Dollhouse "Belle Chose" OAD 10/9/09 [Text View]

Robin

10-09-2009, 10:43 PM

Much better!

I kept thinking "Echo's story line is insanely boring. There's got to be a twist coming up." And voila.

Victor dancing as Kiki? Priceless. And him snuggling Ballard.

Now Echo has a serial killer as one of her many personalities floating around in there. Whoops.

One thing that bugged: why/how did Victor punch out the guy at the club? It's been previously confirmed that actives don't get baseline "JIC" fighting skills, so WTF did that come from?

ct1

10-10-2009, 12:22 PM

One thing that bugged: why/how did Victor punch out the guy at the club? It's been previously confirmed that actives don't get baseline "JIC" fighting skills, so WTF did that come from?

Kiki has a boxing hobby? :p

LoadStar

10-10-2009, 01:05 PM

I'll beat Alfer: Dollhouse got somewhat better ratings than last week, though it would be hard for them to get much worse. Overnights have them at a 1.0 rating/3 share, with 2.25 mil watching. They did beat ABC (a rerun of Modern Family) and CW (a rerun of America's Next Top Model) though.

One thing that bugged: why/how did Victor punch out the guy at the club? It's been previously confirmed that actives don't get baseline "JIC" fighting skills, so WTF did that come from?
Probably just reflexive, with "Kiki" not knowing "her" own strength at that point.

IndyJones1023

10-10-2009, 04:32 PM

Victor has composited like Echo, but wasn't he Echo at that point? So her fighting skills came out.

LoadStar

10-10-2009, 04:34 PM

Victor has composited like Echo, but wasn't he Echo at that point? So her fighting skills came out.

No, the "Kiki" persona got dumped into Victor, and the serial killer guy got dumped into Echo.

IndyJones1023

10-10-2009, 04:37 PM

No, the "Kiki" persona got dumped into Victor, and the serial killer guy got dumped into Echo.

And who was Kiki in?

LoadStar

10-10-2009, 04:43 PM

And who was Kiki in?

Well, I think I get what you're saying, but when programmed with a persona, that is what is (usually) in total control... it doesn't get anything from the Active. So, even though Echo was first programmed with the Kiki persona, Kiki doesn't gain anything from being in Echo.

Now, Echo is the exception that seems to be able to not only recall essences of the personas after being "wiped," but also seems to fritz out and break out of the persona... but Echo is still separate from the personas she gets.

IndyJones1023

10-10-2009, 04:45 PM

During the blackout, weren't they switched? I'm saying when Kiki transferred from Echo to Victor, perhaps a little bit of Composite Echo slipped in as well.

JYoung

10-10-2009, 05:03 PM

During the blackout, weren't they switched? I'm saying when Kiki transferred from Echo to Victor, perhaps a little bit of Composite Echo slipped in as well.

Ore Victor pulled a "Dwight Schrute". ;)

Very interesting episode.
I have to say that I also liked Victor "as Kiki".

I also liked the parallel between the dolls that Serial Killer Terry had and the actives that the Dollhouse is.
How close is it to slavery?

The other interesting thing about this episode was the fact that Ballard was willing to kill on Adele's say so.

(Yes it was justice but who appointed Adele and Ballard Judge, Jury, and Executioner?)

nyny523

10-10-2009, 05:28 PM

This was a good episode - I am enjoying this show!

jlb

10-10-2009, 08:14 PM

Can't believe I get to mention it before someone else.....

Saul Tigh!!!!!!!

How many more BSG folks can Joss get on???? Lovin it. And the Summernator coming in three weeks......

I am enjoying seeing the bits of storyline that are creeping towards Epitaph One.....

I just hope it doesn't get cancelled before Joss gets to tell what he wants story-wise......

aforkosh

10-11-2009, 01:29 AM

Some features of this episode looked like the episode had been intended as the first episode of the new season. In particular, this looked like Ballard's first assignment for the Dollhouse. He needed to introduce himself and then get briefed about his duties. On the other hand, there were also references to Doctor Saunders having left, and, of course, Victor's scars were healed.

All in all, it looked to be a bit of a patch job.

spikedavis

10-11-2009, 01:32 AM

cheesesteak

10-11-2009, 07:21 AM

Rob Helmerichs

10-11-2009, 07:23 AM

This was shot and intended to be episode 2, but Fox in their infinite wisdom can't help but interfere with Whedon's work.
Source?

ct1

10-11-2009, 08:53 AM

I think this is where I bail on this show. I just can't buy into the fact that a place like the Dollhouse would exist. Most of the time the clients would be better served - and spend a lot less money - simply by hiring a high class hooker.

Totally different experience if the hooker knows she's a hooker.

(I agree the Dollhouse could never exist. Nor could FTL travel, but I still watch Star Trek. I think my ability to suspend disbelief is part of the reason I enjoy so many movies/tv shows.)

cheesesteak

10-11-2009, 10:04 AM

Totally different experience if the hooker knows she's a hooker.

(I agree the Dollhouse could never exist. Nor could FTL travel, but I still watch Star Trek. I think my ability to suspend disbelief is part of the reason I enjoy so many movies/tv shows.)
This is where I knew I'd had enough:

1) Echo gets implanted with Kiki. Kiki jumps out of the chair exuding Kikiness. In a strange room with strange people. No "Who the hell are you people and what am I doing here?" Just Kiki being Kiki.

2) Last week's episode with the newborn. The man's alone with a newborn baby right after the mother died in childbirth. No mother, mother-in-law, no sisters, no aunts, no neighbors, no cousins, no nobody helping him raise the child and get over the wife's death. Just him and implanted Echo. What if one of his relatives or friends calls to check up on him and Echo as the dead wife answers the phone or answers the door?

Dollhouse should have been a miniseries. Week after week of a silly Echo subplot with a small payoff at the end has worn my patience out.

LoadStar

10-11-2009, 10:41 AM

1) Echo gets implanted with Kiki. Kiki jumps out of the chair exuding Kikiness. In a strange room with strange people. No "Who the hell are you people and what am I doing here?" Just Kiki being Kiki.

If this is the first time you've noticed that, you haven't been watching any episodes thus far. Every single time an active is programmed with a personality, they always do that. Every week, without fail. Best as can be gathered, the personalities are pre-programmed to accept the handler, the programming room and the 'treatments' as completely normal.

I'm not criticizing your decision to stop watching, that's fine... I just wonder why you suddenly noticed that this week, when it's always been like that throughout the entire series.

Robin

10-11-2009, 11:00 AM

1) Echo gets implanted with Kiki. Kiki jumps out of the chair exuding Kikiness. In a strange room with strange people. No "Who the hell are you people and what am I doing here?" Just Kiki being Kiki.

As Loadstar said, it's got to be part of the persona, just like agreeing to a treatment.

2) Last week's episode with the newborn. The man's alone with a newborn baby right after the mother died in childbirth. No mother, mother-in-law, no sisters, no aunts, no neighbors, no cousins, no nobody helping him raise the child and get over the wife's death. Just him and implanted Echo. What if one of his relatives or friends calls to check up on him and Echo as the dead wife answers the phone or answers the door?

I thought they were months out from the death of the mother? I can see him introducing her as a wet nurse, but the part where she thinks she's the kid's mother is a problem.

Fortunately it's a TV show and I can overlook that. :D I'm not saying you have to--there are plenty of things that ruin shows for me which other people can overlook--I'm just happy I can. :)

lambertman

10-11-2009, 12:53 PM

This was shot and intended to be episode 2, but Fox in their infinite wisdom can't help but interfere with Whedon's work.

I think it made linear sense for this to follow the previous 2 boring episodes (as it was a more severe glitch for Echo), so the problem IMO was that the previous surrogate-mom boring episode existed at all.

Oldandslow

10-11-2009, 04:05 PM

Dollhouse season premire:

18-49 Rating/Share Viewers (Millions)

1.0/3 2.56

I can see the shark jumping from where I'm standing. Really bad writing. I'm out of here.

LoadStar

10-11-2009, 04:27 PM

Dollhouse season premire:

18-49 Rating/Share Viewers (Millions)

1.0/3 2.56

I can see the shark jumping from where I'm standing. Really bad writing. I'm out of here.

Thanks for smeeking AND threadcrapping in one post.

spikedavis

10-11-2009, 05:37 PM

Dollhouse season premire:

18-49 Rating/Share Viewers (Millions)

1.0/3 2.56

I can see the shark jumping from where I'm standing. Really bad writing. I'm out of here.

see you next week!

alpacaboy

10-11-2009, 10:55 PM

I liked the: IN THREE WEEKS,

Summer Glau joins the cast of Dollhouse. I like how she turns slowly with a gentle wind blowing through her hair.

busyba

10-12-2009, 02:10 AM

I'll beat Alfer

...with a croquet mallet.[/WishfulThinking]

MrGreg

10-12-2009, 02:34 AM

I wish they hadn't gotten such good actors for the other actives (specifically Victor and Sierra) because it constantly reminds me how bad Dushku is.

atrac

10-12-2009, 02:37 AM

As they were reading off the SoCal cities that the girls were kidnapped from, I quickly thought "I'll be amazed if they mention 'Alhambra.'" Sure enough, the last city they said was "Alhambra."

I've lived here for almost 15 years and one thing I've learned is that hardly anyone in SoCal has ever heard of Alhambra -- I've grown accustomed to saying "I live in Alhambra -- just south of Pasadena" when ever someone asks where I stay.

So needless to say, I had to chuckle when they said it. ;)

Alfer

10-12-2009, 09:14 AM

Originally Posted by LoadStar View Post
I'll beat Alfer

...with a croquet mallet.[/WishfulThinking]

I think I'll let you all beat yourselves with that mallet about the poor ratings..Lonestar seems to have taken the baton on that one... :p:)

bruinfan

10-12-2009, 07:43 PM

Unbeliever

10-12-2009, 10:08 PM

I've lived here for almost 15 years and one thing I've learned is that hardly anyone in SoCal has ever heard of Alhambra -- I've grown accustomed to saying "I live in Alhambra -- just south of Pasadena" when ever someone asks where I stay.

Except you have to get through South Pasadena and San Marino first. *grin*

Alhambra and Monterey Park are my cheap Chinese food haunts. 888 and Ocean Star for Dim Sum. Sam Woo BBQ, etc... Tons of good places.

I fly out of El Monte Airport, haven't been to West Covina.

--Carlos V.

Robin

10-13-2009, 07:07 PM

Glowing review in Paste (http://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2009/10/dollhouse-review-belle-chose-episode-23.html)

MickeS

10-14-2009, 01:41 AM

Excellent episode. Yes, it requires a LOT of suspension of disbelief to even accept that this Dollhouse would exist, considering every mission with Echo always seems to turn into a disaster... but this episode was good enough to almost make me overlook that. :)

The guy playing Victor is a great actor.

5 BSG alumni so far, right? Just waiting for Katie Sackhoff to show up as an active. :)

busyba

10-14-2009, 02:05 AM

5 BSG alumni so far, right? Just waiting for Katie Sackhoff to show up as an active. :)

And when Echo asks, "who are you?" she'll reply, "not to be overly dramatic, but I'm the original Echo. Ta-dah!" :)

Rob Helmerichs

10-14-2009, 07:32 AM

And when Echo asks, "who are you?" she'll reply, "not to be overly dramatic, but I'm the original Echo. Ta-dah!" :)
The original Echo was a boy, duh! :D

photoshopgrl

10-14-2009, 06:15 PM

I'm sorry to say this episode was horrible. What are they thinking? Ugh. I'm so frustrated because I want this show to be amazing and it COULD be but they are just going through the motions it seems.

On a positive note, best line EVER on this show since it started.

Boyd: 'Topher has ethical problems. Topher."

I laughed really hard on that one.

atrac

10-15-2009, 01:44 AM

you don't know any chinese people then...

I know a lot of Chinese people; just the new non-Chinese (or Hispanic) are the ones who need enlightening on what Alhambra is. ;)

Except you have to get through South Pasadena and San Marino first. *grin*

Alhambra and Monterey Park are my cheap Chinese food haunts. 888 and Ocean Star for Dim Sum. Sam Woo BBQ, etc... Tons of good places.

I used to actually say "south of South Pasadena" but people thought I was stuttering. :P

Sam Woo's Char Siu Fan is a staple dinner of mine. :)

Craigbob

10-15-2009, 10:40 AM

Except you have to get through South Pasadena and San Marino first. *grin*

Alhambra and Monterey Park are my cheap Chinese food haunts. 888 and Ocean Star for Dim Sum. Sam Woo BBQ, etc... Tons of good places.

I fly out of El Monte Airport, haven't been to West Covina.

--Carlos V.

I love Sam Woo BBQ. There is one out near Rowland Heights off the 60 that i go to. But I think they had to change their name.

IDSmoker

10-22-2009, 03:27 PM

This is where I knew I'd had enough:

2) Last week's episode with the newborn. The man's alone with a newborn baby right after the mother died in childbirth. No mother, mother-in-law, no sisters, no aunts, no neighbors, no cousins, no nobody helping him raise the child and get over the wife's death. Just him and implanted Echo. What if one of his relatives or friends calls to check up on him and Echo as the dead wife answers the phone or answers the door?
I'm sure there are a lot of people in this world who have no family and also live in a neighborhood where folks respect each other's desire for privacy.

Or am I the only one?

Anubys

10-22-2009, 06:54 PM

I'm sure there are a lot of people in this world who have no family and also live in a neighborhood where folks respect each other's desire for privacy.

Or am I the only one?

no...you and at least Theodore Kaczynski :D

just kidding...I think there are many people who live far away from their family (move out west after growing up on the East coast, for example)...I didn't see anything wrong with his isolation...

Robin

10-22-2009, 10:11 PM

I'm sure there are a lot of people in this world who have no family and also live in a neighborhood where folks respect each other's desire for privacy.

Or am I the only one?

Really? If you had an infant and your wife died there's NO ONE who would come by to check in or bring a meal? That's really sad. :(

Craigbob

10-23-2009, 09:13 AM

Really? If you had an infant and your wife died there's NO ONE who would come by to check in or bring a meal? That's really sad. :(

When I lived in Austin (midway between my 2 families) if my wife had died there may be someone there for a couple of days but that is about it. In So. Cal where I'm back to living I barely know any of my neighbors. None of them would stop by with a meal.

Plus his grief probably added another layer of isolation to that.

Robin

10-23-2009, 01:10 PM

When I lived in Austin (midway between my 2 families) if my wife had died there may be someone there for a couple of days but that is about it. In So. Cal where I'm back to living I barely know any of my neighbors. None of them would stop by with a meal.

Do you have kids? I find that adds a huge layer to your social network. If something happened to me I'm pretty sure the parents of our kids friends, if no one else, would ensure my husband didn't have to cook for a year.

BobB

10-23-2009, 01:19 PM

Do you have kids? I find that adds a huge layer to your social network. If something happened to me I'm pretty sure the parents of our kids friends, if no one else, would ensure my husband didn't have to cook for a year.

But getting back to the show - that social layer would not have had a chance to develop when the wife died in childbirth. Besides, as they had one of the characters state in passing, he hired a Doll to "be" the child's mother for the first few months because that's supposedly the most critical time in a child's development. Even extended social circles these days don't generally include a wetnurse.

Craigbob

10-23-2009, 05:25 PM

Do you have kids? I find that adds a huge layer to your social network. If something happened to me I'm pretty sure the parents of our kids friends, if no one else, would ensure my husband didn't have to cook for a year.

Yes I have kids, from my 1st marriage. When they were infants, we did not have a large social network. It wasn't until later that a larger social network came into play.

There are a lot of people that are introverts and do not have large social networks either. If the father was an introvert, with an infant, whose wife died in childbirth or shortly thereafter, I can easily see this happening.