x2: These drive names will be dependent on your system. Make sure you verify your drive names and use them correctly!!!

sudo chmod o+r <old drive>

sudo chmod o+rw <new drive>

navigate to directory where you extracted the binaries (jar and scripts)

./testLayout.sh <old drive> (note used free & total numbers for comparison)

I then navigated back to the top directory (noted but not sure if this mattered)

ddrescue –r 3 <old drive> <new drive> (it did run about 3 hours)

when done, I navigated back to directory where I extracted the binaries (jar and scripts)

sudo ./mfsadd.sh <new drive>

./testLayout.sh <new drive> (check numbers to see if they size increased)

The size increased, so I shut down the computer disconnected the new drive and put it back in the Tivo. I fired up the Tivo and ran the clear and delete. Success!


Awesome write up thanks
However I am having some issues
I loaded Ubuntu on my lappy, installed both JRE 6 and DDrescue, copied my Javabin to the documents folder under a dir called javabin, I navigate to it, run the commands but I recieve an error from these commands

sudo hdparm –i <old drive>
/dev/sdc:
HDIO_DRIVE_CMD(identify) failed:Invalid Exchange
HDIO_GET_IDENTIITY Failed:Invalid argument

I get the same error when I run it for the <new drive>

Also when I run my command

./testLayout.sh <old drive> " I recieve a permission denied error. I then followed it up with the "sudo" but get the error
sudo: testLayout.sh: command not found

what gives???????

[cmonroe]

Followed the instructions in this thread using a WD20EARS in my Premiere and it worked great! Very nice set of tools. Before I begin I set the acoustic management to 128, and did not jumper pin 7 and 8. So far my Premiere has been up and running for almost 24 hours with no issues. Thanks guys!

[RichB]

Awesome write up thanks
However I am having some issues
I loaded Ubuntu on my lappy, installed both JRE 6 and DDrescue, copied my Javabin to the documents folder under a dir called javabin, I navigate to it, run the commands but I recieve an error from these commands

sudo hdparm –i <old drive>
/dev/sdc:
HDIO_DRIVE_CMD(identify) failed:Invalid Exchange
HDIO_GET_IDENTIITY Failed:Invalid argument

I get the same error when I run it for the <new drive>

Also when I run my command

./testLayout.sh <old drive> " I recieve a permission denied error. I then followed it up with the "sudo" but get the error
sudo: testLayout.sh: command not found

what gives???????

I just ran this command first to be root for the duration:

sudo -s

My upgrade went well using the midlomuncher procedure (Thanks).
I had to make sure the system searched for all the packages.
Then it was fine.

I also had to set my controller the AHCI mode. The disks were not found in IDE mode.

Thanks comer for the scripts. I came away with 290 hours of HD.

I do find the EARS drive appears slower than my stock PXL.
I wonder if a WD black drive with AAM set might be a better choice for performance. Anyone tried that?

- Rich

[midlomuncher]

Awesome write up thanks
However I am having some issues
I loaded Ubuntu on my lappy, installed both JRE 6 and DDrescue, copied my Javabin to the documents folder under a dir called javabin, I navigate to it, run the commands but I recieve an error from these commands

sudo hdparm –i <old drive>
/dev/sdc:
HDIO_DRIVE_CMD(identify) failed:Invalid Exchange
HDIO_GET_IDENTIITY Failed:Invalid argument

I get the same error when I run it for the <new drive>

Also when I run my command

./testLayout.sh <old drive> " I recieve a permission denied error. I then followed it up with the "sudo" but get the error
sudo: testLayout.sh: command not found

what gives???????

cr33p,

I can't help will this, maybe comer can chime in with his expertise.

JS

[comer]

sudo hdparm –i <old drive>
/dev/sdc:
HDIO_DRIVE_CMD(identify) failed:Invalid Exchange
HDIO_GET_IDENTIITY Failed:Invalid argument

I get the same error when I run it for the <new drive>


It can happen when your controller is not recognized (no driver) or the drives are connected through USB. It's not a problem as long as you know which drive is which - i.e. as an example (YMMV) that /dev/sda is your source Tivo drive and /dev/sdb is your new big drive. If you don't and have no way of knowing (hdparm does not work) - do not change the SATA ports(!), disconnect one of the drives and see which one disappeared in your system ;)


Also when I run my command

./testLayout.sh <old drive> " I recieve a permission denied error. I then followed it up with the "sudo" but get the error
sudo: testLayout.sh: command not found

what gives???????

Use "sudo" before command: "sudo ./testLayout.sh <drive>"

[RichB]

It can happen when your controller is not recognized (no driver) or the drives are connected through USB. It's not a problem as long as you know which drive is which - i.e. as an example (YMMV) that /dev/sda is your source Tivo drive and /dev/sdb is your new big drive. If you don't and have no way of knowing (hdparm does not work) - do not change the SATA ports(!), disconnect one of the drives and see which one disappeared in your system ;) >


Try AHCI if you are SATA connected.


Use "sudo" before command: "sudo ./testLayout.sh <drive>"

sudo -s

Can be done once to switch the super user for all of the command and not have to type it at each line.

[cr33p]

It can happen when your controller is not recognized (no driver) or the drives are connected through USB. It's not a problem as long as you know which drive is which - i.e. as an example (YMMV) that /dev/sda is your source Tivo drive and /dev/sdb is your new big drive. If you don't and have no way of knowing (hdparm does not work) - do not change the SATA ports(!), disconnect one of the drives and see which one disappeared in your system ;)



Use "sudo" before command: "sudo ./testLayout.sh <drive>"

Yes the drives are connected via usb to sata adapter

I have tried the "sudo" in front of the command but then recieve "command not found"

[cr33p]

Try AHCI if you are SATA connected.



sudo -s

Can be done once to switch the super user for all of the command and not have to type it at each line.

I will try the sudo -s and see what happens.

Now just to check, could this be an issue with my java install? Or is it a permissions problem? I know linux but not enough

thanks guys :)

[comer]

I will try the sudo -s and see what happens.

Now just to check, could this be an issue with my java install? Or is it a permissions problem? I know linux but not enough

thanks guys :)

Try "java -version". If you get "command not found" then you need to set PATH to your Java.
export PATH=$PATH:<dir where java is installed>/bin
Though it was supposed to be set by install (did not work?).

[donnoh]

Linux brings back memories from the old days when I used to know as much about Unix as I did DOS. I thought the days were over when I had to enter commands at a prompt.
Oh well, I guess old school meets new school again. I guess us old farts aren't quite as obsolete as I thought.

[cr33p]

Try "java -version". If you get "command not found" then you need to set PATH to your Java.
export PATH=$PATH:<dir where java is installed>/bin
Though it was supposed to be set by install (did not work?).

Ok so, I checked the javaversion and I show
Java version "1.6.0_18"
Open JDK Runtime Enviroment
Open JDK Server VM

So just to make sure im not utterly retarded. My command is as follows in my dir that is containing all of the mfsjava files that are already extracted

./testLayout.sh /dev/sdc

then I also added sudo in front of that command

[comer]

Ok so, I checked the javaversion and I show
Java version "1.6.0_18"
Open JDK Runtime Enviroment
Open JDK Server VM


Yes, Java seems fine.


So just to make sure im not utterly retarded. My command is as follows in my dir that is containing all of the mfsjava files that are already extracted

./testLayout.sh /dev/sdc

then I also added sudo in front of that command

Correct, so it should be "sudo ./testLayout.sh /dev/sdc".
And could you also check that you have "./test.sh"?

[cr33p]

Yes, Java seems fine.



Correct, so it should be "sudo ./testLayout.sh /dev/sdc".
And could you also check that you have "./test.sh"?

Yes I have all files needed including the test.sh
its really weird no matter what I try I either get permission denied when running the command without sudo, even with full root access. Or I get the error

-bash: ./testLayout.sh /dev/sdc: no such file or directory

However ddrescue will run and copy with no problems at all from one drive to the other. So I know my drives are their and accessible

[comer]

Yes I have all files needed including the test.sh
its really weird no matter what I try I either get permission denied when running the command without sudo, even with full root access. Or I get the error

-bash: ./testLayout.sh /dev/sdc: no such file or directory

However ddrescue will run and copy with no problems at all from one drive to the other. So I know my drives are their and accessible

Oh! Do this:
chmod +x ./*.sh
and then try :)

[cr33p]

Oh! Do this:
chmod +x ./*.sh
and then try :)

5 1/2 hrs and counting on copying drive via usb/sata adapters :( This will not do for me next time, I will be connecting directly to mbd, I have an avg of 10459kbps, what is everyone elses avg thus far?

[ultatryon]

I just completed my copy and expansion onto a WD10EARS drive, using my AMD 785G based motherboard, I was getting an average of 40MB/s during the ddrescue phase. This is using AHCI.

On a side note, and not to belittle anyones work on this, but there must be a better way of doing this then using ddrescue.. its not really necessary to copy over 300gigs of 0's. 3 hours for the raw copy is just painful, especially when its only a few gigs of actual data that is moving over. I am glad I didnt just copy the DVR_Dude drive that I have in my other unit.. that would have taken 10 hours easy!

[bsmith1051]

old farts aren't quite as obsolete as I thought.
some things never go away... :-)

[cr33p]

Oh! Do this:
chmod +x ./*.sh
and then try :)

It worked !!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

I am now a proud member of the 2tb club ;)

Comer if my used space was 3.68gb us that likely a virgin image?

Also to output my stock image to save I would use /dev/sda/premiere.img as my target rather then the new drive? sda=laptops internal drive

[rdangel]

I just upgraded my Premier yesterday! A 2TB tivo!!!

Anyway, I also created a virgin image of the tivo premier as requested. I am not sure about the legality of distribution of it but PM me if you have ideas.

[wluk]

Hey folks, another success story. 290 HD hours in my TP as of this morning. Loading it up now by transfering content from my 2TB Tivo S3 rig. I wanted to get away from having an external HD because my kids are a little rowdy and I worry about the extra target during the nerf wars.

Anyhow, as a linux newbie I followed comer's directions. The first time, I ran into an insurmountable error trying to run the tool. So, I decided to start over, do everything right and document my procedure. Hopefully, my procedure can help supplement comer’s instructions and get some of you off the fence!

Standard warnings apply: Proceed at your own risk.

1) I went here and and downloaded the 32-bit desktop edition .iso and then burned a boot DVD. http://www.ubuntu.com/desktop/get-ubuntu/download

2) I disconnected all SATA disks in my Hackintosh and connected the original Tivo drive and the new 2TB WD20EARS drive (powered off & disconnected for this of course!)

3) After connecting both disks, I booted from the Ubuntu 10.04 Boot DVD. I found the easiest way to get a Java Runtime Edition (JRE) and ddrescue installed was to use the Synaptic Package Manager.

In the MENU BAR select:
SYSTEM > ADMINISTRATION > SYNAPTIC PACKAGE MANAGER, then in the left pane select ALL and then in the right pane check ddrescue and default-jre. The other required package element check boxes will self-populate as needed. Then don’t forget to click APPLY.

I performed one other action in the SPM:
SYSTEM > ADMINISTRATION > SYNAPTIC PACKAGE MANAGER > SETTINGS > REPOSITORIES > UBUNTU SOFTWARE, I checked all the boxes except source code and then don’t forget to click RELOAD.

You are done and can close the SPM.

4) Then in my Dowloads folder I created 2 folders for comer’s tool. I named the first javabin and the second javasrc. I downloaded and extracted the binaries (jar and scripts) to the javabin folder and the Sources to the javasrc folder.

5) Finally, I made my way into the Terminal and got to work! I tried all of the commands as written by comer with the appropriate drive names. Some commands worked the first time and some commands gave an error, so I re-entered the command with “sudo” in front and all the commands that didn’t execute then executed properly.

In Terminal:

fdisk –l (my disks listed: /dev/sda is the original, /dev/sdb is the 2TB)

WARNING: These drive names will be dependent on your system. Make sure you verify your drive names and use them correctly!!!*****

sudo hdparm –i <old drive> (info on original Tivo disk)

sudo hdparm –i <new drive> (info on new TB disk)

WARNING x2: These drive names will be dependent on your system. Make sure you verify your drive names and use them correctly!!!

sudo chmod o+r <old drive>

sudo chmod o+rw <new drive>

navigate to directory where you extracted the binaries (jar and scripts)

./testLayout.sh <old drive> (note used free & total numbers for comparison)

I then navigated back to the top directory (noted but not sure if this mattered)

ddrescue –r 3 <old drive> <new drive> (it did run about 3 hours)

when done, I navigated back to directory where I extracted the binaries (jar and scripts)

sudo ./mfsadd.sh <new drive>

./testLayout.sh <new drive> (check numbers to see if they size increased)

The size increased, so I shut down the computer disconnected the new drive and put it back in the Tivo. I fired up the Tivo and ran the clear and delete. Success!

I am transferring the data to the new 1.5gb hard drive now. It is indeed very slow.

I stopped it once because there was an error with errsize 226kb. Not sure if it matters or not so I "Ctrl-C" it and started it over again. But then it had the same error the second time? How can I tell if the error is coming from the source or the destination drive?

So far the instruction is very easy to follow. The only thing I had problem was finding ddrescue from Synaptic Package Manage. I had to perform the step below first before I could find it.


I performed one other action in the SPM:
SYSTEM > ADMINISTRATION > SYNAPTIC PACKAGE MANAGER > SETTINGS > REPOSITORIES > UBUNTU SOFTWARE, I checked all the boxes except source code and then don’t forget to click RELOAD.


Then I also had to download/install gddrescue (on top of ddrescue) from Synaptic Package Manage in order to run ddrescue.

Info on installing gddrescue:
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/21876/rescue-old-damaged-cds-with-an-ubuntu-live-cd/

[comer]

It worked !!!!!!!!!!!!!! :)

I am now a proud member of the 2tb club ;)


Yay! :up::D

Comer if my used space was 3.68gb us that likely a virgin image?


When you make an image of the disk it is always the size of the original disk - i.e. 320G, but compressed - it take less, because of all the zeroes. In you case - likely much less (I guess a few Gs) because only 1% was used.

Also to output my stock image to save I would use /dev/sda/premiere.img as my target rather then the new drive? sda=laptops internal drive

Yes, if you want to backup, you need to create a image file rather than a clone drive. Don't forget to mount the partition on which you want to ouput your file ;)
There's got to be some graphic mounting tool (I don't know for sure - don't use ubuntu, but others do have it), or command "mount <target partition like /dev/sda1> <directory on the disk - must exist like /mnt/sda1>". After that you work with your disk as if it is that directory - creating file in "/mnt/sda1" would create file on the disk.

[comer]

I am transferring the data to the new 1.5gb hard drive now. It is indeed very slow.

I stopped it once because there was an error with errsize 226kb. Not sure if it matters or not so I "Ctrl-C" it and started it over again. But then it had the same error the second time? How can I tell if the error is coming from the source or the destination drive?


Sorry to hear that :( I don't remember exactly, but doesn't the error message say read or write error?
You can try to ignore it - use "-n" paremeter instead of "-r 3":
ddrescue -n /dev/old_disk /dev/new_disk rescued.log

The last parameter - is the log file needed to retry error areas. After the "good" run completes, retry errors:
ddrescue -r 5 /dev/old_disk /dev/new_disk rescued.log

It will use the log file to retry read/write errors only.

You can also try using drive manufacturers utilities to scan/test the drive. The WD tests are non-destructive and can correct some errors (I did have a bad block on my original Tivo drive - was fixed by these tools).
WD Disgnostic Tool (http://support.wdc.com/product/download.asp?groupid=608&sid=30&lang=en)
I recommend using it from clean environment (i.e. not Windows variety)

[wluk]

It didn't say read or write error. This is all I have on the screen.


rescued: 320072 MB, errsize: 4096 B, current rate: 0 B/s
ipos: 3040 MB, errors: 1, average rate: 29453 kB/s
opos: 3040 MB, time from last successful read: 10.2 m
Finished


I will try the WD Disgnostic Tool and see what's going on.

Thanks

[comer]

Is there any tradition here around the post #666? :D:D

[wluk]

The -n and -r 5 with the log file couldn't fix the problem. The result is the same and I couldn't get the WD Disgnostic Tool to work. I will try it again tomorrow.

I am running chkdsk on the new drive to make sure it isn't the new drive problem.

But I used the new drive to boot up TiVo and it works fine it seems.

Sorry to hear that :( I don't remember exactly, but doesn't the error message say read or write error?
You can try to ignore it - use "-n" paremeter instead of "-r 3":


The last parameter - is the log file needed to retry error areas. After the "good" run completes, retry errors:


It will use the log file to retry read/write errors only.

You can also try using drive manufacturers utilities to scan/test the drive. The WD tests are non-destructive and can correct some errors (I did have a bad block on my original Tivo drive - was fixed by these tools).
WD Disgnostic Tool (http://support.wdc.com/product/download.asp?groupid=608&sid=30&lang=en)
I recommend using it from clean environment (i.e. not Windows variety)

[comer]

The -n and -r 5 with the log file couldn't fix the problem. The result is the same and I couldn't get the WD Disgnostic Tool to work. I will try it again tomorrow.

I am running chkdsk on the new drive to make sure it isn't the new drive problem.

But I used the new drive to boot up TiVo and it works fine it seems.

If the bad sector was in unused space then the new disk should be just fine. Which is likely, considering that only 1% of the virgin drive is used.
However, if the new drive has a hole in it, not the old one, then when Tivo gets to it eventually - it will result in error or lost data.
So checking the drive with WD tool seems like a very good idea. Another, albeit crude, way to check if the source drive is bad is to do "dd" copy to "/dev/null". If there is a an error it could only come from the source drive.

[wluk]

I do hope the bad sector is in unused on the source. The new drive was scanned and there was no bad sector.

I couldn't get the WD tool to work because it kept saying the license file not found. Then I got the UBCD image which has the same WD tool in there. However when I ran it, the WD had a 132 code so I gave up.

132 Command Error Command Aborted. Please ensure that you are using the version of diagnostic utility corresponding to either newer or older Western Digital drives.


Now that my new drive is working and all I want to do is to create a backup image of the old drive. I am been searching for tools to do it in Windows as I am not very good with Linux without someone spoon feed me the commands.

I really want to thank comer for his great work.

[comer]

Now that my new drive is working and all I want to do is to create a backup image of the old drive. I am been searching for tools to do it in Windows as I am not very good with Linux without someone spoon feed me the commands.


If you know what "mount" is, then it's anly a matter of running the same "ddrescue" or "dd" (possibly with compression), but using a path to a file where your backup image will be stored. See here (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=8110243#post8110243)
If you don't - I think Paragon Disk Manager should be able to backup the drive with "raw" access turned on.

I really want to thank comer for his great work.

No problem - buy me a beer :up::D:D

[wluk]

I followed this link to mount my Windows drive to Ubuntu

http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/mounting-windows-partition-onto-ubuntu-linux/

Then change directory to the folder with the mounted drive and run this command

dd if=/dev/sdb | bzip2 -c9 >tivo.img.bz2

"/dev/sdb" would the source drive. "tivo.img.bz2" would be the output file name.

however the output file size with the compressed option is still 300gb as opposes to 3gb?

[donnoh]

I love this thread. There is nothing better than people hacking a Tivo and making it better!

[comer]

I followed this link to mount my Windows drive to Ubuntu

http://www.cyberciti.biz/faq/mounting-windows-partition-onto-ubuntu-linux/

Then change directory to the folder with the mounted drive and run this command

dd if=/dev/sdb | bzip2 -c9 >tivo.img.bz2

"/dev/sdb" would the source drive. "tivo.img.bz2" would be the output file name.

Just make sure the "tivo.img.bz2" is created on Windows drive, i.e. I would make it explicit "<mounted drive>/tivo.img.bz2".

however the output file size with the compressed option is still 300gb as opposes to 3gb?

Yes, it was discussed, sometimes it's hard to compress Tivo drive. Oh well, until someone (me?) comes out with partial backup we have to live with huge files.

[comer]

The jmfs Live CD has arrived here (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968). :up:

[comer]

It is awfully quiet today. What's going on? :eek:

[RichB]

It is awfully quiet today. What's going on? :eek:

Thanks for the new disk.
My Friend orders a Premiere on Sunday and a new drive. I will give it a spin next week.

I think people are waiting for the Premiere stock to come back up.

- Rich

[cr33p]

It is awfully quiet today. What's going on? :eek:

I wonder if all the true "Hackers" have all upgraded thus far ? With the introduction of this new Live CD I'm sure we will see many more folks here chiming in.

Comer, what does it take to clean up a "virgin" image to make it bootable to any Tivo without a C&D everything? I know the hybrid image Mr Brolovski had was set like that and Dvr Dude's is like that yeah? What are these guys doing to the image?

[comer]

I wonder if all the true "Hackers" have all upgraded thus far ? With the introduction of this new Live CD I'm sure we will see many more folks here chiming in.

Comer, what does it take to clean up a "virgin" image to make it bootable to any Tivo without a C&D everything? I know the hybrid image Mr Brolovski had was set like that and Dvr Dude's is like that yeah? What are these guys doing to the image?

I don't know, honestly :) If I had to guess, I'd say that there's a database of settings on the drive, where the information of a married hardware is stored. Tivo decided not to be too hard if that information is missing - just restore it to where it is supposed to be.
It's should not be too hard to investigate what exactly is changing with C&DE. First, C&DE (to minimize area changes - movies will be all gone), then marry the drive again, take an image, then C&DE and compare :)

I think this feature is useless for an average user. For commercial cloning on the other hand... ;)

[gespears]

The jmfs Live CD has arrived here (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968). :up:

Thanks again Comer for all your hard work. You ARE the man!

Does this new disk have instructions for just making a copy of the disk? I have a 2tb I want to make a backup of. It has several recordings on it I don't want to loose if it craps out. Of course they have that stupid copy protection so I can't transfer them off to anything else.

Thanks!

[aaronwt]

will the new 3TB drives work in the Premiere?

[kturcotte]

will the new 3TB drives work in the Premiere?

Don't think so, but I hope so. Ever larger would be nice. LOVE to have an even 1000 HD hours of space. Course, just imagine how much space we'll need when we hit UHD (Ultra High Definition) lol

[comer]

will the new 3TB drives work in the Premiere?

Not to the full capacity yet.

[wp746911]

mmm 3Tb- makes 2 tb seem so last week

[comer]

mmm 3Tb- makes 2 tb seem so last week

Are they out yet? Where, how much? :)

[orangeboy]

Are they out yet? Where, how much? :)

Me thinks someone wants to experiment... :D

[kturcotte]

Are they out yet? Where, how much? :)

Hoping they come out soon. Should drive the price of the 2 TB drives down. Wait-I already know when they'll ship-the day AFTER I buy a 2 TB and the prices drop to $75 lol

[comer]

Me thinks someone wants to experiment... :D

You got that right :D Just today I though of creating an LVM volume of 3T to experiment. I wouldn't be able to test it in Tivo, of course, but at least I would test the tool ;)

[aaronwt]

Are they out yet? Where, how much? :)

Not sure what you're puffing but 3TB drives are not available yet. There are 3TB enclosures available that consist of 2 1.5TB drives striped together.

Seagate came out with a five platter 3TB drive this Summer. The drive is a 3TB Barracuda XT, 7200rpm.
Right now it is only in an external enclosure so you have to break the case open to access the 3TB drive. Supposedly they will release the bare 3TB drive later this year or early next. Here is a review from AnandTech.
The World's First 3TB HDD: Seagate GoFlex Desk 3TB Review (http://www.anandtech.com/show/3858/the-worlds-first-3tb-hdd-seagate-goflex-desk-3tb-review)

Circuit City has them as well as other places. It's $200
http://www.circuitcity.com/applications/searchtools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6470574&SRCCODE=CCDCNET&cm_mmc_o=2mHCjC2WHaCjCVqHCjCdwwp&cpncode=23-110731044-2

At only $200 for the external enclosure and drive for 3TB is realtively cheap. When the first 1TB drives came out, they were five platters too. Hitachi had them out and I had to pay around $275 each for two hitachi external drives to get my hands on the 1TB drives so I could put them in my TiVos.

[Jonathan_S]

mmm 3Tb- makes 2 tb seem so last weekAre they out yet? Where, how much? :)Seagate released their 3TB drive back in June. But, because windows apparently has issues with 3TB boot drives, they've only made it avalible as an external drive. It's just a normal 3.5" sata drive in an external USB case, though, so there's no reason you couldn't just ditch the case.

Amazon carries it for 200 bucks.

[comer]

Seagate released their 3TB drive back in June. But, because windows apparently has issues with 3TB boot drives, they've only made it avalible as an external drive. It's just a normal 3.5" sata drive in an external USB case, though, so there's no reason you couldn't just ditch the case.

Amazon carries it for 200 bucks.

Indeed, Newegg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148580) too. Alright then, as soon as I have big enough pile of cash, I am getting it :D

[wp746911]

yeah but 7200 rpm - dont know if I would want this in full time- good for experimental usage

[aaronwt]

yeah but 7200 rpm - dont know if I would want this in full time- good for experimental usage

if it only produces heat similar to the 5 platter 1Terabyte Hitachi drives then it might not be a problem. My girlfriend still has two series 3 models each with the 5 platter 1TB hitachi drives. They have been running basically 24/7 since the 1TB drives were first released. They have not caused any issues in the Series 3 boxes.
the largest drive I have in my Premiere is a 2TB drive. I think it is a 4 platter drive and it is a 7200rpm drive. That TiVo only runs 2 degress hotter than with the stock 320GB drive(using the TiVo temp in the sys info screen)

[rdangel]

Guys, I have a 2.0GB virgin premier image (compressed) that is ready to go. Anybody want to test it? PM me your email address and I will send it to you.

The image was directly from the 320GB disk that was never booted in the Tivo. Went from Box, to linux box to image.

[kturcotte]

Would an SSD increase performance any (I know, size and price lol just curious)?

[richsadams]

It's just a normal 3.5" sata drive in an external USB case, though, so there's no reason you couldn't just ditch the case.The only downside in doing that is that it voids the warranty. I've no idea if Seagate could tell if the enclosure has been opened or if you could slip it back in if it went south in the next three years. IIRC you had to basically destroy their FAP's to get them open. WD makes their externals impossible to open w/o doing some damage. Just a thought...but if it were me I wouldn't want that kind of investment to become a doorstop.

[RichB]

Would an SSD increase performance any (I know, size and price lol just curious)?

This is probably the worst possible use of an SSD.
The less expensive (Still very expensive) drives use MLC which have limited writes but the newer drives load balance. It would be a great way to learn just how long these drives can work. 240 Gig for $600 is not great.

BTW, my WD 2TB EARS is very quiet. Much quieter than my stock PXL drive.

- Rich

[richsadams]

Would an SSD increase performance any (I know, size and price lol just curious)?TiVo's OEM drives are 5400RPM w/2MB cache and 7200RPM drives (16, 32 or 64MB cache) don't improve performance so my WAG is that an SSD wouldn't make much difference either. But if money's burning a hole in your pocket you could join Comer and others in the TiVo Pioneer Club! :D

[kturcotte]

This is probably the worst possible use of an SSD.
The less expensive (Still very expensive) drives use MLC which have limited writes but the newer drives load balance. It would be a great way to learn just how long these drives can work. 240 Gig for $600 is not great.

BTW, my WD 2TB EARS is very quiet. Much quieter than my stock PXL drive.

- Rich

Exactly-I'd be SCARED to find out what the 2 TB drives cost when they finally get to them!!!! Just wondering if it would in fact increase performance?

[donnoh]

if it only produces heat similar to the 5 platter 1Terabyte Hitachi drives then it might not be a problem. My girlfriend still has two series 3 models each with the 5 platter 1TB hitachi drives. They have been running basically 24/7 since the 1TB drives were first released. They have not caused any issues in the Series 3 boxes.
the largest drive I have in my Premiere is a 2TB drive. I think it is a 4 platter drive and it is a 7200rpm drive. That TiVo only runs 2 degress hotter than with the stock 320GB drive(using the TiVo temp in the sys info screen)

You must not love your girlfriend, you haven't upgraded her to Premieres yet.

[comer]

You must not love your girlfriend, you haven't upgraded her to Premieres yet.

:D:D Good one! :D:D You should sell this slogan to Tivo :D:D

[RichB]

Exactly-I'd be SCARED to find out what the 2 TB drives cost when they finally get to them!!!! Just wondering if it would in fact increase performance?

Absolutely, SSD's vary in performance but the Vertex 2 I run on my system is fantastic.

- Rich

[Shagger]

I am planning on getting the Tivo Premiere and was going to just add a 1TB or 2TB eSATA drive in my Antec MX-1 enclosure? Is this a solid plan? The $200 savings by not getting the XL is mitigated by the drive cost and the fact that I just don't feel like cracking open the Premiere and cloning the drive. (yes, I am lazy!) :)

[kturcotte]

I am planning on getting the Tivo Premiere and was going to just add a 1TB or 2TB eSATA drive in my Antec MX-1 enclosure? Is this a solid plan? The $200 savings by not getting the XL is mitigated by the drive cost and the fact that I just don't feel like cracking open the Premiere and cloning the drive. (yes, I am lazy!) :)

Never been a fan of external drives. More power, and greater possibility of something going wrong (2 drives vs 1).

[richsadams]

I am planning on getting the Tivo Premiere and was going to just add a 1TB or 2TB eSATA drive in my Antec MX-1 enclosure? Is this a solid plan? The $200 savings by not getting the XL is mitigated by the drive cost and the fact that I just don't feel like cracking open the Premiere and cloning the drive. (yes, I am lazy!) :)If it were only that simple. The problem is that every TiVo except the original Series3 recognizes expansion drives by the actual hard drive model number. Since whatever you want to connect to your Premiere is not the "authorized" WD My DVR Expander or the WD My Book AV DVR Expander you'd still have to open up your TiVo, pull the hard drive, connect both drives to a computer and marry them manually. FWIW I don't think anyone has done that (with a Premier at least)...almost certainly for that reason. If the drive has to be pulled and imaged anyway, why not just upgrade?

It was a nice thought though. ;)

[aaronwt]

You must not love your girlfriend, you haven't upgraded her to Premieres yet.

I gave her the option of keeping her S3 units or giving her two Premieres and selling the S3 boxes. She wanted to keep the S3 boxes since she was more familiar with them. Of course I can't stand using them now since I don't like the SDUI.
So if there are alot of shows recorded that we watch, I will just take one of the Premieres with me when I go to her house instead of having to view them with her S3 boxes.

[kturcotte]

Seagate released their 3TB drive back in June. But, because windows apparently has issues with 3TB boot drives, they've only made it avalible as an external drive. It's just a normal 3.5" sata drive in an external USB case, though, so there's no reason you couldn't just ditch the case.

Amazon carries it for 200 bucks.

64 bit Windows shouldn't have any problem with it should it, as long as it's not your boot drive?

[lessd]

So if there are alot of shows recorded that we watch, I will just take one of the Premieres with me when I go to her house instead of having to view them with her S3 boxes.

OK!!! you go through the effort to disconnect you home TP lug it to her home connect it to her HDTV just so you can get to a program you both want to watch using the HDUI, (I am assuming she has the same program recorded in HD on her Series 3) than bring the TP back to your home and reconnect. To get to a program I want to watch is about 2 to 6 seconds using the SD menu, than 1 hour of watching what you recorded. Are you pulling our leg, or I guess some people really have a lot of religion about some things. (I will if at all possible never use any TiVo that does not have a HDUI, I don't care how much trouble it is for me)

[aaronwt]

OK!!! you go through the effort to disconnect you home TP lug it to her home connect it to her HDTV just so you can get to a program you both want to watch using the HDUI, (I am assuming she has the same program recorded in HD on her Series 3) than bring the TP back to your home and reconnect. To get to a program I want to watch is about 2 to 6 seconds using the SD menu, than 1 hour of watching what you recorded. Are you pulling our leg, or I guess some people really have a lot of religion about some things. (I will if at all possible never use any TiVo that does not have a HDUI, I don't care how much trouble it is for me)
First it's only if there are alot of recordings, then it's not just the Sd menu. She records from OTA only and since the switch to VHF for a couple of stations in the DC area they can sometimes have issues.
If it's only two or three shows I will bring my PopBox over and we will either watch it from the PopBox or from her Tivo. if there are more shows(especially if they are from cable)I will just take the Premiere with me just in case. That Premiere is easy to access and I can have the cables removed and have it wrapped in a towel in under a minute. I'll usually grab it just before I head out the door.

[rdangel]

Well, on behalf of many, I thank you for your effort!

What is the file extension of the image and what tools are capable of, or required, to work with it? Also, for the Windows people, myself included, are there any Windows-based programs that can work with it?


My image is gzipped, but I believe modern day winzip can unzip that. I used ubuntu to build the image, it was really easy and I am NOT a linux guy. I have my boot drive on a flash drive so I pop it in, boot ubuntu and run the commands in comer's email. Its really easy, so easy I could do this again and again.. Makes me think that I should go the ebay route, but I dont want the hassle and would feel guilty charging for Comer's heavy lifting.

I felt better about myself after donating a small amount to Comer as I would be nowhere without his hard work.

[gespears]

Hey Comer, still wondering the following:

Does this new disk have instructions for just making a copy of the disk? I have a 2tb I want to make a backup of. It has several recordings on it I don't want to loose if it craps out. Of course they have that stupid copy protection so I can't transfer them off to anything else.

Thanks!

[comer]

Hey Comer, still wondering the following:

Does this new disk have instructions for just making a copy of the disk? I have a 2tb I want to make a backup of. It has several recordings on it I don't want to loose if it craps out. Of course they have that stupid copy protection so I can't transfer them off to anything else.

Thanks!

The instructions are primarily about upgrading stock disk for a bigger one with more space for recordings. There are instructions for making a full disk backup as well, mostly in this thread. Full backup does not truncate anything - it is basically a disk image. Even compressed it can be as big as the original disk.

[Shagger]

OK - so I have convinced my self that I will save $$$ by NOT getting the XL and buy a larger drive and install it myself. I did do an expansion on my S2DT Tivo and I am one of those guys that will tinker (build all my own PC's, run CAT5e in the house, do the brakes on the cars, change the oil, etc...) so I guess I will do this expansion myself. Are there any drives to stay away from (reliabilty, 4K issue, etc...)? I realize that the manufacturer reliability is cyclical, (Seagate used to be top dog) but who is currently king? Are people going with 1TB, 1.5TB or 2TB drives? I'd rather do this on a pristine, right out of the box Tivo to minimize transfer time, so I want to get all my parts together prior to starting the assembly.

[scoombs]

Seagate released their 3TB drive back in June. But, because windows apparently has issues with 3TB boot drives, they've only made it avalible as an external drive. It's just a normal 3.5" sata drive in an external USB case, though, so there's no reason you couldn't just ditch the case.


Here is a write-up on the 3TB drive including using it internally.
http://www.anandtech.com/show/3858/the-worlds-first-3tb-hdd-seagate-goflex-desk-3tb-review

[comer]

Are there any drives to stay away from (reliabilty, 4K issue, etc...)? I realize that the manufacturer reliability is cyclical, (Seagate used to be top dog) but who is currently king? Are people going with 1TB, 1.5TB or 2TB drives? I'd rather do this on a pristine, right out of the box Tivo to minimize transfer time, so I want to get all my parts together prior to starting the assembly.

I didn't do a poll on the subject, but it seems that WD and Hitachi are preferred (in this order). It makes sense to go with 2T drive vs smaller ones - price difference is small, but space is a lot bigger.

[richsadams]

OK - so I have convinced my self that I will save $$$ by NOT getting the XL and buy a larger drive and install it myself. I did do an expansion on my S2DT Tivo and I am one of those guys that will tinker (build all my own PC's, run CAT5e in the house, do the brakes on the cars, change the oil, etc...) so I guess I will do this expansion myself. Are there any drives to stay away from (reliabilty, 4K issue, etc...)? I realize that the manufacturer reliability is cyclical, (Seagate used to be top dog) but who is currently king? Are people going with 1TB, 1.5TB or 2TB drives? I'd rather do this on a pristine, right out of the box Tivo to minimize transfer time, so I want to get all my parts together prior to starting the assembly.FWIW if I were going to upgrade my Premiere XL today I'd go with Western Digital's WD20EVDS:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136494

Price-wise it's a little higher than some of the other WD 2TB drives, but it's a dedicated A/V hard drive so the AAM is already set to 128 and based on recent reports if this drive has been manufactured after August 1 or so the issue with the Intellipark feature and soft reboots doesn't apply. So that would be my choice of the moment.

I used to be a die-hard Seagate man, but over the past few years their QC has plummeted for some reason. Seems like that happened about the same time they acquired Maxtor, but it could be a coincidence. So WD has moved from lower in the food chain to near the top if not top on my list now. I've also had great success with Hitachi's Deskstar 7K1000.C HD31000 IDK/7K (http://www.hitachigst.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/33586ADC145D59A086257603007B022E/$file/DS7K1000.C_DS_final.pdf). (http://amzn.to/cinYZz or http://amzn.to/bmY99L) They run very cool and quiet and the three I have have been flawless for over a year now. They are 1TB however so I'm not sure about the 2TB version.

BTW, at today's current prices I wouldn't waste my time with a 1TB or 1.5TB drive. My rule of thumb has always been buy as much space as you can afford even if you don't think you'll use it.

The 4K Sector format hasn't affected TiVo upgrades to date.

I'm sure others will chime in but hope that helps and happy upgrading!

[slowbiscuit]

Any luck on figuring out how to enable MFS supersize to get the reserved space back?

[Shagger]

Are there any fan headers inside the Premiere box to keep the drives cool?

[richsadams]

Are there any fan headers inside the Premiere box to keep the drives cool?TiVo Premier's have the typical single exhaust fan.

http://i56.tinypic.com/2e4jgud.jpg

[RichB]

TiVo Premier's have the typical single exhaust fan.

http://i56.tinypic.com/2e4jgud.jpg

Yes, one connector.

My TiVo XL has a very noisy fan, I am not sure if it began that way though.
I have a couple of replacements I will try out.

- Rich

[cap]

The jmfs Live CD has arrived here (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455968). :up:

Trying the cd now. Great job on this comer. I like how you worded it to explicity explain very clearly what you are doing.

I can't wait to fire the new upgraded TiVo up.

[richsadams]

Yes, one connector.

My TiVo XL has a very noisy fan, I am not sure if it began that way though.
I have a couple of replacements I will try out.

- RichHmmm…the fan on our TiVo PXL is near silent, so not normal. Where'd you find other fans? From other TiVo's? I haven't had a close look, is it a standard fan you can pick up at the local computer store? The older TiVo fans were somewhat proprietary.

[Shagger]

One small hitch in my plan, I am planning on getting the Tivo deal for a free Premiere and pay $19.99 for the service. I'd have 30 days for satisfaction guaranteed, but cracking open the Tivo will void the warranty I am assuming. ;) In case of some kind of failure/disaster, I'd hate to be on the hook for $299. Any tips for opening the box without voiding the warranty?

[Shagger]

It looks like there is the SATA power connector in there, I wonder if it would be good to split that and run a fan connector in there to cool the HD further...

[richsadams]

One small hitch in my plan, I am planning on getting the Tivo deal for a free Premiere and pay $19.99 for the service. I'd have 30 days for satisfaction guaranteed, but cracking open the Tivo will void the warranty I am assuming. ;) In case of some kind of failure/disaster, I'd hate to be on the hook for $299. Any tips for opening the box without voiding the warranty?Yes, opening the case does void the warranty. Once upon a time TiVo had one of those little foil stickers wrapped around the case and the back of the box that would be destroyed if the case were opened. They gave up on that years ago though. TiVo modding is a known but never acknowledged activity with TiVo. There have only been a couple of reported instances where TiVo denied warranty service due to an upgrade (as long as the box was returned in original condition) over the years.

If you were to upgrade the hard drive TiVo can verify that if they look at their logs. Odds are remote that they would do that though.

If you keep the original hard drive on the shelf you can slip it back in and no one will be the wiser unless you leave half of your PB&J sandwich inside or have a code of ethics that requires you to confess everything you've ever done to anyone that will listen. ;)

In other words, there s/b nothing to worry about. That said, if it were me I wouldn't upgrade it until you're certain that it's working properly. It's recommended that anyone operate a new TiVo for 30 days or so to be sure it's going to be okay. Most problems with CE products show up very quickly, but a little "burn-in" time doesn't hurt. YMMV of course.

[richsadams]

It looks like there is the SATA power connector in there, I wonder if it would be good to split that and run a fan connector in there to cool the HD further...IMO you don't have anything to worry about. A number of reports here and elsewhere (with both Premiere, TiVo HD and Series3 upgrades) indicate that the larger hard drives aren't raising TiVo's ambient temperature more than a couple of degrees if at all. (The temperature can be viewed on TiVo's System Information screen at any time). If you avoid high-speed drives (a la, WD Black series or any gaming HDD) you s/b fine. The recommended WD GP and GP AV drives run quite cool and quiet.

[Shagger]

Well I had wanted to upgrade BEFORE I filled it up with recordings so the transfer went quicker. I suppose I should be patient and wait... :(

[RichB]

One small hitch in my plan, I am planning on getting the Tivo deal for a free Premiere and pay $19.99 for the service. I'd have 30 days for satisfaction guaranteed, but cracking open the Tivo will void the warranty I am assuming. ;) In case of some kind of failure/disaster, I'd hate to be on the hook for $299. Any tips for opening the box without voiding the warranty?

Save your disk and take care to not dent or scratch anything.
There is no seal that indicates that is was opened.
If unit fails, you first try the original disk, if it boots re-upgrade.
If not leave the original in and send it in that way.

- Rich

[RichB]

IMO you don't have anything to worry about. A number of reports here and elsewhere (with both Premiere, TiVo HD and Series3 upgrades) indicate that the larger hard drives aren't raising TiVo's ambient temperature more than a couple of degrees if at all. (The temperature can be viewed on TiVo's System Information screen at any time). If you avoid high-speed drives (a la, WD Black series or any gaming HDD) you s/b fine. The recommended WD GP and GP AV drives run quite cool and quiet.

It looked like a 50MMx25MM fan to me so I bought a couple.
My new Premiere fan is much quieter so it could be different fan and a defective one.

I will report back later.

- Rich

[Shagger]

IMO you don't have anything to worry about. A number of reports here and elsewhere (with both Premiere, TiVo HD and Series3 upgrades) indicate that the larger hard drives aren't raising TiVo's ambient temperature more than a couple of degrees if at all. (The temperature can be viewed on TiVo's System Information screen at any time). If you avoid high-speed drives (a la, WD Black series or any gaming HDD) you s/b fine. The recommended WD GP and GP AV drives run quite cool and quiet.
The drive speed can be 5400 rpm or should it be 7200?

[richsadams]

The drive speed can be 5400 rpm or should it be 7200?TiVo OEM drives are 5400 RPM. They require nothing faster than and there's no performance enhancement with anything more.

[comer]

Trying the cd now. Great job on this comer. I like how you worded it to explicity explain very clearly what you are doing.

I can't wait to fire the new upgraded TiVo up.

Glad you liked it! :up: I wish more people would test the process :)

[comer]

Well I had wanted to upgrade BEFORE I filled it up with recordings so the transfer went quicker. I suppose I should be patient and wait... :(

You don't miss anything :) The upgrade time does not depend on recordings. The longest portion is copying data from one disk to another - it will be the same 320G regardless.

[Shagger]

You don't miss anything :) The upgrade time does not depend on recordings. The longest portion is copying data from one disk to another - it will be the same 320G regardless.
But if the 320GB is empty, it still copies it over? Is that so it is a perfect clone of the original drive?

[richsadams]

I wish more people would test the process :)Why do I keep feeling this subtle elbow in my ribs? :confused: :)

[comer]

Is that so it is a perfect clone of the original drive?

Yep :) Basically, it's much harder (and thus error-prone) to analyze the drive and intelligently copy only used blocks, than to fire-and-forget a copy process for 2 hours :)

[Shagger]

IMO you don't have anything to worry about. A number of reports here and elsewhere (with both Premiere, TiVo HD and Series3 upgrades) indicate that the larger hard drives aren't raising TiVo's ambient temperature more than a couple of degrees if at all. (The temperature can be viewed on TiVo's System Information screen at any time). If you avoid high-speed drives (a la, WD Black series or any gaming HDD) you s/b fine. The recommended WD GP and GP AV drives run quite cool and quiet.
Even if the ambient Tivo case temp's don't rise that doesn't mean that the drive temp isn't elevated. Regardless, I always like to have a fan blowing directly on any drives I have in my computer cases. Gives me a little better piece of mind. Looks like this will do the trick: http://www.pchcables.com/3pinfeto23pi3.html

[comer]

Looks like this will do the trick: http://www.pchcables.com/3pinfeto23pi3.html

And hope that motherboard is powerfull enough to drive the double load on the fan header :)
I would solder to PS directly.

[cap]

Glad you liked it! :up: I wish more people would test the process :)

Looks like my upgrade is complete. Took between 2 1/2 and 4 hours to do the copy and upgrade. Very slick and easy.

I almost feel like a cheater doing it this way. I had just installed CentOS before you created the cd.

The cd method was INCREDIBLY easy. The only think easier is getting it preloaded.

The bootup process seemed to take a bit longer than I thought. Once it was done loading then the screen was black for longer than I thought. I even checked the HDMI to make sure I plugged it in.
After that there was also a delay playing shows. Probably just an adjustment period, but I'll keep an eye on it.

At any rate thanks for all the work comer. I'll see what I can do about that beer. ;)

[orangeboy]

Even if the ambient Tivo case temp's don't rise that doesn't mean that the drive temp isn't elevated. Regardless, I always like to have a fan blowing directly on any drives I have in my computer cases. Gives me a little better piece of mind. Looks like this will do the trick: http://www.pchcables.com/3pinfeto23pi3.html

I always thought the idea was to pull the heat away from components, not blow air onto them...

[rdangel]

I'm not accusing anybody of anything intentional. But, I would not recommend sending an email address that isn't a burn account. I thought I'd be emailed back a link to a hosting site, but was instead emailed by the hosting site directly. :eek:

Since I sacrificed a spam free account for the cause, I tried to download the file. 72k download speed on a huge file. No thanks. :(

I took your suggestions and posted the image to my mobileme account. I believe I PM'ed you the link. If anyone else wants to try the image, let me know via PM and I will send you the link.

[cr33p]

I'm not accusing anybody of anything intentional. But, I would not recommend sending an email address that isn't a burn account. I thought I'd be emailed back a link to a hosting site, but was instead emailed by the hosting site directly. :eek:

Since I sacrificed a spam free account for the cause, I tried to download the file. 72k download speed on a huge file. No thanks. :(

I downloaded a copy today, didnt have to volunteer any important info, will test this weekend

[rdangel]

I downloaded a copy today, didnt have to volunteer any important info, will test this weekend

Thanks! Keep me posted!

[Shagger]

I always thought the idea was to pull the heat away from components, not blow air onto them...
In the computers I build I have a fan taking cool outside air and blowing that onto the drives. If you have a equivalent or larger exhaust fan then the excess hot air is pulled out of the case. I usually have 2 - 120mm fans sucking in and 2 blowing out.

It's like I tell the wife, you want to balance out all the blowing and sucking... ;)

[bsmith1051]

It's like I tell the wife, you want to balance out all the blowing and sucking... ;)
That's an interesting... USER ID you've got there!

[jaredmwright]

Used comer's Live Boot CD and upgraded my new Premiere to 1TB with a Seagate drive I already had available. Took about 2 hours to copy and expand. No issues, other than missing some of the extra space that winMFS supersize gave me on my older TiVo Series 3. Looks like about 12GB is available that is not being used compared to my other 1TB HD I upgraded. Maybe in the future I will go up to 2TB once prices drop further.

Thanks again, some money for beer is on its way!

[Bai Shen]

Glad you liked it! :up: I wish more people would test the process :)

Plannin' on it soon as I get a chance to pick one up. This Comcast DVR is horrible!

[aaronwt]

In the computers I build I have a fan taking cool outside air and blowing that onto the drives. If you have a equivalent or larger exhaust fan then the excess hot air is pulled out of the case. I usually have 2 - 120mm fans sucking in and 2 blowing out.

It's like I tell the wife, you want to balance out all the blowing and sucking... ;)

I like the 200mm to 230mm fans in my PC cases now. They are very quiet since they are large and don't need to spin very fast and also move alot of air for cooling.

[Bai Shen]

I like the 200mm to 230mm fans in my PC cases now. They are very quiet since they are large and don't need to spin very fast and also move alot of air for cooling.

What case uses those?

[turbobozz]

What case uses those?

Antec 900 uses a 200mm

[Bai Shen]

Antec 900 uses a 200mm

-looks over at his Antec Nine Hundred- :)

He commented on 230mm fans and implied multiples of the 200-230mm sizes. The Antec case only has one 200mm.

[Shagger]

-looks over at his Antec Nine Hundred- :)

He commented on 230mm fans and implied multiples of the 200-230mm sizes. The Antec case only has one 200mm.
Maybe we start an Antec Nine Hundred thread because I LOVE mine. :) It does need a new X6 Phenom in there however... ;)

[turbobozz]

-looks over at his Antec Nine Hundred- :)

He commented on 230mm fans and implied multiples of the 200-230mm sizes. The Antec case only has one 200mm.

Thermaltake cases maybe?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133074
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133100

[aaronwt]

Thermaltake cases maybe?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133074
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133100

:up:

[Bai Shen]

Thermaltake cases maybe?
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133074
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811133100

Interesting.

[richsadams]

The popular 2TB WD20EARS is on sale at Dell for $94.99 w/free shipping…

http://dell.to/bmW3pA

FWIW the 1TB model is also on sale for $54.99 w/free shipping…

http://dell.to/aHn6sF

[Shagger]

The popular 2TB WD20EARS is on sale at Dell for $94.99 w/free shipping…

http://dell.to/bmW3pA

FWIW the 1TB model is also on sale for $54.99 w/free shipping…

http://dell.to/aHn6sF
2TB model on its way - thanks!

[akaussie]

Hey All - my Premiere is on the way and should be here on Monday. I'm looking for advice as to whether I wait a little while before upgrading the hard drive, or if I just do it right away?
Obviously downside to upgrading straight away will be the loss of the warranty.

Thanks in advance.