Stargate Universe 10/09/2009 S01E03 "Air - Part 3"

[Anubys]

I can hear the naysayers already...this was very formulaic and predictable so I won't go into all the sordid details of it...I'm still going to watch, I like anything stargate (sucker, I know)...

I wonder: did the 2 people who went to a different world make it back? I don't recall if it happened but I admit I kind of did not pay a lot of attention there at the end...

[Vendikarr]

I can hear the naysayers already...this was very formulaic and predictable so I won't go into all the sordid details of it...I'm still going to watch, I like anything stargate (sucker, I know)...

I wonder: did the 2 people who went to a different world make it back? I don't recall if it happened but I admit I kind of did not pay a lot of attention there at the end...

Eli had opened the gate, and was calling to them, but it didn't look like he got an answer. They died, or were stranded. I pegged them as red-shirts when they were lining up to go through the gate.

[Kamakzie]

What was the deal with that little ship that separated from the rest of the ship? It flew away at the end... odd..

[lordargent]

What was the deal with that little ship that separated from the rest of the ship? It flew away at the end... odd..

Probably just showing that the ship is still getting damaged due to its age.

I wonder if that's the same shuttle as last week (in which case, no big loss*, except for the senator's body), or is it some other shuttle that was potentially in working condition.

(a working shuttle would have made this entire episode a cakewalk).

*: Then again, wasn't it the shuttle's doors that was keeping the seal, since the inner ship doors weren't working.

[vertigo235]

Probably just showing that the ship is still getting damaged due to its age.

I wonder if that's the same shuttle as last week (in which case, no big loss*, except for the senator's body), or is it some other shuttle that was potentially in working condition.

(a working shuttle would have made this entire episode a cakewalk).

*: Then again, wasn't it the shuttle's doors that was keeping the seal, since the inner ship doors weren't working.

Nope, I don't think so. I think we will see that shuttle again.

[Anubys]

I agree...this was clearly a ship under control...it fired off its engines and made a turn away from the ship...

[TiVo Steve]

Maybe the chubby kid will lose some weight now that he's away from McD's...
I won't be around to find out.

:down::down::down:

[Jebberwocky!]

I can hear the naysayers already...this was very formulaic and predictable so I won't go into all the sordid details of it...I'm still going to watch, I like anything stargate (sucker, I know)...

pretty much how I feel - I watched this this morning when I woke up, it's not like I'm giving up my Friday nights to watch this ;)

[Rob Helmerichs]

I've got a really bad feeling about Lou Diamond Phillips. The only way that makes sense for him to join the expedition is for him to get "stranded" in the commander's body. So the other people in the show would see Young, but we would see Phillips. Ugh.

Why not just have Phillips play Young?

(And for those who thought last week that Phillips is a guest star, he's not...he's one of the three top title-cast, with Carlyle and Ming-Na.)

[Linnemir]

Wow. If I were any more disappointed, I'd be in tears! The only character I came out of last night liking was Eli, though Psycho Sarge had his moments.

I found the way they used the stones and filmed characters very confusing at first. And yes, I cheered when Phillips got drugged. He was redefining arrogant obnoxious jerk. I also found Young's whining to O'Neill very annoying - it sounded as if he wanted a new, more qualified crew and expected O'Neill to actually do something about it.

RDA, I love you, but if you're going for world-weary, it's coming off as bored and sleepy. Since you're the only reason I'm sticking with this, please wake up and be the flip, sarcastic Jack we know and love!

At least it isn't Atlantis - that one I wrote off after the second ep. This will get another try next week, and if it flops again, I'm gonna start renting movies for Friday!

[LBCABob]

The thread title says "Part 3" but I thought this was just the second episode that has aired so far. Did I miss one somehow? Or, did the first show count as two?

[Rob Helmerichs]

The thread title says "Part 3" but I thought this was just the second episode that has aired so far. Did I miss one somehow? Or, did the first show count as two?
They showed two the first night, and edited out the credits in between.

[Kamakzie]

Is it just me or does the music they use sometimes remind you of Blade Runner?

[BitbyBlit]

So I guess the only reason they cut out the "Rush makes contact with Earth" scenes was for time, and not because he was lying to anyone. I guess if both sides are near devices, it works both ways at the same time. I was wondering why they needed to wait next to a device on Earth, but that makes sense now. I wonder if they used Asgard technology combined with knowledge gained from what was left of the Ancient device to build those things.

So far I'm enjoying this. It might not follow the standard Stargate model of the big bad showing up in the first episode and a major firefight happening that sets the tone for the rest of the season, but I like the slow build-up. They are starting out getting their bearings and figuring out basic survivial, just as we are getting our bearings about the show and its characters. I think the initial development, while seemingly slow, will have a greater payoff in the long run as compared to previous incarnations of Stargate.

Even now we already have the seed of one mystery planted, as it appears that whatever the being was that was stirring up sand and helping Lt. Scott came back through the Stargate with them, and took a ship to go somewhere.

[BitbyBlit]

I've got a really bad feeling about Lou Diamond Phillips. The only way that makes sense for him to join the expedition is for him to get "stranded" in the commander's body. So the other people in the show would see Young, but we would see Phillips. Ugh.

Why not just have Phillips play Young?

(And for those who thought last week that Phillips is a guest star, he's not...he's one of the three top title-cast, with Carlyle and Ming-Na.)

According to the IMDB page:

Phillips is only in 7 episodes. Now, it's possible he gets stuck in a body in the last couple episodes, but I'm thinking the 7 are mostly, if not completely, up front.

[betts4]

I just watched this episode, while having lunch. I did enjoy many moments of it and will watch more. I FF thru the scenes of daughter telling Mom that Dad is dead. I hope I didn't miss anything important. I found the contact stones interesting. I have not seen any other Stargates. I first thought they could only be used once so there were only so many they had, but now it seems they can be used and reused. Is this correct?

[Rob Helmerichs]

According to the IMDB page:

Phillips is only in 7 episodes. Now, it's possible he gets stuck in a body in the last couple episodes, but I'm thinking the 7 are mostly, if not completely, up front.
According to the show (all the advance publicity + the credits), he's one of the three leads.

IMdB is not always correct.

[RGM1138]

According to the show (all the advance publicity + the credits), he's one of the three leads.

IMdB is not always correct.

Actually, if you watch the opening credits, Robert Carlyle (Rush) is first listed in the credits. LDP is in the Guest Star list, after Ming-Na. From the advanced publicity, it looked like Phillips would be the star, but I think they used his name recognition to hype the the show because nobody knows who the hell Carlyle is.

Bob

[Anubys]

I just watched this episode, while having lunch. I did enjoy many moments of it and will watch more. I FF thru the scenes of daughter telling Mom that Dad is dead. I hope I didn't miss anything important. I found the contact stones interesting. I have not seen any other Stargates. I first thought they could only be used once so there were only so many they had, but now it seems they can be used and reused. Is this correct?

yes, you didn't miss anything from the "mom" scene...

and yes, you can use and reuse the stones...

[windracer]

Maybe the chubby kid will lose some weight now that he's away from McD's...
I dunno ... how long has Hurley been stuck on the island in "Lost" without losing any weight? ;)

I've got a really bad feeling about Lou Diamond Phillips. The only way that makes sense for him to join the expedition is for him to get "stranded" in the commander's body.
Yeah, during that scene I was thinking, "ah, so that's how get gets 'on' Destiny" but it was really confusing (and kinda gimmicky).


Did they ever actually show them finding that little remote (aka, PSP) that allows them to dial the gate? Is it the same thing Eli uses to control the cameras? Will it work if a gate has a DHD? Funny how all of the gates in a particular series are all the same "model."

[betts4]

I dunno ... how long has Hurley been stuck on the island in "Lost" without losing any weight? ;)


Not equal. Hurley has Dharma ranch dressing and other such things to help him maintain.

[Rob Helmerichs]

Actually, if you watch the opening credits, Robert Carlyle (Rush) is first listed in the credits. LDP is in the Guest Star list, after Ming-Na. From the advanced publicity, it looked like Phillips would be the star, but I think they used his name recognition to hype the the show because nobody knows who the hell Carlyle is.
There were three credits sections...first most of the regular cast, then the guest stars ("Guest Starring"), then Phillips and Ming-Na in their own little section ("With") They and Carlyle are the three leads of the show. Really.

It's not unusual for two (or in this case, apparently, three) actors to quibble over who gets to be first-named. One way to avoid it is to simultaneously put one name on the lower left and the other on the upper right during the opening credits sequence, but S:U doesn't have one. The other common way is to put one at the beginning of the credits, and the other at the end (I guess the logic is that the name that's seen last is the one that will stick with the viewer).

[Linnemir]

yes, you didn't miss anything from the "mom" scene...

and yes, you can use and reuse the stones...

The only thing I would consider important in the 'mom' scene was mom threatening to go public on the Star Gate project. Sheesh ... Sam wouldn't even tell her own father about it, but the Senator blabbed to his wife ... makes me wonder how many others are in on this little 'secret' ...

[Sherminator]

Actually, if you watch the opening credits, Robert Carlyle (Rush) is first listed in the credits. LDP is in the Guest Star list, after Ming-Na. From the advanced publicity, it looked like Phillips would be the star, but I think they used his name recognition to hype the the show because nobody knows who the hell Carlyle is.

BobWhat?

You don't remember:

Adolf Hitler (The Rise Of Adolf Hitler)
Renard (The World Is Not Enough)
Gaz (The Full Monty)
Hamish MacBeth (*)
Begbie (Trainspotting)
Albie Kinsella (Cracker: To Be A Somebody) (*) L.I.V. E.R.P. O.O.L. Liverpool FC

:)

(*) OK, those two were British TV series.

And only two of those were good characters, Most of his roles have been predominantly unlikable if not evil, so it is easy to believe that he is the 'Baltar' of SG:U as was considered last week.

[BitbyBlit]

Did they ever actually show them finding that little remote (aka, PSP) that allows them to dial the gate? Is it the same thing Eli uses to control the cameras?

I do believe it is the same remote that controls the Kinos, but hopefully there is more than one. We still don't know what address they dialed to get back to the ship, which I was disappointed to not find out. Maybe it's just a button that says "Ship", so even they don't know.

Will it work if a gate has a DHD?

It's possible that these Stargates were designed to work primarily with the ships, and were deployed to planets without them.

We do know that puddle jumpers can dial gates with DHDs, so I would expect the remotes to work the same.

[Rob Helmerichs]

There were three credits sections...first most of the regular cast, then the guest stars ("Guest Starring"), then Phillips and Ming-Na in their own little section ("With") They and Carlyle are the three leads of the show. Really.
Or maybe not. Wikipedia says (supported by a dead link) that they were downgraded from starring to guest-star status. I guess we'll see...

[RGM1138]

Or maybe not. Wikipedia says (supported by a dead link) that they were downgraded from starring to guest-star status. I guess we'll see...

Maybe LDP wanted too much money. He's only had about 5 minutes of screen time in the first three hours. Also, I think Ming-Na will be one of the first high profile casualties, say during the Christmas break cliffhanger.

Bob

[Waldorf]

Just watched these three episodes last night and quite enoyed it... I liked the Stargate film from 1994 (15 years ago!?) but have never seen any of the television spinoffs.

Therefore I have a couple of questions which may have been introduced post-film.

When they go to that planet with the 9th avatar or whatever... did our military install the rapid fire railgun and other defenses? On that line, were those little fighter ships ours or alien tech?

Who would be attacking and why? They talk about the "ancients"... are those like Shadows and Vorlons from B5? Does any of this have to do with the Ra character from the movie?

Since when did Mulan get so angry? :)

Liking this so far.

Disclaimer: I'm a sucker for anything sci-fi and have been told my standards are pretty low. :D

[windracer]

What?

You don't remember:

Adolf Hitler (The Rise Of Adolf Hitler)
Renard (The World Is Not Enough)
Gaz (The Full Monty)
Hamish MacBeth (*)
Begbie (Trainspotting)
Albie Kinsella (Cracker: To Be A Somebody) (*) L.I.V. E.R.P. O.O.L. Liverpool FC

Hello? What about "The Full Monty?" :D

[Anubys]

Just watched these three episodes last night and quite enoyed it... I liked the Stargate film from 1994 (15 years ago!?) but have never seen any of the television spinoffs.

Therefore I have a couple of questions which may have been introduced post-film.

When they go to that planet with the 9th avatar or whatever... did our military install the rapid fire railgun and other defenses? On that line, were those little fighter ships ours or alien tech?

Who would be attacking and why? They talk about the "ancients"... are those like Shadows and Vorlons from B5? Does any of this have to do with the Ra character from the movie?

Since when did Mulan get so angry? :)

Liking this so far.

Disclaimer: I'm a sucker for anything sci-fi and have been told my standards are pretty low. :D

sucker for anything sci-fi but didn't watch SG-1?! please hand in your geek card...:p

ok...short version:

stargates have been found on a ton of worlds...some abandoned worlds -- like the one you just saw -- have our military move in...so that explains the facility and the guns...

the ships are "ours"...got a lot of alien tech over the years...earth has space ships that can hypertravel and lots of space fighters...this is all secret spending which is why the government spends $2,000 on a hammer :D

Ancients in question here are people who lived on Earth and became so advanced that they ascended (became energy, basically and need to mortal bodies)...they left a lot of tech around, the ship that you see now, for example...Stargate Atlantis was based on them...Atlantis was a continent that the ancients used as a spaceship and left Earth with it (this is why we can't find Atlantis on Earth)...

as for Ra...well, he turned out to be insignificant, eventually...just another alien with lots of tech...the war is with other aliens...not important to this story, only to launch those people through the gate...

[Sherminator]

Hello? What about "The Full Monty?" :D:confused: Zoom

[Waldorf]

sucker for anything sci-fi but didn't watch SG-1?! please hand in your geek card...:p


Thanks for the info.

Don't tell anyone, but I think I also missed out on Farscape. :)

As far as SG-1 goes, I think it started on Showtime or something which I didn't have at the time.

[betts4]

Thanks for the info.

Don't tell anyone, but I think I also missed out on Farscape. :)

As far as SG-1 goes, I think it started on Showtime or something which I didn't have at the time.

I am a sucker for most things sci-fi and never got into Stargate 1. I am liking this though.

As for Farscape - got Netflix it if you can. You will enjoy it!

[TiVoJedi]

I must have missed a critical detail in the premier, but can someone explain how all the gates are on these unexplored worlds? Is there a second ship traveling in front of this junker Destiny ship that's sole purpose is to manufacture gates and drop them onto the class M planets it identifies? If this is the way it is, then what if that first ship were destroyed.. would Destiny eventually encounter the last gate and stop until someone hacks it to reverse its travel? Why doesn't the Destiny crew just try to hack it to retrace it's steps and start heading back to where it started (presumably Earth)?

[lordargent]

Actually, if you watch the opening credits, Robert Carlyle (Rush) is first listed in the credits. LDP is in the Guest Star list, after Ming-Na. From the advanced publicity, it looked like Phillips would be the star, but I think they used his name recognition to hype the the show because nobody knows who the hell Carlyle is.

Bob

Besides, they can't keep him around for too long, the man has poker to play :)

/LDP is playing in the WSOP this year.

[vertigo235]

I must have missed a critical detail in the premier, but can someone explain how all the gates are on these unexplored worlds? Is there a second ship traveling in front of this junker Destiny ship that's sole purpose is to manufacture gates and drop them onto the class M planets it identifies? If this is the way it is, then what if that first ship were destroyed.. would Destiny eventually encounter the last gate and stop until someone hacks it to reverse its travel? Why doesn't the Destiny crew just try to hack it to retrace it's steps and start heading back to where it started (presumably Earth)?

Esentially you got it, there were other ships that scouted ahead and installed the gates. Which brings the question, why did they need the Destiny if they had all these gates, but whatever.

[Anubys]

I must have missed a critical detail in the premier, but can someone explain how all the gates are on these unexplored worlds? Is there a second ship traveling in front of this junker Destiny ship that's sole purpose is to manufacture gates and drop them onto the class M planets it identifies? If this is the way it is, then what if that first ship were destroyed.. would Destiny eventually encounter the last gate and stop until someone hacks it to reverse its travel? Why doesn't the Destiny crew just try to hack it to retrace it's steps and start heading back to where it started (presumably Earth)?

they addressed this a little...they built the ship and sent it on its way...during those thousands of years as the ship made its way, slowly, the ancients made breakthroughs and advances that made the ship obsolete (and they probably forgot about it by then)...so they reached that galaxy and seeded it and moved on...

[cheesesteak]

I'm still digging this show. The characters seem like they're going to be more fully defined and human than the one dimensional ciphers in Atlantis. Did anybody ever really give a crap about any of the Atlantis characters? I never did. I really liked the main characters from SG-1. Well, until O'Neill devolved into a moron. Even when everybody was mailing it in at the end, I still liked Carter, Daniel and Tealc.

[mrdbdigital]

That sure was a small container of CO2 scrubber for a ship of that size. Based on what I know about CO2 absorption and for the number of people on the ship, that would last about a week.

I do like the "off planet" countdown clock. It would be neat to make one that uses Ancient for the readout.

[cheesesteak]

Eli reminds me of the Man v. Food guy.

[BitbyBlit]

Why doesn't the Destiny crew just try to hack it to retrace it's steps and start heading back to where it started (presumably Earth)?

It's been traveling for hundreds of thousands of years, so even if they could reverse its course, it would take way too long to get back to the Milky Way. A better way might be to use a Supergate. We never found out where the Ori galaxy was, did we? Perhaps the ship is heading that way.

Esentially you got it, there were other ships that scouted ahead and installed the gates. Which brings the question, why did they need the Destiny if they had all these gates, but whatever.

It would have probably taken too much energy to travel to all the areas purely by gate, so they built the ship to get them to each galaxy where they could use regular gate power to travel to the different worlds. Also, the ship would give them more freedom to travel within each galaxy than just the limited locations of the gates.

[mchasal]

That sure was a small container of CO2 scrubber for a ship of that size. Based on what I know about CO2 absorption and for the number of people on the ship, that would last about a week.

I think it was mentioned in the previous episodes that there were a bunch of them. Just didn't show us the retrofit of all of them.

[morac]

I think it was mentioned in the previous episodes that there were a bunch of them. Just didn't show us the retrofit of all of them.

Didn't they say in the episode that the sand would only get them 33% of what they needed to fix the scrubbers? How were they suddenly fixed at the end?

[Bob Coxner]

What?

You don't remember:

Adolf Hitler (The Rise Of Adolf Hitler)
Renard (The World Is Not Enough)
Gaz (The Full Monty)
Hamish MacBeth (*)
Begbie (Trainspotting)
Albie Kinsella (Cracker: To Be A Somebody) (*) L.I.V. E.R.P. O.O.L. Liverpool FC

:)

(*) OK, those two were British TV series.

And only two of those were good characters, Most of his roles have been predominantly unlikable if not evil, so it is easy to believe that he is the 'Baltar' of SG:U as was considered last week.

Hamish and Cracker were Brit series but they were shown on BBCAmerica. Hamish is one of my all-time favorite series.

[Rosincrans]

I didn't watch the other Stargate series when they were current, but watched them all over the last year. This series has some issues, but I don't think it's any worse than the other ones when they started. It sometimes takes a bit to get into a good rhythm with a new show. At least no one talked about their reproductive organs being on the inside instead of the outside.

I did love the lines about the Statue of Liberty.

[vertigo235]

Didn't they say in the episode that the sand would only get them 33% of what they needed to fix the scrubbers? How were they suddenly fixed at the end?

Because what he found was lime. Not sand.

[DouglasPHill]

This one was more like Stargate than BSG. I do like the characters but all in all, this ep was boring.

[JoeTiVo]

All I know is I'm still in for the long haul. I'm really enjoying it so far and I'm liking the more serious overtones. I've been an SG fan from the movie on (though I did bail on Atlantis about half way through). I'm really excited to see where this is going to go.

I agree the stones are a bit confusing and are being used as a crutch. I hope we see less of that tech as the show moves on.

[betts4]

Because what he found was lime. Not sand.

I was wondering if/how one container of lime (how many pounds) would be able to service all the scrubbers. Unless maybe the lime needed was really just a tablespoon at a time for each one. Will they have to find more eventually or does it recycle somehow. These are questions I don't think of while watching, only after reading some of the posts here.

[vertigo235]

I was wondering if/how one container of lime (how many pounds) would be able to service all the scrubbers. Unless maybe the lime needed was really just a tablespoon at a time for each one. Will they have to find more eventually or does it recycle somehow. These are questions I don't think of while watching, only after reading some of the posts here.

I think you're trying to get to technical about it. Remember this show is about people traveling across the universe via a wormhole.

[Southcross]

most first seasons are pretty corny (sure its a budget/writer thing).... case and point, re-watch season one of SG-1 ;) where they came through the otherside of the gate covered in frost? :cool:

I am actually enjoying what I've seen so far :up: :up: :up:

[vertigo235]

most first seasons are pretty corny (sure its a budget/writer thing).... case and point, re-watch season one of SG-1 ;) where they came through the otherside of the gate covered in frost? :cool:

I am actually enjoying what I've seen so far :up: :up: :up:

Actually the frost thing was from the movie, the show was just keeping that for consistency.

I suspect the actors probably didn't like it and you can imagine how old tht would get after only a few times, so they got rid of that piece of canon.

[RGM1138]

I think you're trying to get to technical about it. Remember this show is about people traveling across the universe via a wormhole.

Actually, they're traveling at FTL speeds. Much more realistic than wormholes.

:)

Bob

[Rob Helmerichs]

Actually, they're traveling at FTL speeds. Much more realistic than wormholes.
Actually, they're doing both.

Kinda ironic that the long haul is "merely" FTL, whereas for the short side-trips they use the wormholes.

[Archangel00]

The CO2 scrubber crisis is over, regardless of the completely stupid and unrealistic way it was resolved. Move along now, nothing else to see here........

Obviously there'll be many more such 'crises' and continuned unrealistic and boring resolutions. (starvation, dehydration, power generation, etc all come to mind)

YAAAAWWWWWWWN......

At least they are sparing no expense on set construction and casting.....:rolleyes:

Seriously....every aspect of this production reeks of third rate, low budget SUCKAGE.....

[vertigo235]

Actually, they're traveling at FTL speeds. Much more realistic than wormholes.

:)

Bob

I guess you missed the part in the first episode when they traveled across the universe in a wormhole?

[RGM1138]

I guess you missed the part in the first episode when they traveled across the universe in a wormhole?

Yeah, I got that. But Rush was making such a big deal about the Destiny flying at FTL, as opposed to the other Ancient ships at the time which were all using subspace. However, he never really revealed why this ship used FTL.

Bob

[Rob Helmerichs]

Yeah, I got that. But Rush was making such a big deal about the Destiny flying at FTL, as opposed to the other Ancient ships at the time which were all using subspace. However, he never really revealed why this ship used FTL.
When the show was first announced it was because the ship was "laying" stargates. I guess the concept has shifting somewhat...

At this point, it really doesn't make much sense. One hopes they have something in mind...

[vertigo235]

When the show was first announced it was because the ship was "laying" stargates. I guess the concept has shifting somewhat...

At this point, it really doesn't make much sense. One hopes they have something in mind...

Well I guess it could still be doing just that.

[Hoffer]

I liked this episode better than the first two. I definitely liked it better than Stargate Atlantis. I'm going to keep watching.

[Sherminator]

But in this episode Rush said that there was a ship that went before Destiny that laid the ones that the Destiny found.

[Hoffer]

But in this episode Rush said that there was a ship that went before Destiny that laid the ones that the Destiny found.

That's what I remember too. There was a ship or ships that went before it to find valuable planets to build stargates on.

[SteveInNC]

I liked this somewhat better than the premiere. The senator's wife was a bit over the top; you're going to expose what is arguably the biggest secret of the government? I see an off-world penitentiary in your immediate future...

I think that the departing shuttle is a future plot point also, although I'm not sure I agree that the dust devil from the planet came back aboard.

When the dust devil was sucking up the water that they poured out, I was thinking bad things, given that humans are xx% water.

Even though they were red shirts, I was glad to see some of the characters state their suspicions about Rush, so at least they aren't oblivious to his machinations.

I still don't like how some of the characters appear to ready to do incredibly stupid things, in this case, re: the locked-out gates. Even if you don't trust Rush, you've been in this situation on an unknown Ancient ship for about a day, and don't understand much of anything about it beyond operating some basic devices. Ancients are generally considered to have had a clue, so if they have their ship lock out some gates, perhaps there is a reason for that. They locked out the ruptured air lock, which you also overrode to ill effect. So the ability to override the safety devices is not an indication that you should do so.

I did like that they shot the guy trying to go through the gate. I think that that was a realistic outcome in that situation. I'm still waiting for the commander to assert stronger authority, to the effect that people can't just do as they please, given the ramifications to the rest of the group.

Why didn't they take several kinos through, run them either out across the desert (we don't know their range yet), or at least high up to give a better vantage point on which way to search? Even with short range, each search group could have had one flying a hundred feet or so directly above them to give them a view over the next series of dunes.

[Rob Helmerichs]

I'm still waiting for the commander to assert stronger authority, to the effect that people can't just do as they please, given the ramifications to the rest of the group.
He is in a difficult situation, though, since this isn't a formal expedition with an established chain of command. They've been thrown together entirely by accident, and many of these people don't necessarily answer to him.

He can make an argument that he's in command, but in the end that would be because he's the guy who commands the guys with the guns, which isn't going to go over very well.

[dianebrat]

Even if you don't trust Rush, you've been in this situation on an unknown Ancient ship for about a day, and don't understand much of anything about it beyond operating some basic devices. Ancients are generally considered to have had a clue, so if they have their ship lock out some gates, perhaps there is a reason for that. They locked out the ruptured air lock, which you also overrode to ill effect. So the ability to override the safety devices is not an indication that you should do so.
Best line I've read in a thread in a long time, thank you!

Diane

[mrdbdigital]

I thought it was already understood that the earlier ships manufacturing and installing the stargates, and the Destiny were built and deployed before the Ancients developed sub-space technology, (hence the FTL drives) and then were abandoned when the Ancients discovered how to Ascend.

[MickeS]

I liked the concept of this episode more than the execution.

They managed, both here and in the premiere episodes, to convey a sense of genuine dread and and danger, which I like. There was never really that sense in the previous Stargate incarnations (I don't think they were really going for it either), and it works well here. They definitely are trying to set it up to be more character based too, and are succeeding thus far.

The only problem was that the actual story of this episode was dull, and the desert environment got boring real quick. I hope they come back next week with a more interesting story for the episode. I will definitely keep watching, as the overall theme of the series already has me hooked.

[classicX]

We still don't know what address they dialed to get back to the ship, which I was disappointed to not find out.

Because you may need to dial it in the future? I don't really see the point of showing this on-screen, and I am actually happy that they are giving us a sense that there are things happening off camera that we don't necessary need to see in detail.

Either way, if they had to figure it out or it was automatically in the PSP, it doesn't matter.

Even though they were red shirts, I was glad to see some of the characters state their suspicions about Rush, so at least they aren't oblivious to his machinations.


I'm not sure why everyone thinks those characters died when they clearly came back through with 3 minutes left. The woman even offered to wait in Eli's stead.

I imagine Eli dialed the planet that they were on, went through, then dialed the desert planet again, and they all came back. He then dialed the ship and they came through, but Eli waited for the other two.

I thought it was already understood that the earlier ships manufacturing and installing the stargates, and the Destiny were built and deployed before the Ancients developed sub-space technology, (hence the FTL drives) and then were abandoned when the Ancients discovered how to Ascend.

I don't think they ever mentioned the actual time line, but it was implied that they sent out ships specifically to create and deposit stargates, ostensibly around the same time that they created the Destiny (because the stargates all look the same). The Destiny was never meant for that - I gathered that it's on a specific trip to a specific destination, but before reaching that destination the ancients developed hyperdrive, etc. and didn't need the Destiny anymore, so they abandoned it.

Which in retrospect seems odd to me because I remember Rush specifically saying that the ancients must have learned to ascend before the Destiny reached its destination. Their intergalactic hyperdrive would have rendered it obsolete far sooner.

Anyway, I liked the episode (minus the senator's wife part). I think there are too many people thinking they are in charge - the lady that was on the ship while the daughter was using the stones for instance. Everyone seems so bossy. If it were me, when she protested about giving LDP a sedative, I would've just given her one too. What is she going to do?

I also disagree that Rush was somehow complicit in the attack on the radioactive planet - he would have had to know how to dial the 9 chevron address before the attack started, which he clearly didn't.

[sushikitten]

I'm not sure why everyone thinks those characters died when they clearly came back through with 3 minutes left. The woman even offered to wait in Eli's stead.

I imagine Eli dialed the planet that they were on, went through, then dialed the desert planet again, and they all came back. He then dialed the ship and they came through, but Eli waited for the other two.


Those were different people. A male and female scientist went through to the new planet. There were three military personnel who came to desert planet from the ship, ostensibly to help. The scientists never came back and didn't answer Eli's calls.

[Jebberwocky!]

something tells me that they will meetup with those two in a later EP when they go to that stargate address.

[nataylor]

I want to know what the difference between FTL and hyperdrive travel are. Both seem to be the same... letting the ship go faster than light.

[retrodog]

Why didn't they take several kinos through, run them either out across the desert (we don't know their range yet), or at least high up to give a better vantage point on which way to search? Even with short range, each search group could have had one flying a hundred feet or so directly above them to give them a view over the next series of dunes.
There was no reason not to try it but I doubt it would have made any difference. The area of the lake (or river) bed wasn't obvious until the little dust/sand devil sucked some water up for us to see. And maybe the thing was sucking up the water he poured out to essentially get its scent, like a bloodhound, so as to go find him some more. :D

[IndyJones1023]

something tells me that they will meetup with those two in a later EP when they go to that stargate address.

I thought they said the PDA said there were a few other gates - in that system. But now the Destiny is warping off to another system. So they'll never see those people again.

I was surprised there wasn't more gnashing of teeth over losing crew members.

[MickeS]

I was surprised there wasn't more gnashing of teeth over losing crew members.

Hey, more food for everyone else! :)

[Rob Helmerichs]

I thought they said the PDA said there were a few other gates - in that system. But now the Destiny is warping off to another system. So they'll never see those people again.
I don't think it was in that system, it was "within range." And stargates have pretty awesome ranges...

[BitbyBlit]

When the show was first announced it was because the ship was "laying" stargates. I guess the concept has shifting somewhat...

The original plan was for the ships to have been sent out millions of years ago instead of hundreds of thousands, and there was only one Stargate-building ship instead of many, but I don't think the crew was ever supposed to end up on a Stargate-building ship. According to the Stargate Universe Revealed! (http://www.gateworld.net/news/2008/04/istargate_universei_revealed.shtml) article, there was always supposed to be a manned ship that followed the Stargate-builders.

Because you may need to dial it in the future? I don't really see the point of showing this on-screen, and I am actually happy that they are giving us a sense that there are things happening off camera that we don't necessary need to see in detail.

I'm just curious whether it is the same 9 symbol address, a different, but consistent 6 symbol address + point-of-origin, or an "on-demand" address for wherever the ship's current location is.

Which in retrospect seems odd to me because I remember Rush specifically saying that the ancients must have learned to ascend before the Destiny reached its destination. Their intergalactic hyperdrive would have rendered it obsolete far sooner.

The Ancient timeline is kind of confusing. They came to the Milky Way many millions of years ago, but then a few million years ago they left because of a plague, and went to the Pegasus galaxy. Then they left Pegasus and returned to Earth about 10000 years ago when they reached a stalemate with the Wraith.

But I guess either some of them returned to the Milky Way hundreds of thousands of years ago to see if the plague was gone, or some stayed behind who were immune to it. I'm leaning toward the latter explanation since that would explain the deviation in technology.

Those who stayed behind were the ones who sent Destiny out, and since they weren't having to deal with the Wraith, could focus on the necessary enlightenment required for ascension. Thus, they all ascended before advancing as far technologically.

The Atlanteans, however, were busy developing weapons to fight the Wraith. As their technology evolved, at some point they figured out how to build hyperdrives, and replaced Atlantis' old engines with them. Since Destiny's address was in the Atlantis database, they must have found about Destiny either by making contact with the Ancients in the Milky Way or sending scouts back and finding what they left behind. But even though they knew about it, they were too busy fighting the Wraith to care about sending any hyperdrive-based ships on the same mission of exploration as Destiny.

I was always confused about when exactly the Ancients ascended because it seemed like they ascended far longer than 10000 years ago, but the Atlanteans were still around then. A split in the development of Ancient civilization would explain the two different periods of ascension.

[whitson77]

The music on this show sucks. I'll still watch it since it is Sci-fi (I refuse to type scfy) but it isn't doing a lot for me. Strange cast, with few likeable characters. Who am I suppposed to be liking here? I like everyone on the SG1 and Atlantis cast for the most part. I would have killed off Rodney, but this cast doesn't have a lot going for it.

Mad Scientist??
Likeable Young Soldier
Insane/borderline evil ghetto soldier
Amazed fat normal guy brainy character
Bitchy Asian
Not sure what Lou Diamond is doing??
F'd up Commander?

Who am I supposed to get behind here and really like? You tell me...

[BitbyBlit]

A male and female scientist went through to the new planet.

I think it was actually a female scientist and male soldier. The male scientist was the one shot before he entered the gate.

I want to know what the difference between FTL and hyperdrive travel are. Both seem to be the same... letting the ship go faster than light.

I think the FTL drive is more akin to a Star Trek warp drive. It warps space-time in order to travel faster than light, and travels at about 10000x light speed, which is on par with a warp drive in Star Trek.

Hyperdrive, on the other hand, allows their ships to enter a different dimension of space-time. In the case of Earth ships, this allows them to travel around 50 million times light speed on regular power, or up to 300 million times by draining a significant amount of power from a ZPM.

I don't think it was in that system, it was "within range." And stargates have pretty awesome ranges...

Yeah, I'm not certain what "within range" is supposed to mean since Stargates are supposed to be able to connect to any gate in the galaxy using "normal" power. And given the speed of Destiny, they aren't going to be hopping from galaxy to galaxy on a regular basis. The show was called "Air", however, so maybe these models are "Stargate Airs" that are more environmentally friendly, but since they use less energy, they can't connect quite as far.

[IndyJones1023]

The show title was Air because that's what they were running out of.

[nataylor]

Hyperdrive, on the other hand, allows their ships to enter a different dimension of space-time. In the case of Earth ships, this allows them to travel around 50 million times light speed on regular power, or up to 300 million times by draining a significant amount of power from a ZPM.Wow, I never ran the numbers, but they made hyperdrive travel way too powerful. You could cross the entire observable universe in less than 50 years at 300 million times the speed of light. Or you can go anywhere in the Milky Way in under 3 hours.

[IndyJones1023]

Wow, I never ran the numbers, but they made hyperdrive travel way too powerful. You could cross the entire observable universe in less than 50 years at 300 million times the speed of light. Or you can go anywhere in the Milky Way in under 3 hours.

I'm guessing he was just guessing at those numbers. It takes them 18 days to get to Atlantis from Earth at hyperspeed.

[MickeS]

Wow, I never ran the numbers, but they made hyperdrive travel way too powerful. You could cross the entire observable universe in less than 50 years at 300 million times the speed of light. Or you can go anywhere in the Milky Way in under 3 hours.

The Daedalus, arguably the most awesome spaceship ever built, can travel from the Milky Way to the Pegasus galaxy in about 4 days when it's using a ZPM as its power source. So that sounds about right, I suppose. I don't think they've made them too powerful at all.

I'm guessing he was just guessing at those numbers. It takes them 18 days to get to Atlantis from Earth at hyperspeed.

That's without the ZPM.

[nataylor]

I'm guessing he was just guessing at those numbers. It takes them 18 days to get to Atlantis from Earth at hyperspeed.

Which at a distance of 3 million light years puts the speed at ~60 million times the speed of light, so his numbers were close.

[twincaminferno]

Eli reminds me of the Man v. Food guy.

Thank you! I was trying to figure out who he reminded me of! My brain can now rest.

[nataylor]

The Daedalus, arguably the most awesome spaceship ever built, can travel from the Milky Way to the Pegasus galaxy in about 4 days when it's using a ZPM as its power source. So that sounds about right, I suppose. I don't think they've made them too powerful at all.Well, that means at top speed, the Daedalus could catch up to the Destiny in 10 years.

[BitbyBlit]

The show title was Air because that's what they were running out of.

Yeah, I was just comparing the Stargates to a MacBook Airs (http://www.apple.com/macbookair/environment.html).

Wow, I never ran the numbers, but they made hyperdrive travel way too powerful. You could cross the entire observable universe in less than 50 years at 300 million times the speed of light.

But that would require a hefty supply of ZPMs, and you would merely get from Point A to Point B; you wouldn't be exploring the volume of the universe. Given the typical lifespan of the show's audience, if they want to do a show about exploring the entire universe, even those numbers are limiting, which shows just how really big the universe is.

[BitbyBlit]

Well, that means at top speed, the Daedalus could catch up to the Destiny in 10 years.

But they used up almost an entire ZPM in 4 days, so it would take them 20 years and almost 2000 ZPMs to bring the crew on the Destiny back home. And if they had the ability to produce that much energy, they might as well use it to dial the Stargate on the ship and send enough ZPMs through for them to dial back home.

[nataylor]

But they used up almost an entire ZPM in 4 days, so it would take them 20 years and almost 2000 ZPMs to bring the crew on the Destiny back home. And if they had the ability to produce that much energy, they might as well use it to dial the Stargate on the ship and send enough ZPMs through for them to dial back home.

I figure it's just a matter of time for them to figure out how to make their own ZPMs. :)

[marrone]

Regarding "Mom"...if she indeed went public (which she'll have to...if they bring her daughter back home, the show is over), who'd believe her anyway?
Assuming she could get the media's attention to the matter, all it would take is the President (her close & personal friend) to publicly respond "Yeah, that would make for a great television series" with a laugh, then return to his presidential duties.

'Course, "Mom" would shortly thereafter disappear.

-Mike

[nataylor]

Regarding "Mom"...if she indeed went public (which she'll have to...if they bring her daughter back home, the show is over), who'd believe her anyway?
Assuming she could get the media's attention to the matter, all it would take is the President (her close & personal friend) to publicly respond "Yeah, that would make for a great television series" with a laugh, then return to his presidential duties.

'Course, "Mom" would shortly thereafter disappear.

-Mike

I assume that she'd have information about the Battle of Antarctica, the crashing of the Asgard ship, the explosion of Apophis' mother ship, etc. Stuff that people would have noticed, but they were given "mundane" explanations for. If she put all this information together, and the fact she's the wife of a now-missing senator, I'm sure she'd get some people's attention.

Just look at how all the 9/11 conspiracy theories have grown. Imagine if someone came out with some real information that was actually true.

[RGM1138]

Wow, I never ran the numbers, but they made hyperdrive travel way too powerful. You could cross the entire observable universe in less than 50 years at 300 million times the speed of light. Or you can go anywhere in the Milky Way in under 3 hours.


Yeah, but can they make the Kessel Run in less than twelve parsecs?

:)

Bob

[gchance]

Just look at how all the 9/11 conspiracy theories have grown. Imagine if someone came out with some real information that was actually true.

Which brings up a question I asked quite a while ago and nobody bothered to answer...

What of 9/11? Couldn't all the technology acquired by the SG program have been used to A) detect the terrorist activity or B) find Osama Bin Laden?

I mean, if the government hired Johnny Smith and his ragtag team of crack psychics to find Bin Laden, don't you think the SG program would help?

Greg

[retrodog]

The music on this show sucks. I'll still watch it since it is Sci-fi (I refuse to type scfy) but it isn't doing a lot for me. Strange cast, with few likeable characters. Who am I suppposed to be liking here? I like everyone on the SG1 and Atlantis cast for the most part. I would have killed off Rodney, but this cast doesn't have a lot going for it.

Mad Scientist??
Likeable Young Soldier
Insane/borderline evil ghetto soldier
Amazed fat normal guy brainy character
Bitchy Asian
Not sure what Lou Diamond is doing??
F'd up Commander?

Who am I supposed to get behind here and really like? You tell me...Was that really necessary? The guy acts borderline violent most of the time, and the rest of the time he actually is violent. But they busted him out of the brig right before the evac. And he doesn't talk with a high degree of ebonics or anything else that would make me think he was from the ghetto. So is that just a racist attack on him for being violence prone, or just a racist insult in general? The guy's messed up, that's for sure. But why do you just automatically associate it with the ghetto? I got the impression that he was like that from being in the military and seeing stuff in Iraq that made him that way.

Maybe you've just been watching Survivor too much. :p

[IndyJones1023]

Which brings up a question I asked quite a while ago and nobody bothered to answer...

What of 9/11? Couldn't all the technology acquired by the SG program have been used to A) detect the terrorist activity or B) find Osama Bin Laden?

Who's to say in teh SG world that they didn't do just that? Since the program focuses on off world activities (and the rare Earth incursion), we'll never know. So there's no point in even asking the question.

[whitson77]

Was that really necessary? The guy acts borderline violent most of the time, and the rest of the time he actually is violent. But they busted him out of the brig right before the evac. And he doesn't talk with a high degree of ebonics or anything else that would make me think he was from the ghetto. So is that just a racist attack on him for being violence prone, or just a racist insult in general? The guy's messed up, that's for sure. But why do you just automatically associate it with the ghetto? I got the impression that he was like that from being in the military and seeing stuff in Iraq that made him that way.

Maybe you've just been watching Survivor too much. :p

I don't know if you are being serious or not, but he comes off as an uneducated thug from the streets. IF the character was white, I would have said the same thing. You do realize there are white uneducated thugs too who live in the ghettos in this country right. I didn't say anything derogatory about his color (nor would I ever), you going there makes me wonder why you assumed I was being racist. Step off the soapbox and chill out.

[Rob Helmerichs]

Which brings up a question I asked quite a while ago and nobody bothered to answer...

What of 9/11? Couldn't all the technology acquired by the SG program have been used to A) detect the terrorist activity or B) find Osama Bin Laden?
I don't know about bin Laden, but we had all the information we needed to detect the terrorist activity. We just didn't do it. Having fancier toys wouldn't really have made much difference in that regard.

[busyba]

Which brings up a question I asked quite a while ago and nobody bothered to answer...

What of 9/11? Couldn't all the technology acquired by the SG program have been used to A) detect the terrorist activity or B) find Osama Bin Laden?

I mean, if the government hired Johnny Smith and his ragtag team of crack psychics to find Bin Laden, don't you think the SG program would help?

Greg

Did 9/11 happen in the Stargativerse?

Has the government been using advanced tech for "domestic" operations at all, or just against off-world threats?

(Besides that rogue operation, that is...)

[retrodog]

I don't know if you are being serious or not, but he comes off as an uneducated thug from the streets. IF the character was white, I would have said the same thing. You do realize there are white uneducated thugs too who live in the ghettos in this country right. I didn't say anything derogatory about his color (nor would I ever), you going there makes me wonder why you assumed I was being racist. Step off the soapbox and chill out.
I think that some people are too reckless with phrases like this and then try to claim "I wasn't being racist" when it's pointed out.

If you want to call someone uneducated, then just call them uneducated. I don't understand what additional distinction you were going for by using the term "ghetto".

Oh, and I'm perfect calm. I don't have to get all wound up to point out this kind of stuff. Emotional ranting is for the lazy.

[nataylor]

Did 9/11 happen in the Stargativerse?

Has the government been using advanced tech for "domestic" operations at all, or just against off-world threats?

(Besides that rogue operation, that is...)

I get the impression that advanced tech is still a closely guarded secret and only select parts of the military and civilian government know about it and the true origins.

[retrodog]

I get the impression that advanced tech is still a closely guarded secret and only select parts of the military and civilian government know about it and the true origins.

Yeah, otherwise they'd be beaming bad guys out of their beds at night and locking them away in Cuba. :D

[Anubys]

I don't know if you are being serious or not, but he comes off as an uneducated thug from the streets. IF the character was white, I would have said the same thing. You do realize there are white uneducated thugs too who live in the ghettos in this country right. I didn't say anything derogatory about his color (nor would I ever), you going there makes me wonder why you assumed I was being racist. Step off the soapbox and chill out.

moreover, they alluded (if not outright said it, I don't recall the exact details) in this ep that had he not gotten into the military, he would have ended up as a jailed thug...I don't think what you said was out of line given that this seems to be the exact direction they are taking with the character...

[oscarfish]

Not sure if this has been discussed in this long thread or not, so I'll mention it. Carter asked O'Neal (I think) how "they" could have found out about either the base itself or the new experiment. That made me think that someone is a spy or something similar. I thought for sure it was LDP, but since I saw that little ship take off at the end, now I'm not so sure.

[Jebberwocky!]

moreover, they alluded (if not outright said it, I don't recall the exact details) in this ep that had he not gotten into the military, he would have ended up as a jailed thug...I don't think what you said was out of line given that this seems to be the exact direction they are taking with the character...

I think it is the increased perception that anything referred to as ghetto is a slam on blacks - this was reinforced a week back on Survivor as Dog mentioned when someone referred to a black lady as ghetto trash which would be considered by many as a racist comment regardless of the intent. I know the other black person on the show was highly offended.

When I first read the post I thought oh no, someone's going to call Whit on that one :)

[MickeS]

I think that some people are too reckless with phrases like this and then try to claim "I wasn't being racist" when it's pointed out.

If you want to call someone uneducated, then just call them uneducated. I don't understand what additional distinction you were going for by using the term "ghetto".

Oh, and I'm perfect calm. I don't have to get all wound up to point out this kind of stuff. Emotional ranting is for the lazy.

The use of "ghetto" there stood out to me too. It just seemed very odd, considering we know literally nothing about the character other than that he was in a jail cell before the stargate event. I'm sure nothing was meant with it, but odd use of the word.

[Bierboy]

...At least it isn't Atlantis - that one I wrote off after the second ep. This will get another try next week...

You gave SGA one more ep than I did. And I'm sticking with this one to the bitter end...simply because I like Eli.

[whitson77]

If they did a flashback to where this character grew up, where would it be most likely based on his actions and speech? Even his character profile says he has a very poor background. Ghetto is an appropriate word and nothing to get up and arms about. Sometimes the PC police aren't being PC, but are being complete morons.

I didn't bring race into the equation. Retro did which I find strange and truly stupid. Why place the race card, when I didn't? Poverty isn't exclusive to Blacks, White, Latinos.

I just want to add, I have never once in my life ever been accused of racism. My friend spectrum is all over the map, and I couldn't care less what your color, sexual orientation, religion is. I'm always cool with everyone who is friendly to me.

[whitson77]

moreover, they alluded (if not outright said it, I don't recall the exact details) in this ep that had he not gotten into the military, he would have ended up as a jailed thug...I don't think what you said was out of line given that this seems to be the exact direction they are taking with the character...

Clearly, that is the type of character they are intending to show, at least in the early going. I am assuming he is eventually going to be a round chracter like Ronan with a big heart. If I said, "I really feel for those kids growing up in that horrible Baltimore ghetto on the Wire." Would I be accused of being a racist. LOL. God I hope not, because that would just show ignorance on the accusers part. :D

[Bierboy]

...The only problem was that the actual story of this episode was dull, and the desert environment got boring real quick. I hope they come back next week with a more interesting story for the episode. I will definitely keep watching, as the overall theme of the series already has me hooked.

With this, I agree. I was thinking the same thing --"...desert, boring, get off of it NOW..."

[MickeS]

I didn't bring race into the equation. Retro did which I find strange and truly stupid. Why place the race card, when I didn't? Poverty isn't exclusive to Blacks, White, Latinos.

Yeah, that's why you referred to Rush as being "ghetto" after he told us about his poor background.

:D :p

[whitson77]

Yeah, that's why you referred to Rush as being "ghetto" after he told us about his poor background.

:D :p

I called that whitey a slumdog. Get it right. :D

[Anubys]

Clearly, that is the type of character they are intending to show, at least in the early going. I am assuming he is eventually going to be a round chracter like Ronan with a big heart. If I said, "I really feel for those kids growing up in that horrible Baltimore ghetto on the Wire." Would I be accused of being a racist. LOL. God I hope not, because that would just show ignorance on the accusers part. :D

for the record, I still think Romo is Ghetto trash :D ;)

[retrodog]

If they did a flashback to where this character grew up, where would it be most likely based on his actions and speech? Even his character profile says he has a very poor background. Ghetto is an appropriate word and nothing to get up and arms about. Sometimes the PC police aren't being PC, but are being complete morons. So now you're calling me a moron for pointing out racist remarks that you made. Nice spin there. Your denial that "ghetto" is a racially charged word is truly indicative of one of two things:

1. A racist who wants to claim that they are not being racist.
2. Someone who is tired of being told what they can and can't do so they always want to take a stand by denying society and violating anything they can get away with. These are usually married men or just a momma's boy who didn't know how to say no to mommy or wifey, so they compensate by this technique. It's a therapeautic response to a feeling of lack of control.

I didn't bring race into the equation. Retro did which I find strange and truly stupid. Why place the race card, when I didn't? Poverty isn't exclusive to Blacks, White, Latinos. Ok, now I'm being stupid. Well that's a good example that you can use that word instead of "ghetto". I guess I'm lucky that I'm a white guy so that I just get called stupid.

I just want to add, I have never once in my life ever been accused of racism. Well you'll never be able to make that statement again. Actually, I don't relaly think you're being intentionally racist. Just racially ignorant. Or should I say socially "ghetto"? My friend spectrum is all over the map, and I could care less what your color, sexual orientation, religion is. I'm always cool with everyone who is friendly to me.
I agree, you could indeed care less. And I wish you would care less about that stuff. If you did care less then maybe you wouldn't use terms like "ghetto" when you're talking about a black guy.

I guess this really all boils down to racial insensitivity, and whether that qualifies as racism. At least that's what most people would think about this topic. But I contend that "insensitivity" implies passive resistance. The act of using racially based terms like this is active. I think the real problem is that you've rationalized it in your head to the point of thinking that it's ok and no one should be bothered about it. Most black people might read it and choose to let it slide because it doesn't seem important enough and hey "ya gotta choose your battles", right? That doesn't mean that they don't find it offensive, and it doens't mean that it's not offensive. Maybe they just keep their mouths closed so that someone doesn't blame them of playing the race card. It's sort of impossible for me to play this race card since I'm not really black, so I don't understand why you claim I'm playing some race card as that term doesn't apply here. Maybe you're just too "ghetto" to use your terms correctly.

Do I think you're a racist? No, I don't. I think you're racially careless and that can propogates the same problems at times.

[Archangel00]

So now you're calling me a moron...

<snip>blah...OFF TOPIC, meaningless, racially charged, politically charged, wall of BULL, blah.....<snip>

if the shoe fits...

[mrdbdigital]

Hey, guys.... Enough talk about racism. Let's get the thread back on topic, please?

[whitson77]

Hey, guys.... Enough talk about racism. Let's get the thread back on topic, please?

Done. Sometimes you just have to shrug...

[morac]

Not that I really want to get involved nor do I really care, but if you're going to use a word, you should at least know what it means.

The definition of "ghetto" isn't simply a place where poor people live, it's a place where poor people of a certain ethnicity or minority group live (originally it meant forced to live there against there will). Unless your using the slang version of the word which means "cool", but that doesn't seem to apply in this case.

See Definition of ghetto (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ghetto?o=).

[retrodog]

if the shoe fits...It's a little loose and made of glass. And I prefer pumps. It's all yours, cinderella.

[whitson77]

Not that I really want to get involved nor do I really care, but if you're going to use a word, you should at least know what it means.

The definition of "ghetto" isn't simply a place where poor people live, it's a place where poor people of a certain ethnicity or minority group live (originally it meant forced to live there against there will). Unless your using the slang version of the word which means "cool", but that doesn't seem to apply in this case.

See Definition of ghetto (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/ghetto?o=).

I know what it means and there have been numerous black writers who use the term ghetto only to demonstrate that they came from poverty filled areas and they use the word without malice. See Langston Hughes, Ralph Ellison, etc. In the past it was has been used negatively, but words progress. It just means a poor urban area to a lot of people. Like I said before, I could say lots of kids live in the horrible conditions in the Baltimore ghettos in the HBO series the Wire. You could choose to find that statement racist if you want, but why would you? The character in SG: U has already established he grew up in a very bad area, and joined the military to stay out of jail. So far, he has shown zero redeemable qualities and comes off as uncouth and abrasive. I also just as briefly listed many other characters to this point I find unlikeable soley based on the little we've been given about them. Finding anything racist in my statement seems thin at best.

I hated the song choices too, does that make me a music hater? :)

[classicX]

If they did a flashback to where this character grew up, where would it be most likely based on his actions

Jail, or something like it.

and speech?

The suburbs.

Even his character profile says he has a very poor background. Ghetto is an appropriate word and nothing to get up and arms about.

Just because someone is poor doesn't mean they are from a ghetto.

While I don't take offense to your use of the word, I did find it's placement in your post odd, given the definition of the word.

You may be hearing improper English where there is none, given that you mention his speech. Unless you're referring to his threatening words, which I would classify as actions and not speech.

As far as his education, nothing he has done leads me to believe he is not educated. He just seems to see everyone as a combatant, which is why I think his actions are more like prison behavior where that is often the case.

Given Rush's rambling about also being from a poor background, but pulling himself up and getting his degrees and making something out of his life, I wouldn't be surprised if they later reveal that the soldier is more educated than Rush thinks.

I am also not surprised that you didn't classify Rush as ghetto as well. Although he admitted that he came from meager beginnings, does his doctorate degree somehow render his exempt from the term?

[classicX]

The character in SG: U has already established he grew up in a very bad area.

I never saw anything alluding to this, but maybe I missed it.

[cheesesteak]

This thread sucks now. Please take your fight to private message.

[classicX]

I suspect that most of what we'll see this season (or at least the next few episodes) is them trying to fix issues with the ship.

I sincerely hope that's not the case though, I think using that to establish a crew dynamic would make for some very boring episodes. I want to see new and interesting things, we've seen the "we're gonna die unless we fix this thing" countless times on SG series'.

[Anubys]

I suspect that most of what we'll see this season (or at least the next few episodes) is them trying to fix issues with the ship.

I sincerely hope that's not the case though, I think using that to establish a crew dynamic would make for some very boring episodes. I want to see new and interesting things, we've seen the "we're gonna die unless we fix this thing" countless times on SG series'.

Well, most of Atlantis' first missions were all about finding ZPMs...but they eventually moved past that...you can have plenty of missions looking to fix the ship AND see new and interesting things...I mean, they will have to eventually bump into some big bad people!

I suspect we already saw them at the end of this ep...

[classicX]

This thread sucks now. Please take your fight to private message.

I am sorry, I didn't mean for my post to be so long.

[retrodog]

I suspect that most of what we'll see this season (or at least the next few episodes) is them trying to fix issues with the ship.

I sincerely hope that's not the case though, I think using that to establish a crew dynamic would make for some very boring episodes. I want to see new and interesting things, we've seen the "we're gonna die unless we fix this thing" countless times on SG series'.

I suspect that we'll see them run into other beings and all the stuff that any other space ship based show would do but a big part of the theme will be dealing with these others while needing to repair the ship to get some function (weapons or whatever) back online to handle the matter. That could either be interesting or suck. We'll just have to see how they do.

[IndyJones1023]

I'm eager to see how they're going to address the language issue.

[eddyj]

I'm eager to see how they're going to address the language issue.

By hand-waving it away, like every other show?

[retrodog]

I'm eager to see how they're going to address the language issue.

The same way they deal with gravitational deviations.

[IndyJones1023]

Use gravitational compensators?

[retrodog]

Use gravitational compensators?

Yeah, on all the moons and planets that they visit. And I don't think they've ever visited a ship (non-functional) that was absent of gravity.

[MickeS]

I'm eager to see how they're going to address the language issue.

This has always been a huge issue with SG (andany other similar series). I doubt they will deal with it any differently than in the past, but it would be nice to see a TV show where the aliens did not speak English. :)

[IndyJones1023]

Farscape dealt with it the best.

[retrodog]

This has always been a huge issue with SG (andany other similar series). I doubt they will deal with it any differently than in the past, but it would be nice to see a TV show where the aliens did not speak English. :)

At least Star Trek TNG dealt with a variation of it. The aliens spoke English through the UT, but used inside references for everything so even the universal translators couldn't bridge that communication barrier. It had to be handled the old-fashioned way... learn it.

[retrodog]

Farscape dealt with it the best.

Yeah, too bad it was so bizarre. :D

[MickeS]

Farscape dealt with it the best.

I never watched that show, what did they do?

[danterner]

I'm trying to remember the way Farscape dealt with this. It was bacteria that translated, right?

ETA: Found it (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_translator). The link is to a wikipedia page that includes lots of sci fi shows and how they've dealt with the "universal translator" issue.

Farscape:

On the TV show Farscape John Crichton is injected with bacteria called translator microbes which function as a sort of "Universal Translator." The microbes colonize the host's brain stem and translate anything spoken to him/her/it, passing along the translated information to the host's brain. This does not enable the injected person to speak other languages; they continue to speak their own language and are only understood by others as long as the listeners possess the microbes. The microbes sometimes fail to properly translate slang, translating it literally. Also, the translator microbes are unable to translate the natural language of the alien Pilots because every word in their language can contain thousands of meanings, far too many for the microbes to translate, thus Pilots must learn to speak in "simple sentences." The implanted can learn to speak new languages if they want or to make communicating with non-injected individuals possible. The crew of Moya learned English from their human friend John Crichton, thereby being able to communicate with the non-implanted populace when the crew visited Earth. Some species, such as the Kalish, cannot use translator microbes because their body rejects them, so they must learn a new language the old-fashioned way.

[busyba]

Farscape dealt with it the best.

No. Hitchiker's Guide to the Galaxy did. :)

[sooperkool]

I suspect that we'll see them run into other beings and all the stuff that any other space ship based show would do but a big part of the theme will be dealing with these others while needing to repair the ship to get some function (weapons or whatever) back online to handle the matter. That could either be interesting or suck. We'll just have to see how they do.

That premise would mean its just SG:A again.

[MickeS]

That premise would mean its just SG:A again.

Well, the entire premise of the show is very SG:A already.

[retrodog]

That premise would mean its just SG:A again.

Yep, exactly.

I think they should modify those little floating globes to add a three pronged spike, and a drill bit. That would make a really scary weapon. But they'd have to get someone tall to operate them. Then the short ugly people could run around and clean up all the dead bodies later.

[hapdrastic]

At least Star Trek TNG dealt with a variation of it. The aliens spoke English through the UT, but used inside references for everything so even the universal translators couldn't bridge that communication barrier. It had to be handled the old-fashioned way... learn it.

I assume you're referring to the episode Darmok (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darmok). Great episode. "Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra".

[busyba]

I assume you're referring to the episode Darmok (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Darmok). Great episode. "Darmok and Jalad at Tanagra".

Shaka, when the walls fell. :(

[ehusen]

Yep, exactly.

I think they should modify those little floating globes to add a three pronged spike, and a drill bit. That would make a really scary weapon. But they'd have to get someone tall to operate them. Then the short ugly people could run around and clean up all the dead bodies later.

Dude! I thought this the very moment I saw those globes. :) In my head I immediately pictured one flying into somebody's head and pumping out the soft inner bits.

Glad to see I'm not the only one...

[danterner]

Yep, exactly.

I think they should modify those little floating globes to add a three pronged spike, and a drill bit. That would make a really scary weapon. But they'd have to get someone tall to operate them. Then the short ugly people could run around and clean up all the dead bodies later.

That would be phantastic! :up:

[Stormspace]

Actually the frost thing was from the movie, the show was just keeping that for consistency.

I suspect the actors probably didn't like it and you can imagine how old tht would get after only a few times, so they got rid of that piece of canon.

I think they explained that away by mentioning that the gates power input was adjusted or something.

[eddyj]

I think they explained that away by mentioning that the gates power input was adjusted or something.

They had to adjust the coordinates for changes due to planetary motion over the years, or some similar hand waving. But they DID account for it.

[RGM1138]

At least Star Trek TNG dealt with a variation of it. The aliens spoke English through the UT, but used inside references for everything so even the universal translators couldn't bridge that communication barrier. It had to be handled the old-fashioned way... learn it.

Not to nitpick, but they did have the UT way back on TOS.

Bob

[retrodog]

Not to nitpick, but they did have the UT way back on TOS.

Bob

How is that nitpicking?

[oscarfish]

I actually liked the way the very first episodes of Enterprise dealt with the language thing. They made it clear, to me at least, that the communications officer was the most important person on that ship.

[RGM1138]

How is that nitpicking?


Well, I could have just let it slide. The UT was a Trek invention, (as best as I can recall), and the fact that it was used in TNG does cover that in the overall scheme of things. I was just being anal, I guess.

Bob

[mrdbdigital]

I suspect that most of what we'll see this season (or at least the next few episodes) is them trying to fix issues with the ship.


I think you're right. Here is the first season episode titles. Draw what you will from the titles:

Air - Part 1
Air - Part 2
Air - Part 3
Darkness
Light
Water
Earth
Life
Time
Justice
Space
Divided
Faith
Human
Sabotage
Lost
Pain
Subversion (originally omitted by me)
Incursion - Part 1
Incursion - Part 2

http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Stargate_Infinity_Series_Bible

[danterner]

I think you're right. Here is the first season episode titles. Draw what you will from the titles:

Air - Part 1
Air - Part 2
Air - Part 3
Darkness
Light
Water
Earth
Life
Time
Justice
Space
Divided
Faith
Human
Sabotage
Lost
Pain
Incursion - Part 1
Incursion - Part 2

http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Stargate_Infinity_Series_Bible

Bah. I hate one word-show titles. Smallville does this, and it's so hard, looking back, to recall if I've seen a given show based on the title. "Friends" had the best show titles, I think. (That aside, I draw the same conclusion as you from these titles. At least up through 'Water').

[retrodog]

Well, I could have just let it slide. The UT was a Trek invention, (as best as I can recall), and the fact that it was used in TNG does cover that in the overall scheme of things. I was just being anal, I guess.

Bob

Well I must be thick headed because I can't see why you pointing out that they had UT devices on ST TOS had anything to do with what I was talking about. Not in any way that contradicted my post. What was it in my post that you thought needed corrected? I was merely pointing out that the ST universe used UTs and still had a problem with communicating... meaning that translating the words was only half of the equation in some cases.

[RGM1138]

Well I must be thick headed because I can't see why you pointing out that they had UT devices on ST TOS had anything to do with what I was talking about. Not in any way that contradicted my post. What was it in my post that you thought needed corrected? I was merely pointing out that the ST universe used UTs and still had a problem with communicating... meaning that translating the words was only half of the equation in some cases.

Yeah, you're right. I didn't totally read the the post you were replying to, or grasp the full context of it before I replied to your post.

Bob

[classicX]

I think you're right. Here is the first season episode titles. Draw what you will from the titles:

Air - Part 1
Air - Part 2
Air - Part 3
Darkness
Light
Water
Earth
Life
Time
Justice
Space
Divided
Faith
Human
Sabotage
Lost
Pain
Incursion - Part 1
Incursion - Part 2

http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Stargate_Infinity_Series_Bible

On first reading those titles I thought you were making them up. Here's what I think:

Air - Part 1 [already aired]
Air - Part 2 [already aired]
Air - Part 3 [already aired]
Darkness - The ship needs a replacement power source.
Light - The ship gets too close to a star.
Water - The crew needs a water source.
Earth - They figure out how to communicate with Earth, but there is some sort of catch.
Life - Someone kills someone else.
Time - The crew get what they think is some much needed R&R on a planet.
Justice - The crew finds out about a murder, and struggle with how to punish the perpetrator.
Space - The ship is getting ready to leave the galaxy.
Divided - Half of the crew wants to use the little time they have left in the galaxy to find and colonize a habitable planet, rather than spend the rest of their lives on the Destiny.
Faith - Rush tries to convince the crew that the ship actually has a hyper drive, but it only engages when the ship is out of range of the closest galaxy.
Human - They encounter the English speaking aliens.
Sabotage - Someone wants to destroy the Destiny to prevent it from leaving the current galaxy.
Lost - The sabotage from the previous episode causes the Destiny to take on a new trajectory.
Pain - The crew is taken hostage by English speaking aliens and tortured, but they finally get free and get back to the ship, but did they all make it?
Subversion - The episode you neglected to paste. The English speaking aliens now have Human-looking spies on the ship.
Incursion - Part 1 - The English speaking aliens attack.
Incursion - Part 2 - the English speaking aliens continue to attack, but the English speaking Furlings happen to be around to help.*


Wild guesses, but that's what happens when you have one-word titles.


*wishful thinking.

[busyba]

Earth - They figure out how to communicate with Earth, but there is some sort of catch.

They already can communicate with Earth.

[Stormspace]

Here's the real way it shakes out. ;)

Air - Part 1
Air - Part 2 { As in running out of..}
Air - Part 3
Darkness { The light source on the ship fails }
Light { They fix it }
Water { No water on the ship. Figure a way to make it, or find some }
Earth { Food supply is going... Find a way to grow something }
Life { They grow something or find a food source }
Time { Having satisfied their basic needs they now have time to explore }
Justice { That Sargent is tried for his earlier infractions }
Space { They start exploring because it's fairly tight in the original area }
Divided { In exploring the ship, a section fails and explorers are separated from the main group}
Faith { They resign themselves to finding a way home }
Human { First contact }
Sabotage { Someone tries to make the ship stop, since no one else wants to }
Subversion { The IOA decides to take advantage of the situation }
Lost { The stones get damaged }
Pain { Many people are hurt in an accident }
Incursion - Part 1 { Aliens! }
Incursion - Part 2 { We beat em! }

[windracer]

Water { No water on the ship. Figure a way to make it, or find some }
Another BSG episode. ;)

[eddyj]

They already can communicate with Earth.

He meant communicate with Ereth. The catch being that they die of old age before they finish reading his message. :p

[classicX]

They already can communicate with Earth.

I mean a different way, without using the stones, which are apparently off-limits to most of the people on-board.

Maybe another consciousness-transferring device that they activate accidentally, just like when they first encountered the stones.

[Anubys]

I mean a different way, without using the stone, which are apparently off-limits to most of the people on-board.

Maybe another consciousness-transferring device that they activate accidentally, just like when they first encountered the stones.

I don't think they're off limits as much as right now they were in a crisis and needed them for critical communication (such as telling the wife that her husband died)...I imagine they will be used on a regular basis once everything is settled...

[retrodog]

The UPA and air handlers take care of producing water.

[mrdbdigital]

Subversion - The episode you neglected to paste.

Thanks, I went back and corrected my omission. :up:

[Stormspace]

The UPA and air handlers take care of producing water.

I think they specifically said that that thing was an air handler, but I'm probably wrong. :)

BTW: Went back and added Subversion as well. ;)

[windracer]

BTW: Went back and added Subversion as well. ;)
That's the episode where Eli discovers the source code of Destiny's systems, forks it, and uploads it to SourceForge.

[ksmelcer]

The UPA and air handlers take care of producing water.

When Rush came back from the planet, didn't the tech who gave him the water say something like "well there goes my water for the day"?

[ronsch]

When Rush came back from the planet, didn't the tech who gave him the water say something like "well there goes my water for the day"?

He did indeed!

[Stormspace]

That's the episode where Eli discovers the source code of Destiny's systems, forks it, and uploads it to SourceForge.

LOL! Funniest thing all day!

[classicX]

I'm sure they'll find a planet made of ice or something and try to get at it.

[vertigo235]

I'm sure they'll find a planet made of ice or something and try to get at it.

Yup

[marrone]

"Friends" had the best show titles, I think.I never liked them.
They always started with "The One With" or "The One Where", or something like that.
If the real title was too long, TiVo cut it off.
They should have eliminated "The One With" and kept the rest. After 10 or so seasons worth of titles, it got pretty redundant.

-Mike

[classicX]

Seinfeld's titles are good.

[retrodog]

The Big Bang Theory has the best titles.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0898266/episodes

[Keen]

Farscape has the best episode titles (at least for seasons 2+).
I mean a different way, without using the stones, which are apparently off-limits to most of the people on-board.

Maybe another consciousness-transferring device that they activate accidentally, just like when they first encountered the stones.I'm betting that before the end of the season, Earth will figure out a way to connect to the Destiny's stargate. This won't let people get off Destiny, but will allow for supplies and tech to be sent to Destiny.

[busyba]

I'm betting that before the end of the season, Earth will figure out a way to connect to the Destiny's stargate. This won't let people get off Destiny, but will allow for supplies and tech to be sent to Destiny.

General wormhole technology question: what happens when you try to go through a stargate that has an incoming wormhole active? Do you just bounce off the puddle like it's a wall, do you go through it and end up on the other side of your gate as if it weren't even on, or do you dissolve into molecules and scatter and die?

[nataylor]

General wormhole technology question: what happens when you try to go through a stargate that has an incoming wormhole active? Do you just bounce off the puddle like it's a wall, do you go through it and end up on the other side of your gate as if it weren't even on, or do you dissolve into molecules and scatter and die?
I don't think we've ever seen what happens, nor have they mentioned the consequences.

[IndyJones1023]

I don't think we've ever seen what happens, nor have they mentioned the consequences.

It's been mentioned. It's a very bad thing.

[mchasal]

Not entirely answered, but a thread on it at Gateworld: http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?p=9040440

[nataylor]

Not entirely answered, but a thread on it at Gateworld: http://forum.gateworld.net/showthread.php?p=10729990

That's different. That's entering the gate through the "back" (the side that doesn't have the vortex shoot out). We've certainly never seen someone even try to go through the "back."

[marrone]

General wormhole technology question: what happens when you try to go through a stargate that has an incoming wormhole active? Do you just bounce off the puddle like it's a wall, do you go through it and end up on the other side of your gate as if it weren't even on, or do you dissolve into molecules and scatter and die?

I would think the "puddle" would effectively be a brick wall, or a bounce.

It's been shown in various episodes (I believe a SG1 and Atlantis, though I'm too lazy to look them up) that radio signals will go through the other way (which we know) but that solid objects won't ('cause it's 1-way). The specific episodes have to do with the stargate being under water (SG1) or partially (Atlantis). The water is obviously pushing against the puddle but isn't going through (so it isn't being vaporized). That would suggest if someone tried to hop through the wrong way, they'd never get through the puddle to begin with, but would just be stopped.

-Mike

[marrone]

Farscape has the best episode titles (at least for seasons 2+).
I'm betting that before the end of the season, Earth will figure out a way to connect to the Destiny's stargate. This won't let people get off Destiny, but will allow for supplies and tech to be sent to Destiny.

Question: has it been established WHY only that one gate worked? Was it a security measure by the ancients (gate programming, or the gate on the ship's programming), or was there something in that specific gate that allowed the 9th chevron?

(ie can Earth's gate even handle a 9th chevron? Forget the power requirements)
-Mike

[nataylor]

Question: has it been established WHY only that one gate worked? Was it a security measure by the ancients (gate programming, or the gate on the ship's programming), or was there something in that specific gate that allowed the 9th chevron?They said that the Icarus gate was the only one in the galaxy that had a sufficient power source.

[mchasal]

That's different. That's entering the gate through the "back" (the side that doesn't have the vortex shoot out). We've certainly never seen someone even try to go through the "back."

Actually, I think you're mistaken, from the original post there:

"What happens to a person that goes into a Stargate wormhole, when it was initiated from the other end."

There was confusion about it in the referenced thread too, so it's understandable.

[Keen]

General wormhole technology question: what happens when you try to go through a stargate that has an incoming wormhole active? Do you just bounce off the puddle like it's a wall, do you go through it and end up on the other side of your gate as if it weren't even on, or do you dissolve into molecules and scatter and die?
You go into the puddle and the gate destroys you. SG-1 lost a MALP in an episode when they sent one through to a gate that was horizontal. The MALP came out the other side, then fell back into the puddle and was gone.

[nataylor]

Actually, I think you're mistaken, from the original post there:

"What happens to a person that goes into a Stargate wormhole, when it was initiated from the other end."

There was confusion about it in the referenced thread too, so it's understandable.

Sorry, your link jumped right to the last post on the page, where the guy is talking about going in the back side of the gate.

[mchasal]

Sorry, your link jumped right to the last post on the page, where the guy is talking about going in the back side of the gate.

Ah, my bad. I'll fix the link.

[marrone]

You go into the puddle and the gate destroys you. SG-1 lost a MALP in an episode when they sent one through to a gate that was horizontal. The MALP came out the other side, then fell back into the puddle and was gone.
Hmmm, so much for my theory.

Maybe that's only for solid objects, and liquids are unaffected. Otherwise the stargate that was underwater would have incinerated all the water in the ocean (yeah, that sounds odd, I know).

-Mike

[marrone]

They said that the Icarus gate was the only one in the galaxy that had a sufficient power source.

So technically Earth (or another gate) should be able to dial out to the ship if they had a power source (ie ZPM, two ZPMs, black hole, etc). Hey, now that's an idea...they've done that once already, right? They should be able to do it again.

-Mike

[busyba]

So technically Earth (or another gate) should be able to dial out to the ship if they had a power source (ie ZPM, two ZPMs, black hole, etc). Hey, now that's an idea...they've done that once already, right? They should be able to do it again.

-Mike

Apparently the energy required to use that last extra cheveron was far beyond what ZPMs could produce. That's why they were on that other planet; they needed to tap into the geothermal energy of the entire planet, and doing so resulted in an instability that made the planet go boom.

So dialing from Earth is probably a Bad Idea(tm).

[marrone]

Still got the black hole idea, though.

Actually, I thought the planet going kaboom was due to a hit from the attacking fleet? Or am I mistaken (my DirecTV feed cuts out on SyFy a lot, and it cut out a lot during the attack)?

-Mike

[busyba]

The hits from the enemy fleet damaged the stuff that was tapping into the core of the planet and that led to the instability that led to the kaboom.

If they weren't already mucking about with the planet's core, the barrage from the fleet would not have blown the planet up that easily.