Flashforward 11/12/09 "Playing Cards With Coyote"

[philw1776]

A let down after last week's episode which was the best one since the Pilot. The poker scenes were overblown and boring. The traditional Hollywood formula featuring evil paramilitary types is now officially part of the plot line.

The race between cancellation and emergence of better written episodes continues unabated.

[chronatog7]

I agree. I'm still on the fence. The ep was weak.

I love the intro. A letter from Al (FBI Agent):
Dear Celia,
I don't know who you are or where you live...

Really? So how the letter was delivered by the mailman?

[Peter000]

I absolutely hated the poker sequence. It made no sense whatsoever. Why would that even make a difference or convince either participant to change there position on whether to tell the world about their experiment? And in the end the winner revealed he was cheating. And STILL expected the other guy to follow through on the bet. Just dumb.

And my mind reels that 2 months into it they're just now figuring out that yes, the future can be changed. Billions of people nobody thought to do some checking up on this? You wouldn't even have to have as drastic a measure. Just obliterate a landmark someone saw in their vision. Simple. Yet there are HEADLINES in the newspaper. It is a major philosophical debate that's being answered though, destiny vs free will, so I guess I can let that one go.

[Peter000]

I agree. I'm still on the fence. The ep was weak.

I love the intro. A letter from Al (FBI Agent):
Dear Celia,
I don't know who you are or where you live...

Really? So how the letter was delivered by the mailman?

It was given to another FBI (Demetri?) agent last episode. He probably tracked her address down and mailed it. It was probably meant to be an open letter published in a newspaper or posted to the mosaic website or something.

[philw1776]

I absolutely hated the poker sequence. It made no sense whatsoever. Why would that even make a difference or convince either participant to change there position on whether to tell the world about their experiment? And in the end the winner revealed he was cheating. And STILL expected the other guy to follow through on the bet. Just dumb.


It truly boggles the mind and strains credulity. Would actual human beings behave that way? NFW.

Worse yet, how clueless is it to not expect 'repercussions' should he go ahead and start to reveal that they were the ones, however inadvertantly, responsible for 20 million deaths? If ever there was a motive to murder your cohort to silence him, that's gotta be #1.

[martinp13]

And I'm STILL not convinced the future can be changed. :) It's looking like it can be changed, though. :)

[matt@thehickmans]

I very much want this show to do well and also lighten up on some of the heavy melodrama. It has the potential to inspire wonder, and not that many shows have that.

[rich]

I absolutely hated the poker sequence. It made no sense whatsoever.
Wasn't the point that Dr. Hobbit "knew" he was going to win, but then he didn't?

[LBCABob]

I am still waiting on follow-up on the structures in remote Africa shown in the sat photos. (Was it addressed and I missed it?). FBI guy immediately jumps on plane to talk to old Nazi in prison but no one makes any effort to investigate weird construction in the middle of nowhere? With link to prior reported case of crow die-off and blackout!?! Only caught 1 phrase about these things from FBI Supervisor guy to now-healed-from-gunshot agent - weeks later?

[Rob Helmerichs]

I am still waiting on follow-up on the structures in remote Africa shown in the sat photos. (Was it addressed and I missed it?). FBI guy immediately jumps on plane to talk to old Nazi in prison but no one makes any effort to investigate weird construction in the middle of nowhere? With link to prior reported case of crow die-off and blackout!?! Only caught 1 phrase about these things from FBI Supervisor guy to now-healed-from-gunshot agent - weeks later?
That's just another example of how things on this show move at the speed of plot. Just as it took weeks or months for them to figure out something that should have taken days or hours (that the future of the flashbacks can be changed), I'm sure it will take them as long to get to investigating the desert structures as is convenient for the story.

[astrohip]

I absolutely hated the poker sequence. It made no sense whatsoever....

It truly boggles the mind and strains credulity. Would actual human beings behave that way? NFW.
It's scenes like this that push this show to the edge of the "delete the SP" cliff.

Worse yet, how clueless is it to not expect 'repercussions' should he go ahead and start to reveal that they were the ones, however inadvertantly, responsible for 20 million deaths? If ever there was a motive to murder your cohort to silence him, that's gotta be #1.
This just compounded the poker scene debacle. If you 'fess up that your group was responsible for a 20 million death "accident" (whoops, my bad), will it not lead to your death/execution at some point in the not too distant future? So either kill the confessor, or convince him to help you work toward some sort of vindication.

I'm also driven to distraction by the meaningless drama between FBI guy and his wife (Penny). They keep bouncing between love, and "fate says we're gonna split so let's go ahead and act like it". First, it's inevitable. Then the future can be changed, so let's go on a romantic weekend. Then, maybe it can't be changed, I hate you again, for something you haven't even done yet. STOP already.

This could be a decent show, but scenes like these can drive one mad.

[lambertman]

So what would have happened if one of the other two guys at the table won?

[danterner]

I am still waiting on follow-up on the structures in remote Africa shown in the sat photos. (Was it addressed and I missed it?). FBI guy immediately jumps on plane to talk to old Nazi in prison but no one makes any effort to investigate weird construction in the middle of nowhere? With link to prior reported case of crow die-off and blackout!?! Only caught 1 phrase about these things from FBI Supervisor guy to now-healed-from-gunshot agent - weeks later?

I think your post (I don't mean to pick on you personally - this is not an attack) demonstrates a failing of the show: we are interested in the plot, but the show is interested in the characters. Only thing is the characters aren't especially compelling. They're poorly drawn enough, in fact, that several weeks in many of us still aren't sure of their names. "FBI Guy" - I know who you mean, but his character name escapes me. "FBI Supervisor guy" - same thing. "Now-healed-from-gunshot agent" - I'm pretty sure her name is Janis, but that only finally stuck with me this episode for the first time. If the characters were drawn better, I think I'd remember their names by now.

[unixadm]

we are interested in the plot, but the show is interested in the characters. Only thing is the characters aren't especially compelling. They're poorly drawn enough, in fact, that several weeks in many of us still aren't sure of their names. "FBI Guy" - I know who you mean, but his character name escapes me. "FBI Supervisor guy" - same thing. "Now-healed-from-gunshot agent" - I'm pretty sure her name is Janis, but that only finally stuck with me this episode for the first time. If the characters were drawn better, I think I'd remember their names by now.

+1

From episode 1 in 24, EVERYONE knew the name Jack Bauer....people even knew Tony Almeda and Michelle Desler's name as well as Jack's daughter Kim and wife Terry.....they were well written characters. The main character in this show is "FBI Guy" and no one can remember his name.....nor can we remember many other names in the show. I want this show to last, but I see it confusing more and more people, and losing too much of an audience by the time April 29th comes.

[smak]

The poker was ridiculous. I don't know the odds of a hand going down exactly like that, but the odds of flopping quads is 400:1, and the odds of getting two perfect cards to hit the straight flush is 1000:1. And Both in the same hand? Is that 4 million:1?

-smak-

[LBCABob]

Totally agree with danterner - I want plot not a soap opera about the trials and tribulations of each character. When other shows (e.g. L&O, ER) spend time on problems with a character's home life, I hit the FF button. My interest is in the episode's case (e.g. murder), not with Detective X's rebellous teen daughter or unhappy spouse. I even FF thru the contestant chit-chat on Jeopardy. The private lives on Mad Men is something of an exception but just barely. This is why TiVo makes television viewing so much better. Of course, every now and then I miss an important plot point that got mentioned during a character's home life segment but that is rather rare.

[Rob Helmerichs]

The poker was ridiculous. I don't know the odds of a hand going down exactly like that, but the odds of flopping quads is 400:1, and the odds of getting two perfect cards to hit the straight flush is 1000:1. And Both in the same hand? Is that 4 million:1?
No, 400:1.

[pjenkins]

No, 400:1.

lol, no.

[smak]

No, 400:1.

Two different events, one 1000:1 and one 400:1 happening at the same time?

-smak-

[Bierboy]

I think your post (I don't mean to pick on you personally - this is not an attack) demonstrates a failing of the show: we are interested in the plot, but the show is interested in the characters. Only thing is the characters aren't especially compelling. They're poorly drawn enough, in fact, that several weeks in many of us still aren't sure of their names. "FBI Guy" - I know who you mean, but his character name escapes me. "FBI Supervisor guy" - same thing. "Now-healed-from-gunshot agent" - I'm pretty sure her name is Janis, but that only finally stuck with me this episode for the first time. If the characters were drawn better, I think I'd remember their names by now.

This.

It's nearing my Delete from SP precipice, too....:(

[MacThor]

Plus hobbit's ridonkulous speech about picking up guilty-conscience-scientist's "tells" wihile holding quad kings. As if he wasn't going to shove without a read.

[Rob Helmerichs]

Two different events, one 1000:1 and one 400:1 happening at the same time?
But it's two different events, one 1:1 and one 400:1.

Or didn't you catch the part where the straight flush guy cheated?

[john4200]

But it's two different events, one 1:1 and one 400:1.

Or didn't you catch the part where the straight flush guy cheated?

Except the cheating was ridiculous. How can you possibly arrange to make a straight flush in a non-player-dealt hold'em game? You cannot control the 5 board cards, only the two in your hand. And as someone said, about the only way you can come up with the 69 of hearts (a guy I play with calls that the "love hand", heh) is if you have the whole deck up your sleeve.

[appleye1]

It truly boggles the mind and strains credulity. Would actual human beings behave that way? NFW.

Worse yet, how clueless is it to not expect 'repercussions' should he go ahead and start to reveal that they were the ones, however inadvertantly, responsible for 20 million deaths? If ever there was a motive to murder your cohort to silence him, that's gotta be #1.Yeah, I agree. "Let's go ahead and admit we're the worst mass murderers since Hitler. Hell, we put Hitler to shame!"

Why in the world would they tell anybody that? They're not just going to go to jail. They will be executed with extreme prejudice. :confused:

I'm getting a sinking feeling about this show.

[Rob Helmerichs]

Except the cheating was ridiculous. How can you possibly arrange to make a straight flush in a non-player-dealt hold'em game? You cannot control the 5 board cards, only the two in your hand. And as someone said, about the only way you can come up with the 69 of hearts (a guy I play with calls that the "love hand", heh) is if you have the whole deck up your sleeve.
Yeah, the cheating really stretched credulity.

As opposed to, say, everything else in this train-wreck of a show. :p

[philw1776]

People, I think it's become blatantly obvious why there was / is to be a total revamp of the writing staff for FF. I hate to admit it but this group is worse than the BSG group in taking an interesting creative premise and totally trashing it. However, I'm still gonna watch next week. What does that say?

[dtle]

I think the problem is with the American Television season being 22 episodes. With only one main plot, the writers have to stretch it out, which facilitates boring soap opera plots. (Also, the male demographics is interested in action and sci-fi, the soap opera is to hold the female interest.) That's why a 24 season needs to discard a terrorist plot and move on to the next one, for good pacing.

I think the most ludicrous thing of the episode is that an FBI agent thinks that there is only one human being in the whole world with a 3-star tattoo.

[Mispelld]

However, I'm still gonna watch next week. What does that say?I'm looking forward to next week and the remainder of the season. I just can't wait to see how really, really bad this ends up being. I think we have the makings of a true classic.

[moot]

Just watching this episode, I agree with the majority of the sentiments here. Way too many idiotic character decisions in this one.

- Poker for the fate of the world... are you serious? Lame, stupid, comically pointless, I could go on...
- Cable guy trying to reassure his daughter by saying that in 6 months they'll be somewhere in Afghanistan... with her apparently badly injured on a cot in some dirty tent, with armed guards, with daddy seemingly paying a ransom... everything will be great, trust me!
- FBI Guy (Mark? not sure) sees a guy with a 3 star tattoo, thinks that shooting him will change his future. A guy whose job is to put together puzzles doesn't stop to think A) there were 2 guys who robbed & killed the guy and he only got one and B) in his vision, there was more than one attacker sneaking into his office and C) a tattoo of 3 stars isn't exactly a one-of-a-kind tattoo... it seemed very obvious to me it was some kind of marker of membership in some kind of group/organization
- The guy at the end who got the rings shooting the delivery man, even though (unless I just missed it in the scene cuts) dozens of his fellow 3-stars were just outside.
- And the rings... please don't say there are now magic rings that protect you from the effects of the blackout. But, considering he indicates that one was missing, and we know Suspect Zero was up and about during the blackout (and with a ring, thanks to the wizards at the NSA photo retouching lab), that's probably where that's headed.

I will say, though, that the sap in me was somewhat touched by the beginning couple of minutes. I'm a sucker for "rising hope" type scenes, and I enjoyed the feeling of the world sharing a moment of mutual hope.

[busyba]

The poker was ridiculous. I don't know the odds of a hand going down exactly like that, but the odds of flopping quads is 400:1, and the odds of getting two perfect cards to hit the straight flush is 1000:1. And Both in the same hand? Is that 4 million:1?

-smak-

That's probably why KK was willing to lay 30-1 to 69s. :rolleyes:

[philw1776]

You make good points, moot. :D

[busyba]

I was good to see Ricky Jay though. He's not a terribly good actor, but he can deliver a monologue with the best of them (especially if it's written by Mamet).

I'm having a flashforward right now and it tells me that there will be a lot of exposition coming up. :)

[latrobe7]

I hate to admit it but this group is worse than the BSG group in taking an interesting creative premise and totally trashing it.
Wow; not even in the same class, IMO. BSG was awesome for a long time before it went off the tracks. FlashForward never set the bar that high for themselves.

I don't think the overall quality of the writing or the show in general has dropped off at all. It's been at the same level of ridiculous all along. I like it as much as ever - and I do like it (moderately).

[trainman]

I was good to see Ricky Jay though. He's not a terribly good actor, but he can deliver a monologue with the best of them (especially if it's written by Mamet).

What I thought was odd: this episode included both a card trick and a poker game that involved some cheating, and yet Ricky Jay wasn't involved with either of them!

[busyba]

What I thought was odd: this episode included both a card trick and a poker game that involved some cheating, and yet Ricky Jay wasn't involved with either of them!

Heh, good catch... that didn't even occur to me. :D


Maybe he was also working on the production as a "cardsharp consultant". :p

[steve614]

Is April 29 going to be the actual air date of the season finale?
In my flashforward it doesn't last that long. :p

[madscientist]

Even worse than FBI guy thinking he changed his future by shooting a man with a three-star tattoo, was the way they tried to make it a "big reveal" that there were other three-star tattoo guys out there--dum dum DUM!!! For pity's sake. It's depressing that the writers think that the viewers are such idiots. But it does explain some things.

[Cainebj]

This episode knocked me off the fence.
There is just nothing anymore in this series holding my attention.
Season Pass deleted.

[Peter000]

Is April 29 going to be the actual air date of the season finale?
In my flashforward it doesn't last that long. :p

In my flash forward there was something else entirely in it's time slot. :D

[moot]

Just had another thought about the NSA photo lab. FBI chief seemed hopeful that if they could get the few pixels of the ring cleaned up then they'd finally have a lead they could work from. If they could pull out small details from a ring, why not just look at the guy's face!

[cheesesteak]

- The guy at the end who got the rings shooting the delivery man, even though (unless I just missed it in the scene cuts) dozens of his fellow 3-stars were just outside.
It looked like he shot him in the torso because ring guy was sitting and the gun was level. Then he just walks away without checking to see if the guy really is dead or shooting him a couple more times to make sure.

The poker sequences were horrible. Dominic Monaghan's character is ridiculously ridiculous.

[chrispitude]

Just had another thought about the NSA photo lab. FBI chief seemed hopeful that if they could get the few pixels of the ring cleaned up then they'd finally have a lead they could work from. If they could pull out small details from a ring, why not just look at the guy's face!

This is one of my "realism" Hollywood pet peeves - supposedly how image enhancement can pull an HD picture out of blurry 160x100 source material. Sorry, it just doesn't work that way - you're not gonna read a book from across a stadium on a crappy security camera.

And running it through image enhancement for a few more days (!) won't help...

- Chris

[danterner]

It looked like he shot him in the torso because ring guy was sitting and the gun was level. Then he just walks away without checking to see if the guy really is dead or shooting him a couple more times to make sure.

And, when he walked off? He just walked off toward a corner of the warehouse without any evident door. Was he going to go stand in the corner or something?

[Hunter Green]

And, when he walked off? He just walked off toward a corner of the warehouse without any evident door. Was he going to go stand in the corner or something?
Well, he had been a bad boy.

[MonsterJoe]

AA dude's daughter is pretty hot.

[DevdogAZ]

Is April 29 going to be the actual air date of the season finale?
In my flashforward it doesn't last that long. :p
As I've said before, April 29 is the first night of May sweeps. My guess is they're planning for April 29 to be episode 19 of 22, and then there will be three more episodes after the FlashForward date to deal with the fallout.
It looked like he shot him in the torso because ring guy was sitting and the gun was level. Then he just walks away without checking to see if the guy really is dead or shooting him a couple more times to make sure.
Worse yet, he left the gun sitting there on the table. So the guy he just shot may not be dead, and there is now a gun sitting there for him to use.

[cheesesteak]

AA dude's daughter is pretty hot.
For some reason, AA dude's beard looks fake to me and I obsess about it every episode.

[wprager]

For some reason, AA dude's beard looks fake to me and I obsess about it every episode.

For me it's the beard (looks fake) and the accent -- just can't place it.

[Rob Helmerichs]

For me it's the beard (looks fake) and the accent -- just can't place it.
The actor is Irish. It sounds like he's trying to ditch his accent, but not entirely succeeding.

[cheesesteak]

How many of the major characters on this show aren't American? Dr. Benford, AA dude, Simon, Simcoe...

Jeez, I had to go to wikipedia to get Simon's and Simcoe's names.

[ct1]

How many of the major characters on this show aren't American? Dr. Benford, AA dude, Simon, Simcoe...

Jeez, I had to go to wikipedia to get Simon's and Simcoe's names.

Both Benfords actually...

[wprager]

The actor is Irish. It sounds like he's trying to ditch his accent, but not entirely succeeding.

And by "not entirely" you mean "not at all"? Wow, that's not good at all -- I thought he was going for a hearing-impaired Dutch immigrant who was brought up in South Africa.

[martinp13]

You make good points, moot. :DI agree. Summed up my entire level of frustration with this show in one neat package. :)

If we're trashing the show this bad right now (and it definitely deserves it), can you imagine how much of a field day we'll have when they actually reveal what caused the blackout? :)

[Bierboy]

....can you imagine how much of a field day we'll have when they actually reveal what caused the blackout? :)

Maybe the show will be canceled on April 29....

[Rob Helmerichs]

And by "not entirely" you mean "not at all"? Wow, that's not good at all -- I thought he was going for a hearing-impaired Dutch immigrant who was brought up in South Africa.
"Not entirely" as in "maybe a bit (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7610736#post7610736)." ;)

[TAsunder]

Well, despite all the valid complaints about this episode (I actually laughed about the poker cheating thing - especially since they broadcast it so obviously ahead of time), I actually felt better about the show. They actually addressed how big of a deal it is that the future can change. Nevermind that everyone had their heads in the sand until now - at least they are acknowledging that these are big questions with weighty implications.

And I also think there is more evidence that all of the characters we are seeing are actually tied to the major questions. The PMC that blew up the daughter is most certainly the PMC that will raid the FBI HQ later. Evil physicist drowning the girl. That sort of thing.

That said, one episode with some semblance of a plan and some semblance of willingness to acknowledge the weight of some of the unanswered questions is not enough to fully redeem this show. But at least it's a step in the right direction.

[martinp13]

Evil physicist drowning the girl.You mean Simon drowning her? Can't be...

[danterner]

Since we already saw Simon's flashforward, and it didn't involve drowning her, I think that rules out Simon.

Based on how quickly the pastor tried to shoe her out of his office, and how uncomfortable he seemed in her presence, I assumed that he is going to be the attacker.

[Church AV Guy]

Cable guy's daughter used to play Ruby (II) on Supernatural. I liked the actress who played the first Ruby better, but that's just a blondes vs brunettes thing.

The card game was so lame, it made absolutely no sense, unless it was to portray Simon as a brilliant physicist, who is completely mentally unhinged. If that was the goal, then mission accomplished.:rolleyes: They might have done it in a way that didn't take up so much screen time though.

[That Don Guy]

The guy at the end who got the rings shooting the delivery man
Maybe he should have killed him by throwing a playing card into his chest? :)

-- Don

[TAsunder]

You mean Simon drowning her? Can't be...

Hm... I thought we saw the face clearly in this episode, but I did watch it late at night so I might have mildly hallucinated or something.

[loubol]

It seems lame to me that you would do something like this and not be one of the people that stayed awake through it. That should have been the first thing they worked on.

[lostinplace]

Since we already saw Simon's flashforward, and it didn't involve drowning her, I think that rules out Simon.

Based on how quickly the pastor tried to shoe her out of his office, and how uncomfortable he seemed in her presence, I assumed that he is going to be the attacker.

I think the "drowning" is misdirection; my guess is that she is being baptized.

[danterner]

I think the "drowning" is misdirection; my guess is that she is being baptized.

That could well be. However, if so then I think the misdirection borders on unfair since she specifically said that she felt like she was being attacked/murdered, but that she felt like she deserved it (or words to the effect). I've never been baptized, but I don't imagine that'd be a common feeling during baptism.

If I recall, the baptism theory was discussed at some length in the episode thread that featured her flashforward the first time.

...so I prompted your third post in 3 years? I'm honored :)

[Bierboy]

...If I recall, the baptism theory was discussed at some length in the episode thread that featured her flashforward the first time....

Indeed it was...as I recall, most felt that was NOT the case.

[busyba]

It seems lame to me that you would do something like this and not be one of the people that stayed awake through it. That should have been the first thing they worked on.

You're assuming that blacking out was the intended result.

I'm thinking that the blackout was an unintended side-effect of whatever experiment they were doing, so making sure they stayed awake during it wasn't something that would have occurred to them to think about.

[orangeboy]

You're assuming that blacking out was the intended result.

I'm thinking that the blackout was an unintended side-effect of whatever experiment they were doing, so making sure they stayed awake during it wasn't something that would have occurred to them to think about.

Wouldn't the same event in Africa (or wherever) brought to light any of the side effects? Like killing crows?

[busyba]

Wouldn't the same event in Africa (or wherever) brought to light any of the side effects? Like killing crows?

Assuming it's the same group who did both experiments.

Or maybe they thought they fixed the blackout problem and were wrong.

[mrdazzo7]

Assuming it's the same group who did both experiments.

Or maybe they thought they fixed the blackout problem and were wrong.

I think it's impossible to say at this point. Whatever group Lloyd and Simon worked for have been trying to perfect the technology was used in Somalia... I can't remember--was it confirmed that the people in Somalia actually blacked out? I remember the sat images showing the pylons, and the dead crows, but did they discuss the actual event--blackout, future visions, etc?

I have a feeling that no matter what the writers come up with to explain the blackout, it's gonna have holes. Almost every mythology based show has the issue of "will the ultimate explanation satisfy everyone" and I don't think that's possible. Even though I hate story holes and bad writing, I'm trying to just "go with it" on this show. Less expectations always makes for better TV I think.

As for Nicole, I agree that the baptism would be a huge misdirection. I think the vision experience was much more than just images--they FELT what they felt at that time, so I doubt she'd be completely distraught and have feelings of guilt, etc. What I wanna know is what was the rest of her vision? 2:17 of drowning doesn't seem likely. Did she say that hers was shorter, like she died mid vision? That would be twisted.

Also I was definitely shocked when Aaron came home and found Tracy. I thought for sure his storyline for this season would be based around him trying to find her, and they'd finally be reunited in the finale, so that caught me off guard. I think that storyline is gonna be awesome. WTF was up with him telling Benford like 10 minutes after she begged him to not tell anyone? hahaha... Not feeling the "Jericho" shout outs because it makes me miss that show.

[moot]

Wouldn't the same event in Africa (or wherever) brought to light any of the side effects? Like killing crows?

Oh, I think I figured out this show! It's all just an elaborate process to keep the crow population from getting out of hand!

[ElJay]

This episode knocked me off the fence.
There is just nothing anymore in this series holding my attention.
Season Pass deleted.

I'm gone too. I'm tired of the writers acting like we're idiots, saying the same obvious thing over and over and over.

The image enhancement thing is ridiculous. We've all come to roll our eyes at this in TV shows, but now we learn it's being used a plot point to slow down the storytelling. You've got to be kidding. It takes months(?) to enhance the "suspect zero" footage but in minutes they had the three star tattoo vividly showing on a low res cellphone video shot from 75ft away.

AA dude and the daughter thing was completely absurd. What on earth does that have to do with the FlashForward, other than Daddy preaching about how April 29 is coming true?

People have already mentioned the stupid poker game. Dominic Monaghan's character seems to have no basis in reality at all. They've thrust him into the show as a total lunatic with Loyd going simultaneously loony in the other extreme. Take away Lloyd's desire to confess and they both seem like nutty Bond villains.

Even with all this other crap, I thought the worst part was the assault on the pet store or whatever that was. Breach! Run! Shoot! Darn, he's dead, we can't talk to him now! And that other guy got away! :down: :rolleyes:

[Johnny Dancing]

The image enhancement thing is ridiculous. We've all come to roll our eyes at this in TV shows, but now we learn it's being used a plot point to slow down the storytelling. You've got to be kidding.

Since the image was at Comerica Park where all games are broadcast in high def, I wondered why a bad security photo was the best picture of that they had, and why have a security camera that takes pictures that aren't at all usefull. I guess no tv cameras were focused on that part of the stadium but I would at least ask to review all camera angles from that time period in the stadium.

Yeah the show is ridiculous, but so are roller coasters. I can't stand and stopped watching 24 because it is so unbelievable, but I guess I give science fiction a longer rope because it is my favorite genre. I'm just on for the ride.

Anyway, I loved how they used Pearl Jam's new single "Unthought Known". Huge cool factor how they featured much of the song - see again: http://bit.ly/1XtJ0L

[Johnny Dancing]

AA dude's daughter is pretty hot.

Have a touch of Acrotomophilia, huh ;-)

[MonsterJoe]

Have a touch of Acrotomophilia, huh ;-)

Not until I saw her :p

[Steveknj]

Must be something wrong with me, but I rather enjoy this show. Yes this was one of the weaker of the episodes but I like the characters for the most part and I am curious enough to know if they will be able to change the outcome or see if it comes out just as the FFs predicted. I don't tend to question too much credibility on Sci Fi shows because I consider that Sci Fi is just that, Fiction with a sciencentific story behind it. It's fantasy to me. It's not OMG, that could never happen. Things like reality shows I tear apart because of editing and skewing they do to make someone seem that way, but shows like this, i just go with.

[philw1776]

Must be something wrong with me, but I rather enjoy this show. Yes this was one of the weaker of the episodes but I like the characters for the most part and I am curious enough to know if they will be able to change the outcome or see if it comes out just as the FFs predicted. I don't tend to question too much credibility on Sci Fi shows because I consider that Sci Fi is just that, Fiction with a sciencentific story behind it. It's fantasy to me. It's not OMG, that could never happen. Things like reality shows I tear apart because of editing and skewing they do to make someone seem that way, but shows like this, i just go with.

Nothing wrong with you. The other commenters and critics are still watching too. Just having fun skewering some of the more blatant deficiencies.

Where tastes differ is that I willingly accept a Sci-Fi premise (the FFs) but then I expect the follow up to be thought out and logicly consistent with a well told story. I'm nervous about the writers' total plan for the story and so far the storytelling has been sub par even though I too like some of the characters. Unfortunately, one I liked a lot killed himself. Bummer. I'm still in because of the intriguing premise.

[mchasal]

The image enhancement thing is ridiculous. We've all come to roll our eyes at this in TV shows, but now we learn it's being used a plot point to slow down the storytelling. You've got to be kidding. It takes months(?) to enhance the "suspect zero" footage but in minutes they had the three star tattoo vividly showing on a low res cellphone video shot from 75ft away.


I could almost accept the enhancement thing if they were consistent about it. Then you could just say "Well, they've got this really cool computer..." but when they did the tattoo guy in the last episode, faces and other details were all fuzzy, but you could see the hairs on his arm when they zoomed in on the tattoo. Suspension of disbelief requires consistency and a set of rules.

[rich]

in minutes they had the three star tattoo vividly showing on a low res cellphone video shot from 75ft away.

...in a low-light situation, and was hand-held by a very nervous person. :rolleyes:

[dianebrat]

I agree. I'm still on the fence. The ep was weak.

I love the intro. A letter from Al (FBI Agent):
Dear Celia,
I don't know who you are or where you live...

Really? So how the letter was delivered by the mailman?
Add me into this one really getting to me, I know the suggestion is the FBI tracked her down, but they could have done that with some exposition from someone.
It's this kind of scene that has me taking my own sweet time to view vs Lost where I watch in real time. The SP isn't canceled yet, but it's getting close.

Diane

[trainman]

Since the image was at Comerica Park where all games are broadcast in high def...

"Exide Super Stadium," actually, in the show.

Given some of the things we've seen so far, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that the hand of someone in the control truck hit an "ERASE" button when they blacked out and slumped over, and thus, all the game footage was lost. :D

[Johnny Dancing]

...in a low-light situation, and was hand-held by a very nervous person. :rolleyes:

Someone may have mentioned this but after they had her very good quality phone video of the whole thing going down from when she was hiding behind the car, they still asked her if she could give them a description of the thugs. I wondered why they didn't look and listen to the video.

"Exide Super Stadium," actually, in the show.

Oh, that must be the other major league park in Detroit.

[lordargent]

As opposed to, say, everything else in this train-wreck of a show.

People are willing to accept that superman is a space alien from the planet Krypton that can fly (except in Smallville :D), is immune to bullets, and can shoot heat beams from his eyes.

But the fact that people can't recognize that Clark Kent is superman because Clark wears glasses is ludicrous.

/

Anyway, I watched the last two episodes back to back, so there may be some overlap here. But IIRC, didn't something about 'REM' get mentioned? I'm guessing those scientist guys are doing experiments with induced REM sleep?

And the rings probably make the wearer immune.

[TAsunder]

My Fiancee and I both clearly saw simon drowning the girl in this episode. Are we mistaken? I'm so confused.


AA dude and the daughter thing was completely absurd. What on earth does that have to do with the FlashForward, other than Daddy preaching about how April 29 is coming true?

I speculated about that earlier in this thread. She was attacked by a PMC. The folks with arm tattoos seem like mercenaries and I suspect we will learn they are the same PMC and they went after her because she discovered something about the flash forward before it happened.

[DevdogAZ]

My Fiancee and I both clearly saw simon drowning the girl in this episode. Are we mistaken? I'm so confused.
It looks vaguely like Simon, but we've already seen his flashforward, and there was no water involved (although he was killing a woman).
I speculated about that earlier in this thread. She was attacked by a PMC. The folks with arm tattoos seem like mercenaries and I suspect we will learn they are the same PMC and they went after her because she discovered something about the flash forward before it happened.
I thought that was pretty obvious. Jericho is the PMC that blew up Tracy's Humvee and they're the same PMC that has the three-star tattoos that was hunting Agent Benford in his flashforward. We have yet to figure out what their involvement is with Simon and Lloyd, if anything, but the fact that Jericho is up to something sinister, and that Tracy stumbled onto it and that's why they tried to kill her, has been pretty clearly laid out.

[martinp13]

It looks vaguely like Simon, but we've already seen his flashforward, and there was no water involved (although he was killing a woman).??? I thought he was beating the crap out of a large *guy* in what looked like a subway area/industrial room.

[TAsunder]

It looks vaguely like Simon, but we've already seen his flashforward, and there was no water involved (although he was killing a woman).

This makes me want to re-watch. Also, wasn't it daytime in her vision? I guess it could have been floodlights in a pool.

[martinp13]

From flashforward.wikia.com:

Simon describes that in his flash-forward he was in a fight with another unnamed man whom he then choked to death. He adds that he then looked down at the man's dead body with satisfaction. ("Scary Monsters and Super Creeps")

[DevdogAZ]

??? I thought he was beating the crap out of a large *guy* in what looked like a subway area/industrial room.
I definitely remembered it being in a dark space, but for some reason thought it was a woman. I guess I just got confused because he was telling the story to the woman he was trying to seduce.
This makes me want to re-watch. Also, wasn't it daytime in her vision? I guess it could have been floodlights in a pool.
There was definitely bright blue behind the head of the person drowning her.

[tewcewl]

Add me to the group that's enjoying the ride so far. I like that they've been keeping things consistent in terms of time. Everything seems to be unfolding during real time (i.e., every episode takes place about the same time that it airs). I liked that in the background when they show skyscrapers, we see that repair work has begun. So there's a consistent flow in what's going on in the background.

Are there missteps and flaws? Yes, but there hasn't been anything, for me anyway, that turns me off from the show. I'm intrigued in how everything converges -- and you know everything will.

I don't think Lloyd and Simon are the bad guys. I think they're mistaken that their "experiment" caused this whole thing to happen. It's definitely shaping up to be Jericho. As for the complaining about the poker game, I've seen it done between friends. A game usually decides something for them, whether it's something serious or superficial. It may be in Lloyd and Simon's relationship to decide things based on a game. It wasn't that far-fetched for me.

Rob, you and I agree on a lot of things, but I'm sorry, this is the one where we might have to disagree because I don't think we all can accurately predict what would happen if a mass event like this happened. There are those who it will affect a ton; others not so much. There will be thinkers and deniers. People will flock to churches, packing them in, while others might rebel from it. There'll be a variety of things that will happen and this show is just focusing on a small group of people that happen to be a major cog in the plot. That tends to happen in storytelling and I don't know how to make that any more plausible.

What would be cool, though, if they had another season of this show from a different perspective of the "common" man.

[ct1]

As for the complaining about the poker game, I've seen it done between friends. A game usually decides something for them, whether it's something serious or superficial.

Rob, you and I agree on a lot of things, but I'm sorry, this is the one where we might have to disagree

I think you guys should play a game of poker...

[Rob Helmerichs]

I think you guys should play a game of poker...
When I was a kid, I trained extensively in the fine art of, er, poker...

http://magicshop.magictricks.com/assets/images/trickspix/superdupermagicset.jpg

[wprager]

Checking the FF wiki, there's a couple of interesting things about Nicole I did not notice/realize.

1. She has a sister who *may* be a twin. When talking to the priest, he originally calls her "Paige" and she corrects him by saying "Paige is my sister".

2. She blacks out (from being drowned) in her flash-forward, which explains why her "vision" is so short. However that still leaves plenty of wiggle-room (you can pass out and still be revived).

The possible twin situation adds even more potential angles. Maybe it's her twin being drowned and she has one of those twin moments.

[Supfreak26]

Just watching this episode, I agree with the majority of the sentiments here. Way too many idiotic character decisions in this one.

- Poker for the fate of the world... are you serious? Lame, stupid, comically pointless, I could go on...
- Cable guy trying to reassure his daughter by saying that in 6 months they'll be somewhere in Afghanistan... with her apparently badly injured on a cot in some dirty tent, with armed guards, with daddy seemingly paying a ransom... everything will be great, trust me!
- FBI Guy (Mark? not sure) sees a guy with a 3 star tattoo, thinks that shooting him will change his future. A guy whose job is to put together puzzles doesn't stop to think A) there were 2 guys who robbed & killed the guy and he only got one and B) in his vision, there was more than one attacker sneaking into his office and C) a tattoo of 3 stars isn't exactly a one-of-a-kind tattoo... it seemed very obvious to me it was some kind of marker of membership in some kind of group/organization
- The guy at the end who got the rings shooting the delivery man, even though (unless I just missed it in the scene cuts) dozens of his fellow 3-stars were just outside.
- And the rings... please don't say there are now magic rings that protect you from the effects of the blackout. But, considering he indicates that one was missing, and we know Suspect Zero was up and about during the blackout (and with a ring, thanks to the wizards at the NSA photo retouching lab), that's probably where that's headed.

I will say, though, that the sap in me was somewhat touched by the beginning couple of minutes. I'm a sucker for "rising hope" type scenes, and I enjoyed the feeling of the world sharing a moment of mutual hope.

Agree with everything in this post. I'm going to watch until April 29 because I have to know what/why/how/etc. But they are making this a difficult journey.

[tewcewl]

When I was a kid, I trained extensively in the fine art of, er, poker...

http://magicshop.magictricks.com/assets/images/trickspix/superdupermagicset.jpg
I love that it's called the Super Duper Magic Set.