Do S3's still need 2 M cards?

[hummingbird_206]

A couple of years ago when I first got my S3 I had to put 2 M cards in it. Has TiVo 'fixed' this for S3's yet so they only need 1 M card like the HD's? I remember reading that this was a planned change for the S3, but I haven't really followed the news on it since my S3 has been working like a champ and I saw no need to change anything. Now I'm getting a second S3 and would love to only have to use 1 M card in each box rather than having to pay Comcast for 2 more cards.

[nhaigh]

I beleive the S3 still requires two M cards and that this will always be the case. The THD does not have this issue and will work with one M card if you can bear to have one in your AV setup. I still use S3's with two cards over the THD simply because they look so much better.

[shrike4242]

Yes, it does. It treats an M-card as an S-card and only uses one tuner.

Tivo HD and HD XL use only one M-card or two S-cards.

[caddyroger]

The s3 will always need 2 cards. They don't have the hardware to use 1 card. The TiVo HD and TiVo HD-XL is the only TiVo where You can use 1 m-card.

[netringer]

An S3 needs two cards IF you want dual tuning.

Either type.

[Resist]

Has TiVo 'fixed' this for S3's yet so they only need 1 M card like the HD's? I remember reading that this was a planned change for the S3This is not possible with the Series 3 as it is a hardware limitation on the device. The planned change by Tivo was to release the TivoHD (still considered the Series 3 line) version and abandon the Series 3 model.

[hummingbird_206]

Thanks for the responses. I was really hoping I wouldn't have to pay Comcast for 2 more cards, but looks like I will...oh well, worth it to have S3's.

[orangeboy]

This is not possible with the Series 3 as it is a hardware limitation on the device. The planned change by Tivo was to release the TivoHD (still considered the Series 3 line) version and abandon the Series 3 model.

Not exactly true: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6598668#post6598668

[hummingbird_206]

Not exactly true: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6598668#post6598668

Thank you! I knew I'd read somewhere, sometime, that the S3's were capable of using 1 M card but that TiVo hadn't implemented it. Sometimes the search function on this forum doesn't work very well....for me at least.

Guess TiVo still doesn't consider it a priority to implement....bummer.

[orangeboy]

Thank you! I knew I'd read somewhere, sometime, that the S3's were capable of using 1 M card but that TiVo hadn't implemented it. Sometimes the search function on this forum doesn't work very well....for me at least.

Guess TiVo still doesn't consider it a priority to implement....bummer.

Yeah, it's a self esteem killer being a part of the nonsignificant portion of Tivo's subscribers. I still love my Series 3 though! :D

[Bierboy]

To be absolutely correct -- the original S3 requires 2 cards to utilize both tuners, and they can be two S-cards, two M-cards, or one of each.

[drey]

Why do we have 10 responses to the post that has been covered in FAQ sticky on top? And, suprisingly, all 10 reponses say exactly same thing.

[orangeboy]

Why do we have 10 responses to the post that has been covered in FAQ sticky on top? And, suprisingly, all 10 reponses say exactly same thing.

The problem with stickys is that sometimes the information is out of date. Try following the link to the "Vonage Question" thread found in this sticky dated 2003: Tivo Help Center sticky (http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=150060)

[netringer]

Why do we have 10 responses to the post that has been covered in FAQ sticky on top? And, suprisingly, all 10 reponses say exactly same thing.

Because the question is "S3 needs 2 M-cards?" and there is not a Yes or No answer to that.

Yes. You'll want 2 cards. Even though 1 will work.
Not necessarily M-cards,

So..2..what you probably want.
M...or not.

Clar?

Or just answer "Yes"

Techies, like laywers, like to answer precisely.

Example: At a computer user group many mumbly years ago I said something like "If you select "format," it will happliy erase all of your valuable data."
My buddy the lawyer, corrected, "It will erase your data if it's valuable or not."

[Resist]

Not exactly true: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6598668#post6598668I have been schooled. For some reason I had thought it was a hardware issue, but if it is just a software thing then it seems like we should have already had this capability by now. What, does Tivo only have one software geek working for them?

[hummingbird_206]

Why do we have 10 responses to the post that has been covered in FAQ sticky on top? And, suprisingly, all 10 reponses say exactly same thing.

Because "Most" folks on this forum like to be helpful. Guess I won't count you amongst them for my question.:)

The problem with stickys is that sometimes the information is out of date. Try following the link to the "Vonage Question" thread found in this sticky dated 2003: Tivo Help Center sticky (http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=150060)

Exactly. I didn't know if the info was up to date, so I asked the question. And I was really hoping it wasn't so that I wouldn't have to pay Comcast for 2more cards, whether M or S doesn't really matter, it costs the same for either. I just said 2 Ms because that's all Comcast in my area carries any more.

[mattack]

What I've wondered is if someone who knew enough about CableCards and was willing to possibly break their Tivo had ever contemplated some sort of "Y cable" to hook one M card into both CableCard slots at the same time. No, I don't mean literally just a Y cable.. it would have to have 'smarts' in it.

Presumbly this isn't possible (due to encryption in the card), but the idea would be to simulate an 'S' card for each of the card slots..

But again, it's probably not realistically do-able, especially if it "only" saves a few bucks a month..

but does anyone know enough about the actual implementation of cablecards to say whether it's even technically feasible in the least?

[dianebrat]

I have been schooled. For some reason I had thought it was a hardware issue, but if it is just a software thing then it seems like we should have already had this capability by now. What, does Tivo only have one software geek working for them?
I think like many of us, you remember the initial discussions where thoughts were that it was a hardware limitation, and they said they might implement "at a later date" since m-cards really hadn't hit when the S3 was released.

Even after the m-cards were released into the wild, the discussions always fell into Tivo finding out it was going to be a lot harder to implement then they had hoped, and the TivoHD was able to take advantage of newer hardware to allow them to easily have m-card capabilities. Even back then it was always thought they would try to overcome the hardware limitation via software.

But as Pony's post says, it really wasn't a feasible project, and while it might slip in some day, it's not a priority project at this time.

Diane

[drey]

Because "Most" folks on this forum like to be helpful. Guess I won't count you amongst them for my question.:)



There is a difference between being helpful and beating a dead horse. From the sticky in this forum. And, by the way, if you don't know if information is up to date or not, ask in that thread.

CableCARD installation FAQ (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=363797)

2. Do I need one CableCARD or two?

Each of the Series 3 boxes supports recording two digital cable channels at once.
The newer Tivo HD box currently supports MCards, so you will need one MCard or two SCards for full functionality..
Currently, the software in the original Series 3 box does not support the multistream capabilities of the MCard, so you will need two CableCARDs, either SCard or MCard, to have full support.

Either Tivo will function with only one SCard, but may operate in single tuner mode.

[MeStinkBAD]

Has anyone verified this recently? While it's true that originally it may not have supported m-cards it's Possible that the first generation Series 3 was built to support m-cards since m-cards had already been avail for several years, just few people bothered to use cablecards in their TVs. I mean I'm the only one I know who uses a cablecard in his television. And it required a firmware update since the unit was released before cablecard support had been fully supported.

[lessd]

Has anyone verified this recently? While it's true that originally it may not have supported m-cards it's Possible that the first generation Series 3 was built to support m-cards since m-cards had already been avail for several years, just few people bothered to use cablecards in their TVs. I mean I'm the only one I know who uses a cablecard in his television. And it required a firmware update since the unit was released before cablecard support had been fully supported.

I have a Series 3 with an M card in slot one and it received only one channel until the cable guy put in another S card in slot 2, and i had v11d software.

[hummingbird_206]

Has anyone verified this recently? While it's true that originally it may not have supported m-cards it's Possible that the first generation Series 3 was built to support m-cards since m-cards had already been avail for several years, just few people bothered to use cablecards in their TVs. I mean I'm the only one I know who uses a cablecard in his television. And it required a firmware update since the unit was released before cablecard support had been fully supported.

Probably worth a call to TiVo just to be sure. I'll have to call them to get the ownership on my second unit changed over when it arrives, so I'll ask then.

[lew]

Probably worth a call to TiVo just to be sure. I'll have to call them to get the ownership on my second unit changed over when it arrives, so I'll ask then.

Not really. Did you read lessd post? A CSR who tells you your unit will give you dual tuner functionality with only 1 M card is giving you bad information. Wouldn't be the first time a CSR representative made a mistake looking up information.

The only reason to call is if you're going to try to get tivo to compensate you for not supporting M cards. I don't know what compensation tivo will offer. Reduce the monthly fee? Let you trade in your S3 for a TivoHD? Tell you too bad? It can't hurt to ask.

[hummingbird_206]

Not really. Did you read lessd post? A CSR who tells you your unit will give you dual tuner functionality with only 1 M card is giving you bad information. Wouldn't be the first time a CSR representative made a mistake looking up information.

The only reason to call is if you're going to try to get tivo to compensate you for not supporting M cards. I don't know what compensation tivo will offer. Reduce the monthly fee? Let you trade in your S3 for a TivoHD? Tell you too bad? It can't hurt to ask.

Yes, I did read the post you ref. And it wouldn't be the first time the cableco didn't know how to activate cable cards in TiVos correctly.

My reason for calling TiVo is to change the ownership on the second unit I'm getting. While I'm on the phone I can ask what's up with the S3 and if I can get dual tuner capability with 1 M card. I'm sure it willl depend on the CSR where the conversation goes from there. But I think it's worth asking. YMMV.:)

And trade in my S3 for an HD:eek: no way!!

[dlfl]

........The only reason to call is if you're going to try to get tivo to compensate you for not supporting M cards. I don't know what compensation tivo will offer. Reduce the monthly fee? Let you trade in your S3 for a TivoHD? Tell you too bad? It can't hurt to ask.
I have a THD and still have to use two cards because Time Warner insists they only have s-cards (as of 6 weeks ago).

Think I should call TiVo and ask them to compensate me for that? :D

I've thought about asking for an adjustment on my TWC bill but it just isn't worth the hassle for the unlikely chance of saving $2.54/mo. From what I've read the rental charges on CC's vary all over the place, even within the same parent company. I don't know if there is anything that limits what they can charge. TWC could respond by saying: "Ok we'll just bill you for one m-card, and oh BTW, that charge is the same as 2 s-cards".

[hummingbird_206]

I have a THD and still have to use two cards because Time Warner insists they only have s-cards (as of 6 weeks ago).

Think I should call TiVo and ask them to compensate me for that? :D

I've thought about asking for an adjustment on my TWC bill but it just isn't worth the hassle for the unlikely chance of saving $2.54/mo. From what I've read the rental charges on CC's vary all over the place, even within the same parent company. I don't know if there is anything that limits what they can charge. TWC could respond by saying: "Ok we'll just bill you for one m-card, and oh BTW, that charge is the same as 2 s-cards".

Ugh, that's really a bummer!

I'm actually thinking about just going OTA with my second S3 since the cost of 2 more cable cards and a second digital outlet are probably going to run me about $10 more a month from Comcast. I plan to give it a try before I go the CC route. I never wanted to try it on the current S3 box that I have since everything is working and I'm afraid to disturb anything!

[ilikeyoureyes]

My favorite part about this is I got my s3 before M cards were around, but the papers that came with the tivo said it would work with M cards when they came out. I'm not sure if that was false advertising, flat out lying, or whatever. But why should tivo care, I'm the one that had to pay for an extra cablecard each month, not them.

[sinanju]

But why should tivo care, I'm the one that had to pay for an extra cablecard each month, not them.

Certainly not directly. That said, I was an early adopter, paid a premium and was happy to do so. However, the S vs M card situation on the S3 will certainly color my decision to do so again with future products. It will not be a deciding factor, but it will certainly contribute.

TTG happened. M-Card didn't. Both were a gamble.

[Jonathan_S]

My favorite part about this is I got my s3 before M cards were around, but the papers that came with the tivo said it would work with M cards when they came out. I'm not sure if that was false advertising, flat out lying, or whatever. At the time TiVo expected them to work, because they'd implemented support based on the M card spec paper. (Unfortunately, since the S3 design pre-dated the existence of actual M cards to test with, it turned out that what the S3 did wasn't quite what the eventual M cards needed.)

That's always a danger when you attempt to build against a paper spec without real world hardware to test with.