Pretty Darn Unstable

[solutionsetc]

Hey all,

I'm new to TiVo, having just purchased two HDs to replace my Comcast DVRs. The main room unit (which gets the most use & fooling around) has crashed no less than four times in its first week of use.

Granted it has not crashed within its core functionality (watching live, recording, playback), but while setting up wish lists, searching, etc... I really was expecting a much more stable platform for such a mature product line.

So I have a couple of questions for those of you in the know:

1.) Is this typical with TiVo? or is 11b just a lemon? Granted this could be a hardware issue but it sure doesn't act like one.

2.) Does TiVo's OS have any kind of crash reporter uploading crash logs to TiVo? Or do these bugs need to be reproduced and reported in order to have them fixed? And if so, is there a bug report form online somewhere.

Hoping the experience improves, and looking forward to your comments,

-ss

[Sandlapper]

That doesn't sound normal. I can't remember the last time I've had an issue with my Tivo crashing.

[bkdtv]

This is not normal. I've had one lockup in the past 12 months. That is "normal" operation.

Did you purchase new or refurbished TiVos? If you purchased refurbished, one could be defective.

The primary causes of TiVo lockups and reboots are (a) a defective or failing internal or external drive, (b) a defective or loose eSATA cable to an external drive, and (c) signals that are so strong they overpower the TiVo. If you were using a cable amplifier for your Series1, you should probably remove that for the TivoHD. If you aren't using an amplifier, and your cable signals are the 98-100 range, then I would order a -6dB attenuator (http://www.smarthome.com/7802/Signal-Strength-Attenuator-Pads-6-dB/p.aspx) to go with that new TivoHD.

Remote applications run from TiVo's servers, like Swivel Search and the new TiVo Search, can hang when network load is high and/or your network goes down. However, in 99% of instances, those aren't true lockups, and you can get out of them by pressing the TiVo button.

If by crash you mean loss of picture on analog channels, while all other menus continue to function, that isn't a crash. The current 11.0 software exhibits a loss-of-analog tuner bug, discussed right here (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7215878#post7215878). This does not affect digital channels. TiVo support says that a fix is on the way.

If you are new to TiVo, be sure to check out the TivoHD Overview, Q&A, Setup, Tips (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=419994) thread.

[bkdtv]

Now...if you can figure out how to reproduce such a crash, state how, so the TiVo employees who read this forum can try to reproduce it themselves.

[kmccluney]

I'll add high temperature as a possible other reason for random crashes. I've owned a TiVo HD since January. Not long after I got it it began experiencing random reboots that got frequently worse, especially when accessing the menus. I measured the temperature in the stereo cabinet and found it was uncomfortably high. The TiVo shares the cabinet with a stereo amplifier, DVD player, DVD recorder, and a turntable, which are usually powered off. I installed a pair of DC cooling fans in my stereo cabinet and brought the temperature down to ~80 degrees (measured at the top of the TiVo unit). Since then (~2 1/2 months) I haven't had a menu access-induced reboot.

[solutionsetc]

These are both new... one from BB, the other from Amazon. No external drive, and no signal issues.

It only happens pretty deep down into the interface. Adding quite a few "OR" keywords in wish lists, deep into swivel/tivo searches (ala the episodes/casts, etc.) browsing much of the online content sections.

It is always right after a keypress where TiVo needs to redraw the screen corresponding to the selection.... and then it is lights out. BAM!

No issues transferring, downloading, recording playback. No issues with the guide or NowPlaying, To Do, SP Manager, Just stuff deeper down in the interface.

Network is hard wired smart 10/100/1000 base T.

It is not a lock up, it is an immediate blank screen/reboot after a key press.

I have Q/A'd alot of software over the last 30 years and this acts just like a corrupted heap or the OS cutting the legs out from under the app due to an invalid handle/address.

They are difficult to reproduce as they are usually many levels deep in the GUI, or something like adding many keywords to a wishlist.

Heat is also not an issue.

And I am almost exclusively on HD cable channels.

The only thing that might be different in my setup is that I have network remote enabled, but the crashes were experienced using the IR remote, not the IP remote.

Keep 'em coming.

[mikeyts]

I'll add high temperature as a possible other reason for random crashes. I've owned a TiVo HD since January. Not long after I got it it began experiencing random reboots that got frequently worse, especially when accessing the menus. I measured the temperature in the stereo cabinet and found it was uncomfortably high.If you navigate to TiVo Central->Messages & Settings->Account & System Information->System Information, one the line items is "Internal Temperature" with an indication of whether it's acceptable. Mine currently says "Internal Temperature: 54C (Normal)".

[solutionsetc]

If you navigate to TiVo Central->Messages & Settings->Account & System Information->System Information, one the line items is "Internal Temperature" with an indication of whether it's acceptable. Mine currently says "Internal Temperature: 54C (Normal)".

Mine says 48C... and this is the hottest day of the year (by far).

[bkdtv]

The Swivel Search and TiVo Search remote applications are definitely less mature than the rest of the TiVo software (Title Search, Wishlists). The TiVo Search function was in public "beta" until this past week.

I've had many instances where Swivel Search and the TiVo Search beta stopped responding and/or crashed, but neither caused a reboot for me. I've always been able to get out of it by pressing the TiVo button.

You might try disabling IP control, if you don't use it. [I don't use it.] That could be a contributing factor; it may not be adequately debugged.

If want to help TiVo test new software features, you can sign up at TiVo's Field Trials site (https://fieldtrials.tivo.com/signup/default.html?sid={78BC0272-0B2D-4BC7-818F-8D8AD0A8EDF9}). Note signing up is no guarantee they will pick you.

[mikeyts]

Mine says 48C... and this is the hottest day of the year (by far).Yeah, it's 90 degrees here right now and there's no AC in this home (down here, people tend to eschew AC in homes this close to the ocean--a couple of miles in a straight line--though the breeze off the water can't always be depended on). On days like this, I often set a floor fan up in front of my AV cabinet, an inexpensive one in which things are stacked a little closer together than I'd like.

[solutionsetc]

I do use an IP based remote, but can certainly live without it for a week or two to see if that is the cause of the crashes. I can also hammer on the upstairs box to see if I can get that one to crash too.

The last crash was using TiVo search. Clicking TiVo search in Find Programs did nothing but take me to a blank screen momentarily and than back to the Find Program screen. This happened twice.

On the third attempt it finally took me to the Tivo Search screen, and doing a search for "Mad Men", going to the Episode guide, and then selecting season 2 is what nuked it.

edit: Actually... I browsed the cast member photos first, then wnt back to the episodes list.

[bkdtv]

The last crash was using TiVo search. Clicking TiVo search in Find Programs did nothing but take me to a blank screen momentarily and than back to the Find Program screen. This happened twice.I've seen this a few times with the public beta, especially during primetime hours when load on the TiVo servers is high.

On the third attempt it finally took me to the Tivo Search screen, and doing a search for "Mad Men", going to the Episode guide, and then selecting season 2 is what nuked it.I haven't seen that, but it really doesn't surprise me. As noted above, this application was only released (added to Find Programs) in the past week. This application runs completely from TiVo's servers (the TiVo itself renders the output).

[janry]

It seems to me I have issues of lockup or re-booting most often while the TiVo is busy doing some things like the daily serivce call or indexing. I've learned to check to make sure the call isn't in progress or about to be made, and that indexing has completed within the last 24 hours before I start setting up searches, wishlists or season passes. And, I never do any of this while I'm transferring a program through Desktop.

I suggest the OP check the status of the daily call and indexing from the System Information screens before getting heavy into setting his searches up.

[solutionsetc]

Thank you all for your comments. It is interesting to note that the last service connection may have indeed coincided with the last crash. I will keep my eye out for this in the future.

I'll update this thread should I discover anything easily reproducible.

[morac]

Have you gotten 11.0c yet? You should have by now. You should see if that's a bit more stable.

If you keep getting spontaneous (i.e., not reproducible) reboots, I'd return the HD and get a new one since it's possible the HD is just bad.

[DeWitt]

It seems to me I have issues of lockup or re-booting most often while the TiVo is busy doing some things like the daily serivce call or indexing. I've learned to check to make sure the call isn't in progress or about to be made, and that indexing has completed within the last 24 hours before I start setting up searches, wishlists or season passes. And, I never do any of this while I'm transferring a program through Desktop.

I suggest the OP check the status of the daily call and indexing from the System Information screens before getting heavy into setting his searches up.

Gospel!

I have learned to walk gingerly through the Menu's when indexing is going on. For me the line up change message is like a "walk gently" sign.

[solutionsetc]

Have you gotten 11.0c yet? You should have by now. You should see if that's a bit more stable.

If you keep getting spontaneous (i.e., not reproducible) reboots, I'd return the HD and get a new one since it's possible the HD is just bad.

Nope... still 11b. But I have discovered an issue with one of the cable cards not tuning to some channels and bringing up the black and grey cable card screen. It is only on the number 2 card.

Comcast will be here Thursday morning to replace the card.

Possibly it is this that is making the box unhappy?

[morac]

A bad card shouldn't cause reboots, but that doesn't mean it's not possible. If replacing the card doesn't fix the problem though I'd recommend just exchanging the TiVo for a new one since a brand new TiVo shouldn't behave like that. Based on the symptoms you've reported, it's most likely a bad drive.

If the replacement still has a problem, then you can start trying to track down signal or other problems.

[ciper]

Plenty of updates have been floating around. Like others have said I would not be surprised if your system recently updated and it is still indexing the DB. I'm not saying crashes like you mention are normal but I'd give it a couple days to simmer down then try to crash it again.

You aren't using the internet features right? (youtube/netflix) Those are the only part of the THD/S3 that are not ready for primetime.

[solutionsetc]

I am not using Netflix, but have gone through and played with practically everything else. So far I have had crashes in wish list creation, channel list editing, and Tivo/swivel search. We'll see if it gets better after a new cable card and a few more days for everything to settle down.