Double talk and semantics with TIVO account.

[loueloui]

First, let me say that I love/hate relationship with my Tivo. I like not having to sit through mind-numbing commercials while watching my favorite programs. Also. the time shifting feature is something I don't know how I ever got along without. The device itself is fantastic. The problem is with the company.

I recently purchased a TIVO HD from a retails store. Having done some research I was previously informed by customer service that I would be able to transfer my service from my older S2 to the new HD. I also asked if I would then be eligible for the 3 free months. They said yes.


Long story short, when I went to transfer service, I was informed that no, I would not be getting the 3 extra months, period. Even though I felt that had been misled, I even offered to meet them half way by extending my existing contract to another full year. Still, no. I really feel like they have no interest in anything other than making the most money possible.


I called back and then finally broke down and said okay, I'll activate both. Do I get my discount now? Yes, but they will charge me $12.95 per month for the extra box, instead of $9.95. So after a full year of service I would be ahead a whole $2.85. Thanks a lot TIVO! I could almost buy a movie for that price. After which I would still be obligated to pay the higher rate.



One analogy I like to use is a cell phone. They are handy devices to have, and you would be hard pressed to get along without them, but does anyone like dealing with Sprint, or AT&T?


Their doubletalk and specious offers are ridiculous. I feel like I need a lawyer on the phone with me when I call about my account.

Hey Tivo, your punitive contracts and draconian service practices will not earn you more business, only derision. You should try putting as much effort into supporting your devicea as you do building them.

[scandia101]

The problem is that you blindly believed the CSR or you heard what you wanted to hear and the csr actually gave you the correct information, or you gave the CSR bad information and after they incorrectly deciphered it, they gave information that was correct for what they think they heard, but not for what you think you said.

I'm sure you knew that your existing account was not eligible for three free months and the deal is that you get 3 free months with a new activation at full price. Why would you think that changing the TSN would change anything about your account? It's still the same old account.

I'd lay the blame equally between you and Tivo.

[CraigHB]

Conversely, I love my cable company (Charter). They called me about something or another and the the person on the phone said, oh, I can take $20 off your bill for a year. I was already getting a big discount on a bundle package so now I'm getting HD digital cable with cable cards, two separate phone lines, and 10/1M internet for an unbelievable $130 a month. I think that's amazing. I'm saving $120 a month over those services when I had DSL. And, the internet connection is 4 times faster. I won't be switching providers any time soon.

It just goes to show you, there are big companies that will bend over backwards to get and keep customers. I don't know that TiVo could be considered a big company, but the good will customer service like that creates is invaluable, at least it is for me.

[bkdtv]

If you read the fine print on the "free" three-month offer, you'd have seen that it commits you to a year of service at $12.95/mo. This free offer is really intended for new customers, not existing subscribers; it is meant for new service activations.

If you want to transfer service from an old TiVo to a new one, you need to login to Tivo.com and choose "Change service number." That allows you to maintain your existing rate. There are no promotions or "free months" available when you transfer service from one TiVo to another.

TiVo loses money when you transfer service, because the hardware is sold at a loss and they aren't gaining an extra subscription when you transfer.

[RonDawg]

Conversely, I love my cable company (Charter). They called me about something or another and the the person on the phone said, oh, I can take $20 off your bill for a year. I was already getting a big discount on a bundle package so now I'm getting HD digital cable with cable cards, two separate phone lines, and 10/1M internet for an unbelievable $130 a month. I think that's amazing. I'm saving $120 a month over those services when I had DSL. And, the internet connection is 4 times faster. I won't be switching providers any time soon.

It just goes to show you, there are big companies that will bend over backwards to get and keep customers. I don't know that TiVo could be considered a big company, but the good will customer service like that creates is invaluable, at least it is for me.

Not TiVo related, but did you ask Charter would your cost would be after the special pricing is over?

I did, and I was quite astonished to hear what it was. So astonished that I'll continue put up with 1.5/384 DSL.

[MichaelK]

Not TiVo related, but did you ask Charter would your cost would be after the special pricing is over?

I did, and I was quite astonished to hear what it was. So astonished that I'll continue put up with 1.5/384 DSL.

I had similar concerns with comcast but i figured i'd do the year and save 5-600 and then cross that bridge when i get to it.

not sure if charter is like comcast but i assume all the cable co's are similar.

Basically with comcast you jut switch to whatever deal they have at the time and you never wind up paying the "retail" price. In fact with comcast they call you incessantly for 4-6 weeks before to make sure you get put on whatever plan they have at that time. And still comcast never asks for a committment. This is night the nightmare evil cable empire that i remember from the early 1990's when i bailed and went to satellite.

I'm now on my 3rd discount plan with comcast. The 2nd and 3rd both in fact are like 10-15 bucks more then the initial super chear deal i got but still super cheap plus 15 bucks is very cheap.

it might just be that there's FIOS in my general area (not in my town though)- so maybe that's what keeps them in line- but i'm amazed at how cheap triple play is.

[MichaelK]

boy isn't it scary when customers of 2 different cable company's are saying "boy if tivo customer service could just be as good as cable..."

that's really telling - no?

What service provider is reviled more then cable? I guess used care dealers but beyond that- anyone? So where's that place tivo- just above car dealers?

[RonDawg]

Basically with comcast you jut switch to whatever deal they have at the time and you never wind up paying the "retail" price. In fact with comcast they call you incessantly for 4-6 weeks before to make sure you get put on whatever plan they have at that time. And still comcast never asks for a committment. This is night the nightmare evil cable empire that i remember from the early 1990's when i bailed and went to satellite.

That's not the way it is with Charter. Once the promotional period is up, your rate gets jacked up to whatever the going retail rate is.

In my case, Charter HD service + AT&T landline + AT&T DSL 1.5/384 is about $130 month including taxes. Charter's "special" would give me the same price, but include 3/768 internet and unlimited nationwide calling. But when I asked how much it would be after the promotion was over, it was almost $200/month. No thanks.

[Resist]

I love my cable company (Charter).Then you must be Charter's only fan. Charter has jacked us around so many times it isn't even funny. Between cable outages and price increases, we are about ready to drop them. If it were not for my Tivo I would have done this a long time ago.

[Crrink]

That's not the way it is with Charter. Once the promotional period is up, your rate gets jacked up to whatever the going retail rate is.

In my case, Charter HD service + AT&T landline + AT&T DSL 1.5/384 is about $130 month including taxes. Charter's "special" would give me the same price, but include 3/768 internet and unlimited nationwide calling. But when I asked how much it would be after the promotion was over, it was almost $200/month. No thanks.
I don't know where you live, but we have Charter here in CA (the Malibu feed, though we don't live in Malibu), and we're able to switch to a new discounted plan every six months.
It's true they don't bother to remind you that your bill is about to skyrocket, but once I see the new rate I call and get put on a new plan. Usually it's pretty easy. Maybe the same thing will work in your area.

[RonDawg]

I don't know where you live, but we have Charter here in CA (the Malibu feed, though we don't live in Malibu), and we're able to switch to a new discounted plan every six months.

It's true they don't bother to remind you that your bill is about to skyrocket, but once I see the new rate I call and get put on a new plan. Usually it's pretty easy. Maybe the same thing will work in your area.

I CAN do the same thing, but to have to do so every six months is a PITA, when I'm already paying less with my current non-discounted plans.

[moonscape]

I'm now on my 3rd discount plan with comcast. The 2nd and 3rd both in fact are like 10-15 bucks more then the initial super chear deal i got but still super cheap plus 15 bucks is very cheap.

it might just be that there's FIOS in my general area (not in my town though)- so maybe that's what keeps them in line- but i'm amazed at how cheap triple play is.

they don't do the same in every market - you're right about FIOS keeping them in line. we don't have that option and comcast last time didn't budge for me. sometimes i'm away for over 3 months, and then i cancel everything and get the discount as a new customer. but now my year is up in a month and i'll have to wrangle with them again. maybe i'll get somewhere this time but am not optimistic.

[MichaelK]

they don't do the same in every market - you're right about FIOS keeping them in line. we don't have that option and comcast last time didn't budge for me. sometimes i'm away for over 3 months, and then i cancel everything and get the discount as a new customer. but now my year is up in a month and i'll have to wrangle with them again. maybe i'll get somewhere this time but am not optimistic.

thank goodness for fios then... IN fact my intial "12-month" 99 dollar plan lasted 20 months before they bothed to call me and switch!

[CraigHB]

I did ask them about the rates when the discount period was up and yes, it would be arond $200 a month after a year. However, both times I talked to customer service about my rates, they said to give them a call when the plan expires they'll put me on a new discount plan.

I wasn't particulary thrilled with my cable provider when I moved to my current location in 2000. Same complaints as others have mentioned. I went to satellite for a time with a DirecTiVo which I was happy with until Murdoch got a hold of DTV. He jacked the rates and dropped the TiVo partnership. To get HD TiVo, I had to go with a Series 3 and cable. I feel my cable company has come a long way since then. The reliablility is pretty flawless now. I can't remember the last time I had an outage. Also, customer service has greatly improved. They always pick up right away when I need to talk to someone and they're always willing to go the distance for me. Who would have thought?

[ZeoTiVo]

[QUOTE=MichaelK;7248384]boy isn't it scary when customers of 2 different cable company's are saying "boy if tivo customer service could just be as good as cable..."

that's really telling - no?/QUOTE]

no - it is the amount of money being sent in that is being discussed - not how well they did a cable card install or showed up exactly at the time promise etc..

If we were all sending in 25$ a month to TiVo per DVR, and the sub total numbers stayed the same, then I imagine the policies would not be anywhere near as tight.

As it is TiVo is barely making a profit this year and obviously needs all the margin it has. TiVo also needs to add subscribers so they offer deals but those deals are, as pointed out, to add subscribers.

The OP should have called in and asked what Deal TiVo might offer to upgrade his hardware to a series 3 model. TiVo see revenue in that as well and then the OP would be in the right kind of deal versus getting fouled up in red tape since TiVo billing is not geared around upgrading hardware via free months of service.

[MichaelK]

no - it is the amount of money being sent in that is being discussed - not how well they did a cable card install or showed up exactly at the time promise etc..

If we were all sending in 25$ a month to TiVo per DVR, and the sub total numbers stayed the same, then I imagine the policies would not be anywhere near as tight.

As it is TiVo is barely making a profit this year and obviously needs all the margin it has. TiVo also needs to add subscribers so they offer deals but those deals are, as pointed out, to add subscribers.

The OP should have called in and asked what Deal TiVo might offer to upgrade his hardware to a series 3 model. TiVo see revenue in that as well and then the OP would be in the right kind of deal versus getting fouled up in red tape since TiVo billing is not geared around upgrading hardware via free months of service.

actually, maybe i didn't give the best example- but my bigger point is that Tivo's system of renting CSR's sucks, the poor people answering the phone dont know much (perhaps the company tivo hires just doesn't train them well?), they dont seem to have too much latitude to do anything off script, and they dont seem to have the ability to escalate quickly and cleanly to a real tivo employee that can help people when the rent a csr's reach the limits of their ability or knowledge.

The Op's example I'm actually not sure tivo did anything wrong (well the rent a csr he first talked to apparently led him to beleive he should expect to get the discount)- but in general the people you get on the phone dont know a thing and can't really help you at all.

Surprisingly when I call comcast either that person helps me (more times than not) or they instantly transfer me to someone that can. The first level CSR's actually can give you credits for pretty much anything without asking permission (again not saying the OP was "owed" anything- just speaking in general). And they know how to get a human on the line from my system that can quickly do whatever needs to be done if I am having weird cablecard issues of the like.

[CrispyCritter]

actually, maybe i didn't give the best example- but my bigger point is that Tivo's system of renting CSR's sucks, the poor people answering the phone dont know much (perhaps the company tivo hires just doesn't train them well?), they dont seem to have too much latitude to do anything off script, and they dont seem to have the ability to escalate quickly and cleanly to a real tivo employee that can help people when the rent a csr's reach the limits of their ability or knowledge.

The Op's example I'm actually not sure tivo did anything wrong (well the rent a csr he first talked to apparently led him to beleive he should expect to get the discount)- but in general the people you get on the phone dont know a thing and can't really help you at all.

Surprisingly when I call comcast either that person helps me (more times than not) or they instantly transfer me to someone that can. The first level CSR's actually can give you credits for pretty much anything without asking permission (again not saying the OP was "owed" anything- just speaking in general). And they know how to get a human on the line from my system that can quickly do whatever needs to be done if I am having weird cablecard issues of the like.
My experience is to the contrary. I've probably had 30 calls to each to TiVo and Comcast in the past 10 years (I've been responsible for about 15 TiVos between my family and friends in this time period). For Comcast, I've had a half-dozen actively bad calls, and another half-dozen wasted calls, with the rest successful to some extent. For TiVo, I haven't had any actively bad calls, and 2 or 3 wasted calls (problems with TiVos under warranty for which I know their advice won't fix the problem, but I accept that I have to try it for a couple of days). All the rest have been good.

I find it quite convincing that in this TiVo forum, where people go to complain about TiVo CSRs, I've read many more complaints about Comcast CSRs than TiVo CSRs. TiVo CSRs make mistakes, but not nearly the level of Comcast. Just try reading some of the Comcast cablecard threads!

[MichaelK]

My experience is to the contrary. I've probably had 30 calls to each to TiVo and Comcast in the past 10 years (I've been responsible for about 15 TiVos between my family and friends in this time period). For Comcast, I've had a half-dozen actively bad calls, and another half-dozen wasted calls, with the rest successful to some extent. For TiVo, I haven't had any actively bad calls, and 2 or 3 wasted calls (problems with TiVos under warranty for which I know their advice won't fix the problem, but I accept that I have to try it for a couple of days). All the rest have been good.

I find it quite convincing that in this TiVo forum, where people go to complain about TiVo CSRs, I've read many more complaints about Comcast CSRs than TiVo CSRs. TiVo CSRs make mistakes, but not nearly the level of Comcast. Just try reading some of the Comcast cablecard threads!


how about this- Tivo's CSR's shouldn't even be in the same discussion as cable company csr's- laughing?

But for the sake of argument, lets ignore comcast or cable becasue it's clearly a crapshoot and for some a hot button issue. Lets stick to tivo:

Honestly I've had very little need to ever call tivo. I think all of twice in the past 7 years with umpteen boxes I've needed to speak to a human. Once for a bad remote that came with me first S3 (which they promptly and easily mailed a free replacement) and the second time just a few weeks ago when me credit card expired and the online page didn't work. Again It was perfect.

Actually make that 3 times- when the S3's initially were ordered there was some confusion about if certain orders took or not and the phone CSR's were in fact utterly clueless becasue they had no ability to get into Tivo's system to see what was going on. They got once a day update from tivo that they could go off of if I'm remembering correctly. So that's a fine example of the rental CSR's not being connected to tivo.

Also there are plenty of stories here about about people getting poor info or wrong info from tivo phone csr's. There's stpories all over about that. There shouldn't be. Some times the mis-information is so bad that pony or stephen or someone pops in to ask if the poster got the CSR's name so they can 'retrain' that individual. So it happens.

I just think when you are a small company then you need to have even better customer service then the norm. Not sure that's going on.

[CrispyCritter]

I just think when you are a small company then you need to have even better customer service then the norm. Not sure that's going on.
But why do you think that TiVo customer service is below the norm?

Make two lists of general consumer companies that you have some idea of their general level of customer service; one list with those better than TiVo and one list with those that are worse. Which is longer? There's no contest with my lists. Who's on your 'better' list?

There's no question that TiVo and TiVo CSRs make mistakes. They are not perfect. But no general consumer company is perfect; they all make mistakes. They also all have instances of CSRs going far beyond the call of duty (especially TiVo, IMO, but even the cable companies!). Once you get big enough so that the service rep can no longer pick up the phone and call the president of the company with a question, then you're going to have misunderstandings and mistakes.

Another reason for my belief in TiVo's quality is even with the very large, active community here, a good portion of the real TiVo CSR mistakes come from new members who specifically search out the forum to complain (eg, the current 6 month netflix complaint). There's a whole lot of active members here with lots of TiVo support interactions who do not have serious complaints.

[MichaelK]

But why do you think that TiVo customer service is below the norm?

Make two lists of general consumer companies that you have some idea of their general level of customer service; one list with those better than TiVo and one list with those that are worse. Which is longer? There's no contest with my lists. Who's on your 'better' list?

There's no question that TiVo and TiVo CSRs make mistakes. They are not perfect. But no general consumer company is perfect; they all make mistakes. They also all have instances of CSRs going far beyond the call of duty (especially TiVo, IMO, but even the cable companies!). Once you get big enough so that the service rep can no longer pick up the phone and call the president of the company with a question, then you're going to have misunderstandings and mistakes.

Another reason for my belief in TiVo's quality is even with the very large, active community here, a good portion of the real TiVo CSR mistakes come from new members who specifically search out the forum to complain (eg, the current 6 month netflix complaint). There's a whole lot of active members here with lots of TiVo support interactions who do not have serious complaints.


the only technology company's i can think of really dealing with are verizon, directv, comcast, and tivo. Verizon, Directv, and comcast's CSR's have the ability to fix problems with money/billing or technology directly. And if they can't they generally have the ability to excalate you in real time. True ALL company's are full of confused csr's that spout misinformation. But I would expect Tivo to have a smaller more tightly managed group so they could be better trainined and less likley to spout misinformation.

What examples of Tivo PHONE CSR's going out of their way do you have- I'm curious? I'll I've ever heard of (and as you mention we only here the worst) are the phone people saying a lot of things like "that's all I am authorized to do" as in they only have tivo's permission to credit X dollars or less and beyond that they need to get back to you in a few days. The one out of the ordinary experience i had with them was with the series 3 order confusion- and as I wrote above the phone CSR's had no real time information and no ability to get an answer from a real Tivo employee in a timely manner.


I guess tivo CSR's might just stink as badly as anyone elses but again- my humble opinion is they should be markedly better than anyone around since they are smaller and having a harder time making money.