UK TiVo newbie: questions and help please?

[son_t]

Well, just got a UK TiVo (no lifetime sub) off a work colleague for a mess around... Please help me...

I am planning to build a HTPC PVR to record both Freesat and Freeview... when I came across this TiVo idea. I've had some preliminary questions answered but would like some help on what to do next.

I would like to setup the TiVo to record both Freesat and Freeview via their own STB. The TiVo has missing the IR blaster, and it has no lifetime sub, so can I get anywhere until I solve these two problems (i.e. get a replacement IR blaster and lifetime sub)?

I want to upgrade the already upgraded 120Gb disk to a 1TB one. Where do I start with this?

Where do I start with general useful hacks for a UK TiVo?

[steveroe]

Hello and welcome to Tivo and the forum!

The best place to start is the "New Users Start here (http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=37326)" sticky at the top of the forum - have a look through that and then post any follow ups you may have.

[son_t]

Thanks :)

Just got to Q3 and clicked on the link (here) -DEAD! Not a great start... but I will continue! ;)

EDIT: another dead link 'hack FAQ'... :(

[johala_reewi]

Missing SUB.
You will need to set up your own Tivo sub which AFAIK you can do by phoning the Tivo helpline. Not sure if your mate has to transfer ownership of the Tivo to you first.

Tivo can do both Freeview and Sky at the same time. You have to plug the Sky box into the Tivo AUX scart, and the Freeview box into the Tivo RF in. So you need a Freeview box with a built in RF modulator or a SCART to RF converter. Having plugged them in, you run the Tivo guided setup to tell Tivo what you have got plugged in and where in the country you are.

Tivo has two IR blasters.
There is the front blaster (built in) and the IR wands which plug into the back and can be positioned close to your STB's. I guess the wands are missing from your Tivo but you could probably use the front blaster - worth a try. I think you can still get replacement wands from Tivo customer support or some of the Tivo accessory vendors who are on this forum.

Having got a basic, subbed and working Tivo, you are ready to start hacking!

[son_t]

Thanks for the response. The mate has no subs and the box has no subs. Is it true that if you have no subs the box will still be able to get EPG data every fortnight - instead of each night?

It is recording Freeview and Freesat (not Sky) at the same time. I have a Humax FOXSAT-HD Freesat STB - will the TiVo be able to control that (it is pretty new!)?

Is the IR blaster just a standard one or is it specific to the TiVo?

[AMc]

No sub = no EPG full stop. You will be able to make timed manual recordings but it won't be a pleasant experience. If you're serious I would at least pay £10 for an initial month and see what Tivo is really about. You can always cancel it later though IIRC if you cancel mid-month the sub would stop almost immediately not at the end of the month you'd paid.

Tivo can control the FOXSAT-HD (my folks have one) but it will only record standard definition over SCART, you won't get High Def recordings.

I don't think there is anything special about the IR blaster but I've no basis to say what will and won't work for sure.

EDIT - Last time I looked it was cheaper to buy an eBay machine with lifetime sub than to pay £200 to LT sub an existing box

[Fred Smith]

Thanks for the response. The mate has no subs and the box has no subs. Is it true that if you have no subs the box will still be able to get EPG data every fortnight - instead of each night?

No

It is recording Freeview and Freesat (not Sky) at the same time. I have a Humax FOXSAT-HD Freesat STB - will the TiVo be able to control that (it is pretty new!)?

Yes, but the Freeview box must have an RF modulated output. As above.

Is the IR blaster just a standard one or is it specific to the TiVo?

Generic should work fine.

Re the sub, £200 for lifetime, TiVo's with a lifetime sell for less than that on Ebay.

AMc edited his post while I was writing mine :)

[son_t]

Thanks for the replies...

I am looking at the eBay options... I wanted a box to have a play about with before deciding whether TiVo does what I want/need... So a mate's box with no subs is my current situation :(

So to confirm, I need an IR blaster to allow the TiVo to control the Freeview and Freesat STBs? Will the TiVo work if I use an auto/manual SCART switcher to connect both STBs to the Aux SCART?

[AMc]

So to confirm, I need an IR blaster to allow the TiVo to control the Freeview and Freesat STBs? Will the TiVo work if I use an auto/manual SCART switcher to connect both STBs to the Aux SCART?
The front blaster may be good enough to control both, it works by beaming IR out the front of Tivo and trusting to reflections in the room to bring it back to the STB(s) near by - you will have to try it to be sure, mine works like that.

Tivo will happily record whatever is coming through the SCART socket, but it won't be able to control the SCART switch so it would have no way to switch between sources. As both sources will be on at any time there is no guaranty an auto switching socket would be showing the right source.
The Tivo Sat/Freeview implementation also means it needs to have Sat on SCART and freeview on the RF input or it won't work.

As the beauty of Tivo is it works automatically this isn't going to help you.

It is recording Freeview and Freesat (not Sky) at the same time.
Tivo can record one thing at a time. It digitises whatever is on the SCART input or the RF input, then records it to disk. It is not like Sky+ or a Freeview+ recorder that records the raw digital stream and can record two things at once.

[johala_reewi]

So to confirm, I need an IR blaster to allow the TiVo to control the Freeview and Freesat STBs? Will the TiVo work if I use an auto/manual SCART switcher to connect both STBs to the Aux SCART?

Tivo has an IR blaster built in so you don't need a separate one. It beams out of the window at the front of Tivo. This often works but if your STB is tucked away, you might have to use the Tivo IR Wand extension leads.
http://www.tivoland.com/buy_accessories.html
http://www.tivocentral.co.uk/accessories.php
http://www.tivoheaven.co.uk/

No it won't work using a scart switch. For combined Freeview / Sat use, the Sat STB has to be on the Tivo AUX scart, and the Freeview box has to be on the Tivo RF in. Tivo will happily control both STBs separately but when recording Freeview, will record from RF. When recording Sat, will record from SCART.

[son_t]

Thanks, I see what people mean about the two blasters now :) Although, I can't see how this works without the other STBs sitting opposite (for IR beam to send signals directly to the sensor in the STBs)... I guess it just works with STBs sitting on top of the TiVo?

With regards to recording from both STBs, I suppose the Freeview box must have an RF output (so that you can feed it into the RF input of the TiVo)? Does anyone record Freeview on the Aux SCART input?

[RichardJH]

Does anyone record Freeview on the Aux SCART input?

YES that is how it is done if you have Freeview as your only source, and then you do not need a Freeview box with RF modulator

[son_t]

So why will TiVo not record from a Freesat STB and a Freeview STB using a SCART switcher? Or does the TiVo only control channel switching and not powering on or off of the STBs? If this is the case, can the TiVo control the SCART switcher to switch inputs between Freeview and Freesat (if given the input switch IR codes?)

[johala_reewi]

Thanks, I see what people mean about the two blasters now :) Although, I can't see how this works without the other STBs sitting opposite (for IR beam to send signals directly to the sensor in the STBs)... I guess it just works with STBs sitting on top of the TiVo?
See Amc's reply above. With the STB sitting on top of Tivo, you are hoping that the IR gets bounced off the furniture etc. to reach the STB. This often works so the extension wands aren't needed.

With regards to recording from both STBs, I suppose the Freeview box must have an RF output (so that you can feed it into the RF input of the TiVo)? Does anyone record Freeview on the Aux SCART input?

If you only have one STB (freeview, sky, cable), you plug it into Tivo's AUX scart and during the guided setup, you tell Tivo you only have one STB. Tivo will then always record from the AUX scart.

Tivo has a special setup for those people who have two STBs (one freeview and one Sat). The special setup requires the freeview STB to use the RF in.

[son_t]

Tivo has a special setup for those people who have two STBs (one freeview and one Sat). The special setup requires the freeview STB to use the RF in.

I see, so no to the above (post#13) setup then?

[johala_reewi]

So why will TiVo not record from a Freesat STB and a Freeview STB using a SCART switcher? Or does the TiVo only control channel switching and not powering on or off of the STBs? If this is the case, can the TiVo control the SCART switcher to switch inputs between Freeview and Freesat (if given the input switch IR codes?)

Normally, there is only one STB which is connected to the AUX scart. When Tivo records, it will record from the AUX scart.

In the special setup where there is a freeview STB and a Sat STB, when Tivo wants to record a programme from Sat, it will send out the IR to change channel on the Sat box and records from the AUX scart. When Tivo wants to record a programme from Freeview, it sends out the IR to change channel on the freeview box and records from the RF input.

So you can see, using a scart switcher with two STBs isn't going to work because Tivo will be expecting the freeview signal to be on the RF in (not the AUX scart).

[son_t]

So you can see, using a scart switcher with two STBs isn't going to work because Tivo will be expecting the freeview signal to be on the RF in (not the AUX scart).
I see. I thought you might be able to configure the TiVo a bit more and tell it which input to record from (and send the required on/off* or SCART switch IR code). I guess this can't be done - and there's no hack to do this?

*If this is the case (that the TiVo can not power on/off STBs), does this mean that the STBs have to be permanently on?

[RichardJH]

does this mean that the STBs have to be permanently on?

yes

[cyril]

I see. I thought you might be able to configure the TiVo a bit more and tell it which input to record from (and send the required on/off* or SCART switch IR code). I guess this can't be done - and there's no hack to do this?

*If this is the case (that the TiVo can not power on/off STBs), does this mean that the STBs have to be permanently on?

TiVo can power on a Sky box using one of the remote codes, so in theory you could write a tcl program to power on/off at various times, and in theory send an IR code to a scart switcher as well.

I'm not sure if someone has already written hacks to do this, but it should not be too difficult.

There is already a RFtoSCART hack written.
http://www.garysargent.co.uk/tivo/skyradio.htm

[johala_reewi]

I see. I thought you might be able to configure the TiVo a bit more and tell it which input to record from (and send the required on/off* or SCART switch IR code). I guess this can't be done - and there's no hack to do this?

There is no hack AFAIK but that doesn't mean it isn't possible. Tivo is very hackable and it is not impossible to do a hack that would make Tivo output SCART switching IR codes before the main STB codes. When you have done it, you can post it on the forum! (The above mentioned RFtoSCART hack can be used to force Tivo to record freeview from the scart instead of RF in in a two STB setup.)

does this mean that the STBs have to be permanently on?
Generally yes although quite a few STBs can be brought out of standby by sending an IR channel select (the old ondigital STBs did this as does my Pioneer freeview STB). However, Tivo just sends channel numbers (and optionally an ENTER) to the STB. It doesn't try to turn it on or off (or put it in standby).

[son_t]

So I've managed to get around installing my mate's loan TiVo... I've connected an aerial, a SCART lead and the modem lead to the phone.

I get this error message: http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/son_tpics/TiVo/tivo-error.jpg

What is going on here? Do I really have to leave the TiVo on for 24 hours? :(

[Pete77]

I get this error message: http://i442.photobucket.com/albums/qq149/son_tpics/TiVo/tivo-error.jpg

What is going on here? Do I really have to leave the TiVo on for 24 hours? :(

The hard drive is corrupted due to old age. Even if it repairs temporarily (if you leave it for 24 hours) the problem will recur. Is that why your mate was getting rid of the Tivo?

You need to fit a new hard drive and install the Tivo operating system using the instructions at www.steveconrad.co.uk/tivo/upgrade3.html

[son_t]

Thanks for the reply. So even if the drive is old and corrupted, I can still 'clone' it onto a new hard disk using the steps in the link? And this will fix the problem?


You need to fit a new hard drive and install the Tivo operating system using the instructions at www.steveconrad.co.uk/tivo/upgrade3.html
No, it was sitting in a cupboard collecting dust. As you can see, he has not used it for a while ;)

[Pete77]

Thanks for the reply. So even if the drive is old and corrupted, I can still 'clone' it onto a new hard disk using the steps in the link? And this will fix the problem?

As you have no good backup of a UK Tivo 2.5.5 operating system you need to request a PM to the link to download a clean image of the UK Tivo operating system in this thread:-

http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=113155&page=47

[son_t]

Thanks :)

[Johnbyte]

If it were me, I'd hang on before condemning the hard drive. I've seen this message before, and TiVo sorted itself out after a while - well within 24 hours. Doesn't mean to say yours will, but you've nothing to lose....:)

[Pete77]

If it were me, I'd hang on before condemning the hard drive. I've seen this message before, and TiVo sorted itself out after a while - well within 24 hours. Doesn't mean to say yours will, but you've nothing to lose....:)

Yes it may sort itself out but there is usually something nasty wrong when those messages appear.

I have never had one yet in over six years of Tivo use.

[ericd121]

Yes it may sort itself out but there is usually something nasty wrong when those messages appear.

I have never had one yet in over six years of Tivo use.There speaks the voice of inexperience! :p

[Pete77]

There speaks the voice of inexperience! :p

Yes but nonetheless I have read of all the teachings of the learned Lord Citrus on this matter.:p

[Raisltin Majere]

The hard drive is corrupted due to old age.

I think you forgot to say "is one possible reason".

I've had this message a few times, my hard drive is about 6 years old I think - I've not had the message for a few years.

[Pete77]

I've had this message a few times, my hard drive is about 6 years old I think - I've not had the message for a few years.
Ok fair point but the OP seems to be only starting out with Tivo and hard drives are cheap and he may find it distressing to put a lot more effort in only for the hard drive to turn up its toes in due course.

By the way what brings you back here? I thought you were a fully paid up Sky HD man these days?;):p

[Raisltin Majere]

Ok fair point but the OP seems to be only starting out with Tivo and hard drives are cheap and he may find it distressing to put a lot more effort in only for the hard drive to turn up its toes in due course.

By the way what brings you back here? I thought you were a fully paid up Sky HD man these days?;):p

Nope :) Long story short:

Separated from wife, homeless, put up by friend who had neither sky nor internet, moved into flat owned by colleague, discovered flat cannot receive sky (big building blocks signal, listed building so can't use mast (so no sky of any description let alone HD)), persuaded colleague to allow me to use his WLAN, made this my first port of call to speak to you :cool:

[Pete77]

Separated from wife, homeless, put up by friend who had neither sky nor internet, moved into flat owned by colleague, discovered flat cannot receive sky (big building blocks signal, listed building so can't use mast (so no sky of any description let alone HD)), persuaded colleague to allow me to use his WLAN, made this my first port of call to speak to you :cool:

I'm very sorry to hear about your troubles. I wouldn't wish those kind of problems on anyone. Did she get to keep your nice Panasonic HD television too.:eek:

So are you saying you are now using Tivo again with Freeview or something?

I presume Sky's free communal shared dish scheme (http://communaltv.sky.com/options.aspx?page=2) wouldn't help in view of the signal being blocked by a big building but Sky do also now claim to have launched an internet version of their tv service, although sadly I don't think it can do HD.:(

See http://skyplayer.sky.com/aboutskyplayer/

Seems really bad luck you are in this situation just when everything seemed to be going well for you. Hope things go better for you going forwards.

[Raisltin Majere]

I'm very sorry to hear about your troubles. I wouldn't wish those kind of problems on anyone.

Thanks foir your kind words :)

Did she get to keep your nice Panasonic HD television too.:eek:

Hell no!

So are you saying you are now using Tivo again with Freeview or something?

I presume Sky's free communal shared dish scheme (http://communaltv.sky.com/options.aspx?page=2) wouldn't help in view of the signal being blocked by a big building but Sky do also now claim to have launched an internet version of their tv service, although sadly I don't think it can do HD.:(

See http://skyplayer.sky.com/aboutskyplayer/

Seems really bad luck you are in this situation just when everything seemed to be going well for you. Hope things go better for you going forwards.


The only thing I use Tivo for these days is the live pause function - I've been trying to get guide data for it, unsuccessfully (I've started a thread on that so hopefully someone can help).

[son_t]

Thanks for the advice... I left the box on a while and it over came the initial error problem... I guess it went through an 'fsck' sort of thing...?

Anyway, I am having the 'phone TiVo' problem now when setting the box up for the first time... I've no idea what the problem is now... I've been through all the 'lines' tests but not too sure... The box just reports 'no line' after an initial error of 'no dial tone'...

I have to find some alternative cables and a phone to test the line now. What a bother... :(

[Pete77]

Anyway, I am having the 'phone TiVo' problem now when setting the box up for the first time... I've no idea what the problem is now... I've been through all the 'lines' tests but not too sure... The box just reports 'no line' after an initial error of 'no dial tone'...

Who is your phone line provider.

It might be worth trying the box on a different line (especially a BT one) if you can get access to one. As its an 0800 call nobody should mind helping you out.

Or try adding the dialling prefix code 1280 to force the call to route with BT even if you are not with them. However some of BT's more aggressive rivals (eg TalkTalk) now block the use of the 1280 prefix code.

[son_t]

Thanks for the reply. I'm with BT. I suspect it is the cables (either the phone line splitter, the extension cable, and/or the modem cable). I will have a go at getting an alternative cable for each and have a swap out...

It might be also the DSL splitter, but I did directly connect the extension cable to the BT socket at one stage...

It is all a bother as the TiVo takes so long to bomb out and fail and I am messing about with to many cables! :(

[Pete77]

It still seems to me like your friend retired this Tivo from service because it had a series of issues that he either did not know how to fix or could not be bothered to fix.

You need to make sure you use a proper computer modem cable from the phone socket on the back of the Tivo to your filtered ADSL phone socket. Other phone handset cables look the same as they have the same plugs but won't work as they are not constructed to carry a data signal.

[TCM2007]

You need to make sure you use a proper computer modem cable from the phone socket on the back of the Tivo to your filtered ADSL phone socket. Other phone handset cables look the same as they have the same plugs but won't work as they are not constructed to carry a data signal.

Eh?

While there are different wirings of RJ11 cables, there aren't "voice" and "data" versions.

Some wirings of the "British" phone cable can be incompatible with eachother due to some lack of specifics in the wiring standard (similar to "crossover" and "straight through" on a Ethernet cable) but it's nowt to do with data.

[mutant_matt2]

Is this the fabled GSOD I've heard about but never seen, which is supposedly recoverable, as long as you still have enough swap space? ;) :) (and leave TiVo to do it's thing)

Welcome son_t, one and the same from the Hummy forum I presume? Us TiVo owners posting over there giving you the itch to consider the dark side also? ;) :)

Matt.

<edited to add: blimey, whilst typing, a gazillion new posts appeared...and, Pete, I'm with TCM on the modem cable point (seems we weren't agreeing the other day on the other thread? ;) :) ) >

P.S. Don't forget to try with micro filter, just in case...

[Raisltin Majere]

<edited to add: blimey, whilst typing, a gazillion new posts appeared

I took you 5 and half hours to type that? :D

[son_t]

Eh?

While there are different wirings of RJ11 cables, there aren't "voice" and "data" versions.

Some wirings of the "British" phone cable can be incompatible with eachother due to some lack of specifics in the wiring standard (similar to "crossover" and "straight through" on a Ethernet cable) but it's nowt to do with data.


I think you are right about the RJ11 modem cable - something is certainly funny here, as the only modem cables I have are for computers...

Anyway, I finally got the phone TiVo to work...

I found and old (digital) phone, and was going to use it just to test the extension line. Plugged it in and I got a tone. I noticed that this phone has an RJ11 cable attached, I unplugged it from the phone and connected it to the TiVo. Low and behold, it called home just fine... Weird...

Is this the fabled GSOD I've heard about but never seen, which is supposedly recoverable, as long as you still have enough swap space? ;) :) (and leave TiVo to do it's thing)

I left the box to recover, and it did! I also got a fresh image and put it on a spare disk I had just in case - and I might swap that in to see if works...


Welcome son_t, one and the same from the Hummy forum I presume? Us TiVo owners posting over there giving you the itch to consider the dark side also? ;) :)

Matt.

Yup, that's me :D I'm trying the TiVo out as a mate had one sitting on his shelf doing nothing. Unfortunately, I am slowly concluding that TiVo is not for me :(

The objective was to get a PVR going to record both Freesat and Freeview (see my blog here: http://freesat-freeview-htpc.blogspot.com/).

But I am finding that the TiVo is really geared up for recording Sky (an objective way before Sky+) rather than anything else. Although I must admit it does seem to support Freesat and Freeview.

Has anyone got a recommendation for a cheap Freeview box with RF out to go with the TiVo? (I am going to use the FOXSAT-HD for Freesat, of course...)

The other downside of TiVo is my lack of a lifetime sub and I'm not going to pay the £10 pm sub for this box... I was told that I get a trial period for retrieving EPG data with an initial install - is this right?

[Pete77]

Has anyone got a recommendation for a cheap Freeview box with RF out to go with the TiVo? (I am going to use the FOXSAT-HD for Freesat, of course...)

All old OnDigital boxes have RF modulators. Although they are a tad slow to change channel this doesn't really matter with a Tivo. However they won't work anymore after Digital Switchover takes place in your area (due to 2k to 8k change). Any on Ebay should be very cheap though.

You can buy standalone coax to Scart RF modulators but they are costly and you get a worse result than a Freeview box with an RF modulator on board.

The other downside of TiVo is my lack of a lifetime sub and I'm not going to pay the £10 pm sub for this box... I was told that I get a trial period for retrieving EPG data with an initial install - is this right?

But what you don't appreciate is how much better the Tivo interface and recording selection functionality (such as Wishlists) is than any other PVR on the market.

[son_t]

But what you don't appreciate is how much better the Tivo interface and recording selection functionality (such as Wishlists) is than any other PVR on the market.
Yes, I do appreciate that :) This is one of the reasons that I want to set up the TiVo - to get an experience of this for myself. (Only then can I give an opinion about it.) The problem is that most won't have this experience, and what they've never experienced, they're not going to miss.

[Pete77]

Yes, I do appreciate that :) This is one of the reasons that I want to set up the TiVo - to get an experience of this for myself. (Only then can I give an opinion about it.) The problem is that most won't have this experience, and what they've never experienced, they're not going to miss.

The free trial period for EPG data was only 7 days and only a brand new never previously used Tivo. So it won't apply in this case.

You can get a basic one with a Lifetime Sub on Ebay for only £100 or less these days.

[son_t]

The free trial period for EPG data was only 7 days and only a brand new never previously used Tivo. So it won't apply in this case.

You can get a basic one with a Lifetime Sub on Ebay for only £100 or less these days.

So, it's not worth me bothering then! :(

(Not with my borrowed box, and I'm not going to spend £100 for a lifetime subs box off eBay.)

Oh, well... if I've no experience of TiVo, I won't miss it... Onwards with building my HTPC!

[Pete77]

So, it's not worth me bothering then! :(

(Not with my borrowed box, and I'm not going to spend £100 for a lifetime subs box off eBay.)

Not it appears with your big stumbling block over paying £100 to have a Lifetime Sub to have unlimited use of the most elaborate tv program recording selection mechanism so far invented.

Many people in this forum have paid nearly £1,000 to Tivo in subs (those who did not take out the £200 Lifetime Sub that is) over the last eight years.

Yet you quibble about £100 that I am sure you would not think twice about spending on actual computer hardware.:mad:

[son_t]

Yet you quibble about £100 that I am sure you would not think twice about spending on actual computer hardware.:mad:

But that is not it - that is simplistic view, from a very biased pro-TiVo user!

I would quibble spending over £100 on computer hardware that I've no use for... or put it this way I don't 'impulse' buy! ;)

It is obvious that those spending over £1000 on TiVo have more money than sense and spend too much time watching TV, have forgotten to cancel the subs, don't know better, etc., etc.. ;) But it's their or your money... who am I to question, and who are you to compare?!

At the end of the day, I am spending money on building a PC, because it is fun and a learning experience. Spending money on TiVo just to record (select) TV programmes that I've no time to watch is a waste of £10 pm or £100 on eBay ;) :mad:

I don't think your last post is very helpful or constructive - just to make the point that TiVo is great! :(

[Pete77]

I don't think your last post is very helpful or constructive - just to make the point that TiVo is great! :(

The point is that you got this Tivo free and you then asked us a whole lot of questions that we helped you with to try to get the thing working and then you cuttingly dismissed the product when you couldn't filch a subscription for nothing (in fact a lifetime sub can be filched but its illegal and involves stealing someone else's service number they have paid a lifetime sub for so no one here condones or supports it).

It is because people have this stumbling block over paying for a quality EPG with several weeks well research Metadata that most PVRs are in fact rubbish and can't do their job properly due to a lack of adequate data to do so (not due to the hardware).

Also you laugh at people who have paid £1,000 for EPG data but you have to view it in the context of there being no comaparable alternate PVR product eight years ago.

[ColinYounger]

Gahhh! Pete, please reign it in! You're not helping!

[Pete77]

Gahhh! Pete, please reign it in! You're not helping!

I did try to help this forum member quite a lot to get this particular Tivo working but the bottom line is he not only got his Tivo for nothing (which I am sure only happened because it doesn't have a Lifetime Sub or else the original owner would have sold it for money) but he expects it to get its Guide Data for nothing and is then rude about people who have paid to keep the service going for many years. Also if he has never experienced the service then how can he know whether it is worth paying for or not?

As the old saying goes "you can lead a horse to the water but you can't make it drink".

Still I'm sure that won't cause you to pass up that welcome opportunity you clearly spotted to engage in a fun spot of Pete bashing eh Colin.:p

[mutant_matt2]

Maybe I missed something, but, son_t, why not buy a monthly sub, for a month, maybe two, and see what you think. I am fairly certain that, you will be quite surprised how useable it is, and might just then think about using it further. If not, you've hardly lost anything. Also, if we're only talking about a trial, why not just hook up either a Sky, Freeview or Freesat box to the SCART, to have a decent source, connected in the best way possible (for analogue)? You might even be able to borrow the STB from someone if you're only going to have it for a month or two.

Worth a thought?

Matt :)

[Pete77]

Maybe I missed something, but, son_t, why not buy a monthly sub, for a month, maybe two, and see what you think. I am fairly certain that, you will be quite surprised how useable it is, and might just then think about using it further.

I agree with you Matt. I think son_t should have been prepared to stump up a tenner to see if he was impressed by what Tivo has to offer or not. If he was he could then have bought a secondhand one with a Lifetime Sub on Ebay.

If he was never prepared to stump up the tenner then I don't see why he ever bothered trying to get the Tivo working again in the first place.

[Mike Rogers]

For what it's worth, (as a long time mostly lurking forum member), I'm entirely with you on this matter Pete.