No new GUI for my Series 3 means no more money for Tivo

[trausch]

One of the reviews on Engadget said the new GUI is for the new series 4 only. I have three Tivos, what the hell if my monthly subscription for if I can't even get the new GUI?

Perhaps it is time to switch back to Direct TV again.

[Johnwashere]

Will my TiVo HD or Series3 have access to this new UI? Can I download it to my current TiVo?

* No, the new HD interface is only available on TiVo Series4 platforms
* Because the Series4 TiVo DVR runs on a new platform, the HD interface cannot perform seamlessly on Series3 hardware, and therefore would not run an optimum user experience, much the same way not all Series3 features are available on the Series2 platform

[bkdtv]

Unfortunately, older TiVos don't have the processing power to run the GUI as implemented on the Premiere.

[trausch]

Unfortunately, older TiVos don't have the processing power to run the GUI as implemented on the Premiere.

Excrement from a male cow. Flash is a very thin client. It runs on just about anything. My Series 3 should be able to handle it just fine. This is nothing but a cash grab for TIVO. For what we pay for service, we should absolutely get the new GUI.

It is Tivo's choice whether or not they give us the upgrade, but continuing my service with TIVo is my choice.

[tootal2]

your s3 does not have the power for the hdui.

[LoadStar]

Excrement from a male cow. Flash is a very thin client. It runs on just about anything. My Series 3 should be able to handle it just fine. This is nothing but a cash grab for TIVO. For what we pay for service, we should absolutely get the new GUI.

It is Tivo's choice whether or not they give us the upgrade, but continuing my service with TIVo is my choice.

Do you realize just how pathetically wimpy the 300 MHz MIPS processor at the heart of the SOC in the TiVo S3 is?

[moyekj]

I'm actually hoping for pretty much the opposite of the OP. I hope that the Premiere offers a way to switch back to the "classic" UI without all the bloated graphics so that one can get the same UI we have now but at much improved speeds. Personally I try and minimize use of UI so the most interesting thing about Premiere to me is the potential for much better UI speed (in classic mode, not the bloatware being demoed) as well as much improved TTG & MRV speeds.

[jwcooper]

I don't get the reasoning on some of these "oh noes, my series 3 won't get the new UI!".

How long should they reasonably keep upgrading these five year old boxes? At some point the hardware just can't keep, and they need to upgrade it. This is what they've done with the Premiere. It's like buying a third generation iPod, and complaining when you don't get the features of the iPod Touch. Or even like buying an Xbox and complaining that the features of the Xbox 360 aren't included in the original Xbox.

The Series 3 is already sluggish with the existing "Legacy UI". There is no way it could possibly run a flash UI. The current UI is likely using native linux toolkits such as GTK or QT (just a guess). The choice to go to Flash was likely due to the reduced development time to add new components.

Also, I'm guessing the Flash UI is hardware accelerated now, using the new chips from Broadcom. The old Series 3 likely doesn't have the chip necessary to do this (another assumption).

[dtremit]

The only reason the S3/HD doesn't have the processing power for the new UI is that they coded it in bloatware. The OP's point remains: what are S3/HD users getting for their subscription?

TiVo has added nothing of value to the S3 platform in two years, save for Netflix -- which has been added at no cost to other platforms. Guide data is available for free on other platforms; that makes it zero added value, to my thinking. And TiVo is loading more and more ads on the box. So, we are paying $13 a month for ads.

[dtremit]

It's like buying a third generation iPod, and complaining when you don't get the features of the iPod Touch. Or even like buying an Xbox and complaining that the features of the Xbox 360 aren't included in the original Xbox.

My old iPod doesn't stop working if I don't pay Apple $13 a month.

[MichaelK]

I thought about this last night- about how people with curent tivo’s are pissed there is a new one coming out with new software.

Don’t any of these people have smartphones?

I mean I plunk down 200-300 bucks every couple years for a new toy from my carrier. And sure enough a few months later there’s a new model they carry with better software that I can’t get. I pay my wireless provider a boatload more than tivo each month. And yet until the advent of android (and I guess the iphone for ATT customers), getting regular software updates was a nightmare- if they occurred at all.

The S3/THD platform is like 3+ years old and people expect them to get upgraded forever. The S2 platform might be like 7+ years old. I know some of the models are just a couple years old but they were basically just hardware refreshes. I just don’t know that that is reasonable to expect upgrades forever.

Tivo could probably do a better job of tossing the people that bough THD’s in the past few months a little something extra. I’m pretty impressed by the upgrade offers for those of us who have had the boxes for a long time and have gotten out ‘fair share’ out of them. But then again, Verizon released the Droid in like November, it’s now march and they are about to drop the Nexus, If I want a nexus I have to suck it up with the droid for another year and a half till my new any two is up. (or pay out the nose)

[StotheK]

Here's the problem I have with the notion that HD users should get over it because the HD platform is a five year old product:

Yes, they came out 5 years ago, I get that. But, that doesn't mean everyone has a 5 year old TiVo HD. I bought my last one for Christmas, I have a box that's a couple months old and now it's being orphaned.

That's a little bit unfriendly to the average consumer, isn't it?

[chrishicks]

As long as my S3's keep working as they do now I could seriously care less what the GUI looks like(I actually like the current look). The entire extent of my usage consists of hitting my To Do List to check on recordings and hitting my Now Playing List to watch the recorded stuff. I think I've used Netflix maybe twice(I prefer the 360 for that) and I may have used Amazon once just to try it out. The current search is just fine with me as well as I don't need anything fancy for that either.

[moyekj]

Finally some good news. From TiVo FAQ:
http://www.tivo.com/buytivo/faqs/about-premiere/index.html
Can I keep the classic UI if I want?

Yes. The classic TiVo interface we've used all of these years is available. Customers will be able to choose between the two "menuing" systems, although not all features will necessarily be supported in the classic menus.

[heySkippy]

I must admit, I'm feeling a little abandoned.

And I'm a long-time Apple user, so if this stings it must really be bad.

[MickeS]

There are always whiners who think they are owed something. If you want the new UI, buy a new TiVo.

[DancnDude]

I think the reason people are upset by the UI is that TiVo Search Beta has been running on the Series 3/HD units for a year. Now we're being told they won't run on Series 3/HD.

Yes, I know the beta was running in HME and not in the new Flash-based interface but it still was working on the S3. Now it feels like we did all the beta testing for them on our boxes, thinking we'd be getting that update after beta but now we need to spend a lot of $ to get it.

[oosik77]

My old iPod doesn't stop working if I don't pay Apple $13 a month.

Apple isn't providing you with a programming schedule.

[janry]

I'm actually hoping for pretty much the opposite of the OP. I hope that the Premiere offers a way to switch back to the "classic" UI without all the bloated graphics so that one can get the same UI we have now but at much improved speeds. Personally I try and minimize use of UI so the most interesting thing about Premiere to me is the potential for much better UI speed (in classic mode, not the bloatware being demoed) as well as much improved TTG & MRV speeds.

This.

Also, the new interface looks like advertising space. The first time TiVo puts an ad on one, watch the threads start up.

[MickeS]

Have you seen the complaints about the TiVo Search sluggishness? I didn't mind, but if that is any indication, people would HATE this new UI on the S3/HD hardware. And then probably some of the same people here that complain that they don't get the HDUI would complain that it doesn't work good on their TiVos... since it's designed with hardware acceleration in mind (apparently) it makes perfect sense not to push it to older boxes.

[schwinn]

Finally some good news. From TiVo FAQ:
http://www.tivo.com/buytivo/faqs/about-premiere/index.html

That's the best thing I've heard about the Premier so far. I, too, would prefer the old interface if it was faster. The TivoHD interface is already quite a bit slower than my ancient S1... and the new Premier interface looks even worse (based on the Wifi video from Engadget, I'll admit).

[MichaelK]

Here's the problem I have with the notion that HD users should get over it because the HD platform is a five year old product:

Yes, they came out 5 years ago, I get that. But, that doesn't mean everyone has a 5 year old TiVo HD. I bought my last one for Christmas, I have a box that's a couple months old and now it's being orphaned.

That's a little bit unfriendly to the average consumer, isn't it?

agreed it blows for the new folks like yourself- but they have to draw the line someplace.

What would you think is reasonable- they stopped adding features after YOU owed it one year? Well some poor schlub would have bought it 11 months into your year and he would be beat with a one month old box.

[DancnDude]

TiVo in the past has supported both platforms with software updates for some time before stopping support on the older one.

[MichaelK]

TiVo in the past has supported both platforms with software updates for some time before stopping support on the older one.

so far they said the S3's get the streaming radio. And I think Dave Zatz said he heard the new 30 second "scan" was getting sent to the S3's also.

[ZeoTiVo]

Here's the problem I have with the notion that HD users should get over it because the HD platform is a five year old product:

Yes, they came out 5 years ago, I get that. But, that doesn't mean everyone has a 5 year old TiVo HD. I bought my last one for Christmas, I have a box that's a couple months old and now it's being orphaned.

That's a little bit unfriendly to the average consumer, isn't it?


happens all the time.

The new UI has flash in it - the flash is there so that TiVo can ink deals with 3rd parties who are doing flash for TV set widgets already. Flash is where all the business is, plain and simple.

The new premiere has a newer chip set that can do the flash in hardware seperate from the CPU and thus avoid the bloatware problems. The older design of the TiVo HD and the S3 do not have those newer chipsets and from what TiVo says doing the flash with just the CPU in these TiVo boxes simply does not cut it.

so the benefit of future business deals with Flash won out over providing an HD UI to older boxes. This happens in business all the time. Heck Apple will not support flash on the iPad because the iPad was not designed with the horse power or chipset to run Flash - it was a business decision for them as well.

[doopstr]

Look at that, my S3 still does what it did yesterday. So does my S1.

[TerpBE]

I just wish Tivo would put a little effort into making the S3/HD faster and more efficient. For example, if I go to the season pass manager and delete a season pass for something that has no upcoming showings, there is NO REASON it should take 30 seconds. It should take less than a second ("Any upcoming showings? Nope! Delete."). That's just poor programming.

[bkdtv]

I just wish Tivo would put a little effort into making the S3/HD faster and more efficient. For example, if I go to the season pass manager and delete a season pass for something that has no upcoming showings, there is NO REASON it should take 30 seconds. It should take less than a second ("Any upcoming showings? Nope! Delete."). That's just poor programming.The code for that operation on the TiVo Series3 is already highly optimized. TiVo significantly reduced the time required for season pass priority changes since release; there was a time when such changes regularly took several minutes, but now most are done in 15-35 seconds.

TiVo could eliminate that delay if it were to perform the processing in the background over a much longer period of time, but that carries tradeoffs of its own. DirecTV does that with its own DVRs, but it can take 30-60 minutes or longer before priority changes take effect. That is frustrating if you're trying to change the priority for a show that is about to start.

[jwcooper]

Look at that, my S3 still does what it did yesterday. So does my S1.

This is a great point. It's not like TiVo is shutting off all these S3 boxes in April, and forcing you to upgrade. Not only that, it looks like the S3/HD owners are actually getting new features.

[shrike4242]

How about they retro-engineer the "fuel gauge" display into the existing S3/HD UI? That's about the only thing from the new UI that I really wanted, and I can't imagine that would be really that hard to add into the mix and bring the S3/HD to its knees.

[Bierboy]

As long as my S3's keep working as they do now I could seriously care less what the GUI looks like(I actually like the current look). The entire extent of my usage consists of hitting my To Do List to check on recordings and hitting my Now Playing List to watch the recorded stuff. I think I've used Netflix maybe twice(I prefer the 360 for that) and I may have used Amazon once just to try it out. The current search is just fine with me as well as I don't need anything fancy for that either.

This....I also could care less about an HD user interface. Bunch of hooey about nothing other than a pretty face and a little more real estate.

[ZildjianKX]

The Op's point is still valid. Monthly fees are supposed to cover software updates, etc. If they are dropping the platform, you're getting less bang for your buck out of the monthly fees.

[trausch]

Where I work we have a site license for some software. We pay an annual subscription. With the annual subscription we always are getting the latest version of the software.

If they will stop updating the software and adding features to the S3 units, why do I need to pay the subscription fee for all three units? As someone already pointed out, the guide data is free.

This just seems like a pure cash grab from Tivo.

[chrishicks]

Did I miss a post where Tivo said the older units are being 100% abandoned?

[obsidian]

Excrement from a male cow. Flash is a very thin client. It runs on just about anything. My Series 3 should be able to handle it just fine.

Flash is far from a "thin" client. It actually requires quite a bit of processing power the S3 lacks. Haven't you tried the beta search? It runs terrible.

[MickeS]

This....I also could care less about an HD user interface. Bunch of hooey about nothing other than a pretty face and a little more real estate.

I think for existing users that were fine with the old UI for the most part (like you and me :)), it's not a big deal. But TiVo HAD to do this if they wanted to compete. While it might not matter to us, they might be competitive with a new UI, because that's what people see.

[CrispyCritter]

Did I miss a post where Tivo said the older units are being 100% abandoned?
Nope!

In fact, there have been multiple reports that some features which require an update will be made available for the S3 (eg wireless N).

[MichaelK]

I find it funny that a good portion of people say the new box is a pointless you so there's no reason to upgrade while at the same time another sizable portion is pissed this "yawner" isn't getting ported over to the S3.

Maybe you guys should get in a steel cage match to decide which is it?

[WhiskeyTango]

I find it funny that a good portion of people say the new box is a pointless you so there's no reason to upgrade while at the same time another sizable portion is pissed this "yawner" isn't getting ported over to the S3.

Maybe you guys should get in a steel cage match to decide which is it?

I think the problem is that these 'upgrades' seem like stuff that should've/could've been done through a software update on the S3 a long time ago.

[mr.unnatural]

News Flash for those that aren't aware of this but Tivo earns their profits from selling you the Tivo service, not the Tivo box. Tivo updates the software on existing boxes to fix bugs and add new features that will hopefully attract new subscribers. When the current boxes can't be upgraded any further to attract new subscribers or if new delivery methods become available (i.e., digital cable and FIOS), that's when Tivo introduces new models.

FYI - your monthly fee only pays for the Tivo features. It's kind of like the vibrating bed in your hotel room. It stops working when you stop feeeding it quarters

[WhiskeyTango]

Anyone have any idea if Tivo will address known problems with the S3 or just stop supporting it and focus on the S4?

[MickeS]

Anyone have any idea if Tivo will address known problems with the S3 or just stop supporting it and focus on the S4?

Hope I'm wrong though, but some bugs have now been in TiVo for years... if they didn't fix it before, I doubt they are interested now...

guess we'll find out but, I fear that if they haven't addressed them yet, they might be even less inclined to do so if there is a new model available that doesn't have these bugs. That's usually how CE companies operate it seems. :(

[ZeoTiVo]

This just seems like a pure cash grab from Tivo.

well how about you find the TOS that states the monthly fee is for software updates and not for service.

I am getting a chuckle out of your single minded pursuit to try and label some for profit business as doing things to get revenue. Especially when you seem to have no overall idea how TiVo inc. business model works. Quite amusing indeed.


Frankly TiVo has introduced a significant danger of loosing more subs since people have to pay out to get the new UI so they may as well look at other options as well.

Overall though - I think people are just beining to understand how significantly better this new UI is and I for one will likely be upgrading an S2 I still have in service and getting in on all the cool new pieces of this Flash UI.

[MichaelK]

I think the problem is that these 'upgrades' seem like stuff that should've/could've been done through a software update on the S3 a long time ago.

I actually think its more about getting the platform in people's hands so they can do more later.

I actually think it's a good nice gradual change. The S3 folks aren't really missing any great features but now people know in time there will be new things and they can't say "I just bought my Tivo HD and today they added comcast vod on the premier- I'm pissed"- now it will be more like "I bought my Tivo HD 20 months ago and now today they added comcast vod so i guess I should go finally upgrade"

(insert whatever neat future feature you want instead of VOD)

[ADent]

All TiVo's pay the same rate. My S1 doesn't even have folders/groups and they didn't even really fix the daylight savings time change for S1 SAs (though they did for S1 DTiVo). Yet the monthly rate is the same as all others.

So don't expect the S3s to get a discount.

[michifan]

I bought my TIVOs in December and while I don't expect to get new product functionality in my HD, the $100 a year I have paid for should include software updates (just like Microsoft and Apple do for its DOS).


As far as their business model, it seems to be based on selling service, not equipment. So irritating the base customers and giving them a reason to look outside of TIVO isn't something that they should be doing.


well how about you find the TOS that states the monthly fee is for software updates and not for service.

I am getting a chuckle out of your single minded pursuit to try and label some for profit business as doing things to get revenue. Especially when you seem to have no overall idea how TiVo inc. business model works. Quite amusing indeed.

[rla22]

There are always whiners who think they are owed something. If you want the new UI, buy a new TiVo.

I just bought my TIVO HD and activated the thing 1 month ago today( ---updated ----- checking the receipt it was actually activated on Jan 20 , 2010). Had i known about this I would have waited. Now im screwed. This is BS and you know it. There are many people that bought these in the last few months. I have been a tivo customer since 2000 when i got my first s1. I have been loyal since then. This makes me question all my loyalties.

[Corran Horn]

I just bought my TIVO HD and activated the thing 1 month ago today. Had i known about this I would have waited. Now im screwed. This is BS and you know it. There are many people that bought these in the last few months. I have been a tivo customer since 2000 when i got my first s1. I have been loyal since then. This makes me question all my loyalties.


Not sure how web-savy you are, but yesterday's event (and even the Premiere name and outward specs from the accidental leak of the manual) has been known about a lot longer than a month.

[Raj]

I just bought my TIVO HD and activated the thing 1 month ago today. Had i known about this I would have waited. Now im screwed. This is BS and you know it. There are many people that bought these in the last few months. I have been a tivo customer since 2000 when i got my first s1. I have been loyal since then. This makes me question all my loyalties.

Oh come on. Anyone who came to this site KNEW that TiVo was going to release something soon. And we knew that the premiere was about to drop because it was leaked!

[DrewTivo]

TiVo in the past has supported both platforms with software updates for some time before stopping support on the older one.
Indeed, how different are the S2 and S3 UI's? Sure, there are a few modest differences, such as network diagnostics, but they're pretty similar. S4 is markedly different from S3/S2, so it's a more significant question.

[WhiskeyTango]

I just bought my TIVO HD and activated the thing 1 month ago today. Had i known about this I would have waited. Now im screwed. This is BS and you know it. There are many people that bought these in the last few months. I have been a tivo customer since 2000 when i got my first s1. I have been loyal since then. This makes me question all my loyalties.

How are you screwed? Does your Tivo HD still do what you thought it would when you bought it? It's not like your Tivo will become useless anytime soon, it's still supported and you can still use it just like you have for the past month. Your claim is absurd.

[rla22]

Oh come on. Anyone who came to this site KNEW that TiVo was going to release something soon. And we knew that the premiere was about to drop because it was leaked!

http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/02/11/tivo-schedules-a-march-2nd-nyc-event-and-well-be-there/

The first indication of anything being leaked was around this time in Feb. I pulled cruchgear as that was where i was just now. SEEING That I bought my second TivoHD on Jan 20, 2010 from FRY's here in Dallas, that was before any release of any EVENT or leak, unless you can prove otherwise. So like i stated... I just activated mine just over a month ago. Anyone else want to continue with the insults and put downs.

The TIVO still functions as required and as needed and as intended. The problem now lies with the functionality. I could careless about web video and the likes i buy a DVR to timeshift tv not web video, but what i do care about is being left in the cold with a device that will be crippled if TIVO decides to move to a better option than we currently have for MRV. This CCI byte is pathetic. If and/or when they decide to change that, im now left out. I stand by my assessment, that this is bs and im screwed by it

[Jonathan_S]

http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/02/11/tivo-schedules-a-march-2nd-nyc-event-and-well-be-there/

The first indication of anything being leaked was around this time in Feb. I pulled cruchgear as that was where i was just now. SEEING That I bought my second TivoHD on Jan 20, 2010 from FRY's here in Dallas, that was before any release of any EVENT or leak, unless you can prove otherwise.The first indication of a new unit called the TiVo Premiere was in this thread (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=440096) way back even before CES, on Dec 30th.

True there wasn't much information, but it was a solid indication that some new hardware was coming relatively soon.

[ZeoTiVo]

I bought my TIVOs in December and while I don't expect to get new product functionality in my HD, the $100 a year I have paid for should include software updates (just like Microsoft and Apple do for its DOS).

right - and those updates for the S3 will still be coming - just not including the HD UI. Oh! Excuse me, I have to go check on my 3D aero interface updates from Microsoft for windows ME.

[MediaLivingRoom]

They just want to leave Series 3 behind.

[MickeS]

I just bought my TIVO HD and activated the thing 1 month ago today( ---updated ----- checking the receipt it was actually activated on Jan 20 , 2010). Had i known about this I would have waited. Now im screwed. This is BS and you know it. There are many people that bought these in the last few months. I have been a tivo customer since 2000 when i got my first s1. I have been loyal since then. This makes me question all my loyalties.

It's like that with ANY product you buy. I bought an HD DVD player, 6 months later they stop all production of HD DVDs. I bought a cell phone, 5 months later they come out with a new version of the model with more functions.

1 month or 5 months isn't that different. Your TiVo HD will continue working just fine. You got exactly what you paid for.

[ZeoTiVo]

It's like that with ANY product you buy. I bought an HD DVD player, 6 months later they stop all production of HD DVDs. I bought a cell phone, 5 months later they come out with a new version of the model with more functions.

1 month or 5 months isn't that different. Your TiVo HD will continue working just fine. You got exactly what you paid for.


but it is a solid plan to bitch in an online forum about having bought the TiVo one month ago versus, oh I don't know -- something crazy like calling TiVo directly

[rla22]

but it is a solid plan to bitch in an online forum about having bought the TiVo one month ago versus, oh I don't know -- something crazy like calling TiVo directly

WOW had you actually done that yourself, you would realize that they are offering a paltry 20% off on a device i just paid 299 for. Even amazon and apple realize that you have to take of your customers better than that.

[WhiskeyTango]

http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/02/11/tivo-schedules-a-march-2nd-nyc-event-and-well-be-there/

The first indication of anything being leaked was around this time in Feb. I pulled cruchgear as that was where i was just now. SEEING That I bought my second TivoHD on Jan 20, 2010 from FRY's here in Dallas, that was before any release of any EVENT or leak, unless you can prove otherwise. So like i stated... I just activated mine just over a month ago. Anyone else want to continue with the insults and put downs.

If you had seen that notice that you linked, you still had time to return your Tivo under the 30 day return policy.

The TIVO still functions as required and as needed and as intended. The problem now lies with the functionality. I could careless about web video and the likes i buy a DVR to timeshift tv not web video, but what i do care about is being left in the cold with a device that will be crippled if TIVO decides to move to a better option than we currently have for MRV. This CCI byte is pathetic. If and/or when they decide to change that, im now left out. I stand by my assessment, that this is bs and im screwed by it

How do you know you're left out? It is highly unlikely either the MRV or CCI issues will be resolved on the Premiere. The CCI restrictions are mandated by CableLabs and the Premiere still uses cable cards. Tivo would have to use streaming to bypass this and there has no mention anywhere of Tivo moving in that direction? They haven't stated they are cutting off the S3 so why would your box be crippled? You think they would disable MRV on your S3 if they implement streaming on the S4?

You have buyers remorse, deal with it. If this is such an issue for you, you should have done some research before making such a big purchase or just stay out of the consumer electronics business. Things like this happen all the time. Also if you just paid $299 for a TivoHD, you overpaid. Again, doing some research would have helped. They are available on Amazon, WeaKnees, and DVRUpgrade for $249 and even cheaper on Ebay.

[Augeas]

Ok, So Tivo has released an HD GUI in a box that essentially does everything that a S3 HD box does with slightly a little more flare and eye candy...

What gives folks, keep your old box and you can still get season passes to all of the shows you want to see, all of the Netflix and Amazon you want to see, all of the YouTube videos you want to see, plus multi-room viewing and TivotoGo. With the new box you get nothing new, no extra tuner, no insane feature that makes your S3 obsolete. So if you want the eye candy and want to be on the cutting edge get the S4 if you don't want to spend the 300 or 500 for the new box keep the S3 and guess what... You still have all the same essential features available to you as the S4 users, just not a pretty.

This is an easy decision for me, I like to stay on the cutting edge and know that there is a price for it so I will probably get one soon enough and use my S3 on another TV in the house.

Here are some past examples that have affected me that are far worse than the S4 issue: I purchased a Mits Diamond HD 65" TV - 6000.00, 3 years later LCD 1080P were out, so gave the TV to a friend and purchased a Samsung 52" - 3000.00, Now 3D TVs are coming out...

BluRay - Waited until I couldn't stand it but at least got to the Profile before internet interactivity. Bought a Denon 2500 - 1000.00, was obsolete 3 months after I bought it when the internet connection was added. Everyone else that now has a BluRay is obsolete when the 3D versions come out.

Receivers - Yamaha - 1700.00 - Obsolete in 2 years when Component Video came out, Denon 1300.00 - Obsolete in 2 years when HDMI came out (and DTS HD Master and DD HD Codecs came out), Another 1600.00 to get a receiver that handles all the latest sound codecs.

Not to mention computers - Intel iMac CoreDuo, Original MacBook, MacPro, Imac Quad 27" (bought today to replace the Original intel iMac).

Iphone - Original, 3G, 3GS...

Many of the purchases above were made because something that I felt was essential was not available to me unless I upgraded, an actual Hardware upgrade that added something new...

The Tivo Premier honestly adds nothing NEW, it just makes what we have today look prettier it really adds no new functionality that we must have to see or hear something better or different. Basically it is an eye candy upgrade that was extremely overhyped, why couldn't they have added a tuner? Why couldn't they have built in WiFi? Why isn't the bluetooth remote included with the XL? Will this machine work with 3D? Does the HDMI profile they are using support it (my guess is no). It is really no upgrade at all... If you need another Tivo buy it why replace a perfectly working S3 (especially if you are on lifetime) if you don't need another Tivo or 2 more tuners in your house?

[mikefrmnj]

Here's the problem I have with the notion that HD users should get over it because the HD platform is a five year old product:

Yes, they came out 5 years ago, I get that. But, that doesn't mean everyone has a 5 year old TiVo HD. I bought my last one for Christmas, I have a box that's a couple months old and now it's being orphaned.

That's a little bit unfriendly to the average consumer, isn't it?

I'm in the same boat as you pal. Bought mine HDXL 5 months ago. This is crap! At least hook up the folks that bought s3 recently a good deal on an upgrade. Like 50% off. I am going to do what my brother suggested a long time ago. Build a media server, at least then I can do everything I want on my TV. Like stream ALL of my netflix movies that Netflix shows available from my PC. Crap, just Crap. I can use my cablevisions online menu and wont pay for monthly guide service. Free tivo, you hear that. I would pay for ease of use but with the amount of programs for a media center out there I won't pay a dime. I'm not getting brainwashed like the Apple people, gushing over their i phones that cost a ton and drop calls every 10 min, yet they swear that it doesn't happen! I digress, Tivo has jumped the shark. Bye Bye.:mad:

[MickeS]

I'm in the same boat as you pal. Bought mine HDXL 5 months ago. This is crap! At least hook up the folks that bought s3 recently a good deal on an upgrade. Like 50% off. I am going to do what my brother suggested a long time ago. Build a media server, at least then I can do everything I want on my TV. Like stream ALL of my netflix movies that Netflix shows available from my PC. Crap, just Crap. I can use my cablevisions online menu and wont pay for monthly guide service. Free tivo, you hear that. I would pay for ease of use but with the amount of programs for a media center out there I won't pay a dime. I'm not getting brainwashed like the Apple people, gushing over their i phones that cost a ton and drop calls every 10 min, yet they swear that it doesn't happen! I digress, Tivo has jumped the shark. Bye Bye.:mad:

Since your HDXL is worthless now, can you ship it to me?

[wierdo]

The new premiere has a newer chip set that can do the flash in hardware seperate from the CPU and thus avoid the bloatware problems. The older design of the TiVo HD and the S3 do not have those newer chipsets and from what TiVo says doing the flash with just the CPU in these TiVo boxes simply does not cut it.

I believe them. Flash 9.4 on a 400MHz ARM is marginal at best for anything with more than 320x240 resolution.

Maybe it's because I've had 12 mobile phones in the last 10 years and 6 TiVos in the same time frame, but not getting the new UI on my old boxes doesn't upset me in the least. I know when I'm buying something that has been out for more than a year or two that something better is almost certainly right around the corner. The hardware can do what the hardware can do, and if it can't cut it for the new features, that's life.

It's not like they're cutting off service to old units. They will continue to work as they do today for the forseeable future.

[mikefrmnj]

Since your HDXL is worthless now, can you ship it to me?

I'd rather make a you-tube video of me smashing it to bits.
For 500 its all yours. I'll even pay for shipping.:down:

[MickeS]

I'd rather make a you-tube video of me smashing it to bits.
For 500 its all yours. I'll even pay for shipping.:down:

Post the YouTube URL when you get around to it.

[chrishicks]

I can't believe this "sky is falling" stuff is still going on...