Big Love 02-22-2009

[aindik]

Really weird episode this week, but I thought it was interesting in bringing a lot of things to a head from way back, some things we haven't heard about in quite a while. The Margene-Ben thing, Nicki and the birth control pills, Bill's own pills, Sarah's baby. The only secrets that remain are the fairly recent ones about Nicki working for her father by spying in the the prosecutor's office, and the subsequent flirtatious relationship she has with the prosecutor.

I found it odd that Nicki said the name of the guy she was talking to on the phone, with Barb in the room. I'd have thought Barb would recognize the last name of the prosecutor in the Roman Grant trial.

It was a redeeming moment for Nicki's character that she came clean about the birth control pills rather than see Sarah continue to suffer.

Odd that when Teeny said she didn't want to drive with Margene, Margene didn't ask her WTF her problem was.

Anyone get the "widows and orphans" discussion at the museum? It sailed over my head. Bill was arguing that Joseph Smith's 36 wives weren't widows when Smith died? How's that? Is it because after he died, they were still married to each other? Is that how it works?

[Ruth]

I thought this was a really great episode. Lots of stuff going on with the complex family dynamics and some great acting -- Amanda Seyfried especially, she was amazing.

[Shaunnick]

The whole Joseph Smith thing I think was the difference between how the LDS and FLDS handle the polygamy aspect of Mormonism. The FLDS folk like Bill see no shame in Joseph Smith having 30 some odd wives. The LDS on the other hand tries to downplay it's polygamist roots. I think that is why the guy felt the need to talk Bill down. He was trying to make out like the women with Joseph Smith had been other mens's wives who were taken under Joseph Smith's care after their husbands died. I am doing this from work so I will fix any spelling errors later. :)

[aindik]

The whole Joseph Smith thing I think was the difference between how the LDS and FLDS handle the polygamy aspect of Mormonism. The FLDS folk like Bill see no shame in Joseph Smith having 30 some odd wives. The LDS on the other hand tries to downplay it's polygamist roots. I think that is why the guy felt the need to talk Bill down. I am doing this from work so I will fix any spelling errors later. :)

I got that. I was asking more about the actual points each were making. I didn't think Bill's made much sense.

[markb]

The production team sure didn't try very hard to disguise Sacramento in the riverboat scenes.

[Shaunnick]

I got that. I was asking more about the actual points each were making. I didn't think Bill's made much sense.

I guess i will have to rewatch. I am not sure which points you're referring to. On a side note, lucky Benny!:up:

[Regina]

Best line of the night goes to Margene: "Oh, am I being a PILL?" :D

Poor Bill..but trying to retrieve the Viagra from the motel drain? YUK!:eek:

[aindik]

Bill was using Viagara on a Margene night. He had the bottle open. Margene thought/bought that it wasn't for her?

[Regina]

Bill was using Viagara on a Margene night. He had the bottle open. Margene thought/bought that it wasn't for her?

He was just counting his pills! ;)

[Boston Fan]

I got that. I was asking more about the actual points each were making. I didn't think Bill's made much sense.
Bill was arguing that they were not widows at the time Smith married them, thereby (in his mind) lending more credence to their polygamy beliefs.

He viewed the other man's version as revisionist history intended to minimize the practice, and as an attempt to frame it more as an act of generosity in that Smith was just looking out for women who had lost their husbands, not as a blanket endorsement for polygamy.

[Ment]

This was a really good episode. Didn't know Mormons had proxy baptism. "Margene Viagra" is too strong! Wonder if Tiny will accidently spill the beans to her dad. Having Sarah's miscarriage bring the family together at the end of the unsuccessfull Morman pilgramage was a nice touch.

[clreimers]

This was a really good episode. Didn't know Mormons had proxy baptism. "Margene Viagra" is too strong! Wonder if Tiny will accidently spill the beans to her dad. Having Sarah's miscarriage bring the family together at the end of the unsuccessfull Morman pilgramage was a nice touch.

Yup (http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/undergod/2008/11/mormons_jews_contend_for_souls.html)

[barbeedoll]

Bill was arguing that they were not widows at the time Smith married them, thereby (in his mind) lending more credence to their polygamy beliefs.

He viewed the other man's version as revisionist history intended to minimize the practice, and as an attempt to frame it more as an act of generosity in that Smith was just looking out for women who had lost their husbands, not as a blanket endorsement for polygamy.

OK, I'm missing the point. When a woman's husband dies and she marries another man, how is she not a widow when she remarries?

Barbeedoll

[Jesda]

Ginnifer Goodwin needs to run around in less clothing more often.

It was nice just watching the family interact. I was getting bored of the Roman Grant stuff.

[Talon]

Ginnifer Goodwin needs to run around in less clothing more often.

:up::up::up:

Very good show this week, and pretty much every week.

[HDTivoDesire]

While watching I was thinking the episode was a little weak, mainly because I missed seeing Albie & his creepy evil wife. Albie is a great villain in my opinion. But it turned out to be a good episode in the end. I wonder if Ana will make another appearance? I don't care.

Teeny hasn't had many appearances this season, because I think she is aging too fast! I think her character is supposed to be about 11-13, but she could pass for 30. It's funny how they do her hair trying to make her look younger. :)

[Shaunnick]

OK, I'm missing the point. When a woman's husband dies and she marries another man, how is she not a widow when she remarries?

Barbeedoll

She would be in that sense. I am fairly certain though that Joseph Smith probably had very young or even underage wives more so than actual widows. Or maybe put another way, most of his wives were never married before.

[Ruth]

OK, I'm missing the point. When a woman's husband dies and she marries another man, how is she not a widow when she remarries?

Barbeedoll

I think the idea is that the revisionist history is that JS married grieving widows as an act of charity to take care of them in thier time of need. Bill's point was that this was not true, he just believed in polygamy and married a lot of women for that reason. I think he was saying there is no reason to believe they were widows at all.

[aindik]

Ah. I totally misinterpreted that, mostly because I have no idea of the story Joseph Smith. That's the anti-polygamy story about why Joseph Smith married a bunch of women? Because they were widows before he married them? Bill's argument is just that, factually, that's false? That makes perfect sense.

I thought the argument was about whether the women were widows after Smith died. IOW, an argument that polygamy is bad because one death leaves behind 30 widows.

[Ruth]

Well, I am just guessing, really. I had a little trouble understanding that scene, too, and I'm trying to make sense of it. My explanation makes sense to me. But I could be wrong. I'm certainly not inside the mind of Bill Henricksen, LOL!

[Ruth]

OK, I did a little research and I think my explanation is basically right. Apparently one of the modern (arguably revisionist) LDS explanations for the practice of polygamy is something like:

the Mormons practiced polygamy in order to provide husbands and fathers for widows and children of Mormon men who had died because of "religious persecution" or on the trek westward

Whereas others believe that it was not at all this type of charitable enterprise and that many of the women were not widows or orphans at all.

I pulled that quote from this letter (http://www.i4m.com/think/polygamy/polygamy_widows.htm), which takes a strongly opposing view. (Obviously that article is not meant to be objective, but at least it seems to describe the dispute.)

[Bananfish]

The gist/meaning of the exchange really was:

Museum guy (uncomfortably trying to avoid answering question re: polygamist practices of Joseph Smith) : well, that was a long time ago ...

Bill (proudly): Joseph Smith had 32 wives when he died.

"Amateur Historian": But most of those were widows or orphans at the time that he married them, so he really married them out of a charitable sense of taking care of needy people and isn't nearly as much of a polygamist as some people make him out to be.

Bill: That's not true, they weren't widows and orphans, so he was every bit a polygamist.

"Amateur Historian": Yes, they were too widows and orphans.

[jones07]

Will Nicki cheat?
I don't think "she" ever chose a partner for herself, they were all picked for her. Isn't Bill her 2nd husband picked for Nicki by her father?

[BobB]

Just saw this one last night - what a great episode! Strong dramatic arc, which has not always been the case recently. Terrific scene in the bedroom with Nicki, where they both had to be thinking of someone else to get into it - she putting a cardigan on Bill (and asking him to keep it on!) so she could fantasize about her boss, Bill needing the "Margene pill" to get it up. Satisfying resolution with Sarah's losing her baby bringing them all together. The only hokey note was when Bill asks god for help and the "angel Moroni" rises above him.

And did you notice the sound track? The music was perfectly done, especially at the ending with the choir singing over unheard dialog during the Sarah revelation, followed - for the first time on this show, I think - by dead silence over the closing credits. Just breathtaking.

[Shaunnick]

The only hokey note was when Bill asks god for help and the "angel Moroni" rises above him.



That scene cracked me up though. I loved the timing of it. I saw it merely as coincidence, and thought if Bill had turned around he would have seen it as a sign when really it was just timing. But I see your point. :)

[Anubys]

...she putting a cardigan on Bill (and asking him to keep it on!) so she could fantasize about her boss...

ooh...I didn't get that...thanks for pointing that out...

so glad that the "brief nudity" warning at the start wasn't Bill's butt again :D

[HDTivoDesire]

That scene cracked me up though. I loved the timing of it. I saw it merely as coincidence, and thought if Bill had turned around he would have seen it as a sign when really it was just timing. But I see your point. :)

Was the angel supposed to be real or was it part of the "show" going on in the big outdoor theatre? I guess it was supposed to be real and the ambiguousness was intentional.

Did the rest of the family get in to see the show? I thought Bill said earlier that there was "No late seating?"

[BobB]

Was the angel supposed to be real or was it part of the "show" going on in the big outdoor theatre? I guess it was supposed to be real and the ambiguousness was intentional.

No, it was the show - they made a point of saying how the show had the "angel" rise 50 feet into the air. And despite the beliefs of the characters, they have never added any supernatural elements to the episodes - that is in fact a good part of what makes this show so interesting, the contrast between the characters' spiritual talk and oh-so unspiritual behavior.

[JETarpon]

Heh. The viagra posts brought in a cialis spammer.