Cable Card Issue or Tivo Issue?

[Resist]

Had an interesting thing happen with my Series 3 recording the 11pm news tonight. The HiDef channel I was recording was black, nothing was being shown to record as if the cable card lost the signal. The HD channels above and below were fine though. I checked the other cable card and it showed the station. So at that point I thought it was a cable card issue and was ready to call my cable company but it didn't make sense that only one station signal was lost. So it had me wondering if this is a Tivo issue or not.

This same thing has happened a few times in the past and only when recording the 11pm news in HiDef. I can't remember if the other tuner was recording when this happened and or if both tuners were recording in HiDef.

Has this happened to anyone else?

[dlfl]

First, please post whether you are using a Tuning Adapter.

Yes, others have reported similar experiences, including me -- see this thread (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=430292).

You should look at the info in the DVR Diagnostics Screens to get further clues. In my case the problem is absence of program lock but others having the same experience report other irregularities in the diagnostic screen into.
In my case the problem almost always can be worked around by simply a Channel-up/Channel-down sequence on the remote. Apparently some glitch in the signaling between the TiVo and the cable co. occurs when I try to tune the channel, and trying again usually fixes it.

This may be on of those things that is a "tough case", i.e., cannot be fixed with the combined resources of TiVo and your cable co . -- See this post (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7457144#post7457144)for related discussion.

[Resist]

Not sure what you mean by a Tuning Adapter, so I guess I don't have one. Yes I have noticed that sometimes if I change the channel up or down, it corrects itself. But when doing season passes, I can't be there to do this so I would end up recording a blank show.

[Teeps]

Not sure what you mean by a Tuning Adapter, so I guess I don't have one. Yes I have noticed that sometimes if I change the channel up or down, it corrects itself. But when doing season passes, I can't be there to do this so I would end up recording a blank show.


I had a similar problem, as described in your original post. I thought for sure it was a Cable Card problem.
Long story short: it was the feeder cable. After running a dedicated, quad shielded RG6 coax from the first splitter (approx 50ft.) to TiVo, viola! Problem solved.

[Resist]

Long story short: it was the feeder cable. After running a dedicated, quad shielded RG6 coax from the first splitter (approx 50ft.) to TiVo, viola! Problem solved.So are you saying the cable out of the wall to your Tivo was the problem? Is so, I don't understand how that would cause it to happen only once in a while, as in my case. Or how changing the channel up and down would fix it.

[Meatball]

You need a Tuning Adapter. Basically, many cable companies are going to something called "Switched Digital Video" or SDV for short. Using SDV they no longer send every channel down the wire to your house, the SDV channels are sent 'on demand' when your cable box tunes to them. This let's the cable company cram more channels on the wire.

Because of this new SDV setup, when a Tivo changes it's tuner to record, it doesn't kick a signal back to the cable company telling them to start sending that channel stream, so any channels that are set up as SDV will not record correctly on the Tivo.

When you manually change the channels, that's enough to get cable to start sending the channel, that's why it works.

Depending on your cable company, they should offer a "Tuning Adapter" that will fix this problem with Tivo's. It's a device that sits between the Tivo and the cable line. If they do offer it, most of them offer it for free (I have Time Warner and they offer them for free, you just need to call in and request it.)

Call your cable company and hope for the best :)

[JimParks]

I had a simular problem a while back. The cable company had reauthorize both cards just as they did during the installation.

[dlfl]

Not sure what you mean by a Tuning Adapter, so I guess I don't have one. Yes I have noticed that sometimes if I change the channel up or down, it corrects itself. But when doing season passes, I can't be there to do this so I would end up recording a blank show.
Nope, if you had a TA you would know it. It's a sizeable box. The TA will be needed to receive all channels if you system starts using SDV. The cable co has to furnish it then, and AFAIK it is always free.

Assuming some problem is showing on your DVR Diagnostic info when this happens, as it does for me and other people having similar problems, it seems that the TiVo software could detect the problem (after all it's displaying it!) and do a retry on the tuning -- but it doesn't. If it did everything it should, it would have to cost a lot more.

[Resist]

Tonight my Tivo once again didn't record the 11PM news on the same HiDef Channel. I checked the To Do list and it said it wasn't recorded because there was no signal. I looked at the Cable Card channel test screen and sure enough Cable Card #1 for only that HiDef channel was blank, every other channel seemed to work and Cable Card #2 was fine on all channels. I had to up/down the channels in that Cable Card diagnostic screen before Cable Card #1 finally received a signal on the missing channel.

Okay so, according what you all are saying I need to see if my local Charter Cable will provide me with a Tuning Adapter then? Or maybe I should ask Charter if my area is using SDV, because if they are not then I shouldn't need a Tuning Adapter, correct?

Funny that my Tivo has pretty much worked fine for a few years without this issue happening, until just recently.

[dlfl]

You don't need a tuning adapter unless your cable system is using SDV. I'm pretty sure you would never be able to receive any SDV channel without a TA. Thus the fact you sometimes get this channel seems to rule out the need for a TA being the explanation of your problems.

Just to confirm, you should just ask your cable provider if they use SDV and look on their web site to see if it says anything about SDV and Tuning Adapters. If they do use SDV, request a TA and there should be no charge for the box or for installing it. They should have done this automatically along with your CABLECard installation. Also ask them which channels are SDV channels, but don't expect a good answer -- I don't think this is a normal question for CSR's.

See the SDV FAQ sticky thread (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=357703)to get an idea of what SDV is all about.

[cptlapcat]

Last Friday Charter called ME and said they were expediting the free tuning adapter installations in my area (Pasadena, Ca). They came out that day and installed the TA. I think you can contact Tivo and they probably know the answer to your problem.

By the way, yesterday I was watching a recorded program when half way through the program it stopped and a box said I needed to test the tuning adapter. I started the test, checked cable cards 1 & 2 and then when I went to check the Tivo box it froze and I couldn't get out of the test.

I contacted a Tivo Help Tech and he had me unplug the Tivo power supply. He said that the TA is in beta and that it was probably an update. He advised me to ignore the pop-up in the future.

[Meatball]

You don't need a tuning adapter unless your cable system is using SDV. I'm pretty sure you would never be able to receive any SDV channel without a TA. Thus the fact you sometimes get this channel seems to rule out the need for a TA being the explanation of your problems.

Ah, I'm not sure if that's true. Before I got my TA, I was able to bring up SDV channels with my S3 by actually going to that channel (using the Tivo remote/Tivo tuner) and it'd come up fine. Sometimes I had to go channel up/channel down, but it come in. The only time I was having problems is if the Tivo tried to switch to a channel to record on it's own. Once I got the TA I haven't had a problem since.

[Resist]

So I called Charter Cable today and talk about a worthless 30 minute phone call. Although the rep said he had the same issue when he had a Tivo and ended up purchasing a Tuning Adapter and went with Charter's DVR. Ultimately he said my area is SDV, apparently this happened sometime after Charter installed my Cable Cards. He couldn't tell me if Charter would provide me with a Tuning Adapter or not and suggested I call back on Monday. I don't have much confidence in anything he said.

I will have to visit my local Charter office and see what they say. But it is not surprising to me that Charter would not let its customers know they went to SDV and needed Tuning Adapters.

[dlfl]

Ah, I'm not sure if that's true. Before I got my TA, I was able to bring up SDV channels with my S3 by actually going to that channel (using the Tivo remote/Tivo tuner) and it'd come up fine. Sometimes I had to go channel up/channel down, but it come in. The only time I was having problems is if the Tivo tried to switch to a channel to record on it's own. Once I got the TA I haven't had a problem since.
Based on my understanding of how SDV works, the TiVo, via the TA, requests from the cable system the actual frequency it is currently using for the desired channel, which can vary each time you tune, since there are many more channels than available frequencies.

I suppose you could luck out and tune the right frequency sometimes without the TA (?). In that case the OP's problem behavior is consistent with needing a TA. The bottom line is find out if SDV is being used and that determines whether you need a TA.

[dlfl]

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6982757#post6982757

[Resist]

What is strange is that only this one HiDef channel has the issue.

What is really starting to piss me off is, if I do need a tuning adapter then this is yet another box that needs to be plugged in for power. I am already running to many devices via a power strip out of one outlet, it isn't even funny.

[Meatball]

What is strange is that only this one HiDef channel has the issue.

What is really starting to piss me off is, if I do need a tuning adapter then this is yet another box that needs to be plugged in for power. I am already running to many devices via a power strip out of one outlet, it isn't even funny.

Somewhat unrelated, if you are running most of your electronic stuff off a power strip, you may want to look into investing into some sort of small battery backup/UPS. Most power strips suck (if it has a light on the switch and that's flickering or flashing, it's pretty much already dead) and won't protect your stuff from much.

Sucks to lose a thousand dollars worth of electronics because a $10 power strip failed. You can pick up a decent battery backup for under $75 online or in a store.

[dlfl]

Good UPS = APC BE350G, Under $50. Enough for TiVo and maybe the TA too, as long as it uses less than 80 watts. And it provides surge protection capacity for a lot more, including for example a TV.

[Resist]

if you are running most of your electronic stuff off a power strip, you may want to look into investing into some sort of small battery backup/UPS.I use a Tripp-Lite UPS backup, sorry I said power strip. A UPS uses even more electricity and I have 3 of them in my house for various devices.

So I called Charter Cable again today and this time the agent said my area is not SDV. I wish Charter would get their story straight!

[Resist]

Well early this morning we lost most of our channels on both cable cards. I called Charter and they could not tell for sure if a scheduled outage was in progress, so they schedule a tech to come to my house for later in the day. Then hours prior to the scheduled service we got all the channels back, so I think it was a scheduled outage and service rep was just out of the loop. So I called to cancel the service and asked once more if my area is using SDV and again the rep was uniformed but finally found something about it and said my area does not yet use it.

So if we don't have SDV and don't need a Tuning Adapter just yet, then what caused the issue with my Tivo recording blank channels days ago?

[Resist]

So if Charter is not doing SDV in my area then why am I still having issues with this one HiDef channel? It happened yet again tonight! And it happened several other times since my last post on this topic.

This is getting ridiculous considering it never happened prior to this year and ruining my trust in Tivo to record shows on this channel.

[bkdtv]

What does the DVR Diagnostics screen report as your signal level for this channel? If you've got a borderline signal, the channel may not tune periodically.

[Resist]

The channel signal is good. This issue didn't start up until this year.

[Resist]

Well it happened again tonight and discovered my news station was blank! The DVR diagnostics showed the effected cable card, had a signal strength of 95 for that channel. I am pretty sure the issue happens on both cable cards, but but tonight it only effected cable card number 2. This only seems to happen on this one HiDef channel for some reason. It is a local station and has both standard and a HiDef channel. Changing the channel up and down a few stations seemed to bring the channel back in.

Again this is so strange because as I said before, this issue never happened until this year. And Charter does not have SDV in my area yet. I am stumped as to why this is happening.

[Teeps]

So are you saying the cable out of the wall to your Tivo was the problem? Is so, I don't understand how that would cause it to happen only once in a while, as in my case. Or how changing the channel up and down would fix it.

The Time Warner installer told me that there was nothing he could do except try a clean run of RG6 cable, from the first splitter.
Which he did; and it worked, so yes I am saying the new run of cable fixed my problem. I was having a problem with SpeedTv 266 on the list.