What Premiere SHOULD have been...

[rtmoore4]

This is an excerpt from a post in the thread about whether or not people will be buying the new Premiere. I'm interested to hear other's thoughts.

-------------------
TiVo,

You should have released a box focused on getting rid of your MSO altogether. You have the capability. Just allow your customers to easily get their Season Passes from the various online content providers (Hulu, Amazon, Netflix, three letter network.com, etc.) as well as OTA. If I can get all the shows I like to watch from there, presented via TiVo, why do I need cable? Now, you can justify your antiquated business model (charging for both the box AND the service).

"Replace your cable subscription with TiVo and only pay for what you want, not for what you never watch!" Now THAT'S a game-changer. The viewing public has been clamoring for a la carte channels from their cableco forever. Give them something one better. Give them a la carte CONTENT and cut the MSO out of the picture.

Sure, sure, I get it. You don't want to tick off your MSO partners. After all, they are working with you to roll TiVo out everywhere, right? Oh wait, where is that promised nationwide Comcast rollout again? What, DirecTV's new unit is STILL not released after 2 years of promises and bleeding subs?! DISH, AT&T, and Verizon are still stealing your IP and ripping you off? Cable is still dragging their feet on CableCARD support and Tru2way is a massive failure that will never deploy? SDV is a PITA that is killing a certain segment of your business?

It's time to wake up and smell the coffee, TiVo. The MSO's don't want you and they are going to continue to throw both technical as well as procedural roadblocks in your path to protect their existing revenue streams. It's time to yank the rug out from under them and make them realize they have to open up or you are going to put them out of business. You can be the new MSO, if you just have a little vision. Put DISH's money to work already and create a darn box that changes the game. You are uniquely positioned to do it and you owe it to your customers, your shareholders, and to yourselves to not end up on the trash heap of history.

[orangeboy]

This is an excerpt from a post in the thread about whether or not people will be buying the new Premiere. I'm interested to hear other's thoughts...

You should read the other thread then.

[Raj]

Getting content means Hulu and its content providers allowing you to get content anywhere other than your PC. They didn't fight Boxee and others for nothing.

Getting cable companies out of the picture? Ha! TiVo needs the help of the cable companies, and this means not doing anything to upset them. Encouraging cord cutters is going to upset them.

[TexasGrillChef]

This is an excerpt from a post in the thread about whether or not people will be buying the new Premiere. I'm interested to hear other's thoughts.

-------------------
TiVo,

You should have released a box focused on getting rid of your MSO altogether. You have the capability. Just allow your customers to easily get their Season Passes from the various online content providers (Hulu, Amazon, Netflix, three letter network.com, etc.) as well as OTA. If I can get all the shows I like to watch from there, presented via TiVo, why do I need cable? Now, you can justify your antiquated business model (charging for both the box AND the service).

I like it the way it is thank you very much. If you ask me... But I want cable. Hulu is fine. But soon they will start charging as well. Hulu also DOES NOT HAVE THE HD quality content. ie... NO 1080i HD with DD5.1!!! I want cable because cable offers shows that you CURRENTLY are unable to get online. (Legally anways, bootleg pirated copies do not count)

If you get all your shows off the internet via hulu etc... then you don't need a TiVo. Get a Boxee, Get a WD live TV player, Get a Popcorn Hour.... etc... TiVo is a DVR for those of us who want CABLE AND/OR OTA!

I do however want a one box solution. Maybe Hulu will come to the new S4's soon. I like the idea of a TiVo having the capability of a PCH, or Boxee, or other HD Media Player though.


"Replace your cable subscription with TiVo and only pay for what you want, not for what you never watch!" Now THAT'S a game-changer. The viewing public has been clamoring for a la carte channels from their cableco forever. Give them something one better. Give them a la carte CONTENT and cut the MSO out of the picture.

Thats not something TiVo has any control over. Thats up to your local cable provider and the package deals that you can or can't get. TiVo is another option to have that provides a better DVR experiance than one can obtain directly from a cable companies DVR. If you don't like what cable has to offer then don't buy cable. I want cable, I am willing to pay, For the most part, with some exceptions here and there I am happy with my cable provider. If I wasn't. I would go OTA. I want my HBO, I want other channels that are ONLY available on CAble. Their shows are NOT available (Legally) online.


Sure, sure, I get it. You don't want to tick off your MSO partners. After all, they are working with you to roll TiVo out everywhere, right? Oh wait, where is that promised nationwide Comcast rollout again? What, DirecTV's new unit is STILL not released after 2 years of promises and bleeding subs?! DISH, AT&T, and Verizon are still stealing your IP and ripping you off? Cable is still dragging their feet on CableCARD support and Tru2way is a massive failure that will never deploy? SDV is a PITA that is killing a certain segment of your business?

The Box you want isn't called a TiVo then. The box your describing isn't what TiVo is about. You don't like that. Find another alternative. Sure the Cable market has it's issues. Many that I hate. But thats NOT TiVo's fault. They are doing the best they can to continue to work in the enviroment that the CABLE companies are FORCING on TiVo. It isn't TiVo's fault Cablecards or True2Way hasn't taken off. Cable companies are fighting it tooth and nail. Cable companies want you to use THEIR boxes not TiVo. Just be dam glad a TiVo works with the cable companies system at all!


It's time to wake up and smell the coffee, TiVo. The MSO's don't want you and they are going to continue to throw both technical as well as procedural roadblocks in your path to protect their existing revenue streams. It's time to yank the rug out from under them and make them realize they have to open up or you are going to put them out of business. You can be the new MSO, if you just have a little vision. Put DISH's money to work already and create a darn box that changes the game. You are uniquely positioned to do it and you owe it to your customers, your shareholders, and to yourselves to not end up on the trash heap of history.

TiVo doesn't want to be an MSO. I DON'T want TiVo to be an MSO.

Basicically who ever wrote that... IMHO... your wishing on dream. Something that ain't gonna ever happen. You don't like that... Vote with your pocketbook. Shut the hell up and go get a life somewhere else.

I will admit, the cable companies are screwing us, I will admit that TiVo COULD do a better job in some areas. But what TiVo DOES have on the market is still FAR superior to any other DVR on the market.

Maybe this box could have been better in many ways. But WOULD you have been willing to pay MORE for it?

Having worked in R&D in the past. I will tell you this. The "product" a company comes out with to sell is based entirelly on a cost/benefit analysis. ie... A company doesn't add a feature to a product & thusly INCREASE the cost of the product unless it will have a positive impact to the bottom line.

In marketing their are things called price points. TiVo wanted to bring out two units with a price point of less than $300 and less than $500.

Could the boxes have been better? Yes, Would I have liked them to be better? Yes.... but at what cost?

Well thats my opinion for what it's worth. I will be buying the Priemere XL unit sometime in July or August when I do some remodeling and upgrading of my home entertainment center.

One other point I would like to point out. When the S3 first came out. The S3 laced many of the fantastic capabilities we have today with it. One to name is MRV. Didn't have it at all when it was first released. NOW look at the S3. It is a much fully capable DVR than just a few years ago. The S4 has more power in it & a better UI. The upgrade capabilities for it in the future are vast! I am excited to see what it holds in the future.

So TiVo... I say GOOD WORK! KUDOS! give yoruself a pat on the back

TGC

[nrc]

You can already "subscribe" to new programs in a series through Amazon. I've never bother to check whether there's an option for that on the TiVo side. I'm not sure how something like that would work with Netflix since it's not a download.

[infinitespecter]

I have to wonder... I hear all these people extolling the virtues of getting rid of cable. Do these people watch live sports at all? MLB has some access online, but outside of baseball, if you want to watch a live sporting event, you need cable (especially if you want to watch something that isn't mainstream).

[TexasGrillChef]

I have to wonder... I hear all these people extolling the virtues of getting rid of cable. Do these people watch live sports at all? MLB has some access online, but outside of baseball, if you want to watch a live sporting event, you need cable (especially if you want to watch something that isn't mainstream).

I don't watch much "main stream" sports other than the Dallas Cowboys when they are on. But your absolutely right. ESPN is on cable, Fox Sports is on cable.

If your a sports nut, you almost have to have cable!

TGC

[rtmoore4]

I have to wonder... I hear all these people extolling the virtues of getting rid of cable. Do these people watch live sports at all? MLB has some access online, but outside of baseball, if you want to watch a live sporting event, you need cable (especially if you want to watch something that isn't mainstream).

No, they don't. Which is one reason why they don't want to have to pay the huge sums of money these channels require cable to pay in order to carry them. Sorry, but I'm not a sports nut, and I don't want to have to pay for something I don't watch.

As far as TGC's long post, I get it, you think I'm off my rocker. But, mark my words, the day is fast approaching that cable or sat will not be necessary. The vast majority of content can be access via the Internet today. All that is lacking is for someone to put together the aggregation point, a la Apple iTunes for music, to make the tipping point happen. If ABC.com, or someone else doesn't want to play ball, that's fine. Shut them out, but still put together what you can and market the heck out of it. Apple did it when some of the studios didn't want to play. The studios changed their tune when Apple proved them wrong and that business model was viable after all. What I am describing WILL be the future of content consumption, and TiVo needs to either lead it, or die a slow, painful death.

[Phantom Gremlin]

The vast majority of content can be illegally downloaded via the Internet today.

There, fixed that for you.

What I am describing WILL be the future of content consumption, and TiVo needs to either lead it, or die a slow, painful death.

Eventually. Maybe in 10 years. But not anytime soon.

[ZeoTiVo]

You can already "subscribe" to new programs in a series through Amazon. I've never bother to check whether there's an option for that on the TiVo side. I'm not sure how something like that would work with Netflix since it's not a download.

with Netflix you can throw a whole season if available into the intsnat queue and on TiVo Netflix app (current one on S3 anyway) it shows as a folder and you go into to see all the shows listed - try Farscape if you want to see this.
You can go into the Beta TiVo search on an S3 and assuming you hooked your netflix account to your TiVo - can search on Farscape and either put the season in or just select episodes

I somehow doubt TiVo is going to get content from the network websites so that people can then drop their MSO :rolleyes:\

in short TiVo already provides the capability the OP speaks of for content that TiVo has the contract to access and the rest is just silly to contemplate. I found the post not well thought out in the othehr thread and now we get a whole thread devoted to some half baked idea that is not realistic at all. Off to use ignore thread yet again.

[vstone]

Not to be difficult, but many events are most valuable live or near live. Most don't record the Super Bowl for viewing the next day and many outsides of the metropolises can't get great OTA. If you watch CNNHD or FNCHD you need cable or satellite. as Yull (sp?) Brenner used to say "etc., etc., etc"

[rtmoore4]

with Netflix you can throw a whole season if available into the intsnat queue and on TiVo Netflix app (current one on S3 anyway) it shows as a folder and you go into to see all the shows listed - try Farscape if you want to see this.
You can go into the Beta TiVo search on an S3 and assuming you hooked your netflix account to your TiVo - can search on Farscape and either put the season in or just select episodes

Yes, but this is only for archived content/seasons. I want to be able to tell my TiVo that when a new episode of Lost shows up on ABC.com, for example, download it automatically instead of recording it from cable. I'll pay for the privilege, I'm not asking for illegal downloads here, despite what the previous poster misinterpreted.

I somehow doubt TiVo is going to get content from the network websites so that people can then drop their MSO :rolleyes:\

And people doubted the content owners would ever allow Apple to sell their songs for $1 on iTunes either, but it happened and now everyone is on board. The content owners only want to get paid for their stuff. Whether TiVo is paying them by charging their customers for this enablement, or whether cable is paying them, they don't (read shouldn't) care. It will take some of the more stubborn ones some time to figure it out, but that's ok. You have to start somewhere.

in short TiVo already provides the capability the OP speaks of for content that TiVo has the contract to access and the rest is just silly to contemplate. I found the post not well thought out in the othehr thread and now we get a whole thread devoted to some half baked idea that is not realistic at all. Off to use ignore thread yet again.

Exactly my point. TiVo is SO close to making this a reality that they only need to go a little further to turn the game around on the MSO's and force them to pay attention/license. The only other option is getting the courts to enforce IP protection, which has gotten us exactly nowhere over the past 6 years.

Why is it silly to say I want to fire my cable company and access a la carte programming? Ever heard of Boxee? Why does that even exist if people didn't have this desire? Show of hands...who likes their cable company and feels like they do a good job and don't screw you month after month? Anyone? I thought not. TiVo can enable their customers to do this with just a little bit of vision here. Sure, you'll have to drag some content owners along kicking and screaming, but once they see the dollar signs, they will happily allow you to provide their content on TiVo for a download fee.

You call it not realistic. I call it taking a business model that has already been proven for music content (iTunes) and adapt it for video content (TiVo). It just doesn't take a whole lot of vision to see how that works. I understand if you've been locked into your MSO for forever and you're a TiVo fanboi besides, it's difficult to see past the limitations of the existing system. But take a step back and ask yourself, if you don't really care about real-time content (evening news and sports), why WOULDN'T you want to fire your MSO and get only what you want for less than half the monthly price of what you pay today?

I'll admit cross-posting this here was a bit of a stretch, but it didn't really belong in the other thread if I wanted people to actually discuss this concept instead of just bash the S4. I'm happy to delete the other post if that would make you feel better.

[rtmoore4]

Not to be difficult, but many events are most valuable live or near live. Most don't record the Super Bowl for viewing the next day and many outsides of the metropolises can't get great OTA. If you watch CNNHD or FNCHD you need cable or satellite. as Yull (sp?) Brenner used to say "etc., etc., etc"

Agreed. For folks who want/need real-time content, this solution would not work. But for at least half the viewing public, it DOES work, saves them money, and gives TiVo a lot of power (read $) in the marketplace. Take a look at what iTunes did for Apple.

[infinitespecter]

Agreed. For folks who want/need real-time content, this solution would not work. But for at least half the viewing public, it DOES work, saves them money, and gives TiVo a lot of power (read $) in the marketplace. Take a look at what iTunes did for Apple.



Half? Where did you get that figure from? I'd be shocked if this was an acceptable solution for even 20% of the general public.

[Raj]

Half? Where did you get that figure from? I'd be shocked if this was an acceptable solution for even 20% of the general public.

Heck, most of the public is happy with crappy cable company DVRs or even old analog TVs. One of my neighbors STILL subscribes to analog service on cable and doesn't have a digital cable box, even though the cable company gives you the first one for free!

[Raj]

Show of hands...who likes their cable company and feels like they do a good job and don't screw you month after month? Anyone?

Most of the people I talk to are indifferent.

I like my cable company except when they have an occasional bout of cluelessness. But they usually make up for it.

Besides, I've never heard anyone say anything bad about FiOS (which is also a cable company) other than billing issues.

Besides, who are you going to get your internet connection from?

[Augeas]

Having worked in R&D in the past. I will tell you this. The "product" a company comes out with to sell is based entirelly on a cost/benefit analysis. ie... A company doesn't add a feature to a product & thusly INCREASE the cost of the product unless it will have a positive impact to the bottom line.

In marketing their are things called price points. TiVo wanted to bring out two units with a price point of less than $300 and less than $500.

Could the boxes have been better? Yes, Would I have liked them to be better? Yes.... but at what cost

I agree to the majority of this response, Tivo needs the MSOs and we need Tivo so we don't have to accept the garbage boxes the MSOs would otherwise force their subscribers to use. However, the approach that Tivo is taking will not help them gain the average Joe cable subscriber... The price points are still too high and the average user population does not understand the benefit of Tivo over the cable company box. Tivo needs to release a third barebones entry level box at the magical 99.00 price point to grab subscribers from the MSOs or they must get in bed with the MSOs to capture the subscriber base necessary to become profitable.

On the get rid of cable theme, I have tried and technology/content is not there yet. In my setup I have AppleTV, XBox 360, Tivo... I canceled cable and purchased the HD Tivo because i was fed up with fios (i was a DirecTV Tivo user back in 2002 until they dropped Tivo then I went to Cable for the broadband capability). I used an Antenna, bought Apple TV subscriptions to the shows I wanted, added Boxee to the ATV and got Hulu, and also streamed content from my computer to the ATV and Tivo, used Netflix VOD for movies and rentals...

Still not good enough, content i wanted could not be found and frankly I missed the channel surfing and discovery of channels and shows that I did not expect to want to watch. I still have all of the above, but added cable back into the mix within 6 months.

I will purchase a Premiere and use my S3 on another TV, but I don't expect many others to move away from their HD dual tuner Scientific Atlanta Cable boxes for 700.00 to 900.00 TCO.

[Stormspace]

TiVo needs the help of the cable companies, and this means not doing anything to upset them. Encouraging cord cutters is going to upset them.

Yeah, it's worked so well for them to date, huh?

[Phantom Gremlin]

You call it not realistic. I call it taking a business model that has already been proven for music content (iTunes) and adapt it for video content (TiVo).

Funny you should mention iTunes. Isn't what you propose exactly what Apple has been trying to do with their "hobby" Apple TV? How's that working out for them? What makes you think that TiVo could make more than a "hobby" out of it?

[aaronwt]

No, they don't. Which is one reason why they don't want to have to pay the huge sums of money these channels require cable to pay in order to carry them. Sorry, but I'm not a sports nut, and I don't want to have to pay for something I don't watch.

As far as TGC's long post, I get it, you think I'm off my rocker. But, mark my words, the day is fast approaching that cable or sat will not be necessary. The vast majority of content can be access via the Internet today. All that is lacking is for someone to put together the aggregation point, a la Apple iTunes for music, to make the tipping point happen. If ABC.com, or someone else doesn't want to play ball, that's fine. Shut them out, but still put together what you can and market the heck out of it. Apple did it when some of the studios didn't want to play. The studios changed their tune when Apple proved them wrong and that business model was viable after all. What I am describing WILL be the future of content consumption, and TiVo needs to either lead it, or die a slow, painful death.

Sure most of the content is available, but most of it also looks and sounds like crap compared to what you get OTA and cable. When the conten online can match what I get from cable and OTA, then I will consider dropping it. But that day is nowhere close yet.

Now if you only watch a crappy SD picture and listen to stereo or mono, then there is tons of content available online with that. But if I wanted to watch that regularly I could have stayed in the 20th century.

This is the 21st century. I want HD and DD 5.1 at a minimum from broadcast.