is the $199 lifetime going to get me MSD?

[MichaelK]

I have a 6+ year old S2 with lifetime on my account that allows me to get MSD on two S3's I have.

I am debating replacing the lifetime S2 with a new premiere with the $199 lifetime deal.

If I stop using the S2 and it doesn't call in for 6 months. Is my MSD going to go bye bye on one of the S3's in 7 months?

at the moment I'm on the fence- but if I have to drag my S2 out every 5 months to keep my MSD on both the S3's than it's one more reason not to be bothered.

I've seen all sorts of confused posts on the issue- anyone see an answer in writing someplace?

[scandia101]

My educated guess based on the upgrade offer is that the lifetime will be a qualifier for MSD.
Why? Because the current full price of Product Lifetime Service is $399 and the offer is for $200 dollars off for which they bill $199. They can't say that it's $200 off of regular PLS and then say that it's only an MSD rate.

[orangeboy]

I have a 6+ year old S2 with lifetime on my account that allows me to get MSD on two S3's I have.

I am debating replacing the lifetime S2 with a new premiere with the $199 lifetime deal.

If I stop using the S2 and it doesn't call in for 6 months. Is my MSD going to go bye bye on one of the S3's in 7 months?

at the moment I'm on the fence- but if I have to drag my S2 out every 5 months to keep my MSD on both the S3's than it's one more reason not to be bothered.

I've seen all sorts of confused posts on the issue- anyone see an answer in writing someplace?

It is my understanding (now) that a fully paid PLS (discounted or otherwise) qualifies as a eligible subscription. Prior to this post (http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7810059#post7810059), my mistaken understanding was a full price PLS was required. I quoted the MSD policy relating to PLS a few posts further in that linked thread.

[dswallow]

I think some people are naturally confused and they infect others with it.


I've not seen anything that makes any issue of it, confusing or not. What governs your access to MSD pricing is the MSD agreement. It has not changed since May 2008:

https://www3.tivo.com/abouttivo/policies/tivomsd_tcs_windowpopup.html

[MichaelK]

I think some people are naturally confused and they infect others with it.


I've not seen anything that makes any issue of it, confusing or not. What governs your access to MSD pricing is the MSD agreement. It has not changed since May 2008:

https://www3.tivo.com/abouttivo/policies/tivomsd_tcs_windowpopup.html

thanks Doug-

that's the answer in writing i was looking for.

Orangeboy summed it up for those who dont want to follow the link. FULLY PAID is the magic word for lifetime- says nothing about discounted or not.

[dyanni]

I typed this stupid long post and then realized Doug - as usual - had provided the appropriate answer. Thank goodness for the edit button.

[yukit]

I have a 6+ year old S2 with lifetime on my account that allows me to get MSD on two S3's I have.

I am debating replacing the lifetime S2 with a new premiere with the $199 lifetime deal.

If I stop using the S2 and it doesn't call in for 6 months. Is my MSD going to go bye bye on one of the S3's in 7 months?


I am in the similar situation.

I am guessing that if I let my S2 lapse, I would lose the grandfathered MSD price, reverting to the current MSD price ($9.95?) for the other units.

[DrewTivo]

thanks Doug-

that's the answer in writing i was looking for.

Orangeboy summed it up for those who dont want to follow the link. FULLY PAID is the magic word for lifetime- says nothing about discounted or not.

While that is my reading of this as well, I can say that about a year ago Tivo sought to take away my $6.95 grandfathered rate because it was based on a $299 lifetime (MSD price) Tivo, after I cancelled a third unit that had been on a one-year contract. They said that I could not receive two MSD rates (one lifetime and one month to month).

After some discussion, they ultimately agreed to restore the $6.95 rate. They said it was a courtesy. I thought it was consistent with the terms of the MSD eligibility. Anyway, the result was fine although having the argument was not very pleasant.

[MichaelK]

that's the unfortunate issue I was afraid of...

[DrewTivo]

that's the unfortunate issue I was afraid of...

There is some difference between your situation and mine--in your case it's a transfer/upgrade price for lifetime. Mine was a discounted lifetime because of the multi-service discount.

Now, I don't see anything in the MSD terms that creates a distinction. In either case you're paying for a lifetime subscription that is discounted based on your existing subscriptions. Nothing in the MSD terms suggest that receiving a discount means that you're not eligible to use that sub. as a basis for MSDs.

[scandia101]

3. Product Lifetime Service. If you are the registered account holder of a Product Lifetime Service plan, your Product Lifetime Service must be fully paid and in good standing. Your TiVo DVR to which the Product Lifetime Service is attached must have called into the TiVo service within the last 180 days to remain eligible for the MULTI-SERVICE DISCOUNT.

People are confusing "fully paid" with you have to pay full price.
"Fully paid" as used in the agreement only means that you don't owe any money for your PLS.

Their offer is non-MSD PLS for $199. If you pay $199, you have a fully paid PLS and any additional Tivos qualify for MSD.

[scandia101]

There is some difference between your situation and mine--in your case it's a transfer/upgrade price for lifetime. Mine was a discounted lifetime because of the multi-service discount.

Now, I don't see anything in the MSD terms that creates a distinction. In either case you're paying for a lifetime subscription that is discounted based on your existing subscriptions. Nothing in the MSD terms suggest that receiving a discount means that you're not eligible to use that sub. as a basis for MSDs.
Sure it does.
From the same page that dswallow linked to
Monthly, annual or prepaid service subscription. If you are the registered account holder of a paid prepaid, monthly or annual service plan, your subscription must be un-cancelled and in good standing, either paid on a monthly, annual, or prepaid basis. Promotional TiVo service subscriptions (e.g. free or discounted TiVo service rates), unless otherwise designated in the terms and conditions for such promotional subscriptions, are not eligible to be Qualifying Subscriptions.

After finding that gem, I guess that's what may make me wrong about the PLS upgrade offer being a qualifier for MSD.

[orangeboy]

Sure it does.
From the same page that dswallow linked to


After finding that gem, I guess that's what may make me wrong about the PLS upgrade offer being a qualifier for MSD.

I don't believe you would be wrong because PLS is specifically identified in it's own section of the policy.

[DrewTivo]

Sure it does.
From the same page that dswallow linked to

Monthly, annual or prepaid service subscription. If you are the registered account holder of a paid prepaid, monthly or annual service plan, your subscription must be un-cancelled and in good standing, either paid on a monthly, annual, or prepaid basis. Promotional TiVo service subscriptions (e.g. free or discounted TiVo service rates), unless otherwise designated in the terms and conditions for such promotional subscriptions, are not eligible to be Qualifying Subscriptions.

After finding that gem, I guess that's what may make me wrong about the PLS upgrade offer being a qualifier for MSD.

That would work better for Tivo's argument if there weren't a separate section immediately following it discussing product lifetime subscriptions. The paragraph quoted above relates to "monthly, annual, or prepaid subscriptions". In other words, if you get a discount on your first subscription (e.g., retention), you can't parlay that into an MSD for a second unit. But none of that applies to PLS, which is handled in the next paragraph, and makes no distinction regarding the price paid for the PLS.

[meowth]

i just had a chat with a tivo csr. according to her a new premier box ordered using the %50 off pls would NOT be a qualifying box in order to get a msd on other boxes.



Customer : my name is ____. i currently have 4 tivo's on my account. 1 at 12.95, 2 at 6.95 monthly and then 1 more that has a lifetime on it. if i order the premier upgrade on the lifetime unit will i be able to drop the 12.95 unit and still qualify for the 2 msd units?
Sarah: Thank you, ____! Let me go ahead and pull up your account.
[clip]
Sarah: You're are wanting to upgrade the one that is full price for $12.95 per month right?
Customer : i would order the upgrade from the tivohd with lifetime already on it. that would make the premier 299 with a 50% discount on lifetime for the new premier of 199. would that new premier box with lifetime on it be a qualifying box for the rest of my tivos to get the msd?
Customer : the 12.95 box would be changed to the msd rate of 9.95? and the new premier box would be the qualifying box?
Sarah: You would have to have one TiVo on the account that you are paying full price for at all time and is connected all the time to qualify you for the discount on the service for other TiVo's.
Customer : so you are saying the new premier box with the pls discount offered would not be a qualifying box?
Sarah: Correct, you would have to have one paying full price. So if you paid full price for the Lifetime on one of the TiVo's that would then be your qualifying TiVo.

[dswallow]

i just had a chat with a tivo csr. according to her a new premier box ordered using the %50 off pls would NOT be a qualifying box in order to get a msd on other boxes.



Customer : my name is ____. i currently have 4 tivo's on my account. 1 at 12.95, 2 at 6.95 monthly and then 1 more that has a lifetime on it. if i order the premier upgrade on the lifetime unit will i be able to drop the 12.95 unit and still qualify for the 2 msd units?
Sarah: Thank you, ____! Let me go ahead and pull up your account.
[clip]
Sarah: You're are wanting to upgrade the one that is full price for $12.95 per month right?
Customer : i would order the upgrade from the tivohd with lifetime already on it. that would make the premier 299 with a 50% discount on lifetime for the new premier of 199. would that new premier box with lifetime on it be a qualifying box for the rest of my tivos to get the msd?
Customer : the 12.95 box would be changed to the msd rate of 9.95? and the new premier box would be the qualifying box?
Sarah: You would have to have one TiVo on the account that you are paying full price for at all time and is connected all the time to qualify you for the discount on the service for other TiVo's.
Customer : so you are saying the new premier box with the pls discount offered would not be a qualifying box?
Sarah: Correct, you would have to have one paying full price. So if you paid full price for the Lifetime on one of the TiVo's that would then be your qualifying TiVo.

The CSR is wrong.

Why do you have a $12.95/month unit now, if you have lifetime on another unit on your account? Is that purchased under some program where you were required to buy service at a specific rate for some initial period for it?

[gweempose]

I just had a chat with a tivo csr. According to her, a new premier box ordered using the 50% off pls would NOT be a qualifying box in order to get an msd on other boxes ...This defies all logic. :confused:

[DrewTivo]

This defies all logic. :confused:


It does, and defies the MSD terms, but it is consistent with what I was told. They apparently have different tiers of PLS, only the top tier of which (full price) qualifies as the base unit for MSD.

I wonder if one sold such a PLS unit to someone else what would happen to them.

[orangeboy]

It does, and defies the MSD terms, but it is consistent with what I was told. They apparently have different tiers of PLS, only the top tier of which (full price) qualifies as the base unit for MSD.

I wonder if one sold such a PLS unit to someone else what would happen to them.

I imagine the Service level for the DVR is associated with the TCD. If it was an "unqualified" PLS (if such an entity exists), TiVo should be able to track it, regardless of owner.

[meowth]

The CSR is wrong.

Why do you have a $12.95/month unit now, if you have lifetime on another unit on your account? Is that purchased under some program where you were required to buy service at a specific rate for some initial period for it?

The lifetime unit was purchased using the msd rate of $299. It was my 5th tivo at the time. I have since retired 2 of the older s2 units i had and replaced them with another tivohd thats getting the grandfathered $6.95 rate.

According to what the csr told me I need to pay the full $399 pls fee when upgrading to the premier from the unit that is the $12.95 monthly. And in fact that is what comes up when doing the preorder for that machine.

[MichaelK]

...
According to what the csr told me I need to pay the full $399 pls fee when upgrading to the premier from the unit that is the $12.95 monthly. And in fact that is what comes up when doing the preorder for that machine.

units on monthly that get "upgraded" get the % off the box discount

units "upgraded" from lifetime get the cheap lifetime discount.

What option does the website give you to "upgrade" one of your lifetime boxes? (you still keep the lifetime on the old box so there's apparently no reason not to do that if it's a better $ deal for you)

if it allows you to "upgrade" one of your lifetime boxes and get 199 lifetime- the 64 thousand dollar question becomes what happens if you then shut off the 12.99 box? Will they consider the "new via upgrade" lifetime as the primary box (and let you keep the 6.95 grandfather) or not (and charge you full price on one of the 6.95's) ? that's the magic question to me- seems the policy is clear it should count but as posted above they dont seem to always apply it that way.

[dswallow]

The lifetime unit was purchased using the msd rate of $299. It was my 5th tivo at the time. I have since retired 2 of the older s2 units i had and replaced them with another tivohd thats getting the grandfathered $6.95 rate.

According to what the csr told me I need to pay the full $399 pls fee when upgrading to the premier from the unit that is the $12.95 monthly. And in fact that is what comes up when doing the preorder for that machine.

Your $12.95/month rate is a one year commitment rate. If during that time you get a lifetime unit, even at full price, you still must wait out the remainder of that 12 month commitment at $12.95/month on that unit. But after that's over, that unit would become eligible for the MSD rates since there would be a lifetime unit on the account at the time a new plan would be required.

[meowth]

units on monthly that get "upgraded" get the % off the box discount

units "upgraded" from lifetime get the cheap lifetime discount.

What option does the website give you to "upgrade" one of your lifetime boxes? (you still keep the lifetime on the old box so there's apparently no reason not to do that if it's a better $ deal for you)

if it allows you to "upgrade" one of your lifetime boxes and get 199 lifetime- the 64 thousand dollar question becomes what happens if you then shut off the 12.99 box? Will they consider the "new via upgrade" lifetime as the primary box (and let you keep the 6.95 grandfather) or not (and charge you full price on one of the 6.95's) ? that's the magic question to me- seems the policy is clear it should count but as posted above they dont seem to always apply it that way.


The way it was told to me implied that in order to not pay the 12.95 monthly I would have to buy the lifetime at the $399 price. Otherwise I would lose the grandfathered 6.95 rate. And to make matters worse the 2nd 6.95 box is coming to the end of its 3yr term and will change to 9.95 at the end of the month. So I am intending to get another hd capable box to replace the 12.95 s2 box and then retire the soon to be 9.95 s2 box completely. The 12.95 and the first 6.95 box are all just monthly boxes. No terms for them.

sigh... They just have to make this difficult... and more expensive. lol.

forgot to add...

When I did the upgrade from them lifetimed box it does offer the $199 lifetime price but that would not change the $12.95 fee down to the msd price and that is what I really want to stop.