Digital Closed Captions

[bicker]

Is there a specific codec that we need to install that will display closed captions when watching a .tivo file of an HD program, transferred to our PC via TTG?

[txporter]

I don't watch any shows on my PC, but I believe you can probably find what you need on the T2SAMI (http://t2sami.com/t2samisite/)site. At the very least, you can use that program to extract the CC as a srt and then there are multiple ways to play those together in various players. But there might be a way to simply watch the .tivo file with captions.

Jason

[bicker]

I'll check it out, but from what I've seen of T2SAMI in the past, that's mostly about extracting closed captions, rather than displaying them on screen, which is what we're after.

[bicker]

Checked it out... HOLY COW! What a difference! GREAT JOB James!

I have noted a few problems (really minor).... for example, with the background set to transparent, sometimes there are boxes to the left and right of some lines of the captions.

Is there a specific thread to report such issues?

[jmemmott]

Thanks for the heads up. I will look at it and see what I can do to get rid of the boxes.

There isn't a specific thread these days. I think that many of the people who use t2sami for captioning have found patterns that work for them so questions/problems reports are fairly low. However, I monitor threads that might be relevant so any "closed captioning" threads will be noticed.

[bicker]

Great. We're going to have two opportunities to do some significant television watching using TTG, soon (now that viewing digital closed captions is so easy and apparently reliable!) -- a couple of night's worth in April and a couple of night's worth in May. Normally, what we've done in the past, is record programs, especially, in standard definition, when we know we're going away soon, and watch the grainier versions on the laptop (or projected through the s-video output onto a television with suitable input) -- now we don't have to make that compromise any longer.

Question: Where does T2SAMI put .tivo files?

And how do you delete stuff? :confused:

[jmemmott]

If you had/have the Tivo Desktop installed in the computer, it will default to the download directory you set in that program. In any case, you can always open the configuration dialog, select the "Conversion" tab and set the directory at the top to the directory you want to use. From that point on, it will send the files it downloads to that directory.

The other directory on that property sheet is optional and is only used if you are post processing the files. I currently use it to convert downloaded .tivos to captioned streamable .mp4's for sending back with streambaby. Since I have a separate storage directory structure for that, I use this setting to send them there.

I don't delete from within the program except as part of a conversion task. Choosing to err on the conservative side, I'll let you use Windows explorer to destroy things.

[bicker]

Okay, then I have a problem. I also I cannot find the file so I cannot delete my first recording. I checked in TiVo Desktop, in the folder it uses. It isn't there. From within T2Sami Desktop, the recording is still available to play, in the Captions tab. The directory indicated is C:\Windows\system32\. I don't see any .tivo files there, either.

[bicker]

Found it!

C:\Users\xxxxxxx\AppData\Local\VirtualStore\Windows\System32

Strange!

[jmemmott]

Not so strange to me - more like a known pain ...

Vista and the new Windows beta both tightened security to protect us from ourselves. They no longer allow anyone that is not using the "Run as administrator" mode to write to certain directory trees such as \Program Files\... and \Windows\... However, if you try, the OS doesn't return an error. Instead, it virtualizes the write to an obscure part of the \Users\ directory tree. Usually this means no one can find the file and every user ends up with a seperate incompatible copy. I am still working through and trying to find all the issues this raises under these OS's.

The bottom line is that t2sami should not be writting to \Windows\... anyway. Presumablily it occured because you had no directory set and the process ended up writting to the current directory. Set the output to go to your own directory such as \My Video\Tivo and I will add an error check to my todo list.

[bicker]

What is strange is that I do have TiVo Desktop installed.

[bicker]

Okay, I'm having a new problem. I'm trying now to take an HD .tivo file, and transcode it so that it has hard captions. I've installed mplayer and changed the setting, at least as far as I can tell from reading the docs. However, when the transcoded MPG is brought back to the TiVo, it is still only showing the captions provided by the TiVo, not the hard captions.

What I want this for is to eventually bring these files onto my S2 (which, I suspect, cannot decode the digital CC). But when I try to transfer the MPG to my S2, it transfers, but there is no video.

What could I be doing wrong?

[jmemmott]

What I want this for is to eventually bring these files onto my S2 (which, I suspect, cannot decode the digital CC). But when I try to transfer the MPG to my S2, it transfers, but there is no video.


The S2 should handle the captions the same way the S3 does so that will not be an issue. The bigger issue is that if you start with HD video, the S2 may not be able to handle the resolution, bit rates and audio codecs in the .tivo files. It might be better to use the ffmpeg Tivo profile to down res to SD and MPEG2 audio before you send it to the S2 and use the closed captions as they are.

[bicker]

I'm a bit confused, then, because doesn't the S2 rely on Line 21 captions (which presumably aren't there in the HD broadcast). :confused:

Regardless, I'll try that once my system backup is done (sometime over the next day or two :rotfl: ).

[jmemmott]

I'm a bit confused, then, because doesn't the S2 rely on Line 21 captions (which presumably aren't there in the HD broadcast).


Tivo's convert the broadcast signal into a variant mpeg2 stream for storage on the hard disk. Line 21 data would never survive the compression so it is removed and stored as "user" data in the video stream. During playback the process is reversed. The Tivo2Go .tivo format is derived from the mpeg2 storage format so the captions are in this common storage format not in line 21 or digital captioning formats. S2's and S3's use the same storage format for this purpose.

[bicker]

Okay, so this should work (assuming I can work out the other problems) for TiVo-to-PC-to-TiVo transfers, but it wouldn't help for TiVo-to-PC-to-Zune transfers, eh?

I've given up with transcoding for now. I ended up with "I/O error occured" and the file deleted.

[bicker]

I'm still trying to get this to work reliably. It seems that sometimes I get it to work, but then I can't.

A this point, I am trying to put open captions onto video, for later transfer to my wife's Zune HD. I've gotten as far as t2sami creating t2sami.mpg, and doing copies mid-way through I can see that it is working. However, once it is done, the file is gone, and there is no evidence that it did anything.

What am I doing wrong?

[jmemmott]

I'm still trying to get this to work reliably. It seems that sometimes I get it to work, but then I can't.

A this point, I am trying to put open captions onto video, for later transfer to my wife's Zune HD. I've gotten as far as t2sami creating t2sami.mpg, and doing copies mid-way through I can see that it is working. However, once it is done, the file is gone, and there is no evidence that it did anything.

What am I doing wrong?

I don’t know that you are doing anything wrong but there are too many options in the program and too little information here for me to make an educated guess about what is happening.

Try running the simplest case. Use the latest version of the program. Leave “Delete Source File After Conversion” and “Use Alternate Output Directory” unchecked in the Conversion Options Tab. Then use the “MPEG” profile on the “Coming Back” Tab to convert. By default, audio and video are set to “Native” in this profile so this should simply remove the encryption from the .tivo file and extract the captions leaving you with a .mpg A/V file, an .mpg.txt metadata file and your caption file (.srt, .smi, ... ) in the same directory as the original .tivo file.

If you don’t get this, there may be an issue with your source files that is causing the process to fail so I may need to look at one. If this does work, you can try setting the conversion options and/or switching to a different profile until you find the setting that causes the problem.

Let me know how it goes.

[bicker]

I'm sorry I wasn't clear enough earlier.... I am already past the point where I have the .tivo file, a .mpg file, an .mpg.txt file, and the .srt file. I'm working on the step after that, trying to put the open captions into the video.

I actually see your program creating the video that I'm looking for... the problem is that when the video is "done", the software deletes t2sami.mpg, instead of overwriting the existing file or applying a new name.

[jmemmott]

Can I assume that you are using something similar to the "MPG Stream" profile to do this. That profile uses mencoder rather than ffmpeg to embed
.srt captions into the output stream as open captions. Correct me if this is incorrect.

Otherwise, I will do some regression testing on it. I have to admit that I have not worked or looked at that path for a while and could have done something to break it in more recent changes.

[bicker]

Yes, I'm using mencoder, Target MPG, with Keep Intermediate and Hard Subs checked.

This is version 3.1.0053.

I'm running it again. I'll post the log when it is done. Is there some place other than ffmpeg.log where logging can be found?

BTW, I couldn't get mencoder working from SMPlayer (and MPlayer seems to be nowhere) so Mencoder Location is ...Program Files\KMTTG\mencoder

[bicker]

This the tail end of the log:
Pos:3300.2s 88699f (99%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1423mb A-V:0.028 [3151:384]
Pos:3300.2s 88700f (99%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1423mb A-V:0.028 [3151:384]
Pos:3300.3s 88701f (99%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1423mb A-V:0.028 [3151:384]
Pos:3300.3s 88702f (99%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1423mb A-V:0.028 [3151:384]
Pos:3300.3s 88703f (99%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:384]
Pos:3300.4s 88704f (99%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:384]
Pos:3300.4s 88705f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3300.4s 88706f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3300.5s 88707f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3300.5s 88708f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3300.5s 88709f (
100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3300.6s 88710f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3300.6s 88711f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3300.6s 88712f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3300.7s 88713f (
100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3300.7s 88714f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3300.7s 88715f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3300.8s 88716f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3300.8s 88717f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3300.8s 88718f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3300.9s 88719f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3300.9s 88720f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3300.9s 88721f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3301.0s 88722f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3301.0s 88723f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3301.0s 88724f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3301.1s 88725f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3301.1s 88726f (
100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3301.1s 88727f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3301.2s 88728f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3301.2s 88729f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3301.2s 88730f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3301.3s 88731f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3301.3s 88732f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3301.3s 88733f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3301.4s 88734f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3301.4s 88735f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3301.4s 88736f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]
Pos:3301.5s 88737f (100%) 27.88fps Trem: 0min 1424mb A-V:0.028 [3151:383]

Flushing video frames.
Writing index...

Overhead: 2.382% (34745540 / 1458463548)
Writing hea
der...

Video stream: 3151.652 kbit/s (393956 B/s) size: 1300633451 bytes 3301.465 secs 88737 frames

Audio stream: 384.000 kbit/s (47999 B/s) size: 158446738 bytes 3300.974 secs
<TEST INFO>: Child process ended

[bicker]

Okay things are going backward.... I upgraded to the latest version, and now I'm not seeing any overlaying of open captions.

[jmemmott]

When you have time, download and try version 3.2.0069. Depending on the options and locations you pick, it may leave an intermediate file behind but it should also give you an open captioned video as the end product. I will finish cleaning this up but with my holiday schedule, that may not come until after Christmas. In the meantime, I want to get something up that can give you results.

[txporter]

Okay things are going backward.... I upgraded to the latest version, and now I'm not seeing any overlaying of open captions.

I have an alternate method of re-encoding to MPEG2 video with open captions (hardcoded) if you are interested. It takes a bit more work to set things up, but ultimately you have much more control over what you get. It utilizes avisynth, HC encoder (MPEG2 encoder) and a few other programs. I use it for re-encoding DVD video into MPEG2 with hardsubs, but it can be used for tivo recordings as well.

[bicker]

I'm just getting back to this. The latest version of T2SAMI did work for me (though I have to work on the font choice... I must have changed something because it is now a very boxy font.)

[jmemmott]

You may already know this but for general reference, you need to tell Mencoder which font to use or it uses its installation default. Any TrueType font or special bitmap fonts will work. However, TrueType fonts are recommended as they look better, can be properly scaled to the movie size and cope better with different encodings.

You can put your choice in a configuration files which will be read every time Mencoder is run. The system-wide configuration file is in your configuration directory (C:\Program Files\MPlayer on my system), and the user specific one is below that in C:\Program Files\MPlayer\mplayer\config on my system.

Additionally, you can supply a default font in a file called subfont.ttf by copying and renaming the font files of your choice to either location.

[bicker]

As far as I can tell, MPlayer is no longer available, anywhere. I've been using C:\Program Files\KMTTG\mencoder\mplayer, and I don't see syntax examples in the config files for how to specify a different font.

Also, I don't really know enough about TrueType to know how to extract a ttf from a ttc, without downloading yet-more-software, so I'd rather change the config if possible.

[jmemmott]

As far as I can tell, MPlayer is no longer available, anywhere. I've been using C:\Program Files\KMTTG\mencoder\mplayer, and I don't see syntax examples in the config files for how to specify a different font.

Also, I don't really know enough about TrueType to know how to extract a ttf from a ttc, without downloading yet-more-software, so I'd rather change the config if possible.

Last I looked, mplayer is still where it has always been : http://www.mplayerhq.hu

Your Truetype fonts are stored in the \Fonts subdirectory of your operating system: C:\Windows\Fonts on my computer. Even if you change the config, you need to know which font file you want and preferably where it is...

[bicker]

That's SMplayer. It seems like the same program, but nothing worked with T2SAMI when I tried using the mencoder in SMplayer. There is no mencoder at C:\Program Files\SMPlayer\mplayer.

The problem with the Fonts in C:\Windows\Fonts it that they are .ttc files not .ttf.

[jmemmott]

That's SMplayer. It seems like the same program, but nothing worked with T2SAMI when I tried using the mencoder in SMplayer. There is no mencoder at C:\Program Files\SMPlayer\mplayer.

The problem with the Fonts in C:\Windows\Fonts it that they are .ttc files not .ttf.

If you can't find a version that works on the official download page, you might look at the unofficial releases. In truth however, the version you already have should work just fine unless there is more to this issue than setting up your own font. The config files documentation should still be usable.

Edit Note : I just tried the latest unofficial release from http://sourceforge.net/projects/mplayer-win32/files/MPlayer%20and%20MEncoder and it works form me. It includes one .ttf file that can be replaced with your choice.

With respect to fonts, I don't know what to advise. I looked on three computers I have with three different OS's : Windows 2000, Windows XP and Vista. All of them store .ttf files in the fonts directory not .ttc files. Haven't looked at Windows 7 - won't until I can afford/justify the cost.

[bicker]

Yes, I have the one .ttf file in the mencoder folder, but the need is to replace it, and unfortunately my copy of Vista only has .ttc files in the Fonts folder.

Where did you find the config files documentation? :confused:

[jmemmott]

I just use the documentation that came with the sourceforge distribution archive : MPlayer-p4-svn-30075.7z. There is a documentation file, mplayer.html, in the main directory that contains the basics such as command line arguments and configuration files. More detailed information is in the html files in the \docs directory.

Understand that I do not claim to be an expert with mencoder. Typically I use ffmpeg and switch to mencoder only for hardsubs because ffmpeg does such a poor job with those. Most of the configuration I have done has been by trial and error. There are much more sophisticated ways to fine tune font control with Fontconfig and the configuration files in the \fonts subdirectory. However, I am not the one to ask about that because I do not know anything.

[jmemmott]

As a postscript...

I tried creating a simple text configuration file for mencoder in my user configuration directory: C:\Program Files\MPlayer\mplayer\mencoder.conf.

Inside this file, I had only two lines

nofontconfig=1
font=C:\Windows\Fonts\courbd.ttf

When I ran the MPG Stream template in t2sami to hardsub a video, it correctly picked up the Courier Bold font from my Windows font subdirectory to use in formatting the captions. You could try that with your .ttc files to see if the OS will handle the font collection for you.

[bicker]

Okay I'll try that out. Not sure what'll happen if I give it a .ttc file though. :) Thanks!