Dual Tuner question...

[scummybear]

OK, so I am still anxiously awaiting my TiVo Premiere. But before it gets here I wanted to know if I am going to need the m-card. I have limited basic cable, which is just OTA channels like cbs, abc, wb, and nbc stuff. When I hook my cable up to my TiVo, am I going to need an m-card in order to record two shows at once?

From different threads it appears as if I am not going to need the m-card because I don't subscribe to a digital package that Comcast offers. But I am allowed one m-card free of charge from Comcast (with one time install fee of $16). But if I don't need it, I don't want to spend the $16 especially since it appears there have been many issues with m-card installs on TiVo units.

I would go OTA with antenna but my internet package is cheaper as long as I subscribe to a cable package. So it is actually cheaper to just pay for the "what could be free" channels.

So back to my actual question, do I actually need an m-card for the dual tuner to work or is that strictly for digital channels like MTv/comedy central/Discovery type channels?

PS. I really didn't know how to word my question and explain it fully, so if any other information is needed, let me know. Thanks! :D

[gweempose]

I'm almost positive you will be able to record two analog channels simultaneously with the Premiere. The CableCARD is merely used to decrypt the digital channels as well as map them in the guide. Since you don't plan on recording any digital channels, it is not needed. I'm guessing that it is extremely rare that someone is using one of the HD capable TiVos to only record analog cable, but I could be wrong. :)

Edit: You might want to consider getting a CableCARD if all it will cost you is a one time fee of $16. This will allow you to record the HD versions of your locals, and they will look a lot better than the analog SD versions. If the TiVo will be hooked up to an HDTV, it's really a no brainer.

[vstone]

You'll likely need an mcard to get programming info on the digital OTA channnels. The Tivo may be able to find those channels, but they will likley not correspond to the published channel lineup and may even all show up as channel 0. It is possible for the cable company to assign the published channel number so that the Tivo could work without the card. However, I have not heard of anywhere where they have done so. The FCC could fix this situation, but chooses not to.

[scummybear]

You'll likely need an mcard to get programming info on the digital OTA channnels. The Tivo may be able to find those channels, but they will likley not correspond to the published channel lineup and may even all show up as channel 0.

OK. I appreciate the info. Like it said, there is no monthly charge for this, so it isn't a big deal. Just didn't know if I have to schedule the appointment or not really. Because they won't just give me the card to put in myself.

I'm guessing that it is extremely rare that someone is using one of the HD capable TiVos to only record analog cable

Well, I still get HD programming. So when I record, I still like to be able to watch it in HD.

[gweempose]

Well, I still get HD programming. So when I record, I still like to be able to watch it in HD.Then you will need a CableCARD in order for the TiVo to function as it should.

[scummybear]

Then you will need a CableCARD in order for the TiVo to function as it should.

Thank you.

[ThAbtO]

You'll likely need an mcard to get programming info on the digital OTA channnels. The Tivo may be able to find those channels, but they will likley not correspond to the published channel lineup and may even all show up as channel 0. It is possible for the cable company to assign the published channel number so that the Tivo could work without the card. However, I have not heard of anywhere where they have done so. The FCC could fix this situation, but chooses not to.

I use THD with OTA and most all digital broadcasts and NO cable cards and dual tuner functions.

[steve614]

A one time fee of $16 to future proof yourself when your cable provider goes all digital?

Get the cablecard.

[scummybear]

A one time fee of $16 to future proof yourself when your cable provider goes all digital?

Get the cablecard.

I am going to get the card, but I didn't know if I needed the card right away to take advantage of the dual tuners in the TiVo or if it was something I could schedule somewhere down the line. Not years from now, but not the day the TiVo arrives. I don't want to spend the 16 dollars on something easily done in 5 to 10 minutes, but I do plan on it. It is just a pain to set up appointments with Comcast around here that I didn't know if I should try to time it with tracking info to have it as soon as possible, or if I could set it up, use it to record two channels at once and worry about the cablecard whenever. But it appears as if I may have some issues with the guide information and channel mapping that I will try to have them scheduled to come here as soon as I get the TiVo.

Thanks for all the info/opinions. Much appreciated! :D

[greg_burns]

You'll likely need an mcard to get programming info on the digital OTA channnels. The Tivo may be able to find those channels, but they will likley not correspond to the published channel lineup and may even all show up as channel 0.

Really? If the Tivo doesn't have the correct programming info for digital OTA channels, isn't that something that could be corrected by contacting Tivo?

http://www.tivo.com/setupandsupport/contactsupport/lineup_tool.html

I don't see why you would need mcard for OTA. :confused:

[greg_burns]

Edit: You might want to consider getting a CableCARD if all it will cost you is a one time fee of $16. This will allow you to record the HD versions of your locals, and they will look a lot better than the analog SD versions. If the TiVo will be hooked up to an HDTV, it's really a no brainer.

He should be able to record the HD versions of his locals via OTA too (if they are availbable).

[scummybear]

He should be able to record the HD versions of his locals via OTA too (if they are availbable).

They are available. But it's no big deal I guess. I don't want any problems with the guide and channel mapping. So I will just try to have the card installed as soon as my TiVo arrives. That way I will be set whether I need it or not.

[ZeoTiVo]

I am going to get the card, but I didn't know if I needed the card right away to take advantage of the dual tuners in the TiVo or if it was something I could schedule somewhere down the line. Not years from now, but not the day the TiVo arrives.

You can wait to get the m-card installed
Here is how it works
many cable companies simulcast the basic channels in analog and digital. The Local channels (ones you could get OTA) are likely broadcast in Clear QAM - this means unencrypted and QAM is the modulation used but basically means digital. The digital channels will be in HD - analog in SD

so you would do guided setup (without cable card installed) on the TiVo, tell it you will get a cable card later; and say you just get the basic channels. You will find ABC say on channel 9 with guide data. It will be analog and SD.
Look higher on the 'dial' and you will find ABC in digital and perhaps HD on channel 203.8. There will be no guide data for channel 203.8 so season passes can not be used and you can only record by time and channel and now playing will list it as say 'channel203.8recording1'.
Channel 9 you can record with season passes and the like and now playing will have all the data for the show.



then at some point you can get the m-card installed and then those clear QAM channels like 203.8 will map to some channel and you will have guide data for the channel and do season pass recordings and so on.

[scummybear]

You can wait to get the m-card installed
Here is how it works
many cable companies simulcast the basic channels in analog and digital. The Local channels (ones you could get OTA) are likely broadcast in Clear QAM - this means unencrypted and QAM is the modulation used but basically means digital. The digital channels will be in HD - analog in SD

so you would do guided setup (without cable card installed) on the TiVo, tell it you will get a cable card later; and say you just get the basic channels. You will find ABC say on channel 9 with guide data. It will be analog and SD.
Look higher on the 'dial' and you will find ABC in digital and perhaps HD on channel 203.8. There will be no guide data for channel 203.8 so season passes can not be used and you can only record by time and channel and now playing will list it as say 'channel203.8recording1'.
Channel 9 you can record with season passes and the like and now playing will have all the data for the show.



then at some point you can get the m-card installed and then those clear QAM channels like 203.8 will map to some channel and you will have guide data for the channel and do season pass recordings and so on.

Thank you! That is pretty much the answer I was looking for. I wasn't quite sure I was explaining it correctly or not. :up:

[mattack]

You'll likely need an mcard to get programming info on the digital OTA channnels.

If you mean the (digital) CABLE VERSIONS of the broadcast channels, yes.

For true OTA, this is absolutely 100% false.

[t1voproof]

I too have Comcast. If I understood correctly, they are are keeping Basic 1 (OTA + handful of cable channels) in analog so you won't need a cablecard.
Here's a link to a story where I live. I bet it's the same story nationwide. http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=840633

[gweempose]

Here's a link to a story where I live ... http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=840633I found one quote from the article to be very interesting:

"... in order to ease the financial pain of the transition, Comcast will provide one "Set top" and two DTA boxes to customers free of charge."

I wonder if they will consider CableCARDS to be the same as DTAs? If so, that should technically result in a decrease in my monthly cable bill. Somehow I doubt Comcast will see it that way, though. :)

[TexasGrillChef]

OK, so I am still anxiously awaiting my TiVo Premiere. But before it gets here I wanted to know if I am going to need the m-card. I have limited basic cable, which is just OTA channels like cbs, abc, wb, and nbc stuff. When I hook my cable up to my TiVo, am I going to need an m-card in order to record two shows at once?

From different threads it appears as if I am not going to need the m-card because I don't subscribe to a digital package that Comcast offers. But I am allowed one m-card free of charge from Comcast (with one time install fee of $16). But if I don't need it, I don't want to spend the $16 especially since it appears there have been many issues with m-card installs on TiVo units.

I would go OTA with antenna but my internet package is cheaper as long as I subscribe to a cable package. So it is actually cheaper to just pay for the "what could be free" channels.

So back to my actual question, do I actually need an m-card for the dual tuner to work or is that strictly for digital channels like MTv/comedy central/Discovery type channels?

PS. I really didn't know how to word my question and explain it fully, so if any other information is needed, let me know. Thanks! :D

Doesn't matter if you need it or not. More than likely it will be the ONLY cards available from your cable company. The PRICE is the same for a S card or an M card. At least for TWC in DFW it is.

So you will more than likely get an M-card from your cable company and not have the option for S-Cards.

TGC

P.S. Keep in mind that the Cable Companies will be dropping BOTH analog cable AND Clear QAM sometimes in the next 1-3 years. Locals will always be on Clear QAM though (Required by FCC regulation). Although "Cable Only" channels will be permited to move to "NON-Clear QAM" channels as desired. Therefore in 1-3 years. Analog cable as well as Clear QAM for "Cable Only" channels will be a thing of the past.

[scummybear]

Doesn't matter if you need it or not. More than likely it will be the ONLY cards available from your cable company. The PRICE is the same for a S card or an M card. At least for TWC in DFW it is.

So you will more than likely get an M-card from your cable company and not have the option for S-Cards.

All they offer is m-card. Sorry if it read wrong, but I wasn't asking if I should get an m-card or single cablecard. Just if I needed it at all two be able to record. But that is besides the point now, ZeoTivo supplied me with the answer I needed. I am getting it installed, it was just more of a question of when I should do it really. But thanks anyway for the response. :D

[gweempose]

Therefore in 1-3 years. Analog cable as well as Clear QAM for "Cable Only" channels will be a thing of the past.Do you really think they are going to drop the analog locals that soon? I bet there is still a huge percentage of subscribers who are on basic packages and continue to use their trusty old VCRs to record their shows. I could be way off base, but I wouldn't think the cable companies would want to alienate those customers. I guess it may depend on how much bandwidth they have available in a particular market.

[TexasGrillChef]

Do you really think they are going to drop the analog locals that soon? I bet there is still a huge percentage of subscribers who are on basic packages and continue to use their trusty old VCRs to record their shows. I could be way off base, but I wouldn't think the cable companies would want to alienate those customers. I guess it may depend on how much bandwidth they have available in a particular market.

Some cable companies in some cities allready have. Consider Verizon Fios as well. They NEVER offered analog service at all! Some areas of the country will hold onto analog probably for another 2 or 3 years. Other areas will be dropping it THIS year.

If they do drop Analog, the cost of the first "box" will be provided free. OR... at a very low price. Example... Basic cable might be $20 including free box, or $15 for basic cable and $5 for the box. (either way $20) As more and more people get HDTV's and the saturation of HDTV's becomes more common place, you will start to see more areas dropping analog.

You are correct in alot has to do with bandwidth as well. They also look at what percentage of the subscriber service base is on analog. If it's less than 10% then I would say you can almost garuntee that they will be dropping analog soon. An area where they have 90% of their subscribers on analog basic cable then of course they won't be dropping analog anytime soon. Common sense dictates there.

Just keep in mind that Cable companies are out to make money. It's about the bottom line. And while they might lose some customers over it. If they are the only cable service in the area a subscriber won't have much of a choice. Example.. like me.. I have TWC because I have too. Verizon isn't in my area and I have to many trees for DirecTV or Dish to work correctly.

TGC

[gweempose]

Personally, I can't wait until they completely drop analog where I live. There is nothing more annoying than when someone comes over, turns on the TV, and puts on the analog version of a station that I receive in HD. Even though I have removed all of the SD duplicates from the guide, it still doesn't stop people from punching in the station numbers manually. It sure would be helpful if you could program the TiVo to automatically map these manual requests to their HD counterparts.

[Jonathan_S]

Some cable companies in some cities allready have. Consider Verizon Fios as well. They NEVER offered analog service at all! Actually some of the early cities to get FIOS TV did get analog channels.

I've got the a couple of the free for life digital converter boxess they offered existing customers when they turned off analog service in the northern viginia area.

[vstone]

I use THD with OTA and most all digital broadcasts and NO cable cards and dual tuner functions.I;m talking about getting rthe broadcast channels via cable. That sounds like what he wants to do.

Cable cards are not needed for program information for channels received via an antenna.

[vstone]

I too have Comcast. If I understood correctly, they are are keeping Basic 1 (OTA + handful of cable channels) in analog so you won't need a cablecard.
Here's a link to a story where I live. I bet it's the same story nationwide. http://www.kare11.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=840633Its the same in Comcast's Central/SWVA system, but I think a few do it differently.

[vstone]

Do you really think they are going to drop the analog locals that soon? I bet there is still a huge percentage of subscribers who are on basic packages and continue to use their trusty old VCRs to record their shows. I could be way off base, but I wouldn't think the cable companies would want to alienate those customers. I guess it may depend on how much bandwidth they have available in a particular market.Cable companies are required to support analog TV sets thru FEB 2012. They can actually provide an analog signal or they can provide a digital box to feed your analog TV. They can, but don't have to, charge for the box. They are likely doing calculations on when it will be profitable shut off analog and will do so when it suits them.

[gastrof]

In our area and most others I've heard about, Comcast is going to an OTA only analog lineup. Maybe a few other channels like local access and such, but nothing like Discovery, Disney, SyFy, TNT, etc.

Those are only on the digital channels.

Analog is pretty much just the local OTAs, and it's that way with most Comcast providers.

[greensky]

Personally, I can't wait until they completely drop analog where I live.

I hope they don't. I only have cable because my OTA isn't good enough. I can get basic analog for half of what basic digital costs. Does HD OTA work better than analog OTA? I've never actually tried a HD antenna. My analog signal was pretty poor.

[ThAbtO]

I hope they don't. I only have cable because my OTA isn't good enough. I can get basic analog for half of what basic digital costs. Does HD OTA work better than analog OTA? I've never actually tried a HD antenna. My analog signal was pretty poor.

Most if not all if analog OTA has been shutdown in the US switching over to digital signals (minus the low-powered stations).

I only use OTA and I get 40 channels as opposed to 10 of the old analog channels, using only a regular rooftop antenna. The big plus is that its all free. I get HD picture as well. Analog OTA is not HD and only 4:3.

Some say OTA HD have better picture then Cable HD.

If you are having poor signals, you should try an amplifier.

Not all Tivos are able to receive OTA so simply. Series 2 (not including the dual tuner model) needs a digital converter box. The dual tuner model is not made for OTA, only cable or satellite.
The Series 3 (original with front display, HD, HD XL), upcoming Series 4 Premiere, can receive OTA without a digital converter box, AND cable (digital cable with cable cards).

[gweempose]

Does HD OTA work better than analog OTA? I've never actually tried a HD antenna. My analog signal was pretty poor.If you are considering delving into OTA, I strongly recommend you check out AntennaWeb.org:

http://www.antennaweb.org/aw/welcome.aspx

The site is chock full of helpful information. Most importantly, there is a highly sophisticated antenna selection tool that automatically determines the proper type of antenna based on your location, signal strength, and other geographical data.

[scummybear]

I hope they don't. I only have cable because my OTA isn't good enough. I can get basic analog for half of what basic digital costs. Does HD OTA work better than analog OTA? I've never actually tried a HD antenna. My analog signal was pretty poor.

There is no special "HD" antenna. If you are getting poor signal, you might need to play with the antenna some or try putting it on your roof, or in your attic. Sometimes indoor antennas just don't have the "oomph" you need.