Samsung EcoGreen 1TB [Text View]

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akitadog

06-28-2009, 03:31 PM

bengalfreak

06-29-2009, 06:18 AM

From what I have read, none of the green drives from any of the manufacturers currently have the guts to drive a DVR. They are just not meant to be working constantly.

Len McRiddles

06-29-2009, 06:22 AM

Scroll down in the first post. There is a list of drives that are compatible for the Tivo HD.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=370784

richsadams

06-30-2009, 02:56 AM

Has anyone tried the SAMSUNG EcoGreen F2 HD103SI 1TB 5400 RPM 32MB Cache SATA on a TiVoHD?

I searched the forum and could not find any info. The reviews in newegg and tom's hardware are pretty decent...

Just wondering whether the performance was adequate for the most demanding usage profile in the TiVoHD, which is presumably recording 2 streams and watching one?

Thanks.I can confirm that the Samsung HD103SI does NOT work as an internal hard drive with the TiVo HD. Full story here (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7342008#post7342008). Samsung's drives of any nature have not faired well with Tivo. Since you have to have 10 posts or more to see text links, here's the HTML link to my post about the Samsung HDD:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7342008#post7342008

BTW, as compared to normal computer operating conditions, TiVo's requirements are very minimal and far from demanding. The maximum "load" would be recording/buffering two HD signals, MRV, downloading IP material and playing back one HD recording. It sounds like a lot, but by comparison to the load computers can put on a hard drive it's fairly light. That's why the OEM drives are 5400 RPM w/2MB of cache. Most any replacement HDD will be able to handle anything TiVo can throw at it but as Len said, be sure to read this sticky thread and view the list of recommended hard drives:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160

richsadams

06-30-2009, 02:57 AM

From what I have read, none of the green drives from any of the manufacturers currently have the guts to drive a DVR. They are just not meant to be working constantly.You should read more. ;) Western Digital's line of GP "green" drives have been doing an excellent job as TiVo hard drive upgrades for a couple of years now. Both the 1TB WD10EVCS and the WD10EVVS are excellent hard drive upgrade solutions for TiVo Series3's as well as TiVo HD's. As noted, a full list of recommended drives can be found by clicking on the link below my sig.

bengalfreak

07-03-2009, 05:34 AM

You should read more. ;) Western Digital's line of GP "green" drives have been doing an excellent job as TiVo hard drive upgrades for a couple of years now.

Those are more expensive drives specifically designed for DVR's. I was referring to the standard Green drives which are much less expensive and thus, more likely to be used for an upgrade.

richsadams

07-03-2009, 06:19 AM

Those are more expensive drives specifically designed for DVR's. I was referring to the standard Green drives which are much less expensive and thus, more likely to be used for an upgrade.The recommended 1TB WD10EVVS AV/GP drive (which works in both TiVo Series3's and TiVo HD's) is less than $97 (http://www.buy.com/prod/western-digital-av-gp-sata-300-external-hard-drive-1tb-7200rpm-serial/q/loc/101/208720180.html) including shipping. The recommended (but discontinued) 1TB AV/GP WD10EVCS can be purchased for less than $96 (http://www.provantage.com/western-digital-wd10evcs~7WNDO005.htm) and also works in both models. The "standard/green" WD10EADS (which works in TiVo HD's) is $89.99 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822136317&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Hard+Drives-_-Western+Digital-_-22136317) with free shipping.

All of these "green" drives as well as several other AV and non-AV hard drives have been used by a large number of TCF members (including yours truly) for a couple of years now.

If you're finding other "green" drives (or 1TB drives of any sort) on the market that are "much less expensive" let us know!

akitadog

07-03-2009, 02:16 PM

Rich - Thanks for the info. Too bad it doesn't work in a TiVo. The EcoGreen can be had for $70. You've saved me several hours of work.

richsadams

07-03-2009, 02:51 PM

Rich - Thanks for the info. Too bad it doesn't work in a TiVo. The EcoGreen can be had for $70. You've saved me several hours of work.Glad to help. I was just curious if it would work or not...dissapointing that it doesn't. I'm not sure what it is about Sammys and TiVo's that won't allow them to play nice, but you live and learn.

I'm a Seagate man from way back, but over the past few years WD has made giant strides in the QC department IMHO. I still have Seagates in various computer applications (and their DB35 DVR drive line is also a good option for TiVo) but the WD's have really proven themselves for a lot of folks here.

akitadog

07-04-2009, 04:23 PM

Just picked up a WD10EAVS from Fry's for $80. This seems to be an OEM model with only 8MB cache. Anybody used this drive in a TiVo? Is the 8MB of cache going to be an issue?

Thanks.

richsadams

07-04-2009, 06:16 PM

Just picked up a WD10EAVS from Fry's for $80. This seems to be an OEM model with only 8MB cache. Anybody used this drive in a TiVo? Is the 8MB of cache going to be an issue?

Thanks.Yes IIRC the WD10EAVS has been successfully used in some TiVo HD's. Also IIRC it exhibits the soft reboot issue in TiVo Series3's and is subsequently not on the recommended drive list.

TiVo OEM drives have 2MB cache and work just fine. Anything much above that is gravy.

keta49

07-11-2009, 12:24 PM

Has anyone tried the SAMSUNG EcoGreen F2 HD103SI 1TB 5400 RPM 32MB Cache SATA on a TiVoHD?

This works just fine in my Series3

richsadams

07-11-2009, 01:35 PM

This works just fine in my Series3Interesting and good to know. I ran out of free time and opted not to try it in our Series3, although now I'm curious.

What method did you use to upgrade exactly? Is a soft reboot an issue; does TiVo fully reboot from the menu restart? AFIAIK we're the only two that have attempted to use this drive. Any other details you could share would be welcome. TIA!

keta49

07-13-2009, 05:38 PM

I used WinMFS beta 9.3f to backup (truncated) the original drive.
Then restored to the EcoGreen drive.

I have successfully restarted the TiVo, from the ...Settings/Restart... menu item.

Budhwood was successful also (thread 408190&highlight=ecogreen)

_____________________
Keith

Series3 w/ SAMSUNG EcoGreen F2 HD103SI 1TB 5400 RPM 32MB Cache

richsadams

07-13-2009, 06:47 PM

jlib

07-14-2009, 12:16 PM

From what I have read, none of the green drives from any of the manufacturers currently have the guts to drive a DVR. They are just not meant to be working constantly.Although certain drives have some reported compatibility issues with certain models of the Series 3 TiVos, there isn't a class of drive that isn't up to the task. All modern drives are meant for constant service. Even 2.5" drives that used to only be found in laptops are used in enterprise servers now. The only difference between a so called AV or DVR drive is the firmware feature set that is installed. They are mechanically identical to their standard siblings.

In fact, the TiVo is such an unchallenging application that there is no advantage in having a hi-performance drive. That just creates excess noise and heat. The slower, detuned drives are best. Since the TiVo uses none of the extra firmware features of a DVR drive (the Series 3 was designed before the advent of the ATA-7 hard drive standards) a non-DVR version of a drive model will have identical performance in this application. The only difference is that the DVR drives have the head seeks already detuned by default, but that is easy enough to do manually on most drives.

Assuming no other incompatibilities (such as soft reboot issue or no AAM capabilities if needed) any drive will work fine. Certain of the low-RPM "green" drives have become de-facto choices for upgraders because of the low noise and heat, history of reliability, and more than adequate performance. Within that group it is best to just shop on capacity and price.

beequick

07-27-2009, 01:17 PM

If NEWEGG.com honors my 2 new 1.5 TB Samsung HD154UI for 159 shipped then one will be going into my TIVOHD to try out and I can give a report on that drive.

I know I can only get 1.1 but I am not sure what drives are in my external 1TB VOX V1 drive. I could do a switch I suppose.....

EDIT:

WOW, my VOX V1 1TB external drive has a WD10EACS.....I guess I will use the WD instead......but I still will try the Samsung on a different TIVO HD that has a suspected bad drive.

Sparty99

07-29-2009, 01:24 PM

beequick

08-03-2009, 12:41 AM

I just upgraded my main drive with the WD10EACS and I am not going to try the SAMSUNGS.

I could just to see if it would work. I have another TIVOHD here with the old drive in it. if I get some spare time I will run it though the gambit. If you did it let me know.

entropy

08-07-2009, 09:48 AM

Grr, now they're $99 each if you buy two. :-(

I would really like to know if this drive works in the Series 3... I know you have an HD but I'm still curious to know if it works. In order to max out a S3, I need a 1.5T drive, and there aren't many of those.

GapGrin

10-06-2009, 06:25 AM

The Samsung HD103SI can indeed be made to work in an HD Tivo. I just finished upgrading my HD with 2 Samsung HD103SI 1TB Drives, for a total of 2 TB, and so far is working like a champ.

Not to say it was quick. But that's because I'm a perfectionist, because I researched the snot out of it on this forum (thank you to ALL who have posted, it was invaluable), and because I didn't have all the right tools when I started.

As a synopsis for anyone who wants to try it (full instructions are at the beginning of this FAQ), I had to download the Samsung utility to change the drive to 1.5Gb mode to get it to be recognized on my SATA adapter, where I also changed the setting to Quiet mode to reduce noise and power consumption. I then used WinMFS to copy from the original WD 160GB to one of the Samsungs, then connected the other Samsung back up and used MFSAdd (from the WinMFS program) to marry the secondary disk. Afterward, I used the Sammy utility to change back to the 3.0 Gbit mode on both drives, and mounted back in the HD box.

Another pitfall is that the PC I was using at first didn't recognize the drives at all on the built-in SATA; this was due to being in 3.0 Gb mode. After finally getting that sorted out at 3am, it turned out the BIOS was too old and couldn't read past 136GB. Grrr. Had to go to work at 7 so got some sleep, went and got an internal SATA card at lunch, and then added to another newer machine to be able to have 2 SATA drives connected at once. The Samsung Utility has an ISO image available to burn to a CD to make a Boot CD. This proved necessary to change the UDMA settings to 1.5Gb. (A good utility for burning the CD is ImgBurn software, open source.)

I used 2 twin drives and converted the second drive to an internal drive, (using the wonderful post by Ckought in post 7348722) together as conjoined twins. What was different than I have seen here, is that I needed to make a bracket to join the drives.

Because the Samsung drives aren't made quite like the WD drives for clearance to turn the second stud in to screw the drives to each other, I fashioned a bracket out of 2 steel shelf brackets (the kind that slide into a track on the wall) which I drilled to create a mounting plate to join the drives. This method, in conjunction with cutting a 6-32 machine screw to about 3/8" to join the drives at the middle, provided more than enough substance to provide a good vibration free mounting. Steel is preferred over Aluminum, which could bend and short out the drives. (Might be a good idea to wrap with a layer or electrical tape just in case.)

If anyone wants to create these types of brackets, the distance between holes across a drive is 3.75", then 0.25" to the next hole, and another 3.75" to the other side of the other drive. So the holes are at 0", 3.75", 4.0", 7.75" from the first hole. If you use 2 brackets (trimmed down with a hacksaw to about 8.25" long each) all you need to do is scribe a line down the center of each one with a utility knife to use as a guide to line the holes up with one another. a 9/64" drill works fine if you are precise with a center punch and drill press, or you may want to use 5/32" if you want some play to work with.

As to the power and drive connections, a SATA extension cable is available from Fry's or online, with a dual output to link the 2 together. Standard SATA cables connect the data from the drives to the Motherboard (try to remember to keep the parent drive on that original internal connection, and the expansion drive on the external connection). Disconnect the eSATA cable from the back panel and use that for the 2nd drive. (For a full and excellent writeup by a previous author, please see message #3094 in post 7348722 as referenced above.)

I hope this helps for anyone interested in using the Samsung green drives. I now have a 2TB fully internal HD Tivo with 318 HD hours reported or 2777 SD hours. I'll keep you posted in case there are any problems.

drey

10-07-2009, 01:32 PM

I have used Samsung HD103SI for both TiVo HD and TiVo S3 upgrades, not a single problem on my end here.

FlipperJ

10-08-2009, 09:45 AM

I'm in the middle of a upgrade: swapping out 1 tB drive for a 1.5 tB then pairing that to another 1 tB drive. I'd like them to live inside the unit - is this accomplished by splitting the single power connector? (I get the Sata connections). I have a couple of ways to accomplish that but wanted to be sure that the TiVo HD's power supply could handle the load. It seems like it should but you never know.

Anybody? GapGrin?

Thanks!

GapGrin

10-09-2009, 12:14 AM

Hey FlipperJ, yes there's a cable splitter that will have a single male and one end and split to 2 females on the other. I used one manufactured by Link Depot from Fry's, part number POW-SATA-EXT. It is a 16" SATA power extension. Don't think you need the full 16" of there is a shorter one. You will need to nip one of the guide tangs off of the male end of the connector to get it to fit into the existing Tivo SATA connector, a pair of diagonal nippers works fine. You can see what I used at outletpc.com, search for C8174 or go to c8174.html .

As far as supporting the juice, I haven't seen any ill effects, and since the eco drives run less power (especially on quiet mode), it should be well within spec. The WD I took out showed between 6.2W idle and 8.0W seeking. The Samsung is 4.4W and 5.6 on idle and seek, respectively, so 2 Sammies on full seek are only 27% higher or so than the original on highest power (and in a realistic situation, you're more likely to be doing a r/w cycle simultaneously for any duration, or both be idle.)

Power dissipated is power consumed from the power supply, so that should be a good indication. One more thing to think about is that it has enough juice to cover 2 USB ports--which could potentially draw a lot of power off that PS--as well as 2 cablecards. And in order to get an economy of scale, they would probably be manufacturing a PS that could accommodate 2 internal drives out of the factory in the future.

So I think it pretty safe to figure that they have supplied a PS that can more than handle the load.

FlipperJ

10-09-2009, 09:28 AM

Thanks for the confirmation. I went through the same kind of logic in my head and came to the conclusion that Tivo wouldn't spec their power supply so low that the second drive would draw more than it could handle. I hadn't thought about the USB power and cablecards but those play into that theory.

I may have to try the drives you used. I'm using, because they were easy to come by, a 1.5 and 1.0 TB Seagate Barracuda drive. The 1.5 is the main drive and is working fine. The second drive, the 1 TB, is hooked into the eSata port with a standard Sata cable. I created power by taking a power connector from an old power supply and tapping into the existing wiring. The drives are secured by turning them sideways from the OEM position. I screwed nylon connectors through the standard mounting sockets and using rubber pads to cushion them in strategic points I tied the drives down separately with plastic ties. I don't think I would ship the unit like this but they're pretty secure and vibration shouldn't be a problem.

Of course Tivo doesn't like my second drive. I married the second unit using WinMFS, at least I thought I did, but when Tivo started up I was asked to activate the external drive and then warned that the drive wasn't supported. I may try the "marrying" process again or I'll have to find another drive that will be supported.

So currently I have one drive with 199 HD hours capacity, which isn't bad. I can't remember what my capacity was before, maybe 160 HD hours. I had already swapped out the original drive with a Hitachi 1 TB when they came out. But I wanted that second drive - with everybody in my family getting their shows in HD Tivo is over-writing episodes before I get to see them.

I may have to go with your hard drive selection to get this working, GapGrin. Thanks for the response!

Flipper

GapGrin

10-10-2009, 01:30 PM

FlipperJ, glad to pass on what I've learned. Your setup sounds fine. I started down that path myself, but when I saw the "screw-the-drive-together" mounting, it was the easiest I could muster in short order. But I wouldn't necessarily redo yours, sounds like a great solution.

... The 1.5 is the main drive and is working fine. ...
Of course Tivo doesn't like my second drive. I married the second unit using WinMFS, at least I thought I did, but when Tivo started up I was asked to activate the external drive and then warned that the drive wasn't supported. I may try the "marrying" process again or I'll have to find another drive that will be supported.

I assume you upgraded by cloning your first drive and are now marrying to that cloned drive. If you have cloned a clone, I have read here that it will cause problems adding a second drive.

I don't know the criteria that Tivo uses to determine supported or unsupported. Sine my drive had been previous reported by fellow esteemed forum users as unsupported, then I believe them that they got that message. I was very careful to make sure my drives matched, that they were in S.M.A.R.T. mode, that they were put into low-power quiet mode, and that, after doing the upgrade, I notched them back up to the higher UDMA more of 3.0Gb/s (I had to knock down to 1.5 to get my system to recognize). I also used the absolute last beta version of WinMFS, 9.3f.

I'm sure that you've come to the realization that if you swap out your primary again, to ensure success you may need to copy down all of your recorded material, re-hook up the source to upgrade to the latest software version, and then use the original as the source drive for upgrading to a new drive. You could probably risk it by just copying clone to clone, but set your expectations accordingly if that doesn't work.

Good luck to you!

-GG

richsadams

10-10-2009, 02:54 PM

I don't know the criteria that Tivo uses to determine supported or unsupported. You guys are some real pioneers! (Reminds me of the good old Series1 upgrades and hacks days.)

BTW the only drives supported by TiVo are those that came inside TiVo originally and the Western Digital 500GB and 1TB My DVR Expanders. That's it.

Thanks for posting and keep up the great work. :up:

FlipperJ

10-12-2009, 02:53 PM

True Rich, there's a distinction between what is "supported" in the compatibility sense and "supported" in the "officially recognized and sanction by TiVo Inc." sense. GG was referring to the former of course!

I've been a TiVo owner since they came out; at the time I thought a hard drive based recorder would kill the VCR if someone would invent one. Since then I've tried virtually every hack, short of stealing service of course, and every expansion or enhancement from Series 1 to Series 2 to my HD(s). I also built a MythTV box, but I of course love my TiVos.

But the real pioneers are the guys out there that figure out how to perform these upgrades and hacks, like the guys responsible for WinMFS and similar tools. They rock. I also have benefited from those who post their problems and solutions; it's been a great community over these 7+ years.

GG - I'd forgotten about the clone of a clone problem. So you're saying if I want a second drive I'll need to put in the original TiVo drive, let TiVo update it to the latest software revision, take it out again, "bless" the second drive in WinMFS and then install it back into my Tivo with the new cloned 1st drive. Did I just skip a step? Will new 'Clone Disk One' play nice with new add-on 'Disk Two'?

Sounds like a lot of work. Maybe 1.2TB is sufficient... :)

Flipper

richsadams

10-12-2009, 03:01 PM

True Rich, there's a distinction between what is "supported" in the compatibility sense and "supported" in the "officially recognized and sanction by TiVo Inc." sense. GG was referring to the former of course!

I've been a TiVo owner since they came out; at the time I thought a hard drive based recorder would kill the VCR if someone would invent one. Since then I've tried virtually every hack, short of stealing service of course, and every expansion or enhancement from Series 1 to Series 2 to my HD(s). I also built a MythTV box, but I of course love my TiVos.

But the real pioneers are the guys out there that figure out how to perform these upgrades and hacks, like the guys responsible for WinMFS and similar tools. They rock. I also have benefited from those who post their problems and solutions; it's been a great community over these 7+ years.
FlipperGot it...thought the OP was asking about the former. :o

Yep, those days were a lot of fun...especially those late night, wee morning hours trying to enter the right code to get things working. I really do NOT miss that. ;) Agreed, the true heroes are Spike (MFSLive) and others that blaze those trails. :up:

GapGrin

10-16-2009, 09:19 PM

Hey Rich, I meant to say earlier, no lack of due respect intended by getting it to work as a neophyte. :) I'm just a tenacious newbie to the Tivo scene, but a lifelong hacker with other media, so trying to transfer skills and share what I learn. Thanks for the encouragement, though with all necessary modesty, maybe when I ever get to 5000 posts, I'll just start to scratch the surface at being pioneering! (I'm in your shadow, especially at sunset (when I might see your house across the river) ;) Many thanks for all of the countless hours you and others have put into this, I wouldn't have succeeded without following you and your wealth of informative posts.:up::up::up:

So you're saying if I want a second drive I'll need to put in the original TiVo drive, let TiVo update it to the latest software revision, take it out again, "bless" the second drive in WinMFS and then install it back into my Tivo with the new cloned 1st drive. Did I just skip a step? Will new 'Clone Disk One' play nice with new add-on 'Disk Two'?

I think that's the likely path to success, but I would defer to any more experienced upgraders who have gone through the permutations. I had the original drive, and mine worked by upgrading all in one shot to the 2 bigger drives. The funkiness was switching the drive UDMA modes back and forth from 1.5 to 3.0 Gb/s, just to be able to manipulate them on the PC, so it seems like the Tivo at minimum supports the higher UDMA mode if it doesn't outright require it. (I didn't leave them on the lower throughput to experiment.) My colleagues at work are much more the Linux hackers to dig into the guts of the code than I am, so maybe it was just myopic luck on my part....

Sounds like a lot of work. Maybe 1.2TB is sufficient... :)

Yeah well FlipperJ, once you've tasted the forbidden fruit, it's hard to get back into the garden. It is a bit of work indeed, though I can see you sitting back with a beer and smile sometime in the future looking at 308 HD hrs on your settings screen. ;)

Besides, I think it won't be long until those 1TB drives are $50 each, so it turns into a mere $100 exercise just for grins and giggles (and you can always use the drives in your PC to transfer shows from the Tivo). You can always hook that power extension cable and the old drive up to your unit (without unbolting your current drive) just to get the original upgraded to latest software, then hook your current setup back in while you play with the new drives.

I suspect curiosity will get the better of you soon enough. Now I start to fiddle with my Series 2!

Cheers,
--GG

richsadams

10-17-2009, 01:38 AM

Hey Rich, <snip>
Ah shucks [kicking instep]. Thanks for the kind words. Soooo many folks here have given me advice, help, encouragement, a good tongue lashing now and then...it's just fun to give back whenever I can.

Keep up the pioneering work! :up: