Tru2Way

[chicagobrownblue]

Are there any rumors out there of a Tivo model that will support a Tru2Way card in the Tivo box? Thanks.

[LifeIsABeach]

TiVo has conformed they are working on it, but there are also plenty of rumors on when it will come to fruition. Do a search for Tru2Way and you should find some threads.

[socrplyr]

No such thing as a Tru2Way card, as they will continue to to use CableCards for decryption keys. Tru2Way is mainly just a middleware software coupled with a transmitter. There really wouldn't be a reason why the current models couldn't do it if they had a transmitter to relay messages to the head end and a software update. That said there are a couple of other issues, like the fact that the current deals they have require the device to work, just like the cable company's (basically no Tivo), but I'm sure that will be gotten around. As for Tivo, they have said they are developing such a box. No features, time frame, or specs have been announced, and everything else is merely speculation.

[ZeoTiVo]

Tru2Way is mainly just a middleware software coupled with a transmitter. There really wouldn't be a reason why the current models couldn't do it if they had a transmitter to relay messages to the head end and a software update. the 'transmitter' is a DOCIS modem and the current boxes do not have them. Plus the software 'update' would be a najor change versus any simple update. The current models will never be tru2way boxes though they might end up with VOD via the broadband connection.


That said there are a couple of other issues, like the fact that the current deals they have require the device to work, just like the cable company's (basically no Tivo), but I'm sure that will be gotten around. As for Tivo, they have said they are developing such a box. No features, time frame, or specs have been announced, and everything else is merely speculation.
TiVo has indeed said they are working on a box that will have the TiVo side and then you can selcect off the TiVo menu to go to the cable side and see their VOD/PPV menu in a Java sandbox. This is the area the cbale companies will have control over and be able to download their software so you see the PPV/VOD as the cable company wnats to. This means they have to work on the box along with Cablelabs representing the cable companies (read Comcast) and that partnership will likely slow things down and make it next to impossible for TiVo to predict a date we will see the box.

[chicagobrownblue]

Thanks for the info. I'm boxaphobic and currently have an RCN external box using IR blasters - which I don't like- to get my Tivo Series 2 DT to work with digital cable. I'd hate to go with the current Tivo HD boxes to get rid of the current RCN box only to have to get another external box for Tru2Way if RCN goes to SDV or I change cable companies.

[DrewTivo]

I'd hate to go with the current Tivo HD boxes to get rid of the current RCN box only to have to get another external box for Tru2Way if RCN goes to SDV or I change cable companies.

Why couldn't you stick with the existing TivoHD? The only thing you would miss out on is VOD.

[slude]

Why couldn't you stick with the existing TivoHD? The only thing you would miss out on is VOD.

The existing TivoHD also does not do SDV (and a boxaphobe certainly wouldn't want another external box if RCN goes SDV...)

[Dan203]

The tuner adapter used to make a TiVoHD work with SDV is a very simple box that connects via USB. It's no where near as "scary" or unpredictable as a cable box connected with IR blasters.

Dan

[ZeoTiVo]

Thanks for the info. I'm boxaphobic and currently have an RCN external box using IR blasters - which I don't like- to get my Tivo Series 2 DT to work with digital cable. I'd hate to go with the current Tivo HD boxes to get rid of the current RCN box only to have to get another external box for Tru2Way if RCN goes to SDV or I change cable companies.

Well it is either way for a series 4, which could be a long wait and you have that box with IR blasters till then
or
get a TiVo HD and be extra boxless unless a channel YOU WANT is SDV in which case you go with the adapter like Dan203 describes.

If my cable company went all digital I would do TiVo HD with cable cards without hesitation currently.

[DrewTivo]

The existing TivoHD also does not do SDV (and a boxaphobe certainly wouldn't want another external box if RCN goes SDV...)

Fair point, although my understanding is that RCN is not planning to introduce SDV currently (yes, future plans may change, blah blah, but SDV is not their current approach). I'm an RCN sub and have had no issues with TivoHD and their cablecards FWIW.

[tiassa]

Fair point, although my understanding is that RCN is not planning to introduce SDV currently (yes, future plans may change, blah blah, but SDV is not their current approach). I'm an RCN sub and have had no issues with TivoHD and their cablecards FWIW.

I'll second what DrewTivo said. Unlike some cable co's RCN seems to realize that Cable Cards are something that customers want and they shouldn't put any artificial barriers to allowing their customers to use them.

[CharlesH]

The tuner adapter used to make a TiVoHD work with SDV is a very simple box that connects via USB. It's no where near as "scary" or unpredictable as a cable box connected with IR blasters.
Furthermore, the tuning adapter can be buried out of sight somewhere, since it has no user inputs, and the only outputs are a couple of status LEDs which you usually don't need to worry about once it is working.

[jcaudle]

you dont need to worry about the lights on the tuning adapter IF its working. They tend to need to reboot a lot. SDV sucks. Can't wait for Fios.

[LoadStar]

you dont need to worry about the lights on the tuning adapter IF its working. They tend to need to reboot a lot. SDV sucks. Can't wait for Fios.

I honestly cannot remember the last time I've even thought about my tuning adapter - it never reboots and never causes a problem. It's worked absolutely perfectly for me.

[orangeboy]

I honestly cannot remember the last time I've even thought about my tuning adapter - it never reboots and never causes a problem. It's worked absolutely perfectly for me.

Same here.

[chicagobrownblue]

Part of the reason I started this string is that my Tivo hard drive was on its last legs. The hard drive is now dead with Tivo stuck on "Welcome, powering up." My options are to swap out my Tivo for a refurb for $149, buy a new Series 2 for $149 or buy a new Tivo HD for $299. I already know that the Series two does not support digital cable and Tivo HD does not support VOD or SDV, so I am going to just get a cable company DVR at the end of summer.

and, btw, the RCN box produces a perfect, i.e. no squishing of faces, letters or numbers, 16:9 picture in SD on my new HDTV. I guess RCN is just down converting HD channels, but that works for me.

[bkdtv]

chicago,

You realize that you can replace your hard drive, right? A 500GB drive for a Series2 would cost $50 + $20 for a SATA-IDE adapter. I'm not sure it's worth spending $70 to upgrade a Series2, though.

I expect to see a new TiVoHD DVR early next year, although it won't necessarily support true2way.

[chicagobrownblue]

yes and I am now the proud owner of a torx T-10 and the box is open. Where do I get the operating system/software for the new drive?

[MichaelK]

officially you buy "instant cake" from THE approved vendor to sell the OS. But if you poke around the net you can probably find an image someplace else.

[chicagobrownblue]

Thanks. New hard drive is in place and seems faster.

So, I can begin the wait for VOD, SDV, Tru2Way again. I'm thinking VOD is a business issue between Tivo and the cable companies and may never be resolved. SDV is going to be a problem if they change the cable company in my building to an SDV system or if I move to an area with SDV cable.

Burned once when RCN went digital and the dual tuners in my S2 DT became little more than contributors to globally warming and required an external tuner box from the cable company -- I will wait for at least SDV support on Tivo before buying a new DVR.

[ZeoTiVo]

Burned once when RCN went digital and the dual tuners in my S2 DT became little more than contributors to globally warming and required an external tuner box from the cable company -- I will wait for at least SDV support on Tivo before buying a new DVR.

Series 3 TiVo has SDV support now - you just need to get the USB attachment from RCN that is used to send the SDV channel requests upstream to cable company

[chicagobrownblue]

Thanks for the info, but I'm not into attachments. If the box does not support it, I won't buy it.

[Dmon4u]

Since RCN came up in this discussion:

http://www.multichannel.com/article/326400-RCN_Picks_TiVo_As_Its_Primary_DVR.php

"RCN_Picks_TiVo_As_Its_Primary_DVR"

Early 2010 !

[MichaelK]

Since RCN came up in this discussion:

http://www.multichannel.com/article/326400-RCN_Picks_TiVo_As_Its_Primary_DVR.php

"RCN_Picks_TiVo_As_Its_Primary_DVR"

Early 2010 !

man that SUCKS!- laughing. My system used to be RCN ~5 years ago. They sold it off to an independant that rebuilt the system and then comcast bought that. If RCN would have just kept the system themselves and rebuilt it I'd be sitting pretty now.

Anyway- sounds like RCN is going to sell S3's of some flavor that will have that VOD from the small provider deal hooked in. You basically can have your cake and eat it too on RCN....

[jbcumming]

We have two Series 3 Tivo boxes with three year subscriptions which expire in October. Our cable provider, Time Warner Carlsbad California, has moved more and more channels to Switched Digital meaning we get less and less for the same money.

We love TIVO but it just doesn't work any more, at least not with all the channels moving to Switched Digital. There is a workaround but everyone seems to point the finger at others and time is passing. While we wait, the cost of our cable cards has jumped from $7.00 a month to $10.00, a 42% increase, while the number of channels we can receive has been cut in half.

This is what happens in an unregulated, local monopoly industry like the cable industry. TIVO was our only hope but now we are a little over a month away from decision time and it looks like it will be the end of TIVO for us. Our units will go up on e-bay and we will either take the cable company's clunky, junky box or switch to satellite delivery or U-Verse, which will cost beaucoup dollars since our apartment has a bulk delivery deal with Time Warner.

Warning to anyone thinking of buying a TIVO box. Don't do it unless and until they provide a Tru2way solution. You will just be paying for a service that you won't receive and you will ultimately feel that you have been cheated.

[lew]

I'll second what DrewTivo said. Unlike some cable co's RCN seems to realize that Cable Cards are something that customers want and they shouldn't put any artificial barriers to allowing their customers to use them.

Is there any doubt far more customers want the extra channels SDV makes possible then customers who want to use a cable card with their TV set? How many TV sets currently manufactured work with cable cards?

Tivo works with the SDV adapter so the only issue is with TV sets.

[bkdtv]

We have two Series 3 Tivo boxes with three year subscriptions which expire in October. Our cable provider, Time Warner Carlsbad California, has moved more and more channels to Switched Digital meaning we get less and less for the same money.

We love TIVO but it just doesn't work any more, at least not with all the channels moving to Switched Digital. There is a workaround but everyone seems to point the finger at others and time is passing. While we wait, the cost of our cable cards has jumped from $7.00 a month to $10.00, a 42% increase, while the number of channels we can receive has been cut in half.Tivo added support for SDV last year.

Is there a reason you haven't obtained the SDV adapter from Time Warner? This plugs into the TiVo's USB port and allows it to tune SDV channels. There's no extra cost for it beyond the CableCard.

[nrc]

TIVO was our only hope but now we are a little over a month away from decision time and it looks like it will be the end of TIVO for us. Our units will go up on e-bay and we will either take the cable company's clunky, junky box or switch to satellite delivery or U-Verse, which will cost beaucoup dollars since our apartment has a bulk delivery deal with Time Warner.

Of course that first option is exactly what your cable company would like.

Have you checked to see if your cable company is providing tuning adapters to handle switched digital? It sounds like whatever your choice you should complain to the FCC about their lack of channel access and unreasonable cable card charges.

Warning to anyone thinking of buying a TIVO box. Don't do it unless and until they provide a Tru2way solution. You will just be paying for a service that you won't receive and you will ultimately feel that you have been cheated.

You're being misled by cable company hype over Tru2Way. Tru2Way still requires a cable card for security. The only thing it gains you that you can't get today with your S3 and a tuning adapter is access to cable company two-way services like video on demand.

Since Tru2Way requires cable card we know right from the start that cable company support will be no better than it is today for basic cable card devices. Add another layer of complexity in Tru2Way, add the fact that most cable providers aren't even supporting it yet and it's clear that Tru2Way is not the nirvana it has been made out to be.

All this talk about TiVo needing Tru2Way support now is simply the result of a successful smoke screen thrown up by the cable industry to obscure their continued obstruction of competing navigation devices.

[mikeyts]

We have two Series 3 Tivo boxes with three year subscriptions which expire in October. Our cable provider, Time Warner Carlsbad California, has moved more and more channels to Switched Digital meaning we get less and less for the same money.As bkdtv points out, the Tuning Adapter is available--I was TWC San Diego's first beta installation of it. I recently moved to share a home in a neighborhood served by Cox, but my TiVo Series3 was working fine with a TA in Bay Park. Tuning Adapters are provided at no extra cost, so go pick a few up ASAP (or pay for a truck roll to have some dropped off).

I'd have thought that TWC in Carlsbad would be ex-Adelphia running on a Moto system with no SDV yet, but I guess I'm wrong.

[mikeyts]

Since Tru2Way requires cable card we know right from the start that cable company support will be no better than it is today for basic cable card devices.I disagree. The biggest reason for the cable providers poor and unenthusiastic support of Unidirectional CableCARD Products is that subscribers choosing that option close themselves off from those interactive services, which the cable providers would very much like to sell to you. The other reason is that in the beginning, the cable providers weren't using CableCARDs in their leased equipment (something for which you can blame the FCC, since they gave them a 2-year extension on a 2005 deadline to use CableCARDs in leased equipment, much to the ire of the CE industry). Since 1 July 2007, the cable providers have been forbidden to buy new equipment which does not use CableCARD for conditional access. The cable industry claimed that after two years they'd only leased some three hundred thousand CableCARDs nationwide; by July 2008, they'd deployed over 2 million CableCARDs in their own equipment, a number which has no doubt more than doubled. They have to make CableCARD work now because they have to use it (there are those who claim that the same FCC requirement mandates that they support tru2way as well).

TWC has been rolling out their Digital Navigator IPG for the past few years. They run an OCAP version of it on all of their post 7/1/07 Cisco boxes (42xxHDC, 8xxxHDC, etc) which they developed that with the help of Samsung and have already deployed Samsung tru2way devices in some areas (like here in San Diego).

The cable industry has good reason to like tru2way (aside from the fact that they created it)--it releases them from the SA (now Cisco)/Motorola equipment duopoly, which should save them probably hundreds of millions over a relatively short term. Any CE OEM can manufacture a tru2way box and cable providers can pick and choose the best deal for equipment to lease.