Time Warner Cable Tuning Adapter (ALL LOCATIONS) / Bugs & Issues

[pmiranda]

You probably had a cable box that tuned analog cable channels.

Now that we're in the wonderful world of digital there are all kinds of new things that can go horribly wrong.

Actually I had a cable box just so I could receive one freaking digital channel: Speedvision.

[unitron]

Actually I had a cable box just so I could receive one freaking digital channel: Speedvision.

Fellow Time-Warner victim, huh?

[pmiranda]

Yeah, I'm starting to feel like a battered wife... Just got a letter this morning that they're increasing my monthly bill $7.

[cwoody222]

I thought there WAS a legal restriction from having local channels be SDV? Time Warner seemed to agree with me once on that, with a tech on the phone.

Either way, it wouldn't make much sense to have a local be SDV anyway since they're probably the most frequently viewed.

My parents - on Time Warner - current use Series2 connected to their SciAtl digital cable box which tunes channels for them. Works like a charm and has forever. No problems changing channels (aside from the occasional mis-fire).

[Deinonych]

All of my local channels are non-SDV, but that doesn't really prove anything I guess. :)

[Deinonych]

Also, I can't get one of my Tuning Adapters to work, despite having spent 45 minutes on line with tech support. The light on the front is blinking steadily, and they couldn't get it to do anything else. They wanted to roll a truck, which I declined for now.

[cwoody222]

Locals are not allowed to be SDV. Ever.

Oh, and your local CSRs are obviously morons. That's not any worse than mine, though.

[kochsr]

i requested a TA like 3 months ago and still don't have one. i'm in durham, nc. any suggestions for actually getting one of these things?

[dlfl]

Also, I can't get one of my Tuning Adapters to work, despite having spent 45 minutes on line with tech support. The light on the front is blinking steadily, and they couldn't get it to do anything else. They wanted to roll a truck, which I declined for now.
Generally a truck roll doesn't fix TA problems BUT it might be worth letting them check your OOB signal levels:

Out-Of-Band-Forward-Data-Channel (OOB-FDC).
The portion of the cable RF range that is used to deliver system or service information to a receiver. Its frequency range is generally 70-130 Mz.

Out-Of-Band-Reverse-Data-Channel (OOB-RDC).
The portion of the cable RF range that is used to deliver data from the home receiver to the headend. Its frequency range is 5-40 Mz.

These are the frequencies used by the TA to communicate with the cable system, and they are absolutely essential to its operation. Now I believe the same OOB channels are also used by your CableCARD(s) but it's possible the levels are low and the CC is more sensitive than the TA. Also, the CC may only use the FDC signal (not sure about that) while the TA needs both.

These frequencies are below the cable TV channel frequencies so can have more attenuation that doesn't show up in the channel reception quality. If you have a truck roll, request them to check signal quality and strength for these OOB bands in particular.

What is the probability a tech will know what OOB means? Who knows? :rolleyes:

[DaveDFW]

After a couple of years of no problems, both my tuning adapters are now flashing and not connecting in North Texas, 75082.

Chat? Useless.
TWC phone? Useless.
Cablecard hotline? Curt and useless.
Cablecard install line? Can't help.

I'm only offered a truck roll for an issue that's obviously on their side. Internet is up, analog channels are fine, cablecards show connections...just the tuning adapters are down.

[unitron]

i requested a TA like 3 months ago and still don't have one. i'm in durham, nc. any suggestions for actually getting one of these things?

Stop by the local TWC office and tell them you want your bill adjusted downward retroactively to reflect all the channels you're paying for but not getting.

[unitron]

After a couple of years of no problems, both my tuning adapters are now flashing and not connecting in North Texas, 75082.

Chat? Useless.
TWC phone? Useless.
Cablecard hotline? Curt and useless.
Cablecard install line? Can't help.

I'm only offered a truck roll for an issue that's obviously on their side. Internet is up, analog channels are fine, cablecards show connections...just the tuning adapters are down.

Drop by the local office, TA's in hand, and say you want to exchange them for ones that work.

[DaveDFW]

Drop by the local office, TA's in hand, and say you want to exchange them for ones that work.

Not the problem. I did pick up two extra ones today, and they do the same thing. The TAs are fine, it's something on TWC's side.

[unitron]

Not the problem. I did pick up two extra ones today, and they do the same thing. The TAs are fine, it's something on TWC's side.

So drop by the office with all of the cable between your house and their head end in your hands and maybe then they'll take you seriously and fix it.:)


Of course we are talking Time-Warner.:(

[lrhorer]

Locals are not allowed to be SDV. Ever.

Please point to the FCC regulation that specifies this.

[lrhorer]

These are the frequencies used by the TA to communicate with the cable system, and they are absolutely essential to its operation. Now I believe the same OOB channels are also used by your CableCARD(s)
No, not quite. The CableCard has neither a modulator nor a demodulator built in. It is strictly a digital device that talks to the host, in this case a TiVo. The FDC (usually 75MHz) is demodulated by the host and the data sent to the CableCard. I don't think the TA has a receiver, at all, but I could be mistaken about that.

but it's possible the levels are low and the CC is more sensitive than the TA.
Uh-uh. First of all, the FDB is right in the middle of the low band. If it were low, then so would be the rest of the low band signals.

The RDC is the return channel. This carrier is produced by the TA itself. There certainly can be problems with the return gain of the CATV system, especially since winter weather has set in in various areas, but your message made it sound as if there would be an issue getting to the TA. The issue would be getting to the headend, not to the TA.

Also, the CC may only use the FDC signal (not sure about that)
It uses the data from the host derived by the host's tuner from the FDC.

Awhile the TA needs both.
Again, that's misleading. It is the headend that needs the RDC, not the TA. The TA most certainly makes use of the data in the FDC - it has to overwrite the CableCard's channel map, but I would expect the TA to obtain the data from the host, just like the CableCard does. It's possible not.

AThese frequencies are below the cable TV channel frequencies so can have more attenuation that doesn't show up in the channel reception quality.
Well, yes and no. They travel different paths, in part, so one path can suffer attenuation the other does not. There are also a number of issues that can affect lower frequencies much more than higher ones, but the RDC is not usually much lower in frequency than channels 2 - 6. Anything that seriously impacts 5 - 30 MHz will also affect 55 - 75 MHz, if it is in the same path. The most common is what is sometimes called a "suck-out", or a "center conductor retraction". In cold weather, the center conductor of a span of aluminum coaxial cable contracts more than the outer shield. This puts a tremendous strain on the pin vise that secures the center conductor in the connector at each end of the span. If the connector was not tightened properly or the connector is of inferior quality, the center conductor can literally pull away from the pin vise so it no longer makes metal-to-metal contact with the center conductor of the connector. RF frequencies can jump this gap, but there is always some attenuation, and the lower the frequency, the more the attenuation. Usually the lower channels - below 100MHz - are almost completely gone in this case.

AIf you have a truck roll, request them to check signal quality and strength for these OOB bands in particular.
The upstream spectrum cannot really be checked from the house. It must be checked at the headend. OTOH, the CSR has the ability to monitor the level of the return signal at the headend. Actually, to a certain limited extent, so does the user. Look in the "Tuning Adapter Diagnostics", under "RF Statistics". If the RDC Power Level is quite high, +54dBmV or more, then it may indicate an issue with the return path. If it is somewhat lower than that, then there probably is not an issue on the return. Note the closer the subscriber is to the node, the higher the RDC output has to be. Any splitters or taps in the path also increase the required transmit level. OTOH, if the subscriber is far from the node and has no splitters in the house, then the RDC power should be comparatively low. I am fairly close to the node (although not right off it), and I have an 8-way and several 2-way splitters in the house. My RDC is +48dBmV.

[dlfl]

..........The upstream spectrum cannot really be checked from the house. It must be checked at the headend. OTOH, the CSR has the ability to monitor the level of the return signal at the headend. Actually, to a certain limited extent, so does the user. Look in the "Tuning Adapter Diagnostics", under "RF Statistics". If the RDC Power Level is quite high, +54dBmV or more, then it may indicate an issue with the return path. If it is somewhat lower than that, then there probably is not an issue on the return. ........
In general thanks for your clarification of the technical details. However the user can't check the TA Diagnostics you refer to if the TA is off line, i.e., blinking all the time, as was posted by Deinonych.

The primary message of my post still stands: The TA problems could be due to OOB signal level problems and the signals should be checked. which in Deinonych's case will require a truck roll, at least for the FDC.

BTW, my FDC freq is 104 MHz (not your "typical" 75 MHz), although this isn't particularly significant.

.......... Note the closer the subscriber is to the node, the higher the RDC output has to be.
Didn't you get this backwards?

[lrhorer]

In general thanks for your clarification of the technical details. However the user can't check the TA Diagnostics you refer to if the TA is off line, i.e., blinking all the time, as was posted by Deinonych.
Well, depending on the blink pattern, that's true.

AThe primary message of my post still stands: The TA problems could be due to OOB signal level problems and the signals should be checked. which in Deinonych's case will require a truck roll, at least for the FDC.
The CableCards do not report the actual signal level of the FDC, but they do report the S/N ratio (which is the really important number) and whether or not there is a signal lock on the FDC, even if no TA is attached or functional.

ABTW, my FDC freq is 104 MHz (not your "typical" 75 MHz), although this isn't particularly significant.
FCC frequency allocations, for reasons having to do with early RF amplifier limitations, place a 10MHz spacing between Channel 4 and 5, rather than the 6MHz spacing between all the other channels, except for the FM radio band between 88MHz and 108MHz. That extra 4MHz gap between 72MHz and 76MHz (known as the guard band) is most often used for OOB control signals such as the CableCard FDC. The CATV company is not required by the FCC to re-broadcast the local FM channels, so the 88MHz - 108MHz spectrum is also up for grabs. This is an "impaired" region, however, because there are very high level RF carriers OTA on these channels. This does not mean those frequencies cannot be used, but doing so can produce operational issues. OTOH, if your local OTA FM band is not jam packed with radio stations, the CTV operator may choose to place the carrier in a frequency slot not occupied by any FM radio stations. They also may simply decide to take a chance with RF interference issues due to signal ingress and place the OOB carrier at the same frequency as several FM carriers. If I were the chief engineer in that CATV system, though, I certainly would not make that decision, given the inevitable trouble calls it would produce. If there is a gap of 1MHz or so in the local FM allocations, however, then I would have no qualms about assigning the FDC in that slot.

ADidn't you get this backwards?
Nope. The further away from the node (or a line extender, if the system employs them), the lower the flat loss, which generally speaking results in less attenuation of the low frequency signals. By the same token, the further away from the node, the higher the cable loss, which means the greater the attenuation of high frequency signals. In some cases, at the very end of the feeder line, the flat loss may be as much as 20dB lower than the flat loss right at the node. Usually the tap at the node has a value around 32dB. Assuming a 30 meter subscriber drop and a 10 meter house drop with a 4-way house splitter, that is about 40dB flat loss plus about 0.75dB cable loss at 10 MHz and about 7.3dB cable loss at 700MHz. At the end of the line, however, the tap value may be as low as 4dB. The flat loss due to taps and splitters in the line along the way is highly variable, but may be as low as 8dB (or in some odd cases even less), while the cable loss at the tap may be as high as 27dB at 700MHz, resulting in a total loss at the receiver of about 51 dB at 700 MHz, of which 19dB is flat loss. Meanwhile the cable loss at the tap at 10MHz is only 2.9dB, making for a total loss at the back of the receiver of 22.7dB versus 39.8dB loss at 10MHz for the subscriber right next to the node. In more densely populated neighborhoods with more taps in the line, the flat loss at the output of the terminal tap will be significantly higher than 12dB, making the difference in attenuation on the low end less striking, but it is nonetheless true in general the farther from the node or line extender, the lower the overall attenuation at lower frequencies.

[unitron]

...

Nope. The further away from the node (or a line extender, if the system employs them), the lower the flat loss, which generally speaking results in less attenuation of the low frequency signals. By the same token, the further away from the node, the higher the cable loss, which means the greater the attenuation of high frequency signals. ...

So is flat loss resistive and cable loss reactive?

[lrhorer]

So is flat loss resistive and cable loss reactive?
No, flat loss is constant (more or less) across the entire usable spectrum. Typically it is the result of splitting off some fraction of the signal. A 2-way splitter, for example, has a flat loss of about 4dB on both legs from the input. An 8dB directional coupler, OTOH, has a flat loss of 8dB from the input to the tap leg and 1dB from the input to the through leg. Coaxial cable, OTOH, has a loss that is proportional to the square root of the frequency. Thus, the loss per unit length at 10MHz is roughly 1/10 the loss at 860Mhz. The CATV engineer adjusts the flat loss in the system (by choosing the appropriate tap values) so the levels that reach the back of the subscriber's receiver are appropriate. That means decreasing the tap values (and thus the overall flat loss) as one moves further way from the amplifier. At first, there is plenty of additional signal level (by design) on the high frequencies, so the flat loss is determined by the levels of the low frequencies. As one moves further down the line, however, the levels of the high frequency channels drop faster than those of the low frequency channels, until at some point the levels of the high channels, which started out higher than those of the low channels, are equal to the levels on the low channels. After that point, the tap values are chosen based upon the levels of the high frequencies. The result is the total flat loss drops faster than the cable loss increases at low frequencies, and thus the farther from the amp, the lower the loss, generally speaking, at low frequencies.

[dlfl]

So is flat loss resistive and cable loss reactive?

No, flat loss is constant (more or less) across the entire usable spectrum. Typically it is the result of splitting off some fraction of the signal. A 2-way splitter, for example, has a flat loss of about 4dB on both legs from the input. An 8dB directional coupler, OTOH, has a flat loss of 8dB from the input to the tap leg and 1dB from the input to the through leg. Coaxial cable, OTOH, has a loss that is proportional to the square root of the frequency. ........
Good discussion lrhorer. Ironically the cable loss is predominantly due to resistance of the cable conductors. Theory (and practice) just say the dB/Meter value varies as the square root of frequency. Here's a nice discussion for those who want to wallow in the theory:
http://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedia/Coaxloss.cfm

[lrhorer]

Good discussion lrhorer. Ironically the cable loss is predominantly due to resistance of the cable conductors.
I never said differently. That's why the highest quality. lowest loss cables have silver plated center conductors, and low loss, heavily braided shielding.

Theory (and practice) just say the dB/Meter value varies as the square root of frequency.
I believe I said that very thing. The original point is however, the engineered loss at low frequencies generally goes down the further one is from an amplifier, while the engineered loss at high frequencies generally goes up. Actually, it jumps up and down a bit, because taps and directional couplers are typically manufactured in 3dB increments, but the losses move generally in the stated directions.

[dlfl]

Good discussion lrhorer. Ironically the cable loss is predominantly due to resistance of the cable conductors. Theory (and practice) just say the dB/Meter value varies as the square root of frequency. Here's a nice discussion for those who want to wallow in the theory:
http://www.microwaves101.com/encyclopedia/Coaxloss.cfm

I never said differently. ......
I believe I said that very thing. .......
Geez! Touchy, Touchy! You missed the irony I guess. (It was that unitron guessed that flat loss was resistive while in fact resistance causes most of the cable loss.)

[unitron]

Geez! Touchy, Touchy! You missed the irony I guess. (It was that unitron guessed that flat loss was resistive while in fact resistance causes most of the cable loss.)

Flat loss and cable loss were terms I had not previously encountered, at least by those names.

The way Les described it made it sound to me like what he was calling flat loss is not frequency dependent, which is a characteristic of resistance, and that what he was calling cable loss is frequency dependent, which is characteristic of capacitive and/or inductive reactance.

[dlfl]

Flat loss and cable loss were terms I had not previously encountered, at least by those names.

The way Les described it made it sound to me like what he was calling flat loss is not frequency dependent, which is a characteristic of resistance, and that what he was calling cable loss is frequency dependent, which is characteristic of capacitive and/or inductive reactance.
Understood ... completely .... from the beginning. The irony is that although flat loss is usually characteristic of resistance (at least for an ideal resistor -- which doesn't exist), the resistance in cable conductors actuallly causes frequency dependent loss.

[unitron]

Understood ... completely .... from the beginning. The irony is that although flat loss is usually characteristic of resistance (at least for an ideal resistor -- which doesn't exist), the resistance in cable conductors actuallly causes frequency dependent loss.

I would venture to say that technically it's not the resistance but the reactance, and thus the impedence, at whatever frequency, that actually causes the part of the loss that's determined by the frequency.

[dlfl]

I would venture to say that technically it's not the resistance but the reactance, and thus the impedence, at whatever frequency, that actually causes the part of the loss that's determined by the frequency.
Take a look at the theory presented in the reference I linked in post #1271. It's the resistance in the conductors that causes this loss.

[RTPGiants]

Ok, so here we go again...I've since added a Tivo Premier with its own cable card and tuning adapter. On the whole, that combo seems to work much more reliably than the HD.

But with that said, my HD was working fine until a few days ago. Now I can't get it to tune any SDV channel despite reboots of all pieces involved. The Premier continues to work fine.

Green light on the TA is solid and RDC/FDC are in normal ranges, but I forget what else I'm supposed to be looking for in cablecard and TA diags. It does seem to take "too long" to get the channel list from the TA when the Tivo is power cycled (there seems to be a too short, too long, just right phenomena with these things).

So anyway, can someone remind me what other diags to look at?

[dlfl]

Ok, so here we go again...I've since added a Tivo Premier with its own cable card and tuning adapter. On the whole, that combo seems to work much more reliably than the HD.

But with that said, my HD was working fine until a few days ago. Now I can't get it to tune any SDV channel despite reboots of all pieces involved. The Premier continues to work fine.

Green light on the TA is solid and RDC/FDC are in normal ranges, but I forget what else I'm supposed to be looking for in cablecard and TA diags. It does seem to take "too long" to get the channel list from the TA when the Tivo is power cycled (there seems to be a too short, too long, just right phenomena with these things).

So anyway, can someone remind me what other diags to look at?
My cable has a fairly typical number of channels, SDV and non-SDV. The "Acquiring Channels" phase takes 2 min 20 secs for me. Sometimes it goes a lot quicker and then I know many channels will be missing.

Maybe you have a bad TA. Try swapping TA's between TiVo's.

What are your FDC/RDC values? Another value is the Tuner value which should be in the -5 to +5 dBmV range I believe.

[RTPGiants]

My cable has a fairly typical number of channels, SDV and non-SDV. The "Acquiring Channels" phase takes 2 min 20 secs for me. Sometimes it goes a lot quicker and then I know many channels will be missing.

Maybe you have a bad TA. Try swapping TA's between TiVo's.

What are your FDC/RDC values? Another value is the Tuner value which should be in the -5 to +5 dBmV range I believe.

On the one that's not working:
FDC: -4 RDC: 51 Tuner: -3

On the one that's working:
FDC: -3 RDC: 54 Tuner: -2

I think those are close enough in range. All other items seem more or less the same, both are "Ready" as status, and Idle/Available for tuning status.

I will try swapping them at some point, but I'd rather not mess with the working setup at the moment.

One thing I did notice is that they have radically different RF IP Addresses. 10.75.210.x vs. 10.75.195.x which seems odd.

[cwoody222]

Same here. "Acquiring Channels" easily takes 2 minutes and that's when it's working fine.

My Series 3 reboot takes 7 minutes. So when I just reboot the TiVo I'm looking at 9 minutes minimal to get back up and running. If I have to reboot the TA that takes another 3 minutes or so that you have to have it unplugged meaning a good 15 minutes or so start-to-finish.

Sucks.

[ToddAllen]

Hopefully someone can offer some advice on a problem I'm having with my Tivo Premiere, Time Warner Cable, and the dreaded Tuning Adapter.

About 2 weeks ago I received a message (on Tivo) that 3 channels had changed from East Coast to West Coast feeds. USAHD, BRAVOHD, and SYFYHD became USAHDP, BRAVOHP, and SYFYHDP. Unfortunately now none of those channels can be tuned. All 3 channels (and ONLY those 3 channels) give the following message: "This Channel is Not Authorized"

After several attempts over the phone, TWC sent out a tech who was also unable to fix the problem. He said it was his second call of the day with the exact same issue - involving the exact same 3 channels - however nobody had a solution. Of course my ticket is still open and "being addressed", but who knows how long that could take. Has anyone experienced a similar problem or know of how it can be resolved?

[unitron]

Hopefully someone can offer some advice on a problem I'm having with my Tivo Premiere, Time Warner Cable, and the dreaded Tuning Adapter.

About 2 weeks ago I received a message (on Tivo) that 3 channels had changed from East Coast to West Coast feeds. USAHD, BRAVOHD, and SYFYHD became USAHDP, BRAVOHP, and SYFYHDP. Unfortunately now none of those channels can be tuned. All 3 channels (and ONLY those 3 channels) give the following message: "This Channel is Not Authorized"

After several attempts over the phone, TWC sent out a tech who was also unable to fix the problem. He said it was his second call of the day with the exact same issue - involving the exact same 3 channels - however nobody had a solution. Of course my ticket is still open and "being addressed", but who knows how long that could take. Has anyone experienced a similar problem or know of how it can be resolved?

Where are you geographically?

[ToddAllen]

Where are you geographically?

I'm in Palm Springs, CA - so Time Warner San Diego / Desert Cities is the region.

[unitron]

I'm in Palm Springs, CA - so Time Warner San Diego / Desert Cities is the region.

Shouldn't TWC have had you on the west coast feed all along?

Of course we're trying to form a concept here that involves both Time-Warner and competence.:D

[ToddAllen]

Shouldn't TWC have had you on the west coast feed all along?

Of course we're trying to form a concept here that involves both Time-Warner and competence.:D

I believe until recently there was only one feed for the HD version of these channels. It looks like USA Networks (which includes the 3 channels in question) just began a separate West Coast HD feed.
Oh, and competence isn't something I've grown to expect from TWC :)

[cwoody222]

The solution seems to be they need to authorize our CCs for the new channels. They "should" be able to do this easily.

If they can't figure it out, refuse to pay until they do or demand they don't stop trying until they do.

This is 100% their problem and their responsibility to fix.

Contact the FCC and report their incompetence if you need to.

Their is zero excuse for them still being unable to handle this stuff.

[lrhorer]

After several attempts over the phone, TWC sent out a tech who was also unable to fix the problem. He said it was his second call of the day with the exact same issue - involving the exact same 3 channels - however nobody had a solution. Of course my ticket is still open and "being addressed", but who knows how long that could take. Has anyone experienced a similar problem or know of how it can be resolved?
This probably cannot be resolved either over the phone or by a technician. Their trying to do either is just wasting their time (I find it difficult to care) and yours (which I value much more highly). Their programming department needs to send updated information to Tribune Media. It's won't hurt to work it from the other end as well, though. Submit a set of incorrect channel assignment reports on TiVo.com.

[lrhorer]

The solution seems to be they need to authorize our CCs for the new channels.
Probably not. It's more likely it's a lineup issue.

They "should" be able to do this easily.
Fairly so, but it's not in the hands of the CSR or the technician, in any case.

[HTH]

"Brownouts"? Exactly what, pray tell, is a "brownout" supposed to be in terms of the RF spectrum on a CATV system?
Not sure, I'm not technically versed, but I remember a few decades ago a similar problem with POTS glitching sometime between 2 and 3 am every day when I ran a dial-up BBS, as well as having problems with signal strength with cable before.

Unless you are manually putting the THD in standby mode, it never "sleeps".
Standby mode, yes. I'm suspecting it mishandles the HDCP handshake if the display is on before the TiVo sends the stream (it doesn't power down the HDMI port entirely while in Standby otherwise my source-sensing video switch would work with two TiVos connected).

The new multi-channel card is working a lot better. While I still get some missed records (first episode of recent Merlin marathon), I had to hit Select to get G4TV to tune today (though I didn't care to watch COPS), and I've had nights were I couldn't tune any of the extra premium digital movie channels in my line-up for hours, I haven't had any complete failures like I had before requiring restarting anything other than the one cable box used for Firewire recording of broadcast channels. And that's always been a problem with the cable boxes. (The timing of such events seem to suggest they're trying to reduce usage over travel holidays when people won't be home.)

[Grunchie]

It's late, and I am wiped from dealing with this problem all day-but I had to post something before I hit the rack. Brand new Elite. Hellish time connecting, but was finally able to complete set-up after basically disconnecting everything from the Tivo except the coax feed. I have the feeling that the set-up was so hellish because of this stupid tuning adapter. Everything appeared to be working well, I was SO excited! Then...the little yellow light of death (the "YOD") began to flash on the front of the infernal Motorola adapter that TW Cable infected, I mean supplied, me with. Solid light good. Flasing light=YOD. I "recycled" the unit (which in this case basically means yanking the cord out, no switch) many, many times and have come to the conclusion that this does nothing at all. The brain-trust at TW Cable "re-authorized" (whatever the hell that means) 10 times. YOD. I recycled the Tivo, re-seated the cable card, burned incense, whispered incantations, spoke to Tivo tech support, was bumped up to "escalated tuning adapter support". I did it all. YOD. Off and on it goes. The thing starts communicating again when it decides to, regardless of what I do to it. YOD. It usually takes 5-10 minutes, then it just starts communicating again, the Tivo then lets me know that SURPRISE, I have a tuning adapter installed! This is happening twice an hour or so, and is happening now as I write. It nukes any and all recordings in the process. INFURIATING. They are sending out a service guy tomorrow to check the signal, etc., but I am not at all hopeful. The signal is just fine. I just think the technology sucks. I am going to see the YOD in my sleep. We'll see what magic the service guy performs, but I think I will spend the next several days hassling with the return of the Tivo and the refund of the lifetime license I bought. TW has absolutely no incintive to provide good tech or equipment or service in this case. FCC fines? Bah. This thing gets up and running and they lose the $22/Month I pay for the DVR and services for that one box. Multiply that by millions and it doesn't take a genius to figure out why they provide such crappy equipment and services in this case. I was a fool to think they would, because it is a "mandate" by the feds. Now I am paying for my foolishness. From the pages and pages of blogs on this issue, it is quite apparent that so are many others.

[lrhorer]

INFURIATING. They are sending out a service guy tomorrow to check the signal, etc., but I am not at all hopeful. The signal is just fine.
How do you know that? What is the RDC level?

I just think the technology sucks.
No, but the TA was badly engineered.

This thing gets up and running and they lose the $22/Month I pay for the DVR and services for that one box. Multiply that by millions and it doesn't take a genius to figure out why they provide such crappy equipment and services in this case.
No, but perhaps it does require something more than a fool to realize they are losing money on leasing that DVR, and multiplying that loss by millions doesn't make for a good incentive of anything.

There are not "millions and millions" of TiVo owners who are also TWC subs. *THAT* is why they have little incentive to bother with them.

I was a fool to think they would, because it is a "mandate" by the feds. Now I am paying for my foolishness. From the pages and pages of blogs on this issue, it is quite apparent that so are many others.
Not so many. The TA is not stable, of that there is no question, but very few people are having intractable persistent issues.

[unitron]

...they are losing money on leasing that DVR...

Just out of curiousity, how much per month for how long would one have to charge before one got back all of the wholesale price originally paid for that DVR, plus lost interest on the money spent on it?

[Grunchie]

I know the RDC level is fine because I have lived here 25 years and they have been out before, many times. They will check it again today. And today they will tell me it is fine. Again.

Of course they are not losing money by leasing the DVR. State your source. Flat-out wrong. And when DVR's come back, they are factory refurbished and sent out to the next subscriber. My source is a TW insider on this issue. Also, read my quote. Who said "Millyuns and Millyuns?" Not me, Carl Sagan, maybe. I said millions. Time Warner operates in 28 states and has 12 million subscribers, give or take (Source: CNET) You think it is out of the realm of possibility that there are a million or more DVR's out there? It's not just Tivo, there are a number of devices that require a cable card, and more coming to market every day.

Thanks for your support and suggestions and not just nit-picking. Really helpful.

[cwoody222]

I'm with Grunchie... signal levels have, time and time again, proven to NOT be the cause but almost always are the cable co's first thing to blame and try to "fix".

And they do make more money on their own boxes (even only the additional services like PPV) so monthly revenue IS at least one reason why they don't like to support TA's.

The cable co's have had years and years and years - and a federal mandate - to get these working. The fact that they still work as poorly as they do speak volumes about the feds, the cable co's motivations, and the future of 3rd party DVRs.

[Grunchie]

Thank you so much Chris. Well stated and thoughtful...

[Grunchie]

The TW guy is here right now. The signal at the device is +10db, it is rocking strong, as I already knew. +1db is acceptable according to my TW guy here. Now, replacing tuning adapter, cable card, tracing line back to source and checking the entire run.

[Denyi]

The TW guy is here right now. The signal at the device is +10db, it is rocking strong, as I already knew. +1db is acceptable according to my TW guy here. Now, replacing tuning adapter, cable card, tracing line back to source and checking the entire run.

In my experience as a former field tech who has assisted in more installs then I care to remember. There is such a thing as too much signal. It has been my experience that the best range for all the CC devices out there is to make sure the high and low bands are between +7 to -7 and the RDC should be between 35-55.

[Grunchie]

Well, who knows? The new tuning adapter and card synced up, the line was checked (SNR, signal to noise ratio: 36. Very Clean, stong signal. But I knew that). Now time to observe. And now I have lots of partial recordings to watch, wait WHO was the KILLER? Argh! Maybe ME if this thing starts dropping again...

Cheers.

[Grunchie]

By the way Denyi, thanks for the reply...if it starts dropping again, maybe we will take that into account. What is the cure for too strong a signal? Can they put a filter on it or something to bring it within range?

[Grunchie]

Also, is there a field that reports the RDC anywhere...?

[dlfl]

....... Time Warner operates in 28 states and has 12 million subscribers, give or take (Source: CNET) You think it is out of the realm of possibility that there are a million or more DVR's out there? It's not just Tivo, there are a number of devices that require a cable card, and more coming to market every day.
.......
There definitely are NOT a million or more TiVo DVR's out there. There were 548,000 CableCARDs installed in retail devices (not just TiVo's) as of 9/30/11 (http://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/ecfs/document/view?id=7021712021). And TWC probably accounts for less then 25% of that number based on their cable subscriber market share (http://www.ncta.com/Stats/TopMSOs.aspx). Also not all of TWC's 12 million subscribers are digital subscribers, probably less than 80% of them.
........The cable co's have had years and years and years - and a federal mandate - to get these working. The fact that they still work as poorly as they do speak volumes about the feds, the cable co's motivations, and the future of 3rd party DVRs.
That says it in a nutshell. Anyone who's been reading this forum for a while knows this to be true.
In my experience as a former field tech who has assisted in more installs then I care to remember. There is such a thing as too much signal. It has been my experience that the best range for all the CC devices out there is to make sure the high and low bands are between +7 to -7 and the RDC should be between 35-55.
Although Grunchie's experience seems to indicate hot signal was not his primary problem, I would still agree that it is to be avoided. One theory is that long term exposure to hot signals will damage the automatic signal-limiting circuity in the TiVo's tuners.
By the way Denyi, thanks for the reply...if it starts dropping again, maybe we will take that into account. What is the cure for too strong a signal? Can they put a filter on it or something to bring it within range?
Simple in-line attenuators costing only a few bucks will do it. Be sure they're rated for at least 1 GHz bandwith. A quality two-way splitter will give you a 3.5 dB attenuation.
Also, is there a field that reports the RDC anywhere...?
Not sure about Motorola TA's but with the Cisco TA's the FDC and RDC levels and frequencies are reported on the first page of the TA diagnostics.

[lrhorer]

Just out of curiousity, how much per month for how long would one have to charge before one got back all of the wholesale price originally paid for that DVR, plus lost interest on the money spent on it?
Just the hardware by itself costs them $450 - or at least it did 2 years ago, not including shipping or repairs. It also does not include the cost of the software. I don't know how much that costs them, but it is not trivial. I believe the nationwide pricing structure is $19.95 for the first DVR with the DVR tier and $9.95 for each additional DVR. Assuming the average sub gets two DVRs, a reasonable conservative number is probably $1200 on average for shipping, handling, and delivery with software for the pair. At $29.90 per month, that requires more than 40 months to amortize. I seriously doubt the average lifespan of a leased DVR is nearly four years. I know when I was working for a CATV company, the average lifespan of a converter was only about 18 months.

[lrhorer]

I know the RDC level is fine because I have lived here 25 years
That means nothing whatsoever.

and they have been out before, many times.That doesn't mean much more.

They will check it again today. And today they will tell me it is fine. Again.
Why don't you check it before they come? That way you know if they are lying.

Of course they are not losing money by leasing the DVR. State your source.
I am in a related industry, and a couple of years ago, a friend of mine (a vendor to both TWC and to my company) quoted me the cost of a lot of 10,000 new Scientific Atlanta 8300HD DVRs, without software. His selling price was $4,500,000.

Flat-out wrong. And when DVR's come back, they are factory refurbished and sent out to the next subscriber.
They may be outsourcing now, I'll ask a friend who still works for them. I used to work for them, myself. When I did, they did all their own converter repair. The average life of a converter, including refurbishing, was 18 months. I seriously doubt the life of a DVR is more than 40 months. Certainly none of the DVRs TWC purchased back in 2007 are still operational, as they have all been replaced with CableCard models.

I said millions. Time Warner operates in 28 states and has 12 million subscribers, give or take
Not even 0.1% of which are TiVo owners.

(Source: CNET) You think it is out of the realm of possibility that there are a million or more DVR's out there? It's not just Tivo, there are a number of devices that require a cable card, and more coming to market every day.
It would be quite remarkable if I did not know this, since I own one, and have since 2005 (a Mitsubishi 62 inch DLP rear projection TV). I am the only one I know who does, however. Very few devices support CableCards. By far the largest percentage of those devices are TiVos. Less than 0.01% of TWC subs have a non-TiVo UDCP that makes use of a CableCard. Feel free to look up the reports yourself. They are posted on the web every quarter.

[lrhorer]

I'm with Grunchie... signal levels have, time and time again, proven to NOT be the cause but almost always are the cable co's first thing to blame and try to "fix".
That is because it is appropriate. I worked for the CATV company as an engineer for 5 years, and I can tell you that more than 70% of the problems not caused by the customers themselves were level related. The percentage of return problems related to levels is even higher. Unless there is a specific symptom well known to have some other source, one is just wasting time until the levels are corrected.

This has been somewhat ameliorated by fiber delivery systems, but the RF spectrum still walks a fine line between excessive noise and excessive distortion. What's more, since the return amplifiers have no dynamic Automatic Gain Control, upstream levels can be particularly finicky, especially if the subscriber is close to a node and has multiple outlets.

And they do make more money on their own boxes (even only the additional services like PPV) so monthly revenue IS at least one reason why they don't like to support TA's.
They do make money on IPPV and such services, but the only reason they do not make the same money on TiVos with TA is because of their policies. There is nothing physically or technically preventing a TA from providing IPPV. Your point is thus moot. The only reason they do not allow IPPV to be delivered by the TA is the very same reason they don't particularly want to support any 3rd party device.

The cable co's have had years and years and years
Not "years and years". Take a look at the date on the first post in this thread. It was late February, 2009 when the first Cisco TAs were deployed, so just under 3 years.

and a federal mandate - to get these working. The fact that they still work as poorly as they do speak volumes about the feds, the cable co's motivations
No one said they want to support them. They rather vehemently do not, but it has nothing to do with making money on their own DVRs. It has everything to do with their wanting to control every aspect of the subscriber's activities. Part of this is spawned by a near paranoia over service theft. Trust me, I used to have to deal with them, and they nearly have a heart attack at the thought of a single subscriber stealing basic cable.

and the future of 3rd party DVRs.
'Looking brighter and brighter, to me. Resurrect this thread in 3 years, and we'll see.

[lrhorer]

The TW guy is here right now. The signal at the device is +10db
That's too high, although I doubt it is causing any issues with the TA. The TA is essentially immune to downstream issues. If there are downstream issues, they will usually show up on both SDV and linear channels, not just SDV channels. (It's also actually meaningless: dB is not a measure of signal level. It is a measure of attenuation. Signal levels on a CATV system are typically measured in dBmV. People do, however, insist on "abbreviating" "dBmV" or "dBm" to "dB". It is not an abbreviation, though. They are three distinctly different things.)

If he told you "the signal is +10dBmV", then he almost surely lied. It is rather rare for the rf spectrum to be flat at the receiver. Near the node or amp, there will be a tilt of nearly 9dB, with the highest frequency channels being up to 9dB hotter than the lowest frequency channels. At the far end of the CATV line, furthest away from the node or amp, the lowest frequency channels may be as much as 10dB higher in level than the highest frequency channels. At the back of the set, it may even be a bit more. Only customers near the middle of the feeder will have levels that are flat within 1 dB.

If the lowest level channel is +10 dBmV, then I suspect the system may be improperly balanced, although this is by mo means certain. It depends upon the system topology (including the house) and the design specs. If no linear channels are giving you trouble, then I would not tend to think it an issue, however. Without being there and observing myself, it is hard to say.

it is rocking strong, as I already knew. +1db is acceptable according to my TW guy here.
That's actually rather hot, at least if the entire spectrum is +1dBmv (not +1dB) or more. OTOH, fiber based systems are somewhat less susceptible than pure aluminum systems to distortion from higher signal levels, and most TWC systems are 750 MHz, which means they can get away with slightly higher levels, still.

Now, replacing tuning adapter, cable card, tracing line back to source and checking the entire run.
Nothing you ( or evidently he) reported is at all likely to be related to a TA issue, and if downstream levels are good at your receiver, then there is little or no point in checking any downstream levels back towards the headend. Since the problem is limited to your TA, there is little point in checking anything related to downstream levels, and certainly nothing along the way toward the headend. If it is an upstream problem, then the place to check is on your TiVo, which I suggested you do and you ignored.

[lrhorer]

In my experience as a former field tech who has assisted in more installs then I care to remember. There is such a thing as too much signal.
Actually, it is one of the most common problems. Almost all distortion above engineered specs is caused by high levels. A bad amplifier can do it, and on very rare occasions oxidation of the aluminum conductors can actually produce distortion, but both are unusual sources for distortion.

It has been my experience that the best range for all the CC devices out there is to make sure the high and low bands are between +7 to -7
That's actually a bit on the high side, especially for an 860 MHz or 1GHz system.

and the RDC should be between 35-55.
Well, unless the TA is malfunctioning, a low RDC doesn't really suggest a problem, at least not for the customer in question, but it would be fairly difficult to come up with a customer whose return feed only needs to be +35dBmV at the TA. Someone at the very end of a very long feeder with only 1 outlet might manage it. If the RDC is over 52, though, and the customer has 4 or fewer outlets, a +52 dBmV RDC is rather high, and may suggest a problem. I have 8 outlets and am rather close to a node, yet my RDC is only +49 dBmV.

[dlfl]

...........Not even 0.1% of which are TiVo owners.
.............
Wrong by a huge factor! No need to exagerate to make the point it's a tiny fraction. The true number is somewhere between 0.5% and 1.0%. See the numbers and links in my post #1302 in this thread.

[lrhorer]

Wrong by a huge factor! No need to exagerate to make the point it's a tiny fraction. The true number is somewhere between 0.5% and 1.0%. See the numbers and links in my post #1302 in this thread.
Yeah, I did. Time Warner has roughly 14,000,000 subsribers, and according to the document you posted, they have 53,500 CableCard subscribers. That is 0.38% Some number of those are Moxis or CabelCard TVs, although I suspect less than 10% The actual number is clearly lower than 0.38%, but by how much I don't know for certain. 0.1% may be a low estimate, but not "a huge factor". It's not even a half an order of magnitude. OTOH, the number of TiVos would have to be higher by far more than an order of magnitude before the CATV companies would be sanguine about supporting them. I do also have to question their report. Charter is reporting about 43% of their deployed CableCards are S-Cards, while TWC claims considerably less than 27% of their CableCard deployments are S-Cards, by extrapolation from their numbers.

[dcstager]

Having long experience dealing with the Tuning Adapter and Time Warner I've noticed that tuning failures are affected by the number of people on the system changing channels and watching TV. This may seem obvious but during the summer I didn't suffer failures very often. When the new shows started coming back in the fall, the tuning failures began again. By tuning failures, I'm talking about scheduling a recording or having a season pass on a Switched Digital Video channel not recording or resulting in a blank recording.

If this sort of thing never happened, I'd be fine with the hassle of a tuning adapter. I've noticed that if you schedule a recording online at Tivo.com this somehow affects the Tuning Adapter or possibly the Tivo or cable card(s) and you'll get a lot of tuning failures unless you reset the Tuning Adapter. Haven't read about anyone else with this problem, but it's reproducible for me.

So in my opinion the problem could be fixed in software by the cable company - whatever software handles SDV allocations (Big Band Networks) or by Tivo programming around the cable software inadequacies with error checking and retune requests rather than recording a blank or not recording at all.

[dcstager]

Question for the TA experts - from my Diagnostics screen:

Tuner: 747.000 MHZ
FDC: 74.000 MHZ
RDC: 23.500 MHZ
Tuner: 6 dBmV
FDC: 0 dBmV
RDC: 40 dBmV
Tuner: 0/sec (avg)
FDC: 0/sec (avg)
RDC: 703 uSec


Anything wrong here? Anything a service call might help?

[SCSIRAID]

In my view... the signal is hot... +6 is a lot. My preference would be something closer to -2 or -3. But... you also have tilt with 0dBmv FDC (low frequency) and +6 dBmv high frequency.

Are you using the 'pass thru' from TA to TiVo? The Cisco TA is reported to have gain which puts even more signal into the TiVo...

If it were me, I would split before the TA and drive the TA from one side of the split and the TiVo from the other with a 3dB attenuator in the side that drives the TiVo.... but thats me.

Do you have an amp involved? It would seem to get those numbers you would have to?

[dcstager]

In my view... the signal is hot... +6 is a lot. My preference would be something closer to -2 or -3. But... you also have tilt with 0dBmv FDC (low frequency) and +6 dBmv high frequency.

Are you using the 'pass thru' from TA to TiVo? The Cisco TA is reported to have gain which puts even more signal into the TiVo...

If it were me, I would split before the TA and drive the TA from one side of the split and the TiVo from the other with a 3dB attenuator in the side that drives the TiVo.... but thats me.

Do you have an amp involved? It would seem to get those numbers you would have to?

I am using the pass thru from the TA to the Tivo - no amp. I have a splitter and an attenuator as you describe... The numbers that changed are:

Tuner: 3 dBmV
FDC: -1 dBmV
RDC: 43 dBmV

All the other numbers unchanged

[xnappo]

I am using the pass thru from the TA to the Tivo - no amp. I have a splitter and an attenuator as you describe... The numbers that changed are:

Tuner: 3 dBmV
FDC: -1 dBmV
RDC: 43 dBmV

All the other numbers unchanged

Those numbers look perfect to me.

xnappo

[dlfl]

Yeah, I did. Time Warner has roughly 14,000,000 subsribers, and according to the document you posted, they have 53,500 CableCard subscribers. That is 0.38% Some number of those are Moxis or CabelCard TVs, although I suspect less than 10% The actual number is clearly lower than 0.38%, but by how much I don't know for certain. 0.1% may be a low estimate, but not "a huge factor". It's not even a half an order of magnitude. OTOH, the number of TiVos would have to be higher by far more than an order of magnitude before the CATV companies would be sanguine about supporting them. I do also have to question their report. Charter is reporting about 43% of their deployed CableCards are S-Cards, while TWC claims considerably less than 27% of their CableCard deployments are S-Cards, by extrapolation from their numbers.
I can't find the basis for claiming 14M TWC subscribers. The number given in the NCTA data I linked is a little over 12M. This translates to 0.44% using CableCARDs. Even after reducing this to account for non-Tivo devices the result is 3 or 4 times the 0.1% you threw out. I agree that it's too small to give TiVo owners any clout with TWC, but picking a number out of thin air to make that point is still not justifiable. It tends to undermiine the credibility of the many other facts you post.

[cwoody222]

They may be outsourcing now, I'll ask a friend who still works for them. I used to work for them, myself. When I did, they did all their own converter repair. The average life of a converter, including refurbishing, was 18 months. I seriously doubt the life of a DVR is more than 40 months. Certainly none of the DVRs TWC purchased back in 2007 are still operational, as they have all been replaced with CableCard models.


That's it?! That hardware is shotty, then. I've had my Series3 since the first month or so that they were available at retail (fall of 2006, I believe) and it still works flawlessly. That's 60+ months.


No one said they want to support them. They rather vehemently do not, but it has nothing to do with making money on their own DVRs. It has everything to do with their wanting to control every aspect of the subscriber's activities.


And why do they want to control all aspects? So they can sell you more - and more profitable - services.

(not that I'm saying there's anything wrong with that, there's not, they are a business)

[jiffyspam]

That's it?! That hardware is shotty, then. I've had my Series3 since the first month or so that they were available at retail (fall of 2006, I believe) and it still works flawlessly. That's 60+ months.



And why do they want to control all aspects? So they can sell you more - and more profitable - services.

(not that I'm saying there's anything wrong with that, there's not, they are a business)



By having a cable card device, you're not doing PPV or OD. This deprives TWC of a very lucrative revenue stream.

[lrhorer]

I can't find the basis for claiming 14M TWC subscribers. The number given in the NCTA data I linked is a little over 12M. This translates to 0.44% using CableCARDs. Even after reducing this to account for non-Tivo devices the result is 3 or 4 times the 0.1% you threw out. I agree that it's too small to give TiVo owners any clout with TWC, but picking a number out of thin air to make that point is still not justifiable. It tends to undermiine the credibility of the many other facts you post.
It means the difference between 99.5% of subscribers using TWC leased gear, and 99.9%. The difference is completely insignificant. Muiltiply the number by a factor of ten, and it makes for 97% or so of the boxes being leased, and the number of TiVos is still insignificant. Only if the number of TiVos increased by a factor of 100 or substantially more would the percentage of subs using the TiVo be high enough to warrant TWC's interest in the platform. The difference between 0.1% and 0.5% is trifling. It's nothing even remotely like a "huge factor".

[lrhorer]

That's it?! That hardware is shotty, then. I've had my Series3 since the first month or so that they were available at retail (fall of 2006, I believe) and it still works flawlessly. That's 60+ months.
Yes, but you own it, and it cost you a pretty penny. That means you are likely to be careful with it. This is definitely not the case with leased equipment on average. I've seen leased devices come back in dozens of pieces, drowned in body fluids, burned, crushed, and shot with a bullet. A fair number come back in excellent shape, but quite a few never come back in at all. Many people move and just take their DVR with them, probably out of spite. Many get stolen in burglaries, or are destroyed by file, flood, earthquake, or lightning. You are also missing the point that they are compelled to continually upgrade their equipment. I imagine few, if any, CATV systems still use the 8300HD any longer, for example. Most have upgraded to the 8300HDC.

And why do they want to control all aspects? So they can sell you more - and more profitable - services.
There is an aspect of that in the mix, but it's not the major incentive. Just look at the tru2way spec. Most of the policies therein - and indeed all the most unacceptable ones - have no potential for additional profit for them. In fact, they promise to cost them more money in development, but they are intended to be more secure for them and to present fewer engineering and maintenance issues for them.

Again, if greater revenue were the only intent, then they would not by policy refuse to support VOD and IPPV on TA enabled devices. It is 100% by policy, not by any technical limitations that VOD and IPPV are not supported with the TA.

[lrhorer]

By having a cable card device, you're not doing PPV or OD. This deprives TWC of a very lucrative revenue stream.
No, TWC deprives TWC of a very lucrative revenue stream. It's entirely a matter of choice for them.

[Grunchie]

If it is an upstream problem, then the place to check is on your TiVo, which I suggested you do and you ignored.

How do you know what I ignored, or what I did not? I didn't see you standing in the room. And who needs to hear that? What an attitude, I'm just a guy trying to get some friendly advice. I am not an expert in these matters, and I don't claim to be one. That is why I am in this forum. That is also why I was happy to have the Time Warner rep. check everything while he was at my home.

I am in the legal arena, for what it’s worth. When a person drops into my area of expertise, where my knowledge is quite considerable, and theirs typically is not, I am not a jerk to them. I don't condescend, or lord my superior knowledge over them. I try my best to exercise humility. Again, this particular arena is not my area of expertise, so lighten up.

For the record:

1. Yes, we (the TW guy and I) understood that the problem probably did not lie further upstream. The guy was just trying to be thorough. I applaud that and saw nothing wrong with it. We could not figure out what was going on, and the TW guy said sometimes these problems are finicky and sometimes one problem will appear after another is fixed. So… checking everything while the rep. was here sounded like a fine idea to me. I wasn’t paying the guy by the hour. And,

2. Despite your intimate knowledge of a system that you cannot see, the problem WAS with the tuning adapter. The office that I picked the cable card and tuning adapter from supplied me with the wrong power supply. The rep. said he thought it was for a Cisco modem, but it was DEFINITELY NOT for this model tuning adapter. Same voltage, same connector, it did power the thing up and connect intermittently, after all-but when he removed that power supply and connected the correct one, BANG. It synched IMMEDIATELY. I made sure that he replaced the tuning adapter that had been plugged into the wrong power supply.

The signal dropped one time after that, and has been solid since then-I suspect that’s because I inadvertently interrupted power to it.

So, we’ll see.

[dlfl]

It means the difference between 99.5% of subscribers using TWC leased gear, and 99.9%. The difference is completely insignificant. Muiltiply the number by a factor of ten, and it makes for 97% or so of the boxes being leased, and the number of TiVos is still insignificant. Only if the number of TiVos increased by a factor of 100 or substantially more would the percentage of subs using the TiVo be high enough to warrant TWC's interest in the platform. The difference between 0.1% and 0.5% is trifling. It's nothing even remotely like a "huge factor".
As I said before, I already agree with you that the number of TiVo users is a tiny, almost insignificant, fraction of cable TV subscribers. Obviously you're free to make the point over and over again if you please. I've made it many times myself, only usually I try not to repeat it over and over again in the same thread. And I don't use bogus numbers (your 0.1%), that have no basis in fact, to make the point.

[Eccles]

I've noticed that if you schedule a recording online at Tivo.com this somehow affects the Tuning Adapter or possibly the Tivo or cable card(s) and you'll get a lot of tuning failures unless you reset the Tuning Adapter. Haven't read about anyone else with this problem, but it's reproducible for me.


Most peculiar. I've been a TA user since the beta tests, and I have trouble recalling *any* problems with missed recordings that weren't due to power problems or the eventual death of my original TA. I also make regular use of online scheduling with no observed ill-effects. I wonder why it affects your so regularly.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[SMerr]

I've got an interesting problem with my Cisco tuning adapter. Whenever I turn on my stereo to watch Tivo in surround sound, it causes my Time Warner/Austin, Texas Cisco tuning adapter to reboot. I've switched the original adapter for one I have attached to another TV, now the new one does it. I've moved the adapter, changed the wiring so that the Stereo does not connect to Tivo, and I've plugged the adapter into a separate electrical outlet...nothing seems to help. Could the Stereo amplifier be creating a magnetic field that screws up the adapter? Like many others, I am about to just disconnect it so I don't have problems, since it only effects seldom viewed channels.

[PedjaR]

...
They may be outsourcing now, I'll ask a friend who still works for them. I used to work for them, myself. When I did, they did all their own converter repair. The average life of a converter, including refurbishing, was 18 months. I seriously doubt the life of a DVR is more than 40 months. Certainly none of the DVRs TWC purchased back in 2007 are still operational, as they have all been replaced with CableCard models.
...
Actually, none is a bit too strong a word there. There is some indication (stated several times in a rather long thread
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=723830, for example) that, while it is true that TWC does not offer them any more, people are holding on to their existing 8300HD boxes and refusing to upgrade to newer boxes. This is because the corresponding version of TWC Navigator software runs much faster and is more stable than the version running on its cable card replacement, 8300HDC, and, apparently, the same is true (to a lesser degree) of the boxes newer than 8300HDC.

[unitron]

I've got an interesting problem with my Cisco tuning adapter. Whenever I turn on my stereo to watch Tivo in surround sound, it causes my Time Warner/Austin, Texas Cisco tuning adapter to reboot. I've switched the original adapter for one I have attached to another TV, now the new one does it. I've moved the adapter, changed the wiring so that the Stereo does not connect to Tivo, and I've plugged the adapter into a separate electrical outlet...nothing seems to help. Could the Stereo amplifier be creating a magnetic field that screws up the adapter? Like many others, I am about to just disconnect it so I don't have problems, since it only effects seldom viewed channels.

If that separate electrical outlet is in the same room, chances are it's on the same circuit.

It could be that the current draw of that stereo when it's first turned on causes just enough of a voltage dip to screw up the TA.

Of course you should have the TiVo, the TA, and any other cable box type stuff on a UPS, but find an outlet in a nearby room not on the same circuit (flip breakers until you sort it out) and run an extension cord and plug the TA into that and then turn on the stereo and see what happens.

[dcstager]

Most peculiar. I've been a TA user since the beta tests, and I have trouble recalling *any* problems with missed recordings that weren't due to power problems or the eventual death of my original TA. I also make regular use of online scheduling with no observed ill-effects. I wonder why it affects your so regularly.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

I've got an original Series 3 with two cable cards and you have a single card Tivo HD. I have a Cisco TA. I'm going to opine that your node does not have as many subscribers as mine and less competition for the bandwidth. I'm sure the Big Band software is not perfect and there are some combination of user channel requests that result in some users not getting the requested channel. As you can see from the thread here, many people have this problem with the tuning adapter.

[m_jonis]

Most peculiar. I've been a TA user since the beta tests, and I have trouble recalling *any* problems with missed recordings that weren't due to power problems or the eventual death of my original TA. I also make regular use of online scheduling with no observed ill-effects. I wonder why it affects your so regularly.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

Consider yourself fortunate. At least once every month or two, my TA will have problems.

I've got THREE TivoHD, I've gone through 5 actually in total (replaced two of them to no avail). I've replaced 6 TA as well. The usual symptom is that I'll sit down and turn on the TV only to find the "gray" screen of death. The ONLY fix I've found is to reboot the entire Tivo.

I can be watching TV on one channel (regardless of whether it's SDV or not) and switch tuners, only to find the gray screen. Once that happens, if I switch back, that channel is now unavailable. It even affects non-SDV channels.

If I unplug the TA, the Tivo will see that it's unplugged/disconnected, however, plugging the TA back in and letting it "boot up" will not cause the Tivo to see the TA at all. Only a reboot of the TA

During these lovely episodes, I particuarly enjoy going into my now playing list, only to find a recording of 1 minute due to this problem.

Before the TA, no problems at all. BTW, we're using the crummy Cisco TA and Scientifc Atlanta M-cards.

It seems to be something with the TA and the USB connection to the Tivo (why else would the Tivo not "detect" the plugged in USB cable or powered on TA until it reboots the Tivo itself).

I'd normally say it's just the one Tivo, but all three have the problem, although when it happens they don't exhibit it at the same time. but fairly close (like I'll know within a few days, the others will have the problem as well).

I'd love to switch to FIOS, but Verizon is missing a ton of HD channels that I've become used to.

[cwoody222]

My TA screwed up last night on two back-to-back shows meaning it didn't record them. Once I tuned them myself it worked again. But I rebooted everything just to be sure.

God I hate those tuning adapters.

[notting]

Had a weird occurence happen again tonight that's happened 3 or 4 times in the past few months.

All SDV channels will suddenly go mute. They'll tune fine, but be silent. Recordings will also be silent.

Linear channels are fine, though, and can be heard normally.

Rebooting the TA seems to fix it. Why? Are the video and audio separate streams, and it's confused about where one is?

[unitron]

Had a weird occurence happen again tonight that's happened 3 or 4 times in the past few months.

All SDV channels will suddenly go mute. They'll tune fine, but be silent. Recordings will also be silent.

Linear channels are fine, though, and can be heard normally.

Rebooting the TA seems to fix it. Why? Are the video and audio separate streams, and it's confused about where one is?

The channels fed into the SDV allocator probably go through their own video and audio pre-amp/conditioner.

Someone at TWC probably tripped over a power cord.

When in doubt, play the odds and blame Time-Warner.

[kochsr]

i still can't get TW north carolina (durham) to actually give me a TA. any suggestions on how to make it actually happen?

[dcstager]

Just wanted to add a note to this long thread because Tivo has written a fix to the problem the tuning adapter and/or the Tivo not being able to tune a switched digital video channel fast enough resulting in a blank recording or a missed recording.

The only problem for Series 3 owners is that this fix is for the Tivo Elite. Yeah, I finally gave up on the 3 - lured away by four tuners and all the great Ipad/Iphone apps.

But, I've been using it and there is actually an on-screen message that says for a flash of a second that the Tivo had difficulty tuning the channel and is sending a retune request and then a near instant retuning of the desired channel. So, whoever's fault it was, Tivo seems to have addressed it on the newer machines.

It took a long time to get the Elite setup and transfer all the season passes and go through the channel listings, ticking only the stations I actually get... but I have to say that once that is done, my Time-Warner cable service and four tuner Tivo Elite is pretty sweet. I recorded four SDV programs on different channels at the same time and it worked.

I want to acknowledge all the help I've received here, especially troubleshooting the Tuning Adapter and getting the signal levels just so with splitters and attenuators so it is in the sweet spot. I'm sure things would not be working so well without these important tweaks. And thanks to the people who posted the tips about contacting Time-Warner and which number to call and what numbers they need and telling us all about the CSR screens -- I got my cablecard properly paired and working without a truck roll and without having to deal with someone clueless - the CSR I had knew what he was doing -- and I had the right answers to his questions immediately because of the prior postings of experts on this forum.

[pmiranda]

I've noticed that message on my Premiere, but I've also still had channels that wouldn't tune, and only after I manually rocked up and down a channel would it retune.
It's not frequent, but it happens. I suspect that the S3 made some attempt to retune as much as the Premiere, but it just doesn't put up a message?

[dcstager]

pmiranda - I got a lot more reliable performance on my Series 3 when I split the signal to the TA and Tivo and didn't connect the Tivo to the passthrough output of the tuning adapter. If you haven't tried that already, I think that alone make things more reliable.

[m_jonis]

Just wanted to add a note to this long thread because Tivo has written a fix to the problem the tuning adapter and/or the Tivo not being able to tune a switched digital video channel fast enough resulting in a blank recording or a missed recording.

The only problem for Series 3 owners is that this fix is for the Tivo Elite. Yeah, I finally gave up on the 3 - lured away by four tuners and all the great Ipad/Iphone apps.

But, I've been using it and there is actually an on-screen message that says for a flash of a second that the Tivo had difficulty tuning the channel and is sending a retune request and then a near instant retuning of the desired channel. So, whoever's fault it was, Tivo seems to have addressed it on the newer machines.

It took a long time to get the Elite setup and transfer all the season passes and go through the channel listings, ticking only the stations I actually get... but I have to say that once that is done, my Time-Warner cable service and four tuner Tivo Elite is pretty sweet. I recorded four SDV programs on different channels at the same time and it worked.

I want to acknowledge all the help I've received here, especially troubleshooting the Tuning Adapter and getting the signal levels just so with splitters and attenuators so it is in the sweet spot. I'm sure things would not be working so well without these important tweaks. And thanks to the people who posted the tips about contacting Time-Warner and which number to call and what numbers they need and telling us all about the CSR screens -- I got my cablecard properly paired and working without a truck roll and without having to deal with someone clueless - the CSR I had knew what he was doing -- and I had the right answers to his questions immediately because of the prior postings of experts on this forum.

That stinks. Only for those that shell out the money for the new one (you'd think it'd just be a software update). oh well. Probably won't have Tivo by the end of next year anyway (I'd rather get a Ceton card instead).

[MeInDallas]

pmiranda - I got a lot more reliable performance on my Series 3 when I split the signal to the TA and Tivo and didn't connect the Tivo to the passthrough output of the tuning adapter. If you haven't tried that already, I think that alone make things more reliable.

I've never heard of anyone doing that. What do you do just connect one line to the TA and then one to the Tivo directly? And it still works that way? Hmmm I might have to try that and see what happens.

[dlfl]

Just wanted to add a note to this long thread because Tivo has written a fix to the problem the tuning adapter and/or the Tivo not being able to tune a switched digital video channel fast enough resulting in a blank recording or a missed recording.
.........
Interesting. Could you furnish a link that gives info on this fix?

[dcstager]

Interesting. Could you furnish a link that gives info on this fix?

Don't have a link. Just noticed the on screen message when it happened and I'm making an assumption here. I like the Elite. Very nice. Operation of the menus is a bit different and it has 30 second "slip" instead of skip. Still learning the nuances. MoCA internet - awesome. That is the way to go with Tivos.

[cwoody222]

I just replaced my S3 with a Premiere a few weeks ago. Until last night, I hadn't missed a SDV ch change.

But last night was worse than I'd had on my S3. I turned on the TV this morning to see a message that there was no SDV adapter connected at all.

I could clear that message but live TV was just black. No button presses would respond (ch up, TiVo, etc). Finally, a few minutes later, all the button presses went thru. And, all channels seem to work.

I rebooted just in case.

[pmiranda]

Don't have a link. Just noticed the on screen message when it happened and I'm making an assumption here. I like the Elite. Very nice. Operation of the menus is a bit different and it has 30 second "slip" instead of skip. Still learning the nuances. MoCA internet - awesome. That is the way to go with Tivos.

I happened last night for me... I was checking to make sure SPEED was tuning in before F1 practice and I got the message on a black screen but it didn't tune in until I went up a channel and back down. Maybe it has a really long timeout on each attempt but I wasn't that patient.

As for splitting the signal before the TA, I hit upon that myself during the TA beta test when the amplifier in my first TA died and wouldn't pass through any signal on its output. The TA seems much more tolerant of poor signal, so I have a 3-way splitter feeding my two TiVos and a second splitter feeding the TA, TV, and HTPC. You'll always get good signal strength from the TA out (unless its dead), but for best signal-to-noise you want the least stuff between your TiVo and the curb. If you need an amp, put it as close to the curb as you can get.

[dcstager]

I guess I was wrong about the fix. My Tivo Elite had a missed recording last night on a SDV channel. First one in a week though. This is a pesky problem indeed.

[pmiranda]

After a power outage the other night, the link to my TA crapped out and my Premiere was saying it was trying but couldn't tune anything. Rebooted the TA and it recovered flawlessly.

[dcstager]

Does anyone in Austin know if TW has any Motorola Tuning Adapters in use, or are they all Cisco's?

[Max Camber]

Does anyone in Austin know if TW has any Motorola Tuning Adapters in use, or are they all Cisco's?

I believe that they are all Cisco, though that is based on information from a year ago.

[pmiranda]

I've only seen the Cisco boxes here, however the install instructions do mention the Motorola boxes: http://www.timewarnercable.com/texas/support/topic.ashx/CableCARD

[dcstager]

I want to tell the Tivo community that the Elite would be the perfect Tivo DVR -- IF I COULD JUST GET THE GD TUNING ADAPTER TO OPERATE RELIABLY! Very frustrating. I truly have done everything. I checked every level replaced every cable. The Tuning Adapter/Switched Digital Video system simply cannot be made reliable. Time Warner here is and has done everything possible and so have I. The last thing I can think of is somehow swapping out the Cisco tuning adapter for a Motorola version. How could I discover if a Motorola tuning adapter is in my local Time Warner inventory? Who could I talk to that will even understand the issue and be willing to assist me?

[unitron]

I want to tell the Tivo community that the Elite would be the perfect Tivo DVR -- IF I COULD JUST GET THE GD TUNING ADAPTER TO OPERATE RELIABLY! Very frustrating. I truly have done everything. I checked every level replaced every cable. The Tuning Adapter/Switched Digital Video system simply cannot be made reliable. Time Warner here is and has done everything possible and so have I. The last thing I can think of is somehow swapping out the Cisco tuning adapter for a Motorola version. How could I discover if a Motorola tuning adapter is in my local Time Warner inventory? Who could I talk to that will even understand the issue and be willing to assist me?

I thought I read somewhere that TAs have to be certain brands and models depending on what they're running at the head end that the TAs have to talk to.

Otherwise it's like trying to use a DirecTV receiver on your Dish Network subscription.

Or BetaMax and VHS.

[pmiranda]

I thought I read somewhere that TAs have to be certain brands and models depending on what they're running at the head end that the TAs have to talk to.

I'm pretty sure that's the case. Any given neighborhood (most likely an entire metro region) is usually either Cisco or Motorola. There are some other brands of Cableco set-tops, but they'll have either a Cisco or Motorola cablecard in them.

Dropping recordings seems to be inherent in SDV... it happened more often with my cableco DVR than it does now with my TiVos.

[MeInDallas]

I have the Motorola's and they work great on the Series 3 and the regular Premiere. On the Elite I'm having the same issue you are. Dropped channels, dropped recordings, black screens. I'll be watching a program and everything is great and out of nowhere all the channels go dead. I've tried everything I know to do. I'm about to just give up on the whole Elite idea. This is the only time I've ever had an issue with Tivo's was when I got the Elite.

[ncted]

Does anyone know if TWC is still doing cable cards without TAs in Raleigh/Durham? All I am looking for is locals in HD with their broadcast cable package.

Thanks,
Ted

[cwoody222]

Does anyone know if TWC is still doing cable cards without TAs in Raleigh/Durham? All I am looking for is locals in HD with their broadcast cable package.

Thanks,
Ted

Highly unlikely that locals would be SDV as they're popular channels. You should be fine.

[TiVoMonkey]

One thing I did notice is that they have radically different RF IP Addresses. 10.75.210.x vs. 10.75.195.x which seems odd.

That's not radically different at all.

Both of those IP's fall in the same /18. That is only 16,384 IPs. I'm sure they serve at least that many customers in the cable hub site you connect to.

[ncted]

Highly unlikely that locals would be SDV as they're popular channels. You should be fine.

Cool. I am moving later this year, and I am not sure I want to stay with DirecTV because of the cost. With Tivo and Broadcast cable, I can just about cut my bill in half. Still not as good as antenna, but I seem to have bad luck with that.

Thanks,
Ted

[unitron]

Cool. I am moving later this year, and I am not sure I want to stay with DirecTV because of the cost. With Tivo and Broadcast cable, I can just about cut my bill in half. Still not as good as antenna, but I seem to have bad luck with that.

Thanks,
Ted

If you're going out of state, I hope that the pain of leaving is offset somewhat by going somewhere with a better cable company than Time-Warner available.

[ncted]

If you're going out of state, I hope that the pain of leaving is offset somewhat by going somewhere with a better cable company than Time-Warner available.

Sadly, I am moving all of 3 miles down the road, so TWC it is. Another alternative is Dish Network with the welcome pack. I'll need to see which would end up costing less.

-Ted

[MirclMax]

I've got a cisco tuning adapter that is stuck blinking 3 lights ... which I believe indicates that it is downloading and installing software. Oddly, the other active tuning adapter is not doing the same thing ...

I can't seem to get it to do anything other than this blinking ... If anyone has any ideas ..... please feel free to post...

[MirclMax]

Well.. I *thought* I had waiting long enough before posting.. but apparently another 5-10 minutes more would have been even better. It seems to have resolved itself.

[unitron]

Sadly, I am moving all of 3 miles down the road, so TWC it is...My most sincere sympathies, fellow TWC victim.

[hellsop]

Every once in a while a small thing comes along that makes the day a little less foreboding.

Calling Time Warner Cable at 7 AM on a Wednesday because I've got a persistent flashy light usually isn't one of them.

"Hi! I think my tuning adapter needs an authorization hit."
"Okay. I can do that for you,"
(Wait, what? I don't have to convince someone to transfer me to CableCard Hell to get this done?)
".. and sent. Okay, you'll need to unplug and plug in your tuning adapter. You might need to do the data cable too."
"The USB one?"
"Yes. Sometimes it takes a little longer because it has to download changes or fresh channel list."

And 70 seconds later, I've got a solid light, all the channels back, and a happy TiVo again.

Who would have thought a TWC call could be that painless, effective, fast, and actually resolve the issue first time? Bernice wins the day.

[pmiranda]

Haha, you must be living right lately. Keep up the good Karma and do something nice for somebody today :-)

[cwoody222]

I will say that my CableCARD switch from my Series3 to Premiere a month ago went very smooth and only took about a 20 min phone call (after a 20 minute hold time).

[dcstager]

I got a blank/missed recording on a non-SDV channel this past Monday. Never happened before. "The video was not available" error message in the recording history for a regular primetime Fox program. I wonder how that happened?

[SCSIRAID]

I got a blank/missed recording on a non-SDV channel this past Monday. Never happened before. "The video was not available" error message in the recording history for a regular primetime Fox program. I wonder how that happened?

Interesting... Which model TiVo?

I saw something perhaps similar a couple times... I would find that a particular show (was from regular networks) got 'stuck' in the ToDoList.. i.e. its record date had passed but it was still in the TDL. If the TiVo (S4) rebooted, it would disappear from TDL and end up in recording history as 'video signal not available' or 'tivo was powered off' (depending on the occurrence).

[pmiranda]

My guess is the connection to the TA got stuck and any recording would fail, since I think once you connect a TA then TiVo checks it for tuning any channel.

[dcstager]

Interesting... Which model TiVo?

I saw something perhaps similar a couple times... I would find that a particular show (was from regular networks) got 'stuck' in the ToDoList.. i.e. its record date had passed but it was still in the TDL. If the TiVo (S4) rebooted, it would disappear from TDL and end up in recording history as 'video signal not available' or 'tivo was powered off' (depending on the occurrence).

It was on my new Tivo Elite. I know I'm in the wrong sub-forum, but the TA issues are still out there causing anxiety. I truly have done absolutely everything possible. I should write my own instructions to document exactly what "doing everything" entails. It's been a three year process so far with the original series 3 with two cablecards and now with an Elite and 4 tuners and one cablecard.

[xcrunner]

Darn...so these issues are still happening? I am currently using a Windows Media Center install w/HDHomerun Prime, which while nice, has its own issues and certain tasks are not as slick as my TiVo HD was, but I don't want to go back to having channels never tune again. That part is pretty reliable with WMC and the Prime...even if it has to try tuning a million times (and tell me how it tried each of those times :mad:)

[dcstager]

The issues are still happening. On my set up it has been happening more and more regularly. SYFY seems to have a lot of problems and so does Travel Channel. Less frequently A&E and AMC, but it sucks to find a blank when you expected to watch Mad Men. In almost every case, the station is tuned properly, but not fast enough for the Tivo. The Tivo expects the video to be there faster than SDV can deliver it and Tivo does not recover when the signal is eventually delivered. I hope the spring update includes something to address this.

[ncted]

My most sincere sympathies, fellow TWC victim.

Can anyone confirm the local broadcast channels in Raleigh/Durham are still not SDV? I have been talking to sales people at TWC, and they seem to think everything is SDV now. I really don't care to repeat my TA experience. If I have to use a TA to get locals, I will just stay with DirecTV.

Thanks,
Ted

[unitron]

Can anyone confirm the local broadcast channels in Raleigh/Durham are still not SDV? I have been talking to sales people at TWC, and they seem to think everything is SDV now. I really don't care to repeat my TA experience. If I have to use a TA to get locals, I will just stay with DirecTV.

Thanks,
Ted

It's not that I can't believe TWC being stupid, but I don't see them being that stupid, at least not for 5 and 11 and whatever the NBC and Fox affiliates up there are these days.

Channels which are that heavily used you put on there at a certain frequency and leave them in the same place all the time.

The Peruvian Knitting and Gourd Carving channel you can risk waiting for someone to ask for before seeing if you have an open slot for it, and possibly having to say "not available at this time".

[ncted]

It's not that I can't believe TWC being stupid, but I don't see them being that stupid, at least not for 5 and 11 and whatever the NBC and Fox affiliates up there are these days.

Channels which are that heavily used you put on there at a certain frequency and leave them in the same place all the time.

The Peruvian Knitting and Gourd Carving channel you can risk waiting for someone to ask for before seeing if you have an open slot for it, and possibly having to say "not available at this time".

I believe the sales people are just being ignorant, but I was looking for confirmation.

Ted

[danplaysbass]

Hi Guys. I'm new to this thread and I'm not really up for reading 46 pages so I'm hoping somebody else has some insight.

I moved from Philadelphia (Verizon FioS) to Kansas City (TWC). Now I am stuck with the two tuning adapters on my tivos.

It all started out ok. I have a TivoHD and a Series 3 OLED. Everything worked fine from the get go. The TivoHD is still working pretty good with hiccups every once in a while where I need to reboot everything.

The other tivo is another story. It worked fine for about 6 months then started having issues. It would have trouble tuning any of the SDV channels on tuner 2. I thought it was the cable cards so I had the them and the tuning adapter swapped out for new ones. The problem persisted and I started reading about the Series 3 OLED power supply issues. Mine was fine but I replaced all the caps in it anyway. Then I started getting the pixelation issues and finally the HD died.

I ended up replacing the OLED with a new premiere and I figured everything would be fine. Nope.

I finished guided setup and the first thing I got was the grey cablecard screen telling me to call TWC to authorize the device. I called and verified that both the cable card and TA were authorized. I had them resend authorizations to both. Still no luck. It works fine on all the local channels but any time you try to tune a SDV channel that grey screen comes up. This has been an ongoing battle for months and I'm sick of it. I have a TWC truck coming out tomorrow to see if they can do anything.

Anybody here have any suggestions?

[lrhorer]

It works fine on all the local channels but any time you try to tune a SDV channel that grey screen comes up.
What about non-local linear channels? Do they come in? If you remove the TA, what difference does it make?

Anybody here have any suggestions?
Have you checked to make sure all the connectors are not loose? Inspect the center conductors of all the cables to make sure there is not a bit of left-over dielectric preventing good contact between the center conductor and the female connector's pin vise. Check the pin vices, too. When the center conductor is removed, the two halves of the pin vice should be touching or nearly touching.

Describe the cable topology. Do you have a single, two-way splitter feeding both systems?

What is the level of the return carrier on both TAs?

[danplaysbass]

What about non-local linear channels? Do they come in? If you remove the TA, what difference does it make?


Have you checked to make sure all the connectors are not loose? Inspect the center conductors of all the cables to make sure there is not a bit of left-over dielectric preventing good contact between the center conductor and the female connector's pin vise. Check the pin vices, too. When the center conductor is removed, the two halves of the pin vice should be touching or nearly touching.

Describe the cable topology. Do you have a single, two-way splitter feeding both systems?

What is the level of the return carrier on both TAs?

How do I identify the non-local linear channels?

I have verified that the cables are good. I believe the system comes in my main line and is split 3 ways, one to each tv and one to the the modem. Thats it. Last time I had the cable tech out he checked the rf levels and said they were sufficient.

[danplaysbass]

Also, the TA seems to boot up properly and I get a solid green light. I assume the CC is functioning properly since I can tune the locals.

[lrhorer]

How do I identify the non-local linear channels?
Anything that is not broadcast locally, but does not require the TA, is non-local and linear. Remove the TA. Anything you get is linear. Put the TA back. Do you lose anything?

I have verified that the cables are good. I believe the system comes in my main line and is split 3 ways, one to each tv and one to the the modem.
Well, that doesn't quite answer it. Is it a 3-way splitter, or a Directional Coupler feeding the modem and a 2-way splitter feeding the TVs? Most CATV companies split off the modem feed using a DC-9 or DC-12, usually prior to the main house splitter. If it is a 3-way splitter, then most 3-way splitters have two -7dB legs and one -3.5dB leg. Some do have three -5dB legs. What feeds the two TVs?

Thats it. Last time I had the cable tech out he checked the rf levels and said they were sufficient.
That really doesn't answer the question. You need to look for yourself. If one of the TAs (presumably the bad one) has a very high return signal level (typically >52 dBmV), then that unit's return signal is having a hard time getting back to the headend. The TA won't work if its upstream carrier doesn't reach the headend. If it has a substantially higher output level than the functional one, then you probably have a problem somewhere between the TA and your house splitter.

Again, what are the return transmit levels on both TAs, respectively?

[lrhorer]

Also, the TA seems to boot up properly and I get a solid green light. I assume the CC is functioning properly since I can tune the locals.
That doesn't necessarily follow. There can be CableCard issues that do not impact clear QAM channels, and the locals are probably clear QAM.

[unitron]

...I'm not really up for reading 46 pages ...

Why not? We had to. :D

[danplaysbass]

Why not? We had to. :D

Sorry. I missed your emoticon. I hate those things!

[cwoody222]

The sad part is that this thread still needs to exist after 3 years.

[unitron]

...I'm pretty sure that a lot of the information is either outdated or irrelevant...

How would you know? You haven't read it.:D:D:D


...If it inconveniences you to have me post here then I sincerely apologize to have ruined your day.

Others (I'm looking at you, lawn mower) will do a much more thorough job of ruining my day up close and personal than you could ever manage over the interwebs, even if you were actually trying to, which I'm sure you're not.

As for inconveniencing me by posting here, it would have inconvenienced me more if you had not, because then I would have been denied the opportunity to kid around with you. :)


But seriously, don't be to quick to write off the past as being without instructional value.

[danplaysbass]

Anything that is not broadcast locally, but does not require the TA, is non-local and linear. Remove the TA. Anything you get is linear. Put the TA back. Do you lose anything?


Well, that doesn't quite answer it. Is it a 3-way splitter, or a Directional Coupler feeding the modem and a 2-way splitter feeding the TVs? Most CATV companies split off the modem feed using a DC-9 or DC-12, usually prior to the main house splitter. If it is a 3-way splitter, then most 3-way splitters have two -7dB legs and one -3.5dB leg. Some do have three -5dB legs. What feeds the two TVs?


That really doesn't answer the question. You need to look for yourself. If one of the TAs (presumably the bad one) has a very high return signal level (typically >52 dBmV), then that unit's return signal is having a hard time getting back to the headend. The TA won't work if its upstream carrier doesn't reach the headend. If it has a substantially higher output level than the functional one, then you probably have a problem somewhere between the TA and your house splitter.

Again, what are the return transmit levels on both TAs, respectively?

So I had the TWC guy out yesterday with no resolution. We looked at everything and he couldn't figure it out. Our setup is as follows:

Main line comes in the house into a 2-way splitter. One goes to the modem and the other to a 15db amp. That amp feeds a 3-way splitter. The two -7 dB ports feed my TA's.

How do I check the levels from the TA? I asked him to do that but we forgot. Is it something I can do? I did have him leave me some 6dB inline attenuators in case I need to knock down the signal some and he left me a new coax line that I may run to see if it is a bad cable run to this particular tv. I'm not convinced that is the problem though because all the local channels work. Is that an accurate statement?

So to reiterate, here is what happens:

With Tivo powered and TA powered (solid green) I can watch local HD channels no problem. As soon as I try to tune to an SDV channel the attached picture pops up on the screen.

[ncted]

So I had the TWC guy out yesterday with no resolution. We looked at everything and he couldn't figure it out. Our setup is as follows:

Main line comes in the house into a 2-way splitter. One goes to the modem and the other to a 15db amp. That amp feeds a 3-way splitter. The two -7 dB ports feed my TA's.

How do I check the levels from the TA? I asked him to do that but we forgot. Is it something I can do? I did have him leave me some 6dB inline attenuators in case I need to knock down the signal some and he left me a new coax line that I may run to see if it is a bad cable run to this particular tv. I'm not convinced that is the problem though because all the local channels work. Is that an accurate statement?

So to reiterate, here is what happens:

With Tivo powered and TA powered (solid green) I can watch local HD channels no problem. As soon as I try to tune to an SDV channel the attached picture pops up on the screen.

Is the amp really needed? I have never had good luck with amps and upstream signals, even when they are supposed to be non-filtering.

-Ted

[jayn_j]

The tuning adapter on my browser must be malfunctioning, as I have recently started receiving posts that are a total non-sequitor :)

[danplaysbass]

Is the amp really needed? I have never had good luck with amps and upstream signals, even when they are supposed to be non-filtering.

-Ted

Probably not. The house was originally wired with a 6 way splitter so in that case maybe. I could take it out with little effort.

[ncted]

Probably not. The house was originally wired with a 6 way splitter so in that case maybe. I could take it out with little effort.

Try it and see. If removing that doesn't help, you can always put it back.

[unitron]

So I had the TWC guy out yesterday with no resolution. We looked at everything and he couldn't figure it out. Our setup is as follows:

Main line comes in the house into a 2-way splitter. One goes to the modem and the other to a 15db amp. That amp feeds a 3-way splitter. The two -7 dB ports feed my TA's.
...

The Tuning Adapter has to send a message back up to the cable company somehow to say "Hey, feed this channel we want to watch to us".

If the way it feeds that message back up the line is through the co-ax on it's own special frequency instead of having to have an internet connection, maybe that signal isn't able to travel "upstream" through that amp that's perhaps only designed to pass stuff going "downstream".

[cwoody222]

Has any SDV problem ever been fixed by sending a technician out to someone's house? ;)

[unitron]

Has any SDV problem ever been fixed by sending a technician out to someone's house? ;)

Yes, but only if the technician was from Dish Network or DirecTV.

[danplaysbass]

The Tuning Adapter has to send a message back up to the cable company somehow to say "Hey, feed this channel we want to watch to us".

If the way it feeds that message back up the line is through the co-ax on it's own special frequency instead of having to have an internet connection, maybe that signal isn't able to travel "upstream" through that amp that's perhaps only designed to pass stuff going "downstream".

Well my other tivo/TA does it just fine...

[unitron]

Well my other tivo/TA does it just fine...

Then swap the TAs around and see if the problem follows them.

If it does, get the one the problem followed replaced.

[danplaysbass]

Then swap the TAs around and see if the problem follows them.

If it does, get the one the problem followed replaced.

I'm a little leery to do this. I'm on my 3rd TA for the dysfunctional box, the current one being brand new. I'm afraid to introduce a problem to my only functioning unit.

[unitron]

I'm a little leery to do this. I'm on my 3rd TA for the dysfunctional box, the current one being brand new. I'm afraid to introduce a problem to my only functioning unit.

Well, then, leave the TAs where they are and swap the TiVos around and see if the trouble travels.

Either way you learn something.

[lrhorer]

So I had the TWC guy out yesterday with no resolution. We looked at everything and he couldn't figure it out. Our setup is as follows:

Main line comes in the house into a 2-way splitter. One goes to the modem and the other to a 15db amp. That amp feeds a 3-way splitter. The two -7 dB ports feed my TA's.
Unless your house is an unusually long way from the subscriber tap, that amplifier is unnecessary. Although there is no hard and fast regulation for this, the CATV company is responsible for delivering acceptable signals to your receivers in any "ordinary" situation. Two TV outlets and a modem is just about as ordinary as it gets.

How do I check the levels from the TA?
Look up the return levels in the TA diagnostics. That's why they are there.

I did have him leave me some 6dB inline attenuators in case I need to knock down the signal some
You already may be verging on too much loss on the return with 11dB splitter loss and 1 or 2 dB loss for the amp. An additional 6dB isn't going to help. If your signals levels are too high, get rid of that amp. If your signal levels are not too high, get rid of that amp. If your signal levels are too low, get rid of that amp and have the CATV company fix their signal level issue. (Again, the exception would be if your cable drops are quite unusually long - typically over 100m, including both house and wall drop.)

and he left me a new coax line that I may run to see if it is a bad cable run to this particular tv. I'm not convinced that is the problem though because all the local channels work. Is that an accurate statement?
I'm not quitre sure how to answer that. It is possible there is something wrong on the cable path - particularly the return - that does not affect non-SDV channels.

With Tivo powered and TA powered (solid green) I can watch local HD channels no problem. As soon as I try to tune to an SDV channel the attached picture pops up on the screen.
Which merely means SDV is not working on that TA. Since the other TA is working, the likely culprit is either the TA itself, it's interface to the TiVo, or the transport system between the splitter and the TA. Note I said likely. There could be an issue which impacts the operation of the TAs to the extent that they are right on the ragged edge, and something about of the situation puches one TA over the edge. Reporting the TA return levels will help rule out that scenario or suggest it more strongly.

I reiterate:

1. Get rid of the amplifier.
2. What are the return levels?

[lrhorer]

Well my other tivo/TA does it just fine...
Which means there is something different between the two. Duh. Reporting the transmit levels will help determine what.

[danplaysbass]

I will do that this weekend and report back. thanks guys.

[danplaysbass]

I will do that this weekend and report back. thanks guys.

So I did the swap out with both tivos and TAs with no luck.. I decided to call tivo to see what they could do. I got a very helpful dude who called TWC and got us straighten out. Thanks for your help.

[unitron]

So I did the swap out with both tivos and TAs with no luck.. I decided to call tivo to see what they could do. I got a very helpful dude who called TWC and got us straighten out. Thanks for your help.

Did Time-Warner give you an answer or explanation that you could make heads or tails of?

[ncted]

OK. I got permission from the wife to get Tivo. Before I take the plunge, what is the current state of tuning adapter reliability in the Raleigh/Durham area? What should I expect as far as tuning adapter problems these days? It seems like maybe things had gotten better based on comments here and in other forums, but I thought it wise to ask.

Thanks,
Ted

[ncted]

OK. I got permission from the wife to get Tivo. Before I take the plunge, what is the current state of tuning adapter reliability in the Raleigh/Durham area? What should I expect as far as tuning adapter problems these days? It seems like maybe things had gotten better based on comments here and in other forums, but I thought it wise to ask.

Thanks,
Ted

I guess no news is good news? I signed up for the win back deal yesterday. Install of the TWC whole house DVR is Monday. I'll pick up the cable cards and tuning adapters on Monday afternoon and hopefully have everything running by Monday evening. Friends tell me the TWC whole house DVR is as good as DirecTV's, but somehow I doubt that. I am only getting it to get the low price switch back deal. Either way, I will be saving $40-$50 per month versus DirecTV for the next 2 years -- or more as DirecTV continues to raise prices every year while my price stays the same.

-Ted

[danplaysbass]

Did Time-Warner give you an answer or explanation that you could make heads or tails of?

So when TWC said the CC was authorized they weren't lying, they were just ignorant to everything else that needed to be in line. The problem was that the HostID and some other information was still in the system from the original CC tied to my TiVo that died. I think the tech said it was "Authorized but not paired". Then we went through a ton of the CC and TA diagnostic menus and the guy at the TWC NCCS place made a bunch of adjustments to stuff.

It got me up and running so I am happy.

[ncted]

I guess no news is good news? I signed up for the win back deal yesterday. Install of the TWC whole house DVR is Monday. I'll pick up the cable cards and tuning adapters on Monday afternoon and hopefully have everything running by Monday evening. Friends tell me the TWC whole house DVR is as good as DirecTV's, but somehow I doubt that. I am only getting it to get the low price switch back deal. Either way, I will be saving $40-$50 per month versus DirecTV for the next 2 years -- or more as DirecTV continues to raise prices every year while my price stays the same.

-Ted

FWIW: The TWC whole home DVR is NOT anywhere near as good as the DirecTV offering. I could write a book about all the problems with it. Remote playback is fine, but everything else is ridiculously bad.