Tivo Premiere - First impressions [Text View]

AbMagFab

03-28-2010, 10:43 AM

Got one from BB this morning, initial impressions:

Pros:
1) New UI looks nice, and if it ever speeds up and becomes the primary UI for most screens, it should be a nice, minor upgrade
1a) After using the couple of new UI screens for a couple days, I can definitely see the potential, but it's such a small part of the overall system, and it's still so crazy sluggish.
2) Canadians can see their flag on initial setup
3) Theoretically a new platform for new services (but no new services are available nor have any been announced)

Cons:
1) Can't backup or expand drive- no ETA on an update, as Tivo has changed the file system structure
2) The whole box feels and looks really light-weight and cheesy
3) The power cord is different, so you can't easily swap into a rack
4) On-screen setup is still painfully slow, and still the non-HD UI - spinning ovals and all
5) Only supports one MCARD, not one SCARD
6) Buggy! After initial patch/reboot, I got a black screen with sound, but no menus or picture or anything. Still has hard-reboot hang bug, periodically gets stuck in a black screen with ba-doop sounds, but no picture - sometimes Tivo menu works
7) PAINFULLY SLOW user interface, and only a couple of screens/menus have been converted to the new UI
7a) Looking at a NPL over MRV is even the old UI
7b) Even the little Tivo icon on the program description banner is still a stretched 4x3 version
8) Only a couple screens are new, the rest is identical, and roughly the same speed as the Tivo HD/Series 3.
9) Minor - can only get the new "intro" video if the HD UI is turned off (i.e. use the old UI)
10) No more channel icons on the Now Playing List? Only when you select an item do you see the channel icon - big disappointment for me, especially when looking through wishlist folders (e.g. to know what's an NBC L&O vs. USA vs. TNT)

I'm really unimpressed and disappointed! This is the first Tivo that doesn't feel like a Tivo - buggy, slow, and inconsistent UI. Bummer.

STRONG RECOMMENDATION as of 3/29:
STAY AWAY UNTIL THIS THING IS PATCHED UP! There are no speed improvements anywhere, only a sluggish couple of new screens, and nothing else has changed, except it's way more buggy now.

Some pictures-

Back side - only 4 screws now:
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn16/AbMagFab/Tivo/IMG_0538.jpg

But power cord is different for no reason:
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn16/AbMagFab/Tivo/IMG_0539.jpg

And the whole thing is just cheesy looking and feeling - notice how the plastic middle piece isn't quite flush?
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn16/AbMagFab/Tivo/IMG_0542.jpg

Inside shots - hard drive is easier to get out - no longer that one really hard to get screw:
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn16/AbMagFab/Tivo/IMG_0533.jpg
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn16/AbMagFab/Tivo/IMG_0535.jpg
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn16/AbMagFab/Tivo/IMG_0536.jpg
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn16/AbMagFab/Tivo/IMG_0537.jpg

AbMagFab

03-28-2010, 10:47 AM

Startup screens - doesn't feel like an upgrade yet:
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn16/AbMagFab/Tivo/IMG_0540.jpg

Congrats Canadians:
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn16/AbMagFab/Tivo/IMG_0543.jpg

Some more startup screens - this all looks very familiar, including the oval circles - where's the new HD UI?
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn16/AbMagFab/Tivo/IMG_0545.jpg

HDMI aware, and resolution aware at startup:
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn16/AbMagFab/Tivo/IMG_0546.jpg

Hmmm... I can't use an SCARD I had lying around? MCARDS *only*?
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn16/AbMagFab/Tivo/IMG_0552.jpg

The dreaded "Loading..." page... all new! Oh, wait, it's the same:
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn16/AbMagFab/Tivo/IMG_0554.jpg

Interesting... after the channel setup, it immediately said there was a service update? I guess they know that not a single box will ship with a current OS, ever?
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn16/AbMagFab/Tivo/IMG_0557.jpg

And, the dreaded and painfully painfully painfully slow service update loading screen:
http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn16/AbMagFab/Tivo/IMG_0559.jpg

jmill

03-28-2010, 10:59 AM

can you take a few pics of the inside of the unit?

bkdtv

03-28-2010, 11:07 AM

can you take a few pics of the inside of the unit?Perhaps you missed it, but I did so already (http://www.scribd.com/doc/29053079/TiVo-Premiere-Review) last week.

y2flyy

03-28-2010, 11:12 AM

I was the first to pick one up a BB
I get home and much to my expectation, I'm disappointed

I had NO IDEA this stupid thing needed a freaking cable card. That sucks!
I'm sure my cable company doesn't provide them

I know you're probably saying that I'm the idiot for not knowing.
But I've been reading on this thing and anticipated it for months, no where did I see it say a cablecard is required

Secondly I could fly to the moon faster than this thing takes to load up. Its already been any hour and i got another message "service update this may take up to an hour, possible longer"
LOL it takes 2 hours to setup a freaking DVR!

MOxi why? why didnt I buy you instead!

ldobson

03-28-2010, 11:15 AM

Unseen Llama

03-28-2010, 11:15 AM

I love the message I'm at during setup... "Preparing the service update...This may take up to an hour, possibly longer." :p

Was it ever established if there was an additional update from the recent reviews from Engadget/Gizmodo/etc?

tomm1079

03-28-2010, 11:16 AM

Perhaps you missed it, but I did so already (http://www.scribd.com/doc/29053079/TiVo-Premiere-Review) last week.

ahhh i posted that PDF in another thread when i saw it. Just saying that the person did a good job. glad to know who did it...nice job on it.

andrew12901

03-28-2010, 11:16 AM

Cable cards are required? I only have basic analog cable, will I need one also?

ldobson

03-28-2010, 11:18 AM

Cable cards are required? I only have basic analog cable, will I need one also?

No. The unit will function fine and will record all your analog channels.

y2flyy

03-28-2010, 11:18 AM

You only need a cable card if you want to record Digital channels. The Premiere will do your analog channels just fine.

Analog channels? well why dont I just go back to watching antenna tv?
LOL I have digitial cable with hd channels and all. Why would I want to drop $300 to go back to watching analog?

Am I missing something?

ldobson

03-28-2010, 11:20 AM

Analog channels? well why dont I just go back to watching antenna tv?
LOL I have digitial cable with hd channels and all. Why would I want to drop $300 to go back to watching analog?

Am I missing something?

Well in that case I am surprised that you did not realise that many digital QAM cable channels are encrypted. While the Premiere will replace your cable set top box, its needs a way to decrypt the channels, so just like the cable co box requires a cablecard, which are free from most providers for your first card.

andrew12901

03-28-2010, 11:21 AM

Sweet, thanks for the reply.

bkdtv

03-28-2010, 11:21 AM

Analog channels? well why dont I just go back to watching antenna tv?
LOL I have digitial cable with hd channels and all. Why would I want to drop $300 to go back to watching analog?If you have digital cable, why don't you get a CableCard? Moxi can't view encrypted channels without a CableCard either.

ahhh i posted that PDF in another thread when i saw it. Just saying that the person did a good job. glad to know who did it...nice job on it.If you want to see some 1600x1200 internal images, you can do so right here (http://s299.photobucket.com/albums/mm314/ilovehdtv/Other/Premiere/review/large/).

comma, splice

03-28-2010, 11:23 AM

Analog channels? well why dont I just go back to watching antenna tv?
LOL I have digitial cable with hd channels and all. Why would I want to drop $300 to go back to watching analog?

Am I missing something?

Who's your cable company?

You'll be able to get a CableCARD from any major cable provider.

In fact, there are threads for almost every provider, compiled here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=317989

It's a pain to do at first, but only a one-time pain for most.

BlackBetty

03-28-2010, 11:23 AM

Am I missing something?

I'd say so.

comma, splice

03-28-2010, 11:24 AM

I had NO IDEA this stupid thing needed a freaking cable card. That sucks!
I'm sure my cable company doesn't provide them

I know you're probably saying that I'm the idiot for not knowing.
But I've been reading on this thing and anticipated it for months, no where did I see it say a cablecard is required

It has been said here, hundreds of times.

If you had read TiVo's Web site, as well, you would've seen:

"** CableCARD required for receipt of digital cable service. Additional fees may apply from your cable provider."

y2flyy

03-28-2010, 11:25 AM

I'll probably be the first tivo premiere owner to return this thing
I'm usually not a quick returner (if there is such a thing lol)
But only analog? i had a tivo before I never used a cablecard if I recall correctly I hooked my cable box into the tivo.

This sucks man, I've been waiting for months, woke up early went to best buy.
For some reason I knew it would be something

y2flyy

03-28-2010, 11:26 AM

Who's your cable company?

You'll be able to get a CableCARD from any major cable provider.

In fact, there are threads for almost every provider, compiled here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=317989

It's a pain to do at first, but only a one-time pain for most.

Thanks I'll try to call my cable company tomorrow. But I recall about 6 months ago trying to get one for my HTPC and they didnt even know what they were.

I'll give it a shot though

ldobson

03-28-2010, 11:27 AM

y2flyy

03-28-2010, 11:27 AM

It has been said here, hundreds of times.

If you had read TiVo's Web site, as well, you would've seen:

"** CableCARD required for receipt of digital cable service. Additional fees may apply from your cable provider."

I'm been trolling these forums since the announcement of premiere and been on the tivo site....I never saw that a cablecard is required

y2flyy

03-28-2010, 11:28 AM

Just to clarify, a TV is also required.

lol thats pretty funny

CubsWin

03-28-2010, 11:28 AM

I had NO IDEA this stupid thing needed a freaking cable card. That sucks!
MOxi why? why didnt I buy you instead!
Moxi would require a cable card for digital channels just the same as TiVo.

y2flyy

03-28-2010, 11:29 AM

by the way someone else in this thread didnt know either.

so its not just me

y2flyy

03-28-2010, 11:30 AM

Moxi would require a cable card for digital channels just the same as TiVo.

DAMN!

ldobson

03-28-2010, 11:31 AM

lol thats pretty funny

Yeah, I`m sure theres others who dont realise a cablecard is required. With the set top cable co boxes, the cable cards come preinstalled and fixed to the unit, so theres often no preception of anything but the box.

comma, splice

03-28-2010, 11:33 AM

by the way someone else in this thread didnt know either.

so its not just me

No shame in not knowing. If you're new to TiVo, I could see how you would've missed that.

However, let me reiterate that if you want to enjoy all of the benefits that TiVo provides, it's a necessary evil to spend the hour or so with the installer to get your CableCARD.

If, when you call, they claim not to know what a CableCARD is, ask for a supervisor. They do have them.

y2flyy

03-28-2010, 11:37 AM

No shame in not knowing. If you're new to TiVo, I could see how you would've missed that.

However, let me reiterate that if you want to enjoy all of the benefits that TiVo provides, it's a necessary evil to spend the hour or so with the installer to get your CableCARD.

If, when you call, they claim not to know what a CableCARD is, ask for a supervisor. They do have them.

Thanks everyone I'll give it a good shot with my cable company.

Also the box finally came up.
Seems much faster than Engadget's review video

The top bar doesn't reload on every click, maybe the update addressed that major issue....

comma, splice

03-28-2010, 11:39 AM

Thanks everyone I'll give it a good shot with my cable company.

Also the box finally came up.
Seems much faster than Engadget's review video

The top bar doesn't reload on every click, maybe the update addressed that major issue....

Do you have an antenna you could hook it up to? That would allow you to pick up your local channels in HD to quench your HD thirst until an installer can come out.

jmpage2

03-28-2010, 11:42 AM

Looking for impressions of the unit, not people crying about cable card requirements.

y2flyy

03-28-2010, 11:42 AM

Do you have an antenna you could hook it up to? That would allow you to pick up your local channels in HD to quench your HD thirst until an installer can come out.

No but I should be able to get to my cable provider tomorrow, hopefully

Mike-Mike

03-28-2010, 11:47 AM

Just to clarify, a TV is also required.

I almost spit out my coffee!

Unseen Llama

03-28-2010, 11:54 AM

Okay, stupid question time. Tivo went through all the updates, yet it's still on the same old interface. Never had the option to choose the new HD interface. Is that still only available for select reviewers?

innocentfreak

03-28-2010, 11:57 AM

No it is only an option if you are using a HD set though. Are you on a HD set?

Unseen Llama

03-28-2010, 12:00 PM

No it is only an option if you are using a HD set though. Are you on a HD set?

Yes. Pansonic HDTV with 720p resolution. Weird. Hooked up through an HDMI cable.

whattheheck

03-28-2010, 12:01 PM

patatrox

03-28-2010, 12:03 PM

Unseen Llama

03-28-2010, 12:06 PM

TiVo Central --> Messages & Settings --> Restart or Reset System --> Choose TiVo Menus

That's not an option. I forced a connection again to Tivo's server. It's loading info again and is doing it very veeerrry slowly. Once that's done, I'll restart the Premier and see if anything has changed.

bkdtv

03-28-2010, 12:07 PM

The new HD interface should be the default once you've actually got the appropriate software.

TiVo's original plan was to roll out the HD interface in early April. It's not clear whether that interface is available to customers today.

That's not an option. I forced a connection again to Tivo's server. It's loading info again and is doing it very veeerrry slowly. Once that's done, I'll restart the Premier and see if anything has changed.What software version do you have?

If you still have the original December build of the 14.0 or 14.1 software, the "loading..." screen could take 4-6 hours.

When the software with the HD UI is available, it is supposed to download as part of initial guided setup. It doesn't sound like that happened for you, so I'm curious whether a subsequent connection will grab that software.

Unseen Llama

03-28-2010, 12:09 PM

The new HD interface should be the default once you've actually got the appropriate software.

TiVo's original plan was to roll out the HD interface in early April. It's not clear whether that interface is available to customers today.

For any new Premiere owner that completed guided setup...what software version do you have?

14.1-01-3-746

whattheheck

03-28-2010, 12:09 PM

Looking for impressions of the unit, not people crying about cable card requirements.

+1

Unseen Llama

03-28-2010, 12:13 PM

+1

Well...the old UI is snappier... :cool:

jmpage2

03-28-2010, 12:14 PM

Well...the old UI is snappier... :cool:

Okay, thanks. More interested in the new UI though.

bkdtv

03-28-2010, 12:16 PM

Be aware the TiVo Premiere still has to spend a day or so indexing the guide data. It should be noticeably faster in another 24-36 hours.

Jmpage -- I am happy to answer any questions you've got about the new interface, or any questions you want answered in a new FAQ.

brasscat

03-28-2010, 12:17 PM

I believe it's federal law requiring cable companies to furnish cable cards to their customers. So if you're dealing with a "cable company" they should have them. I first got a cable card in 2007 from my cable company, which at the time is Time Warner.

Just to review for those new to TiVo:

1. TiVo can accept standard definition analog from antenna and cable, and HD picture over antenna (all without a cable card).
2. If you want HD cable (or premium channels) you need a cable card.
3. Cable card technology isn't perfect technology: It doesn't allow you to access a cable provider's on demand or pay-per-view content.
4. For some reason, setting up a TiVo for the first time always takes hours and hours. This is basically a one time thing. System updates down the road happen automatically and aren't as painful.

My Wondering: I remember in some video I watched someone stating the new menu was 1080p. I wonder if that means your out of luck if your set is running 720?

My new TiVo ships Monday, so I'll likely get it Tuesday or Wednesday (I'm 30 minutes from where they ship the things). But I have to say reading initial reviews I'm sort of not all that excited; Slow menus, requiring an immediate software update, Flash-based menu veneer, cheap feeling remote and looking hardware, no integrated wifi on a device that pretty much requires it, the list goes on and on. Still, with all that being said, it's better than the DVRs provided by the cable company, but still, we've waited a long time for the next generation TiVo, and it really doesn't look like the TiVo Premiere is going to initially deliver much more than an incremental upgrade to 1080p.

Unseen Llama

03-28-2010, 12:18 PM

Okay, thanks. More interested in the new UI though. I was kidding. Still trying to get the HDUI to kick in...

orangeboy

03-28-2010, 12:19 PM

The new HD interface should be the default once you've actually got the appropriate software.

TiVo's original plan was to roll out the HD interface in early April. It's not clear whether that interface is available to customers today.

According to TiVoPony (http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7846920#post7846920), they flipped the switch on Friday:

...It launched last night - we threw the big switch and the new interface is now available on those shiny new TiVo Premiere DVRs. It's the first time since that original Series1 that we've redone the hardware and the software simultaneously. And there are an amazing number of changes to the service infrastructure as well (although most of that isn't visible to you all). A complete reboot of our product, across all fronts. Series4 is a new start...

ldobson

03-28-2010, 12:20 PM

Hmm Interesting. Will the Premiere downscale to 720p? I thought it was designed only for 1080p, which most every TV worth having is now.

bkdtv

03-28-2010, 12:24 PM

Hmm Interesting. Will the Premiere downscale to 720p?Yes, it will.

The TiVo doesn't upscale to 1080p. It will only upscale to a maximum of 1080i. It will output 1080p24 content (like PC videos, future VOD) as is.

It's worth noting that the new HD UI eliminates the 720p UI resync seen on the TivoHD and Series3. If you have native output of 720p and 1080i resolutions enabled, and you are on a 720p channel, the HD UI comes up in 720p; if you are on a 1080i channel, the HD UI comes up in 1080i. There are no unnecessary resolution resyncs.

This improvement does not extend to the classic interface.

Thuye

03-28-2010, 12:29 PM

I bought a lamp for the bedroom and it didn’t say anywhere on the box or in the instructions that electricity AND a light bulb were required.....(Sorry, just couldn’t pass it up)

whattheheck

03-28-2010, 12:32 PM

I bought a lamp for the bedroom and it didn’t say anywhere on the box or in the instructions that electricity AND a light bulb were required.....(Sorry, just couldn’t pass it up)

You have no idea how mad I was when I found out I had to put gas in my new car.

I mean, it cost $45,000...:eek:

ldobson

03-28-2010, 12:36 PM

Can anyone confirm or deny whether the multi user program tagging seen on some of the reviews exists on the premiere or if this was simply a mock up?

i.e specific programming can be grouped or tagged with specific names "Bill", "Bob", "Jack" and "Jill"?

Mike-Mike

03-28-2010, 12:37 PM

the tv joke was funny, now you all are beating a dead horse....

innocentfreak

03-28-2010, 12:37 PM

I believe this was confirmed to be a mock-up. Though it might be something we see later.

bkdtv

03-28-2010, 12:40 PM

Can anyone confirm or deny whether the multi user program tagging seen on some of the reviews exists on the premiere or if this was simply a mock up?It does not exist on the Premiere at this time.

Btw, I just copied my "benchmark" comparisons to this thread (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7805472#post7805472).

bkdtv

03-28-2010, 12:44 PM

Tip for new Premiere owners -- pressing the UP button will show you the current output resolution.

Richard Cranium

03-28-2010, 12:49 PM

So, bottom line, is it really as slow as the pro's made it out to be? I've got an XL and a regular on order from TiVo.com to replace my Hughes DirecTivo and a DirecTV HD 21?

Did I make the right choice?

Is there a way to "sync" the boxes so that if I want to record 3 shows at once I can have access to the Idle tuners on another box?

Unseen Llama

03-28-2010, 12:54 PM

According to TiVoPony (http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7846920#post7846920), they flipped the switch on Friday:

I'm repeating Guided Setup again. The forced connection to Tivo loaded something, just don't know what.

In the Guided Setup, is there a screen to choose the new HDUI?

bkdtv

03-28-2010, 01:04 PM

In the Guided Setup, is there a screen to choose the new HDUI?No.

So, bottom line, is it really as slow as the pro's made it out to be? I've got an XL and a regular on order from TiVo.com to replace my Hughes DirecTivo and a DirecTV HD 21?The HD UI is as slow as the reviews indicate. Some parts aren't too bad. The real problem is that it is slow in all the wrong places. For example, paging through My Shows (NPL) is unbearably slow. I'm told there should be an update within a few weeks to address that.

As others have suggested, TiVo really needs to implement some form caching for programs on the NPL and the To Do List. TiVo also needs to change the way it refreshes/reloads the Discovery Bar (bar at top of screen).

You can still use classic, and that is faster than ever.

Is there a way to "sync" the boxes so that if I want to record 3 shows at once I can have access to the Idle tuners on another box?No. I wouldn't count on seeing that until TiVo implements multi-room streaming (rather than multi-room transfers).

Unseen Llama

03-28-2010, 01:05 PM

No.

Guess it's just a waiting game then until it's enabled on my box. That kind of sucks.

Richard Cranium

03-28-2010, 01:10 PM

No.

The HD UI is as slow as the reviews indicate. Some parts aren't too bad. The problem is that it is slow in all the wrong places. For example, paging through My Shows (NPL) is unbearably slow. I'm told there should be an update within a few weeks to address that.

You can still use classic, and that is faster than ever.

Since I'm using "classic" now I guess I can live without the HD interface (for now) Are all the "search features" still available in classic mode? Or is it more like the S3/HD's interface where you have to go to 3 different screens to search for youtube/netflix/TV etc.?

No. I wouldn't count on seeing that until TiVo implements multi-room streaming (rather than multi-room transfers).

Bummer. At least according to your benchmark tests the transfers aren't painfully slow. Still hope I made the right choice. Thanks for the help!.

Oh, I didn't notice.... Are your transfer benchmarks using wired or wireless connections? If wireless was it Wireless G or N?

Thanks again.

innocentfreak

03-28-2010, 01:13 PM

No.

I thought there was based off the screen Zatz posted.

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/tivo-premiere-menu-choice.jpg

It sounded like that popped up during his guided setup.

Richard Cranium

03-28-2010, 01:15 PM

I thought there was based off the screen Zatz posted.

http://www.zatznotfunny.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/tivo-premiere-menu-choice.jpg

It sounded like that popped up during his guided setup.

I believe the "review" units have different software than the general publics?

bkdtv

03-28-2010, 01:27 PM

Dave's unit was equipped with a newer software than mine. I didn't have that option as part of guided setup.

davezatz

03-28-2010, 01:48 PM

Dave's unit was equipped with a newer software than mine. I didn't have that option as part of guided setup.

The HDUI was up by default on my box, I assume it decided on its own when I confirmed a HD output resolution. Nothing during setup - the screengrab I posted was a menu item. I assume my box was flagged for the HDUI ahead of time, and maybe the software was updated prior to shipping even. From PR, I thought the plan was that towards mid-April customers would get the HDUI. But Pony's Bluemoon post implies it'll be ready at launch. Hm.

bkdtv

03-28-2010, 01:59 PM

Since I'm using "classic" now I guess I can live without the HD interface (for now) Are all the "search features" still available in classic mode? Or is it more like the S3/HD's interface where you have to go to 3 different screens to search for youtube/netflix/TV etc.?You don't get the new search features in classic mode.

Oh, I didn't notice.... Are your transfer benchmarks using wired or wireless connections? If wireless was it Wireless G or N?I am using MoCA (networking over coax). It's essentially 100Mbps wired networking over coax.

You won't see throughput anywhere close to my results with the TiVo 802.11g wireless adapter. That adapter maxes at out at 16-18Mbps, IIRC, and that assumes you've got an excellent signal from your router.

bkdtv

03-28-2010, 02:04 PM

For whatever reason, the HD UI is not yet available for everyone. Member Unseen Llama and several others report having the the current HD UI menu version, but "HDUI Available" is set to disabled.

Richard Cranium

03-28-2010, 02:12 PM

You don't get the new search features in classic mode.

I am using MoCA (networking over coax). It's essentially 100Mbps wired networking over coax.

You won't see throughput anywhere close to my results with the TiVo 802.11g wireless adapter. That adapter maxes at out at 16-18Mbps, IIRC, and that assumes you've got an excellent signal from your router.

Gotta admit, this is the first I've heard of "MoCA". Since my entire house is wired with Coax I guess I'll do some research on MoCA. Glad I found this board, you guys really seem to know your sh1t!

Thanks again. (back on subject thread)

tomm1079

03-28-2010, 02:37 PM

Gotta admit, this is the first I've heard of "MoCA". Since my entire house is wired with Coax I guess I'll do some research on MoCA. Glad I found this board, you guys really seem to know your sh1t!

Thanks again. (back on subject thread)

same here!

I am using wireless N but after reading about this thing it seems great.....

tomm1079

03-28-2010, 02:37 PM

RojCowles

03-28-2010, 03:07 PM

No.
<snip>
No. I wouldn't count on seeing that until TiVo implements multi-room streaming (rather than multi-room transfers).

Until ?

Not that I've been exhaustively trawling for info, just obsessively clicking Reload on the Tivo.com Order History page ... ahem ... , but I don't recall Tivo mentioning future plans to enable streaming as opposed to transfers.

Having said that it might not be too much of a stretch given the available network throughput from the Premiere to write a Boxee box, Popbox or similar media extender App that would use the Premiere as just another video source and stream content from the Premiere to the extender box, assuming that encryption, content security and appropriate licensing terms were worked out of course.

--
Roj

bkdtv

03-28-2010, 03:17 PM

Not that I've been exhaustively trawling for info, just obsessively clicking Reload on the Tivo.com Order History page ... ahem ... , but I don't recall Tivo mentioning future plans to enable streaming as opposed to transfers.I was responding to a question about cooperative scheduling. Cooperative scheduling isn't useful if you can't access all recordings on every box, and unless you are a FiOS customer, you can't do that without streaming. Hence, streaming is a prerequisite for that feature.

TiVo hasn't said anything publicly about streaming. That said, we know they plan to release a DirecTiVo, and DirecTV offers DTCP-IP streaming and DLNA on all of its HD STB and DVR boxes. A DirecTiVo without that functionality would be DOA.

nrc

03-28-2010, 03:57 PM

I was responding to a question about cooperative scheduling. Cooperative scheduling isn't useful if you can't access all recordings on every box, and unless you are a FiOS customer, you can't do that without streaming. Hence, streaming is a perequisite for that feature.

Or more correctly, a customer of a provider who doesn't mark their content "copy once.".

greensky

03-28-2010, 04:00 PM

service update this may take up to an hour, possible longer

Does the service update fix anything they mentioned in the Engadget or Gizmodo reviews? I really want a premier, but I want to make sure they actually enable the second core and speed up the UI a bit before I ugprade.

AbMagFab

03-28-2010, 05:12 PM

Added some photos in the first couple of posts.

aaronwt

03-28-2010, 05:22 PM

Just to clarify, a TV is also required.

:eek::D:D

DaveWhittle

03-28-2010, 05:28 PM

Added some photos in the first couple of posts.

Thanks for those, interesting!

Question about the audio setup - I'm going to use HDMI for video and optical for audio. Is there an option for this, or is it always sending audio through optical and HDMI if detected? :confused:

steve614

03-28-2010, 05:36 PM

Added some photos in the first couple of posts.

How do you feel about voiding your warranty on a public forum? ;)

AbMagFab

03-28-2010, 05:40 PM

How do you feel about voiding your warranty on a public forum? ;)

One of my favorite T-Shirts:
http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts-apparel/unisex/generic/8f52/
http://www.thinkgeek.com/images/products/zoom/i_void_warranties.jpg

macgyver

03-28-2010, 05:42 PM

Switching from DirecTV (although my new Comcast service and the two Premiere boxes are all returnable in the next 30 days). My premieres will arrive a day before the Comcast guy gets here to set up my cable.

How much of the initial setup can I go through without having the cablecards or service? Can I get them to load the software update from TiVo, or do I have to wait until the service is running and then start everything?

DaveWhittle

03-28-2010, 05:45 PM

How much of the initial setup can I go through without having the cablecards or service? Can I get them to load the software update from TiVo, or do I have to wait until the service is running and then start everything?

It looks like you can do everything but the cablecard setup and save that for later:

http://i300.photobucket.com/albums/nn16/AbMagFab/Tivo/IMG_0552.jpg

lessd

03-28-2010, 05:45 PM

How do you feel about voiding your warranty on a public forum? ;)

You think TiVo would know the TSN and block it from warranty repair ? TiVo so far has not been that fussy, if you upgrade your drive and have a non drive problem you can put back the original and TiVo gives you no problem (unless you tell the CSR what you just did).
The bigger problem is how do you go to TiVo after 3 years for a paid replacement (if your TiVo goes south) as TiVo does not want to move the lifetime service after 3 years, it one thing to have to pay $149 for a replacement TiVo but to have to re-pay for Lifetime Service, that would be a bummer.

aaronwt

03-28-2010, 05:49 PM

You think TiVo would know the TSN and block it from warranty repair ? TiVo so far has not been that fussy, if you upgrade your drive and have a non drive problem you can put back the original and TiVo gives you no problem (unless you tell the CSR what you just did).
The bigger problem is how do you go to TiVo after 3 years for a paid replacement (if your TiVo goes south) as TiVo does not want to move the lifetime service after 3 years, it one thing to have to pay $149 for a replacement TiVo but to have to re-pay for Lifetime Service, that would be a bummer.

That was not the case with me in 2007 with my TiVoHD. The CSR told me they could tell that I had upgraded the drive at some point, even though I had put the original back in. So they would not troubleshoot the problem at the time. They said I would have to pay for a refurbished unit even though that TiVoHD was a week old. So I took it back to CC and exchanged it so TiVo would troubleshoot the ridiculous issue they were having with stereo from analog channels.

lessd

03-28-2010, 05:51 PM

That was not the case with me in 2007 with my TiVoHD. The CSR told me they could tell that I had upgraded the drive at some point, even though I had put the original back in. So they would not troubleshoot the problem at the time. They said I would have to pay for a refurbished unit even though that TiVoHD was a week old. So I took it back to CC and exchanged it so TiVo would troubleshoot the ridiculous issue they were having with stereo from analog channels.

Did you make a few connections for a few days before calling ? and TiVo was still willing to replace your TiVo.

davezatz

03-28-2010, 05:53 PM

You think TiVo would know the TSN and block it from warranty repair ?

Maybe, but there's another concern. Hopefully, we're all nice people on the forum. But the Internet is kinda like real life - all sorts of folks. (Many who read the forum don't even post.) In his profile, he lists a blog. Check the registration info and you have his name. Then call TiVo with that and his TSN to cancel service? So, yeah, I'd remove the pic...

Incidentally, this kinda lines up with I've never used any of the services from third parties (other than Yahoo) that allow TiVo scheduling. Same username and password needed to access your online account. TiVo should really go with oAuth or two separate logins. One for managing the TiVo, one for our actual service/billing.

EDIT: I flagged his post for the moderators to take a look and consider removing that pic in case he's out for the evening.

aaronwt

03-28-2010, 05:57 PM

Did you make a few connections for a few days before calling ? and TiVo was still willing to replace your TiVo.

They would replace the barnd new, properly functioning unit for a fee. The unit was connected for a week before the call.

The issue was a problem with all the boxes with stereo from analog channels. I assume they fixed it at some point. I got FiOS a month later so I didn't mess with it any more. I did go through another box after the first replacement just to make sure it wasn't the hardware.

With the Premiers I don't have plans on opening them up since I purchased the 3 year warranty from TiVo on all the boxes.

jfh3

03-28-2010, 06:55 PM

Not sure why others don't have the HDUI - I bought a Premiere (not XL) from BestBuy this morning and have it.

Do not remember selecting anything during setup for it.

AbMagFab

03-28-2010, 06:59 PM

Unseen Llama

03-28-2010, 07:00 PM

Not sure why others don't have the HDUI - I bought a Premiere (not XL) from BestBuy this morning and have it.

Do not remember selecting anything during setup for it.

I went through Guided Setup for OTA connection. I do have a feed from Comcast, maybe I'll try to run through the cable setup instead and see if that triggers anything.

innocentfreak

03-28-2010, 07:01 PM

Any bugs you find, you may want to contribute to this thread (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=445704).

vansmack

03-28-2010, 07:08 PM

How long should I expect to be on the "Welcome! Starting up...." screen?

I'm going on 30 minutes with nothing other than that.

jmpage2

03-28-2010, 07:08 PM

Updated now that I've played with it for about 30 minutes. Strongly recommend people stay away from this thing. It's really buggy, the new UI is painfully slow, and the old UI is about the same.

There is absolutely no reason to get this, and there are a couple reasons not to get it. This is a no-brainer - stay away for now.

Once I get my MCARD tomorrow (hopefully), I'll post more results in case that is the cause of bugginess (i.e. no CC=buggy Tivo 4).

That's what I was afraid of and bkdtv has effectively confirmed this as well.

I'm not in a hurry, I have two TiVo HD boxes. I will wait for a while and see how rapidly TiVo can develop this product before committing my dollars to it.

Thanks for the responses.

gothaggis

03-28-2010, 07:08 PM

I can't believe how slow the menus are. Not sure what they were thinking when releasing this, since it clearly isn't ready for prime time yet.

matguy

03-28-2010, 07:16 PM

This may well suck for me when ours shows up (ordered yesterday from tivo.com.) Not that I'll freak out about the bugs, my wife on the other hand, well I'll posibly be paying for it for a while. I mean, it'll take a while for Comcast to get an M-card for us, so that might stall it long enough for some updates, but ugh... [Fist Shake]

trip1eX

03-28-2010, 07:30 PM

So do the new search features and categorization work under the old UI?

orangeboy

03-28-2010, 07:35 PM

gweempose

03-28-2010, 07:39 PM

To keep the WAF, maybe just leave it in SD mode?My thoughts exactly, at least until the new interface is ready for prime time.

AbMagFab

03-28-2010, 07:46 PM

How long should I expect to be on the "Welcome! Starting up...." screen?

I'm going on 30 minutes with nothing other than that.

That's a bug (see my first post). You'll need to hard boot - unplug and replug. It should go to the second screen this time in about 1-2 minutes.

jfh3

03-28-2010, 07:49 PM

That's a bug (see my first post). You'll need to hard boot - unplug and replug. It should go to the second screen this time in about 1-2 minutes.

Or just hit the Tivo button.

Noogie

03-28-2010, 07:54 PM

I have been waiting patiently for the release and was quite dissapointed this week regarding the interface sluggishness when the reviews came out. There simply is no excuse to release a product with such a sluggish interface in this day and age. I'm not about to drop nearly $1700 on two Premiere XL's with lifetime service on the promise of "it will get fixed soon."

I will just continue to wait until they fix the interface speed issue. My two Cox HD DVRs that I hate will have to do for now.

Edit: I see from the other thread regarding the HD UI:

"If you activate your TiVo® Premiere before early April, you will only experience our standard-definition user interface. The new HD user interface will download through a software update to your Premiere in early April."

This gives me some hope that they'll have a version of the HD UI that caches data and isn't painfully slow soon enough. Waiting still sucks. :(

AbMagFab

03-28-2010, 08:09 PM

Or just hit the Tivo button.

Not when it's on the startup screen. That's a boot issue.

jfh3

03-28-2010, 08:15 PM

Not when it's on the startup screen. That's a boot issue.

Sorry - you are correct. I was thinking after the final screen, not at the "Welcome" screen.

greensky

03-28-2010, 08:27 PM

This gives me some hope that they'll have a version of the HD UI that caches data and isn't painfully slow soon enough. Waiting still sucks.

Agreed. I'm mostly worried about the part where they mention stability issues with both cores enabled. I don't want to buy a Premier now on the promise they'll fix everything only to have them release a hardware fix in 6 months.

aaronwt

03-28-2010, 10:34 PM

Stabilioty issues should just be problems with the code. They need to optimize it for two cores. I'm still looking forward to my eight units. The sooner I can sell my old units the better.

vansmack

03-28-2010, 10:34 PM

Not when it's on the startup screen. That's a boot issue.

Yes it is, and it required a return of the device (according to TiVo customer support, after repeated hard reboots).

Fortunately for me, my Best Buy had one Premiere left.

bkdtv

03-28-2010, 10:39 PM

the new UI is painfully slow, and the old UI is about the same.[/B]You should find the classic UI more responsive after indexing is complete.

AbMagFab

03-28-2010, 10:40 PM

Yes it is, and it required a return of the device (according to TiVo customer support).

Fortunately for me, my Best Buy had one Premiere left.

It's most likely the old soft-boot issue again with the EVVS drives. Doesn't really need a return though.

stevep927

03-28-2010, 10:41 PM

Didn't Tivo announce that the new software won't be released for a week or so which perhaps would explain the lack of performance. By the way I knew the Tivo needed electricity so I have erected a 45 foot tower and am hoisting the windmill tomorrow with the anticipated arrival of my Tivo's this week. I have heard thru the grapevine (hint AG) that Tivo's perform much faster when you use GREEN energy. The green means it costs more. If I don't have any wind I also have installed solar panels on the roof for backup. If it's not sunny or windy I guess I will listen to the radio.

bkdtv

03-28-2010, 11:05 PM

For those that didn't bother to read the FAQ stickied at the top of the forum, some changes for users of both the "classic" and HD UIs:

30 second scan

On past TiVos, the ADVANCE (-->|) button toggled between the beginning and end of the program by default. If the user wanted that button to perform 30 second skip—a popular feature to skip commercials—they had to enter a special remote sequence: SELECT-PLAY-SELECT-3-0-SELECT.

The TiVo Premiere ships with a new 30 second “scan” function enabled by default on the ADVANCE (-->|) button. This feature is very similar to the 30 second "slip" on DirecTV's latest DVRs. It doesn't skip 30 seconds; instead, it fast forwards through a 30 second interval in one second (i.e. 30x speed). Pressing ADVANCE repeatedly queues added time. If you hit the ADVANCE button four times in a row, the DVR fast forwards through 120 seconds of programming (or commercials) in four seconds.

The traditional 30 second instant skip function is still available, and enabled with the same remote sequence. Simply enter SELECT-PLAY-SELECT-3-0-SELECT while viewing a recorded program.

Trick play enhancements: Jump to beginning/end and skip-to-tick on live TV

With the Premiere, pressing and holding the REPLAY button for one second jumps to the beginning of the recording or the beginning of the live TV buffer. Pressing and holding the ADVANCE button for one second jumps to the end of the recording or the end of the live TV buffer (i.e. live TV).

Users can also jump backward in 15 minute increments on both live TV and recordings by pressing the REPLAY button while rewinding. Pressing ADVANCE while fast forwarding will jump forward in 15 minute increments. This works on both recordings and live TV.

Output modes, auto-detection of supported formats, 1080p24

With the Premiere, TiVo did away with its native, hybrid, and fixed output modes in favor of a more elegant implementation. The Premiere lists each output format – 1080p24, 1080i, 720p, 480p, and 480i—and asks the user to place a checkmark next to those they want to output natively without processing. If the user only checks 1080i, then all other formats are converted to 1080i. If the user checks 480i and 720p, then 480i channels are output as 480i, while all other formats are converted to 720p. If the user checks 720p and 1080i, then 720p and 1080i content is output natively, while other formats are converted to 1080i.

For those that don’t know what their TV can do, the TiVo Premiere adds an auto-detect feature to determine all supported output modes. The user can then customize as desired.

Increased menu timeout

Under previous versions of the TiVo software, the DVR would revert to live TV after five minutes of user inactivity on any menu. With the Premiere, TiVo increased that timeout to 15 minutes. This change will also apply to the HDUI when it is released.

Increase in default “keep until” period for new recordings

The TiVo Premiere protects all new recordings for three days, up from two days (48 hours) under previous versions of the TiVo software.

Trickplay behavior with 30sec skip enabled is erratic. When initially enabled with the SELECT-PLAY-SELECT-3-0-SELECT code, 30sec skip replaces 30sec scan and you maintain access to the other trickplay enhancements, including the ability to press-and-hold REPLAY and SKIP to jump to the beginning and end of recordings.

Once you reboot the TiVo, you retain 30sec skip but lose access to the new trickplay functions, and you're stuck with same behavior on the TiVoHD/Series3. To restore the press-and-hold functions, you have to re-enable 30-second scan through the Settings -> Remote, CableCard, & Devices -> Remote Setup, and then re-enable 30-second skip.

It is not clear whether this is a bug, or whether TiVo simply does not want users of 30sec skip to have access to the new and improved trickplay functions. If the latter, that would be unfortunate.

slowbiscuit

03-29-2010, 07:03 AM

Under previous versions of the TiVo software, the DVR would revert to live TV after five minutes of user inactivity on any menu. With the Premiere, TiVo increased that timeout to 15 minutes. This change will also apply to the HDUI when it is released.

I still don't understand why they don't have a simple screensaver option, and why this timeout is not configurable. They could even pitch ads using it, just like Replays used to do.

aaronwt

03-29-2010, 07:08 AM

I hate screen savers in devices. The first thing I do is turn them off. I'm not worried about burnin with my DLP and LCD sets.

For me it really doesn't matter what the time is. It could be 5 or 50 minutes. if I'm not in front of it I'm not using the TiVo.

AbMagFab

03-29-2010, 07:19 AM

I hate screen savers in devices. The first thing I do is turn them off. I'm not worried about burnin with my DLP and LCD sets.

Short of CRTs and some old plasmas, burn-in has been a non-issue for any TV for years.

mamosley

03-29-2010, 08:37 AM

Ok, got my premiere connected yesterday. After the innitial set up the first thing I look for was the hd u.i. it was not enabled on my box. I had it connect again, It took almost 3 hours to apply the downloads from the first connection. My guess it only downloaded guide data because the verision number did not change and I did not get the option to turn on the hd u.i. Running it on the standard u.i. the interface absolutely flies compared to my tivo hds. I didnt have any of the set up issues that many appear to be having. So I'll count my self fortunate so far to have no disaapointments. We'll see if that changes when I get a chance to use the hd u.i.

grapeape

03-29-2010, 08:54 AM

comma, splice

03-29-2010, 09:03 AM

You sure AbMagFab wasn't first. :-)

He probably just means his local Best Buy. Not all Best Buys nationwide.

aaronwt

03-29-2010, 09:06 AM

For those that didn't bother to read the FAQ stickied at the top of the forum, some changes for users of both the "classic" and HD UIs:

Trickplay behavior with 30sec skip enabled is erratic. When initially enabled with the SELECT-PLAY-SELECT-3-0-SELECT code, 30sec skip replaces 30sec scan and you maintain access to the other trickplay enhancements, including the ability to press-and-hold REPLAY and SKIP to jump to the beginning and end of recordings.

Once you reboot the TiVo, you retain 30sec skip but lose access to the new trickplay functions, and you're stuck with same behavior on the TiVoHD/Series3. To restore the press-and-hold functions, you have to re-enable 30-second scan through the Settings -> Remote, CableCard, & Devices -> Remote Setup, and then re-enable 30-second skip.

It is not clear whether this is a bug, or whether TiVo simply does not want users of 30sec skip to have access to the new and improved trickplay functions. If the latter, that would be unfortunate.

How much longer does the 30 sec. scan take than the 30 sec. skip?

comma, splice

03-29-2010, 09:24 AM

It looks like nobody is "supposed" to have the HD user interface yet, according to a representative at TiVo.

Here's the conversation:

[me]: I've been reading on the TiVo Community message boards that people who got theirs yesterday at Best Buy don't have the HD user interface.
[me]: Do you know if the ones shipping from TiVo will have the new interface?
Chad: Nobody has the HDUI until we officially start shipping our units.
Chad: The HDUI is provided as a software update, which I assume is being released today.
[me]: Oh, OK. Thank you!

So could that mean that those who are seeing the HD user interface got it mistakenly?

b_scott

03-29-2010, 10:38 AM

I'm been trolling these forums since the announcement of premiere and been on the tivo site....I never saw that a cablecard is required

you've been a member on these forums since 2006 and didn't know any HD Tivo requires cablecards. ok.

aaronwt

03-29-2010, 10:41 AM

I'm been trolling these forums since the announcement of premiere and been on the tivo site....I never saw that a cablecard is required

It isn't. I have five boxes receiving OTA content and they are working just fine without any cable cards. Although the four connected to FiOS have cable cards.

AbMagFab

03-29-2010, 10:54 AM

It isn't. I have five boxes receiving OTA content and they are working just fine without any cable cards. Although the four connected to FiOS have cable cards.

Did you get a special MSD deal, or are you paying more for box #7?

aaronwt

03-29-2010, 12:19 PM

Did you get a special MSD deal, or are you paying more for box #7?

six are lifetime(four were converted to lifetime after the $6.95 a month cost) and three are still on the $6.95 a month plan which two of my Premieres will take over.

So even with six on lifetime, if I go to the change subscription for the monthly boxes it still shows up as $299 for Lifetime service.

AbMagFab

03-29-2010, 03:01 PM

BlackBetty

03-29-2010, 03:05 PM

six are lifetime(four were converted to lifetime after the $6.95 a month cost) and three are still on the $6.95 a month plan which two of my Premieres will take over.

So even with six on lifetime, if I go to the change subscription for the monthly boxes it still shows up as $299 for Lifetime service.

Can you please explain to me why on earth you need 8 TiVo boxes?

jmpage2

03-29-2010, 03:06 PM

Well, FIOS came, and I got my MCARD.

BUT - only one tuner works. The other tuner won't tune anything in.

Anyone experience this before? I didn't think this was possible. I went through a full guided setup again, made no difference.

It sounds an awful lot like you got an S-Card.

AbMagFab

03-29-2010, 03:08 PM

It sounds an awful lot like you got an S-Card.

A) The Premiere only supports MCARDS
B) It clearly says MCARD when inserted

Anyone seen this behavior before?

BlackBetty

03-29-2010, 03:10 PM

A) The Premiere only supports MCARDS
B) It clearly says MCARD when inserted

Anyone seen this behavior before?

sounds like you got a faulty MCard. Why didn't you test it out when the FIOS guy was there?

AbMagFab

03-29-2010, 03:17 PM

sounds like you got a faulty MCard. Why didn't you test it out when the FIOS guy was there?

I did, but I wasn't going to make him wait the 60+ minutes to go through another guided setup, especially when one tuner was working fine.

It's an MCARD, so one tuner = multiple tuners.

I'm thinking this is a faulty Tivo box actually. I've got another MCARD in another Tivo HD, and I'll test this one in a Tivo HD to confirm.

Have you actually seen a faulty MCARD exhibit this behavior, or are you just making an assumption?

AbMagFab

03-29-2010, 03:41 PM

comma, splice

03-29-2010, 03:45 PM

Well, popped the MCARD into the Tivo HD that this Premiere was sitting next to, and it worked perfectly.

So, on top of everything else, this Premiere has only one working tuner in it. Nice. That confirms the overall cheap feel to this thing.

I think I'm just going to return this thing and wait until it's actually a viable product. Maybe I should take my own advice?

Sorry for your bad experience. I'm sure that because the unit you got only had working tuner, everyone else's will too.

Richard Cranium

03-29-2010, 03:58 PM

Well, popped the MCARD into the Tivo HD that this Premiere was sitting next to, and it worked perfectly.

So, on top of everything else, this Premiere has only one working tuner in it. Nice. That confirms the overall cheap feel to this thing.

I think I'm just going to return this thing and wait until it's actually a viable product. Maybe I should take my own advice?

I don't want to start a flame war, but after reading your last couple of posts I just want to point out that you've been looking for something to complain about so you can return it.

I'm Glad you finally found it. :)

BlackBetty

03-29-2010, 04:00 PM

I don't want to start a flame war, but after reading your last couple of posts I just want to point out that you've been looking for something to complain about so you can return it.

I'm Glad you finally found it. :)

+1. I agree 100%. He starts off his original (has since been edited) first post by describing the product as cheesy twice. This guy was just looking for any reason at all to return it. I hope TiVo figures out he opened up the box and denies his return. lol

bkdtv

03-29-2010, 04:00 PM

Well, popped the MCARD into the Tivo HD that this Premiere was sitting next to, and it worked perfectly.

So, on top of everything else, this Premiere has only one working tuner in it. Nice. That confirms the overall cheap feel to this thing.

I think I'm just going to return this thing and wait until it's actually a viable product. Maybe I should take my own advice?Did you try re-running guided setup with the M-CARD installed?

ldobson

03-29-2010, 04:04 PM

Well, popped the MCARD into the Tivo HD that this Premiere was sitting next to, and it worked perfectly.

So, on top of everything else, this Premiere has only one working tuner in it. Nice. That confirms the overall cheap feel to this thing.

I think I'm just going to return this thing and wait until it's actually a viable product. Maybe I should take my own advice?

No really you only need the one, you wont have time to watch programming from both tuners as you have to spend every other minute complaining here!

comma, splice

03-29-2010, 04:05 PM

I don't want to start a flame war, but after reading your last couple of posts I just want to point out that you've been looking for something to complain about so you can return it.

I'm Glad you finally found it. :)

Good point. Just consider that he started his initial post with "Cons" first, and then "Pros."

It's fine for your cons to outnumber your pros, but ordering them like that is something only a pessimist would do!

emerz

03-29-2010, 04:11 PM

I hope TiVo figures out he opened up the box and denies his return. lol

:D

bkdtv

03-29-2010, 04:14 PM

A tip for new Premiere owners...Grab the latest version of kmttg (http://code.google.com/p/kmttg/) to download recorded files.

For now, kmttg is the only program that can take advantage of the new, faster TS downloads on the TiVo Premiere. It's not clear when TiVo will add that capability to TiVo Desktop. Here's a Youtube video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pH4_8VmPDSc&hd=1) showing the program in action.

Note: If you previously installed a version of kmttg, be sure to check "Download TiVo files in Transport Stream format" under File -> Configure -> Program Options.

scummybear

03-29-2010, 04:14 PM

I wish I had mine already. :(

b_scott

03-29-2010, 04:33 PM

AbMagFab

03-29-2010, 05:15 PM

Friends, I've been a Tivo fan since most of you were nipping at your mama's ankles. I would love nothing more than for Tivo to succeed.

But since the announcement of this thing, most (objective) people have been concerned that maybe Tivo blew it. I sure was hoping they didn't, but it appears they did.

The device is cheesy. It will be very interesting to see how many people have DOA-type situations with this first-run batch.

The UI is awful. There's no getting around that. And it's the primary selling point.

Support for one MCARD and MCARD only is an odd, and annoying reduction in functionality.

This box is a junker right now. There's absolutely no reason to upgrade to it if you have Series 3 boxes already. And if you don't, you'd be better off waiting, or getting a Tivo HD if you can find one.

It's nice to finally see the Tivo fanboy base coming out after the last few weeks, but you might want to wait until it's a little more founded. Unless you have a Premiere and can say it's great (which would be shocking), you might want to hold off commenting.

AbMagFab

03-29-2010, 05:16 PM

Good point. Just consider that he started his initial post with "Cons" first, and then "Pros."

It's fine for your cons to outnumber your pros, but ordering them like that is something only a pessimist would do!

That's because there aren't any pros to speak of. I've reordered them if that somehow is creating a perception issue.

AbMagFab

03-29-2010, 05:20 PM

+1. I agree 100%. He starts off his original (has since been edited) first post by describing the product as cheesy twice. This guy was just looking for any reason at all to return it. I hope TiVo figures out he opened up the box and denies his return. lol

Do you have one? If not, wait until you do. The thing is really cheesy - the box, the manufacturing, the remote, everything. I stated it twice because I was really surprised given the history of Tivo boxes and remotes.

Heck, my Series 3's feel rock solid, and even the Tivo HDs are reasonable. This Premiere is like a cheap plastic immitation.

Arcady

03-29-2010, 05:59 PM

Now I don't feel so bad that I put lifetime on a TiVo HD box just days before this new thing was announced. Hopefully they'll release a high-end unit again sometime in the future. I'd be happy with a Series3 that could use an M-Card and had 4 tuners.

AbMagFab

03-29-2010, 06:29 PM

Okay, got a replacement. Both tuners work fine now. All the other issues remain, including the severe speed issues with the couple of new UI screens, and overall general bugginess.

MickeS

03-29-2010, 06:31 PM

Now I feel like going to Best Buy and buying one just to see what I think of it. It just can't be as bad as the OP says.... I hope. :D

comma, splice

03-29-2010, 06:35 PM

Friends, I've been a Tivo fan since most of you were nipping at your mama's ankles.

Impossible! TiVo has only been around since 1999! HA!

jmpage2

03-29-2010, 06:51 PM

Well, even the demo I saw running on the Premiere at my local BB was a bit of a joke. Three minute long hard sell on the product and all the wonderful things it could do but everything was couched in extremely vague language and virtually ZERO screen shots demonstrating the functionality they want.

Even if the interface isn't done they should have a solid roadmap at this point as well as mock up screens that are representative of where the product will be in a short period of time.

I felt like I was watching an infomercial. They also locked the unit out so you couldn't see the menus at all or demo it in any way. They should have at least created an interactive demo of sorts that would show off some of the UI elements.

All in all this is a solid pass for me until TiVo demonstrates they can get their act together and deliver on the potential here.

I like my TiVo boxes a bunch and had plunked down for pre-orders on new Premiere's but I have cancelled them. I will give this a while and see what TiVo is capable of doing in the near future. I'm also interested to see what competitors are able to do now that TiVo has shown their hand with this box in its current (somewhat lacking) state.

bkdtv

03-29-2010, 06:56 PM

Do you have one? If not, wait until you do.I've had one for a few weeks.

Advantages
More responsive classic interface (after indexing is complete)
Slightly more responsive trickplay functions
Enhanced "press and hold" trickplay functions
Superior multi-room throughput
Superior TiVoToGo throughput
Superior TTCB (PC->TiVo) throughput
Superior PC streaming throughput with Streambaby
Better video output options with support for full 1080p24 output
Increased menu timeout from 5 minutes to 15 minutes
Increase in default "keep until" period from 2 days to 3 days
New channel logos in classic's Now Playing list
Better SD/HD scaling
Better digital SD picture quality
Better analog SD picture quality and no "gray screen" issue like TiVo HD
More robust video decoders-- able to decode 35+Mbps MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 video, up from ~25Mbps on the TivoHD and Series3
More robust audio decoders -- now reliably decodes 640Kbps DD

Hardware supports more A/V formats, including 1080p DIVX and Windows Media Professional audio (software doesn't, yet)
ENERGY STAR certified with ~35% less power consumption than TiVoHD, ~40% less than Series3
Internal drive runs quieter than TiVo HD and Series3
Runs cooler -- 29-31C
All black enclosure that matches latest equipment
HDMI 1.3; better HDMI compatibility
Future plans/potential as described by TiVo (ex: enhanced Flash versions of major HME applications; third-party and end-user Flash applications)

Disadvantages

Some bugs.
Can't backup or expand drive with current tools.
No phone line jack built-in for those without cable/dsl broadband.
No OLED screen like Series3.

The box has a "less beefy" power supply and less heft thanks to reduced power requirements. I don't know that I would necessarily call that a disadvantage.

Disappointments
No third-tuner. All M-CARDs support six tuners. Yes, I realize Cisco SDV tuning adapters only support two tuners.
HD UI is incomplete.
HD UI is too slow for day-to-day use in its current state.
Same HME applications available at launch (enhanced Flash versions not ready).
No multi-room streaming with DTCP-IP to support protected content.
No DLNA client support.
No built-in wireless 802.11n or built-in MoCA.
No keyboard remote at launch.
No new record options, save for Browse TV category subscriptions.
No elimination of 1.1GB buffer limit in Streambaby (i.e. no response to author's request for assistance to eliminate issue).
Only works with My DVR Expander external drive like TivoHD (doesn't allow use of other drives like Moxi, older Series3, DirecTV DVRs, and growing number of cable DVRs)
No new version of TiVo Desktop with MPEG-TS download support.

nrc

03-29-2010, 07:05 PM

I felt like I was watching an infomercial.

Um. You were.

TiVo's biggest problem is that people don't understand what benefits it provides over a plain vanilla cable company DVR. I think its good that they're running an infomercial to explain those things, but I agree that it would be better if you could temporarily break out and actually try things out for yourself.

mamosley

03-29-2010, 07:07 PM

I've had one for a few weeks.

Advantages

Better digital SD picture quality
Better analog SD picture quality and no "gray screen" issue like TiVo HD

I hadn't payed attention to the sd video quality until Top Gear started recording. With my tivo hd I would watch it on my apple tv subscription even though I have season pass set up. Fios doesnt have bbchd (I would complain more about it but I know where my bread is buttered) and the sd version was just blech. Now its actually watchable.

Yeah the hd ui is not complete and sluggish but I guess the sluggishness is not bothering me as much as it seems to borrow others.

innocentfreak

03-29-2010, 07:14 PM

I've had one for a few weeks.

Advantages

Disadvantages

Disappointments

I think my issue is how quickly the disappointments outweigh the advantages for me. Yeah I am keeping my order and have no plans on canceling. Still it just kind of makes you question who TiVo is talking to or listening to when planning these new units. Hopefully they will update their new feature survey once the rollout is complete.

I got that bit of excitement for them running down the advantages. The disadvantages other than the OLED aren't huge to me, but then I felt that big letdown I felt when they made the announcement when I read the disappointments. At some point it becomes very tough to defend TiVo or recommend it to people and I think some of us are there now.

AbMagFab

03-29-2010, 07:21 PM

I've had one for a few weeks.

Advantages
More responsive classic interface (after indexing is complete)
Slightly more responsive trickplay functions
Enhanced "press and hold" trickplay functions
Superior multi-room throughput
Superior TiVoToGo throughput
Superior TTCB (PC->TiVo) throughput
Superior PC streaming throughput with Streambaby
Better video output options with support for full 1080p24 output
Increased menu timeout from 5 minutes to 15 minutes
Increase in default "keep until" period from 2 days to 3 days
New channel logos in classic's Now Playing list
Better SD/HD scaling
Better digital SD picture quality
Better analog SD picture quality and no "gray screen" issue like TiVo HD
More robust video decoders-- able to decode 35+Mbps MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 video, up from ~25Mbps on the TivoHD and Series3
More robust audio decoders -- now reliably decodes 640Kbps DD

Hardware supports more A/V formats, including 1080p DIVX and Windows Media Professional audio (software doesn't, yet)
ENERGY STAR certified with ~35% less power consumption than TiVoHD, ~40% less than Series3
Internal drive runs quieter than TiVo HD and Series3
Runs cooler -- 29-31C
All black enclosure that matches latest equipment
HDMI 1.3; better HDMI compatibility
Future plans/potential as described by TiVo (ex: enhanced Flash versions of major HME applications; third-party and end-user Flash applications)

Let's distill that first set down, as you're being a little redundant and generous with advantages based on theoretical future use, and many are very subjective (and I'm not sure I even agree):

Advantages
More responsive classic interface (after indexing is complete) - not sure what you mean here, as my S2 and THDs are equally responsive; and Season Pass reordering is just as painfully slow Slightly more responsive trickplay functions - unmeasurable
Enhanced "press and hold" trickplay functions - not if you want 30-sec skip instead of the weird 30-sec advance
Superior throughput - perhaps, waiting for indexing to complete before thorough testing, but on my wired network so far, it's the same as my S3's
A bunch of minor configuation tweaks - Increased menu timeout from 5 minutes to 15 minutes; Increase in default "keep until" period from 2 days to 3 days; New channel logos in classic's Now Playing list
Internal drive runs quieter than TiVo HD and Series3 - not sure what you're running, but they're all silent

Better SD/HD scaling; Better digital SD picture quality; Better analog SD picture quality and no "gray screen" issue like TiVo HD - gray screen fixed with most recent 11.x release anyway; the rest is useless with all but the oldest of TVs
ENERGY STAR certified with ~35% less power consumption than TiVoHD, ~40% less than Series3

And the pack of "spec" features, that are useless for now as they are only in theory, and unusable with the current software - I think most of us have learned by now to only buy a CE device on what it can do *now*, not what it promises us it might do in the future:
- Better video output options with support for full 1080p24 output - useless for now, unless I missed a source of 1080p24 material for this device?
- More robust video decoders-- able to decode 35+Mbps MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 video, up from ~25Mbps on the TivoHD and Series3
- More robust audio decoders -- now reliably decodes 640Kbps DD
- Hardware supports more A/V formats, including 1080p DIVX and Windows Media Professional audio (software doesn't, yet)
HDMI 1.3; better HDMI compatibility
Future plans/potential as described by TiVo (ex: enhanced Flash versions of major HME applications; third-party and end-user Flash applications)[/list]

b_scott

03-29-2010, 07:25 PM

riekl

03-29-2010, 07:32 PM

I'll never understand the need for some people to have their HT equipment be heavy and bulky. There are no moving parts, smaller and lighter are better. It fits more places. Stuff like this does not need heft.

There are no moving parts in a Tivo ? Are you sure about that :)

'Heavy and bulky' is not what people are talking about. They are talking about it NOT feeling like my 3 year old's latest throw away toy. There is no question Tivo went el cheapo on the case and construction of this unit, the components may be ok (and i say may with a big MAY) but the build quality is crap.

vansmack

03-29-2010, 07:35 PM

They'll slap "green" on the case in no time and people will start to rave about it.

riekl

03-29-2010, 07:47 PM

They'll slap "green" on the case in no time and people will start to rave about it.

In San Fran maybe :) In the rest of the country, environmentalism is pretty much dead.

jmpage2

03-29-2010, 08:00 PM

In San Fran maybe :) In the rest of the country, environmentalism is pretty much dead.

Eh, that's really not true.

Getting power consumption down on consumer electronics is a good thing, unless you want to keep paying higher and higher energy rates for all the new electric plants they have to build to meet exploding demand.

AbMagFab

03-29-2010, 08:07 PM

Eh, that's really not true.

Getting power consumption down on consumer electronics is a good thing, unless you want to keep paying higher and higher energy rates for all the new electric plants they have to build to meet exploding demand.

We just need everyone to replace their old CRT TVs with new 3D LCD TVs, then we're set!

(Oh yeah, something else the Tivo Premiere can never support thanks to the HDMI 1.3 chip in it - 3D TV of any form...)

bkdtv

03-29-2010, 08:09 PM

not sure what you mean here, as my S2 and THDs are equally responsive; and Season Pass reordering is just as painfully slow In all due respect, I don't think you've had enough experience (post-indexing) to effectively judge responsiveness.

Season pass re-ordering is still slow because the classic UI uses a single core. The Premiere might cut 5 seconds off a 30 second re-order.

Enhanced "press and hold" trickplay functions - not if you want 30-sec skip instead of the weird 30-sec advanceYou can take advantage of both. Enabling 30sec skip with SPS30S does not disable the "press and hold" functions until you reboot. It's not clear to me whether the disabling of those functions upon reboot is the intended behavior; that behavior did not occur under my previous software.

Superior throughput - perhaps, waiting for indexing to complete before thorough testing, but on my wired network so far, it's the same as my S3'sWhen transferring to the Series3 and THDs, you will be limited by those units.

After indexing is complete, test TiVoToGo using the latest version of kmttg. The current version of TiVo Desktop cannot take advantage of the new, faster TS downloads.

A bunch of minor configuation tweaks - Increased menu timeout from 5 minutes to 15 minutes; Increase in default "keep until" period from 2 days to 3 days; New channel logos in classic's Now Playing listThey are minor tweaks, but improvements nonetheless. The new logos look much better than the old ones, imo.

Internal drive runs quieter than TiVo HD and Series3 - not sure what you're running, but they're all silentIn an entertainment center, you won't notice a difference. But those with TiVos in a smaller bedroom may.

Better SD/HD scaling; Better digital SD picture quality; Better analog SD picture quality and no "gray screen" issue like TiVo HD - gray screen fixed with most recent 11.x release anyway; the rest is useless with all but the oldest of TVsThis has nothing to do with new vs. old TVs. If you output all channels at fixed resolutions (ex: SD channels at 1080i), then you are using the scaling circuitry in the TiVo, not the TV.

If the gray screen issue is fixed, that is good news. I hadn't heard that. The Premiere still has better NTSC decoders and encoders to produce better quality on analog channels.

- Better video output options with support for full 1080p24 output - useless for now, unless I missed a source of 1080p24 material for this device?PC videos, such as Blu-ray rips, are 1080p24.

At some point, hopefully TiVo will add support for 1080p24 from Vudu and Cinema Now.

More robust video decoders-- able to decode 35+Mbps MPEG-2 and MPEG-4 video, up from ~25Mbps on the TivoHD and Series3

More robust audio decoders -- now reliably decodes 640Kbps DDSuch higher bitrates are used by Blu-ray disks and Blu-ray backups.

RoyK

03-29-2010, 08:17 PM

AbMagFab

03-29-2010, 08:17 PM

This has nothing to do with new vs. old TVs. If you output all channels at fixed resolutions (ex: SD channels at 1080i), then you are using the scaling circuitry in the TiVo, not the TV.Agreed. I figured most people were using "Native" nowadays as the TVs are generally better than Tivo at scaling, and they end up scaling again anyway, so do it just once.

PC videos, such as Blu-ray rips, are 1080p24. Such higher bitrates are used by Blu-ray disks and Blu-ray backups. The same goes for the Dolby Digital tracks.Can I get those onto the Premiere without having to recode them? pyTivo won't do it, at least the last version I last downloaded.[/QUOTE]

bkdtv

03-29-2010, 08:26 PM

Can I get those onto the Premiere without having to recode them? pyTivo won't do it, at least the last version I last downloaded.Yes. You can "push" 1080p MP4 files with DD using pyTiVo's web interface. You can also "pull" 1080p MPG files with DD from the NPL.

AbMagFab

03-29-2010, 08:33 PM

Yes. You can "push" 1080p MP4 files with DD using pyTiVo's web interface. You can also "pull" 1080p MPG files with DD from the NPL.

Where would a 1080p MPG originate from on the Tivo (if I didn't push it)?

And I know I can push them, but pyTivo transcodes them - at least any normal 1080p24 BluRay type of file, including HD camcorder files. Everything I've ever tried has been transcoded.

orangeboy

03-29-2010, 08:36 PM

Where would a 1080p MPG originate from on the Tivo (if I didn't push it)?

And I know I can push them, but pyTivo transcodes them - at least any normal 1080p24 BluRay type of file, including HD camcorder files. Everything I've ever tried has been transcoded.

I push BluRay rips to my original S3* with no transcoding, and have been for awhile now. Check out the TiVo Home Media Features & TiVoToGo forum from time to time - and check the Video Compatibility chart found here: http://code.google.com/p/streambaby/wiki/video_compatibility

*I'm looking forward to the Premiere for better playback of said BluRay rips...

innocentfreak

03-29-2010, 08:42 PM

I will really need to look into pushing and pulling files with the new transfer speeds. These days I just watch my rips through Media Center, but if I can push/pull them quick enough I would rather do that since I prefer the playback controls on my TiVo.

nrc

03-29-2010, 09:44 PM

There are no moving parts in a Tivo ? Are you sure about that :)

'Heavy and bulky' is not what people are talking about. They are talking about it NOT feeling like my 3 year old's latest throw away toy. There is no question Tivo went el cheapo on the case and construction of this unit, the components may be ok (and i say may with a big MAY) but the build quality is crap.

From the interior pictures it looks pretty well put together. The case appears to be lighter gauge metal, but there's no reason they needed to continue with a heavier case when everything else was shrunk down. At least it doesn't have obvious reworks done by hand like my original TiVo. :D

As for looking cheesy: every single TiVo branded DVR except the S3 has looked cheesy.

joy_division

03-29-2010, 10:06 PM

I love the message I'm at during setup... "Preparing the service update...This may take up to an hour, possibly longer."

I always laugh when I see a statement like this. This is the same as saying "it will take up to 1 minute or longer" or "it will take up to 10 years or longer." It pretty much covers all time.

It's like "Expect up to 8 inches or more." What the hell does that means? The only thing it doesn't cover is negative amounts.

wmcbrine

03-29-2010, 10:07 PM

I figured most people were using "Native" nowadaysI can't speak for most people, but for me: no way. Native means a slow resync process every time you change to a different resolution.

Can I get those onto the Premiere without having to recode them? pyTivo won't do it, at least the last version I last downloaded.I just ordered a Premiere to test with...

sghrush

03-29-2010, 10:24 PM

I can't speak for most people, but for me: no way. Native means a slow resync process every time you change to a different resolution.

I just ordered a Premiere to test with...

Because I have a Pioneer Kuro, I just use native because the pic looks so much better having the Kuro scale it once.

b_scott

03-29-2010, 10:29 PM

There are no moving parts in a Tivo ? Are you sure about that :)

'Heavy and bulky' is not what people are talking about. They are talking about it NOT feeling like my 3 year old's latest throw away toy. There is no question Tivo went el cheapo on the case and construction of this unit, the components may be ok (and i say may with a big MAY) but the build quality is crap.

there's a fan. there's a hard drive which doesn't count as a moving part in a normal sense - it's enclosed.

If you don't need extra weight, why put it in there? Things are getting more complex and smaller at the same time.

gweempose

03-29-2010, 10:54 PM

Since these new boxes have HDMI 1.3, is it possible for them to bitstream Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio?

b_scott

03-29-2010, 11:17 PM

Since these new boxes have HDMI 1.3, is it possible for them to bitstream Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio?

I'm sure they COULD - but TV won't be sending that signal, so I don't see the point. And Netflix only does stereo. It'll do 5.1 in the future, and Amazon does too - but I don't see streaming TrueHD

mr1581

03-29-2010, 11:32 PM

Interestingly enough, I had no problems setting up the new box. It didn't take very long to get everything loaded up, although it took almost an hour on comcast's side to get the cablecard repaired to the box. And I have the hdui.

skiguy32

03-29-2010, 11:56 PM

No. The unit will function fine and will record all your analog channels.

I was wondering this same thing about the series 3 tivos. I just ordered one from woot Saturday night so I'm still waiting on it but I also only subscribe to analog cable so does this apply to the S3's too (only need a cable card for digital cable)?

gweempose

03-30-2010, 12:36 AM

... so does this apply to the S3's too (only need a cable card for digital cable)?Yes. If you are using the TiVo with only analog cable and OTA, a cablecard is not necessary.

MickeS

03-30-2010, 12:39 AM

Um. You were.

TiVo's biggest problem is that people don't understand what benefits it provides over a plain vanilla cable company DVR. I think its good that they're running an infomercial to explain those things, but I agree that it would be better if you could temporarily break out and actually try things out for yourself.

If they actually HAD a good UI for anything other than recording TV, they could just do a UI only ad like Apple for the iPhone. Let's say they had a neat interface for how to transfer a show to a PC or an iPod, or a nice way to display content on your PC on the TiVo.

Of course, it can't be done since what they actually HAVE, while useful to me and others, looks old and cobbled together from spare UI parts, and wouldn't make anyone want to buy it only for that.

AbMagFab

03-30-2010, 05:31 AM

Update - after I registered the box, and the service call last night, the new HD UI is completely gone! There is no setting to turn it back on, and it just went away, even though it was configured to have it last night.

Under System Information, it says "HDUI Available: No"

I'm not sure if this is a smart move by Tivo or not. If they will (very shortly) release a blazing fast HD UI with more than a couple screens, then this is a good move. If they're just going to turn the same junk couple of screens on in a couple of days, this was a dumb move.

Anyway, we'll have to see - anyone else get the HD UI disabled after having it briefly, or not get it at all?

AbMagFab

03-30-2010, 05:34 AM

I push BluRay rips to my original S3* with no transcoding, and have been for awhile now. Check out the TiVo Home Media Features & TiVoToGo forum from time to time - and check the Video Compatibility chart found here: http://code.google.com/p/streambaby/wiki/video_compatibility

*I'm looking forward to the Premiere for better playback of said BluRay rips...

It is absolutely transcoding if you're talking a straight BluRay rip. The current Tivo is not capable of playing back those formats - just the audio alone makes them incompatible. Unless you're transcoding your rip at rip time (which is not what you said, and means it's being transcoded anyway).

brasscat

03-30-2010, 05:37 AM

Update - after I registered the box, and the service call last night, [B]the new HD UI is completely gone! ...

They're probably pissed at your constant insults of their latest child! (jk!)

Changing the subject for a moment from their (arguably) horrible new UI ...

Engadget talked about how they didn't like the new remotes. Can anyone comment on that? How are those new remotes?

AbMagFab

03-30-2010, 05:40 AM

They're probably pissed at your constant insults of their latest child! (jk!)

Changing the subject for a moment from their (arguably) horrible new UI ...

Engadget talked about how they didn't like the new remotes. Can anyone comment on that? How are those new remotes?

I did in the beginning I thought - just like the new box, it just feels cheesy. I don't know what they did, since the shape is the same, but it feels like a somewhat fragile disposable remote now.

AbMagFab

03-30-2010, 05:42 AM

From the interior pictures it looks pretty well put together. The case appears to be lighter gauge metal, but there's no reason they needed to continue with a heavier case when everything else was shrunk down. At least it doesn't have obvious reworks done by hand like my original TiVo. :D

As for looking cheesy: every single TiVo branded DVR except the S3 has looked cheesy.

Again, it's not about weight necessarily, it's about an overall cheapness factor and feeling to it. It just feels like it's fragile, like it's cheap.

ilkevinli

03-30-2010, 06:11 AM

TivoPony posted in the "No HD UI with Premiere" thread that all boxes are suppose to have the HD UI enabled and that there was an error on the server side that turned it off for some boxes. You may want to check that thread and PM him.

Update - after I registered the box, and the service call last night, the new HD UI is completely gone! There is no setting to turn it back on, and it just went away, even though it was configured to have it last night.

Under System Information, it says "HDUI Available: No"

I'm not sure if this is a smart move by Tivo or not. If they will (very shortly) release a blazing fast HD UI with more than a couple screens, then this is a good move. If they're just going to turn the same junk couple of screens on in a couple of days, this was a dumb move.

Anyway, we'll have to see - anyone else get the HD UI disabled after having it briefly, or not get it at all?

innocentfreak

03-30-2010, 06:43 AM

yeah I would PM TiVoPony.

Thread with his replies. (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7851606#post7851606)

You should have the UI. If you're not seeing it, drop me a private message with your TSN (don't post your TSN in the thread!).

Thanks,
Pony

Also, if you could let us know what you've set for your screen resolution, and whether you're using the 'smartscreen' setting under the video/tv aspect ratio menu that'll help.

Pony

bkdtv

03-30-2010, 07:16 AM

I don't recall whether I mentioned this before, but Amazon VOD plays back at 1080p (if your display accepts 1080p24). Amazon encodes its content in 1080p24 @ 5Mbps.

Be aware 1080p30 playback is unsupported in the current Premiere software; videos encoded in 1080p30 only play back in 1080i. Only 1080p24 videos output in full 1080p.

Furthermore, I only get 1080p24 output if the file is encoded as 1920x1080p24. If it is a 2:35:1 video encoded as 1920x800p24, then the TiVo outputs 720p.

orangeboy

03-30-2010, 08:14 AM

(Bolding added by me)
Where would a 1080p MPG originate from on the Tivo (if I didn't push it)?

And I know I can push them, but pyTivo transcodes them - at least any normal 1080p24 BluRay type of file, including HD camcorder files. Everything I've ever tried has been transcoded.

Added the word "pyTivo" for clarification:
I push BluRay rips to my original S3* with no [pyTivo] transcoding, and have been for awhile now. Check out the TiVo Home Media Features & TiVoToGo forum from time to time - and check the Video Compatibility chart found here: http://code.google.com/p/streambaby/wiki/video_compatibility

*I'm looking forward to the Premiere for better playback of said BluRay rips...

It is absolutely transcoding if you're talking a straight BluRay rip. The current Tivo is not capable of playing back those formats - just the audio alone makes them incompatible. Unless you're transcoding your rip at rip time (which is not what you said, and means it's being transcoded anyway).

Sorry. I should have clarified, but didn't realize I had to since we were talking about pyTivo transcoding. It appears that the Video Compatibility chart (http://code.google.com/p/streambaby/wiki/video_compatibility) and BluRay codec specifications (according to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#Codecs)) are common in quite a few of the formats (audio seems to be the limiting factor here with the TiVo not supporting linear PCM, and the optionally BluRay supported audio codecs). Perhaps pyTivo is transcoding what you're trying to push because of proprietary containers?

AbMagFab

03-30-2010, 08:24 AM

Sorry. I should have clarified, but didn't realize I had to since we were talking about pyTivo transcoding. It appears that the Video Compatibility chart (http://code.google.com/p/streambaby/wiki/video_compatibility) and BluRay codec specifications (according to wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blu-ray_Disc#Codecs)) are common in quite a few of the formats (audio seems to be the limiting factor here with the TiVo not supporting linear PCM, and the optionally BluRay supported audio codecs). Perhaps pyTivo is transcoding what you're trying to push because of proprietary containers?

Right, we're talking pyTivo here, which always transcodes to MPEG2 anyway. You mentioned StreamBaby, which has some other capabilities. Not sure what you're saying here, but pyTivo will transcode everything into MPEG2 as far as I know (and there's even a quote on the top of the link you posted - "Note that pyTivo pulls support mpeg2 format only, so any other types will be transcoded on the fly.").

First, there's not a single BluRay HD audio spec that the Tivo can handle, so a straight BluRay rip will not work, even through StreamBaby. I think we can agree here?

Perhaps during your rip, you are muxing down the audio to just the non-HD audio? Not sure why you'd do this, but okay.

Even so, the core audio tracks will always be above the max specs for Tivo audio tracks (minimum 640K in real life), so again, transcoding will be necessary. Just check out the audio tracks on any BluRay, and you'll see that the bitrate alone is always higher than the max Tivo audio bitrate?

Anyway, there's no way a BluRay rip can make it to the Tivo without transcoding somewhere - either on the PC prior to transfer, or through pyTivo during transfer.

orangeboy

03-30-2010, 08:29 AM

Well, there's not a single BluRay HD audio spec that the Tivo can handle, so a straight BluRay rip will not work. I think we can agree here?

Do you not see AC3 listed in both links I provided?

AbMagFab

03-30-2010, 08:33 AM

Do you not see AC3 listed in both links I provided?

Yes, do you see the max bitrate in the link you provided?

"Audio sampling rates need to be either 44.1 KHz or 48 KHz and audio bit rates should not exceed 448 Kbps."

1) DD5.1 tracks are not HD audio. All "straight" BluRay rips will have HD audio, which the Tivo will not play.

2) The "core" track, if it's TrueHD only, will be DD5.1, but will be at 640K bitrate minimum, per real-life.

3) PCM and DTS-HD audio have to be transcoded when sent to the Tivo, and at least half (more like 65%) of BluRays fall into this category.

I don't see any combination that would allow for non-transcoded transfer to a Tivo Series 3. Perhaps the premiere can handle > 448k DD5.1 tracks, but even so you either are stripping the HD audio at rip time (seems like a silly idea), or transcoding at stream time.

comma, splice

03-30-2010, 08:45 AM

AbMagFab

03-30-2010, 09:47 AM

Not sure how any of this latest debate qualifies as "TiVo Premiere - First impressions" ... but OK!

But also, who would try to rip a Blu-ray onto a TiVo? Why not just watch it on a, um, blu-ray player??

You don't want to go there... Better to check out the AVS forums. There are tons of reasons to watch a BluRay from a PC (ripped to a hard drive) versus a player, not the least of which is having your entire library available on-demand (legality aside).

However watching it from the Tivo, which can't provide HD audio, makes little sense to me, as the HD audio is 1/2 the benefit of the BluRay, IMO.

Anyway, back on topic. I PM's TivoPony to get my HD UI turned back on, but no response as of yet.

comma, splice

03-30-2010, 09:53 AM

You don't want to go there... Better to check out the AVS forums. There are tons of reasons to watch a BluRay from a PC (ripped to a hard drive) versus a player, not the least of which is having your entire library available on-demand (legality aside).

Well, I do want to go there. (To be clear, you helped steer this topic off course.)

Let me just say that you would have to be really lazy to not be willing to get up out of your chair :eek: and switch out a disc when you want to watch a different movie.

Not to mention the fact that you'd have to have a pretty nice PC to rival the video and sound quality you'd get from a $200 Blu-ray player.

wmcbrine

03-30-2010, 09:55 AM

Right, we're talking pyTivo here, which always transcodes to MPEG2 anyway.Not on a "push", no. (That's a transfer originated via pyTivo's web interface.)

AbMagFab

03-30-2010, 10:41 AM

Well, I do want to go there. (To be clear, you helped steer this topic off course.)

Let me just say that you would have to be really lazy to not be willing to get up out of your chair :eek: and switch out a disc when you want to watch a different movie.

Not to mention the fact that you'd have to have a pretty nice PC to rival the video and sound quality you'd get from a $200 Blu-ray player.

The PC is just the disk storage server. You use another device, like a PCH or Dune to stream the files, in HD audio and HD video.

Do you have a stack of CDs, or do you have them all scanned and available on demand? It's no different with videos (DVD or BluRay). It has nothing to do with lazy, it has to do with having your entire collection digitally stored and ready for play on-demand from any TV at any time.

Just by the fact that you've asked this question, I'd suggest to go over to AVS and read up on this. You'll quickly find yourself in a minority among video enthusiasts.

comma, splice

03-30-2010, 11:18 AM

The PC is just the disk storage server. You use another device, like a PCH or Dune to stream the files, in HD audio and HD video.

Do you have a stack of CDs, or do you have them all scanned and available on demand? It's no different with videos (DVD or BluRay). It has nothing to do with lazy, it has to do with having your entire collection digitally stored and ready for play on-demand from any TV at any time.

Just by the fact that you've asked this question, I'd suggest to go over to AVS and read up on this. You'll quickly find yourself in a minority among video enthusiasts.

I've been on AVS forum for years, probably since you were nipping at your mama's ankles.

But the difference between digitizing CDs and digitizing DVD/blu-ray is that people like to make a playlist of their favorite songs from several CDs. Then they can play them back in their preferred order while skipping over songs they don't like.

Nobody but the biggest couch potato would find any benefit in making a similar "playlist" of their favorite movies.

I'm not saying that digitizing your movies is an illegitimate practice. People who have hundreds of blu-rays obviously have more money (and time to watch movies) than I do. I could see how they might use this setup for cutting down on clutter at the very least.

I'm just saying that, to me, it would be pointless. When I want to watch a movie, I put the blu-ray in my PS3 and turn on the TV. I get the best picture and sound without adding any unnecessary steps or costs to the process.

MickeS

03-30-2010, 11:23 AM

Nobody but the biggest couch potato would find any benefit in making a similar "playlist" of their favorite movies.

Unfortunately for you, this forum and at AVS is where you're likely to find the biggest couch potatoes. :D

Discs suck. Ripped and streaming video is the future.

RoyK

03-30-2010, 11:25 AM

Unfortunately for you, this forum and at AVS is where you're likely to find the biggest couch potatoes. :D

Discs suck. Ripped and streaming video is the future.

Why stream when you can simply connect the HDMI output of your HTPC to your TV and play?

Actually the future is where your HTPC is part of your TV.

comma, splice

03-30-2010, 11:27 AM

Unfortunately for you, this forum and at AVS is where you're likely to find the biggest couch potatoes. :D

Discs suck. Ripped and streaming video is the future.

Perhaps. When there's a low-cost way to do it that's reliable and just as easy as sticking a disc into a machine and pressing play, I'll be among the first to buy it.

MickeS

03-30-2010, 11:41 AM

Why stream when you can simply connect the HDMI output of your HTPC to your TV and play?

Actually the future is where your HTPC is part of your TV.

Well, I was talking in the abstract... :)

I too have a PC connected to the TV (though I don't record anything on it), so I don't really need any of all these new gadgets on the market, including the new TiVo broadband functionality.

AbMagFab

03-30-2010, 11:49 AM

Perhaps. When there's a low-cost way to do it that's reliable and just as easy as sticking a disc into a machine and pressing play, I'll be among the first to buy it.

Again, that's here already. If you really are curious, go read up. Many of us have systems in place that can be easily used by our wives/kids/baby sitters. We are way past the technophile stage, and well into the normal CE device stage.

This is here now - You can bring up a wall of movie posters/movie boxes, organized however you want, filtered however you want. You can review the plot, rating, runtime, etc. When you find what you want, you just hit play and you get the full original quality streamed to you instantly. All using your standard single remote control. Stable enough to run for weeks/months without being rebooted.

Just because you're unaware of it, doesn't mean there's not a ton of value in it.

And I'll try again - it has little to do with playlists or being a couch potato, it has to do with digitizing your media for instant access anywhere. Physical media is passe and pointless. And disk space is bordering on free. The devices to playback are also very inexpensive, in the ~$200 range for many of them, with full HD video and bitstreaming HD audio.

Anyway, you seem to have been left out of this part of the digitizing evolution, so do some research then get back to us!:up::D

aaronwt

03-30-2010, 11:52 AM

You don't want to go there... Better to check out the AVS forums. There are tons of reasons to watch a BluRay from a PC (ripped to a hard drive) versus a player, not the least of which is having your entire library available on-demand (legality aside).

However watching it from the Tivo, which can't provide HD audio, makes little sense to me, as the HD audio is 1/2 the benefit of the BluRay, IMO.

Anyway, back on topic. I PM's TivoPony to get my HD UI turned back on, but no response as of yet.

I like using a media player better. I did the HTPC thing in the early 2000's with SDI connections from the DVD players. My Popcorn Hour C200 plays back my BD ISos just like sticking a disc in the player, and only uses a few watts.

I have over 100 BD ISOs so far but still have over 600 titles to rip from my BDs and HD DVDs.

scummybear

03-30-2010, 12:03 PM

Again, that's here already. If you really are curious, go read up. Many of us have systems in place that can be easily used by our wives/kids/baby sitters. We are way past the technophile stage, and well into the normal CE device stage.

This is here now - You can bring up a wall of movie posters/movie boxes, organized however you want, filtered however you want. You can review the plot, rating, runtime, etc. When you find what you want, you just hit play and you get the full original quality streamed to you instantly. All using your standard single remote control. Stable enough to run for weeks/months without being rebooted.

Just because you're unaware of it, doesn't mean there's not a ton of value in it.

And I'll try again - it has little to do with playlists or being a couch potato, it has to do with digitizing your media for instant access anywhere. Physical media is passe and pointless. And disk space is bordering on free. The devices to playback are also very inexpensive, in the ~$200 range for many of them, with full HD video and bitstreaming HD audio.

Anyway, you seem to have been left out of this part of the digitizing evolution, so do some research then get back to us!:up::D

I agree. It is definitely more convenient for me to just store it all on an old pc I had. Through ubuntu server on there, and save all rips and downloads to that drive on network. Not that I am too lazy to put in a disc, but everything is stored there, organized, and accessible from the 360 in the basement, and soon to be tivo premiere in the living room, and hacked xbox with xbmc in the bedroom. I can simply box up after I rip, throw in box in closet, and never worry about it again. Streaming just makes it easy to know exactly where the movie is, not to mention have stupid ass friends borrow movies without asking. lol. And we also stream our music collection through surround sound in the living room/basement when we have people over.

And it is all easy enough to do, that even my wife can get it working. And she is even less tech savvy then I am. lol :D

comma, splice

03-30-2010, 01:36 PM

Anyway, you seem to have been left out of this part of the digitizing evolution, so do some research then get back to us!:up::D

Arrogant, passive-aggressive people like you make me think I'm onto something with my current philosophy. Thanks!

:up::D:up:

macgyver

03-30-2010, 01:44 PM

comma, splice

03-30-2010, 01:48 PM

I just got my two XL boxes. Nothing feels cheesy about the boxes themselves (physically). The remotes seem fine. They are glossy plastic, which I don't care for as much as matte, but that's a style thing.

Comcast doesn't come until tomorrow so I'm only going to get so far with the setup tonight, but I just thought I'd drop my 2 cents having seen the earlier comments about cheesy or cheap build quality. These will look just fine next to my Sony equipment. They're certainly much nicer than the DirecTiVo boxes they are replacing (I've only seen the previous TiVo standalone boxes in passing, so I can't comment on how they compare there).

Yeah, my XL came during my lunch break today. Free, one-day ground shipping... One of the perks of living in Texas, I guess.

Anyway, the notion that these boxes are "cheesy" or poorly built seemed out-of-touch, to me. They have substantial weight and look very slick.

I'll post some more about the inside (what really counts) once I get it going.

b_scott

03-30-2010, 01:54 PM

thanks for getting back on topic! :)

BlackBetty

03-30-2010, 02:00 PM

Anyway, the notion that these boxes are "cheesy" or poorly built seemed out-of-touch, to me. They have substantial weight and look very slick.

I agree.

jmpage2

03-30-2010, 02:02 PM

I've been on AVS forum for years, probably since you were nipping at your mama's ankles.

But the difference between digitizing CDs and digitizing DVD/blu-ray is that people like to make a playlist of their favorite songs from several CDs. Then they can play them back in their preferred order while skipping over songs they don't like.

Nobody but the biggest couch potato would find any benefit in making a similar "playlist" of their favorite movies.

I'm not saying that digitizing your movies is an illegitimate practice. People who have hundreds of blu-rays obviously have more money (and time to watch movies) than I do. I could see how they might use this setup for cutting down on clutter at the very least.

I'm just saying that, to me, it would be pointless. When I want to watch a movie, I put the blu-ray in my PS3 and turn on the TV. I get the best picture and sound without adding any unnecessary steps or costs to the process.

If you have hundreds of movies it becomes cumbersome to have them all at hand ready to put into the machine. Additionally you have the added concern that a disc could be damaged and rendered unplayable. There's also pretty long load times of 1-2 minutes or longer for many titles, plus watching all the previews and other garbage before you get to the main feature.

Now factor in a household with multiple AV setups such as one in the family room, bedroom, workout room, etc.

Ripping and centralizing your media solves all of these issues. You rip your collection and store them safely, then access the content from any TV in the house that you put a streaming device on.

I like this idea even better than downloadable content because you are getting 100% of the pure audio and video quality of the original BD with no further compression and as a bonus you can eliminate the annoying menus, previews and warnings if you don't want to see them.

The only issue with this solution is the quasi legality currently, but hopefully in the future BD will open up aspects of home licensing that will make this completely legitimate and even appliance based where you just stick the disc into a "jukebox" and it gets the disc ready for you.

I'm looking at getting either PCH, Popbox or Dune to do this myself and quite excited about it as I have TVs in the workout room, family room and bedroom (not to mention guest room) that could all benefit from not having to schlep a handful of discs around the house.

comma, splice

03-30-2010, 02:06 PM

...

Thanks for this well-worded post. (And for not treating me like yesterday's garbage!) When/if I have the money I would love a setup like the one you describe. In the meantime, I can watch high-quality movies for the cost of my PS3. Good enough for me.

oViTynoT

03-30-2010, 03:00 PM

Here here! Streaming is the new Black.

I ripped my entire DVD library (200+ discs) to MKV so I can "On-Demand" them to any of my PCs, and my TVs via WDTV Live players.

My KIDS love it, because they can pop in any movie in less than 15 seconds, and I love that I don't get new fingerprints and peanut butter all over my original media. :)

So far, I've only consumed about 400 Megs of my 1TB Media share, but I don't have any of my BD's ripped, either.

NotVeryWitty

03-30-2010, 03:03 PM

Sorry for your bad experience. I'm sure that because the unit you got only had working tuner, everyone else's will too.
Thanks for this well-worded post. (And for not treating me like yesterday's garbage!)
Perhaps your earlier smarta$$ response might have had a little bit to do with how you were treated... :rolleyes:

comma, splice

03-30-2010, 03:26 PM

Perhaps your earlier smarta$$ response might have had a little bit to do with how you were treated... :rolleyes:

Yep!

jmpage2

03-30-2010, 03:29 PM

fyodor

03-30-2010, 03:32 PM

I push BluRay rips to my original S3* with no transcoding, and have been for awhile now. Check out the TiVo Home Media Features & TiVoToGo forum from time to time - and check the Video Compatibility chart found here: http://code.google.com/p/streambaby/wiki/video_compatibility

*I'm looking forward to the Premiere for better playback of said BluRay rips...

Really? My understanding was that the S3 would not support blu-ray bitrates, even if the same codecs were supported at lower bitrates.

fyodor

03-30-2010, 03:40 PM

Well, I do want to go there. (To be clear, you helped steer this topic off course.)

Let me just say that you would have to be really lazy to not be willing to get up out of your chair :eek: and switch out a disc when you want to watch a different movie.

Not to mention the fact that you'd have to have a pretty nice PC to rival the video and sound quality you'd get from a $200 Blu-ray player.

I'm not going to shlep over and put in a new movie like some sort of thirteenth century French serf.

Beyond the convenience factor, which does matter to some people, it's especially an issue when you have multiple viewing rooms and when you have several people (especially children) and don't want to keep track of what is where.

comma, splice

03-30-2010, 03:43 PM

I'm not going to shlep over and put in a new movie like some sort of thirteenth century French serf.

I LOL'd :D

b_scott

03-30-2010, 03:44 PM

where are all these children who know how to use media centers and Tivo's for streaming, but also put peanut butter all over discs and leave them in the toaster?

matguy

03-30-2010, 04:03 PM

where are all these children who know how to use media centers and Tivo's for streaming, but also put peanut butter all over discs and leave them in the toaster?

Um, a mixture of my kids. My daughter is 10 and she knows how to use media centers/Tivo/whatever, but she also has a -very- bad habbit of leaving disks sitting out. My 3 year old son thinks these disks sitting out are toys, upon which Peanut Butter is deposited and then toasted.

b_scott

03-30-2010, 04:13 PM

Um, a mixture of my kids. My daughter is 10 and she knows how to use media centers/Tivo/whatever, but she also has a -very- bad habbit of leaving disks sitting out. My 3 year old son thinks these disks sitting out are toys, upon which Peanut Butter is deposited and then toasted.

lol

Mike-Mike

03-30-2010, 05:38 PM

I LOL'd :D

me too :up:

riekl

03-30-2010, 05:56 PM

Really? My understanding was that the S3 would not support blu-ray bitrates, even if the same codecs were supported at lower bitrates.

That's because it can't, Blu-Ray need 5MB/sec minimum and the S3 can't come close to that, at best it does 3, 3.5 on a good day.

brasscat

03-30-2010, 05:57 PM

OK - got mine going through the setup -- to initial download -- currently.

Have to say, I think the opinion that Premiere looks "cheap" is overstated. To me, it looks like what you'd expect from the next gen box. Smaller, lighter. There's clear plastic shipping tape covering the glossy front panel, which I peeled off (which is what you're supposed to do) and after that it looks quality to me. The box to me shows refinement and simplification.

Without the IR port, there's less cables the thing ships with too. Opening a TiVo shipping box is not like opening an Apple product, but it does the job and to me doesn't take away any from my first impressions.

The new remote: I weighed the old and new. The old remote is 5.6oz and the new one is 5.5oz (both with batteries). The key feel difference is the glossy back of the new remote, part of which is ribbed, which doesn't feel as good as the matted black plastic of the previous gen remote. Overall, however, I like the new remote better! The buttons feel better, more solid, and the colors and print are more vibrant than previous gen.

The old software came on mine... My TiVo is updating to the new firmware already (when I first starting writing this it just started getting program information over wifi, so that part completed noticeably quicker). Using the low-res menus doesn't feel a lot different than my old TiVo HD at this point.

That's all I have for now. I'm just hoping the new firmware will install before Lost tonight 2 hrs 10 minutes from now.

If I notice anything else of interest, I'll comment here. So far, and in my opinion, the new TiVo looks pretty good from the hardware/remote perspective.

I hold that they should have integrated wifi into the unit though. Hooking up an external wifi usb adapter (of which only theirs will work) feels like they're trying to crook me out of more $$$. Not the end of the world though, but I raise my eyebrow at that design "decision." And if they included the keyboard slider remote, the entire industry would be liking it... that would be a great market differentiator that the DVR-using public would understand.

riekl

03-30-2010, 06:02 PM

Perhaps. When there's a low-cost way to do it that's reliable and just as easy as sticking a disc into a machine and pressing play, I'll be among the first to buy it.

Have you not seen Apple TV ? Kicks Amazon's butt in terms of usability and library. Not to mention a slick interface that even my 3 year old can (unfortuanately) order from.

orangeboy

03-30-2010, 06:24 PM

Really? My understanding was that the S3 would not support blu-ray bitrates, even if the same codecs were supported at lower bitrates.

I didn't say I actually watched the pushed content, merely that I can push without pyTivo transcoding. :D

raker

03-30-2010, 07:06 PM

I'm not going to shlep over and put in a new movie like some sort of thirteenth century French serf.

BRAVO

:up:

+2 ROFL

Love the visual

matguy

03-30-2010, 07:10 PM

I'm not going to shlep over and put in a new movie like some sort of thirteenth century French serf.

Hey, I know some guys that go to great lengths and expense to reenact being a thirteenth century French surf... but they also don't shower very often already, so it wasn't a big stretch.

b3ar

03-30-2010, 07:22 PM

falcon26

03-30-2010, 07:26 PM

I get my new tivo thursday. But my dumb Mcard would be installed until sunday. Can I go threw the initial setup and download all the updates and firmware stuff without having a cable card yet?

b3ar

03-30-2010, 07:44 PM

Oh, yeah, the M-Card seems to have worked straight from Comcast. Now comes the hassle of downloading all of the guide data and channel information for the next 1 - 2 days.

brasscat

03-30-2010, 07:54 PM

More impressions: As you're probably aware, when you dig into the menus deep enough the SD interface comes up and the video mode switches. My TV, which is a late 6 series 52" Samsung sometimes can't sync the video on the switch, and I just get a black screen. I have to turn the TV off and on again to get a picture. Not good.

The new interface is indeed slow, but you can get to where you want about as fast as the previous generation (just don't wait for the whole menu page to render).

When changing channels, there's a momentary grey screen before the change. That sucks. Why?

My HD antenna doesn't work as well with this unit as it did with the TiVo HD. My signal strength is a little less on most channels.

I'm hoping this is an indexing thing - but the program guide says it's loaded to the 4th of April, but I can't find shows like 30 Rock or Community. So I'm going to wait a little longer and try again.

When in the menus, a mini video of what's currently playing displays at the upper right, but it's not really fitting exactly right in the box. Looks unpolished. Hasn't someone spotted that the cutout for the video is not matching the video itself? This is a small item, I know, but it's annoying me.

Video mode switches everywhere when you use the new interface. That slows everything down, and sometime my TV can't sync to the new mode without turning it off and on again.

So indeed, I wholeheartedly agree that the software needs polish, big time. This feels just like an early beta, not a shipping piece of software. The SD system was way more polished than the HD menu system. Whoever mandated / approved this version was ready to ship clearly smoking pipe at the time -- or has low quality standards.

Don't get me wrong, it works. But the software execution is clunky. You'll see for yourself soon enough.

TWinbrook46636

03-30-2010, 08:20 PM

My HD antenna doesn't work as well with this unit as it did with the TiVo HD. My signal strength is a little less on most channels.

Anyone else using it with OTA? Better or worse? How long does it take to scan available channels?

aaronwt

03-30-2010, 08:26 PM

That's because it can't, Blu-Ray need 5MB/sec minimum and the S3 can't come close to that, at best it does 3, 3.5 on a good day.

There are plenty of BD titles that don't come anywhere close to 5MB/sec(40mbs)

brasscat

03-30-2010, 08:42 PM

Anyone else using it with OTA? Better or worse? How long does it take to scan available channels?

Scanning OTA is very fast.

nrc

03-30-2010, 08:44 PM

Biggest first impression: Wow, is this going to be tedious to get everything updated and moved over. I've asked for it repeatedly, but I really, really want a "clone TiVo" feature to move over all of my season passes and wish lists (~60).

If you're networked and can use MRV, try transferring a show and the see if you can use "Explore this program" as a short cut to get a season pass on the new box.

ciucca

03-30-2010, 09:06 PM

After reading this thread I'm glad I didn't buy it :D

Sy-

03-30-2010, 09:14 PM

where are all these children who know how to use media centers and Tivo's for streaming, but also put peanut butter all over discs and leave them in the toaster?

:D This post made me laugh! :up:

whynot83706

03-30-2010, 09:28 PM

Just got my first Tivo....but does it really take two hours for my service to be activate?

scummybear

03-30-2010, 09:46 PM

Just got my first Tivo....but does it really take two hours for my service to be activate?

July 2006, that is a lot of research! :D

If I'm not mistaken, you can run guided setup in the mean time waiting for activation. And hopefully when it is activated, guided setup will be done and you will be good to go.

mr1581

03-30-2010, 09:49 PM

I'm just trouble getting my premium channels on the mcard that I swapped from my tivohd. Everything else is working as it should

brasscat

03-30-2010, 10:21 PM

My service only took about 25 minutes to setup, but it took another 2 hrs for the program data to index (become available) to the system.

matt@thehickmans

03-30-2010, 11:06 PM

I picked up a n M-card from the local Comcast storefront on Saturday, so I was ready when my TiVo Premier arrived today. I stuck it in the S4 before powering up and it found the card and gave me the CC setup screen. After the (unfortunately) normal amount of time on the phone with Comcast being transferred to the wrong departments, it was paired.

I was expecting hours of wait time for the download/install of the new software and guide info. But I was pleasantly surprised that it went fairly quickly.

Nor did I find the box itself to be "cheesy." I found it to be quite adequate - although might not want to stack a couple of Series one TiVos on top of it. I like the remote. It does not have the rub-off chrome like the glo. But it does have the ridging over the bottom.

Neither does the slowness of the HD menu interface seem to merit all the hue and cry, moaning, groaning, and gnashing of teeth. It could be a bit slow at times, but not enough to trigger anger on my part.

I am disappointed that there appears to be much less info when you press the info key for a program in the HD menu. I thought one of the selling points was the wealth of information (comparing it to IMDB!) Well, that part ain't there and it was disingenuous of TiVo to imply it was.

I have not been able to do any transfers to/from either my TiVo HDs or S2. I can see them listed, but the S4 reports them all to be empty. Nor can my HDs find any recording on my S4. Hopefully this will all be straightened out before too long.

My account on TiVo's web site gave the S4 the name of the HD I used for the upgrade. And the HD got a generic name. That cause me all sorts of confusion. I renamed the HD back. Maybe that needs to completely synch before the units will be able to transfer between the HDs and S4.

TiVo also seems to have problems where they now think all my TiVos are past due. I made a couple calls today and thought that got straightened up. But it looks like I will need to call again tomorrow.

I will also need a bit of time to get use to the 30sec scan and the 1 sec button press.

innocentfreak

03-30-2010, 11:20 PM

I am disappointed that there appears to be much less info when you press the info key for a program in the HD menu. I thought one of the selling points was the wealth of information (comparing it to IMDB!) Well, that part ain't there and it was disingenuous of TiVo to imply it was.

It might be due to the fact the TiVo would still be indexing. I would give it 48 hours or so and then look again to see if there is more info. Having not received mine yet, is it possible that the screen you are on is only for a quick view and there is a more detailed screen?

b_scott

03-30-2010, 11:49 PM

:D This post made me laugh! :up:

:D

kylemax

03-31-2010, 01:09 AM

Anyone else using it with OTA? Better or worse? How long does it take to scan available channels?

I would say the tuner on this isn't the best for OTA (my tv tuner is much better). I thought it would be great but reminds me of my OTA tuner on my pc. My original scan went super fast but I have a rotor and needed to do other scans and they took 30 plus minutes.

b3ar

03-31-2010, 08:01 AM

If you're networked and can use MRV, try transferring a show and the see if you can use "Explore this program" as a short cut to get a season pass on the new box.

Transfers are slow (we do a lot of HD). The fastest route is to use Tivo.com and look at the old box's recording schedule and then add the relevant season passes to the new box as the guide data becomes available. It's still pretty tedious, though.

aaronwt

03-31-2010, 08:12 AM

b3ar

03-31-2010, 08:48 AM

I just take a picture of the SP list and use that as a guide with the new box. At least it gives me a chance to remove some SPs that I don't watch anymore.

Although I must admit I'm not looking forward to setting up all the SPs again for eight boxes over the next week.

It's a similar approach. Using the website, I can get the stuff that is recorded frequently (e.g., comedy programs). Some of the more esoteric stuff, though, is where TiVo really comes in handy (e.g., shows that have a short season like some of the SyFy originals), and if those aren't available in the guide, you can't set them up as a season pass. I could set up a wishlist item, but for those, I've found them to be best for broad category items (e.g., give me everything related to bicycle racing), or for casual catch-as-catch-can stuff.