trying to understand my Series 3

[buscuitboy]

I recently got a Series 3 TiVo that I placed in a living room to replace my Series 2 (which went to a basement TV). I subscribe to Comcast and also recently upgraded to one of their digital packages. Therefore, I have 2 S-cards in my series 3 and all works good.

On my Series 2, I was able to pick recording quality for scheduling recordings and/or season passes. I did just subscribe to basic analog cable (ch2-78) with this series 2. However, I can't seem to find an area on the Series 3 that allows me to really change the recording quality when setting up a season pass.

Now, I did see a section that essentially says recording quality isn't a factor & can't be changed for digital channels with this series 3. But my real question is this; are all the analog channels 2-78 now pretty much "digital" on the series 3 now that I have 2 S-cards in it? In other words, are ALL the channels on the series 3 now considered digital? I was hoping I could maybe somehow at least get "basic" recording quality on ch2-78 (like I did with my series 2) on this series 3 and then channels above 100 would then fall under the "digital" spectrum for recording quality purposes, but maybe not.

[knuckles]

If you are recording digital channels, there is only one setting. You can't down grade.

[Thom]

The Series 2 tunes to an analog frequency, then separates the analog TV signal out, then converts the analog TV signal to digital data, then saves this digital data to the hard disk. The recording quality you select tells the TiVo how much digital data to generate when converting the analog signal to digital data. The higher the recording quality, the greater the amount of digital data generated from each second of analog TV signal.

The Series 3 tunes to an analog frequency, then separates the digital TV signal out, then saves this digital data to the hard disk. The broadcaster digitized the signal before broadcasting, so the broadcaster was the one who decided how high the quality will be.

[V7Goose]

Virtually everything is digital broadcast these days. The government has made it required by law for OTA broadcast. While there are a few exceptions, they aren't worth talking about. Cable companies can still transmit analog signals, but there is little reason they would want to do that, since it takes more bandwidth.

For your S3,the bottom line is that it will give you a choice of recording quality IF it sees an analog broadcast, but not for any digital signal. You do have one option, however, to conserve recording space - even on digital channels, HD signals take up a LOT more space than SD signals. So if you are recording something from a station that has both SD and HD channels (like any public network, and even most premium channels), if you value small size over PQ, make sure you record from the available SD channel. The difference for a two hour program will be something on the order of 2GB for SD, and around 12GB for HD (but that will vary based on the specific channel and program). Of course, the HD broadcast will be wide screen and look much better if you have an HDTV.
Goose

[buscuitboy]

OK, I know my cable system still offers analog channels 2-78 (for now at least) since that is all my Series 2 in the basement views/records as well as 2 other straight TVs with no DVRs that are directly connected to the wall jack. You mention that the Series 3 will give you a choice of recording quality IF it sees an analog broadcast, but I'm still not getting any kind of recording speed option on my Series 3 on ANY channels. Even the 2-78 that are analog and being used by the series 2. It seems like the only option I have with the Series 3 to record analog channels is to remove the S-cards so it thinks my whole cable system is straight analog (like the Series 2 is doing).

[SCSIRAID]

OK, I know my cable system still offers analog channels 2-78 (for now at least) since that is all my Series 2 in the basement views/records as well as 2 other straight TVs with no DVRs that are directly connected to the wall jack. You mention that the Series 3 will give you a choice of recording quality IF it sees an analog broadcast, but I'm still not getting any kind of recording speed option on my Series 3 on ANY channels. Even the 2-78 that are analog and being used by the series 2. It seems like the only option I have with the Series 3 to record analog channels is to remove the S-cards so it thinks my whole cable system is straight analog (like the Series 2 is doing).

Most systems offer a 'digital simulcast' of the analogs so folks with a digital box get a digital version. That is what you are seeing. Even though you may have the S3 and S2 on the same channel... they are actually tuning different sources... The S2 is recording the analog channel while the S3 is recording the 'digital copy' of the channel.

The cablecard is remapping the analog 'channel number' to the digital copy of the channel.

[jfh3]

Thom - your post is only true for channels broadcast or transmitted on the cable as analog.

To the original poster - if you can't select recording quality for a particular channel, it is a digital channel. If you can, it's analog.

[buscuitboy]

So, if I take out the two S-cards in my Series 3 and run through the setup guide again, will the Series 3 simply recognize/see the analog versions of ch2-78 (like my series 2)? Or is it still gonna see the digital version of these channels? And it's simply that the Series 2 can't see digital channels at all?

I'm on a 6 month promotional period for this digital package that cost the same as before, but was happy with just the ch2-78 lineup. After the 6 months is up, I'll probably just go back to this "basic" lineup (no cable box or cards required) and was hoping I could then also get the added benefit of maybe having 300hrs of recording time that the series 3 is suppose to offer at basic quality.

[bkdtv]

So, if I take out the two S-cards in my Series 3 and run through the setup guide again, will the Series 3 simply recognize/see the analog versions of ch2-78 (like my series 2)?It should, yes.

And it's simply that the Series 2 can't see digital channels at all?Correct.

I'm on a 6 month promotional period for this digital package that cost the same as before, but was happy with just the ch2-78 lineup. After the 6 months is up, I'll probably just go back to this "basic" lineup (no cable box or cards required) and was hoping I could then also get the added benefit of maybe having 300hrs of recording time that the series 3 is suppose to offer at basic quality.Picture quality at the basic quality level is not good at all. If you want more capacity, you might look at an internal drive upgrade.

I strongly recommend that you keep your CableCard for a small monthly fee, even if you decide to cancel your premium digital service. As long as the CableCard is installed, you'll receive the digital versions of channels 2-78 and will avoid the "gray screen" issue (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=419994#A7).

[buscuitboy]

Cool. glad to know its what I thought. Nahhh, basic is good enough for me. I use basic quality a lot on my Series 2 and its fine for my needs. I never archive anything and a lot of the stuff taped/watched is done by my kids so quality is not a big deal anyway. Stuff I record for myself is simply watched and immediately deleted after viewing so again, quality is not a hig deal.

Recording capacity is a more important factor for me. Its not the low cost of the cable cards that really matters to me, but if I keep the digital cards inserted, I won't have the option of recording at basic quality for these ch2-78 since it will see the digital versions only (with the S-cards in it). I'd just assume have the analog versions by default. If something is that important, I can always record it at "best", but I'd rather have the option either way.

I know at some point Comcast is gonna get rid of all these analog channels (except the locals; ch2-30), but until then, I'll take the good old fashion analog feed & be able to record more of them :-)

[MScottC]

There is an added benefit of maintaining the digital recordings vs the analogs. The cable system's digital signal is a much cleaner and efficient compression for the amount of storage used than any choice you make via the analog signal. You may get less storage (and I'm not sure how true even that is) but I can assure you that the image quality will be far better with the digital stream. I have an S1 in my back office hooked up to small HDTV and I have the S3 (with cablecards) on a large screen and the image quality on the S1 is awful compared to the S3. We keep the S1 around for cartoons when the grandkids come to visit, and animation looks better than any live action, simply because it's easier to compress. BTW, I have compared the Analog TiVo to the digital QAM received on the small screen TV and the QAM beats the analog TiVo hands down, so again, TiVo's compression of the analog signal just isn't that good. Yea, it was sort of the state of the art compromise 11 years ago, but now it's just plain outdated.

[buscuitboy]

Yea, I realize the analog signal is gonna be nowhere near as good as a digital feed, but again, the recording capacity is a more important factor for me. The analog feed my Series 2 has recorded has been good enough for my taste. I guess it really boils down to personal preference and my preference is capacity over quality. I'm willing to take the lower quality in order to get more storage (even if it is little more storage).

[bkdtv]

Yea, I realize the analog signal is gonna be nowhere near as good as a digital feed, but again, the recording capacity is a more important factor for me. The analog feed my Series 2 has recorded has been good enough for my taste. I guess it really boils down to personal preference and my preference is capacity over quality. I'm willing to take the lower quality in order to get more storage (even if it is little more storage).I would recommend you switch over to analog at least a week before you return the CableCard. That would give you the opportunity to change your mind if you aren't happy with the analog quality.