New T.V./Now I Hate My Tivo

[jilter]

The Tivo (Series 2) was always my favorite thing in the house.
I finally bit the bullet and bought a new LCD for the bedtroom and needless to say- the picture is terrible from the Tivo on the new T.V. I knew this would happen. I have saved content on my Tivo that will be hard to duplicate. Plus.
Even if I bit the bullet to spend the money on a Tivo HD, I would have to cough up another 300 for Lifetime, try to navigate and pay for cable cards, blah blah blah.

This sucks.
I am an early adopter, have been loyal to Tivo for years (this is my 4th Tivo),
and yet I am feeling the pain here.
This sucks.

[netringer]

Did your old TV become an HD LCD for free, too? :D

Tech keeps on moving.

You can get use out of your Series 2 with MRV and streaming to the old TV in another room if that grabs ya. It does me. I have a big house.

[NJ_HB]

I use my TiVoHD and S2s daily with my HDTV.
The TiVoHD has all my favorite season passes and shows that I will normally watch in the next few days.
When PQ does not matter the S2s collects marathons of stuff that I may not get to for a while e.g. The Deadzone. I had never seen this series until a couple months ago and now I have +60 sitting on one of the S2s, allowing the HD to record Survivor, CSI, Heros, Lost, Supernatural etc. without worriying about space issues.

[bschuler2007]

LOL.. my one friend called me last weekend with this same issue. Old standard def. on new HDTV. I explained it to him this way.. you need to build a foundation BEFORE you build the house.

I bought an HD Tivo and yet I only have standard def. TV's. My thinking is.. one day.. I'll go HD and will be able to output HD through the Tivo. I wouldn't buy an HDTV without SOME way of getting HD content to it, what are people thinking? HD Tivo gives you several options, be it HD from cablecards or downloaded HD content.. other than Blueray, that's all you need IMHO.

You can't skip steps and expect good results.

[bmgoodman]

needless to say- the picture is terrible from the Tivo on the new T.V. I knew this would happen. I have saved content on my Tivo that will be hard to duplicate. Plus.

Not all HDTVs suck with standard definition programming, so if SD content is important to you, choose your HDTV carefully. I've seen two sets that were sooooo close displaying HD content that I'd flip a coin to choose; however, looking at both again with SD content gave one an OBVIOUS advantage.

My own belief is that plasma sets seem to handle SD better at any given price point, and I am really pleased with my 18 month old Panasonic Viera plasma.

Of course, this will become less an issue as more and more HD becomes available.

[Berryman1979]

Netringer there is no need to brag about your huge home. :D

Jilter the cost of going HD is still high but if you want a big screen and care about image quality it is worth it. It's more than just the money you pay for the TV, theres the TivoHD and the BluRay player and all the cables and then the cable company wants their cut. Congrats on the new TV though.

[CuriousMark]

The Tivo (Series 2) was always my favorite thing in the house.
I finally bit the bullet and bought a new LCD for the bedtroom and needless to say- the picture is terrible from the Tivo on the new T.V. I knew this would happen. I have saved content on my Tivo that will be hard to duplicate. Plus.
Even if I bit the bullet to spend the money on a Tivo HD, I would have to cough up another 300 for Lifetime, try to navigate and pay for cable cards, blah blah blah.

This sucks.
I am an early adopter, have been loyal to Tivo for years (this is my 4th Tivo),
and yet I am feeling the pain here.
This sucks.

Do you record in Basic quality on that DVR? Do you feed the television from it using RF? Best quality will look much better on an HDTV, but still not as good as real HD shows will. If you feed the TV using anything less than S-Video, you are sacrificing quality that you don't need to. Use S-Video. It will help a little bit more.

Still, if you do all those things (or are already) they will never match feeding real HD to the TV.

[NJ_HB]

LOL.. my one friend called me last weekend with this same issue. Old standard def. on new HDTV. I explained it to him this way.. you need to build a foundation BEFORE you build the house.

I bought an HD Tivo and yet I only have standard def. TV's. My thinking is.. one day.. I'll go HD and will be able to output HD through the Tivo. I wouldn't buy an HDTV without SOME way of getting HD content to it, what are people thinking? HD Tivo gives you several options, be it HD from cablecards or downloaded HD content.. other than Blueray, that's all you need IMHO.

You can't skip steps and expect good results.

+1
My sister has an HDTV but is always in a hurry to get home because she refuses to get a DVR or TiVo.
What do you do if you miss some of the dialog at a critical juncture in a show/movie?

[janry]

This is why I bought a TiVo HD before getting HDTV. :D


Now, I don't know if this works or not but I have a co-worker that still uses his Series 1 with HDTV buy running the TiVo's output through an upconveting DVD recorder/player. He says it improves the image quite a bit. Don't know if it's true or not, just reporting what he says.

[jilter]

Do you record in Basic quality on that DVR? Do you feed the television from it using RF? Best quality will look much better on an HDTV, but still not as good as real HD shows will. If you feed the TV using anything less than S-Video, you are sacrificing quality that you don't need to. Use S-Video.

Wait, to feed from S-Video, I have to take the signal from the cable box, correct?

[jilter]

This is why I bought a TiVo HD before getting HDTV. :D


Now, I don't know if this works or not but I have a co-worker that still uses his Series 1 with HDTV buy running the TiVo's output through an upconveting DVD recorder/player. He says it improves the image quite a bit. Don't know if it's true or not, just reporting what he says.

This sounds great, I will try this right away and report back.
Thanks Janry!

[[NG]Owner]

If you haven't already tweaked your input parameters, check this link (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=6468933#post6468933) out, too.

[NG]Owner

[debest]

Not all HDTVs suck with standard definition programming, so if SD content is important to you, choose your HDTV carefully. I've seen two sets that were sooooo close displaying HD content that I'd flip a coin to choose; however, looking at both again with SD content gave one an OBVIOUS advantage.

My own belief is that plasma sets seem to handle SD better at any given price point, and I am really pleased with my 18 month old Panasonic Viera plasma.

Of course, this will become less an issue as more and more HD becomes available.

I agree. My SD Tivo looked terrible on a 32" Sony LCD set. But it looked OK on a 42" Panasonic Plasma. After about a year, I ended up getting a TivoHD and LOVE IT!

[atmuscarella]

I agree with those that pointed out poor SD quality is more your TV's fault than your TiVo's. If you TV does SD poorly try sitting farther away from the set it should help.

I have a 50" plasma and SD content recorded on my Series 2 TiVo from a Dish Network STB looks ok and is certainly more than watchable.

Of course my TiVo HD which I use for OTA only is spectacular when viewing a HD TV show.

Thanks,

[mightymighty]

LOL.. my one friend called me last weekend with this same issue. Old standard def. on new HDTV. I explained it to him this way.. you need to build a foundation BEFORE you build the house.

I bought an HD Tivo and yet I only have standard def. TV's. My thinking is.. one day.. I'll go HD and will be able to output HD through the Tivo. I wouldn't buy an HDTV without SOME way of getting HD content to it, what are people thinking? HD Tivo gives you several options, be it HD from cablecards or downloaded HD content.. other than Blueray, that's all you need IMHO.

You can't skip steps and expect good results.

Well the beautiful thing is now you can get HD (best quality available) over the air. So really all you need is an antenna...

[lastdeadcat]

What can really help is have the picture calibrated right. That really helped my setup.

I have a TiVo HD and a ST Series 2 both connected to a 52-in. LCD TV. Both are about equal playing at SD content on the TV after I calibrated the inputs. I have all digital cable with a box feeding the Series 2 with S-Video and L-R audio with S-Video output to the TV and L-R audio to the AV receiver. I record everything at best quality. This is a refurbed stock 240 with an 80-hour drive.

The TiVoHD has cable cards with HDMI to the TV and digital optical to the AV receiver.

I prefer to record with the TiVoHD, but the Series 2 makes a good third tuner for SD. Since they both connect to the same TV I don't have to transfer any recordings. With the exeception of the few Hi. Def. programs the TiVoHD can record, I can can't see much difference between the two boxes. The difference is like winning a horse race by a nose.

When more Hi. Def. comes to town, the story will be different, I'm sure.

[sieglinde]

I hadn't thought about SD on a HDTV. Now I will have to pay attention to that. My basic cable may be Digital now but I suspect it is only SD quality so I will want to be able to watch that when I buy a HDTV. I also have a HDTivo and a SD TV and everything works fine. It down converts nicely. Picture looks better than SD on my SD TV.

[jilter]

Everyone has offfered great suggestions. Thank you, sincerely.
I had not known that plasma does better with SD...really I did not know.
I had researched heavily (or so I thought I did) before buying the HD set for our bedroom.
Believe me, if our old set did not start fading (literally), I would be happy with my old tube set simply becasue I knew it was more compatible with my trusty old Series 2.

When I finally had to bite the bullet and get the new t.v., I was surprised by two things...that one can NOT buy a tube t.v. anymore and how few plasmas are offered
compared to LCD. Can anyone explian how the "market" shifted so quickly away from plasma?

Off topic, sorry.

Is there an upconverter box anywhere....say without a DVD player?

[CuriousMark]

Wait, to feed from S-Video, I have to take the signal from the cable box, correct?
The best connection for a series 2 is S-Video from the cable box to the DVR and S-Video from the DVR to the TV. However, if the cable box only has composite video (yellow) then you use that instead. Of course you can still use S-Video from the DVR to the TV, no matter how the signal gets into the DVR. The quality will usually match the weakest link. RF is worst, composite is better, S-video is best (for an S2 standard def signal).

[magnus]

I think the OP should start a class action lawsuit. Tivo really should have told everyone that there would be HD TVs in the future and that SD would look like crap on it.

[CuriousMark]

My own belief is that plasma sets seem to handle SD better at any given price point, and I am really pleased with my 18 month old Panasonic Viera plasma.

I have to agree. I just picked up a Pioneer PDP-5020FD Plasma and it looks very good with SD. It will look much better once I feed it an HD signal, but I have DTV and am debating waiting for the HD TiVo box next year or switching to TW. In the meantime downloaded HD content fed to it via DLNA looks stunning.

[wmcbrine]

Is there an upconverter box anywhere....say without a DVD player?There are... but it would probably be cheaper to get a TiVo HD.

[netringer]

Netringer there is no need to brag about your huge home. :D ...

:D I wasn't bragging. It's just been on my mind as I start using other rooms after living in the house for 2 years*. I want to be sure I have don't have suffer watching a TiVo-less TV. I did that for a while and it was frightening. :p

BTW, I bought my Series 3 and transferred lifetime to it long before I had not only HDTV, but cable. I had it only only on OTA and net - and stowed away when I moved too far away for OTA - for 3 or 4 years while I had DirecTV*


* Yes. I AM nuts.

[jilter]

There are... but it would probably be cheaper to get a TiVo HD.
:):)

[aindik]

This sucks.
I am an early adopter, have been loyal to Tivo for years (this is my 4th Tivo),
and yet I am feeling the pain here.
This sucks.

Have you tried viewing SD content on your TV that's not from your TiVo? Say, from the cable straight to the TV from the wall? How does it look? Is it only your TiVo that looks bad?

[jilter]

The best connection for a series 2 is S-Video from the cable box to the DVR and S-Video from the DVR to the TV. However, if the cable box only has composite video (yellow) then you use that instead. Of course you can still use S-Video from the DVR to the TV, no matter how the signal gets into the DVR. The quality will usually match the weakest link. RF is worst, composite is better, S-video is best (for an S2 standard def signal).

This makes sense, however I am confused about one aspect.
The signal coming into our house into the cable boxes is coming thru an RF cable, is it not? I am not being sarcastic. I am really just trying to understand.

[netringer]

This makes sense, however I am confused about one aspect.
The signal coming into our house into the cable boxes is coming thru an RF cable, is it not? I am not being sarcastic. I am really just trying to understand.

Yeah, but when you use RF from the TiVo or a VCR to the TV, you have the device modulating it for a trip of 6 feet down the cable so it can be demodulated. You can get interferece and noise at either end and in the cable.

Using video cables takes a lot of the black boxes out of the trip. It gets progressively more direct and cleaner as you move to the S-Video link, and video cables for the most part aren't subject to picking up interference

[aindik]

This makes sense, however I am confused about one aspect.
The signal coming into our house into the cable boxes is coming thru an RF cable, is it not? I am not being sarcastic. I am really just trying to understand.

RF has the potential to deliver very good signal. But the RF outputs on your cable box and on your TiVo (and on VCRs and nearly all consumer level electronics) are terrible.

[CraigHB]

I switched to HD from a DirecTiVo SD. I did it in one fell swoop, got the HD monitor, TiVo S3, cable, cable cards, digital antenna all at the same time. Took a lot of time and some hair pulling to get everything going, but then wow, I got the feeling I should have done it sooner, the difference was monumental.

One thing nice about digital SD as opposed to analog SD is a marked improvement in PQ. I find I can zoom letterbox digital SD broadcasts to fill the screen and the PQ is still pretty good. I still have some analog chanels in my cable line-up and those don't look all that great, but they're tolerable. Digital SD broadcasts are much cleaner.

With your S2, the PQ should be tolerable for live TV and shows recorded at high quality if your TV has a decent scaler. Once you have a TiVo HD, you can do the scaling for SD broadcasts at the TiVo. It has a pretty good scaler. My monitor has a good scaler, but I still scale at the TiVo. In comparison to some TV's, the TiVo's scaler is worlds better.

[mattack]

I explained it to him this way.. you need to build a foundation BEFORE you build the house.
...
I wouldn't buy an HDTV without SOME way of getting HD content to it, what are people thinking?

I see where you're coming from, but it also seems 'backwards' to get HD recording devices before one has a HDTV.. (and I say that as someone who did exactly that.. *because* of the lifetime transfer options.) I connect my S3 & TivoHD to my TV with composite cables. Err, actually, one of my TV's inputs gets my non-Tivo hard drive/DVD recorder.. which has my Tivos plugged into it. TV input #2 has the S3 tivo directly connected (so I can watch Tivo while the XS32 is recording something).

Though even on this analog TV, I 'experiment' with recording some OTA HD with the little antenna I have. When the signal works, it looks very good.

[jilter]

LOL.. . I explained it to him this way.. you need to build a foundation BEFORE you build the house.

I bought an HD Tivo and yet I only have standard def. TV's. My thinking is.. one day.. I'll go HD and will be able to output HD through the Tivo. I wouldn't buy an HDTV without SOME way of getting HD content to it, what are people thinking? HD Tivo gives you several options, be it HD from cablecards or downloaded HD content.. other than Blueray, that's all you need IMHO.

You can't skip steps and expect good results.

I believe I need to clarify what is going on here.
Prior to this new t.v., the Tivo was "in control". It buffered our live t.v. and did all the major recording I cared about. However it was being fed from a dual tuner Comcast HD/DVR. When the new t.v. was installed, my husband pointed out to me that it did not make sense to use the Tivo as the primary recorder anymore since the picture was exceptional direct from the cable box to the t.v. I could not argue, and he is totally o.k. with switching inputs to get back to his recorded content that he has been saving all these years and re-watches constantly ("The Duke" freak). It is I, who misses the Tivo recording/Wishlists, etc so badly.

So for those of you who have wondered what the he!! I am doing with HDTV and no HD content, rest assured, it is there. But I feel like I am missing something fundamental to my viewing habits....oh yeah, I am.....MY TIVO!

[bobscola]

I figure that Tivo saved me a lot of money in the long run. Nope, can't go to (then very expensive) HDTV 'cause my Tivo's don't support then. Then upgraded one series 2 TiVo to Tivo HD to get dual tuners. Liked the dual tuners so much I upgraded the other series 2 to a Tivo HD. Then when I jumped into an HDTV it was big and (in comparison) cheap... thanks Tivo.

[djwilso]

When I finally had to bite the bullet and get the new t.v., I was surprised by two things...that one can NOT buy a tube t.v. anymore and how few plasmas are offered
compared to LCD. Can anyone explian how the "market" shifted so quickly away from plasma?I think that one thing about plasma TVs is that they use significantly more electricity and have higher operating temperatures. I recall reading that some local governments even have laws forbidding residents from using plasma TVs due to their "non-green" profile.

[netringer]

I figure that Tivo saved me a lot of money in the long run. Nope, can't go to (then very expensive) HDTV 'cause my Tivo's don't support then. Then upgraded one series 2 TiVo to Tivo HD to get dual tuners. Liked the dual tuners so much I upgraded the other series 2 to a Tivo HD. Then when I jumped into an HDTV it was big and (in comparison) cheap... thanks Tivo.

You coudda got a Dual Tuner Series 2 in there, or even now, not that the two tuners will do you much good for very long. (I have devious plans for mine.)

[MickeS]

Is the picture really worse, or is it that you now have a much bigger TV and yet the same viewing distance as before?

Have you used any of the DVD calibration discs out there to adjust the TV settings? Most sets have default settings that are adjusted to look good in a Best Buy store, and they will almost all look like complete junk out of the box at home. If it has a "Cinema" setting or similar, at least try and use that, they are usually closer to the ideal settings.

Sharpness should be down to almost zero, and the color and brightness adjustment is very important. Get one of the calibration discs and you will most likely notice a huge improvement.

[ciper]

I did not take the time to read this thread.

If your S1 or S2 look bad on your new TV there are only two things to blame -

The electronics in the TV aren't upconverting the SD video properly
Your TV is not configured properly (noise reducers, edge enhancers, contrast boosters and all that other crap makes it worse).

End of story. Full Stop.

[ThAbtO]

First of all, the Tivo series 1 and 2 are standard definition analog recorders. Recordings are only as good as the recorder or the source its recording from, as well as the connections to the TV. (They didn't have digital TV much back in the days when the series 1 was on the market.)

The picture you were getting from the old tube TV was great in the 20th century. Digital TV has moved in to the 21st century and today's HDTV takes video to a new dimension where digital TV takes the stand, eliminating snow and shadows from weaken signals, providing incredible clear pictures. Analog is moving out while digital moves in.

Today's TV uses connections such as component and HDMI to receive digital signals. The older connections are composite (yellow) and S-Video (Super-Video) {Not so super now.:D} with the audio in the red/white, are analog connections.

In a situation such as yours, cable box hooked via composite or S-Video to the Tivo or TV will downgrade or worsen that signal when you view on on a HDTV then on a tube TV.

The video if coming straight from the cable is better if its hooked straight to the HDTV from the coax or through HDMI or component connections if the cable box provided them.

The Series 3/HD/XL Tivo are digital recorders which do not downgrade those signals when its recorded or played back. Although there are the old composite and S-video connections, HDMI and component are included, providing the clearer digital signals for the HDTV, most prefer using these connections rather then the older ones.

Recording Digital video is like copying exactly the signal its getting ,where as, analog signals are downgraded prior to recording.

(This is about the best way I can explain.)

Some explanation of why companies are favoring LCD as to plasma are plasmas use more energy to operate, also depends on the TV size. Some people experience things such as the lights dimming whenever they turn on their plasma HDTV.

Another reason is the marketing strategy where plasma are not selling as well as LCDs in today's markets.

[ciper]

Some explanation of why companies are favoring LCD as to plasma are plasmas use more energy to operate, also depends on the TV size. Some people experience things such as the lights dimming whenever they turn on their plasma HDTV.

When I was TV shopping the power consumption was a deciding factor. One 50 inch plasma I almost bought drew 695 watts! Compare that to a non LED backlit 52 inch LCD that draws 320...

Secondly a Plasma has a significantly lower lifetime than LCD. Even if nothing breaks a plasma will fade out over time. It is essentially thousands of small fluorescent bulbs. An LED backlit LCD should theoretically last beyond your lifetime.

[orangeboy]

This thread has inspired me to take my S2 off the shelf to hook up to my HDTV. I'll then set "Channels I Receive" on my S3 to HD only, and on the S2 to SD only. It's something I probably done a long time ago!

[jilter]

This thread has inspired me to take my S2 off the shelf to hook up to my HDTV. I'll then set "Channels I Receive" on my S3 to HD only, and on the S2 to SD only. It's something I probably done a long time ago!

Let me know how that goes for you, please.

[wmcbrine]

This thread has inspired me to take my S2 off the shelf to hook up to my HDTV. I'll then set "Channels I Receive" on my S3 to HD only, and on the S2 to SD only. It's something I probably done a long time ago!What's the goal there -- having an extra tuner?

A standard definition picture upconverted by an S3 looks significantly better than an SD picture straight from an S2, at least on my set. So personally, I wouldn't hook up an S2 to an HD display (again).

[classicsat]

This makes sense, however I am confused about one aspect.
The signal coming into our house into the cable boxes is coming thru an RF cable, is it not? I am not being sarcastic. I am really just trying to understand.

It is also digital.

It is impossible from a cost and content protection standpoint, for a box to have a digital signal output on a coax.

It is not that is is an RF cable, it is the sort of signal an analog RF modulator makes which is poor.

[jilter]

It is also digital.

It is impossible from a cost and content protection standpoint, for a box to have a digital signal output on a coax.

It is not that is is an RF cable, it is the sort of signal an analog RF modulator makes which is poor.

Got it, thank you so much for the explanation.

[netringer]

This thread has inspired me to take my S2 off the shelf to hook up to my HDTV. I'll then set "Channels I Receive" on my S3 to HD only, and on the S2 to SD only. It's something I probably done a long time ago!

What's the goal there -- having an extra tuner?

A standard definition picture upconverted by an S3 looks significantly better than an SD picture straight from an S2, at least on my set. So personally, I wouldn't hook up an S2 to an HD display (again).

You have 4 tuners working for you and two places to store media on your network. That's what I'm doing, or will be once I get MRV working right.

Right now I can amazingly transfer HD shows decrypted to .mpg with kmttg to my S2. There's just no sound and the picture is sharp and letterboxed but the frames stutter. I haven't gotten anything from Streambaby to play. I was thinking I'd have to covert to 480i but it was looking like I wouldn't have to and Streambaby is supposed to convert appropriately? See you in those threads.

[aindik]

What's the goal there -- having an extra tuner?

A standard definition picture upconverted by an S3 looks significantly better than an SD picture straight from an S2, at least on my set. So personally, I wouldn't hook up an S2 to an HD display (again).

Also, if you have a CableCARD in the S3, it's fairly likely that the SD channels you're getting are digital, encoded at the head end by your cable company with professional grade equipment. Signals in an S2 are converted by the internals inside the S2.

The digital signals your cable company sends are saved on your S3 in perfect quality, and the file sizes are between TiVo's Basic and Medium.

[CuriousMark]

I think that one thing about plasma TVs is that they use significantly more electricity and have higher operating temperatures. I recall reading that some local governments even have laws forbidding residents from using plasma TVs due to their "non-green" profile.
Modern Plasmas are not so bad. Also, their power consumption varies with how brightly the screen is at any given moment. So the rated power of a Plasma display is much higher than its usual average power consumption. LCDs draw full power all the time they are on, even in dark scenes (except for the newest ones with LED backlighting, which are more like a plasma) The LED units are very low power.

I think it has more to do with price. LCDs are getting cheaper faster.

Personally, I went with Plasma for the better picture it can provide in my relatively dark room with widely scattered seats, being well aware of the lifetime and power consumption issues.

[kupe]

The Tivo (Series 2) was always my favorite thing in the house.
I finally bit the bullet and bought a new LCD for the bedtroom and needless to say- the picture is terrible from the Tivo on the new T.V.
This sucks.
I am an early adopter, have been loyal to Tivo for years (this is my 4th Tivo),
and yet I am feeling the pain here.
This sucks.

As I'm sure you know, this has nothing to do with your Tivo. What you are seeing is the ugliness of a SD (standard def) signal on an HD (High Def) Television. Same will be true if you feed an SD signal straight from the wall to your HD Television.

Yep- time for the Tivo HD. And of course an HD package from your cable or satellite provider if you don't already have it.

Kupe

[wmcbrine]

Right now I can amazingly transfer HD shows decrypted to .mpg with kmttg to my S2. There's just no sound and the picture is sharp and letterboxed but the frames stutter.That is interesting. I assume this is a 649? I get quite a different result with my 540.

I haven't gotten anything from Streambaby to play.It won't work with any Series 2. TiVo has not added video streaming support to the Series 2 software yet.

[jilter]

What can really help is have the picture calibrated right. That really helped my setup.

I have a TiVo HD and a ST Series 2 both connected to a 52-in. LCD TV. Both are about equal playing at SD content on the TV after I calibrated the inputs. I have all digital cable with a box feeding the Series 2 with S-Video and L-R audio with S-Video output to the TV and L-R audio to the AV receiver. I record everything at best quality. This is a refurbed stock 240 with an 80-hour drive.
Can you explain this further, please?
What do you mean by calibrating the "inputs"?

[aindik]

What can really help is have the picture calibrated right. That really helped my setup.

I have a TiVo HD and a ST Series 2 both connected to a 52-in. LCD TV. Both are about equal playing at SD content on the TV after I calibrated the inputs. I have all digital cable with a box feeding the Series 2 with S-Video and L-R audio with S-Video output to the TV and L-R audio to the AV receiver. I record everything at best quality. This is a refurbed stock 240 with an 80-hour drive.

The TiVoHD has cable cards with HDMI to the TV and digital optical to the AV receiver.

I prefer to record with the TiVoHD, but the Series 2 makes a good third tuner for SD. Since they both connect to the same TV I don't have to transfer any recordings. With the exeception of the few Hi. Def. programs the TiVoHD can record, I can can't see much difference between the two boxes. The difference is like winning a horse race by a nose.

When more Hi. Def. comes to town, the story will be different, I'm sure.

Do you have your TiVoHD set that you have a 16:9 TV and to output Native resolution?

If so, try telling it you have a 4:3 Smart Screen TV and seeing if the SD picture quality gets a heck of a lot better. It did on my TV.

It's also a heck of a lot better in 1080i Fixed if you don't want to do the 4:3 smart screen thing.

[CuriousMark]

Can you explain this further, please?
What do you mean by calibrating the "inputs"?

Most new TVs will let you set different video settings for each input to the TV. Inputs such as Cable, AV-1, HDMI-1, or whatever they are named on your TV. The settings include brightness, contrast, color, tint, sharpness and others. You should adjust them for the best picture from the source that drives that input to the TV. Since different sources will not produce identical signals, those adjustments can make up for the input differences and give you the best picture for each input.

[jilter]

Whoa...
off to try this.

[debest]

[QUOTE=jilter;7230476]Can anyone explian how the "market" shifted so quickly away from plasma?
QUOTE]

I think plasma's have the best HD Picture for the money, but they've got a bad reputation because of picture burn-in, glare, and energy use. Some of these negatives are becoming less... Also, until recently you couldn't get a plasma smaller than 42".

I don't like LCD's because of bad SD picture, viewing angle, motion blurr, contrast ratio, more expensive for larger sets.

[CuriousMark]

When I was TV shopping the power consumption was a deciding factor. One 50 inch plasma I almost bought drew 695 watts! Compare that to a non LED backlit 52 inch LCD that draws 320...
Ok, I had to check. I dug out the Kill-A-Watt and checked. My Pioneer 50 inch Plasma draws 1 watt in standby, 75 watts when on with a black screen and 390 watts when showing a solid white screen in torch mode. Regular TV, properly adjusted, was bouncing around between 190 and 220. So it looks like my Plasma is actually lower power in normal use than that LCD spec. I suspect the LCD is also lower power in regular use too, so I will settle for believing they are comparable.

[netringer]

As I'm sure you know, this has nothing to do with your Tivo. What you are seeing is the ugliness of a SD (standard def) signal on an HD (High Def) Television. Same will be true if you feed an SD signal straight from the wall to your HD Television.

Yep- time for the Tivo HD. And of course an HD package from your cable or satellite provider if you don't already have it.

Kupe

I FINALLY! got MRV working and transferred an (noisy analog cable) SD program from my new Series 2 to my Series 3. It looked a lot better on my 37" Sharp AQUOS than it did on my JVC 35" CRT, but then I was sitting further back. :rolleyes: Seriously, the AQUOS and the S3 does great with SD, and it does great in SD with a direct cable connection, even on analog.

[orangeboy]

What's the goal there -- having an extra tuner?

A standard definition picture upconverted by an S3 looks significantly better than an SD picture straight from an S2, at least on my set. So personally, I wouldn't hook up an S2 to an HD display (again).

Basically, yes - additional tuner, additional storage. With any SD content being recorded on the S2, I'll have more room for HD content on the S3. If the PQ is so horrific coming through S-Video on my Vizio 42", I can always remove it, and curse only the time wasted programming my Logitech Harmony remote, running cables, and adding Season Passes to the S2. ;)

It also allows me to get the value out of my S2 that is currently sitting on a shelf. I paid for it, I might as well use it! I did try to give it to my parents, but they are "technologically stubborn" concerning the idea that they need such a device. I am completely convinced they would love it, but I'm not the one needing convincing!

[newskilz]

Use a digital converter box with your S2 and get free digital OTA if it's available. I bet the picture will be pretty crisp then. At least it will remove the haziness etc. from analog. I use an S1 and S2 on my 52' LCD TV and they both look pretty sharp (both using digital converter boxes).

On side notes: I personally bought the LCD because it doesn't takes a LOT longer to get burn in, and only remotely going to do it, you do not have to routinely burn out the burn in. I also chose LCD because from all reports I looked at, the LCD tv (not projection type) was the cheapest to fix by a third if and when it broke. Just my two cents. :)

[jilter]

So, is there a digital converter box one can buy, or would I have to rent one from Comcast.

My saga continues.....
Husband upgraded from a Samsung 37" A550 to a 40" B550 and would you believe, (just when I had searched all over the house for an S-Video plug) for some unknown reason
Samsung deleted the S-Video input from the model we "upgraded" to.
Anyone have any idea why they would do this?

<sigh>

Jill

[jrm01]

Samsung has begun to eliminate the "old" analog inputs from some of their TVs. Last year they did it with the 330 model line, now they have done it with their 550 (as far as s-video) line. Few people use them, and it saves a few bucks.

The only "digital converter" that you could use if you have comcast would be their cablebox.

You would have been better off keeping the Sammy 37A330 and getting a TiVo HD to go with it.

[netringer]

So, is there a digital converter box one can buy, or would I have to rent one from Comcast.

My saga continues.....
Husband upgraded from a Samsung 37" A550 to a 40" B550 and would you believe, (just when I had searched all over the house for an S-Video plug) for some unknown reason
Samsung deleted the S-Video input from the model we "upgraded" to.
Anyone have any idea why they would do this?

<sigh>

Jill
To kiss the MPAA backside and help in plugging the "analog hole." You vill use HDCP. Vee haf vays of stopping you from viewing our products.

I have some RCA to S-Video and vice-versa converter plugs and adapters. You can (could?) find them at various Yahoo stores for $3 or so + shipping. Not that they improve the video signal to S-Video quality.

More importantly, why would you go from 37" to 40"? That's not much of an upgrade. :rolleyes: When I get my next one after my 37", it'll be 50" plus, more likely in the 60's.

[jilter]

To kiss the MPAA backside and help in plugging the "analog hole." You vill use HDCP. Vee haf vays of stopping you from viewing our products. I do not understand this.

BTW, It's a bedroom; 46" or 50" would be overkill, the only 42"'s were plasma.
I know 37" to 40" is not significant, but it did not ending up costing any more money, and the husband wanted the 40" originally, it never ocurred to me that
Samsung would eliminate S-Video in the same model year. Definitely my mistake, live and learn.

Thanks everyone for the help. Sincerely.
This subject has grown tiresome.
I will learn to adapt to the Comcast DVR.

[johnf@home]

So, is there a digital converter box one can buy, or would I have to rent one from Comcast.

Jill

With any luck Comcast will give you one. As part of their "World of More" transition they are switching more of their cable channels to digital. If you currently get analog service they will give you up to three converter boxes; one full-feature one that does everything, and two lesser-function boxes. I don't know the exact details, as it doesn't affect me - I've been digital-only since I first subscribed to Comcast.

Just when Comcast will be updating cable service in your area, and offering converter boxes, I don't know - check at http://www.comcast.com/digitalnow

[netringer]

...
Just when Comcast will be updating cable service in your area, and offering converter boxes, I don't know - check at http://www.comcast.com/digitalnow

So I spend a few minutes digging out my account number, fill in the cursed Captcha, please wait.... Unable to find your information. Please call us. :mad:

Yep. It's Comcastic.