TD2.8, WinXP can't find DVR's

[westies-from-he]

Greetings!

I know this has been mentioned more than once and regarding different versions of TD/TTG, but I'm still having issues with my TD finding my two DVR's. Way back when I had TTG 2.4, it worked just fine. But ever since 2.5 (I thinK), I've had issues. Now it's completely unworkable.

ERRATA:
TD 2.8, "Plus" option
WinXP, SP3
Linksys router
Static (no DHCP) IP Addresses

I have tried all of the suggestions mentioned in previous threads:

- Reset to TiVo Beacon instead of Bonjour.
- Rebooted all DVR's, PC's, and router (in various orders)
- Completely uninstalled and ran the cleaner utility before re-install of 2.8
- Disabled anti-virus Firewall (NIS) and AV to test

I can ping the DVR's and router from the PC, so I know the devices are talking.

I found a doc that mentioned a *ton* or ports to open on the router (37, 443, 4430, 7287, etc., does it *really* need all those?), so I tried that even though I'm not comfortable punching holes in my router like that.

Nothing seems to be addressing the issue. Are there any other diagnostics I can run (telnet to specific port, etc)? Is there a routing issue with the PC?

As always, advice/suggestions greatly appreciated. Thanks!!!!

[Rdian06]

I found a doc that mentioned a *ton* or ports to open on the router (37, 443, 4430, 7287, etc., does it *really* need all those?), so I tried that even though I'm not comfortable punching holes in my router like that.


Opening those ports on the router providing your Internet access is useless as all the communication between your DVRs and your PC should be on your private network. Opening ports on your router lets potentially unwanted communication come in from the Internet which is ill advised.

However, I've seen people create some screwy home network configs by needlessly cascading routers.

Can you provide a bit more detail about what your home network looks like? What's wired, what's wireless? Where is your router? Are you using any additional routers/wireless repeaters?

[westies-from-he]

Can you provide a bit more detail about what your home network looks like? What's wired, what's wireless? Where is your router? Are you using any additional routers/wireless repeaters?

Sure. Simple Linksys WG Wireless router, connected to the standard ISP cable box.

One PC hardwired to the router, the other is wireless. (BTW, forgot to mention in the original post that I installed TD 2.8 on both PC's to see if the hardwired PC would work, same problem.)

Both DVR's connected via wireless, WEP key. I have no less than 80% good signal for all wireless devices.

I had the one wireless PC and both DVR's set to DHCP, but I reconfig'd (and rebooted) them to static IP's, all on the same flat 192.168.1.x flat subnet.

No VPN. No firewall at the router.

The readme.rtf for 2.8 says that I should be able to see both DVR's under the Bonjour Toolbar in IE, but I don't see anything other than the actual Bonjour logo. I tried all that was mentioned in that doc (repair, re-install of Bonjour). I have never used Windows firewall, so that should not be the issue.

I'm a UNIX SysAdmin by trade, and it's pretty frustrating to not be able to test "black box" software. If I had a way to test *what* was broken, I'd be a bit happier....

Thanks for the help!!!!

[westies-from-he]

Oh, BTW, both my DVR's can see each other, and I checked on the TiVo account, both of them are enabled for downloads.

[ggieseke]

Check the TiVo Server Properties dialog box and make sure that Desktop is using a network address on the 192.168.1.x network. If you have multiple network adapters it may be picking the wrong one.

Check your router for a broadcast or multicast filter and make sure that it's not enabled. Both Bonjour and TiVo Beacon use UDP multicast broadcast packets, and many routers block them by default.

[westies-from-he]

Check the TiVo Server Properties dialog box and make sure that Desktop is using a network address on the 192.168.1.x network. If you have multiple network adapters it may be picking the wrong one.

It is.

Check your router for a broadcast or multicast filter and make sure that it's not enabled. Both Bonjour and TiVo Beacon use UDP multicast broadcast packets, and many routers block them by default.

The multicast filter is (was) disabled.

Still no connection.

Is there *any* other way to manually test the Bonjour connections, other than IE? What ports are needed for TD?

Again, thanks for all the assistance!!!

[ggieseke]

It is.



The multicast filter is (was) disabled.

Still no connection.

Is there *any* other way to manually test the Bonjour connections, other than IE? What ports are needed for TD?

Again, thanks for all the assistance!!!

I can never remember exactly which router it is, but one of the popular models has the multicast filter labeled backwards. You might try toggling it anyway and see what happens. Cold booting the router is also a good idea.

When Desktop installs itself, it creates the necessary exceptions in Windows Firewall. If you have something else you can use those as a reference. As far as discovery goes, Bonjour uses UDP port 5353 and TiVo Beacon uses UDP port 2190.

[westies-from-he]

I can never remember exactly which router it is, but one of the popular models has the multicast filter labeled backwards. You might try toggling it anyway and see what happens. Cold booting the router is also a good idea.
I always cold boot; I never trust when routers are "restarted"... :-)
When Desktop installs itself, it creates the necessary exceptions in Windows Firewall. If you have something else you can use those as a reference. As far as discovery goes, Bonjour uses UDP port 5353 and TiVo Beacon uses UDP port 2190.
Well, I tried the toggle of the "Filter Multicast", and still no luck. I also switched to Beacon, just to test, but the same result.

Sure glad I bought the "Plus" upgrade.... :-P

....k

[westies-from-he]

As far as discovery goes, Bonjour uses UDP port 5353 and TiVo Beacon uses UDP port 2190.
I ran a netstat -a, it shows that the PC is listening on 5353 UDP:

UDP westies:5353 *:*

Gotta be something with the Linksys..... :-P

[msmart]

Have you tried a protocol analyzer like Wireshark? It's free and may give you an idea of what's going on.

[westies-from-he]

Have you tried a protocol analyzer like Wireshark? It's free and may give you an idea of what's going on.
Yeah, that's what I think I'll need to do....

But I'm curious: is it the DVR's that are supposed to be broadcasting, or the PC's? I know some most of the help I've seen has said to reboot the DVR's when you make any changes to the PC/Router, but I assume that's so it can pick up the info from Tivo Central about whether it's allowed to share programs. So then it seems that it's the DVR's that are allowed to broadcast after they receive permission.

If the DVR's are broadcasting, I also assume they're broadcasting on 5353 and 2190 UDP. I confirmed that both PC's are listening on both of those ports. Wireshark may be able to tell me if the PC's are picking up those packets....

Another side question: The Series 2 DVR's allowed you to put a console on the system to both see what was happening during boot and login and change things (hack). I assume TiVo has pretty much locked that down with the Series 3 & HD boxen?

[Didoff]

I'm currently using 2.7 and have the same problem. Under Desktop Plus Help About, I searched for new updates and it reports none. Where can I get 2.8? If this doesn't work, its back to 2.6. It always works perfectly for me.

BTW, is 2.8 rated for Windows & or IE7 only? I'm not at either yet. Although I'm at the latest FireFox. Thanks.

[ggieseke]

Both the PC and the DVRs broadcast.

The later Series 2s and all Series 3 & HD models are "unhackable" unless you replace the PROM chip, which requires soldering etc. The Underground forum has more info, but IMHO it isn't worth the effort.

[ggieseke]

I'm currently using 2.7 and have the same problem. Under Desktop Plus Help About, I searched for new updates and it reports none. Where can I get 2.8? If this doesn't work, its back to 2.6. It always works perfectly for me.

BTW, is 2.8 rated for Windows & or IE7 only? I'm not at either yet. Although I'm at the latest FireFox. Thanks.

http://assets.tivo.com/assets/exe/tivotogo/TiVoDesktop2.8.exe

Your browser doesn't matter.

[Didoff]

Thank you

[westies-from-he]

Just spoke with TiVo Support. The Techie was about to have me do all the things I already did until I began to recite all those things. The only thing he wanted me to do that I haven't done is open up all the ports (137, 7287, etc). He said that TD needs all those open ports to communicate with TiVo Central. Huh???

I asked him if there were known issues with Linksys routers and TD. He read me the list of "supported routers", but I think that this means routers that can talk to the DVR's;I don't think this includes any of the TD stuff.

The guy was nice, but admittedly lacking in Network Smarts. I'm pretty sure he was reading from the TiVo Support Playbook. But when I said I wasn't too keen on making my router look like Swiss cheese with a ton of ports opened up, he said that's the next step and that there wasn't much they could do until that had been ruled out as the cause.

I guess the next step is Wireshark....

[westies-from-he]

I guess the next step is Wireshark....
Installed Wireshark last night, and it was as I suspected; the PC is broadcasting to the IP address of one of DVR's, but not getting anything *from* that same IP.

But that also triggers another question: why is it only sending to one of my DVR's? I have two, and they're both set to allow transfers, and both can see each other. Is this a limitation of TD?

I didn't get time to try opening the ports on the router last night, I poke (no pun intended) at that tonight if I can....

[ggieseke]

Was it sending to a specific address? Normally a broadcast packet goes out to x.x.x.255 (assuming a netmask of 255.255.255.0), so if it was sending to a specific address like 192.168.1.47 it may be set for Custom instead of Automatic in the Access Control tab of the TiVo Server Properties dialog. Wherever you see a zero in the netmask, that network's broadcast address will be 255 and the other numbers make up the actual network.

[westies-from-he]

Was it sending to a specific address? Normally a broadcast packet goes out to x.x.x.255 (assuming a netmask of 255.255.255.0), so if it was sending to a specific address like 192.168.1.47 it may be set for Custom instead of Automatic in the Access Control tab of the TiVo Server Properties dialog. Wherever you see a zero in the netmask, that network's broadcast address will be 255 and the other numbers make up the actual network.
Okay, weird stuff.....

If I run the TiVo Beacon, I can see:
-- broadcast from PC
-- query from DVR's (both), who is broadcasting?
-- Answer to query to both DVR's

However, the TD stil cannot find DVR's.


If I run Bonjour, I see:

- A *TON* of queries to 224.0.0.251, MDNS, all look like DNS queries (PTR, etc). but that's all. It's like Bonjour isn't even broadcasting.


On the other PC, I also changed TD to Beacon, and I can see the queries from that PC on the first PC.

So, what happens after this? Everyone seems to know where everyone else is as long as I use Beacon. But I don't see any traffic after that.

[westies-from-he]

I found a cool utility on http://portforward.com called PFPortChecker, it allows you to check TCP and UDP port availability. I'll try it at home tonight.

[westies-from-he]

Spoke to TiVo support again, they suggested re-entering the Media Access Key one more time.

O-kaaaay.....

Will do that tonight.

[westies-from-he]

Well, it's fixed. Running. On both PC's. And it had nothing to to with my router, my Symantec AV, or my ISP.

I have some VPN software installed (CheckPoint Secure), and a portion of it has it's *own* firewall! WTF?

I discovered it by connecting one of the PC's directly to the cable box, bypassing the router (and either eliminating or confirming it as the culprit) I then ran the PFPortChecker software, and the TD *still* couldn't talk out of the ports! So the router was clear.

One thing that led me to the VPN software was that it is listed as a NIC in the TD software. So I wondered if the TD was trying to route through the VPN software, which in turn was causing the issue. As soon as I killed the VPN, everything came up. I fooled around with the VPN settings and saw that it had "Disable firewall" under it's own Security menu. I checked that off, and was still able to run the VPN and TD.

BIG THANKS to eveyone who responded, especially for "ggieseke" who has an amazing amount of patience.

....k