HD picture doesn't fit on TV screen

[Tek34]

My HD picture doesn't seem to fit my widescreen TV screen outputted from my Series 3 HD XL. This is most prominent when viewing the new Beta Search as the left menu list is almost entirely off the left side of my TV screen and I can't read 4/5th of these menu descriptions. When a program displays graphics, text, or a scrolling bar near the edges of the screen they are often cut off at the edges. It seems similar to when I select the <Zoom> aspect mode for SD programs, but for HD the aspect setting doesn't have any effect on the picture screen.

None of the format/aspect settings on the television itself seems to affect the picture output from my Series 3. I can use my televisions format/aspect settings to better manipulate the picture size coming from my Series 2 Tivo but this is SD only.

I have tried all kinds of setting changes on my RCA HD Monitor with none of them affecting the Series 3 output. My HD XL video output settings are set to 1080i Hybrid as my TV is designed to display either 480p or 1080i HDTV (but not 720p), through its HDMI to DVI connector.

Is there any other setup and/or setting I can try changes that could fix or adjust my HD picture size?

[solutionsetc]

Sounds as though your TV is suffering from a bit too much overscan. Many TVs overscan, some worse than others.

Settings to adjust overscan are rarely anywhere else than the service menu. Some digital TVs will allow centering, but not adjusting the amount of overscan. Others have a no overscan mode. It really depends on the type of TV.

You might try searching your TV model on AVSForum.com to see if there is any discussion (service menu entry, codes). But be careful... mucking around in a service menu without knowing what your changing can render your TV non-functional.

[CrispyCritter]

Nope, there's really nothing you can do on the TiVo to get that space back. It's a function of your TV; older TVs have substantial overscan and don't show the entire transmitted picture. Almost all LCD and plasma TVs have no overscan; it's a needed feature on only CRTs. There may be hidden adjustment modes on your TV to lessen the overscan, though you may have to find a service manual for your TV to discover it.

Your overscan sounds bad enough so that your TV may be malfunctioning, and need adjustments.

I figure I lose over 15% of the picture on my 57" widescreen Hitachi CRT because of overscan. Most older TV shows and movies have overscan figured into their shots and menus so nothing ever important happens around the edges. Evidently TiVo decided there were now few enough affected TVs so they didn't want to lose that 15-20% of the HD Beta Search screen. It's annoying at times, but not nearly as annoying as those subtitled shows and movies that ignore overscan - I often can't even see the top of the subtitles, much less read them! On Beta Search, I can't see the leftmost letter I type into the search box, but can see everything else. As I said, annoying but not critical.

[oViTynoT]

That said, it does seem like TiVo's interface assumes very low (or no) overscan...

I don't care, because all my TV's are flat panels..., but I can see how some new-to-TiVo but older-monitors would care and be frustrated...

Hmmm...

[jlb]

......This is most prominent when viewing the new Beta Search as the left menu list is almost entirely off the left side of my TV screen and I can't read 4/5th of these menu descriptions.......

This may be a stupid question, but have you tried pressing the "aspect" button on your TiVo remote?

Given the amount that you say is off the screen, it sounds less like an overscan issue and more that you are zoomed in somehow.


http://assets.gearlive.com/blogimages/tivo3remotetop.jpg

[bkdtv]

My HD picture doesn't seem to fit my widescreen TV screen outputted from my Series 3 HD XL. This is most prominent when viewing the new Beta Search as the left menu list is almost entirely off the left side of my TV screen and I can't read 4/5th of these menu descriptions. When a program displays graphics, text, or a scrolling bar near the edges of the screen they are often cut off at the edges. It seems similar to when I select the <Zoom> aspect mode for SD programs, but for HD the aspect setting doesn't have any effect on the picture screen.Are you certain you don't have some sort of zoom mode enabled on your TV (not the TiVo)? Here's how TiVo Search looks on my screen:

Youtube: TiVo Search (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iPirnN_z9Cw&fmt=22)

That said, it does seem like TiVo's interface assumes very low (or no) overscan...

I don't care, because all my TV's are flat panels..., but I can see how some new-to-TiVo but older-monitors would care and be frustrated...TiVo assumes a significant amount of overscan. I believe their safe area is 10% (5% per side). That's double the 5% (2.5% per side) on some other popular HTPC media center applications.

[CrispyCritter]

TiVo assumes a significant amount of overscan. I believe their safe area is 10% (5% per side). That's double the 5% (2.5% per side) on some other popular HTPC media center applications.
TiVo assumes a significant amount of overscan for most of the menus. They do not for Beta Search. To a lesser extent, they also do not allow enough for the YouTube menus. They are nowhere near 5% per side on the current Beta Search (I've measured).

As I said, that's not much of a problem because Beta Search assumes an HD TV and there are few HD TVs with anywhere near 5% overlap. But it is a minor annoyance for us who have one!

[bkdtv]

TiVo assumes a significant amount of overscan for most of the menus.TiVo menus --- outside of Youtube and TiVo Search -- are 4:3 with some stretching, so they won't come close to filling a 16:9 screen.

They do not for Beta Search. To a lesser extent, they also do not allow enough for the YouTube menus. They are nowhere near 5% per side on the current Beta Search (I've measured).
You're correct; my mistake.

Below is the TiVo's 1280x720 output scaled to 853x480. There are 43-44 pixels of safe area on the right and left, which works out to 7% horizontal overscan. There are 23 pixels of safe area on the top and bottom, which works out to ~6% vertical overscan.

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm314/ilovehdtv/Other/TiVo/tivosearch.jpg

[CrispyCritter]

You're correct; my mistake.

Below is the TiVo's 1280x720 output scaled to 853x480. There are 43-44 pixels of safe area on the right and left, which works out to 7% horizontal overscan. There are 23 pixels of safe area on the top and bottom, which works out to ~6% vertical overscan.

Thanks for checking. And thanks for the videos - they are very nice!

Yes, using old fashioned technology:) on my CRT, if I type in two 'I's in the search box, I can just see part of the second 'I'. On my LCD, which I assume (without having verified) has no overscan, I physically measure that spot as occurring at about 3% of the total picture width. On my CRT, the top line of icons is just barely cropped (no visible borders).

[Tek34]

Thanks for everyones responses.
The Aspect button on the Tivo and TV remotes have no affect on my HD screen or the beta search screen. I'm subscribing to the overscan suggestions as the culprit. I can't find any "zoom" settings on the TV itself and this issue is only from output from the series 3. Any other output sources including my Series 2, DVD, comcast dvr, etc. either don't seem to have this issue and/or are re-sizable using alternate means.

I was able to adjust the horizontal setting from the TV menu from its midpoint to its far right which allows all but the left most letter of the beta search menu to show. This seems to just about center that screen at least as best as possible, with about 5-10% of the screen missing on all four sides (based on the screen shot above). It would be nice if the Tivo itself had a setting to shrink (un-zoom?) the whole screen.

I have yet to find any information on an overscan toggle or control setting from a service menu for an RCA R52WM24 TV.