OTA signal sharply degraded in Tivo HD (Canada)

[KrackerKross]

I've looked thru the FAQs, searched the threads, and spent an hour on the Tivo support line answering all of the obvious questions before posting this, so please forgive me if the answer is simpler than I can figure out. Actually the Tivo support thing was extremely frustrating - they don't let you talk to the "consultants" anymore, just the call screeners, who in the end don't actually know much. Better off searching forums.

I live in central Toronto, and have a new Toshiba HD television with a big honking 8-bay antenna on the roof. No trouble receiving all local HD (and analog) channels when the coax is plugged straight into the TV.

I've also been a Tivo subscriber for many years (OK, some of those under an assumed US home address), and absolutely love it. Tivo added official support for Canada a few years back, so all of the channel info works just fine now.

I was hoping to finally bring my two passions together - HD and Tivo. And I'm praying that I can finally boot Rogers Cable for good. Canada doesn't support Cable Cards, so OTA is our only shot at an HD Tivo experience.

So I up and bought an upgraded Tivo HD from Weaknees (model TCD652160). Some huge hard drive, so I never have to choose what to delete again.

Went thru the setup beautifully, downloaded station info for everything around here. And yes, the coax is plugged into the right port ("Antenna In"). Same coax that was previously plugged into my TV with all the great reception.

Here's the thing: the reception thru the Tivo is MASSIVELY worse than when I just plug the same coax straight into my TV. Without Tivo, I get at least ten channels in HD (and maybe 20 in regular analog). With Tivo, my analog stations are much weaker, and I get at best one HD channel (9-1, CTV).

When I look at the signal strengths, on channels like 5-1 (CBC) that are generally a no-brainer to get in HD (literally a coat hanger gets this in HD), my $500 Tivo shows a signal strength of about 25% and an intermittent pixellated picture.

Here's the Tivo diagnostic info with tuner 0 on 5-1 and tuner 1 on 57-1, both easy to receive without a Tivo:

Tuner: 0
Channel: 5-1
Frequency: 509000 KHz
Modulation: 8-VSB
Connector Type: RF
Signal Source: Terrestrial
CableCARD Association: None
Signal Strength: (switches between -, 0, 14 and 50)
Signal Lock: Yes (this is sometimes No)
Program Lock: Yes
Search Complete: Yes
SNR: (switches between -, 6dB, and 16 dB)
RS Uncorrected: 936608 (changes up and down and goes to -)
RS Corrected: 4784092 (changes up and down and goes to -)
Resolution Status: -
Pending Tune Status: No tune pending


Tuner: 1
Channel: 57-1
Frequency: 707000 KHz
Modulation: 8-VSB
Connector Type: RF
Signal Source: Terrestrial
CableCARD Association: None
Signal Strength: (switches between -, 0 and 31)
Signal Lock: Yes (this is sometimes No)
Program Lock: No
Search Complete: Yes
SNR: (switches between -, 6dB, and 13 dB)
RS Uncorrected: 2234133 (changes up and down and goes to -)
RS Corrected: 0 (changes to -)
RC State: Available
Current Tuning Status: Tuned: Success
Tune State: In progress
Last Used Channel Plan: Undefined
CCI Byte: N/A
Time Since Tune Start: 617 seconds (counting up)
Time Since Signal Lock: 617 seconds (counting up)
PCR PID: -
Audio PID: -
Video PID: -
Resolution Status: -
Pending Tune Status: No tune pending



Anyone have any ideas?

(update: tried it with the coax unplugged altogether to see if the antenna was really delivering any signal at all, since the behavior is so close to just not having an antenna. Reception much worse with the coax unplugged, as expected)

[TolloNodre]

Have you tried the TiVo with another TV (even a portable)?
Have you tried with another antenna? (even rabbit ears)

I'm guessing, but it sounds like a ground loop of some sort - causing the antenna signal to degrade when connected to the Tivo. Is it a powered antenna? Of course it could be a bad TiVo too. You'll need to try different combos to see if you can determine what it is...

[ThAbtO]

I think the signals are too weak for the Tivo to pick up. It needs more than 70% to be received by Tivo. Try to get an amplifier for the antenna.

[KEYSGATE]

I would think it is definitely a box problem. I have the same set up here in Detroit and it works beautifully. I had to go through a few box's to get one that worked (refurbished). I would call the people that you bought it from to get another box. You get the same signal from antenna to TV vs antenna to Tivo to TV.

[Len McRiddles]

Sounds like a bad box to me.

[aaronwt]

I think the signals are too weak for the Tivo to pick up. It needs more than 70% to be received by Tivo. Try to get an amplifier for the antenna.


I get a rock solid signal with my TiVos as long as the signal is 55 or higher.

[KrackerKross]

Wow. This community is really impressive!

OK, so here's my experimental plan for tonite (or as soon as I can clear the time):

1) Old-fashioned antenna, Tivo HD in downstairs Toshiba HDTV

2) Tivo HD upstairs with small Samsung HDTV (this TV is closer to the rooftop antenna and gets stronger signal)

3) Existing antenna with a signal amplifier before the Tivo HD on the downstairs Toshiba HDTV

I'd like to avoid trying to exchange Tivo units - Weaknees is a mail-order operation and I don't have the original box any longer (long story, but it's a Canadian customs thing)

[kb7oeb]

I notice little difference between my tv tuner and my tivo be it analog or digital signal. You could try connecting the antenna cable to the Cable In port. When you do a channel scan it should find any analog channels in the 2-13 range, not all that useful but it may help narrow the problem if analogs look better on the cable port.

If you still have your cable service try connecting the cable line to the antenna port, channels 2-13 should come in and you can see if the signal looks poor. You don't need to channel scan for this, just type in the channel number.

[pgoelz]

FWIW, my TiVo HD gets perfect digital reception in suburban Detroit, 10-15 miles from the transmitters. Signal strength is around 100%. My "antenna" is an ordinary piece of coax with the last 12" of shield stripped off leaving the center conductor exposed. This passes through the wall and is taped to a downspout about 6 feet off the ground. Crude, yes. But our main input is cable and I just wanted a zero cost OTA option.

How far are you from the transmitters?

And as someone esle mentioned, this isn't a powered antenna by any chance? If so, make sure it is powered when it is plugged into the TiVo.

Paul