Expanded TiVo HD vs Tivo HD XL

[Alphi]

Okay, I pulled the trigger and ordered my TiVo HD today (with the intention of expanding it myself by replacing the internal drive with a 1TB one when it gets full).


But it made me wonder: when I upgrade my TiVo HD to have a 1TB drive instead, and assuming I buy a replacement remote (the glo one that comes with the XL), will I effectively have a TiVo HD XL?

What's different between an expanded (internally) HD + glo remote and a stock HD XL?

[bkdtv]

What's different between an expanded (internally) HD + glo remote and a stock HD XL?Aside from the warranty, you'll lose the "plug and play" external drive support. When you upgrade the internal drive on a TiVo, "plug and play" external storage no longer works.

[newskilz]

Technically, at that point, more than likely nothing different except the THX certification. And yes, the "plug and play" external drive will no longer work, but you've already opened the case, so fixing the drive to accept an external drive is not a big deal (from what I've been reading on this forum and other places). I however do not know those details about using an external drive on "hacked hard drive", I just know it's being done.

[richsadams]

You can find out everything you need to know (and then some) about upgrading the TiVo HD's internal drive by reading bkdtv's outstanding Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160) sticky thread:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160

If you have any more questions, feel free to post there for answers.

Happy upgrading!

[Alphi]

Yes, I have every intention of taking advantage of all the info in that article when it comes time to upgrade... And I suspect that with only 20 hours of HD content fitting on the thing, that will happen sooner rather than later.

You can find out everything you need to know (and then some) about upgrading the TiVo HD's internal drive by reading bkdtv's outstanding Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160) sticky thread:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160

If you have any more questions, feel free to post there for answers.

Happy upgrading!

[pilotbob]

IF the price is the same or close to the same, I would just get the XL. Granted, opening and upgrading the hard drive is pretty simple. But, you are loosing warranty (perhaps, some claim they put the orig hd back in and have gotten replacement units)

BOb

[lew]

Most posters seem to want a Harmony remote. The OP is planning on purchasing a tivo Glo remote $40-$50. It'll cost $250 if the OP wants to purchase a drive ready to drop in from DVRUpgrade. It'll probably cost almost $125-$150 if the OP wants to purchase an AV drive and also needs to purchase a USB-SATA adapter. The Tivo HDXL comes with a HDMI cable Probably at least a $10 value. You can buy a cable from monoprice but shipping will up the price to close to $10.

The OP needs to price it out but having a valid warranty might be worth the extra money.

[vurbano]

IMO the best remote, and they are available still brand new for 15 dollars, is the old Directv HDtivo HR10-250 remote. I have 2 of them and use them with the TivoHD units. I love the dedicated "List" and "exit" buttons. I have a harmony remote but still like the old one.

[vurbano]

The OP needs to price it out but having a valid warranty might be worth the extra money.

It really isnt worth it considering a refurb can be had for 199 from Tivo and those have a warranty too. Infact if I had thought about it more I might have started with a couple of refurbs. The OP can outfit a refurb with a 1 TB drive and be at 300 dollars with what is essentially a TivoHD XL.

[Alphi]

IF the price is the same or close to the same, I would just get the XL. Granted, opening and upgrading the hard drive is pretty simple. But, you are loosing warranty (perhaps, some claim they put the orig hd back in and have gotten replacement units)

BOb

That's the thing - we're talking about spending $300 more to get the XL over the HD, or spending $100 in hardware later to upgrade the HD to the same capacity of the XL.

Yes, I do understand that I'd be voiding my warrantee (and that's assuming that what we've heard about just putting the original drive back in and sending it in anyway isn't true).

But at the same time, I understand that more often than not, when a TiVo fails, it's the hard drive failing. And if I upgrade to a larger drive, and save the original, should the new hard drive fail, I could easily either put the original back in and be up and running again, or use it as the source for another new drive.

Either way, the original drive would serve as my backup - something I would not have if I went with an XL or if I expanded my HD with an external expander.

[richsadams]

That's the thing - we're talking about spending $300 more to get the XL over the HD, or spending $100 in hardware later to upgrade the HD to the same capacity of the XL.

Yes, I do understand that I'd be voiding my warrantee (and that's assuming that what we've heard about just putting the original drive back in and sending it in anyway isn't true).

But at the same time, I understand that more often than not, when a TiVo fails, it's the hard drive failing. And if I upgrade to a larger drive, and save the original, should the new hard drive fail, I could easily either put the original back in and be up and running again, or use it as the source for another new drive.

Either way, the original drive would serve as my backup - something I would not have if I went with an XL or if I expanded my HD with an external expander.Your thinking is logical on all counts. IIRC there has been one posted instance of TiVo denying a claim due to an upgrade when the unit was returned with the original hard drive intact (and the details aren't clear as to why that happened). YMMV of course, but historically many, many folks have successfully done what you're contemplating without any problems.

[lew]

It really isnt worth it considering a refurb can be had for 199 from Tivo and those have a warranty too. Infact if I had thought about it more I might have started with a couple of refurbs. The OP can outfit a refurb with a 1 TB drive and be at 300 dollars with what is essentially a TivoHD XL.

AFAIK you can't get a MSD if you purchase a refub unit from tivo.
That's the thing - we're talking about spending $300 more to get the XL over the HD, or spending $100 in hardware later to upgrade the HD to the same capacity of the XL.



It costs $250 to purchase a drive designed to be "dropped in" from a forum sponsor. Not every customer has a PC available. A person who loves the Glo remote has to also include $30-$40 for the remote and another $10 for the HDMI cable. A person who is going to buy a "bare drive" will save money doing the work.

Your thinking is logical on all counts. IIRC there has been one posted instance of TiVo denying a claim due to an upgrade when the unit was returned with the original hard drive intact (and the details aren't clear as to why that happened). YMMV of course, but historically many, many folks have successfully done what you're contemplating without any problems.

The poster didn't return the unit for repair. Tivo determined the poster had upgraded the drive, presumably from the logs, and refused to issue a RMA. My memory is 2 or 3 posters had similar issues.

This is going to be a rare issue. The hard drive is the most common item to fail and customers who uprade their hard drive will generally just replace the drive themselves.

[mchief]

About 2 weeks ago I picked up a TivoHD on Ebay for $169. I figured the HDD may be going bad, but really didn't care. It's been running fine for 2 weeks. I did backup the drive as soon as the cable card was installed. I'm now looking for another 1TB drive hoping the prices will drop soon. At around $70, I'll buy another. That will effectively give me two XLs for under $600

[mchief]

And to add a little humor... I started to backup the TivoHD but could not get Winmfs to find the drive. Scratched my balded head - done this a half-dozen times without a problem. What was I doing wrong? Got the instructions out and - bingo - RUN AS ADMINISTRATOR - you idiot. All was well. Replaced top and hooked up to TV - no signal. Ok, now what. All looks good, what did I do to the drive? Then I noticed a cable lying on the floor out of sight. Cable in hooked up and everything works as advertised. JUST WAS NOT MY DAY and I was sober.

[richsadams]

...and I was sober.And therein lies the problem. ;)

[vurbano]

AFAIK you can't get a MSD if you purchase a refub unit from tivo.


It costs $250 to purchase a drive designed to be "dropped in" from a forum sponsor. Not every customer has a PC available. A person who loves the Glo remote has to also include $30-$40 for the remote and another $10 for the HDMI cable. A person who is going to buy a "bare drive" will save money doing the work.



The poster didn't return the unit for repair. Tivo determined the poster had upgraded the drive, presumably from the logs, and refused to issue a RMA. My memory is 2 or 3 posters had similar issues.

This is going to be a rare issue. The hard drive is the most common item to fail and customers who uprade their hard drive will generally just replace the drive themselves.
not every person has a PC available or a friend or family member with one? Now you are really just stretching. IMO spending 2.5 times what you need too for a HD is absurd. I did it many many years ago but I was ignorant. The MSD is something to factor in though.

[vurbano]

About 2 weeks ago I picked up a TivoHD on Ebay for $169. I figured the HDD may be going bad, but really didn't care. It's been running fine for 2 weeks. I did backup the drive as soon as the cable card was installed. I'm now looking for another 1TB drive hoping the prices will drop soon. At around $70, I'll buy another. That will effectively give me two XLs for under $600

:up::up:

[BigBearf]

One additional thought.
I have a Tivo HD that I upgraded to 1 TB Hard drive and I also have a Tivo XL. I got the XL on Amazon about a year ago for about $500 and at that time the upgraded Tivo HD cost about $400 with an additional glo remote. I really like the glo remotes as far as tactile feel and the ability to control two tivos in the same room. I use a glo to control two HR10-750s in the same room.

The other point is that the XL is upgradable to a 2 TB drive and the HD only to about 1.25 TB should you wish to upgrade in the future. I personally think the XL is a good deal if you can get it for $500 or under but to each his own.
Hope this helps.
BigBearf

[SNJpage1]

What is the difference between opening the case and replacing the internal drive with a 1 TB and just plugging in the WD external 1 TB as far as the way it operates? I know pricewise the external is twice the cost according to the prices at Newegg, $169 compared to $85.

[Jonathan_S]

What is the difference between opening the case and replacing the internal drive with a 1 TB and just plugging in the WD external 1 TB as far as the way it operates? I know pricewise the external is twice the cost according to the prices at Newegg, $169 compared to $85.In terms of how it operates not much. Well, plugging the the WD 1TB external will give you more space. (Since it's 1TB + your original internal drive). But in either case, once set up the TiVo uses the extra space automatically and transparently to the user. (You just have more recordings in your Now Playing list)


However, some people have concerns in general about the reliability of running 2 drives (doubles your chance of a drive failure taking out your recordings) and concerns about the reliability of the WD MyDVR drives in particular (the original 500 GB drives had a lot of people reporting drive failures)

[lew]

not every person has a PC available or a friend or family member with one? Now you are really just stretching. IMO spending 2.5 times what you need too for a HD is absurd. I did it many many years ago but I was ignorant. The MSD is something to factor in though.


The upgrade programs we use don't work with Macs. They probably won't work with the netbook computers many people are using. They certainly won't work with the I-Phones many people are now using for web access.:) They won't work with the laptop/notebook computers many people use unless you purchase an SATA-USB adapter. Some of those adapters won't work with some computers. I found out the hard way.

Not every friend or family member is willing to let you open up their PC.

I suspect most members of TCF have computers available. Some of us have an old PC in the basement we use for upgrades. That doesn't change the fact that a number of potential customers need to compare the cost of buying a drive from DVRUpgrade with the cost of buying a HDXL unit. I think those customers are better off buying the HDXL.

[aaronwt]

About 2 weeks ago I picked up a TivoHD on Ebay for $169. I figured the HDD may be going bad, but really didn't care. It's been running fine for 2 weeks. I did backup the drive as soon as the cable card was installed. I'm now looking for another 1TB drive hoping the prices will drop soon. At around $70, I'll buy another. That will effectively give me two XLs for under $600

The XL is THX certified. I know the original S3 models are too and they are better at handling HDMI handshaking and audio drops than the regular TiVoHD.

I've never tried the XL but if it's like the original S3 there is a difference. Although it's not necessarily worth the premium they charge for the THX certification.

[eagle63]

Just as another data point, I just bought a "factory reconditioned" TiVoHD for $199 a few weeks ago and bought a 500GB drive to upgrade it. (I actually upgraded the drive before even plugging the TiVO in)

I used the Live MFS Linux distro to do the copying and, while I'm admittedly very comfortable with Linux, this was shockingly easy. The entire upgrade process (including physically removing/re-inserting the drives) took less than an hour and worked perfectly. In hindsight I should have gotten a 1 TB drive, but I happened to find such a good deal on the 500GB drive ($40) that I figured I'd go for it. Even so, most 1 TB drives that I saw on Newegg were less than $100.

Based on my experience with the upgrade, I can't imagine paying $600 for a Tivo XL model.

[mattack]

The upgrade programs we use don't work with Macs.

Maybe the programs *you* are using, but I have done upgrades on Macs, and so have tons of other people.

(yes, the first couple of upgrades I did, were on a PC.)

[bnbhoha]

I bought a 1tb hard drive w/ tivo software on it from fleabay for $139 (western digital) I dropped it in and it works great so far. It has the date of July 2009/comes with a 3 year warranty. I could have done it my self and saved $40, but didn't want to mess with it since i have an older computer.

[fidget13a]

If you are thinking about buying a new HD or the HDXL check a local Sears store for the TIVO HD. IF you can find one still in the store you will probably be much cheaper getting it and upgrading the internal drive. Stores have been selling the HD for 149 down to 99. I got two for $119 each and then my upgrade drives cost me $65 and $70 each. So for under $200 each I have two 1TB HD TIVOs. I did run into problems because one of the drives I bought was bad and I had to RMA it but the people over at http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160 which is the Official Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ thread were very very patient and helpful. These three were especially helpful people ......... richsadams, bkdtv, and MPSAN.

[yukit]

Just as another data point, I just bought a "factory reconditioned" TiVoHD for $199 a few weeks ago and bought a 500GB drive to upgrade it.
I assume this was an offer from Tivo. This is a good option for a new Tivo user, but not for a replacement of MSD (ie. upgrading an S2 unit) since a purchase from Tivo requires a subscription purchase as well.


I used the Live MFS Linux distro to do the copying and, while I'm admittedly very comfortable with Linux, this was shockingly easy.
I think most people have switched to using WinMFS.
You may still need a bootable CD for an acoustic management feature on some drives though.


Based on my experience with the upgrade, I can't imagine paying $600 for a Tivo XL model.
I am considering Tivo XL as my upgrade option since it offers 2TB capacity.
Right now, the cost of the unit & 2TB drive does not make this a good value option.

[vurbano]

What is the difference between opening the case and replacing the internal drive with a 1 TB and just plugging in the WD external 1 TB as far as the way it operates? I know pricewise the external is twice the cost according to the prices at Newegg, $169 compared to $85.Its also another power cord and device laying around in your rack. I just want no part of external drives. More heat, more power, more cables, more mess.

[gweempose]

I bought a 1tb hard drive w/ tivo software on it from fleabay for $139 (western digital) I dropped it in and it works great so far.In my experience, there are some very reliable sellers on eBay, and their prices tend to be much more reasonable than the forum sponsors. I have purchased five 1TB drives off eBay, and they all worked flawlessly. If you're only talking $120-150 for a good quality pre-imaged drive, it just doesn't make a lot of sense to buy an XL. Obviously, the most cost effective solution is to purchase a blank drive and image it yourself, but for the person who doesn't have the ability or desire to do this, I think eBay is a great option.

[aaronwt]

I bought a 1tb hard drive w/ tivo software on it from fleabay for $139 (western digital) I dropped it in and it works great so far. It has the date of July 2009/comes with a 3 year warranty. I could have done it my self and saved $40, but didn't want to mess with it since i have an older computer.

WOW! with those prices maybe I should start selling some of my extra 1TB drives on Ebay after installing the software on them. I have around ten 1TB drives lying around that I'm not using and the drives only cost $75 to $90.

That would be a healthy profit and some quick and easy money.

[gweempose]

I have around ten 1TB drives lying around that I'm not using ...There are few things I can think of that depreciate faster than a hard drive. Unless you got them for free, why would you stock up on so many of them?

[mattack]

In my experience, there are some very reliable sellers on eBay, and their prices tend to be much more reasonable than the forum sponsors. I have purchased five 1TB drives off eBay, and they all worked flawlessly.

I'm glad there are people selling these at a better price, but I believe these other people/companies are basically pirating Tivo's software, since they have to put the Tivo software on the drive for you to be able to boot it.

(IIRC, at least one of the tivo upgrade software companies has a deal for one of the upgrade CDs that you buy, to distribute the Tivo OS.)