"Inventing the DVR was just a warmup"

[dig_duggler]

Already being discussed in the "Premiere" thread (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7772029#post7772029), but this invitation (http://gizmodo.com/5469602/tivos-got-something-big-coming-march-2nd?) to an event March 2nd seems much more boastful than a reduced cost box. App store? New software? A new way forward for Tivo? Speculate away.

Just seemed worthy of it's own thread

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2010/02/screencap_2010-02-11_at_11.36.22_am.jpg

[kevinwill1]

Oh my goodness, hopefully they will make some kind of grand announcement. If we've had to wait all this long just to have them officially show and announce the "slightly updated" looking box we've seen the set up manual for, TiVo is going to disappoint a great many people. Here's hoping for something that blows us all away...

[DancnDude]

A headline like that is bound to make a lot of people disappointed. I hope I'm wrong and the announcement is really exciting but I'm prepared to be a little let down.

Here's hoping for at least a new HD user interface.

[innocentfreak]

yeah I am trying to not get excited. It could be just the new directv dvr for all we know. I definitely agree with that wordage they need to come strong.

[ZeoTiVo]

TiVo will finally do my laundry :D

other than that I hold comment until March 2nd

[bschuler2007]

March 2nd? I think they pulled the upgrade offer and stopped resupplying stock way to early.

[lew]

March 2nd? I think they pulled the upgrade offer and stopped resupplying stock way to early.

Probably the only way to limit the number of returns under tivo's 30 day return policy. Likely the unit will have a larger hard drive.

[wildcardd]

Sling type functionality? Think that might be possible?

[Krandor]

Sling type functionality? Think that might be possible?

They would have to be careful not to violate sling patents.

[kas25]

Hulu(and more internet based content) and ability to play your tivo content on mobile phones.

[Raj]

Hulu(and more internet based content) and ability to play your tivo content on mobile phones.

You can do that already with TiVo desktop or 3rd party utilities such as kmttg.

If it's streaming content from TiVo DVRs, I'm sure that wireless carriers will simply LOVE that...not.

As for Hulu, not likely to happen. It's not Hulu's decision, it's the content providers decision. Maybe if/when fee based Hulu becomes reality but not right now.

[anthonymoody]

Whatever it is, this does indeed set an extremely high bar. I have to hope that they're market-aware enough to know that:

1) Staying away from CES in order to preserve focus
2) Using language like this

...means that they can't simply roll out a directv box and a cheaper cc model.

LOVE the notion of slinging to mobiles (iPad anyone?)

I'm also interested in much more robust guts. The UI is slowish, and newer features don't have that snappy TiVo experience.

Beyond that, slip in a blu ray drive and call it a day :)

[Philmatic]

About freaking time...

MoCA, 4 Tuners, Tru2Way, Unified NP, Tuner Teaming, New Interface, Now Hardware (To power new software)...

or bust

[nirisahn]

About freaking time...

MoCA, 4 Tuners, Tru2Way, Unified NP, Tuner Teaming, New Interface, Now Hardware (To power new software)...

or bustThis. And an offer to transfer lifetime subs for a reasonable fee (say $99). For that I would absolutely upgrade my S2DT.

[MickeS]

Yeah, this will end well... ;)

Maybe it's NOT a new DVR at all? Maybe it's some sort of online "on demand" video delivery service a la Hulu? That's the future anyway.

[dig_duggler]

Does anyone know the last time Tivo had an event like this (if ever)? Very apple-ish of them.

[innocentfreak]

I just hope Tivo doesnt make a mistake and not have product available immediately.

[mec1991]

Very apple-ish of them.

So true...

I just hope it's not going to disappoint me like Steve's "big ass iPod Touch" did recently. :(

I still do not understand what the iPad is for and I have suffered from Apple lust for about 15 years now.

[wmcbrine]

It'll turn out to be just a scooter (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Segway_PT#History).

[socrplyr]

I actually expect to see at least 3 of the following (some of which might be the same).
1. 802.11n device - has been around for long enough to get released
2. Tivo Premier - One of three items: DirecTivo, S4, or Best Buy Tivo
3. DirecTivo - It has got to be done sometime soon, I would expect.
4. New software including GUI - ~1.5? years from last update, a big one should be coming.
5. Best Buy Tivo - How long does it take to create a new box?

Obviously, all of those are opinions. However, I feel that they are not pie in the sky, like a lot of suggestions. These are all based on things that Tivo has announced is coming or has let slip (FCC/Manual). The final one being the software update. I find it very hard to believe they are done with the TivoHD/XL when it comes to updating software. My bet is instead of incremental updates they put all those on hold for a large one. Maybe that one is wishful thinking, but hey I'm hoping for a little more responsive interface.

[oosik77]

No it will be ultra cool since I just got an XL box with lifetime subscription! :D

[djwilso]

It sounds exciting and all, but unless my original Series3 blows up and catches fire, I will not be an early adopter this time around. $800, screwed out of lifetime service, etc. No thanks.

I'll wait at least a year before even thinking about getting a new TiVo.

[AbMagFab]

1) Tivo software embedded into Best Buy Insignia TVs
2) New HD UI with video downloads more prominent, and easier to find
3) Integrated Find Programs that cuts across cable, internet, TivoCast, etc.

I wouldn't expect anything more. The "revolutionary" stuff is the direct integration into TVs and the continued expansion of IP-based TV.

Would be awesome if they added Tivo-to-Tivo streaming instead of/in addition to copying.

Don't expect any more media-from-PC streaming improvements/enhancements.

[CuriousMark]

Don't expect any more media-from-PC streaming mprovements/enhancements.

But wouldn't direct music playback from iTunes with cover-flow be the cat's meow?

[kas25]

But wouldn't direct music playback from iTunes with cover-flow be the cat's meow?

That's an apple tv so it wouldn't be very groundbreaking.

[solutionsetc]

So true...

I just hope it's not going to disappoint me like Steve's "big ass iPod Touch" did recently. :(

I still do not understand what the iPad is for and I have suffered from Apple lust for about 15 years now.

Not meaning to thread-jack, but I am afraid you missed it; hard to believe you're an Apple aficionado. The iPad is for anyone needing a computing appliance and doesn't want/need to lug around a laptop. This could be sales folk, doctors, nurses, lawyers, delivery folks, service personnel… anyone that needs a clipboard sized device to read, record, and communicate textual and graphical information.

Yes… you can do most of this on an iPhone now, but it is slow and just a wee bit clumsy. The iPad experience is pretty amazing in comparison.

[Lazlo123]

1)
3) Integrated Find Programs that cuts across cable, internet, TivoCast, etc.



Doesn't Tivo Search already do this?

[MediaLivingRoom]

be bold TiVo!!!!

Make it more than Series 4.


Do something others are not doing well. Make us believe again!!! Don't be a follower, break new ground. shake-up the DVR business.

[johnny99]

Access to free internet services like Hulu, Slacker, Pandora, Boxee

How about some internet services at the same time you are watching TV, like a split screen with your TV show on top and stock tickers or Twitter updates below.

[aaronwt]

A slimmer box with one CC slot and a larger hard drive. If they did this and added a third or fourth tuner I think a lot of people would be happy.

[innocentfreak]

has tivo put anything out there or has the only info come from the invite? if just the invite, I am curious how tivo will word the announcement. the wording may not mean much if it just an attempt to make sure the invited come out.

[ellinj]

Things I'd like to see, but will never happen.

1. Switch to Mpeg4
2. Ability to Stream rather then the slow MRV system we have now
3. Built in Moca networking
4. Fast CPU
5. Hulu and MLB
6. Manual QAM Mapping

[aaronwt]

With the current MRV I can already watch the HD content in faster than realtime when transferring. Although I wish you could start watching it with MRV before the programm finished recording.

[SMWinnie]

Already being discussed in the "Premiere" thread (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7772029#post7772029), but this invitation (http://gizmodo.com/5469602/tivos-got-something-big-coming-march-2nd?) to an event March 2nd seems much more boastful than a reduced cost box. App store? New software? A new way forward for Tivo? Speculate away.

Just seemed worthy of it's own thread

http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/4/2010/02/screencap_2010-02-11_at_11.36.22_am.jpg
Hmm...I wonder. Why Rockefeller Center for the announcement?

Announcement in NYC suggests content to me rather than hardware.

[AbMagFab]

Hmm...I wonder. Why Rockefeller Center for the announcement?

Announcement in NYC suggests content to me rather than hardware.

Yup... maybe all NBC content and/or Comcast content available and searchable on-demand?

It would be cool if Tivo could pioneer getting all major broadcast/cable nets to make their content searchable, season-passable, wishlistable, on-demand, on-line, and fully integrated with my Tivo.

I wonder if TivoShannon leaving/let go has some relation to this?

[ZeoTiVo]

Yes… you can do most of this on an iPhone now, but it is slow and just a wee bit clumsy. The iPad experience is pretty amazing in comparison.
the iPad is not even out yet, so how can you know what the experience* will be. So I guess this is pretty much like all the speculation over what TiVo will say march 2nd. :D

[innocentfreak]

A slimmer box with one CC slot and a larger hard drive. If they did this and added a third or fourth tuner I think a lot of people would be happy.

I would buy 2 immediately but would still like to see faster transfers also.

[fatlard]

http://tekgek.com/?p=11138

A tipster writes in with knowledge of some of the improvements TiVo may be making to its devices. The most important: a move to full HD menus, improved search, and the phasing out of Series 2 hardware. Because the company stopped making improvements to the current software as of the middle of last year, our source believes that aside from minor add-ons like Blockbuster support the old UI and OS will be replaced by a fully HD version, available at first on Series 3 hardware.
He describes the move as something akin to Microsoft’s redesign of the Xbox Dashboard – a surface refresh that plays better with larger, HD TVs. This could also include new methods for adding apps and content to existing boxes.
There is obviously some talk of the TiVo Premiere coming with ATSC and cable card support. This, also, is still a rumor.
Our hope is this: new, cheaper hardware that supports HD recording and that can work without a cable card. (Tru2Way maybe?) Thanks to content providers, that may be a big fat pipe dream, but TiVo has a deep hole to climb out of, especially with the move towards cable-company DVRs even if those DVRs are far inferior to TiVo’s interface. TiVo made it big in a world without competitors and now they have many. Unless they can outfox those competitors, they’re sunk.

[MickeS]

I kinda wish they don't care about updating the Series 3 units anymore as far as functionality and software goes.

As nice as it has been for me to have a Series 2 now that does a LOT more than when I bought it 7 years ago, and a Series 3 that does plenty more than when I bought that 3 years ago, it has not really made much sense to me that TiVo keeps updating the existing units to the degree they do.

Where's the incentive for me to buy a "Series 4" if the majority of the functionality will be made available to me in my Series 3?

[Kablemodem]

I will not buy a TiVoPad.

[janry]

I will not buy a TiVoPad.

TiVoPad? That sounds cool.

[socrplyr]

I kinda wish they don't care about updating the Series 3 units anymore as far as functionality and software goes.

As nice as it has been for me to have a Series 2 now that does a LOT more than when I bought it 7 years ago, and a Series 3 that does plenty more than when I bought that 3 years ago, it has not really made much sense to me that TiVo keeps updating the existing units to the degree they do.

Where's the incentive for me to buy a "Series 4" if the majority of the functionality will be made available to me in my Series 3?

I don't necessarily disagree with your sentiments, however, Tivo has chosen to make their money off subscriptions, not boxes. Thus, they don't give a crap what box you have, just as long as you are happy enough to keep paying the subscription cost. Obviously this falls off with PLS, but I don't really know what fraction of boxes have PLS.

[solutionsetc]

the iPad is not even out yet, so how can you know what the experience* will be.

Maybe because I have seen the SDK and know what is possible… and of course it is not difficult to imagine the larger screen, 802.11n, and a significantly more robust CPU on top of an iPhone. Not to mention the best deal in the country on a mobile data plan.

[lvthunder]

My guess would be some sort of Media Server with enough horse power to stream to multiple TiVo's at the same time coupled with new software for the S3 boxes. That way when TiVo software gets integrated into a TV they don't need a spinning hard drive they just need some flash memory.

[BigJimOutlaw]

Ok, the pieces are coming together. An ambitious product name (Tivo Premiere), a very Apple-like invitation that's designed to hype, and a press event held at Rockefeller Plaza of all places.

This is a lot of noise for just a cost-cutting model. Whatever they're doing, they're doing it big for a reason. Wouldn't be surprising if there were a couple of different announcements (content and hardware).

Kudos to them for making people take notice today. I've been saying for a while Tivo should do something unexpected to disrupt the DVR market and make people take notice of them again. (Think other market disrupting products like ipod, iphone, Wii, etc.) People should WANT a Tivo, and they should finally change the perception that a cable DVR is "good enough." One can only hope.

As for the product itself... I think it's very likely to have an improved CPU. The question is whether it's 2009 new or 2010 new, because Broadcom is shipping 2010 CPUs that are total nerd porn, and significantly improve and advance the box's capabilities.

[GoldenTiger]

Not meaning to thread-jack, but I am afraid you missed it; hard to believe you're an Apple aficionado. The iPad is for anyone needing a computing appliance and doesn't want/need to lug around a laptop. This could be sales folk, doctors, nurses, lawyers, delivery folks, service personnel… anyone that needs a clipboard sized device to read, record, and communicate textual and graphical information.

Yes… you can do most of this on an iPhone now, but it is slow and just a wee bit clumsy. The iPad experience is pretty amazing in comparison.

That's what tablet pc's have been for, for many years. Or netbooks: they work even better. As far as the announcement, it would have to be insanely good for me to not just get a Ceton quad-tuner single-CableCARD adapter for my PC once they come out and sell off my Tivo... my 3-year subscription is ending in a couple of months, so it would be more economical and feature-rich to use Win7 MC with that card instead of my 1.5tb (1.25 usable) upgraded TivoHD in that case. A $99 lifetime offer might entice me to buy that and then give it to my mother, but Tivo has probably lost me after all these years as a customer.

My chief complaints with current tivo's that I wish they'd fix with the new ones:


Multiple hard drives officially supported, 2x internal at minimum.

Ability to stream to PC's or other rooms, not transfer/copy slowly.

Slow menu interface nowadays (just not very snappy).

Low-rez menu interface for my 84" projector setup.

Subscription fee ($13 a month, even $8 a month with the 3-year, is kind of up there considering Win7 MC being a strong offering now and a large investment for one unit) needs to be for a household, not just one tivo with multiroom discounts.

Triple-or-quad tuner capability would be a must

[MediaLivingRoom]

TiVo is going to built a Windows version themselves, that is why nero stopped selling there own in Dec 31, 2009. TiVo will build a new ecosystem with coop programming and gigabit networking.

[innocentfreak]

TiVo is going to built a Windows version themselves, that is why nero stopped selling there own in Dec 31, 2009. TiVo will build a new ecosystem with coop programming and gigabit networking.

As much as I love Windows 7 MC, if Tivo did it correctly and also was able to support the Ceton tuners I might be convinced to go for it. It would have to have a lifetime service option though.

[mec1991]

Not meaning to thread-jack, but I am afraid you missed it; hard to believe you're an Apple aficionado.

No problem.

It's just that I already have an iPhone, an iPod Touch, and a Macbook Pro. To me it just seems redundant but hopefully others will need/want it.

[defucius]

No problem.

It's just that I already have an iPhone, an iPod Touch, and a Macbook Pro. To me it just seems redundant but hopefully others will need/want it.

I totally agree. I have a mac pro, ipod touch, macbook pro. And I totally do not see the need for an iPad, especially that I am limited to the app store for anything I want to do. If it provided a general computing environment like the macbook air, it would be a different story.

[aaronwt]

I've avoided owning Apple products for decades. The iPad might be the first Apple product that I purchase.

[dig_duggler]

I'm derailing my own thread but - if you have an iPhone and a laptop (especially an apple one) I don't think you are Apple's target audience for an iPad (ignoring the people that will buy one just b/c it's apple or are genuinely intrigued by it. The book reader aspect has me interested, but the library is always free :)). IMHO the device will take off for people like you (and me) when developers figure out how to make something uber compelling for it. I'm with you - I see no need. But I see where the market could be and think it is foolish to underestimate Apple with regards to product launches. Been awhile since they had a stinker.

Think of it this way - someone could get an iPad and a 3G plan and have internet everywhere for lightweight things (browsing, email. see: parents) for a very, very cheap price (this data plan is a great rate, nothing really compares). No more home internet. For many, this is all they want. Yes it's locked down, yes there's no flash, but there is a pretty good market for that. No tiny screen, no contract.

[Johncv]

Not meaning to thread-jack, but I am afraid you missed it; hard to believe you're an Apple aficionado. The iPad is for anyone needing a computing appliance and doesn't want/need to lug around a laptop. This could be sales folk, doctors, nurses, lawyers, delivery folks, service personnel… anyone that needs a clipboard sized device to read, record, and communicate textual and graphical information.

Yes… you can do most of this on an iPhone now, but it is slow and just a wee bit clumsy. The iPad experience is pretty amazing in comparison.

The SDK show iSight and handwriting support. Job did not demonstrate everything that the iPad could probably do.

[Brainiac 5]

... think it is foolish to underestimate Apple with regards to product launches. Been awhile since they had a stinker.Well, it's been three years since Apple TV came out and didn't exactly set the world on fire. I guess it's in the eye of the beholder as to whether that was a "stinker" and whether three years is a while.

(I'm not saying the iPad won't do well - I think it's interesting and it's far too early to predict how it will do.)

[qlafferty]

Based on the language I am assuming they are bringing something new to the table. They mention 'Inventing the DVR' which makes me think that they are announcing something new that they have 'invented'.

Personally, I would like to see a new form of interactive TV. Something we have never seen before. I mean really thinking outside of the box.

I am multi-monitor user on the computer and I am starting to think that there should be more than one screen for my TV content. I hate PIP and split screens. I would rather have an additional screen for more content.

How about hooking an LCD monitor as a secondary screen that has a cool user interface showing active content related to the current program. You could do some pretty amazing stuff with sports using a setup like that. For non-sports content maybe some form of Wikipedia content for the show with actor info too. Social media content from your friends related to the show?

Of course I guess you could do all of that with an iPad like device, but then it would only be visible to a small number of people in the room.

Just a thought.

[solutionsetc]

Consider those not all that comfortable in putting their entire business on a laptop when traveling. When I am on the road, I need a VNC client, email, net access, and contact and schedule info (and perhaps some entertainment). A one and a half pound package with 10 hrs of battery life that fits in one hand sounds pretty attractive to me.

True… if you NEED a laptop this isn't for you. But there will be millions of people this will be the perfect traveler for, and millions more who need no more computer than this.

[MickeS]

Please, there are iPad threads in "Happy Hour" already.

[innocentfreak]

I am still wondering if the wording of the announcement is more to hook the people that got invites to try and get as much press there as possible. Since this wasn't TiVo putting it out there technically to the public, I think if their announcement isn't mind blowing or as impressive as "inventing the DVR" they get somewhat of a pass. It feels almost like your standard invite to try and get attendees.

Now if TiVo had released a press release that on March 2nd, 2010 with this kind of wording, this would fall more on them like the previous reference to the Segway.

It just feels like the opening line to the presentation.

[johndix]

I actually expect to see at least 3 of the following (some of which might be the same).
1. 802.11n device - has been around for long enough to get released
2. Tivo Premier - One of three items: DirecTivo, S4, or Best Buy Tivo
3. DirecTivo - It has got to be done sometime soon, I would expect.
4. New software including GUI - ~1.5? years from last update, a big one should be coming.
5. Best Buy Tivo - How long does it take to create a new box?

Obviously, all of those are opinions. However, I feel that they are not pie in the sky, like a lot of suggestions. These are all based on things that Tivo has announced is coming or has let slip (FCC/Manual). The final one being the software update. I find it very hard to believe they are done with the TivoHD/XL when it comes to updating software. My bet is instead of incremental updates they put all those on hold for a large one. Maybe that one is wishful thinking, but hey I'm hoping for a little more responsive interface.


Whatever it is, I hope it has a better quality than the XL. I bought a new one last July, needed a replacement in January and am now waiting for a replacement to the replacement. Hard Disc problems in both cases.

[nrc]

I'm kind of surprised that TiVo would set the bar so high in the invite. The fact that the announcment is in NY is intriguing and I agree that sounds like content.

The funny thing is that many here already had it as a certain that there was nothing more than a cost reduced HD coming (never bought that myself). Anything more would have been a pleasant surprise. Now this invite is going to be hard to live up to.

Should we go ahead and start a "disappointed" thread now. :D

[mattack]

It sounds exciting and all, but unless my original Series3 blows up and catches fire, I will not be an early adopter this time around. $800, screwed out of lifetime service, etc. No thanks.

Sorry, but how were you "screwed" out of lifetime service?

Don't get me wrong, I feel somewhat the same way as you do after paying about $850 total for a S3 including lifetime. (I think the $450-ish I paid for a TivoHD including lifetime is perfectly reasonable.)

But since no lifetime was available at the S3's introduction, I didn't get one... I *did* bite the hook when the lifetime transfer offer came around (and that's where I feel suckered, since I should have waited for the TivoHD one so I could do TWO transfers and saved about $400).. Though like I always say, I *do* like the screen on front of the S3. It's not worth $400 though. (and of course the mandatory *two* cablecards rather than 1 M card is another ding against the S3)

[mattack]

Don't expect any more media-from-PC streaming improvements/enhancements.

Do you really mean downloading rather than streaming in this part?

Maybe we'll get the "muxed MPEG2" thing to speed up transfer times.. Like others (was it Australia?) already have.

[DancnDude]

I am still wondering if the wording of the announcement is more to hook the people that got invites to try and get as much press there as possible. Since this wasn't TiVo putting it out there technically to the public, I think if their announcement isn't mind blowing or as impressive as "inventing the DVR" they get somewhat of a pass. It feels almost like your standard invite to try and get attendees.

Now if TiVo had released a press release that on March 2nd, 2010 with this kind of wording, this would fall more on them like the previous reference to the Segway.

It just feels like the opening line to the presentation.

I somewhat disagree. The press are the ones invited to this event. Of course TiVo expects that the press will pass this on to their readers/viewers. The wording is meant to create a big pre-event buzz, to get everybody excited about the conference.

They get no passes. They just need to deliver on their strong wording and it will be a big success. Otherwise there will be a lot of disappointment.

[innocentfreak]

Yeah I agree. I am just trying to convince myself otherwise so when the announcement isn't mind blowing I won't be disappointed.

[magnus]

I think it's going to be a big partnership to bring a free Tivo to the masses. I think it's going to be more than inventing.... it's going to be revolutionizing the DVR by bringing the Tivo to every household in some for or fashion.

Either free service (full of ads) or paid service (no ads/maybe even commercial skip).

[Generic]

Although I don't think this is the announcement, I would like to see the implementation of the cable VOD with Seachange that was in a press release last year. I don't know how much I would use it but I would like that option.

http://www.schange.com/News/TiVo,-SeaChange-Team-Up-to-Integrate-Cable-VOD-Off.aspx

[TWinbrook46636]

A headline like that is bound to make a lot of people disappointed. I hope I'm wrong and the announcement is really exciting but I'm prepared to be a little let down.

Here's hoping for at least a new HD user interface.

I sure hope it's not "Inventing the DVR was just the beginning... now we have invented a new way for you to track what advertisements your customers are watching!"

Hopefully it's new hardware with better performance, HD menu, triple tuners, etc. If they do that I'll buy at least two plus lifetime.

[DocNo]

the iPad is not even out yet, so how can you know what the experience* will be. So I guess this is pretty much like all the speculation over what TiVo will say march 2nd. :D

Unlike Tivo's faceless announcement, the iPad has been announced and there is hours of hands-on video of it in action on the 'net if you care to find it. Not that I think Apple has shown all they have up their sleeve - not by a long shot. In the end, all the speculation and prognostication won't amount to a hill of beans - it will be what it is when it does ship.

Tivo had better have something compelling or when my subs run out, I'm done. Moving on to Media center. The hardware will be about 30% more expensive, but I will be able to put as much storage as I want and media center extenders aren't restricted to stupid copy protection flags. Leave it to incompetent content providers to continually screw up the user experience :rolleyes:

If it is a new deal with DirecTV, I just hope the pricing is compatible with comcrap - I would love to drop them like a hot potato...

[DocNo]

http://tekgek.com/?p=11138

If they upgrade the S3 software and make it any slower than it is now, I'm also done. I was thrilled when I first got my S3, the UI was as responsive as the first Tivo I got with it's first software. Laggy UI bugs the hell out of me and will be my chief driver for leaving them - give me a way to opt out and stay where I am!

[Chris Gerhard]

I saw the teaser ad and came here to read speculation since I don't have a guess as to what is coming. I still don't but I agree whatever it is will be a disappointment to many. For me, I am happy with TiVoHD and OTA and hope for some new and better internet downloading options but know that can't be anything worthy of this hype by itself.

Chris

[innocentfreak]

According to this EngadgetHD post (http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/new-ui-tweaked-hardware-in-store-for-tivos-march-reveal/), the new UI is supposed to be as quick as the old Series 2. It is also rumored to have a Qwerty remote.

Other fixes that should have the faithful drooling are a capacity meter for add-on drives and Tivo Desktop enhancements including "Sling-esque" features.

This also leads me to believe we may see a capacity meter for the new TiVo also for those who want it. Then again with TiVo you never know.

[Ziggy86]

New UI? Do you think the series 3 and Tivo HD will get this too if it is true?

[schwinn]

I saw that post too, and this one (linked from the Engadget post):

http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/02/11/rumor-upcoming-tivo-improvements-include-ui-revamp-and-full-hd-support/

Faster hardware? That would be nice...
More Plugins/Addons? Even better... Hulu would be wonderful!

These upgrades might make me return the TivoHD I just bought and get that device instead...

[Flyinace2000]

Question:
My current TivoHD is about to activate a lifetime activation on 2/17. If i want to get this new box can i transfer it to that hardware?

[Flyinace2000]

My Answer!

Click here to see the special conditions for transferring Product Lifetime Service.

You can transfer Product Lifetime Service to another DVR only if:

* You activated the DVR with Product Lifetime Service less than 30 days ago.
* The DVR was exchanged under warranty, either through the retailer or the manufacturer.
* The DVR was activated under an incorrect service number.

[blacknoi]

My Answer!

Click here to see the special conditions for transferring Product Lifetime Service.

You can transfer Product Lifetime Service to another DVR only if:

* You activated the DVR with Product Lifetime Service less than 30 days ago.
* The DVR was exchanged under warranty, either through the retailer or the manufacturer.
* The DVR was activated under an incorrect service number.
Or until they start a new promotion (like they did with the series 3) "transfer your existing lifetime to the new unit for the price of ONLY 199" ...or whatever they might decide to offer ;)

[gastrof]

I think it's going to be a big partnership to bring a free Tivo to the masses. I think it's going to be more than inventing.... it's going to be revolutionizing the DVR by bringing the Tivo to every household in some for or fashion.

Either free service (full of ads) or paid service (no ads/maybe even commercial skip).

And how would "paid service" be different from how things are now?

I don't quite get what you mean.

[janry]

I think it's going to be a big partnership to bring a free Tivo to the masses. I think it's going to be more than inventing.... it's going to be revolutionizing the DVR by bringing the Tivo to every household in some for or fashion.

Either free service (full of ads) or paid service (no ads/maybe even commercial skip).

Maybe it's part of the stimulus package. :)

[Revolutionary]

This is going to be Hulu plus additional online content enhancements, plus the HD UI. And based on the Engadget piece, I'd guess that Tivo is going to leverage the zeitgeist obsession with "apps" to rebrand its Video-on-Demand and home network features as Apps. Which means we will officially be unable to escape the word.

I'd bet a hundy on Hulu -- when Tivo does NYC announcements, they are about content and software (like the KidZone announcement a few years back). Top of the Rock means NBC, and NBC means Hulu. Forget Comcast -- that deal hasn't been approved yet, so this won't be Comcast related. My guess is that Tivo scored Hulu on-device exclusivity for a time. The real question is whether Hulu will cost extra (like Rhapsody and One True Media), or will it be gratis with the Tivo subscription (remember, Hulu is moving to a subscription model).

Of course, I'd probably also take the downside and bet a hundy that I'm wrong...

[MickeS]

I sure hope it's not "Inventing the DVR was just the beginning... now we have invented a new way for you to track what advertisements your customers are watching!"

This is actually more what I expect from TiVo... anything REALLY new or inventive is a bonus.

[Brainiac 5]

I'd bet a hundy on HuluIf that's it, I just hope it doesn't have the problems that many people have seen with Rhapsody and Netflix.

[AbMagFab]

"Inventing the DVR was just the beginning.., perfecting is what comes next..."

[innocentfreak]

on my phone so csnt link, but engadgethd has a new article up about some new tivo patents.

[myyours]

I'll buy whatever they introduce as long as the words "no more cablecards" or "100% fool-proof cablecard support" are included somewhere.

[MediaLivingRoom]

1. TiVo will just have a TiVo server farm that will record every channel and every hour in the USA all converted to H.264 standard and HD.
2. Then the TiVo Series 4 (CableCard required) will just be a networked version only.
3. TiVo Series 4 can download any TV hour or hours based on your ZIP code and Cable Provider on your CableCard from TiVo.com as On-Demand, but with all the local commercials to keep the cable providers from complaining.
4. TiVo.com will play back all shows based on the same requirement from item 3.

[netringer]

Hulu(and more internet based content) and ability to play your tivo content on mobile phones.

Yeppers. This is gonna be it.

More (ALL!) online content.

And I will like!

[AbMagFab]

1. TiVo will just have a TiVo server farm that will record every channel and every hour in the USA all converted to H.264 standard and HD.
2. Then the TiVo Series 4 (CableCard required) will just be a networked version only.
3. TiVo Series 4 can download any TV hour or hours based on your ZIP code and Cable Provider on your CableCard from TiVo.com as On-Demand, but with all the local commercials to keep the cable providers from complaining.
4. TiVo.com will play back all shows based on the same requirement from item 3.

Awesome... except didn't Cablevision get prohibited from doing almost exactly this, a couple years ago?

And I don't trust any provider to do this well enough. I want my content in my house.

[netringer]

...Should we go ahead and start a "disappointed" thread now. :D

Yep. Per the usual "yeah-but-almost" disappointment we always get from TiVo.. it WILL be Hulu - and Hulu only - about 3 months before Comcast tears through Hulu like Godzilla tears through Tokyo to destroy Hulu forever.

[bschuler2007]

WebTV 2.0.. cuz WebTV 1.0 was such an astrounding success.

[dylanemcgregor]

I'd bet a hundy on Hulu -- when Tivo does NYC announcements, they are about content and software (like the KidZone announcement a few years back). Top of the Rock means NBC, and NBC means Hulu. Forget Comcast -- that deal hasn't been approved yet, so this won't be Comcast related. My guess is that Tivo scored Hulu on-device exclusivity for a time. The real question is whether Hulu will cost extra (like Rhapsody and One True Media), or will it be gratis with the Tivo subscription (remember, Hulu is moving to a subscription model).

Hulu's NY offices are about 15 blocks south of "The Rock" but not quite as impressive.

[janry]

Breaking news: They will put a clock on the front of the box.

[kas25]

Breaking news: They will put a clock on the front of the box.
and caller ID!

[janry]

From the Engadget patent write-up:

...The basic idea of the patent is to use embedded meta data in TV broadcasts, primarily the closed caption text, to create "event identification data" that makes the DVR -- when synced up against related data online -- smarter about the content. Example uses include overlaying interactive ads from the content provider, creating "tagged" video files for viewing on a portable device, extracting tagged clips, or even "sharing" segments with other TiVo users.

Could this information be used to automatically adjust starting times when a program doesn't start on time due to a previous program running late, or to extend the recording time when a sporting event runs longer than the scheduled time?

[SCSIRAID]

and caller ID!

On Screen caller ID would be nice.

[netringer]

You don't suppose the word "Crackle" could have anything to do with it?

[ZeoTiVo]

From the Engadget patent write-up:



Could this information be used to automatically adjust starting times when a program doesn't start on time due to a previous program running late, or to extend the recording time when a sporting event runs longer than the scheduled time?

yes indeedy

[magnus]

There would be no advertisements whatsoever. I already said that so I'm not sure why you did not get the meaning. This would satisfy those that really hate the commercials.

And how would "paid service" be different from how things are now?

I don't quite get what you mean.

[DancnDude]

Breaking news: They will put a clock on the front of the box.

Ummm the Series 3 TiVos from 3 years ago did that. And displayed the shows that are currently recording. The HD models don't, but this would not really be all that new.

[blacknoi]

On Screen caller ID would be nice.

But the tivo premier doesn't have a rj11 jack right? :(

[janry]

Ummm the Series 3 TiVos from 3 years ago did that. And displayed the shows that are currently recording. The HD models don't, but this would not really be all that new.

I was just being sarcastic.

[petew]

From the Engadget patent write-up:



Could this information be used to automatically adjust starting times when a program doesn't start on time due to a previous program running late, or to extend the recording time when a sporting event runs longer than the scheduled time?

A system to transmit the ID of the currently airing program was implemented in the UK 10-15 years ago. At the time Tivo declined to support it. IIRC correctly it's easy to use if the program being recorded is extended, but the logic of how to handle conflicts when a scheduled program is delayed is more complex and in the UK system Tivo had to tune to the channel to be able to read the program data, so couldn't check other channels while a program was being recorded.

[janry]

Awesome... except didn't Cablevision get prohibited from doing almost exactly this, a couple years ago?


I believe that ruling was overturned late last year.

[SCSIRAID]

But the tivo premier doesn't have a rj11 jack right? :(

Oops.... Details details... :D

[PaulS]

I believe that ruling was overturned late last year.

Yup. Cablevision is trying to roll out their RS-DVR stuff after the original ruling was overturned last year.

[refried]

Breaking news: They will put a clock on the front of the box.

That's the feature I miss most from my Series 2 Humax DVD recorder.

[TWinbrook46636]

But the tivo premier doesn't have a rj11 jack right? :(

Maybe the TiVo Premiere XXL will. :p

[angelobanjo]

There would be no advertisements whatsoever. I already said that so I'm not sure why you did not get the meaning. This would satisfy those that really hate the commercials.


Originally Posted by gastrof View Post
And how would "paid service" be different from how things are now?

I don't quite get what you mean.



The fact that they are ALREADY double-dipping might rule this out. You think they are really going to go for making less money?! I can't imagine Tivo working something out with the content providers so that we can do away completely by paying a monthly subscription without any advertising whatsoever.

Nice to dream though...

[walkingdogs]

Not meaning to thread-jack, but I am afraid you missed it; hard to believe you're an Apple aficionado. The iPad is for anyone needing a computing appliance and doesn't want/need to lug around a laptop. This could be sales folk, doctors, nurses, lawyers, delivery folks, service personnel… anyone that needs a clipboard sized device to read, record, and communicate textual and graphical information.

Yes… you can do most of this on an iPhone now, but it is slow and just a wee bit clumsy. The iPad experience is pretty amazing in comparison.

The only way those people are going to be able to use the ipad for those purposes is if they get or have apps provided through the appstore since you can't install 3rd party apps any other way. The hospitals I've worked at all use windows based applications that wouldn't work on the OS api. The ipad also can't connect to printers which would be crucial for nurses or doctors to be able to do. Apple has/will never cater to the business world and don't begin to think that the ipad will change that. The business world is Microsoft's territory with some Linux/unix used for specialized purposes. The ipad is a big iphone and not a laptop replacement. It would need codec support, multitasking, flash support, external storage options, peripheral ability, and the ability to install your own purchased apps to be able to do half of the things a laptop, netbook, or tablet can.

[solutionsetc]

The only way those people are going to be able to use the ipad for those purposes is if they get or have apps provided through the appstore since you can't install 3rd party apps any other way.

Tell that to enterprise using their own custom applications on iPhone.

Apple has/will never cater to the business world and don't begin to think that the ipad will change that.

Why not? The iPhone has... and there seems to be enough interest to warrant an enterprise tier for iPhone devs.

[Wil]

The ipad is a big iphone and not a laptop replacement. It would need codec support, multitasking, flash support, external storage options, peripheral ability, and the ability to install your own purchased apps to be able to do half of the things a laptop, netbook, or tablet can.Nice walk down Memory Lane. The iPad is clearly not a 1980s/90s appliance.

Whether it well-serves any personal and/or business needs of the 2010's is something we'll know in a couple of years.

[rmsilver7]

My needs are basic, I would like to see the ability to plugin any external eSATA hard drive into the unit without having to rip it apart to get it to work, or buy an "official" one unless I think I am going to need support.

VOD would be nice, but whatever. I wouldn't mind seeing the quad recording option, but that I doubt is going to happen. I would like to see the price be under $299 for anything, I think the HD XL for $499 is insane.

[Johncv]

This is going to be Hulu plus additional online content enhancements, plus the HD UI. And based on the Engadget piece, I'd guess that Tivo is going to leverage the zeitgeist obsession with "apps" to rebrand its Video-on-Demand and home network features as Apps. Which means we will officially be unable to escape the word.

I'd bet a hundy on Hulu -- when Tivo does NYC announcements, they are about content and software (like the KidZone announcement a few years back). Top of the Rock means NBC, and NBC means Hulu. Forget Comcast -- that deal hasn't been approved yet, so this won't be Comcast related. My guess is that Tivo scored Hulu on-device exclusivity for a time. The real question is whether Hulu will cost extra (like Rhapsody and One True Media), or will it be gratis with the Tivo subscription (remember, Hulu is moving to a subscription model).

Of course, I'd probably also take the downside and bet a hundy that I'm wrong...

“Top of the Rock” means NBC? :confused: Please explain. Why would this NOT involve Comcast, they are attempting to buy Universal/NBC (as you say pending approval). As long as were speculating how about a deal between TiVo and Comcast, where Comcast changes all their cable boxes to TiVo boxes. :eek: Now that would be game changer.

[MickeS]

“Top of the Rock” means NBC? :confused: Please explain.
"The Rock" = Rockefeller Center = NBC headquarters.

[MediaLivingRoom]

NBC is buying TiVo, so by proxy Comcast will own TiVo. Then Jack Donaghy will run TiVo as CEO of East Coast Television and Microwave Oven Programming for TiVo. by the way, he worked the day shift at a graveyard, and the graveyard shift at a Days Inn during his youth.

[stmckin]

I saw a leak earlier today that said :
-HD interface update
-qwerty device
-comcast rollout

if they dont get the first two out the door.... sometime soon someone is going to make a big dent like MS turning on HD internet TV in Media Center or something

[MediaLivingRoom]

TiVo HD-Pad

[walkingdogs]

Nice walk down Memory Lane. The iPad is clearly not a 1980s/90s appliance.

Whether it well-serves any personal and/or business needs of the 2010's is something we'll know in a couple of years.

I didn't realize multitasking was something not expected in the 2010's. This isn't the era of windows 3.1. I also didn't realize that not supporting one of the web's most used multimedia standards was so yesterday. It sucks that I can't take the memory card out of my digital camera and import the pictures to the ipad and then email the pictures off to friends or upload them to an online service. Want to watch a DVD, oops, can't do that. Already own a piece of software for Mac, damn, again can't use it. Sorry if I expect to do what I want with a $500 minimum device and not what a company tells me. You apple supporters are irrational in your beliefs that whatever apple tells me is the way it's going to be and I should just march to the beat of that drum. This is why apple will NEVER have a majority market share in the business world. Businesses dictate what Microsoft does and not the other way around and this is why they are successful. And for integrating into any enterprise in any major fashion requires Active Directory integration, ability to access network resources and a multitude of other things that the ipad won't be able to do.

[Wil]

Sorry if I expect to do what I want with a $500 minimum device and not what a company tells meAgreed. I think it sucks when you buy a refrigerator and it doesn't broil a turkey.

[walkingdogs]

Agreed. I think it sucks when you buy a refrigerator and it doesn't broil a turkey.

No it would suck if I bought an oven and it ONLY broiled a turkey. At least come up with a good analogy.

[stmckin]

No it would suck if I bought an oven and it ONLY broiled a turkey. At least come up with a good analogy.

lol EXACTLY

[Wil]

Sorry if I expect to do what I want with a $500 minimum device and not what a company tells me.sic

[billboard_NE]

No it will be ultra cool since I just got an XL box with lifetime subscription! :D

Plus one, I upgraded my SII to a dual tuner SII, just in time for FIOS to kill clear broadcast channels on their cable turning my TIVO back to a single tuner. OK so I live with that for a couple of years and just about two months ago I upgraded to a HD and added a 1TB external drive.

So here comes the best Tivo ever that I will need to wait a few years before I upgrade again.

[aaronwt]

On Screen caller ID would be nice.



Wouldn't you then need a phone line connected to the TiVo for CID? Why would I connect a phone line to a TiVo?

[SCSIRAID]

Wouldn't you then need a phone line connected to the TiVo for CID? Why would I connect a phone line to a TiVo?

for onscreeen callerid? :D Sounds like its moot anyway...

[mattack]

If they upgrade the S3 software and make it any slower than it is now, I'm also done. I was thrilled when I first got my S3, the UI was as responsive as the first Tivo I got with it's first software. Laggy UI bugs the hell out of me and will be my chief driver for leaving them - give me a way to opt out and stay where I am!

I only use my S3 & TivoHD for their TV recording/playback capabilities (i.e. none of the networked stuff, yet).

Could you explain what is laggy there?

I guess I'm comparing it to a S1, where in most cases the S3 & TivoHD are WAY FASTER.
(UNfortunately, in many specific ways, like folders populating while using them, that speed made the UI *much* less polished.. But in this case, I'm gladly giving up the polish for the speed.)

[zalusky]

for onscreeen callerid? :D Sounds like its moot anyway...

How about the iPhone transmitting it's callerID info via Wifi to the Tivo and displaying that for those people cutting the cord.

[mattack]

The ipad also can't connect to printers which would be crucial for nurses or doctors to be able to do.

Buzz wrong false.. (at least based upon the precedent of the iPhone)

I have printed from an iPhone to a networked printer. The free "Coupons" app does it, for one example.


and the ability to install your own purchased apps to be able to do half of the things a laptop, netbook, or tablet can.

You do realize the iPhone/iPod touch *ALREADY* have the capability for institutions to download apps FROM PLACES OTHER THAN THE APP STORE, right?

[AllYourBase]

But the tivo premier doesn't have a rj11 jack right? :(The premiere has an optional USB modem.

[Brainiac 5]

I didn't realize multitasking was something not expected in the 2010's. This isn't the era of windows 3.1.In fact, Windows 3.1 had multitasking...

[ZeoTiVo]

I didn't realize multitasking was something not expected in the 2010's. .
well yeah, I mean look at how there is a rehash of the Apple iPad anouncement while at the same time speculating on the TiVo march 2nd anouncement. Multitasking is the only way

[tootal2]

In fact, Windows 3.1 had multitasking...

yep, and it also ran on top of dos. i miss dos:(

[Leon WIlkinson]

All TiVos will be tied into a master "to do list" so all tuners would be used when setting up a recording

All your TiVos recording will be shown on all now playing lists the none native recordings would be highlight/marked, and would be streamed directly for viewing.

Plus, TiVo will be able to auto-transfer shows from a low space unit, to a unit
with more space on it.

[DBLClick]

All in one media set top box replacement. Four tuners, MoCA with Tru2Way would be awesome box.

[jcthorne]

Hmm...I wonder. Why Rockefeller Center for the announcement?

Announcement in NYC suggests content to me rather than hardware.

Yep. Rockefeller center IS NBC. Comcast/NBC/Tivo and control of your tv....

Its going to be a large expansion of direct access content combining Comcast VOD services and NBC content presented on a new streamlined Tivo.

I think those that are looking for upgraded hardware are going to be dissapointed here.

[netringer]

... I also didn't realize that not supporting one of the web's most used multimedia standards was so yesterday...

http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p197/netringer/inigomontoya.jpg

You keep using this word.
I do not think it means what you think it means.

[Revolutionary]

For the love of God, can we please not inject an argument about the freaking iPad into every thread on this forum?

[Revolutionary]

Yep. Rockefeller center IS NBC. Comcast/NBC/Tivo and control of your tv....

Its going to be a large expansion of direct access content combining Comcast VOD services and NBC content presented on a new streamlined Tivo.

I think those that are looking for upgraded hardware are going to be dissapointed here.

Comcast will not be involved if NBC is involved, and the location suggest NBC will (but we could just be wrong about that). That deal is pending anti-trust approval. It wouldn't look good to regulators for Comcast to be participating in content deals with NBC and a third party at this point.

[dig_duggler]

I agree that the placing of this makes the NBC thing look very possible, which makes me think a Hulu integration is highly possible. Something like that would bring Hulu to the TV for the average consumer (yes, you can hook up a computer but there is a small segment willing to do that) and that kind of would be game changing. Perhaps a nominal subscription fee, and you get access to all of Hulu's content. Hulu's head honchos have been wanting to charge for it's use, and this is a good way forward for them. OTA + Hulu? No cable required. I could see selling this as the next step in TV entertainment if you couple in a few other announcements. Nothing groundbreaking per se, but a realistic way forward. After all the headaches the cable companies have given them over cable cards, this would seem as good a workaround as any.

[stmckin]

I agree that the placing of this makes the NBC thing look very possible, which makes me think a Hulu integration is highly possible. Something like that would bring Hulu to the TV for the average consumer (yes, you can hook up a computer but there is a small segment willing to do that) and that kind of would be game changing. Perhaps a nominal subscription fee, and you get access to all of Hulu's content. Hulu's head honchos have been wanting to charge for it's use, and this is a good way forward for them. OTA + Hulu? No cable required. I could see selling this as the next step in TV entertainment if you couple in a few other announcements. Nothing groundbreaking per se, but a realistic way forward. After all the headaches the cable companies have given them over cable cards, this would seem as good a workaround as any.

I agree... but, OTA is slowly getting exterminated, so network / traditional cable content content will ultimately get delivered via a monetized pipe (like always) .... Tivo should be making the step to be a comprehensive pipe like Uverse if they were smart

[generaltso]

How do we know it's not on Alcatraz island. Isn't that also "The Rock"?

[parzec]

I didn't think it was "true" Multitasking, but rather task switching. But I could be confusing it with a previous version.... Nevertheless, my Amiga 1000 was true multitasking environment and out years before Microsoft stole the Windows idea from Mac and before Gates even gave multitasking a second thought.

But this makes me think that Tivo is unfortunately analogous to Amiga in that both were better than anything else on the market and ahead of their time, but for some reason were not able to achieve widespread acceptance by the consumer. I just hope Tivo won't take the same path...

[netringer]

I agree that the placing of this makes the NBC thing look very possible, which makes me think a Hulu integration is highly possible. Something like that would bring Hulu to the TV for the average consumer (yes, you can hook up a computer but there is a small segment willing to do that) and that kind of would be game changing. Perhaps a nominal subscription fee, and you get access to all of Hulu's content. Hulu's head honchos have been wanting to charge for it's use, and this is a good way forward for them. OTA + Hulu? No cable required. I could see selling this as the next step in TV entertainment if you couple in a few other announcements. Nothing groundbreaking per se, but a realistic way forward. After all the headaches the cable companies have given them over cable cards, this would seem as good a workaround as any.
The cablecos are going to stomp their widdle feet about the end around that would be. Watch for them to threaten the carriage of NBC/Universal cable channels.

And I still say Comcast will put a pay/cable subscriber wall on Hulu.

There are and will be more streaming sites like Hulu (Crackle!), so that will limit the power of the cablecos, too, if TiVo signs with more than one.

The long tail is coming!

Think about the vast library. Crackle has the 10-20 year old narrow-cast Brilliant But Cancelled shows. There are a tons of those around that are too narrow interest for TV land or The U. And the BBC has already announced(made?) ALL old content to be available online, I guess for the UK only for now.

I'd have a ball discovering all the one season and gone series I missed, like, NBC did run "Brilliant But Cancelled" and I LOVED "Action." I watched and enjoyed all Journeyman on the TiVo after it was gone. How many poster have we had who are watching series on DVD a year later?

Gonna be great!

[sdzc]

All I gotta say is that it better be in the $99-$149 range for me to get excited. With the switch to all digital and Comcast's BS fees for cablecards or additional outlets or digital fees, there is no way I can either:

1) Pay too much to replace 4 SD Tivo's with new Tivo's
2) Pay too much to get Comcast's crap DVR's that no one seems to like.

[Brainiac 5]

Nevertheless, my Amiga 1000 was true multitasking environment and out years before Microsoft stole the Windows idea from Mac and before Gates even gave multitasking a second thought. Well, don't forget that before Microsoft stole the idea from Apple, Apple stole the idea from Xerox.

But this makes me think that Tivo is unfortunately analogous to Amiga in that both were better than anything else on the market and ahead of their time, but for some reason were not able to achieve widespread acceptance by the consumer. I just hope Tivo won't take the same path...Yes, the TiVo situation does seem to be a bit like the Amiga - I hope too that it won't share the same fate. :(

[nrc]

All I gotta say is that it better be in the $99-$149 range for me to get excited. With the switch to all digital and Comcast's BS fees for cablecards or additional outlets or digital fees, there is no way I can either:

1) Pay too much to replace 4 SD Tivo's with new Tivo's
2) Pay too much to get Comcast's crap DVR's that no one seems to like.

You are very likely to be disappointed. There's just no profit in that price point for a piece of gear that needs a hard drive, multiple tuners, and enough horsepower to drive an HD interface smoothly. I expect that TiVo will keep their bottom end unit around the $200 mark and top end under $500. Maybe if TiVo offers some kind of extender that could come in under $150, otherwise I think you're out of luck.

[reubanks]

Nevertheless, my Amiga 1000 was true multitasking environment and out years before Microsoft stole the Windows idea from Mac and before Gates even gave multitasking a second thought.

Microsoft first introduced Windows in November 1985
The Amiga 1000 was introduced on July 24, 1985
The first Macintosh was introduced on January 24, 1984

Somehow I find it difficult to call four months "years", but to each his own.

(and of course this was because Commodore stole the Atari crew to design the new Commodores and Ol' Jack left Commodore and bought Atari.) The pedigree of these computers gets really muddy at times. Don't even get me started on the NeXT cube or BeOS... Hmm, maybe I'll go download Haiku.

Randy

[TWinbrook46636]

Well, don't forget that before Microsoft stole the idea from Apple, Apple stole the idea from Xerox.


Apple bought it from Xerox in a stock deal. Xerox had no interest in what that division was working on and was glad to see it go. The thought that anyone would use something called a "mouse" was absurd to them. Their loss. Microsoft on the other hand actually stole the Mac OS when Apple foolishly lent them prototype Macs to use in creating Microsoft applications for it. Of course these days Apple and Microsoft just buy up smaller companies and assimilate them.

I would love to see Flash die off. It is the most overused non-standard on the web. Any time I have problems with Firefox it's due to Flash. I wouldn't mind seeing it as an optional install with an on/off toggle on the iPhone and iPad but there are better ways to do a website. Multitasking? The more apps you run the slower it will be. A computer can handle it but you don't really want that on a smartphone. Maybe to a limited extent for things that are not processor intensive.

How did we get on the subject of the iPad? Oh yeah. Because of the hype leading up to its launch and the inevitable letdown. Creating a lot of hype can be a big mistake if you don't deliver. Sometimes that hype is created by the media or rumor sites as with the iPad. TiVo did not say anything about CES but we were all expecting new hardware thanks to the TiVo Premiere leak and seeing as how they went through the time and expense of actually being there. Look what that got us. An announcement on how advertisers can exploit the platform. Yippee! This time around they are actually creating hype with their "Inventing the DVR was only the beginning" invite. The more hype surrounding a new product the more people will assume it will fulfill all their needs. Everyone seems to have a particular pet peeve with the iPad be it lack of Flash, screen resolution, etc. The same will be true for the next TiVo if that's even what the plan to announce. Inventing the DVR was only the beginning? This must be huge! Surely it will have at least 3 tuners maybe more. Tru2way is a definite. This is going to be incredible! Right? :confused:

[jmemmott]

Apple bought it from Xerox in a stock deal. Xerox had no interest in what that division was working on and was glad to see it go. The thought that anyone would use something called a "mouse" was absurd to them. Their loss. Microsoft on the other hand actually stole the Mac OS when Apple foolishly lent them prototype Macs to use in creating Microsoft applications for it. Of course these days Apple and Microsoft just buy up smaller companies and assimilate them.


And Digital Research had GEM (Graphical Environment Manager) which was was demoed at the November 1983 COMDEX as an application environment and released as an OS in 1985. Since I was there, I know that it was written by engineers who had left Xerox PARC bringing the concept of a GUI/WIMP with them. Xerox did not patent the work and perhaps could not have done so since many of the innovations such as the mouse-driven cursors and multiple windows date back to earlier work at SRI under the "Augmenting Human Intellect" project.

GEM still made Apple so unhappy that it resulted in a lawsuit that only managed to remove the wastepaper basket and some other specific images leaving most of the MacOS like on-screen layout and functionality under the classification of preexisting public technology.

At that time there were at least a half dozen other WIMP environments in various stages of development I also examined as part of my job. The idea had already spread far and wide under Xerox's open and cooperative policies. There was never a need for stealth or theft on anyone's part.

[Raj]

Wouldn't you then need a phone line connected to the TiVo for CID? Why would I connect a phone line to a TiVo?

I had onscreen Caller ID in my DirecTiVo Series 1 via the elseed/yac hack. It also allowed me to have CID popup on my PC with the TiVo receiving the CID data from the phone line and transmitting it over the LAN.

[dig_duggler]

How do we know it's not on Alcatraz island. Isn't that also "The Rock"?

Top of the Rock (http://www.topoftherocknyc.com/) is at 30 Rockefeller Plaza, NYC

[Brainiac 5]

Apple bought it from Xerox in a stock deal.No, they didn't. Apple gave Xerox stock in exchange for letting Apple's engineers visit Xerox and see what they were working on. They didn't sell any rights to Apple, probably because at the time it hadn't occurred to anyone to try to "own" something like the idea of a graphical user interface. In any case, after Apple sued Microsoft, Xerox sued Apple, but the suit was dismissed because Xerox was deemed to have waited too long to assert rights over the technology.

I would love to see Flash die off. It is the most overused non-standard on the web. Any time I have problems with Firefox it's due to Flash.I've always wondered when people talk about this, because I've never experienced any problems whatsoever with Flash. That doesn't mean other people don't, but I've never seen it myself.

How did we get on the subject of the iPad? Oh yeah. Because of the hype leading up to its launch and the inevitable letdown... Inventing the DVR was only the beginning? This must be huge! Surely it will have at least 3 tuners maybe more. Tru2way is a definite. This is going to be incredible! Right? :confused:Agreed - if they hype it too much, they'll set people's expectations so high that it won't be possible to live up to them, just like so many people complain about the iPad because it doesn't slice bread or take out the trash.

[stmckin]

win3.1 is coop multitask which is a fancy way of saying 'we arent really multitasking, just thread switching every little bit'.... the second kind of multitask is pre-emptive which is priority based and became available in win9x, but wasn't really usable till win2k...

The only shrinkwrap OS that was hot multitasking back then was OS2... in 1992 it behaved about like windows 2000 (8 years ahead!)... but again as someone pointed out... the best tech solution almost never wins


Flash is the number one performance problem Ive had in IE8 and FF3.x... it really really sucks... the new FF version + flash is the worst performing current browser. No flash= instantaneous rendering on either

I never thought I'd get there, but Silverlight + IE8 is gettin good... just check out the olympics website.... MS is gonna turn on HD Internet TV on Media Center with Silverlight and it's gonna be smoking hot....

which getting back to topic is a major strategic threat to Tivo

[burdellgp]

Windows 3.1 did have preemptive multitasking, just not for Windows apps (only DOS boxes were preemptively multitasked).

[bspahn]

Window NT 3.1 was the first OS from Microsoft that had preemptive multitasking. Windows 95 was the first 'consumer' OS that had preemptive multitasking. In DOS you could used a TSR to give the appearance of multitasking.

[RayChuang88]

Trying to avoid this issue again, http://www.en.kolobok.us/smiles/standart/offtopic.gif I have to ask this question: should I hold off getting a TiVo HD and wait for the Series 4 TiVo instead? Hopefully, the new TiVo box will have Tru2Way support so the TiVo box can do everything with my Comcast cable connection, including On Demand and a true program guide.

[reubanks]

I don't think someone else should answer that for you until we KNOW what is being announced in March.

Randy

[Brainiac 5]

should I hold off getting a TiVo HD and wait for the Series 4 TiVo instead? Hopefully, the new TiVo box will have Tru2Way support so the TiVo box can do everything with my Comcast cable connection, including On Demand and a true program guide.If it was me, I'd at least wait until March 2nd to see what TiVo has to say. However, I wouldn't expect Tru2Way - I don't think the cable companies are ready for it except in a few test markets.

[wmcbrine]

Yeah, as I've said before, I don't even think the Premiere will be a Series 4. But it's got to be coming soon, and it may be worth waiting for. March 2nd is less than three weeks away.

[bschuler2007]

Depends, do you have less than 2 weeks to live? Your smart to wait.. not waiting is kinda dumb IMHO. Heck, I'd wait 2 weeks to see a new model of a can opener before buying one, but then again, I have something called patience.

[nrc]

TiVo may never create a "Series 4". I don't think they've been particularly thrilled with the nomenclature and they've been looking for new ways to name their products.

But if this box has a new generation SOC then it's what would have been called a "Series 4" whether or not if fits the fictional notion of what that should be that's been created on this forum. Particularly the notion that a "Series 4" would necessarily be a Tru2Way box. Tru2Way shows signs of being an even bigger flop than cable cards. I can't see TiVo pushing out a product at this point that supports just 3 or 4 markets.

Certainly a Tru2Way TiVo doesn't match the level of hype that they've created with their invitation. To do that they're going to need to have created a box that takes their idea of a converged content box further than anything we've seen to date. It's going to need to be greater than the sum of the all the parts they already have.

I'm hopeful, but I'm not holding my breath.

[AbMagFab]

It's all about social media integrated into TV watching... I can comment on a TV show (using the new keyboard remote), and then when my "friends" watch the TV show, they can see my comments at those particular parts of the show. while they watch it, at a totally different time.

Cool idea!

[RayChuang88]

If it was me, I'd at least wait until March 2nd to see what TiVo has to say. However, I wouldn't expect Tru2Way - I don't think the cable companies are ready for it except in a few test markets.

Tru2way support was a bit of wishful thinking. :o

But I will hold off until March 2, 2010, so let's see what TiVo rolls out then. Hopefully, the new DVR will have lower prices for the 500 GB or 1 TB model, since it will essentially replace my VCR.

[Scyber]

Just a note. "The Weather Room" in Rockefeller center is a venue that is available to rent for events to just about anyone (that can afford it). It is booked frequently for various corporate & private events. So just b/c the TiVo event is there, doesn't guarantee that there is going to be a Tie-in with NBC in this announcement.

[tivohaydon]

It's all about social media integrated into TV watching... I can comment on a TV show (using the new keyboard remote), and then when my "friends" watch the TV show, they can see my comments at those particular parts of the show. while they watch it, at a totally different time.

Cool idea!I'm not sure whether that was sarcasm or not. In any case, the following is sarcasm.. :)

They've got dogs that tweet and blog, why not TiVos? It'll be great. Your TiVo can tweet things like:

"I'm recording Stargate again. My owner is a real geek - he gave it three thumbs up."
"Right now we're watching Co-Ed Confidential, I guess the missus isn't home yet."
"I was just scheduled to record three hours of the shopping channel - WTF!?"
"This tweet was brought to you by Dominos. Got 30 minutes? I'll order one for you."

The best thing about this that the average blog has a readership of one (the author)... If we get enough TiVos, pets and other devices blogging and tweeting we can get that average readership down to zero!


An appeal to TiVo - please, please stay away from adding "features" such as social anything. Please improve the basic features of the device and deliver new ways to enjoy TV, movies and media.

[dig_duggler]

It's all about social media integrated into TV watching... I can comment on a TV show (using the new keyboard remote), and then when my "friends" watch the TV show, they can see my comments at those particular parts of the show. while they watch it, at a totally different time.

Cool idea!

I think you have something given all the info out there. Kind of cool, but not really a game changer.

[netringer]

No, they didn't. Apple gave Xerox stock in exchange for letting Apple's engineers visit Xerox and see what they were working on. They didn't sell any rights to Apple, probably because at the time it hadn't occurred to anyone to try to "own" something like the idea of a graphical user interface. In any case, after Apple sued Microsoft, Xerox sued Apple, but the suit was dismissed because Xerox was deemed to have waited too long to assert rights over the technology...

Right. I think in one of Cringley's documentaries they interview the actual Xerox engineer/facility head who was ordered by the suits to give Steve Jobs a tour and demo. She said she wouldn't do it, "Send me an order in writing." They did.

Steve was floored and went off to build the Macintosh with a small hand-selected team at Apple.

Xerox management was an amazing set of fools, Xerox PARC also invented Ethernet and Laser Printing but Xerox also did jack all with those because management said they were in the copier business and had no use for these toys. I hope they got nice bonuses.

[vman41]

I've always wondered when people talk about this, because I've never experienced any problems whatsoever with Flash. That doesn't mean other people don't, but I've never seen it myself.

My biggest problem with flash is the annoying things they do with it.

[mfogarty5]

It's all about social media integrated into TV watching... I can comment on a TV show (using the new keyboard remote), and then when my "friends" watch the TV show, they can see my comments at those particular parts of the show. while they watch it, at a totally different time.

Cool idea!

That's not a cool idea. Its an awful idea.

Tech companies have been trying for years to get "interactive tv" off the ground and time and time again consumers have shown that if they want interactivity they will use their computer and when they want to veg out they watch tv.

Here's what I think there is a realistic list of some of the things that will be announced.

Hardware

1. New lower cost 2 tuner model with 500GB hard drive based on Broadcom's newest chip.
2. Moca built-in so that neither ethernet nor wireless is required.

Software
1. New HD UI.
2. "Apps" for things like Netflix, Blockbuster, Hulu, etc.
3. Streaming TiVo to TiVo functionality(using the new built-in Moca) that avoids the TWC copy once issue.
4. Unified NPL and season passes if more than one TiVo is present.
5. Maybe VOD functionality. This would probably require MSO assistance.

It's also possible that TiVo will introduce a server client model like Moxi has done with their DVR. The problem with the Moxi is that the Cisco tuning adapter is limited to two tuners meaning that the 3 tuner Moxi loses a tuner in most TWC areas. This is why I think TiVo will opt to go with two tuner DVRs with some sort of software based unification.

[AbMagFab]

That's not a cool idea. Its an awful idea.

Tech companies have been trying for years to get "interactive tv" off the ground and time and time again consumers have shown that if they want interactivity they will use their computer and when they want to veg out they watch tv.

And the world never changes.

And closed-minded old people stuck in the way-things-have-always-been are always replaced with young (minded) people who are open-minded and challenge the norm.

[pdhenry]

And the world never changes.

And closed-minded old people stuck in the way-things-have-always-been are always replaced with young (minded) people who are open-minded and challenge the norm.Arrogant much?

[DocNo]

For the love of God, can we please not inject an argument about the freaking iPad into every thread on this forum?

hehe... give it up. You can't control other's actions - all you can do ignore that which annoys you. Ironically by bringing it up again, you will probably spawn off a whole 'nother sub-thread. Like this :)

[AbMagFab]

Arrogant much?

The all-too-often cry of people left behind as the world changes in front of them...

[DocNo]

Steve was floored and went off to build the Macintosh with a small hand-selected team at Apple.

Actually, the team had already been there and they took Steve there to get him on board. Remember, the Lisa was started and shipped before the Mac.

Some more details on why the visit was significant, but hardly critical in the creation of the Mac and not just a "copy" as the urban internet legends like to make it:

http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=On_Xerox,_Apple_and_Progress.txt

It's funny, reading back on the back and forth between Apple and Microsoft (http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?project=Macintosh&story=A_Rich_Neighbor_Named_Xerox.tx) and how Tivo had similar issues with Dish/Echostar - except for Tivo, their way to create a cost effective DVR with inexpensive hardware was unique to them alone.

The more things change, the more they stay the same :p

[DocNo]

The all-too-often cry of people left behind as the world changes in front of them...

Meh - "social media" is overhyped and overblown, and I sincerely doubt it will cross over to TV viewing. Not because I'm being left behind or just not hip and with it, but because TV is a one-way experience - other than reaching for the Tivo remote to fast forward through commercials :)

Interacting is work and most people watching TV don't want to work while watching TV. Hence the reference to "vegging out" - it's very appropriate...

[innocentfreak]

That's not a cool idea. Its an awful idea.

Tech companies have been trying for years to get "interactive tv" off the ground and time and time again consumers have shown that if they want interactivity they will use their computer and when they want to veg out they watch tv.

Here's what I think there is a realistic list of some of the things that will be announced.

Hardware

1. New lower cost 2 tuner model with 500GB hard drive based on Broadcom's newest chip.
2. Moca built-in so that neither ethernet nor wireless is required.

Software
1. New HD UI.
2. "Apps" for things like Netflix, Blockbuster, Hulu, etc.
3. Streaming TiVo to TiVo functionality(using the new built-in Moca) that avoids the TWC copy once issue.
4. Unified NPL and season passes if more than one TiVo is present.
5. Maybe VOD functionality. This would probably require MSO assistance.

It's also possible that TiVo will introduce a server client model like Moxi has done with their DVR. The problem with the Moxi is that the Cisco tuning adapter is limited to two tuners meaning that the 3 tuner Moxi loses a tuner in most TWC areas. This is why I think TiVo will opt to go with two tuner DVRs with some sort of software based unification.

I agree if they make a big deal about it, but if it is just a side benefit as a look what we can do similar to how Verizon Fios just added Twitter and Facebook to their DVRs or just to demonstrate the qwerty remote I don't see a problem.

While I would love a 500gb drive, I have a feeling the drive may only be 320gb based solely off the fact the RCN model is supposed to be 320gb and I believe some of the overseas models come stock with a 320gb drive. Now if they end up upgrading those I could see a 500gb making sense. From a cost POV, I just seeing them sticking with the same size drive since it allows them to increase orders to decrease cost per drive.

I don't necessarily see MOCA included since we know TiVo has a new wireless adapter (http://www.engadget.com/2009/11/06/tivos-an0100-802-11n-wifi-adapter-hits-the-fcc-stirs-up-imagin/) in the works. For all we know this new adapter may have some built in MOCA support.

As long as you have enough USB slots, you can add as many TAs as you need. Some Ceton testers have 3 TAs on one machine to support the 6 tuners on one PC.

[slowbiscuit]

I would love to see Flash die off. It is the most overused non-standard on the web. Any time I have problems with Firefox it's due to Flash.
FlashBlock (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/433)is your friend. I don't leave home without it.

[MickeS]

Meh - "social media" is overhyped and overblown, and I sincerely doubt it will cross over to TV viewing. Not because I'm being left behind or just not hip and with it, but because TV is a one-way experience - other than reaching for the Tivo remote to fast forward through commercials :)

Interacting is work and most people watching TV don't want to work while watching TV. Hence the reference to "vegging out" - it's very appropriate...

Checked TWOP or our own little "Now Playing" section here in this forum? Talking about TV is definitely something people like to do. yes, it is not while watching, but that can change.

I don't think TiVo is doing much about this, but whoever will successfully tap into people's desire to communicate about TV and integrate that into the TV watching will be very well off. The keyword being, of course "successfully."

[Rob Helmerichs]

I don't think TiVo is doing much about this, but whoever will successfully tap into people's desire to communicate about TV and integrate that into the TV watching will be very well off. The keyword being, of course "successfully."
Yeah, and for those who downplay the potential of social networking combined with TV watching, I think they just haven't been paying attention to what "kids today" are up to. Me, I don't get it, but that's certainly the direction "they're" heading. Cellphones, text messaging, Facebook, they feel naked if they're not constantly plugged into whatever you call the expanded internet. Even my dad carries the internet in his pocket (iPhone). And whoever ties live TV into social networking first (or at least best) it will probably get rich.

(It probably won't be TiVo, since TiVo is still such a niche product. But they can at least stay relevant by giving another demographic a reason to sign up.)

[murgatroyd]

The all-too-often cry of people left behind as the world changes in front of them...

Sometimes us 'left behinders' are not bitching because of the changes, we're bitching because the implementations suck.

Some of us have lives. We don't have the time to endlessly tweak stuff just because we've been forced to change from the old sucky thing to a new sucky thing.

Jan

[mfogarty5]

And the world never changes.

And closed-minded old people stuck in the way-things-have-always-been are always replaced with young (minded) people who are open-minded and challenge the norm.

No its people like you who assume everything will converge.

People can already do exactly what you are talking about with their laptop or smartphone while they watch a show. In addition, they can surf the web. They certainly don't need a new TiVo to do so which is why if TiVo spent any time developing what you think is "cool" then it was a colossal waste of shareholder money.

This isn't about me being closed minded. It's about the consumer telling technology companies for a decade now that they don't want interactive tv.

Get over yourself.

[classicsat]

The only way those people are going to be able to use the ipad for those purposes is if they get or have apps provided through the appstore since you can't install 3rd party apps any other way.

There is a legitimate way for an enterprise to publish apps for their internal use, without publishing to the public store or having Apple approve the app. It involves something like buying an enterprise SDK or the like.

[AbMagFab]

No its people like you who assume everything will converge.

People can already do exactly what you are talking about with their laptop or smartphone while they watch a show. In addition, they can surf the web. They certainly don't need a new TiVo to do so which is why if TiVo spent any time developing what you think is "cool" then it was a colossal waste of shareholder money.

This isn't about me being closed minded. It's about the consumer telling technology companies for a decade now that they don't want interactive tv.

Get over yourself.

Perhaps you're just being a little close minded (no offense) about new ways to mix social media and television viewing. You appear to be solely thinking about things available today (e.g. twitter and facebook) being available on the TV.

There are much more creative, new ways, to mix social media (the concept and practice, not the current products) with TV viewing.

And 10 years ago, social media was almost non-existent. To use that as a basis for what should be done today is being locked in historical thinking.

This has nothing to do with age-old debate on convergence. Not sure where that came from.

Things change, with or without everyone coming along for the ride. And often, people resistant to change express that as anger. But that does nothing to slow down the change.

[MichaelK]

With the current MRV I can already watch the HD content in faster than realtime when transferring. Although I wish you could start watching it with MRV before the programm finished recording.

Tivo made a deal with the NFL way back when they announced MRV to keep the NFL from going all lawyer on them.

Basically the NFL demanded no real time transfers becasue they were afraid that people wouldn't buy NFL sunday ticket on directv if they could just get a friend in their home town allow them to send the game to another city.

Maybe tivo has proven that isn't an issue (people transferring content outside the home) and the NFL will relax but i wouldn't hold my breath.

[innocentfreak]

Of course with Slingboxes now you can do exactly that if your friends are willing to setup slingboxes at their house.

[MichaelK]

Of course with Slingboxes now you can do exactly that if your friends are willing to setup slingboxes at their house.

yep- and somehow the NFL doesn't sue the pee out of them... who knows...

[nrc]

And closed-minded old people stuck in the way-things-have-always-been are always replaced with young (minded) people who are open-minded and challenge the norm.

In other words, "living with their parents."


If "these kids today" want to text while watching TV that's fine by me. I won't use it and it certainly doesn't rise to the level of hype TiVo created with their event announcement.

[dig_duggler]

I've forgotten how snarky these threads get.

How this could be cool is if a user could 'tag' his/her favorite scene in say the new episode of Modern Family and share it with someone on their user list (enter a Tivo service number to make a contact). Then you might get the whole 'Press Thumbs Up' icon to see what "Dad" said about this scene. I think this could work and create some interactivity that is fairly seamless. People always like to talk about their favorite scenes from shows with their friends and family, this gives you a chance to do it as soon as the user starts watching it. Something like this might be in the cards. If this idea has been really thought out and fleshed out it could be kind of cool.

[MichaelK]

"these kids today" ....

made me laugh.

But i dont know that abmagfab is nutz.

I'm not big into social networking and all that. i do have a facebook account that i check in on every couple weeks. I have linked in becasue that seems to be the thing to do for work but honestly never log in unless someone else tries to 'frienderate' me or sends me a message. I dont know what twitter is- I've looked at their website a couple times to try and find some information that someone told me was fonud there, never found what i needed, and got a brain hurt.

so I could care less about social networking or real time twits popping up on my screen.

But that said I dont think it's insane that tivo COULD say "inventing the dvr was just a warmup, we changed WHEN you watch TV, now we're going to change the way you watch tv, including all your friends and family. TV Your way, blah blah blah."

just look at the facebook numbers:
http://www.facebook.com/press/info.php?statistics

and I think twitter is the "new big thing" - right? So maybe that's more important then facebook's numbers.

ABC- replays Lost episodes with popups throughout the epidsode.

and google thinks social networking is so big a deal they just lunched their buzz thing the other day on the web and on smartphones and they are working on an 'enterprise version' from what i see in the news blurbs. AND it's not their usual "beta" nonsense but a real actual product from them from day 1.

So, while us "old", "close minded", folks who sit around muttering "these kids" might think there's ZERO value to us in such a thing, I'm not so sure that TiVo wouldn't do it.

I hope it's not that and there is something that does benefit me, but it wouldn't shock me with there was tivo-twitterbookedinbuzz announced at such a news conference.

[mfogarty5]

Again, I must be missing something.

The whole point of a DVR is to time shift your viewing so you can watch what you want to watch on your schedule.

Now you think people are all going to sit around and watch in real time so they can chat about it with their friends?!? You don't need a DVR to do that!

Or better yet you can see a conversation about a show that you haven't seen yet which spoils the episode!

Either option defeats the whole point of a DVR!!

Like I said if TiVo spent any time or money on this "social networking" concept, then it was a colossal waste of shareholder money.

The DVR by its very definition is incompatible with social networking.

[nrc]

So, while us "old", "close minded", folks who sit around muttering "these kids" might think there's ZERO value to us in such a thing, I'm not so sure that TiVo wouldn't do it.

I'm certainly not dismissing that idea. Something like that seems likely given TiVo's recent patent applications. I'm just saying that there'd better be a lot more to it than that given the bar that TiVo has set for themselves.

[samo]

I'm certainly not dismissing that idea. Something like that seems likely given TiVo's recent patent applications. I'm just saying that there'd better be a lot more to it than that given the bar that TiVo has set for themselves.
What bar are you talking about? Tivo hasn't released any statements suggesting anything yet. For what we know "Inventing the DVR was just a warmup" could be followed by "today we figured how to insert targeted non-skippable ads in every program"
My point is that "invitation only" imply that meeting is geared toward investors, not consumers. If there is any bar set, it doesn't mean that it has anything to do with technical innovation for consumers.

[b_scott]

all i want is a sleeker faster interface, and one that looks great for my 50" Pioneer.

[MickeS]

Again, I must be missing something.

The whole point of a DVR is to time shift your viewing so you can watch what you want to watch on your schedule.

Now you think people are all going to sit around and watch in real time so they can chat about it with their friends?!?

Yeah, you are missing something. :)

I don't think live TV is the way to go at all with this. Something like what dig_duggler mentioned above is way more likely for anyone wanting to do something with this concept.

If all people wanted was real-time chat, IRC would be the hottest thing around...

[johnm4]

This better be good... Looking forward for a box that really does what I want.

[nrc]

What bar are you talking about? Tivo hasn't released any statements suggesting anything yet. For what we know "Inventing the DVR was just a warmup" could be followed by "today we figured how to insert targeted non-skippable ads in every program"

When they relate their announcement to the invention of the DVR it's reasonable to infer that they have something very significant to announce. Pretty much all the tech press has expressed that sentiment so if that wasn't TiVo's intent with this announcement then their PR people blundered.

My point is that "invitation only" imply that meeting is geared toward investors, not consumers. If there is any bar set, it doesn't mean that it has anything to do with technical innovation for consumers.

It's invitation only for the tech press. This is something TiVo talked about in invitation only meetings at CES. Handling investor information that way would get them a big fine from the SEC.

[magnus]

I like this idea but would hope that if they ever did it that they would allow for OTA.

I am out of power since Friday morning. All the snow on the trees brought down power lines and no telling when it will be back up. :eek:

Edit: Finally, power is restored!!!

1. TiVo will just have a TiVo server farm that will record every channel and every hour in the USA all converted to H.264 standard and HD.
2. Then the TiVo Series 4 (CableCard required) will just be a networked version only.
3. TiVo Series 4 can download any TV hour or hours based on your ZIP code and Cable Provider on your CableCard from TiVo.com as On-Demand, but with all the local commercials to keep the cable providers from complaining.
4. TiVo.com will play back all shows based on the same requirement from item 3.

[lew]

I suspect we'll either see Hulu or something similar with NBC only shows. I wonder if we'll pay per showing, pay a monthly subscription fee or if it will be "paid for" with ads.

[magnus]

I'd only pay for items that I can't get over OTA. I'm not willing to pay for something that I can already get.

[timstack8969]

Should I buy a TIVO HD XL today or wait for March 2nd annoucement?

[shady]

Should I buy a TIVO HD XL today or wait for March 2nd annoucement?
Buy it now, otherwise you'll miss the Olympics!

[Scyber]

Should I buy a TIVO HD XL today or wait for March 2nd annoucement?

At this point I'd wait. It is only 2 weeks away and if you don't like what they are offering, you can simply pick up an HDXL at that point.

[innocentfreak]

I would only if you find one on clearance where you have an easy return policy within 30 days.

[janry]

My brother-in-law's mechanic's step-son's girlfriend's Father just broke the news to us that via a USB port of the new Tivo, the Tivo software will be able to control multiple tuners installed in a PC, and that will also allow the recorded programs to be stored on the PC rather than on the TiVo's internal drive. The PC connection will allow for the TiVo's broadband connection rather than a separate network adapter or modem dedicated to the TiVo. This will also allow other internet content accessible to the PC to be shared directly to the TiVo. Yay! Internet porn on the TiVo!

Take it to the bank folks. You just can't get more reliable information. :cool:

[netringer]

My brother-in-law's mechanic's step-son's girlfriend's Father just broke the news to us that via a USB port of the new Tivo, the Tivo software will be able to control multiple tuners installed in a PC, and that will also allow the recorded programs to be stored on the PC rather than on the TiVo's internal drive. The PC connection will allow for the TiVo's broadband connection rather than a separate network adapter or modem dedicated to the TiVo. This will also allow other internet content accessible to the PC to be shared directly to the TiVo. Yay! Internet porn on the TiVo!

Take it to the bank folks. You just can't get more reliable information. :cool:

Yeah! It would just be one more easy direct computer-computer connection over USB! Oh......wait.

[janry]

Yeah! It would just be one more easy direct computer-computer connection over USB! Oh......wait.

But, it won't be Mac compatible. :D

[netringer]

But, it won't be Mac compatible. :D
Ahbut, with Macs you CAN do it with a Firewire cable or any Ethernet cable. You can even make a Mac be a disk drive.

[Kablemodem]

Yay! Internet porn on the TiVo!


All you have to do is download torrents and transfer the files to your TiVo via TiVo to Go Back. Or so I've been told.

[Mikeyis4dcats]

All you have to do is download torrents and transfer the files to your TiVo via TiVo to Go Back. Or so I've been told.

or use Vuze to do it all in one window!

[snash22]

Microsoft first introduced Windows in November 1985
The Amiga 1000 was introduced on July 24, 1985
The first Macintosh was introduced on January 24, 1984

Somehow I find it difficult to call four months "years", but to each his own.

(and of course this was because Commodore stole the Atari crew to design the new Commodores and Ol' Jack left Commodore and bought Atari.) The pedigree of these computers gets really muddy at times. Don't even get me started on the NeXT cube or BeOS... Hmm, maybe I'll go download Haiku.

Randy

IBM & MS were developing OS/2 together. I thought that Windows was stolen by MS from the partnership MS and IBM had.

[AbMagFab]

IBM & MS were developing OS/2 together. I thought that Windows was stolen by MS from the partnership MS and IBM had.

NT was.

[innocentfreak]

Does anyone know how long after an announcement, it usually takes before TiVo has product for sale? Or is this really the first time they have done it this way where they have pretty much gotten rid of old stock before the new launch?

[AbMagFab]

Does anyone know how long after an announcement, it usually takes before TiVo has product for sale? Or is this really the first time they have done it this way where they have pretty much gotten rid of old stock before the new launch?

There is no "usually". In this case, the signs of dumping old stock 30+ days before would indicate it will be available on March 2nd, or very near then. But who knows...

[schwinn]

or use Vuze to do it all in one window!Agreed... Vuze is a nice alternative. I will note that my TivoHD choked on a Vuze-delivered video at one point, and completely crashed and rebooted the machine in the process. I ended up watching it on the PS3 instead with no issues...

I presume you're having better luck than I did with Vuze to TivoHD?

[innocentfreak]

There is no "usually". In this case, the signs of dumping old stock 30+ days before would indicate it will be available on March 2nd, or very near then. But who knows...

Cool I figured the same thing, but I see it available from Tivo first. I doubt anyone else will get them before the 2nd otherwise I would expect some photo leaks like we saw with the ps3 slim.

[lew]

Just a note. "The Weather Room" in Rockefeller center is a venue that is available to rent for events to just about anyone (that can afford it). It is booked frequently for various corporate & private events. So just b/c the TiVo event is there, doesn't guarantee that there is going to be a Tie-in with NBC in this announcement.

Tivo is a CA company. The fact that the event is being held in NY, in the NBC "complex" suggests the announcement may include NBC. I agree there isn't a guarantee. Tivo could be holding the event in NY to make it more available to financial publications but I'm pretty sure publications like WSJ have reporters available in CA.:)

Tivo is using the same broadcom chipsets Moxi is using. I'd hope we'll see more then just updated hardware.

[netringer]

IBM & MS were developing OS/2 together. I thought that Windows was stolen by MS from the partnership MS and IBM had.

Not necessarily. I was at a meeting at the time where Bill Gates said there would be two OSs going forward, OS/2 and Windows, although of course he already knew he was going to throw IBM under the bus.

[Ziggy86]

If there is a new UI do you think Series 3 and TivoHD useres will be getting it too?

[MichaelK]

If there is a new UI do you think Series 3 and TivoHD useres will be getting it too?

thats the magic question I want answered. :)

[MichaelK]

Not necessarily. I was at a meeting at the time where Bill Gates said there would be two OSs going forward, OS/2 and Windows, although of course he already knew he was going to throw IBM under the bus.

do you frequently take Beelzebub at his word?

;)

[janry]

If there is a new UI do you think Series 3 and TivoHD useres will be getting it too?

No, I don't think so. If they did, it would remove the incentive some would have to jump on the new box.

However, some new feature might compell them to. For example, cooperative scheduling might dictate the old boxes have an update to the UI and then it might be easiest to put that interface in the Series 3 boxes.

[Scyber]

If there is a new UI do you think Series 3 and TivoHD useres will be getting it too?


Well its all rumor at this point, but some of the sites seem to indicate they might:

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/11/new-ui-tweaked-hardware-in-store-for-tivos-march-reveal/

but an anonymous tipster claiming knowledge of recent developments in the beta program let us know what may be coming. Although it began as simple bug fixes for the Series 3 now an all new user experience is on the way that the company expects to perfect the DVR.

Since it began on the S3, it might be something that is still designed to run on the older hardware. But as I said, everything is rumors at this point, so who knows for sure.

[uncdrew]

Tivo is a CA company. The fact that the event is being held in NY, in the NBC "complex" suggests the announcement may include NBC. I agree there isn't a guarantee. Tivo could be holding the event in NY to make it more available to financial publications but I'm pretty sure publications like WSJ have reporters available in CA.:)

Tivo is using the same broadcom chipsets Moxi is using. I'd hope we'll see more then just updated hardware.

Of course the investment community is largely based in NY, so that's another reason to be there. Our company execs often report news from Manhattan.

[solutionsetc]

No, I don't think so. If they did, it would remove the incentive some would have to jump on the new box.

Not sure what TiVo wants most, new box sales or subscribers, but if I feel TiVo is purposely not updating series 3 unit software solely to provide incentive for me to buy new hardware I can assure them my purchase will NOT be another TiVo.

[morac]

Of course the investment community is largely based in NY, so that's another reason to be there. Our company execs often report news from Manhattan.

For what it's worth, TiVo's advertising division is based out of their NY office (http://www.tivo.com/abouttivo/contactus/index.html). Investor relations is in CA.

[janry]

Not sure what TiVo wants most, new box sales or subscribers, but if I feel TiVo is purposely not updating series 3 unit software solely to provide incentive for me to buy new hardware I can assure them my purchase will NOT be another TiVo.

Really!

I think most companies know they can depend upon the public wanting the lastest. Car companies have made a fortune over the years by making design changes and feature enhancements in the new models. They don't retrofit the old cars to make them look like the new cars and to have the same features.

[solutionsetc]

Really!

I think most companies know they can depend upon the public wanting the lastest. Car companies have made a fortune over the years by making design changes and feature enhancements in the new models. They don't retrofit the old cars to make them look like the new cars and to have the same features.

Yes, really. I don't pay "Car companies" a monthly subscription fee. Your business model analogy is fatally flawed. TiVo profits are primarily generated by subscription revenue. Pissing off your subscriber base by intentionally holding back features for the sole purpose of driving them to new hardware (which is in turn subsidized by that subscription revenue) would be the stupidest possible move.

[MichaelK]

No, I don't think so. If they did, it would remove the incentive some would have to jump on the new box.

However, some new feature might compell them to. For example, cooperative scheduling might dictate the old boxes have an update to the UI and then it might be easiest to put that interface in the Series 3 boxes.


why would tivo want anyone to buy a new box? they lose money on every box they sell.

to them making us buy new boxes is a bad idea- it will make them lose even more money.

Now if they can't get something to work on the old hardware then they have no choice. But if they can get something to run it is better for them to let old boxes have it.

Say Joe bought a box 1 year ago and put the mandatory one year sub on it. it's not clear that if Joe tosses that tomorrow to buy the new box if TiVo has even broke even on the original box after a year of service fees. But lets say they do break even- then next month they get to make a profit on Joe. If he has to go buy a new box it takes them a year again to eat the subsidy and they don't make a profit on Joe until 2011.

that said- the fact there seems to be hardware shortages does make me think something new is in the pipe because the new whatever needs new hardware and can't run on the old.

[janry]

why would tivo want anyone to buy a new box? they lose money on every box they sell.

to them making us buy new boxes is a bad idea- it will make them lose even more money.

.
If you buy a new box, you stay a subscriber longer. Evenually, they costs more to continue to support multiple models. They evenually quit updating software on the old Series 1 except in emergency situations.

[dswallow]

No, I don't think so. If they did, it would remove the incentive some would have to jump on the new box.
TiVo doesn't want you to buy a new box. They don't make money on the box. While they certainly want you to have access to services you would pay more for, a new box for the sake of a new box would not be something TiVo would want to require.

As much as they may be actually meaningful, the "rumors" on the various in-the-know gadget sights all include info that the HD UI changes would first become available on existing Series 3 units through a software update.

[MichaelK]

If you buy a new box, you stay a subscriber longer.

yes and no


yes you are locked in for a year (another year of break even for tivo)

no- you are not a profitable subscriber for any longer. Even if joe only stays with his old box one more month- that's one month of profit. If he gets a new box and only stays a year than it's zero months of profit.

I would hope, and believe they see, that the way to keep subs longer is to have a compelling service that gets better over time.

[TriBruin]

Really!

I think most companies know they can depend upon the public wanting the lastest. Car companies have made a fortune over the years by making design changes and feature enhancements in the new models. They don't retrofit the old cars to make them look like the new cars and to have the same features.

Yes, really. I don't pay "Car companies" a monthly subscription fee. Your business model analogy is fatally flawed. TiVo profits are primarily generated by subscription revenue. Pissing off your subscriber base by intentionally holding back features for the sole purpose of driving them to new hardware (which is in turn subsidized by that subscription revenue) would be the stupidest possible move.

Actually, Tivo is probably better off if their users DON'T buy the latest hardware all the time. Tivo loses money on the hardware. They would rater keep a subscriber on an existing platform for as long as they can. Only when the platform no longer offers new features (that makes Tivo money) do they try and get people to upgrade.

[bwld123]

Not sure what TiVo wants most, new box sales or subscribers, but if I feel TiVo is purposely not updating series 3 unit software solely to provide incentive for me to buy new hardware I can assure them my purchase will NOT be another TiVo.

solutionsetc.. think of it this way instead just for a moment. Lets say that they will offer whatever new features they come out with for your series 3 unit via a download. Now, these new features are best when utilized on their new box, which has a faster processor, and is more or less built for the new unit. Let say you decide not to get the new box, but take the download so that you too have the new features. At this time, your new features are very slow, your series 3 box is sluggish, and simply becomes un-useable... for an analogy lets say its almost like someone taking your great new MacBook and instead of haveing high speed internet , you get dial up internet access instead. Would this be a better user experience for you?

Point being, at times it does seem like companies "force" you into buying their latest products, at to an extent they do. Based on the length of time it has taken for the new TiVo to come out, it will probably be an entire re-working from the ground up. Could you "retro-fit" the new software? sure. Will you want to? Probably not.

Let me now ask you this. If you are running Windows on your home computer, are you still running Windows 95 with an Intel 386 processor, or have you upgraded both??

[dswallow]

solutionsetc.. think of it this way instead just for a moment. Lets say that they will offer whatever new features they come out with for your series 3 unit via a download. Now, these new features are best when utilized on their new box, which has a faster processor, and is more or less built for the new unit. Let say you decide not to get the new box, but take the download so that you too have the new features. At this time, your new features are very slow, your series 3 box is sluggish, and simply becomes un-useable... for an analogy lets say its almost like someone taking your great new MacBook and instead of haveing high speed internet , you get dial up internet access instead. Would this be a better user experience for you?

Point being, at times it does seem like companies "force" you into buying their latest products, at to an extent they do. Based on the length of time it has taken for the new TiVo to come out, it will probably be an entire re-working from the ground up. Could you "retro-fit" the new software? sure. Will you want to? Probably not.

Let me now ask you this. If you are running Windows on your home computer, are you still running Windows 95 with an Intel 386 processor, or have you upgraded both??

Of course "those people" who talked about the "rumors" also said how much faster/snappier the new UI is on the existing hardware... :)

[solutionsetc]

solutionsetc.. think of it this way instead just for a moment...

With all due respect bwld123, it seems you didn't read my posts very carefully. I specifically mentioned in both of them the "holding back" of new features "solely" for the purpose of forcing one to upgrade.

I specifically phrased it this way as I am well aware that new hardware brings with it things not possible with older models. And the original post I responded to was entirely within this context; with someone suggesting we won't see any missing/new feature upgrades on series three due to them wanting to only pimp new boxes.

But many of the things I would like to see in an update would require no additional horsepower… just implementation. And while it would be a shame for TiVo to make the decision that a new interface requires a bunch of meaningless wiz bang bobbles that would waste countless processor cycles, that seems to be the flashy trend in interface design now-a-days so I don't think I would fault them (too much) for that.

[bwld123]

With all due respect bwld123, it seems you didn't read my posts very carefully. I specifically mentioned in both of them the "holding back" of new features "solely" for the purpose of forcing one to upgrade.

I specifically phrased it this way as I am well aware that new hardware brings with it things not possible with older models. And the original post I responded to was entirely within this context; with someone suggesting we won't see any missing/new feature upgrades on series three due to them wanting to only pimp new boxes.

But many of the things I would like to see in an update would require no additional horsepower… just implementation. And while it would be a shame for TiVo to make the decision that a new interface requires a bunch of meaningless wiz bang bobbles that would waste countless processor cycles, that seems to be the flashy trend in interface design now-a-days so I don't think I would fault them (too much) for that.

point well taken... i did miss the "holding back" part.

[ZeoTiVo]

Actually, Tivo is probably better off if their users DON'T buy the latest hardware all the time. Tivo loses money on the hardware. They would rater keep a subscriber on an existing platform for as long as they can. Only when the platform no longer offers new features (that makes Tivo money) do they try and get people to upgrade.

and just we see happening here - S3 models that had a 3 year prepay are getting a nice lifetime offer.
Series 2 models are not getting new features
series 1 models are an anchor around TiVo inc.'s bottom line.

Clearly TiVo would like to see series 1 and series 2 models go out of use as users have upgraded to a series 3 model. This fits right in line with newer features only on series 3 that makes TiVo money.

[innocentfreak]

that said- the fact there seems to be hardware shortages does make me think something new is in the pipe because the new whatever needs new hardware and can't run on the old.

Then again if there is a UI update and it is backwords compatible they could just be updating the stock before re-rolling it out. This way all units for the most part in the retail channels are running the new UI.

Tthere is also the fact that Best Buy seems to be their last B&M retail chain and with their deal they definitely want to make and keep them happy. I don't see leaving them with old stock that they have to clearance out at a potential loss would be a good move on TiVo's part if we are instead getting new hardware.

With all the new broadcom chips out there, I would be surprised if TiVo stuck with the old hardware though even if it can run it. They may not go with the greatest and latest, but I definitely see them going newer than what we have in the Tivo HD.

So do we think the next TiVo will be predominantly silver or predominately black or a combination of both?

[MichaelK]

Then again if there is a UI update and it is backwords compatible they could just be updating the stock before re-rolling it out. This way all units for the most part in the retail channels are running the new UI. ...

interesting guess. Not sure what I think of it though considering a tivo can update itself in place.

It's been so long since I got a new box- do they now upgrade themselves to the latest and greatest software on the first call- or is it after the first day? I know there is some difference now where it downloads a smaller amount of inital guide data to 'get things going'- I wonder what the OS deal is? Anyone who's bought recently recall?

[wmcbrine]

So do we think the next TiVo will be predominantly silver or predominately black or a combination of both?Black is the new silver and black.

[ZeoTiVo]

interesting guess. Not sure what I think of it though considering a tivo can update itself in place.

It's been so long since I got a new box- do they now upgrade themselves to the latest and greatest software on the first call- or is it after the first day? I know there is some difference now where it downloads a smaller amount of inital guide data to 'get things going'- I wonder what the OS deal is? Anyone who's bought recently recall?

assuming the OS has been out a while they upgrade right away. If it is a new OS still on a roll out they get in line like everyone else.

If TiVo can put out a new box in the Series 2 DT price range then I can easily see the series 2 just not being sold new anymore. The market for people wanting to control a cable or sat or ota convertor box is shrinking and likely not much of a draw to TiVo in the form of selling new boxes for it.

PS - if their is a deal then you cna bet Best Buy is directly involved in the product release date.

[innocentfreak]

interesting guess. Not sure what I think of it though considering a tivo can update itself in place.

It's been so long since I got a new box- do they now upgrade themselves to the latest and greatest software on the first call- or is it after the first day? I know there is some difference now where it downloads a smaller amount of inital guide data to 'get things going'- I wonder what the OS deal is? Anyone who's bought recently recall?

I truly don't see it happening unless they are possibly also upgrading the drive, but you never know with TiVo.

It usually takes a couple of tries and then you have the pending restart unless you manually restart it between each update. I know mine didn't update until they were activated also and even then it still took a week or so with forced daily calls.

[innocentfreak]

PS - if their is a deal then you cna bet Best Buy is directly involved in the product release date.

If this turns out to be the Best Buy TiVo, I could see it being launched around the 7th of March. They can't put it in the ad for the week of February 28th since it would be before the announcement. If they wait a week they could have it in the ad for the next week after the launch allowing TiVo to say it will be available at Best Buy on March 7th. Even with a March 7th launch I would expect to see the flyer before then since they usually leak a week or two before.

I also don't think they want to hold out much past that just to get units moving again, but what do I know.

[ZeoTiVo]

I also don't think they want to hold out much past that just to get units moving again, but what do I know.
for whatever reasons - info on this anouncement has been hard to come by. I think TiVo and Best Buy are holding their cards extremely close to their chest this time.
Whetehr that results in some really great news or only some good news on some nice advances we all saw coming is still to be seen come March 2nd.

[AbMagFab]

I gotta say, Best Buy pretty much sucks to date at promoting Tivo. It's usually a few boxes, way up on top of some shelves, maybe a few down on a shelf, and that's it. Maybe they have some run-down looking opened Tivo HD on display.

You'd think they would have tested this relationship a little before now? If the current promotion is any indication, this will fail miserably no matter if it has an Insignia logo or not.

[innocentfreak]

for whatever reasons - info on this anouncement has been hard to come by. I think TiVo and Best Buy are holding their cards extremely close to their chest this time.
Whetehr that results in some really great news or only some good news on some nice advances we all saw coming is still to be seen come March 2nd.

I definitely agree. I almost wish TiVo would tease more. They could even show a couple shots of just the corner of a new box similar to how car companies tease new models with just shots of the bumper. I keep thinking I am missing little tidbits out there but nope nothing.

I gotta say, Best Buy pretty much sucks to date at promoting Tivo. It's usually a few boxes, way up on top of some shelves, maybe a few down on a shelf, and that's it. Maybe they have some run-down looking opened Tivo HD on display.

You'd think they would have tested this relationship a little before now? If the current promotion is any indication, this will fail miserably no matter if it has an Insignia logo or not.

Yeah but previously it wasn't a Best Buy branded model. They don't do well at promoting much of anything lol. With the future Best Buy TiVo, they would have more of an interest in pushing it especially if they get some type of kick back off subscriptions on units sold in store.

[sdzc]

If it is just a Best Buy box, why would overall TivoHD inventory levels be down at other retailers?

[innocentfreak]

It doesn't mean it couldn't also be a new model. Who else is down besides Best Buy and Tivo? Amazon has cut prices but still has stock and I don't know of anyway to see how many they actually have.

Also I know at one point it was thought that the Best Buy model might be the same as the regular model but might have a different pricing structure due to extra advertising and tie-ins with Best Buy. This was all before the rumors and the new of an announcement though.

[TerpBE]

I have a feeling we're going to be disappointed with something like ""Inventing the DVR was just a warmup...now we're making it affordable for everyone! The new Tivo Premiere, only $99 (with 2-year agreement)."

[MickeS]

I have a feeling we're going to be disappointed with something like ""Inventing the DVR was just a warmup...now we're making it affordable for everyone! The new Tivo Premiere, only $99 (with 2-year agreement)."

Yeah, I think this and/or some sort of on-demand Internet video streaming service are the most likely things to happen. Basically, a WDTV Live/Vudu or similar, with recording capability. I think that's where TiVo needs to be positioning themselves.

[wmcbrine]

I have a feeling we're going to be disappointed with something like ""Inventing the DVR was just a warmup...now we're making it affordable for everyone! The new Tivo Premiere, only $99 (with 2-year agreement)."Actually that sounds pretty good. Not worthy of the hype, but good. I'm expecting the Premiere to be more like $199.