TiVo => Component => TV Problem.

[sickbird_uk]

Hi all,

It's been a few years but I've dusted down my old TiVo and would like to start using it again.

The issue I have is that, for practical reasons, I need to use an existing Component cable to view the TiVo on my LCD tv. For my Dreambox I use a cheap Scart>Component adaptor that works well but I am currently seeing 'Mode Not Supported' when trying to use that for my TiVo. The weird thing is; when I press 'Aux' I get a really good picture but I obviously can't use the TiVo functions.

I have a cachecard installed and can telnet and use TivoWebPlus. I suspect that I have 'mode 0' set up but I can't honestly remember.

If anyone can throw me a few pointers and possibly explain whats different between 'Aux' and the TiVo mode I'd be most appreciative.

[pauljs]

Aux is the pass through setting, Sat to scart to tivo to scart to tv

Tivo mode encodes the signal to the buffer and plays it back through the scart

There is a quality difference, both should work unless the tivo is faulty or your tv has the teletext bug

Tivo doesn't support component sometimes known at YPbPr, on domestic kit normally 3 phonos Green red and Blue

Tivo supports RGBs via scart or composite

[AMc]

You can hack your Tivo to output component over the SCART socket, if this will work with your current lead is more than I can guess, info here...
http://archive2.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=230291

[Heuer]

I have used one of these for years and it works perfectly: http://www.js-technology.com/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=36&osCsid=bcb2cdfe3352fbccf4e04bf6458e254a There is a cheaper version here but no experience of using it: http://www.howtoconvert.co.uk/howrgb2component.htm

[sickbird_uk]

Thanks for the replies fellas.

I have tried using the iicsetw commands but still get 'Mode Not Supported' on the Tv. Pressing 'AUX' shows a nice picture so the cable & adaptor combo appears to be able to passthru a Component signal but is not happy with the component signal produced by Tivo itself.

Ideally i'd just go for the rgb2component converter suggested, but £50+ is too high a price to pay at present.

I can get a signal to the TV by RF so I'll stick with that for now until a better solution presents itself.

Thanks again.

[mccg]

You can hack your Tivo to output component over the SCART socket, if this will work with your current lead is more than I can guess, info here...
http://archive2.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=230291

I use this method on my plasma. (made up my own cable)
It gives good results, but note that pressing aux to give live tv gives a direct pass through of the RGB signal, rather than the re-mapped component version, so the colours are all wrong. There is also some crawling patterns when in direct mode, I guess due to the "sync on green" connection.
Other TVs may not even lock on to the signal...

I also have one of the RGB-Component converter boxes which worked well until I found the above method... and it needs another power supply, so I don't use it any more.

But this doesn't help the OP - sorry! :-(

[sickbird_uk]

Well curiosity has already got the better of me and it looks like I'm going to have to try to make up my own cable. I'll report back when I've got it working and/or blown up my tv.

Wish me luck.

[nathan]

If you've a VGA-in on the LCD, you could use a Keene Syncblaster.

http://www.syncblaster.com/syncblaster_cables.html

I used both a Syncblaster SCART->VGA and the RGB->Component converter (http://www.howtoconvert.co.uk/howrgb2component.htm) on my Panny plasma and I thought that they were both great.

I've still got the Syncblaster if you're interested.

[sickbird_uk]

Thanks nathan. The reason I'm trying to do it by Component is because I have a spare component cable 'embedded' through a false chimney breast to the AV stack. I amtrying to avoid having to dismantle the TV bracket and running more cables if I can help it. I'm going to give the 'Homemade' cable a try.
Thanks again.

[sickbird_uk]

Well I got the soldering iron out and somehow managed to cobble together the cable and it only bloody works! Thanks everyone.

[sickbird_uk]

Hi. Me again. 1 more thing.

Obviously, when I turn component output on for the LCD TV it means I lose the RF output which was feeding the TVs upstairs.

Is there anything wrong with having the following 2 scripts to switch between RGB and Component output?

=====================
set_tv_comp.sh
=====================
#!/bin/bash

echo "Turn Component Output On - in 40 Seconds"
sleep 40

echo "change from RGB to Component output"
/var/hack/bin/iicsetw 0x8C 0x3A 15
/var/hack/bin/iicsetw 0x8C 0x2D 63

=====================
set_tv_rgb.sh
=====================
#!/bin/bash

echo "Turn RGB Output On - in 5 Seconds"
sleep 5

echo "change from Component to RGB output"
/var/hack/bin/iicsetw 0x8C 0x3A 3
/var/hack/bin/iicsetw 0x8C 0x2D 0

I would add the first to rc.sysinit.author.edit to enable Component by default and could call the second script from Hack Manager to switch back to RGB. Does this look feasible?

[spid3r]

You can hack your Tivo to output component over the SCART socket, if this will work with your current lead is more than I can guess, info here...
http://archive2.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=230291

The archive2 seems to be broken and I'd like to see this thread if possible. Can one of the site admins take a look please?

Thanks

[AMc]

Seems to be up for me now

[spid3r]

This is what I get on a Mac running Safari on Snow Leopard, and on a PC using IE 8 on Windows 7.

[Milhouse]

Keep trying - it's quite slow.

If it still fails, try clicking on the search Search link, and in the "Search by User Name" section enter "tivopony" as the user name. Click on Search, then click on the first thread found (should be "Red Trousers - TiVo Advanced Screening") and then in the URL change the thread id from "?t=271272" to "?t=230291", hit Go and wait... not sure why it worked for me, but it did.

Alternatively save yourself the hassle and get a SCART to Component converter if this is why you are interested in the above thread... I've got the one from J.S. Technology (http://www.js-technology.com/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=36&osCsid=420a2682ede407ed994764af80b41011) and thoroughly recommend it, but there are less pricey options from Keene (http://www.keene.co.uk/) and QED (http://www.stoneaudio.co.uk/).

[spid3r]

Strange - even though the browser stops loading, there's some kind of long timeout before it shows the content.

In case it breaks even more, here's the info:

The thread I posted this info in is a bit confusing (there's quite a bit of me blundering around and arguing with myself) so this is the full howto (it's not that complex). I'll take some pictures and add them at some point.

Things to do are in bold, everything else is just explanation.

I can't claim credit for all of this: using iicset to bypass the RGB stage was suggested by MikeB here ; other people found the documentation for the video chips on the Philips site.

However as far as I know the modification to output the pure sync on the component video and the tri-state setting wasn't suggested anywhere else: if I'm wrong, sorry, but I didn't see it anyway

Otherwise, thanks to cbemoore for having the guts to try out the component iicset command on his expensive telly and giving me the impetus to start trying properly.

There's an obvious acknowledgement to tridge for his iicset program: the guy is pretty much a God, right? Samba rocks

Note that if your TV has RGB inputs then it's generally accepted that there's little advantage in connecting using component, although the issues discussed in this thread suggest that you may get better colour through component. I don't know enough about this to say for definite.

A quick disclaimer: bear in mind that this works for me. It may be that other people find the tri-state hack unnecessary (say if they have a separate sync input), in which case just joining R, G, B and Composite to the Cr, Y, Cb and Sync inputs respectively and running the first iicset command will be perfectly adequate. It may also be that my projector is more flexible in its acceptance of what constitutes a YUV signal and your equipment simply won't like it. It may even blow up and destroy your display, it may catch fire and destroy your home killing everyone inside. In other words, It Works For Me And There Are No Guarantees.

Anyway, on with the facts.

Firstly you need to buy or build yourself a SCART->RGsB adaptor. No-one seems to sell them, as far as I can tell, so what I did was to buy a SCART->composite video/audio adaptor and modify it. Unfortunately I can't tell you where to buy one because it was one I had lying around which I bought in Spain ... what you want to look for is something with plastic casing rather than rubber mould and with all the SCART pins (one of the adaptors I have only has the composite and audio pins connected, which would be pretty useless for our purposes!). Otherwise you could buy a SCART connector from Maplin (or similar) and build a cable yourself: I didn't want to do this because I already have some pretty nice component video cables, but it would probably be the easier option.

Anyway, what you need is to connect three cables (preferably decent quality ones) in some way to the following pins from the SCART connector:

Pin 5 -> BLUE ground
Pin 7 -> BLUE
Pin 9 -> GREEN ground
Pin 11 -> GREEN
Pin 13 -> RED ground
Pin 15 -> RED

You also need to join the composite video pins to the green signal:

Pin 17 -> pin 9
Pin 19 -> pin 11

You could connect the audio pins if you wanted but since TiVo has RCA outputs for that there's very little point.

If you're not happy wiring up this connector then I'm sure there are people who will do this for you, but it really is fairly easy.

EDIT: Note that Heuer pointed out below that Keene sell cables and an adaptor for a fiver which claim to be SCART -> RGsB. However there's some confusion about the sync line: I emailed Keene to make sure the pin 19 connection was made and got an email back stating that actually their RGsB connector only connects the R, G and B pins. I imagine that just means if your source can output RGsB then their cable will carry it. The moral of this would be to ask the vendor before you buy.

Connect the three wires to the YCbCr input on your display with Green->Y, Blue->Cb, Red->Cr: bear in mind this is a 576i (interlaced) component signal, so if (like mine) your display has one progressive input and one interlaced you need to make sure you choose the right one! (I guess some displays let you choose? I've no idea about this).

Plug in your new SCART connector to the TV out connector on the TiVo. You may find that you get a signal at this point (although the colours will be very badly wrong) - this is because the composite video is still being output from pin 19, which is (handily) connected to the Y input.

You need to download iicsetw from this post and get it onto your TiVo somehow (it's beyond the scope of this post to explain how).

Now, log on to the tivo (I'm assuming you've already set up a bash prompt) and run

/var/hack/iicsetw 0x8Ch 0x3AH 15
/var/hack/iicsetw 0x8Ch 0x2Dh 63

Now at this point one of two things will happen: either your TiVo will just stop responding (in which case you need to reboot) or you'll have a perfect component picture (in which case smile and jump around a bit).

That's it! The next thing is to try to get around the iicset problems, either by modifying TiVo's module which sets up the chip (as has been done for the RGB issues) or by fixing iicset, and then to make it happen on startup. Any help with either of these things appreciated [edit] with iicsetw this issue seems to be resolved.

Do you have commands for reverting it back to RGB if required?

Mmm. It should be something like

/var/hack/iicset 0x8Ch 0x3AH 3
sleep 5
/var/hack/iicset 0x8Ch 0x2Dh 0

And what happens to 'pass through' signals, like when you press AUX or VCR on the Tivo remote? I assume these are passed through as RGB and hence won't work?

As noted in the edit at the top of the first post in the thread, yes, pass through (both RGB and PAL) signals don't work. This is a bit of a pain, if you click through to my original thread there's some talk about how it can be got around (for now) and how we might get composite video output from TiVo while still extracting the sync (using additional circuitry).

[mccg]

Keep trying - it's quite slow.

If it still fails, try clicking on the search Search link, and in the "Search by User Name" section enter "tivopony" as the user name. Click on Search, then click on the first thread found (should be "Red Trousers - TiVo Advanced Screening") and then in the URL change the thread id from "?t=271272" to "?t=230291", hit Go and wait... not sure why it worked for me, but it did.

Alternatively save yourself the hassle and get a SCART to Component converter if this is why you are interested in the above thread... I've got the one from J.S. Technology (http://www.js-technology.com/product_info.php?cPath=22&products_id=36&osCsid=420a2682ede407ed994764af80b41011) and thoroughly recommend it, but there are less pricey options from Keene (http://www.keene.co.uk/) and QED (http://www.stoneaudio.co.uk/).

I used a converter for a bit, but then went for the "component direct from Tivo".
Quality is slightly better (as would be expected), and one less power brick to find a socket for... and less tangle of cables.

[Milhouse]

Quality is slightly better (as would be expected)

Could it also depend on the quality of your RGB->Component converter? I'm more than happy with my Mode-0 TiVo outputting into a JS Tech converter running into an Onkyo 905 AV amp upscaling to 1080p on a 42" LCD (Phillips Aurea).

<rant>
In fact, picture quality is so good I still prefer to watch HD content recorded as SD on the TiVo rather than watch the same programmes in HD from my SkyHD box - I simply don't see such a massive quality improvement between TiVo SD and SkyHD HD (I'm 41 and my eyesight isn't too shabby).

Yes, there is some obvious picture quality improvement on the HD box (and I also prefer that the TiVo records from Sky1HD rather than regular Sky1 to obtain better quality SD) but the difference between them is certainly not enough to justify burdening myself with the clunky SkyHD UI.

My SkyHD box is a Thomson and the fast forward/review functionality is a complete fricking nightmare. :( My options are to either lose a little in picture quality and enjoy the excellent TiVo UI functionality or have a slightly better picture and a miserable viewing experience each time I press a button on the remote - given the choice it's the former almost every time for me! :)

I only use SkyHD for sport nowadays, and also to resolve clashes. I've come to the conclusion that HD is, in general, a tad over-rated and have started to wonder if I'm an isolated case as so many people seem to be trading in their TiVos for Sky+/SkyHD (two personal friends have done so recently) and I can't really see the point, apart from the dual-tuner capability (which I do admit is useful, but not as much as you might imagine with so many repeats).
</rant> :)

[mccg]

The quality of the converter would affect things (mine was definitely cheaper than the JS-Tech one) , but since this is conversion in the analogue domain, there will always be some quality loss.. though maybe only slight.

I use HD on my Foxsat HDR - it is miles better than TiVo output, or Freeview/Sky SD direct on my 42" Panasonic plasma (only 1024x768 too). I'm 41 too, and wear glasses.
Maybe there is something wrong with your HD setup...

But the biggest bonus for me is the audio - 5.1 sound is so good, and even Ac3 2.0 is much clearer than the usual (?mp2) sound, which is just full of artifacts.

[Milhouse]

I use HD on my Foxsat HDR - it is miles better than TiVo output, or Freeview/Sky SD direct on my 42" Panasonic plasma (only 1024x768 too). I'm 41 too, and wear glasses.
Maybe there is something wrong with your HD setup...


That's an entirely valid comment of course, and I have wondered much the same as the way everyone bangs on about HD I feel I shouldn't be happy with TiVo output, but I am... :)

Of course, the TiVo is blockier than HD, and there is some colour banding present in some scenes, and there's no 5.1 audio but the picture quality is still good enough (from normal viewing distance - about 12ft for me, and the upscaling amp may help too - mode 0 certainly helps) for me to continue with TiVo rather than switch over to SkyHD and endure their UI.

I'm not really sure why I went into my mini rant, other than to point out that a (modified) TiVo through a good quality component output (converter or internally hacked) can still provide a great image. At least IMHO. :)

(I'm also short-sighted, btw, and wear contacts/specs).

[mccg]

I don't really mean to continue banging on about this... sorry for taking this OT.

...but the picture quality is still good enough (from normal viewing distance - about 12ft for me...

I think that is the "issue".
On a 42" screen, you won't see any benefit from HD at 12ft (I am at about 7ft).
For HD you need to be much closer for a given screen size.

http://myhometheater.homestead.com/viewingdistancecalculator.html
says that you have to be as close as 5.5ft for HD (1080i/p) on a 42" screen.
14.6ft is optimal for SD, so you are getting close to that.