Dollhouse cancelled

[farleyruskz]

http://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/11/11/farewell-to-the-dollhouse-as-fox-ends-show/

Discuss.

[hanumang]

Expected, but still sad.

[dilbert27]

BIH Fox!!!!!!!

[Lord_Skywalker]

Not really all that surprising. Ratings have been pretty awful. I'm just glad that Fox will be airing the remaining episodes they ordered.

[spikedavis]

Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

[Skittles]

Not really all that surprising. Ratings have been pretty awful. I'm just glad that Fox will be airing the remaining episodes they ordered.This pretty much echoes my sentiments. No pun intended.

Even seeing it coming, I'm still a bit let down. And really, there were some strong stories in the show. I think I would have LOVED this show if Eliza Dushku wasn't in it, and Sierra were the lead. Eliza just couldn't carry the show, IMO.

[laria]

I'm bummed, although I haven't really been feeling this season as much as last. I loved the first season... but this one hasn't been as good so far.

[hapdrastic]

:down::(

[Sparty99]

Should've ended it with Epitaph One and gone out on a high note. This season's just a big blah. Maybe Fox will still air that one as a finale (though I'm guessing not).

[ElJay]

I ran out of patience for it sometime last season. I was surprised it came back to begin with.

[voripteth]

I'm a big fan of Buffy, Angel and especially Firefly. Somehow Dollhouse never felt like "fun" like those shows. It lacked the Joss' charisma.

I agree with other comment that Sierra should have been the lead. I remember a Buffy episode when she switched bodies with Faith. It was clear then that Dushku was quite limited. SMG on the other hand seems like she can do anything.

I miss Firefly...

[jschuur]

At least we already know how it ends.

[Rob Helmerichs]

The good news is, the article linked to in the article linked to in the OP suggests it's not literally being canceled (pulled from the air and production shut down), but just not being renewed when the order runs out (which I think everybody pretty much knew already). Production will continue, all the ordered episodes will air, and it sounds like Whedon has enough warning to give it a true finalé.

[BitbyBlit]

It's too bad the show is getting canceled just as it started growing, but that's the show's fault, not Fox's. Hopefully the fact that they gave this show a last hurrah means that they will be more willing in the future to keep a Firefly-quality show on long enough to build an audience. Of course, Dollhouse's failure might cause them to be more trigger-happy about canceling future shows. Then people will complain, and they will keep a worse show on longer, which will only confirm that they were right.

Maybe it's we that are burning in hell. :D

[photoshopgrl]

I've faulted FOX plenty of times in the past for canceling shows I loved but I can't fault them this time. Not only did they give it another season but it's really not been a great season so I was expecting this. So long Enver. Hope to see your acting chops in another show soon!!

[aaronw]

Can I trade in the 2 seasons of Dollhouse for 2 more seasons of Firefly, even trade? I'd take it!

[MickeS]

I'm bummed, although I haven't really been feeling this season as much as last. I loved the first season... but this one hasn't been as good so far.

+1

And what Skittles said about Sierra. What's-her-name is a fantastic actress and the last episode was great.

[LoadStar]

The fact that it got pulled from the schedule for November sweeps should tipped everyone off that the series was not being renewed. This just formalizes that announcement, that's all.

Agreed with the others - FOX was more than fair with this series, it just didn't have staying power.

I also wish that we could go back in time and trade Dollhouse for the equivalent number of episodes of Firefly. :(

[whitson77]

Agreed with the others - FOX was more than fair with this series, it just didn't have staying power.

I also wish that we could go back in time and trade Dollhouse for the equivalent number of episodes of Firefly. :(

+everyone else. :D

[Gregor]

No surprise. The current season just hasn't grabbed me.

[Johnny Dancing]

Ok, Joss, next idea. This one not so good.

[Sparty99]

Ok, Joss, next idea. This one not so good.
I thought the idea was good, the execution was just off. It definitely had a lot of potential.

[MickeS]

I thought the idea was good, the execution was just off. It definitely had a lot of potential.

No doubt. I am not a Whedon fan, but the premise of this one intrigued me. It just didn't go in the direction I had hoped for (mostly, the whole "she starts to remember things" from the get go of the series and then over and over... and over... and over... again REALLY annoyed me...)

[IndyJones1023]

I didn't like the whore house aspect of it.

[Kamakzie]

WTF just as they were adding Summer Glau to the cast. BIH Fox!

[Barmat]

Kind of glad to see it go. It had become Rapehouse to me.

[packerfan]

Maybe now he can focus his efforts on the purchase of the Terminator franchise.

http://whedonesque.com/comments/22240

[alpacaboy]

2) More Glau. Hey. There's a reason they're called "Summer" movies.


:)

[Bierboy]

Good riddance....watched a few eps and could never get into it.

[DevdogAZ]

Haven't started watching this season yet. I also never saw Epitaph One. I'm still planning to catch up at some point, but I just haven't had time or the motivation yet. No surprise about this announcement, and no animosity from me. Fox gave it their best, and the viewers simply weren't interested.

It's too bad the show is getting canceled just as it started growing, but that's the show's fault, not Fox's. Hopefully the fact that they gave this show a last hurrah means that they will be more willing in the future to keep a Firefly-quality show on long enough to build an audience. Of course, Dollhouse's failure might cause them to be more trigger-happy about canceling future shows. Then people will complain, and they will keep a worse show on longer, which will only confirm that they were right.

Maybe it's we that are burning in hell. :D
I think you're way off base with these two comments. The show wasn't just now growing. It was failing spectacularly. And the fact that Fox renewed a cult-following show and then it crashed and burned will probably cause them to be less likely to renew cult-following shows in the future.

[bicker]

I agree. Every time we viewers fail to do our part to motivate a network to want to present us the programming we want, we incur more and more responsibility for networks no longer providing us that programming. Many viewers try to avoid our collective responsibility in this regard, but that's just deceiving one's self.

[IJustLikeTivo]

I agree. Every time we viewers fail to do our part to motivate a network to want to present us the programming we want, we incur more and more responsibility for networks no longer providing us that programming. Many viewers try to avoid our collective responsibility in this regard, but that's just deceiving one's self.

Dollhouse didn't fail because people didn't watch. People didn't watch cause the series was not good enough to keep us watching.

I like Joss but he likes to tilt at windmills. The series went off course when she started to remember and the FBI guy came inside and..... Joss kept trying to fix something that wasn't broken. Face it, he likes to tinker.

[bicker]

Dollhouse didn't fail because people didn't watch.Yes it did.

People didn't watch cause the series was not good enough to keep us watching.Really? So you're saying that Dancing With The Stars was better (more "good") than Dollhouse?

I am not agreeing or disagreeing -- rather I claim that using terms like "good" in the way you did is ridiculous: It denies people the right to have their own preferences, rather than being expected to judge shows according to your preferences.

For what it was, Dollhouse was actually incredibly good. Y'know how I know that for a fact? Because there are lots of people saying the show was excellent, which proves, without a doubt that ... a lot of people felt the show was excellent. And that's significant to those people. To be sure: Not enough people to warrant the cost of the program and the fact that it took up a time slot, but don't deny the show's fans the right to consider it not only "good" but actually great.

BTW: I'm not one of those fans. I thought the show was good enough for me to watch, but not so great that I'd make care much about not being able to watch it. I'm looking forward to what Fox puts in Dollhouse's place; I figure it is as likely as not to be something I'd like better.

Regardless, even taking your second sentence in the spirit where it is true, i.e., "Not enough people considered it good enough to keep watching", it doesn't prove that my assertion was false -- instead it actually explains why my assertion was true. Eh?

[DouglasPHill]

I enjoyed both last season and this. So I apologize to everyone, when I like a show it usually gets canceled.

[cheesesteak]

I didn't like the whore house aspect of it.
No kidding!


I killed my season pass for this show a while ago. It's weird, but I might just watch the remaining episodes since there might be a fully developed series finale.

[bicker]

A deliberately finale would be a great bonus.

[jlb]

At least we get summer.

But will joss really have time to give it a proper fianle? How many of the "remaining" eps are already in the can?

And, at least we have the knowledge of epitaph one.......regardless of what joss has left in the way of time/eps to make, we at least know where he was going. This is better than not having Ep One and only getting a partial season......

[LoadStar]

But will joss really have time to give it a proper fianle? How many of the "remaining" eps are already in the can?

As of 11/9, they were still shooting episode 10.

[NJChris]

I thought the idea was good, the execution was just off. It definitely had a lot of potential. I don't know.

While there were some excellent episodes, more than half felt like filler.

In this current setting, they just could NOT develop characters enough, imho.

The strength of Joss' other shows is the character dynamics and development. You could only get snippets here and there with this format. And even then they havent really done a lot with the non-doll characters.

Eliza may be somewhat limited (no way as bad as Tom Welling... nobody is that bad).... but when the writing was good, it didn't matter.

I liked her as Faith on Buffy... that is what I wish they had done.

[IJustLikeTivo]

Yes it did.

Really? So you're saying that Dancing With The Stars was better (more "good") than Dollhouse?

I am not agreeing or disagreeing -- rather I claim that using terms like "good" in the way you did is ridiculous: It denies people the right to have their own preferences, rather than being expected to judge shows according to your preferences.

This is commercial TV, the game has two approaches. Make an expensive show that gets huge numbers or make a cheaper show that gets less viewers but more per dollar. DWTS, while silly is the mother load. More viewers AND Cheaper to make. THAT defines GOOD for tv regardless of the inherent quality of the overall production.

Joss, made a niche show that had a huge production cost. Regardless of whether or not the show was "good", it was not going to be a big ratings machine. That approach worked with BTVS cause it had lower cost on a second tier network. That won't work on Fox. He keeps trying but ignoring the economics is "ridiculous" to use your term.

[IJustLikeTivo]

I don't know.

While there were some excellent episodes, more than half felt like filler.

In this current setting, they just could NOT develop characters enough, imho.

The strength of Joss' other shows is the character dynamics and development. You could only get snippets here and there with this format. And even then they havent really done a lot with the non-doll characters.

Eliza may be somewhat limited (no way as bad as Tom Welling... nobody is that bad).... but when the writing was good, it didn't matter.

I liked her as Faith on Buffy... that is what I wish they had done.

Given that character development is a JW trademark, how does a main character that morphs every week do that? They tried to wedge it in by having her "remember" but the memories were always so cleverly timed that it undermined that approach as well. Were she truly remembering it would have occurred randomly, not just at convenient plot points.

[mrdazzo7]

I liked the show, I thought it had a cool premise. I liked the mythology episodes better than teh standalones, but I enjoyed them all. I just wish Joss had gone into season 2 SPECIFICALLY with the idea of leading up to Epitaph One. I know we've only season four or five out of the 13 so I'm hoping that's where it starts to go. We saw the beginning of it with the Sierra episode which showed Adelle and Topher beginning to distrust Rossum. Hopefully that continues.

If they're shooting episode 10, then hopefully that gives them time to prepare for a series ender--that's three episodes to shoot. I know it's not a lot but I have to believe that Joss knew this whole season was a long shot and has been preparing for the possibility (inevitablity?) that it wouldn't go beyond that.

[bicker]

This is commercial TV, the game has two approaches. Make an expensive show that gets huge numbers or make a cheaper show that gets less viewers but more per dollar. DWTS, while silly is the mother load. More viewers AND Cheaper to make. THAT defines GOOD for tv regardless of the ... production [values].

Joss, made a niche show that had a huge production cost. Regardless of whether or not the show was "good", it was not going to be a big ratings machine. That approach worked with BTVS cause it had lower cost on a second tier network. That won't work on Fox. He keeps trying but ignoring the economics is "ridiculous" to use your term.I agree (almost completely).

[terpfan1980]

I'm sad to see it go and had enjoyed the episodes from this season (though found them a bit mixed in quality) so far. Like others, I knew it had little shot to survive though, and am not at all surprised by the news. I begrudgingly give FOX credit for giving it more than a chance, though I wish they'd been kinder with the Friday night lead-in shows for it (which were pure garbage). That said, if the show was stronger it would have attracted an audience no matter when it aired, and that just simply didn't happen.

I'd add a huge +1 to the thought of trading the second season of Dollhouse for more episodes of Firefly though. Gawd, I really wish that show had seen at least a 2 season run. (And I still shake my fist a little at UPN for not picking it up, as well as SciFi for not going for it. It would have been a great show for either of them, though UPN was likely so embarassed by the crap that was the middle seasons of Enterprise that they didn't want to pick up a quality show like Firefly lest people truly recognize the crap for what it was, and SciFi has long been notorious for not spending much on their own programming, instead opting to get repeats from other networks, outside of a very select few shows of their own.)

[JYoung]

Joss, made a niche show that had a huge production cost. Regardless of whether or not the show was "good", it was not going to be a big ratings machine. That approach worked with BTVS cause it had lower cost on a second tier network. That won't work on Fox. He keeps trying but ignoring the economics is "ridiculous" to use your term.

I remember reading that Joss cut the cost of the show to about half for Season 2.

Add that to Fox not having any idea what to program in that time slot are the reasons why I think Dollhouse got renewed.

While I don't consider this one of Joss' best efforts, I did find the show far better than most of the other stuff on the broadcast networks.
(The Forgotten anyone?)

But I can see Joe Sixpack not "getting it".

[LoadStar]

I remember reading that Joss cut the cost of the show to about half for Season 2.

Yeah, I've heard stuff like the budget for Dollhouse being less than that of some SyFy (channel) shows.

Frankly, I can believe it... there isn't much in terms of VFX, no splashy guest stars aside from people Joss has worked with in the past, no incidental music to license, no extravagant location shoots. The most expensive thing about the show is the Dollhouse set, and that is a standing set, so the costs for that can be distributed across all the episodes.

[DevdogAZ]

Yeah, I've heard stuff like the budget for Dollhouse being less than that of some SyFy (channel) shows.

Frankly, I can believe it... there isn't much in terms of VFX, no splashy guest stars aside from people Joss has worked with in the past, no incidental music to license, no extravagant location shoots. The most expensive thing about the show is the Dollhouse set, and that is a standing set, so the costs for that can be distributed across all the episodes.
How is the cost of the set accounted for? It seems that if it was built for the original season as a result of the original order, it would have to be accounted for only in those episodes. That would make the second season episodes that much cheaper, because they don't have to account for the set at all.

In other words, had the show been canceled after one season, the cost of the set would have been a sunk cost, so there's no sense in allocating part of that cost to S2 episodes. If they did it that way, wouldn't they have to be constantantly changing the accounting for past episodes as the cost of the set gets spread over more and more episodes?

[alpacaboy]

Yeah, I've heard stuff like the budget for Dollhouse being less than that of some SyFy (channel) shows.

Going on a tangent, I always got a kick out of some cheap stuff in Alias. "This is a GPS tracker. It has the most sophisticated triangulation software and high gain antennas. And it all fits in this... see? It looks exactly like an ordinary quarter. And this- it looks like a household pen. (demonstrate writing) But if you get it within 20 feet of the bad guy's cel phone, it acts as a repeater and will download the entire contents of his phone... and again, well hidden. Looks just like a pen." (all said in like 2 seconds.)

[Rob Helmerichs]

How is the cost of the set accounted for? It seems that if it was built for the original season as a result of the original order, it would have to be accounted for only in those episodes. That would make the second season episodes that much cheaper, because they don't have to account for the set at all.
Actually, in a classic case of Hollywood accounting, they charged the set to the unaired pilot. I can't remember what the rationale was, but I think it had something to do with writing off the pilot as a loss and being able to reduce the fee for the series. So whatever savings they had in the second season, the Dollhouse set didn't factor into it because that had already been written off before Season 1.

[marksman]

I was never able to get on board with the show, but there seems to be some keen analysis here about the design of the show that potentially prevented them from developing character depth.

Seems like they were handcuffed from the beginning. The show would have been better off in a weekly one-off procedural format as opposed to an ongoing story serial basis.

[tewcewl]

TV Guide Magazine has a great article on future Dollhouse episodes.

There are A LOT of spoilers about future guests and their roles and it all sounds great. Too bad they didn't develop this quicker.

http://www.tvguidemagazine.com/news/joss-whedon-previews-dollhouses-final-season-3188.html (http://www.tvguidemagazine.com/news/joss-whedon-previews-dollhouses-final-season-3188.html)

[Fl_Gulfer]

It was just too deep for the Moron Neilson Familys.

[ElJay]

No, I think it was just too sucky.

[MickeS]

Seems like they were handcuffed from the beginning. The show would have been better off in a weekly one-off procedural format as opposed to an ongoing story serial basis.

They could have done both, IMO, just like they did. It's just that the ongoing story was so poorly conceived that it was to the detriment of the show.

It really bugged me how incredibly unstable the whole operation was. The dolls were constantly breaking and acting up, nearly every mission seemed to fail. As a business idea, the whole thing was ridiculous. It would have been as if every episode of "Knight Rider" was about Kitt breaking down. I wanted the dolls to be kickass specialists at whatever they were hired for, not neurotic wrecks that broke down at the slightest reminder of their past.

[Alfer]

No, I think it was just too sucky.

Probably this.

[DevdogAZ]

They could have done both, IMO, just like they did. It's just that the ongoing story was so poorly conceived that it was to the detriment of the show.

It really bugged me how incredibly unstable the whole operation was. The dolls were constantly breaking and acting up, nearly every mission seemed to fail. As a business idea, the whole thing was ridiculous. It would have been as if every episode of "Knight Rider" was about Kitt breaking down. I wanted the dolls to be kickass specialists at whatever they were hired for, not neurotic wrecks that broke down at the slightest reminder of their past.
Not to mention that it was only the ongoing story arc that made this even a remotely interesting idea. If it were just a stand-alone procedural series with Echo performing a different mission each week, then it really would have been nothing more than the whorehouse that some were turned off by.

[Peter000]

I enjoyed both last season and this. So I apologize to everyone, when I like a show it usually gets canceled.

BIH DouglasPHill!!!!




:D j/k of course.

I wasn't feeling the love for this series the same way as other Whedon productions.

RIP Dollhouse. Long live the next big bad.

[DouglasPHill]

lol

[David Platt]

Dollhouse didn't fail because people didn't watch. People didn't watch cause the series was not good enough to keep us watching.


This is commercial TV, the game has two approaches. Make an expensive show that gets huge numbers or make a cheaper show that gets less viewers but more per dollar. DWTS, while silly is the mother load. More viewers AND Cheaper to make. THAT defines GOOD for tv regardless of the inherent quality of the overall production.


First statement: people didn't watch because it wasn't good.

Second statement: good is defined as profitable for the network.

So if I take these two statements together, you're saying that people didn't watch because the series wasn't profitable for the network? That doesn't make a bit of sense. Seems like a retroactive definition to try to justify your statement to me.

[Kamakzie]

Personally I think the only reason Dollhouse got a second season was because Fox had guilt over canceling Firefly still.

[allan]

I thought DH had the potential for greatness. I also thought it never got beyond "potential".

I've had complaints (BIH?) about Fox's treatment of some shows, but DH isn't one of them. They gave it a fair chance and it bombed. Hopefully, that won't make them more trigger-happy next time. :(

[BitbyBlit]

I think you're way off base with these two comments. The show wasn't just now growing. It was failing spectacularly. And the fact that Fox renewed a cult-following show and then it crashed and burned will probably cause them to be less likely to renew cult-following shows in the future.

By "growing", I meant in story not in ratings. As to the second point, I was describing what I hoped would be the case.

[MickeS]

Personally I think the only reason Dollhouse got a second season was because Fox had guilt over canceling Firefly still.

I doubt they'd be willing to spend millions on a failing show just out of guilt. One full self-contained season would have been enough to be guilt free. :)

I think they saw potential in the show, but after the IMO very dull beginning of season 2 decided to call it quits.

I realized that one thing that in retrospect was part of the downfall of the show was the removal of the only ongoing "villain" on the show, Reed Diamond's character. He's a good actor for these kinds of shows, and his character had a good role to play. Once he disappeared from the show (why?) it lost some of its heart.

[billypritchard]

I doubt they'd be willing to spend millions on a failing show just out of guilt. One full self-contained season would have been enough to be guilt free. :)

I think they saw potential in the show, but after the IMO very dull beginning of season 2 decided to call it quits.

I realized that one thing that in retrospect was part of the downfall of the show was the removal of the only ongoing "villain" on the show, Reed Diamond's character. He's a good actor for these kinds of shows, and his character had a good role to play. Once he disappeared from the show (why?) it lost some of its heart.

I think we were just getting into the villain/anti-villain part of this season's story, with the Rossum guy laying down the law with Adele, with the politician acting the anti-dollhouse role. Some good things going there.

[TAsunder]

I thought it got renewed as part of a back-door deal with a studio regarding an obligation it had regarding some other show? Anyone remember that? Or was that Chuck I was thinking of?

In any case, I will miss it, but the show definitely had fundamental issues. First off, every advertisement sold it with sex. If you went to watch the show because of that, you would be confused somewhat, IMO, when I watched the show. Secondly, Dushku is the wrong lead for this show. She isn't interesting enough as an actress. Third, the individual episodes that had little to do with the plot weren't that great - they remind me of any random syndicates show from the 90's with chicks in leather. Fourth, it didn't even really appeal to Whedon fans because it lacked a lot of what makes Whedon shows good (panache, dialogue, humor).

My guess is that it was not a cheap show to make, either.

[LoadStar]

I thought it got renewed as part of a back-door deal with a studio regarding an obligation it had regarding some other show? Anyone remember that? Or was that Chuck I was thinking of?

That was Chuck.

[BobB]

...it didn't even really appeal to Whedon fans because it lacked a lot of what makes Whedon shows good (panache, dialogue, humor).

I agree - as a long time Whedon fan, I (like many others, I'm sure) stayed with this long past the point where I would have given up on other shows only because of his participation. Plus, as others have pointed out, he's always been great at character development over time, and wiping the dolls' memories every session (however imperfectly) got in the way of this.

Can't hit one out of the park every time. I'll still be back for his next project.

[DevdogAZ]

Personally I think the only reason Dollhouse got a second season was because Fox had guilt over canceling Firefly still.

I doubt they'd be willing to spend millions on a failing show just out of guilt. One full self-contained season would have been enough to be guilt free. :)
I think they stuck with Dollhouse not out of guilt over Firefly, but because they saw the following the Firefly gained after it was canceled, and they didn't want another "what if" on their hands. They'd rather renew it and let it fail than to cancel it and have it then gain cult-following status and always wonder what might have been.

[Rob Helmerichs]

I think they stuck with Dollhouse not out of guilt over Firefly, but because they saw the following the Firefly gained after it was canceled, and they didn't want another "what if" on their hands. They'd rather renew it and let it fail than to cancel it and have it then gain cult-following status and always wonder what might have been.
They also probably recognized that the changes they forced on it in the first season weakened the show, and they wanted to see if a "purer" version would do better. Unfortunately, it has taken a while to unravel the story damage, and the ratings damage has already been done.

[Mr. Soze]

I should not be surprised, in that I have had no compelling desire to watch the episodes that are piling up on the DVR. There's always been something I wanted to watch more. Oh well.

ETA: Kinda like Heroes. There are 4 on there now.

[NoThru22]

They also probably recognized that the changes they forced on it in the first season weakened the show, and they wanted to see if a "purer" version would do better.
I guarantee there is not one single executive who thought or thinks like this.

http://www.pvponline.com/2009/11/12/dullhouse/

[Warren]

I thought the idea was good, the execution was just off. It definitely had a lot of potential.

Yeah He went with Fox again.

[AlphaDelta]

I hardly consider it true that "Fox gave Dollhouse a fair chance". They didn't aire the best episode of the series (Epitaph One) and they bailed after 3 episodes of season 2. Advice for scifi TV producers: if Fox picks up your series, reconsider. After Space: Above and Beyond, Firefly, Dollhouse, I've certainly learned my lesson.

[Rob Helmerichs]

I hardly consider it true that "Fox gave Dollhouse a fair chance". They didn't aire the best episode of the series (Epitaph One)...
Well, that's not really Fox's fault. The producers signed a DVD contract for more episodes than they had, so they had to either give them the unaired pilot as an episode (which would have confused the hell out of the audience) or make a quickie-cheapo episode to fulfill the DVD contract. It's not hard to understand why Fox would be reluctant to pony up for the rights to air an extra, quickie-cheapo episode of the worst-rated show in their history...