Most exciting piece of news about Premiere is... [Text View]

moyekj

03-02-2010, 06:48 PM

This is what most caught my eye in the official press release of the Premiere:
Premiere is built on multi-core architecture that greatly facilitates future development of third party provided applications.

Hopefully the above means TiVo is openly embracing 3rd party applications again instead of closing that off as they did with HME... For both ReplayTV and TiVo platforms some of the best features in the past have been implemented via 3rd parties IMO.

Everything else was not really surprising (or very exciting) to me in the least since most of it had been leaked out already.

MediaLivingRoom

03-02-2010, 06:56 PM

Link to Adobe "Flash Platform for the Digital Home"

http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200904/042009FlashDigitalHome.html

official press release of the Premiere
"Set-top box built on Adobe® Flash® Platform for the Digital Home: Premiere is built on Adobe Flash software, a pathway to future user-generated experiences and development opportunities, which have not been available before on a set-top box. Premiere is built on multi-core architecture that greatly facilitates future development of third party provided applications."

trip1eX

03-02-2010, 07:57 PM

Yeah it is exciting just like it is exciting to think you might win the lottery someday.

Wil

03-02-2010, 09:56 PM

The most exciting thing, to me, is that I am now free.

As a Tivo fan from prior to day one, it has been hard up to now to let go.

I still think that as a company the original technical team did seminal work. I think the DirecTivo, as allowed to be hacked and supplemented by freeware, has been the high water mark in home TV entertainment usefulness. I think Tivo is a historical name that will be well thought of for many decades.

8bitbarbarian

03-02-2010, 10:24 PM

Make flash based .flac player - that's going on my TO DO list!

jmpage2

03-02-2010, 10:25 PM

The most exciting thing about the TiVo premiere is that there is still a retail TiVo unit available for purchase that is free of provider strings.

That's about it though, not much else to be excited about. TiVo continues to fail at innovation and coasting on work they did years ago.

rodneyremington

03-02-2010, 10:33 PM

TiVo continues to fail at innovation and coasting on work they did years ago.

Who wants to bet TiVo spent more on lawsuits than R&D last year. Seems like their business strategy is let's make money off royalties from our patents, rather than by developing significantly improved product.

bkdtv

03-02-2010, 11:03 PM

Who wants to bet TiVo spent more on lawsuits than R&D last year. Seems like their business strategy is let's make money off royalties from our patents, rather than by developing significantly improved product.Virtually every part of the interface was completely redone. There will be many small improvements, not yet discussed or demo'd, that will also improve usability.

lvthunder

03-02-2010, 11:40 PM

Who knows what else under the UI has been changed. For all we know this is a completely different OS. So the software will be upgraded over time and I bet over the year or so there will be more features.

MichaelK

03-03-2010, 08:49 AM

I'm most excited about the 'comcast video on demand' and 'cable video on demand' menu items in the screenshots that engadget has.

dig_duggler

03-03-2010, 09:08 AM

I must say that you shouldn't pin your hopes on the promise of the thing - Tivo has a spotty record of promise. The series 3 was going to have M card support eventually, until it didn't. They were going to add aac support so your iTunes files (non drm'd) would work- they didn't. Cablecard installs were not going to be painless in theory, but in practice many users found them anything but. SDV wasn't going to really be a problem until it was. They were supposed to have Netflix integration years ago and then it was quietly dropped until Netflix online streaming was already implemented.

I'd say buy if you like what you see now, but don't buy it for the promise.

lvthunder

03-03-2010, 09:43 AM

I must say that you shouldn't pin your hopes on the promise of the thing - Tivo has a spotty record of promise. The series 3 was going to have M card support eventually, until it didn't. They were going to add aac support so your iTunes files (non drm'd) would work- they didn't. Cablecard installs were not going to be painless in theory, but in practice many users found them anything but. SDV wasn't going to really be a problem until it was. They were supposed to have Netflix integration years ago and then it was quietly dropped until Netflix online streaming was already implemented.

I'd say buy if you like what you see now, but don't buy it for the promise.

You can't blame Cablecards on TiVo. Cablecard was created by the cable industry to be a piece of garbage. The cable companies didn't want them and had to drug kicking and screaming. The cablecard experience is just as bad on a TV as it is on a TiVo. TiVo has added new stuff to every series version of the hardware as time goes on.

jwcooper

03-03-2010, 10:05 AM

dig_duggler

03-03-2010, 10:10 AM

Assertions about the intentions of the cable companies aside (the incredibly small user base probably has the most to do with bad support IMO rather than a nefarious plot), Tivo chose the cablecard game. The end user doesn't care about fairness, they just care if it works. And for many it didn't and the cable company's box would. It may not be fair, but the end result is all most users care about. And they are still in this same boat with their new product. My point is that Tivo has a history of making promises or insinuations they cannot (whether in their control or not) or do not deliver on.

dig_duggler

03-03-2010, 10:11 AM

ZeoTiVo

03-03-2010, 10:22 AM

I must say that you shouldn't pin your hopes on the promise of the thing - Tivo has a spotty record of promise. The series 3 was going to have M card support eventually, until it didn't. chipset problem that made more issues by gaining Mcard then just staying at Scard. Fully explained by TiVo in these forums.
They were going to add aac support so your iTunes files (non drm'd) would work- they didn't. hmm, never saw where they absolutely promised this would happen. I know they had posts saying maybe and they were looking at it. In the end they likely made the right call as the people whowould have only DRMed iTunes content would likely be the ones least likely to understand why it would not play on a TiVo.
Cablecard installs were not going to be painless in theory, but in practice many users found them anything but. SDV wasn't going to really be a problem until it was. so Now TiVo is also responsible for what the cable companies deliver?
They were supposed to have Netflix integration years ago and then it was quietly dropped until Netflix online streaming was already implemented. this is the one you are most off base on - Netflix early on wanted to do broadband delivery but Netflix could not then obtain the licenses needed out of netflix talks with content providers. This was a Netflix problem and when Netflix did have the content to stream, TiVo was there, not with the same army of programmers as Microsoft or the dedicated Roku box but TiVo was there as promised way back when.
I'd say buy if you like what you see now, but don't buy it for the promise.
always good advice anyway. Still all the examples you listed were not really relevant to your initial point.

ZeoTiVo

03-03-2010, 10:27 AM

Perhaps I missed it, but other than the two mentioned new partners yesterday was there any mention of app development? Tivo seems to strategically seek out a limited number of partners, there doesn't seem to be evidence for an 'app store' other than wishes here.

it actually is smart to keep the partner set for release limited so you can keep easier track and know the partner will be there on release day.

But sure the absence of public info means your viewpoint is correct, not.

jmpage2

03-03-2010, 11:23 AM

I think something many are overlooking is that now that the new tivo is using flash for the UI, I'd expect the development time of new components, and features will be dramatically reduced. Flash development is fairly quick compared to using native Linux libraries.

At first I thought Flash was a big disappointment, but the more I've thought about it, the more it seems like a brilliant move. The Flash community is huge, there are a *lot* of flash developers out there that will jump at the opportunity to develop applications (think app store...) for free or profit.

It's not an open platform. You, as a developer, could not develop an App for the TiVo.

Even if the possibility of some kind of "app store" is on the horizon I suspect it's a long way off. This is an incremental move. There could be a newer more powerful TiVo released in just a year and we will find out we have to get that TiVo to take advantage of 3rd party applications, if they are ever even allowed to run on the box.

dig_duggler

03-03-2010, 05:01 PM

chipset problem that made more issues by gaining Mcard then just staying at Scard. Fully explained by TiVo in these forums.
hmm, never saw where they absolutely promised this would happen. I know they had posts saying maybe and they were looking at it. In the end they likely made the right call as the people whowould have only DRMed iTunes content would likely be the ones least likely to understand why it would not play on a TiVo.
so Now TiVo is also responsible for what the cable companies deliver?
this is the one you are most off base on - Netflix early on wanted to do broadband delivery but Netflix could not then obtain the licenses needed out of netflix talks with content providers. This was a Netflix problem and when Netflix did have the content to stream, TiVo was there, not with the same army of programmers as Microsoft or the dedicated Roku box but TiVo was there as promised way back when.

always good advice anyway. Still all the examples you listed were not really relevant to your initial point.

Promise has a few meanings. I thought it was pretty clear from the context but 'promise' (and not the word 'promised') in this sense is "something that has the effect of an express assurance; indication of what may be expected." Not actual guarantees or 'promises'.

Oh and that comcast on demand thumbnail? That was a mistake (http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/03/oops-tivo-premiere-wont-have-comcast-on-demand/).

"TiVo tells us this screenshot is actually just a mockup and not indicative of any actual partnership. "

If Tivo's core functionality is tied to what cable companies can and cannot do, then yeah they get some blame. Just like the iPhone gets mocked alot for not working as a phone when AT&T is the problem. Perception is reality in business.

MediaLivingRoom

03-03-2010, 05:03 PM

TiVo App Store = $.99 starting price

wierdo

03-03-2010, 05:06 PM

The iPhone gets mocked for not working as a phone because it's got crappy reception compared to other GSM phones.

RangerOne

03-03-2010, 08:06 PM

MichaelK said:

I'm most excited about the 'comcast video on demand' and 'cable video on demand' menu items in the screenshots that engadget has.

Sorry to break the news but the Comcast on-demand and the "Friends Recommend" were just mock ups. More info at engadget:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/03/oops-tivo-premiere-wont-have-comcast-on-demand/

ZeoTiVo

03-03-2010, 11:21 PM

Promise has a few meanings. I thought it was pretty clear from the context but 'promise' (and not the word 'promised') in this sense is "something that has the effect of an express assurance; indication of what may be expected." Not actual guarantees or 'promises'. and yet all your examples do not fit any of those meanings

If Tivo's core functionality is tied to what cable companies can and cannot do, then yeah they get some blame. Just like the iPhone gets mocked alot for not working as a phone when AT&T is the problem. Perception is reality in business.
of course cable cards have a direct impact on TiVo - stil does not mean TiVo gave any express assurance; indication of what may be expected that cable cards and tuner adapters would be no fuss at all. You may have had those expectations in your mind but they came from you and not the companies involved.

Oh and I had a AT&T Tilt and then an AT&T tilt 2 - both have worked great on the 3G network and I even had Flash working on both phones and watched Hulu over 3G until Hulu put the kabash on my mobile browser. My perception is that the Tilt was rock steady reliable while I heard constant reports of iPhone issues.

MichaelK

03-04-2010, 05:58 PM

MichaelK said:

Sorry to break the news but the Comcast on-demand and the "Friends Recommend" were just mock ups. More info at engadget:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/03/oops-tivo-premiere-wont-have-comcast-on-demand/

since no one else saw them in real life I was certain that they aren't alive yet. But it does mean tivo things such things are possible with the new platform and that's what I'm excited about. I'm not running to buy now (unless I decide the upgrade deal is a wise $$$ choice)- but i HOPE that one day such apps as the mockups see the light of day.

my fingers are crossed- but I have no certainty that anything like that will see the light of day.

Raj

03-04-2010, 07:04 PM

Hopefully the above means TiVo is openly embracing 3rd party applications again instead of closing that off as they did with HME...

When did they close off HME?

moyekj

03-04-2010, 10:08 PM

When did they close off HME? The official TiVo web site on HME and accompanying API slowly and silently went away, I don't quite remember exactly when but something like a year ago now. It was devoid of updates long before that...

chestnu1

03-04-2010, 11:50 PM

The most excitiing piece of news about the premiere is that it only has two tuners when the competition moxi and to some extent ceton with WMC have 3 and 4 tuner options FTW. (Sarcasm)

tootal2

03-04-2010, 11:59 PM

MickeS

03-05-2010, 12:09 AM

The most excitiing piece of news about the premiere is that it only has two tuners when the competition moxi and to some extent ceton with WMC have 3 and 4 tuner options FTW. (Sarcasm)

While more tuners would have been great (not for me, I really don't care), I would guess that they didn't do it for 3 reasons.

1: it costs more (duh) and they were trying really hard to keep the cost down

2: the number of people clamoring for 3+ tuners is relatively small, has other options, and probably already might have made their choice of DVR (with an investment far beyond what cable DVR customers have made). For the one-box multi-tuner crowd, I think TiVo has made, for now at least due to the cost cutting efforts, a conscious decision to yield that market to PC or Moxi. TiVo is trying to go after the cable DVR set, and frankly they barely use their DVRs as it is - 2 more tuners isn't what will get them to switch, which leads to...

3: presumably, the prospect of a more customizable all-in-one solution for Internet media IS what might make them switch... or that's what I guess the thinking is. Like AppleTV, Roku, and Vudu (and maybe others), TiVo has (probably correctly IMO) predicted that the future is in downloadable on demand content. Adding 2 more tuners isn't part of that strategy - the competitors in this area don't even have any.

I think #3 is actually the most exciting piece of news. I wanted TiVo to focus on this market, instead of the DVR market, which has proven so far to be a dead end as far as growth and profit is concerned.

slowbiscuit

03-05-2010, 06:29 AM

This would've been a great selling feature for the XL, however - ditch the 'almost nobody cares' THX cert and substitute the investment with another tuner or two. You'd hear a LOT less bitching now if the Premiere XL had 3 or 4 tuners, especially when the cost diff between standard and XL is so high (and hard to justify spec-wise).

MichaelK

03-05-2010, 08:58 AM

i think many (clearly not all) folks with a need for more than 2 tuners would also have more than 1 tv. So with the need for 2+ tivo's anyway (ignoring the replies I'm about to get saying tivo should just make extenders to go with this mythical 3 tuner model)- this isn't really a big deal if they could just figure out how to do cooperative scheduling with streaming. Maybe they can get off their butts now with the new platform to accomplish that- we can only hope.

right now I'm on the fence (and mostly on the not upgrading side)- there's no compelling feature upgrade to my two S3's. But the upgrade offer is economically appealing. (My 2 s3's are at the ~7 dollar MRV price becasue I have a 7 year old S2DVD unit that is starting to act flaky - so might get a fresh lifetime box for when that one dies off.)

But my biggest fear is that shortly after the upgrade program they implement some compelling feature like cooperative scheduling with streaming or Comcast VOD (i happen to be on comcast).

decisions.... decisions...

innocentfreak

03-05-2010, 09:21 AM

i think many (clearly not all) folks with a need for more than 2 tuners would also have more than 1 tv. So with the need for 2+ tivo's anyway (ignoring the replies I'm about to get saying tivo should just make extenders to go with this mythical 3 tuner model)- this isn't really a big deal if they could just figure out how to do cooperative scheduling with streaming. Maybe they can get off their butts now with the new platform to accomplish that- we can only hope.

Oh I definitely agree. For me though I approach it like a TiVo server model. Give me one large multituner, preferably 6 tuners, box for my main recording location. Then I will just add the dual tuner options at other rooms which not only gives me more tuners which can now record separate shows, but with faster transfers and the potential for streaming you would still have access to the bulk of the recordings.

This way the other rooms could have their own TiVo for recording shows, but also still have access to shows recorded on the main unit.

MichaelK

03-06-2010, 11:04 AM

MichaelK said:

Sorry to break the news but ...the "Friends Recommend" were just mock ups. More info at engadget:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/03/oops-tivo-premiere-wont-have-comcast-on-demand/

what's interested is they seem to have been working on a "friends" feature since very early on.

check out this block post from ~18 months ago doing a marketing survey on the new UI.

http://www.hoyty.com/hoytyweblog/archives/2008/09/potential-new-t.html

Same basic UI as they showed at the premiere event.

It appears to be some idea of community as well with a “Connect with family & friends” button which seems to be taking the idea of thumbs up and genius lists to the next level.