View Full Version : Dollhouse S01E13 -unaired - Epitaph One *spoilers*
IDSmoker
07-18-2009, 06:34 PM
Wow!!!
Maybe because I watched this right after seeing the unaired pilot, but I really liked this!
Dr. Saunders and Boyd as a couple?
The scene between DeWitt and 'broken' Topher?
Alpha apparently on the side of the 'angels' at the Compound/Safe Haven?
The idea of using an automated telemarketing system to take over a country?
Just.... wow!
JimSpence
07-18-2009, 07:42 PM
See http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=429810
Aniketos
07-18-2009, 08:08 PM
See http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=429810
For the one without spoilers...about two different episodes. Christ IDSmoker's two threads are like a reading comprehension test.
Anyways.
This episode was really enjoyable to me to, washes away the bad memory of the first five episodes (I still haven't seen the unaired pilot, I'll be watching it tomorrow though) and there was even Whedon speak in it.
Interesting how this will play out with most likely the majority of the audience not watching this going into the second season. I wish they would have made Caroline out the way we saw her (separating her personalities) earlier instead of dragging it out for so long, thats how I expected the first episode to end before the show started (and I think thats how it was supposed to be, but like I said I havent seen the unaired pilot yet)
I'll have more to post later but I have to catch a movie.
spikedavis
07-18-2009, 09:15 PM
Absolute brilliance on all levels. And the scene with the Rossum Corporation employee delivering the new plan to Dewitt and Topher in Victor's body was downright chilling.
"I'm having this same conversation in 10 other bodies right now."
Leave it to Fox in it's infinite brilliance to not run this episode of all episodes. This really shows the potential of this amazing series and doesn't leave it pigeonholed into a "case of the week" type show.
dswallow
07-18-2009, 09:28 PM
It's truly a game changing episode; we all have certain preconceived notions of what this is all about -- up until this episode, and I think most everybody suddenly is turn 90 degrees sideways, at least, about what the show is all about.
I'm wondering is the next season supposed to follow this development? I can't imagine how they could continue earlier in time, except the occasional flashback, after this episode.
spikedavis
07-18-2009, 09:45 PM
I wonder if since this episode didn't air if it is considered canon? And Amy Acker never looked more beautiful.
Aniketos
07-19-2009, 12:29 AM
I wonder if since this episode didn't air if it is considered canon? And Amy Acker never looked more beautiful.
According to Joss it is.
spikedavis
07-19-2009, 01:36 AM
I don't even know where to begin discussing this.
Mispelld
07-19-2009, 01:51 AM
Wow. Now that's what TV should be. Absolutely loved the song at the end.
atrac
07-19-2009, 06:11 AM
Felicia Day. :)
Yep, it was fantastic! It exceeded my expectations (which were high, believe me!).
Peter000
07-19-2009, 07:17 AM
Where are you guys getting this? Did you download it or what?
EDIT: Nevermind. I saws the "Leaked" thread.
Peter000
07-19-2009, 01:13 PM
To me it felt like they weren't planning on getting renewed, so they shot this series ender. Very typical joss-like bleak ending.
It will be interesting to see where they go from here.
spikedavis
07-19-2009, 02:27 PM
It works as a series finale as well as a road map for future seasons. We know pieces of the puzzle but we need the blanks filled in.
We know that Echo now has Caroline permanently in her head along with whatever consciousness is downloaded-and it causes headaches.
We know that her and Ballard are secretly working against the Dollhouse.
We know that Victor and Whiskey get their faces healed somehow.
We know that Dr. Saunders and Boyd form a relationship-and that he must run for his life.
We know that Victor and Sierra form a relationship after their "Selves" are returned to them-and then eventually break up.
We know that Dominic returns from the attic for some reason.
We know that Adelle does have some form of guilt for what they've done and she seals everyone off in the Dollhouse for their own safety.
We know that Topher is responsible for the technology that's responsible for the apocalypse and he goes insane because of it.
Also, Caroline hints that Alpha is to be thanked for helping them...What's that about??
Robin
07-25-2009, 04:19 PM
We know that Dominic returns from the attic for some reason.
And that they kept his body around, and that he didn't like what they did with it. I assume they used him as an active, but that was never shown.
Graymalkin
07-25-2009, 04:28 PM
I'm starting to think it would be a bad idea for me to watch this episode because it'll give me nightmares for a year.
desaun
07-25-2009, 08:15 PM
WOW!!
Awesome. On so many levels!!
packerfan
07-25-2009, 11:59 PM
Just finished watching....all I can say is wow! There aren't too many shows these days that leave you wanting more.
Pralix
07-27-2009, 10:19 PM
It was nice to see Scut Farkus in something since A Christmas Story.
mrdazzo7
07-31-2009, 11:22 PM
It works as a series finale as well as a road map for future seasons. We know pieces of the puzzle but we need the blanks filled in.
We know that Echo now has Caroline permanently in her head along with whatever consciousness is downloaded-and it causes headaches.
We know that her and Ballard are secretly working against the Dollhouse.
We know that Victor and Whiskey get their faces healed somehow.
We know that Dr. Saunders and Boyd form a relationship-and that he must run for his life.
We know that Victor and Sierra form a relationship after their "Selves" are returned to them-and then eventually break up.
We know that Dominic returns from the attic for some reason.
We know that Adelle does have some form of guilt for what they've done and she seals everyone off in the Dollhouse for their own safety.
We know that Topher is responsible for the technology that's responsible for the apocalypse and he goes insane because of it.
Also, Caroline hints that Alpha is to be thanked for helping them...What's that about??
Really cool episode, but doesn't having all the above knowledge kind of take the suspense out of the coming episodes? If it's currently 2009 in the Dollhouse world, then it's safe to say that the events alluded to in this episode will not overlap with the current storyline. But doesn't it have to? I know we don't know exactly when the flashbacks are taking place as compared to the 2019 stuff, so is it possible that all this stuff will unfold in the coming 13 episodes? That would be kind of cool.
What I mean is, if the events of those "flashbacks" (which are actually "flashforwards" for the current timeline), don't occur in this coming season, then isn't a lot of suspense kind of lifted, in the sense that you know no matter what, all the main characters are alive in the future?
I actually LOVE the ideas Joss set up with this episode, and I hope that the events alluded to are part of Season Two and not simply on hold for much further down the line. I think Season two should slightly build in the background and culminate in whatever key event it is that sets this thing off.
FilmCritic3000
08-01-2009, 11:01 AM
I can't say anything else that wasn't already said.
WOW. Just an utterly brilliant episode.
I can't wait for Season Two.
busyba
08-06-2009, 02:45 PM
Really cool episode, but doesn't having all the above knowledge kind of take the suspense out of the coming episodes?
This is a lot like what happened with Babylon 5.
The last episode of Season 4 was set in increasingly distant eras of the future, and some of it involved people in the future looking back to events in their past that was still in our (the viewers at home) future (just like the flashbacks in this Dollhouse ep).
A lot of Season 5 involved journneys that led to the things that had been revealed in that S4 epsiode. The suspense was not diminished, because knowing the destination does not diminish the journey.
Heck, from the first or second episode of Season 1 of B5 there was a major revelation about the ultimate destiny of two major character, but all we knew about was a single major moment in the distant future, and that wasn't the story, the story is in how they came to be in that moment.
Watching the first few minutes of this EP I thought I DLed the wrong show. Wow what a reboot. If season 2 is the journey to the apocalypse then thats fine by me.
Who was in the little girl before she got put in the chair and got printed with Caroline?
busyba
08-07-2009, 11:52 AM
Who was in the little girl before she got put in the chair and got printed with Caroline?
I'm assuming she was imprinted with the generic "bad guy" template that had been robocalled into the population at large by the Chinese.
btw... she kinda looked like Abigail Breslin, no?
Malcontent
08-07-2009, 06:40 PM
How Dollhouse's 'lost episode' will drive season two
Spoilers: in original story/link.
http://scifiwire.com/2009/08/how-dollhouses-lost-episo.php#more
There could be a few spoilers if you follow the link. The story talks about some plot points from last season and if/how/when they are resolved. Some future character development is mentioned.
So when Fox picked up a second season of the sci-fi series, Whedon instead intended to use the "Epitaph" storyline as the jumping-off point to drive the new season's arcs. But the episode ended up only on the season-one DVD/Blu-ray set (it also screened at Comic-Con), complicating any plans to use it to inform the second season's stories.
Nevertheless, Fran Kranz—who plays doll programmer Topher—confirmed that producers still plan to go there, even though there's a part of the audience who only watched the episodes that aired on Fox last season.
"We're really going to move forward towards where 'Epitaph One' ended, and we're heading towards the apocalypse," Kranz said in an exclusive interview Thursday at the Television Critics Association summer press tour in Pasadena, Calif. "It's still going to go according to [Whedon's] plan."
unicorngoddess
08-07-2009, 06:48 PM
I think Epitaph would work really good as a Season 2 premire. I don't care that I've already seen it.
GadgetFreak
08-08-2009, 03:39 AM
At the end when they climb out the window they go up -- is there a helicopter on the roof?
Bill Reeves
08-13-2009, 07:54 PM
Bump.
Can someone who has the DVD set confirm that this episode is on disk #4 of the regular (non-BluRay) DVD set? That will help me to update my Netflix queue.
Bump.
Can someone who has the DVD set confirm that this episode is on disk #4 of the regular (non-BluRay) DVD set? That will help me to update my Netflix queue.
I just watched the DVD via Netflix.
It is indeed DVD 4.
It's worth listening to the commentary too, to hear the details about how and why this episode came about and what they were thinking.
They had no idea if the show was going to be picked up at the point they wrote and filmed it. But the things they put in, they have every intention of writing toward...
Bill Reeves
08-13-2009, 08:15 PM
I just watched the DVD via Netflix.
It is indeed DVD 4.
Thanks!
BeanMeScot
08-13-2009, 09:12 PM
That was a GREAT episode! Makes me want more. That would have been a great series finale. I am VERY glad it wasn't!
Mispelld
08-13-2009, 09:42 PM
I just watched the DVD via Netflix.
It is indeed DVD 4.
It's worth listening to the commentary too, to hear the details about how and why this episode came about and what they were thinking.
They had no idea if the show was going to be picked up at the point they wrote and filmed it. But the things they put in, they have every intention of writing toward...Yes, the commentary is very enlightening. Was surprising to me that Joss's brother and sister-in-law were primarily responsible for this episode and not Joss himself.
IndyJones1023
08-15-2009, 07:34 AM
This was damn good stuff!
TiVo Steve
08-15-2009, 03:24 PM
Wow!!!
Maybe because I watched this right after seeing the unaired pilot, but I really liked this!
Dr. Saunders and Boyd as a couple?
The scene between DeWitt and 'broken' Topher?
Alpha apparently on the side of the 'angels' at the Compound/Safe Haven?
The idea of using an automated telemarketing system to take over a country?
Just.... wow!
I put the unaired pilot and Epitaph One back to back for a friend who had never watched Dollhouse... cool. Would have made a great movie!
I am downloading Epitaph One from Amazon right now. Sure, not HD, but for $1.99, it's letterboxed, I don't have to wait in this ongodly queue at my library for the DVD for free, or pay $5 at Blockbuster. I'll watch it today! Can't wait.
Just watched it. Brilliant TV.
I think even with knowledge of what is to come, the stories leading up to it will be awesome. Like on Lost. You know sort of ultimately what will happen, but you get to enjoy the ride getting there.......
And with Summer Glau making appearances.......
Boy oh boy S2 can't come soon enough.
Also, btw, I downloaded the non-HD from Amazon (no HD of this series/ep). Looked pretty damn good for a non-HD episode.
BWINKLER92
08-17-2009, 07:47 AM
For what reason would they not want to show this ep? They spent money making it, and will use the plot, so of course it will air, I assume as the start of season 2. Why would anyone think they would make an episode to not show? Don't they cost money and they want a profit, or is the world crazy today?
For what reason would they not want to show this ep? They spent money making it, and will use the plot, so of course it will air, I assume as the start of season 2. Why would anyone think they would make an episode to not show? Don't they cost money and they want a profit, or is the world crazy today?
http://dollhouse.wikia.com/wiki/Epitaph_One
Bai Shen
08-17-2009, 10:11 AM
Yes, the commentary is very enlightening. Was surprising to me that Joss's brother and sister-in-law were primarily responsible for this episode and not Joss himself.
They were also the ones largely behind Dr Horrible along with Joss. So having them behind a Dollhouse ep doesn't surprise me.
Craigbob
08-17-2009, 05:55 PM
Finally got a chance to watch this one. This one was great. Interesting look on what the tech is capable of with a few modifications. So we finally find out Topher's last name and that he is not a download of a previous personality.
I find it interesting that Donovan and Topher hated each other from the get go, instead of it building up from something we had not seen. I guess some people just rub each other the wrong way immediately.
BWINKLER92
08-17-2009, 06:17 PM
hefe, ok, thanks, it explains why it was not part of season 1 well, but I will bet they will use it in season 2 just as they said they used the pooly made pilot in parts. All they will have to do is have her dream about the future from the present, show this, then she awakes and the season 2 goes on in present day. I am sure they will because they said it is well made, and they even used up the not well made pilot scenes didn't they? It will save them doing another episode, you will see it, just modified some. Wait and see.
spikedavis
08-18-2009, 12:19 AM
hefe, ok, thanks, it explains why it was not part of season 1 well, but I will bet they will use it in season 2 just as they said they used the pooly made pilot in parts. All they will have to do is have her dream about the future from the present, show this, then she awakes and the season 2 goes on in present day. I am sure they will because they said it is well made, and they even used up the not well made pilot scenes didn't they? It will save them doing another episode, you will see it, just modified some. Wait and see.
No-Joss said that we will go back and forth throughout the season-we will see the future every now and then when it's relevant to the episode. But they won't got back to Epitath One-we will see what happens to those characters after Epitath One.
BitbyBlit
08-20-2009, 11:01 AM
I hope they find some way to air this episode. I was still planning to watch the next season, but until this episode I wasn't excited about it coming back. This episode takes everything to a whole new level, and gives the show a focus that it has not had before. I think there are a lot of people on the fence who could get pulled back into the show after seeing this. Maybe they could have a special two-hour premiere, with the first hour being this one, and the second being the first episode of season two.
Actually, this show would have been an excellent one to have kicked off the first season. Perhaps some of the flashbacks would have needed to have been cut or revised to keep some suspense, but it would have been cool to see this apocalyptic future that was somehow tied to the Dollhouse, and then go back and see things developing in the present. The way the characters slowly discovered more and more about the Dollhouse would have been a much better introduction to it than the "jump-right-into-the-middle-of-things" pilot they aired.
Sirius Black
08-21-2009, 09:23 AM
To me it felt like they weren't planning on getting renewed, so they shot this series ender. Very typical joss-like bleak ending.
It will be interesting to see where they go from here.
Buffy didn't end bleakly. They had just <insert spoiler here>. That was a good thing. Last time I checked. Of course, there was still a Hellmouth in Cleveland to deal with.
Rewatched again. less tired. and it made more sense. I so loved this episode. I don't care where it goes, as long as it is going.
My two can't miss shows this season.....Dollhouse and Lost. Everything else, just gravy.
Peter000
08-28-2009, 01:08 AM
Buffy didn't end bleakly. They had just <insert spoiler here>. That was a good thing. Last time I checked. Of course, there was still a Hellmouth in Cleveland to deal with.Well, there are exceptions of course. But I've found that Joss's stuff ends on a dark note with a bare glimmer of hope. Except for Dr. Horrible, which was TOTALLY bleak. Angel ended pretty bleakly as well. Buffy, Serenity (which I consider the end of the Firefly series) were the most optimistic endings.
But even in Buffy...
Sunnydale was completely wiped out. Pyrrhic victory style.
busyba
08-28-2009, 12:14 PM
But even in Buffy...
Sunnydale was completely wiped out. Pyrrhic victory style.
yeah, but...
...it was evacuated first, so they saved what mattered. The town was built on a hellmouth, so saving it was probably not in the cards no matter what. A controlled demolition that limited loss of life was their best-case scenario.
debtoine
08-28-2009, 12:32 PM
I'm assuming she was imprinted with the generic "bad guy" template that had been robocalled into the population at large by the Chinese.
btw... she kinda looked like Abigail Breslin, no?
She's Adair Tishler (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1442940/). She plays/ed Molly on Heroes.
deb
busyba
08-28-2009, 01:32 PM
She's Adair Tishler (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm1442940/). She plays/ed Molly on Heroes.
deb
I knew she looked familiar!
FWIW, I think I remember that I also thought she looked like Breslin when I saw her on Heroes. :)
MickeS
09-07-2009, 02:44 AM
I finally downloaded this episode (was holding out for an Amazon HD version but no go :rolleyes:). I thought it was great, but it reminded me why I liked this series more than the other Joss Whedon shows I've seen - the dialog really annoyed me at times. It was just too damn cute for its own good in places. In the rest of the series, it has mostly been kept to a minimum with Topher. Hopefully in season 2 it will be back to the season 1 style more. :)
Other than that, great and unpredictable story. Will be interesting to see what they make of it.
Anubys
09-07-2009, 10:00 AM
it's interesting to me that the two best episodes are the unaired pilot and the unaired ep 13...
I had missed ep 1 as well; which was pretty good (HDD failure before I got to watch it)...so I had not given Dollhouse high marks as some of you have done on TCF...now that I've seen the unaired shows plus ep 1, this has gone up in my priority list to crack to the top 5...
mrmike
09-08-2009, 11:09 AM
Having finally gotten through my Blu-Ray copy of the season:
Wow. I need to re-watch with commentary but I'm stoked.
I did watch the Featurettes, and I swear I caught a dig about "Lost" style storytelling in there. Or was I reading too much into that?
Oh, and Joss/Jed? Video game rights to this world should be explored ASAP. Zombie armageddon with potentially smarter and/or undercover zombies. As well as the usual cannon fodder "Dumb Shows" and "Butchers" What's not to love?
Jonathan_S
09-11-2009, 03:26 PM
I finally got exposed to Epitaph One and now I've got serius UMF for the season 1 blu-rays.
Great episode. FOX is crazy for not working a deal to get this ep on the air.
BitbyBlit
09-15-2009, 11:49 AM
it's interesting to me that the two best episodes are the unaired pilot and the unaired ep 13...
As much as I didn't think the aired pilot was a good pilot, I thought the unaired pilot was even worse. So between the two, I'm glad they aired the pilot they did. If I ever decide to watch through the whole series again, Epitaph One will be my unofficial unaired pilot, followed by the aired pilot as the "second" episode.
Hunter Green
09-26-2009, 03:30 PM
At the end when they climb out the window they go up -- is there a helicopter on the roof?
How far up in the "building above the Dollhouse" is Adele's office, anyway? It's definitely up from the Dollhouse since it's aboveground, but it might not be that far up.
Butchers remind me a lot of Reavers, but the way they become Butchers is even scarier.
I was floored by this episode. But at the same time a part of me is kind of irked that this episode seems to take what has been a very ambiguous question: is the technology of the Dollhouse inevitably a bad idea that can't help but be misused? And turns it into no ambiguity at all, so everyone who defends or defended it comes out looking like a patsy. It's way too early to have that question entirely settled, to my tastes.
I have finally realized why it's called Rossum (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rossum%27s_Universal_Robots). I can't believe I never thought of this before.
Rob Helmerichs
09-26-2009, 03:56 PM
I was floored by this episode. But at the same time a part of me is kind of irked that this episode seems to take what has been a very ambiguous question: is the technology of the Dollhouse inevitably a bad idea that can't help but be misused? And turns it into no ambiguity at all, so everyone who defends or defended it comes out looking like a patsy. It's way too early to have that question entirely settled, to my tastes.
Apparently, it was meant to be settled from the beginning...Whedon's vision was to have the immorality of the concept central to the show all along. But the network objected and made him soft-peddle it. Now, they've promised to back off, so presumably the show will become darker and, frankly, more in-tune with its central concept.
(I haven't seen last night's yet...zero-minute lost-signal recording.)
Hunter Green
09-26-2009, 07:21 PM
Even so, I prefer having the question open. The people who defend the idea that it's possible not to use this in the worst imaginable way shouldn't be just sock puppets set up so they can look stupid. Heck, even Gattaca, which was conceived very firmly as a scathing condemnation and warning, gave its other side a reasonable shake.
DancnDude
01-08-2010, 03:49 PM
I just watched this over lunch. Holy cow was this awesome! Along with the most recent few episodes especially "The Attic", this show is going in a completely awesome direction. Too bad it's going to be ending....it's almost too good to end now :(
Yeah, watching the last few episodes knowing where it all is heading is great!
IDSmoker
01-30-2010, 07:28 PM
I wasn't the only one to re-watch Epitaph 1 before watching the series finale, was I?
Considering how great I thought this episode was when I first saw it when it showed up on the internet, I was really surprised by how fresh my take on it was from a second watching, now that I've seen the second season.
One minor nit for me was the fate of Whiskey/Dr. Saunders/Amy Acker's character. The first time I watched this episode, I took away from her final scene that she was waiting for all the 'Butchers' to collapse so that she could clean up the Dollhouse and continue waiting for either Boyd to return for her or for the next group of people to come through in need of directions to 'Safe Haven'.
But since in the finale/Epitaph 2:
Not only is Whiskey never referenced, but Alpha specifically states that he cleaned up the Dollhouse when he arrived.I'm left to wonder if we aren't supposed to assume that Whiskey was waiting for the gas to reach her so that she could die.
Considering the time gap that occurred between the filming of Epitaphs 1 and 2, I'm actually very surprised at how well they work together.
BTW, Fox really missed a bet by not showing Epitaph 1 & 2 together as a movie, no matter what legal/financial hoops were needed to make that happen.
Snappa77
01-31-2010, 09:59 AM
Is it possible to watch this Ep online?
LoadStar
01-31-2010, 10:13 AM
Is it possible to watch this Ep online?
Yes, but not for free. You can get it through Amazon On Demand:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002L9LMPU
Or iTunes:
http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewTVSeason?i=326362546&id=303019310&s=143441&uo=2&uo=2&v0=WWW-NAUS-ITUHOME-TOPTVs
Eptiger
02-01-2010, 05:57 PM
Yes, but not for free. You can get it through Amazon On Demand:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002L9LMPU
Or iTunes:
http://itunes.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewTVSeason?i=326362546&id=303019310&s=143441&uo=2&uo=2&v0=WWW-NAUS-ITUHOME-TOPTVs
However, Amazon does have a bunch of promotions for credit on Amazon Video on Demand. Certain blu-ray players and blu-ray/DVDs give you credit for VOD. I downloaded an mp3 album yesterday that gave me a $3 credit.
Downloading mine to my TiVo right now, can't wait to watch it tonight!
Elton
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