Guess I'm giving up on TiVo ...

[shefftom]

I have been a TiVo customer for about five years. I have 4 TiVo boxes, including two series 2. I bought two HD televisions and two HD TiVo's and Brighthouse Tampabay cannot install the cablecards. They have been at my home four times and today they came and installed a tuner adapter ahead of the HD TiVo's and couldn't make it work. They are brining their stinkin' Brighthouse DVR's over tomorrow to see if we like. I know we won't, but don't know what to do. I have called the TiVo cable card hotline, they were on the line with them. The supervisor we talked to didn't know what a TiVo was. The installer told us that there were only three HD TiVo's attached to Brighthouse in my county, population 516,000.

This is an irresistable force meeting an unmoveable object as they say, and I have lost my will power. Anyone in the market for two HD Tivo's, like new condition. It pains me to think about selling them.

[wmcbrine]

First of all, they are legally required to make CableCards work. They can't just give up on it (or make you give up on it).

Second... CableCards are easy. The only reasons for not getting them to work are deep incompetence, or outright malice.

You might consider contacting your local franchise authority.

P.S. If there are three TiVo HD's set up on their system in your county, then that proves it's possible to do it, and there should be no reason you can't have the fourth (and fifth).

[HomeUser]

If you haven't already scan this thread. Bright House - refusing to provide cable cards (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=315837&highlight=Brighthouse+Tampabay)

[CrispyCritter]

There are lots of people in the Tampa area with TiVo cablecards (see the thread cited above for a dozen or so with BrightHouse). See if you can contact one of them (via PM) in your county so that the installers have a successful implementation to compare against.

There's no excuse for BrightHouse - they are legally obligated to get those cablecards working. At the least, you should be able to get a free Brighthouse DVR from them during the period it takes them to get you TiVos working.

As wmcbrine said, the first place to complain is your local franchise authority. Send a copy of the letter to the head of the local Brighthouse franchise and politely ask him/her if they have any comments on it before you send it off to the the FCC. The FCC tends to move slowly, but does not take outright defiance lightly.

[shefftom]

I could write a book about this experience. I probably have talked with 20 people at BHN. I have read all of these threads. It is useless if the people are too incompetent to figure it out. I really think that TiVo should have a liason with Brighthouse to insure that these cases get handled.

Two guys spent almost three hours at my home today. They installed a tuner adapter and they set the TV's to bypass TiVo. I went back in and switched the source on the TV's back to the HDMI for TiVo. Then I went in and tried to do guided setup. It stops and says the cable cards are not configured and will not let me proceed with guide setup. So, after three hours, they did not configure the cable card.

The people on the phone at customer support are absolutely clueless. One lady got irate with me because I would not give her my television make and model. I told her she did not need my TV info.

Here's the killer -- I had one HD TiVo working with 2 single-stream cards and had asked them to install two cards in the new HD TiVo. The installer pulled the cards out of the working TiVo and tried them in the new TiVo, which ruined the configuration on the original TiVo. They refuse to read the TiVo cable card information sheets and they refuse to call the TiVo cable card hotline. And I am paying these idiots $125 per month for cable and internet.

[wmcbrine]

There's always OTA...

[daveak]

..... And I am paying these idiots $125 per month for cable and internet.

So for $1500 a year, what other options do you have? Brighthouse, of the many cable cos talked about on this forum, is one of the worst. Amazon HD movies are about $4-5 to download. Netflix starts at about $9 a month. You can buy a value Blu-ray player from Walmart for about $98 - and many of their Blu-rays are in the $15 to $20 range. I am sure you can get some decent OTA - and yes you would miss some cable shows, but a lot of them are available for viewing through Neflix or Amazon (and others) on your TiVo (though sometimes you will need to wait -and Netflix has tons of History channel shows). I do not know what you would pay for just internet, but consider the options. How many of those 100 channels do you actually watch? What could yo do with the $2-4000 you could save over a three year period?

You've probably already done the math and maybe giving them $1500 each year is worth it, but HD OTA is good - and do not forget that most digital channels now have sub channels with additional programming. We get 19 OTA channels (including subs). And yes, I am very biased towards OTA - I get this free ad based service. And it is worth every penny.

[jcthorne]

I would not be paying them much of anything until they actually make thier equipment work.

You need to get upper management involved and file an FCC complaint.

[dlfl]

I'm not giving up on TiVo but I have to sympathize with shefftom. It appears to me that the entire CableCard/Tuning Adapter system is a shaky system due to several factors:

1. Too many separate interoperating components for reliability -- to put it simply it's a kludge approach.
2. No single entity with a true incentive and/or technical ability to make it operate correctly.
3. It's a low volume piece of CATV business.

You can talk about the legal responsibility the CATV cos. have to support the system but they have no financial incentive to do so. Any practical perspective on human nature indicates you will thus get poor installation and technical support.

TiVo has the incentive and (I assume) is trying hard. But they don't have unlimited technical resources and, most important, they don't have control of all the technical factors involved.

[Adam1115]

Sorry to hear that. I can understand having a sucky cable company

First of all, they are legally required to make CableCards work. They can't just give up on it (or make you give up on it).

So what? What's he going to do, take them to court? Some people just don't have the energy or time to take on a legal battle to force a company to do what they want.

And frankly I'd have a difficult time handing over $$$ every month to such a crappy company. Maybe if they start losing customers over their crappy support they will get the message. Probably not though.

While TiVo is great, sometimes it just isn't worth it for TV.

[wmcbrine]

So what? What's he going to do, take them to court?Like I said -- he should contact his local franchising authority. They can enforce it.

[modnar]

My cable company in a town of about 55,000 had no issues when installing a multi-stream cable card. Although the techs at my house said they had never installed cable cards before, they had clearly been told what they would need to do, and the person they called with the cable card info was also educated properly.

[shefftom]

My cable company in a town of about 55,000 had no issues when installing a multi-stream cable card. Although the techs at my house said they had never installed cable cards before, they had clearly been told what they would need to do, and the person they called with the cable card info was also educated properly.

I could move to Arkansas, or hire your techs to come to my house. No training is definitely the problem. An no one to do the training.

[shefftom]

There's always OTA...

Checked into OTA. I'm too far from the towers. I am being descriminated against with fewer options because I live in fly-over country.

[shefftom]

I'm not giving up on TiVo but I have to sympathize with shefftom.

TiVo has the incentive and (I assume) is trying hard. But they don't have unlimited technical resources and, most important, they don't have control of all the technical factors involved.

You have hit the nail on the head. And, even though I love TiVo, I am afraid that it is going to go the way of the 8-track player if they can't adapt. The cable industry has the power to crush this company. I am convinced they are doing it intentionally.

I said these techs are not trained properly, but I think they are trained quite well to frustrate customers into giving up TiVo.

[flatcurve]

You have hit the nail on the head. And, even though I love TiVo, I am afraid that it is going to go the way of the 8-track player if they can't adapt. The cable industry has the power to crush this company. I am convinced they are doing it intentionally.

I said these techs are not trained properly, but I think they are trained quite well to frustrate customers into giving up TiVo.

I'm sure they want to adapt, and will make every attempt to do so (i.e. Tru2Way Series 4 units and the SDV tuner.) But what we're seeing is exactly what happens when the gov't mandates something from an industry, and then allows it to regulate itself. TiVo is at their mercy.

[tiassa]

I could write a book about this experience. I probably have talked with 20 people at BHN. I have read all of these threads. It is useless if the people are too incompetent to figure it out. I really think that TiVo should have a liason with Brighthouse to insure that these cases get handled.

Two guys spent almost three hours at my home today. They installed a tuner adapter and they set the TV's to bypass TiVo. I went back in and switched the source on the TV's back to the HDMI for TiVo. Then I went in and tried to do guided setup. It stops and says the cable cards are not configured and will not let me proceed with guide setup. So, after three hours, they did not configure the cable card.

The people on the phone at customer support are absolutely clueless. One lady got irate with me because I would not give her my television make and model. I told her she did not need my TV info.

Here's the killer -- I had one HD TiVo working with 2 single-stream cards and had asked them to install two cards in the new HD TiVo. The installer pulled the cards out of the working TiVo and tried them in the new TiVo, which ruined the configuration on the original TiVo. They refuse to read the TiVo cable card information sheets and they refuse to call the TiVo cable card hotline. And I am paying these idiots $125 per month for cable and internet.

Document, document, document. Write to whoever is in charge of the cable franchize in your local area and tell them this story. Tell them the BHN is in violation of FCC regs and that you want them to follow up on this. Then call BHN's support line and as soon as you get a real person say "I want to talk to a supervisor", tell them your saga and ask for someone who knows how to deal with cablecards. Tell them that you are going to stop paying your bill until they get the problem fixed to your satisfaction. I really think that your problem is due to incompetent installers and not BHN policy per se (although their lack of training of their installers is probably "policy"). If you can get beyond the front line drones, you might have a chance.

[shefftom]

say "I want to talk to a supervisor", tell them your saga and ask for someone who knows how to deal with cablecards ... If you can get beyond the front line drones, you might have a chance.

I agree, I have decided to keep up the fight. I did ask for a supervisor and I think the lady gave me to the drone in the next cubicle. She thought a TiVo was a type of television and tried to explain to me about what a BHN DVR is. Neither HD TiVo is configured after literally six or seven hours of tech time in my house! They had promised to come back today (after lunch) but when I called in, the record showed that the project was complete, and no record of a planned service call. The new supervisor suggested that I set a new appointment another appointment. Nothing on the account showing the problems. So, you are correct, I need to be documenting every visit and conversation.

[Sy-]

I have been a TiVo customer for about five years. I have 4 TiVo boxes, including two series 2. I bought two HD televisions and two HD TiVo's and Brighthouse Tampabay cannot install the cablecards.

Sounds to me like you need to "give up" on your cable company rather than "give up" on Tivo. ;)

[bicker]

It appears to me that the entire CableCard/Tuning Adapter system is a shaky system due to several factors:

1. Too many separate interoperating components for reliability -- to put it simply it's a kludge approach.
2. No single entity with a true incentive and/or technical ability to make it operate correctly.
3. It's a low volume piece of CATV business.Great summary. It simply isn't a robust technology.


So what? What's he going to do, take them to court? Some people just don't have the energy or time to take on a legal battle to force a company to do what they want.If consumers don't care, then why should governments or suppliers care?

And frankly I'd have a difficult time handing over $$$ every month to such a crappy company. Maybe if they start losing customers over their crappy support they will get the message. Probably not though.No, no. They surely would. And that is the correct avenue. So again, it comes back to consumers not caring. As long as they continue "handing over $$$ every month" to a company that you claim they consider "crappy" then their doing so belies your claim that they consider the company "crappy".


Like I said -- he should contact his local franchising authority. They can enforce it.And they would if they felt that their constituents cared -- if their constituents considered this claimed transgression to be a legitimate and important claim. Evidently, in many cases, they don't. "We the people" determine what is important, not with our words but with our actions. Inaction in response to complaints (surely if by complainants, and if not by complainants then if by authorities) is superlatively compelling evidence of lack of significance of complaints, whether we like it or not.

[davezatz]

Like I said -- he should contact his local franchising authority. They can enforce it.

Agreed. About 15 months ago Comcast wasn't taking care of things as they should. I called the county (franchising authority in my case/region) to file a report/complaint. Had a call back from a Comcast supervisor 30 minutes later and an onsite visit from a high level ninja tech employee (not a contractor, as they usually send) the next business day with three CableCARDs in hand. Still took him an hour on the phone with his people to make it work, but it was taken care of.

(My complaint wasn't that they couldn't technically install CableCARDs... when I called in they said they didn't have any, it'd be several weeks before I could get them at our new place. Would I like to try their DVR instead. I called BS.)

[slowbiscuit]

Sounds exactly like my CC experience with Comcast, Dave. They cancelled 3 straight Tivo install appts. a year ago claiming that there were no cards or that the cards were broken. I escalated to corporate and the next day I had the area supervisor out with the local CC expert installer. Took a couple of hours for them to get the right person on the phone to init the card properly, but it got done.

Sad, but it's a common story with CCs no matter who the provider is. They just don't do enough of them to care, and they don't want you using your own boxes anyway.

[randyb359]

I had Fios installed in January. when I called to set up the appointment the customer service rep did not know what a cable card was but after I told her I knew they carried them she put me on hold for a couple minutes then came back and set up the order. The tech had no problem installing them and even knew about the need for attenuators. A few weeks ago I called to have the two S cards swapped for on M card. The tech had an S card. He apologized and came back a couple days later with an M card and had no problem installing it. Based on my experience I would say Verizon seams willing to do cable cards just not experienced with it. We need to get all our friends to get TiVos so they get more practice:)

[tiassa]

I agree, I have decided to keep up the fight. I did ask for a supervisor and I think the lady gave me to the drone in the next cubicle. She thought a TiVo was a type of television and tried to explain to me about what a BHN DVR is. Neither HD TiVo is configured after literally six or seven hours of tech time in my house! They had promised to come back today (after lunch) but when I called in, the record showed that the project was complete, and no record of a planned service call. The new supervisor suggested that I set a new appointment another appointment. Nothing on the account showing the problems. So, you are correct, I need to be documenting every visit and conversation.

Also mention to them that you haven't had service for however long it has been and that you aren''t going to pay your bill until you get service. Loss of revenue tends to get their attention.

[Runch Machine]

Checked into OTA. I'm too far from the towers. I am being descriminated against with fewer options because I live in fly-over country.

This is very simple. If your cable company doesn't provide the service that you need, then dump them. Cancelling the service sends strong message.

I've had DIRECTV for several years. Some of the time was when they were using Tivo software on their DVRs and now, with DIRECTV's own DVR software. DIRECTV has copied nearly every feature that Tivo has. At this point the only thing missing is suggestions.

They currently have dual live buffers available in pre-release. They also have multi room viewing. While I hate to see another Tivo customer go away, you will save serious money by switching to DIRECTV. Also, they have more channels in HD and better picture quality than cable.

Tivo and Directv has announced that Tivo software will again be available in DIRECTV DVRs in 2010. If you decide you don't like Directv's software then eventually you will be able to switch to the Tivo user interface again.

I don't understand why people stay with lousy service from cable companies such as Comcast and Brighthouse. You have choices.

[samo]

I don't understand why people stay with lousy service from cable companies such as Comcast and Brighthouse. You have choices.
While I honestly believe that either of satellite providers is a superior choice to any cable company in terms of programming and overall quality and that satellite DVRs are superior to TiVo, the switch from cable is not that simple for some people. First - you have to have an unobstructed view of satellites, second - you need to have some good alternative for the broadband, third - regardless how you slice it, the triple play most of the time is cheaper than combination of satellite, broadband and phone.

[bicker]

So what you're saying is sometime the cable company is the best of the available choices.

[lafos]

Especially if you invested in several S3 or HD TiVos, since they don't work with sat.

[slowbiscuit]

While I honestly believe that either of satellite providers is a superior choice to any cable company in terms of programming and overall quality and that satellite DVRs are superior to TiVo <snip>
How so? I've played with both and to me, the Tivo has more features and flexibility than the sat DVRs. Broadband stuff, multi-room networking and show transfers to/from PC, mostly. I'm curious why you think sat DVRs are better.

[HiDefGator]

How so? I've played with both and to me, the Tivo has more features and flexibility than the sat DVRs.

sure it does. but is it really worth spending hours (days) fighting with a cable company company to make it work?

if someone started telling me to document, document, document or to call my franchise authority to get my Tivo to work I'd laugh at them. having a Tivo is not worth it if I have to spend half my time and patience getting it to work.

on the other hand Directv or Dish will come to your house, install the DVR, verify it works, and teach you how to use it before they leave. Life is only so long. pick your battles.

[ZeoTiVo]

on the other hand Directv or Dish will come to your house, install the DVR, verify it works, and teach you how to use it before they leave. Life is only so long. pick your battles.

so would the cable company - not seeing how that in itself makes any of them a better DVR. I spend a decent amount of time watching shows I recorded on my DVR and so does my family - I make heavy use of TiVoToComeBack for the movies we watch in house*. This results in a simple hit power button hit Tivo button twice and we are in now playing with a slew of stuff to watch or copy and watch. Throw in Netflix watch instantly and now we have a bunch of streaming options as well. All reliable as anything. All on terrabytes worth of storage for very little money. No other DVR would provide that for my whole family experience.

For me the life is short is the reason I would fight to have the cable company do things right and keep TiVo DVRs working correctly in my house.

* even had a slightly deeper reason for TiVo tonight. My kids wanted to watch "Fired Up" Goofy PG13 comedy for teens. It arrives in Netflix and I ripped it to the PC server. Well it had a lot of scenes that were not Pg13 in my book, complete with a boob flash, at which point I ended the viewing. Instead of telling her she can not watch it at all - I go to the PC I store movie rips on - fire up video redo and edit out the 10 minutes of stuff I found not PG13. Took me maybe 10 minutes tops and then told her she could copy it to the TiVo again and watch it. Happy kids, happy enough parents. Not something that would happen with another DVR.

[Adam1115]

sure it does. but is it really worth spending hours (days) fighting with a cable company company to make it work?

if someone started telling me to document, document, document or to call my franchise authority to get my Tivo to work I'd laugh at them. having a Tivo is not worth it if I have to spend half my time and patience getting it to work.

on the other hand Directv or Dish will come to your house, install the DVR, verify it works, and teach you how to use it before they leave. Life is only so long. pick your battles.

I completely agree with you.

[nrc]

sure it does. but is it really worth spending hours (days) fighting with a cable company company to make it work?


It's funny that you say that when you can go on any DBS forum and get all kinds of advice on how you should fight with your provider for just about everything. Fight for a decent HD upgrade, fight for Sunday ticket deal, fight for free HBO. It's endless. Nobody spends more time fighting with CSRs and retention than a DBS subscriber. It's a hobby for them.

Most people don't have to fight to get cable service and TiVo, but for many of those who do it's more about getting what they're rightly entitled to than getting TiVo per se. That's a more worthwhile cause than six months of free HBO.